View Full Version : Martial Arts
Richard M
30-06-2005, 00:06
Background:
I want to find a martial art which keeps me ultra-fit that I can do for a few hours per week during the summer.
As a teenager I practised Ninjitsu which is essentially Karate but with more weapons.
What I want:
I'm fairly interested in Kung Fu but I want something which will give me the most thorough work-out but at the same time trains me with real weapon skills.
I've considered going back to Ninjitsu but it wasn't all that energetic, and I'd prefer using my whole body to fight rather than just my upper body.
At the same time, I'd place fitness above weapon skills mainly because it's not every day that you can take a Samurai Sword out in the street. :erm:
Any ideas?
greencreeper
30-06-2005, 00:14
Any ideas?
See someone professional to help you understand the origins of your violent impulses :D
Seriously, what is it with men and violence? Can't you do something like speed orienteering instead - exercise mind and body?
jujitsu (sp?)
I did it for a while... utterly knackering, more defense based though, so it has no weapons stuff but very practical techniques for real life.
Richard M
30-06-2005, 00:22
jujitsu
Kinda, it has both Japanese and English spellings.
There was a lot of defence involved and I'd prefer to try something more aggressive this time.
If you want a good workout and hard training then try Shotokan Karate in a KUGB (http://www.kugb.org/) club.
I sustained several broken bones over the years with this bunch (but I'm cr*p) :D
The only bunch tougher (imo) are the BKK Kyokushinkai Karate lot. :disturbd:
Bear in mind that the martial art itself is unlikely to get you fit - it's the aerobic excersise which does that. Judging by your build I'd say Kung Fu would be your better option - it relies on fast strikes to soft, vunerable targets as opposed to, say karate which tends to be more strength-based.
Try Ikedo.. That will keep you fit
grandmaster
30-06-2005, 11:13
ju-jitsu is the way forward.
I'm always tired after a session of ju-jitsu.
Punches and kicks
Locks and Throws
Plus after blackbelt weapons training.
What more does a man need
STONEISLAND
30-06-2005, 11:19
jujitsu (sp?)
I did it for a while... utterly knackering, more defense based though, so it has no weapons stuff but very practical techniques for real life.
Is that what a lot of the fighters of UFC do jujitsu?
There arent many places where you can learn that are there?
What more does a man needA combat shotgun? :D
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Is that what a lot of the fighters of UFC do jujitsu?
There arent many places where you can learn that are there?Ah....there is a slight difference between jujitsu as done by the japanese and brazilian jujitsu :disturbd:
STONEISLAND
30-06-2005, 11:22
A combat shotgun? :D
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Ah....there is a slight difference between jujitsu as done by the japanese and brazilian jujitsu :disturbd:
So which is the UFC jujitsu? Brazil?
grandmaster
30-06-2005, 11:29
i think that is a part of it.
Gracie ju-jitsu is the brazilian style.
I did'nt like the look of it to be fair.
So which is the UFC jujitsu? Brazil?I think so.
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Gracie ju-jitsu is the brazilian style.
I did'nt like the look of it to be fair.But you can't deny that it's effective :D
STONEISLAND
30-06-2005, 11:33
I think so.
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But you can't deny that it's effective :D
It seems all the top UFC fighter are experts in that combat.
its hard to find a place in UK to learn jujitsu
It seems all the top UFC fighter are experts in that combat.
its hard to find a place in UK to learn jujitsuI used to know someone who had a 2 hour drive to his classes, so yes, good gracie jujitsu classes must be few and far between :disturbd:
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I have heard good things about Small circle jujitsu (http://www.smallcirclejujitsu.co.uk/)......
no matter what martial art style you go for, you will mainly train in weapons when you reach a certain level, not straight away.
