Networking question

[MadGamer]

Ok, the custom PC im having built wont have a modem in it. Now the PC that im using at the moment has an internal broadband modem. Do i need to buy a wireless router with a modem to make my custom built one acess the internet or do i just buy a normal wireless router and the internet is provided by the broadband internal modem on the one im using now?

Also what router, how easy are they to set up and can i use the files and Settings transfer wizard to transfer all my music? (1318 tracks 4.54GB)

[nffc]

Ok, the custom PC im having built wont have a modem in it. Now the PC that im using at the moment has an internal broadband modem. Do i need to buy a wireless router with a modem to make my custom built one acess the internet or do i just buy a normal wireless router and the internet is provided by the broadband internal modem on the one im using now?

Depends on the type of modem. If it connects directly to the net via an RJ11-phone lead not an RJ45 then you have two options:
- get an NIC in the PC if you don't already and use a crossover with ICS to connect the 2nd PC to the internet (you'll need the first PC on)
- preferred option get a wireless card for each PC and a combined router/modem, discard the internal modem and set up the connection to use the router making the 2 PCs clients- you don't need either switched on just the router.

Also what router, how easy are they to set up

Any of the Belkin, Linksys and Netgear range is fine. They take about 5 minutes to get working, longer to play with the settings. If you're opting for the wireless turn on the security. Also try and get external antennas for the cards not the ones that just screw in because the wiring down the back of the PC will weaken the signal. And if your PC/room is anything like mine it will look like Gravelly Hill anyway :D

can i use the files and Settings transfer wizard to transfer all my music? (1318 tracks 4.54GB)

Yes but it's easier to just share the folder over the LAN and copy it over manually. 4.5 GB at 54 Mb/s will still take a while though but that will be the same regardless of the method you take :P

[MadGamer]

Ok, the custom PC im having built wont have a modem in it. Now the PC that im using at the moment has an internal broadband modem. Do i need to buy a wireless router with a modem to make my custom built one acess the internet or do i just buy a normal wireless router and the internet is provided by the broadband internal modem on the one im using now?

Depends on the type of modem. If it connects directly to the net via an RJ11-phone lead not an RJ45 then you have two options:
- get an NIC in the PC if you don't already and use a crossover with ICS to connect the 2nd PC to the internet (you'll need the first PC on)
- preferred option get a wireless card for each PC and a combined router/modem, discard the internal modem and set up the connection to use the router making the 2 PCs clients- you don't need either switched on just the router.

Also what router, how easy are they to set up

Any of the Belkin, Linksys and Netgear range is fine. They take about 5 minutes to get working, longer to play with the settings. If you're opting for the wireless turn on the security. Also try and get external antennas for the cards not the ones that just screw in because the wiring down the back of the PC will weaken the signal. And if your PC/room is anything like mine it will look like Gravelly Hill anyway :D

can i use the files and Settings transfer wizard to transfer all my music? (1318 tracks 4.54GB)

Yes but it's easier to just share the folder over the LAN and copy it over manually. 4.5 GB at 54 Mb/s will still take a while though but that will be the same regardless of the method you take :P

The modem is a PCI internal. What about the Linksys WRT54G? Would Transmitters help the signal? If there is an online documentation or a guide to setting the secirty in the router, is there a link?

[paulyoung666]

why dont you just put the modem in the new pc :shrug:

[Paul K]

why dont you just put the modem in the new pc :shrug:
Might be a built in NIC not a modem knowing Wayne lol :p:

[paulyoung666]

Might be a built in NIC not a modem knowing Wayne lol :p:


:rofl: :rofl:

[dilli-theclaw]

As you are still on aoHELL, I suggest you keep/print off the info from this web site.

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/7066

[MadGamer]

why dont you just put the modem in the new pc :shrug:
Might be a built in NIC not a modem knowing Wayne lol :p: haha.... seriously, so i would have to buy a wireless router with a modem, otherwise if i dont i will have to have the current PC on all the time to access the Internet?

[nffc]

Ditch the modem... as for the Linksys or any other router check it's got a modem in- as if it doesn't, you'll need to buy a separate one. (Unlike people on ntl who have the opposite. (We have 1 Mb/s via SACM taken into the Belkin router and it's fine, I'd assume the analog with a modem included works well too)... in terms of specifics I can't remember off the top of my head whether that model does include a modem- check...

