View Full Version : Here we go again...!!!
RUSS: As this thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere, does anyone have objections to me closing it? If not I'll lock it down 4.55pm.
Well, actually, *yes* I have objections to you closing that thread, but since I've been busy working today and it's now 17:37 I didn't get the chance to say anything!
Russ, *WHY* do you have this desperate urge to close down threads? If it was "going nowhere" people wouldn't post in it, it would slowly die off and disappear off the list of current messages and everything would be fine.
From what I understand, threads are supposed to be closed if 1) the original poster asks for it, 2) an (impartial) moderator decides the thread has drifted too far off topic or 3) an (again, impartial!) moderator decides that the thread is getting too heated/ abusive.
Instead, however, you seem to want to slam the door on anyone talking about things that you find uncomfortable and I think, as others have also said, that this is an abuse of your powers.
QUOTE TOWNY: Graham, I think the fact that you felt it necessary to start a whole new thread just so you could make your point (again) proves this quite nicely.
I did not "start a whole new thread so I could make my point again", I started it to address the ridiculous and untrue assertions that Russ was making, accusing me of trying to "impose my view on him", yet completely failing to acknowledge the hypocrisy of his position.
If he is going to make public comments like that, I am going to exercise my right of reply to defend myself *in public*.
QUOTE DELLWEAR: If this isn't trolling Graham I don't know what is
It's clear, then, that you don't know what trolling is.
QUOTE RUSS: I even recieved 5 PMs from people asking why I put up with you
Why does that sound like "The Lurkers support me in e-mail"?!
If someone has a problem with what I say, they can either say it *TO* me or shut up. Anything else is sheer childishness.
QUOTE RUSS: I PM'd another mod to ask him to intervene but for whatever reason he didn't get it until last night.
Then *why* didn't you wait? What was *so* terrible that the thread had to be closed immediately?
QUOTE RUSS: Numerous people have commented that you appear not interested in a rational debate, instead preferring to rubbish my views and disallow me to have beliefs which differ from yours.
Ah, "numerous", a wonderfully non-specific term. Unfortunately I've noticed that there are "numerous" people here who are also apparently "not interested in rational debate" and when I *DO* try to debate their arguments and points, seem to get rather upset about it!
QUOTE RUSS: Graham, sir, leave me have my beliefs as I allow you to have yours.
Russ, I have said, publicly on "numerous"(!) occasions that you and anyone else are entirely *welcome* to have your beliefs. However, as I pointed out before, and will point out again, if *you* start discussing them in public, you should *not* be surprised if others decide they want to question them! To do otherwise is simply naiive.
Now, since I'm the starter of this thread, should I demand that a moderator close it so nobody can answer the points above and I get the last word...?!
Atomic22
01-10-2003, 18:19
i think people are looking too deeply into some of the discussions and seeing things that are not really there...lots of stuff is written tongue in cheek and lots of stuff written is what people steadfastly believe in...i was under the impression that we had freedom of speech on this forum....that includes russ having his say on athiests and also athiests having their say...everyone is entitled to their own opinion and no one is forced to contribute to discussions if they do not wish to...if the thread is being posted to and on topic it is obviously running so unless its breaking any rules the mods have no right to shut it down and "having a bad day" is no excuse..all they will end up doing is sending us all back to .com...i am by no means having a pop at russ because of his beliefs because i share more of those than i do of grahams beliefs...but i believe everyone has a right to their say and everyone else has a right to argue.
well thats my two pennorth anyways
downquark1
01-10-2003, 18:45
I need reasurrance/closure here, did I say a terrible thing? Is this all my fault?
I need reasurrance/closure here, did I say a terrible thing? Is this all my fault?
http://www.masterlymayhem.com/page/page2/277.gif
There there downquark, its not your fault :)
Graham - can you show me which discussion on the subject I started?
No, what I do is answer people's questions on the subject. If I start a thread making a statement based on my faith then yes anyone would be welcome to agree with me, attack my views etc.
Because I agree you (generically speaking) are entitled to believe in anything you want, I avoid setting up such threads, instead preferring to reply to other people's opinions. Often others will ask me questions based on how my faith sees certain subjects. What often happens (and has done so a LOT in the last few days) is people will jump on my replies and attack my views which of course is inappropriate, seeing as all I am doing is responding to someone, not instigating the subject.
If you think I've abused my position then I apologise, but I don't know you well enough to know you (or anyone else in particular) works full-time and will not be on at a certain time etc.
Graham, I can only say that it is not Dellwear that misunderstands the term 'troll', it is you. I have never before come across a forum member who felt the need to open two new threads just to try to get the last word on a subject. Maybe I've just not been using fora long enough to have witnessed such behaviour but it certainly isn't the way most people do things around here.
You've had your come-back now; d'you think you can just leave it alone?
Graham - can you show me which discussion on the subject I started?
No, what I do is answer people's questions on the subject. If I start a thread making a statement based on my faith then yes anyone would be welcome to agree with me, attack my views etc.
Russ: Whether you start a thread or not is utterly irrelevant!
If someone starts at thread about a controversial subject and I respond "I think we should string them all up by their naughty bits and split their nostrils open with a boat hook" should I *NOT* expect other people to want to take issue with my views even though I did not "start the thread"???