I do kung fu, and I love it, it can be fast/slow/strong/hard it depends on what you are doing.
fitness comes with your training, but not all martial arts are as tough as others, and it is only what you make of it.
ju jitsu is good, so is aikido, but they are totally different, as is kung fu and karate. you must try a few to see if you like them.
good luck in your choice.
ik
grandmaster
30-06-2005, 17:29
I train with the WJJF* and have just passed my assistant coach award.....go me,
I have also practiced Karate but i think this is much better..
----
*world Jujitsu Federation.
www.wjjf.co.uk
Kempo / Kenpo karate, i studied for a while, very good all round martial arts with weapons training as well, thinking of going back soon to do what I started out, black belt by 40, fell a couple of grades short to soon, never mind, I will do it, soon, I can recommend it though, so can my kids ;)
Tezcatlipoca
30-06-2005, 22:45
Rich, try one of the types of kung fu! :D
I started doing WingTsun kung fu in March.
Absolutely loving it.
Great exercise, great fun, & lots of useful skills.
There is some weapons training, but not until the 3rd year at my club.
Have a read of my thread: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=23414
Various bits were discussed there which you might find interesting (about WT, & also other martial arts)
if i upset my wife she uses who flung dung
Rich, try one of the types of kung fu! :D
I started doing WingTsun kung fu in March.
Absolutely loving it.
Great exercise, great fun, & lots of useful skills.
There is some weapons training, but not until the 3rd year at my club.
Have a read of my thread: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=23414
Various bits were discussed there which you might find interesting (about WT, & also other martial arts)
that thread should answer your questions about martial arts.
ik
makikomi
02-07-2005, 02:02
It seems all the top UFC fighter are experts in that combat.
its hard to find a place in UK to learn jujitsu
Most of the top fighters in UFC cross train in a variety of martial arts. It's all very well being able to do lots of high kicks, but if you've been wrestled to the ground by your opponent, those kicks won't help. I've seen loads of powerful fighters beaten by guys who know their armlocks and strangles.
Jujitsu features punches, kicks and locks, etc but I've found that in general, judo people seem to know the locks and chokes much more intimately and to a higher technical level. This is based on personal experience from practicing with Juitsu people who've visited our club.
I've recently re-started judo after 18 months away from it and am getting the bugs again. :) I started doing judo 25 years ago!
allieyoung666
02-07-2005, 07:26
I used to do kick boxing and I did right up until the birth of my 2nd child. It is a great form of cardio exercise, plus I think it teaches you to be multi skilled and you seem to feel the benefit striaght away, I did Judo when I was a teen but I felt as if it was one of the more softer martial arts.
makikomi
03-07-2005, 10:31
I did Judo when I was a teen but I felt as if it was one of the more softer martial arts.
In some ways it is a soft martial art. The very name translated as the "Gentle Way". This could be perceived as a misnomer - it features, throws, holds, chokes, strangles and armlocks - but refers to the use of the opponent's weight, strength and momentum against them.
What has always appealed to me about Judo is that you KNOW it works. You can actually perform all the techniques full-bloodedly on an opponent and know that what the technique is supposed to do will actually work.
Judo is also harder to pick up than some of the striking martial arts, and not so easy to use in an aggresive way. Dr Jigaro Kano devised Judo in the 1880s (I think) because he studied Jujitsu, and didn't like the way it seemed to turn people into thugs. He was also aware of the injury risks of Jujitsu, not just to the person the techniques were performed on, but also the performer of the techniques.
In addition, I find Judo far more of a mental challenge than the striking martial arts. It is more 3-D than most striking arts, you need to adopt very different techniques depending on the size, style, weight and strength of the opponent, and the practice isn't as monotonous.
At the end of the day, each to their own. I've done Judo since I was 10, and while I've dabbled in other martial arts, Judo is the only one for me.
The only drawback that I've found with judo is although it's the business if you end up on the floor with an opponent, if he's got mates with him they're all likely to stick the boot in while you're trying to tie him up in knots.
makikomi
03-07-2005, 10:58
The only drawback that I've found with judo is although it's the business if you end up on the floor with an opponent, if he's got mates with him they're all likely to stick the boot in while you're trying to tie him up in knots.