The signal will be fine as long as:
- the router is placed centrally to your PCs (ie not tucked away in the corner of the house
- the antenna on the PC is not buried in the wiring at the back and is relatively clear of metallic obstructions (so basically be careful if your PC looks like M6 Junction 6)
- nothing like large water tanks, in-wall metallic obstructions, microwave ovens or 2.4 GHz cordless phones are in the way
- make sure there's the minimum possible number of walls between the router and the PCs- if necessary draw a plan of the house and where you may wanna site your PCs and site the router accordingly
- if you can wall-mount then do so, higher is better (like TV aerials)
- if you can adjust the rotation of the aerials on the router then do so - and set it on mixed-polarisation which means your antenna will get as good a signal if it's oriented up-down or left-right :)
- better still try and get one with unscrewable aerials then you can get amplifiers, bigger aerials etc etc...

Anyway I'd be seriously going over old ground, there's several info threads on wireless and security etc (which could do with being written into articles :))

[MadGamer]

As you are still on aoHELL, I suggest you keep/print off the info from this web site.

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/7066 ahhh thats interseting because when the 12 months is up im moving back to demon. So i may have to play with the setup?

[Chris]

The modem is a PCI internal. What about the Linksys WRT54G? Would Transmitters help the signal? If there is an online documentation or a guide to setting the secirty in the router, is there a link?

Typing 'set up security linksys wrt54g' into a Google search bar produced this on the first page of results:

http://www.columbia.edu/acis/access/oncampus/wireless-security-2.html

Do you even try to find out such basic factual information for yourself before posting questions and expecting other people to do the work for you? :dozey:

[dilli-theclaw]

ahhh thats interseting because when the 12 months is up im moving back to demon. So i may have to play with the setup?

You may well have to yes.

[Millay]

I would personally attach the two computers together over a ethernet connection, 4,5gb is going to take a lifetime to transfer over a wirless connection..

[nffc]

4.5 GB over a 54 Mb/s connection:

4.5 GB = 4.5 x 1024 = 4608 MB = 4608 x 8 = 36864 Mb

time = size / speed = 36864 Mb / 54 Mb/s = 682.67 s (or about 11 mins 20 s)

[Millay]

4.5 GB over a 54 Mb/s connection:

4.5 GB = 4.5 x 1024 = 4608 MB = 4608 x 8 = 36864 Mb

time = size / speed = 36864 Mb / 54 Mb/s = 682.67 s (or about 11 mins 20 s)

I'll give you £20 if you can show me proof of a wirless netowrk transfering data at that speed :) :D

[MadGamer]

Just had another thought, would i have to buy a Wireless Acess Point Adapter?

[nffc]

4.5 GB over a 54 Mb/s connection:

4.5 GB = 4.5 x 1024 = 4608 MB = 4608 x 8 = 36864 Mb

time = size / speed = 36864 Mb / 54 Mb/s = 682.67 s (or about 11 mins 20 s)

I'll give you £20 if you can show me proof of a wirless netowrk transfering data at that speed :) :D

It's the theoretical maximum speed of a g WLAN obviously the actual speed will be different... :)
__________________

Just had another thought, would i have to buy a Wireless Acess Point Adapter?

All you need is a wireless modem/router plus a wireless network card for each PC (either PCI, PCMCIA or USB depending on what your requirements are :D)

[MadGamer]

4.5 GB over a 54 Mb/s connection:

4.5 GB = 4.5 x 1024 = 4608 MB = 4608 x 8 = 36864 Mb

time = size / speed = 36864 Mb / 54 Mb/s = 682.67 s (or about 11 mins 20 s)

I'll give you £20 if you can show me proof of a wirless netowrk transfering data at that speed :) :D

It's the theoretical maximum speed of a g WLAN obviously the actual speed will be different... :)
__________________

Just had another thought, would i have to buy a Wireless Acess Point Adapter?

All you need is a wireless modem/router plus a wireless network card for each PC (either PCI, PCMCIA or USB depending on what your requirements are :D) ok and obviously cat5 crossover cable which i can also get from PC World?