If this is what you think, then you have an amazingly different idea of what constitutes a discussion thread than any other chat echo, discussion forum or newsgroup that I've ever used!!
If you think I've abused my position then I apologise, but I don't know you well enough to know you (or anyone else in particular) works full-time and will not be on at a certain time etc.
So, I ask again, *why* the rush to close a thread? If you were asking another moderator for their opinion, would it *really* have hurt to wait until they replied? Would leaving it open one extra day cause the entire fabric of these groups to collapse?
And, frankly, yes, I *do* consider a moderator who is participating in a thread should not be allowed to close that thread because it does look very much like an abuse of power.
May I suggest that the next time you feel inclined to do this you ask another moderator (who does not have a "vested interest" in the subject) and then *wait* for their decision and let *them* close the thread.
Graham, I can only say that it is not Dellwear that misunderstands the term 'troll', it is you. I have never before come across a forum member who felt the need to open two new threads just to try to get the last word on a subject.
Towny, if you think that I'm writing these messages simply out of some childish desire to "get the last word in" then I can only say that you have failed to comprehend what is going on!
If someone mis-represents my arguments or makes false accusations, I will exercise my "right of reply" to correct matters.
I started the first thread because Russ, having attacked me in a hypocritical manner, decided to close the original discussion seemingly in a fit of pique (or because he was "having a bad time") when he mis-understood downquark1's humour.
I started the second thread because I found that Russ had already *closed* the first thread before I had a chance to respond to the comments in there!!
Now if someone closes a discussion thread to stop others from responding, who do you think is actually "trying to get the last word"?
QUOTE: Maybe I've just not been using fora long enough to have witnessed such behaviour but it certainly isn't the way most people do things around here.
Towny: I've been using discussion fora, chat rooms, news groups for over a decade now and pardon me if I say that you display a charming innocence over the nature of "trolling" if you think that exercising the right of reply fits into that category!
For instance, quoting from http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html
"troll v.,n. To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies"; which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling";, a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.
The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll."
Now I am *not* posting inflammatory messages simply for the purpose of winding others up, starting controversial arguments and then stepping back and watching the fun. In fact I often use techniques of "anti-trolling" to "short circuit" the real trolls out there whose only aim is to cause trouble and disruption and not engage in real debate at all.
QUOTE: You've had your come-back now; d'you think you can just leave it alone?
Towny: A word of advice: *DON'T* say things like this or claim that someone is trying to "get the last word" if you want an argument to die down, because all you're actually doing is making an inflammatory comment, (un)subtly insulting someone by implying that they're being childish and is liable to make them want to respond to that comment. (This, by the way, is considered a form of trolling...!!)
downquark1
02-10-2003, 13:03
Can't we just drop the subject for now - it's bound to be brought up again, they usually do.
I don't propose that we close the thread, just don't post in it and let it die naturally.
Graham - for some reason you simply will not back down, and as sure as hell I certainly won't, so I suggest we do as Downquark1 says and drop the matter.
All those in favour say "I" :)
Graham - for some reason you simply will not back down, and as sure as hell I certainly won't, so I suggest we do as Downquark1 says and drop the matter.
All those in favour say "I" :)
lol, 'I'
'I'.
Russ, he's trying to psyche you out of closing this thread. Don't play his trollish games. Just close the thread, and delete any more that spring up. I think the rest of us have had more than enough ...
'I'.
Russ, he's trying to psyche you out of closing this thread. Don't play his trollish games. Just close the thread, and delete any more that spring up. I think the rest of us have had more than enough ...
I don't agree, cos that will hack him off even more. Leave the thread open as he hasn't requested closure - Just ignore it
I thought that when a thread was closed we weren't supposed to open up another one just to continue the subject?
:headscratch:
Incog. :)
I thought that when a thread was closed we weren't supposed to open up another one just to continue the subject?
:headscratch:
Incog. :)
Quite Right - This really should of been dealt with via PM, Not openly :) But as it has, I think those involved should take a step back.. Not take it to heart, and forget about it ! :) I myself dont really see the need for this thread to continue, as whats been discussed seems to have been some what resolved.. So any further posts on the matter will only provoke people. But we'l leave it open, and let it die naturally :dunce:
Graham - for some reason you simply will not back down,
Sorry, Russ, but again you make incorrect assumptions and again you make incorrect claims and again you're wrong.
I have covered the points I wished to raise. I have explained my position and pointed out why you were wrong in what you did and what you claimed (which is not the same as starting a new thread to continue the subject, because I didn't do that!)
Whilst I still take exception to Towny's accusations of being a troll which, I think are based on misunderstanding and inexperience, they aren't worth worrying about or writing about further.
QUOTE: and as sure as hell I certainly won't,
That is your choice. The only person who can do anything about it is you.
QUOTE: so I suggest we do as Downquark1 says and drop the matter.
Well, actually I (being the starter of this thread) am now going to suggest that a Moderator (but *NOT* Russ, since he's been a participant) *CLOSE* this thread!
as the thread starter has asked for this to be closed, it shall :)
Ok guys,
I feel both Graham and Russ and whoever else, has got there points across, and seeing as Graham has requested, and I originally intervened above then the thread is going to be closed. Let the subject rest now :)
Thread Closed.
Beaten to it :Peace: :D
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