Well then you'd avoid getting on the floor with the opponent in the first place.
If you're doing judo correctly, unless the technique specifically callls for it, you should keep your balance while throwing the other guy. Add to that the fact that most people don't know how to fall properly, so would either knock their heads on the ground/floor when they fall, or otherwise hurt themselves (dislocations/broken bones/sprains) when they try to stop themselves getting hurt.
Well then you'd avoid getting on the floor with the opponent in the first place.
But that's not always the case. The floor may be wet, if it's near a pub or club there could be bottles to slip on etc.
I agree that when it comes to groundwork and throws etc then judo is one of the most effective styles but it clearly has its flaws IMO
makikomi
03-07-2005, 11:28
But that's not always the case. The floor may be wet, if it's near a pub or club there could be bottles to slip on etc.
I agree that when it comes to groundwork and throws etc then judo is one of the most effective styles but it clearly has its flaws IMO
I'm not denying that judo has it's flaws. But every martial art does.
To be honest, I think I'd be astute enough to avoid getting in a fight in the first place. Body language, common sense, observation and a few simple initial responses would stop a fight happening in most circumstances.
And as I've said before, if you want to learn how to stop yourself being beaten up in a fight, learn SELF DEFENCE. If someone tried whacking me round the head with a bottle, I wouldn't try and perform a neat Ippon Seoinage - I'd block and ram the heel of my hand into their nose, and follow up with a knee to their crotch. :D
True, I'd use judo, but only where appropriate.
Now if you wanna fight about this Russ, I'll be outside....
...but give me a few secs to make sure the floor's not slippery, ok? :disturbd:
A knee to the crotch ain't gonna do much if they're fat - there's more of a chance you'll catch their belly or flabby thighs - honestly, I saw this happen once :disturbd:
And make sure there aren't any bottle lying around either :D
A knee to the crotch ain't gonna do much if they're fat - there's more of a chance you'll catch their belly or flabby thighs - honestly, I saw this happen once :disturbd:
And make sure there aren't any bottle lying around either :D
then you are getting into the striking arts then, I would recommend Wing Chun, in this instance then. I have never done it but it is very close combat style.
My style is Lau Gar, which is a middle to close range fighting. both chinese martial arts.
Tae Kwon Do is a kicking art, which looks good and can be effective, but when kicking you have lost your centre of ballance, and it is easy to put this practitioner on teh floor.
karate is strong so you can achieve very strong kicks, punches, blocks etc, and good take downs/sweeps. but it is too strong, a lot of energy is used to stay strong.
Aikido, is nice and fluidic. beautiful throws, locks, take downs, and is effertless, when you get good at it. you are using the opponents energy to perform the moves, like using their yin for your yang.
Wing Chun is a very close fighting style, it works on the theory of centre lines. if you control the centre line, then you control the fight. it is fast but soft. kicks rarely come above waist, as there is no point in doing so, the higher the kick the more off balance you are. so most kicks are to the knee.
Lau Gar is a very effective style (I am being biased here) you are taught close combat and middle combat. middle combat is where I would like to keep the fight. there is a comprehensive knife defence which is good fun, and could work in the street, but you would have to just use what you know.
ju jitsu is a striking art as well, but also goes to ground, where some arts fail. some arts say if your on the ground you have lost, so you shouldn't go to ground, but this one is saying this is where the fight is going to end up. good locks, grapples and stuff.
judo, is trying to take the fight to ground, but in my experience of judo, is that the a fight would have to be close. to be able to throw/trip your opponent.
Savate is a french martial art that is mainly like kartae/chinese martial arts. more like kick boxing.
this is just a small round up of some martial arts. for some others try here (http://www.chinesekungfu.4t.com/styles.html).
ik
Tezcatlipoca
03-07-2005, 14:21
Lau Gar is a very effective style (I am being biased here) you are taught close combat and middle combat. middle combat is where I would like to keep the fight. there is a comprehensive knife defence which is good fun, and could work in the street, but you would have to just use what you know.