[nffc]

only if you wanna use 10/100 as well as the wireless... and patch rather than crossover if you're not connecting 2 PCs to each other...

[Dave Stones]

ok and obviously cat5 crossover cable which i can also get from PC World?

if you want to throw your money away. cable universe has them for abuot £1. fail to see why you would need a crossover anyway...

oh and whoever is dishing out crisp new £20 notes... at the moment i am encoding all my dvds to .iso, and then sending the .iso files to my external hard drive, connected to my laptop. the main pc is 100mbps network card, and laptop is 54mbps wireless. it takes almost dead on 15 minutes to transfer the 4.5gb file, so ner :p: can i have my £20? :D

[MadGamer]

Ok, so im connecting the 2 PC's i have got together and would just need the router and standard cable?
About the woreless network cards, do they have to be the same make an model in each machine? Would i also need a wireless access point?

[Dave Stones]

i use a linksys 54g router and a d-link laptop adapter

its a standard, anything will work

[Millay]

if you want to throw your money away. cable universe has them for abuot £1. fail to see why you would need a crossover anyway...

oh and whoever is dishing out crisp new £20 notes... at the moment i am encoding all my dvds to .iso, and then sending the .iso files to my external hard drive, connected to my laptop. the main pc is 100mbps network card, and laptop is 54mbps wireless. it takes almost dead on 15 minutes to transfer the 4.5gb file, so ner :p: can i have my £20? :D

Sorry Dave, but it has to be in 11 minutes.. 15 is just to slow... :D

[Dave Stones]

Sorry Dave, but it has to be in 11 minutes.. 15 is just to slow... :D

well that is under ideal situations.... mine is a real world test :p:

running through to an external hard drive from a secondary internal drive on a different computer will obviously cause some backlog ;)

[MovedGoalPosts]

OK, you are building a desktop PC to replace an existing desktop. Once you have transferred the data from the existing desktop are you going to keep the old one and still use it, or get rid of it.

Are there any other PCs in the house.

At the moment your desktop is directly connected, by wire, to the broadband phone point, and has an integral ADSL modem. Unless you are going to move the desktop around to other rooms that don't have a wired connection (and there is no practical way of running a wire), you don't need the added expense (and setup issues) of wireless. If you are only going to have one PC you don't need a router (although they can offer some security advantages, such as a hardware firewall).

If your old PC is only going to get occasional use, then it might be cheaper to connect that to the new one via Internet Connection Sharing (ICS), wired, than run to the expense of a router.

If you are going to regularly use two PCs then a router is the best way forward. You only need wireless though if there is no easy way of getting wires to the fixed desktop position. If you do need wireless then most wireless routers include the ability for up to 4 wired PC connections in addition to the wireless. More correctly these wireless routers are called "wireless access point routers".

If you get a router, for wired connection, all you will need is a standard ethernet network card (PCI) for your PC. If you want to use ICS then you need two network cards. Many modern motherboards will include at least one network card connection. Some motherboards include wireless adaptors too.

If you are going down the wireless route, you will need either a wireless adaptor card (or on board wireless adaptor) for the PC, or a network card attached to an external wireless Bridge. Be carefull with the termiology here as access pioints and bridges are different things.

I would not recommend you use a wireless device that relies on USB to connect to the PC. As many have said eleswhere, USB relies on the computer resources generally to operate, whereas dedicated hardware like a proper card is less depandant on the main CPU so there can be better performance. For the small extra cost of a dedicated card network or wireless network adaptor, it make sense to take tha option.

Whatever happens, unless you reuse your existing internal ADSL modem (and there is no reason why you should not, unless it is integrated to the PC), or buy an euivalent internal modem, you will need to get a standalone one or one that is integrated with a router. The router integrated, can be cheaper, and more convenient, but if there is any future possibility of your going cable, and ADSL router would be incompatible.

No disrespect intended, but I'm worried you are just jumping on a bandwagon or wireless and routers for the sake of it, rather than haveing any real need for either.

[MadGamer]

OK, you are building a desktop PC to replace an existing desktop. Once you have transferred the data from the existing desktop are you going to keep the old one and still use it, or get rid of it.

Are there any other PCs in the house.

At the moment your desktop is directly connected, by wire, to the broadband phone point, and has an integral ADSL modem. Unless you are going to move the desktop around to other rooms that don't have a wired connection (and there is no practical way of running a wire), you don't need the added expense (and setup issues) of wireless. If you are only going to have one PC you don't need a router (although they can offer some security advantages, such as a hardware firewall).

If your old PC is only going to get occasional use, then it might be cheaper to connect that to the new one via Internet Connection Sharing (ICS), wired, than run to the expense of a router.

If you are going to regularly use two PCs then a router is the best way forward. You only need wireless though if there is no easy way of getting wires to the fixed desktop position. If you do need wireless then most wireless routers include the ability for up to 4 wired PC connections in addition to the wireless. More correctly these wireless routers are called "wireless access point routers".

If you get a router, for wired connection, all you will need is a standard ethernet network card (PCI) for your PC. If you want to use ICS then you need two network cards. Many modern motherboards will include at least one network card connection. Some motherboards include wireless adaptors too.

If you are going down the wireless route, you will need either a wireless adaptor card (or on board wireless adaptor) for the PC, or a network card attached to an external wireless Bridge. Be carefull with the termiology here as access pioints and bridges are different things.

I would not recommend you use a wireless device that relies on USB to connect to the PC. As many have said eleswhere, USB relies on the computer resources generally to operate, whereas dedicated hardware like a proper card is less depandant on the main CPU so there can be better performance. For the small extra cost of a dedicated card network or wireless network adaptor, it make sense to take tha option.

Whatever happens, unless you reuse your existing internal ADSL modem (and there is no reason why you should not, unless it is integrated to the PC), or buy an euivalent internal modem, you will need to get a standalone one or one that is integrated with a router. The router integrated, can be cheaper, and more convenient, but if there is any future possibility of your going cable, and ADSL router would be incompatible.

No disrespect intended, but I'm worried you are just jumping on a bandwagon or wireless and routers for the sake of it, rather than haveing any real need for either. Let me explain. I have the current PC which i am using at the moment. I intend to keep this one, im having another built for my use so that my parents can use this one. I want to wirelessly connect them both as my PC is going to be upstairs in my room and the current one is staying in our study. Im on AOL BB at the moment which is being provided through an external ADSL modem (BT Voyager 105), however when i move back to Demon i have an internal PCI ADSL modem that i will be using. I want to know what is the best way to network these two PC's. I will use the router via ethernet, and do the wireless cards that are going to be in both PC's have to be the same make/model? Also the PC's will get used on a regular basis.

[paulyoung666]

Let me explain. I have the current PC which i am using at the moment. I intend to keep this one, im having another built for my use so that my parents can use this one. I want to wirelessly connect them both as my PC is going to be upstairs in my room and the current one is staying in our study. Im on AOL BB at the moment which is being provided through an external ADSL modem (BT Voyager 105), however when i move back to Demon i have an internal PCI ADSL modem that i will be using. I want to know what is the best way to network these two PC's. I will use the router via ethernet, and do the wireless cards that are going to be in both PC's have to be the same make/model? Also the PC's will get used on a regular basis.


at last some sense :rolleyes: , a wireless router at your machine and either an ethernet connection to your machine and a wireless card in the other or two wirless cards , simple really , i suspect the cards dont need to be the same make , although i have read that better results are obtained from getting matched kit :)

[MadGamer]

Let me explain. I have the current PC which i am using at the moment. I intend to keep this one, im having another built for my use so that my parents can use this one. I want to wirelessly connect them both as my PC is going to be upstairs in my room and the current one is staying in our study. Im on AOL BB at the moment which is being provided through an external ADSL modem (BT Voyager 105), however when i move back to Demon i have an internal PCI ADSL modem that i will be using. I want to know what is the best way to network these two PC's. I will use the router via ethernet, and do the wireless cards that are going to be in both PC's have to be the same make/model? Also the PC's will get used on a regular basis.


at last some sense :rolleyes: , a wireless router at your machine and either an ethernet connection to your machine and a wireless card in the other or two wirless cards , simple really , i suspect the cards dont need to be the same make , although i have read that better results are obtained from getting matched kit :) Let me see if i understand you:

My PC
Wireless Router >>>> ethernet cable into wireless network card >>> another cable from router leading downstairs into second wireless card in 2nd PC?

[Dave Stones]

Let me see if i understand you:

My PC
Wireless Router >>>> ethernet cable into wireless network card >>> another cable from router leading downstairs into second wireless card in 2nd PC?

:dozey: the idea of a wireless network card is that it is wireless, hence it doesn't have wires going to it

[MadGamer]

Let me see if i understand you:

My PC
Wireless Router >>>> ethernet cable into wireless network card >>> another cable from router leading downstairs into second wireless card in 2nd PC?

:dozey: the idea of a wireless network card is that it is wireless, hence it doesn't have wires going to it I dont understand. Could someone put it in simple steps in the correct way like i have so that i understand?

[Paul K]

My PC
Wireless Router >>>> ethernet cable into wireless network card >>> another cable from router leading downstairs into second wireless card in 2nd PC?
Wayne as pointed out you are buying a wireless router and using wireless cards in the PCs, you would only need to use a cable to connect anything to the router if you needed to troubleshoot the connection. Other than that I would stay wireless if I were you ;)
__________________


I dont understand. Could someone put it in simple steps in the correct way like i have so that i understand?
Erm let me see
Your connection will plug into the wireless router. The wireless router will then transmit the data to the wireless cards which are in your PC. Your PC will take that data and give some form of graphical representation of it on your display.
The wireless networking equipment does not require cables connecting it all together ;)

[MovedGoalPosts]

Right, now I'm clear on what you are intending.

1) Ignore, scrap, sell, whatever the internal PCI ADSL modem. You willl not need it again.

2) For your existing PC, make sure it has a standard ethernet network card. If it doesn't simple ones cost around £10.00

3) Buy yourself a wireless router.
This wireless router can be with or without an integral ADSL modem. If it has a modem integral you will not need your BT modem. If you do not have an integral modem you will need the BT modem. I do not know if the BT modem uses an ethernet or USB connection. If it is USB it will probably not be compatible with a wireless router so in which case you should get a combined wireless router with ADSL modem.

4) Buy a wireless network adaptor card for your new PC.

5) The wiring setup will now be:
Wall socket of incoming ADSL connection > modem cable > ADSL modem
ADSL modem > ethernet cable > wireless router
(if you have a combined wireless router modem then it will be wall socket > modem cable > router)
wireless router > ethernet cable > original PC network card
wireless router > no wires needed > new PC wireless network adaptor.

This setup has the advantage both PCs can now operate independently of each other, but you can transfer data (slowly) between them. Both PCs can be switched on and off independently of each other.

Since the original PC is located in the study, where you are already happy to have a wired setup there is no point in giving it the added expense of wireless. There is also nothing to be gained by switching back to your internal ADSL modem, when you give up AOL. Your BT modem should work quite adequately on any ADSL service, unless it is limited in some way on it's maximum speed service. You 'd just need to reprogram it, when the time comes, for the new ADSL supplier's logon.

[Chris]

Wayne, the more I read your posts, the more convinced I am that you are a chatbot rather than a real person ... ;)

[MadGamer]

I have another question: My current PC that im using now has Windows XP Home SP2. The PC im having built will have Windows XP Professional on it. Now when i network these will the PC's be able to see each other on the network?

Also after i have moved my acount from the current PC to my new one, im gonna format the current PC im using now. What network settings should i note down?

[Raistlin]

I have another question: My current PC that im using now has Windows XP Home SP2. The PC im having built will have Windows XP Professional on it. Now when i network these will the PC's be able to see each other on the network?

Also after i have moved my acount from the current PC to my new one, im gonna format the current PC im using now. What network settings should i note down?

Yes, they will be able to see eachother.

My network of XP and 2k3 Server runs just fine.

The network should be fairly easy to set up, not much in the way of network settings really.

Just make a note of any fixed IP addresses you've used, and what the Workgroup / Domain name is that you've used.
__________________

I'm sure someone will come up with something else though ;)

[Dave Stones]

please don't introduce the idea of fixed IPs....assuming he will be using a router, just leave him be with dynamic addressing, will make life much easier ;)

they will be able to see each other assuming they have the same workgroup...

oh and raistlin, i'm keeping my eye on you.... i don't like the looks of my walls anymore :disturbd:

[nffc]

I have another question: My current PC that im using now has Windows XP Home SP2. The PC im having built will have Windows XP Professional on it. Now when i network these will the PC's be able to see each other on the network?

Also after i have moved my acount from the current PC to my new one, im gonna format the current PC im using now. What network settings should i note down?

www.google.co.uk

[Raistlin]

please don't introduce the idea of fixed IPs....assuming he will be using a router, just leave him be with dynamic addressing, will make life much easier ;)

Good point, well made :)

they will be able to see each other assuming they have the same workgroup...

Yep

oh and raistlin, i'm keeping my eye on you.... i don't like the looks of my walls anymore :disturbd:

I know you're keeping your eye on me Dave, don't worry - they've seen you doing it..... Oh, and it's not the walls you want to worry about ;)

[MadGamer]

I have another question: My current PC that im using now has Windows XP Home SP2. The PC im having built will have Windows XP Professional on it. Now when i network these will the PC's be able to see each other on the network?

Also after i have moved my acount from the current PC to my new one, im gonna format the current PC im using now. What network settings should i note down?

Yes, they will be able to see eachother.

My network of XP and 2k3 Server runs just fine.

The network should be fairly easy to set up, not much in the way of network settings really.

Just make a note of any fixed IP addresses you've used, and what the Workgroup / Domain name is that you've used.
__________________

I'm sure someone will come up with something else though ;)You mentioned Domains and workgroups, would this be nessecery, could you please give me a little more info?

EDIT: It think i understand the IP part now, would that be the MAC Addresses of both PC's?

[Raistlin]

Ok, ignore Domain - red herring for what you're doing.

On your desktop right click on the My Computer icon.

Select properties.

Select Computer Name.

Towards the middle of the information is a line that says "Workgroup", this should be the same for both machines once they're set up.
__________________

EDIT: It think i understand the IP part now, would that be the MAC Addresses of both PC's?

Nope. Ignore that bit.

If you're installing a router you don't need to worry about that, it will give each machine an IP address - nothing you need to worry about honest.

I think I was over complicating things a bit because of the way my machine is set up.

[Dave Stones]

You mentioned Domains and workgroups, would this be nessecery, could you please give me a little more info?

EDIT: It think i understand the IP part now, would that be the MAC Addresses of both PC's?

windows xp home does not work with domains.

workgroups are an essential part, you get asked in windows initial setup what workgroup you want to choose, unless they are the same then the pcs wont be able to comminucate as easily as they should/could.

IPs and MACs are completely separate... IP = internet protocol, MAC = machine allocation code.

[Raistlin]

Mac is also a long grey coat that Spies and Government Agents wear ;)

[MadGamer]

Ok, ignore Domain - red herring for what you're doing.

On your desktop right click on the My Computer icon.

Select properties.

Select Computer Name.

Towards the middle of the information is a line that says "Workgroup", this should be the same for both machines once they're set up.
__________________

EDIT: It think i understand the IP part now, would that be the MAC Addresses of both PC's?

Nope. Ignore that bit.

If you're installing a router you don't need to worry about that, it will give each machine an IP address - nothing you need to worry about honest.

I think I was over complicating things a bit because of the way my machine is set up. Is this what you mean?

[Raistlin]

Yep.

Your workgroup is called "WORKGROUP".

Both machines need to have the same workgroup name for them to be able to network.

[Dave Stones]

Mac is also a long grey coat that Spies and Government Agents wear ;)

shutupshutupshutup!!! my bed is a divan though, so at least no one can hide under it :)

don't like the noises coming from the loft though :erm:

oh, wayne... yes. click the "change" button, and all your options will be presented like a magic carpet...

[nffc]

Mac is also a long grey coat that Spies and Government Agents wear ;)
And a sh** computer...

[ian@huth]

IPs and MACs are completely separate... IP = internet protocol, MAC = machine allocation code.MAC - Media Access Control.