We've done some knife defence in WingTsun recently. Quite fun :)
then you are getting into the striking arts then, I would recommend Wing Chun, in this instance then. I have never done it but it is very close combat style.
My style is Lau Gar, which is a middle to close range fighting. both chinese martial arts.
The style I used to do, Hong Lung Do has connections with Lau Gar :)
Tae Kwon Do is a kicking art, which looks good and can be effective, but when kicking you have lost your centre of ballance, and it is easy to put this practitioner on teh floor.
Agreed - and no matter got fast someone can kick, a punch will be inevitably be quicker and usually easier.
karate is strong so you can achieve very strong kicks, punches, blocks etc, and good take downs/sweeps. but it is too strong, a lot of energy is used to stay strong.
The styles I used to watch seemed to be too rigid and regimental - but fine if you like that sort of thing I guess :shrug:
Aikido, is nice and fluidic. beautiful throws, locks, take downs, and is effertless, when you get good at it. you are using the opponents energy to perform the moves, like using their yin for your yang.
Yeah, we used a bit of Chi-Akido, it was very effective IMO.
Wing Chun is a very close fighting style, it works on the theory of centre lines. if you control the centre line, then you control the fight. it is fast but soft. kicks rarely come above waist, as there is no point in doing so, the higher the kick the more off balance you are. so most kicks are to the knee.
Wing Chun has always been a favourite however the only thing I didn't like was we tended to be very 'face-on' with our opponent, thereby creating more of a target area for him/her.
Lau Gar is a very effective style (I am being biased here) you are taught close combat and middle combat. middle combat is where I would like to keep the fight. there is a comprehensive knife defence which is good fun, and could work in the street, but you would have to just use what you know.
I'd be biased too - Lau Gar was great.
ju jitsu is a striking art as well, but also goes to ground, where some arts fail. some arts say if your on the ground you have lost, so you shouldn't go to ground, but this one is saying this is where the fight is going to end up. good locks, grapples and stuff.
It's a very good style - some say it's difficult to get in to? I don't know.
makikomi
03-07-2005, 17:54
A knee to the crotch ain't gonna do much if they're fat - there's more of a chance you'll catch their belly or flabby thighs - honestly, I saw this happen once :disturbd:
True Russ, but this goes back to something else I've mentioned before... you adapt technique to suit the situation and the opponent.
True Russ, but this goes back to something else I've mentioned before... you adapt technique to suit the situation and the opponent.
Yeah, so a knee to the nuts obviously should never really be relied upon, there are plenty more available targets on people.
Raistlin
03-07-2005, 18:26
One swift knee in the happy sacks and he'll go down like everybody else.....
That's assuming you hit the target!
<snip>
Wing Chun has always been a favourite however the only thing I didn't like was we tended to be very 'face-on' with our opponent, thereby creating more of a target area for him/her.
<snip>
but this means that you or your opponent can hold the centre line, if this is not in your favour, then slightly move to the side where you create your own better centre line. think about it, no fight is like a fencing contest, it is not on one line, you creat a new line, therefore you will hold the advantage. this is the best thing about wing chun.
ik
but this means that you or your opponent can hold the centre line, if this is not in your favour, then slightly move to the side where you create your own better centre line. think about it, no fight is like a fencing contest, it is not on one line, you creat a new line, therefore you will hold the advantage. this is the best thing about wing chun.
ik
I'm only referring to the style I looked in to though, I'm sure there are variations. Saying that though, I'd prefer to present as small a target as possible to my opponent and this didn't seem in tune with what my local club were offering.
as long as your blocks are tight, then no need to be side on.
plus wing chun's brilliant parry's are fabulous, with great speed you parry sometimes 2-3 times the same arm then strike.
ik
attacker on right, defender on left. defender uses left hand to parry punch to right hand side, right hand keeps punch away from body, while punching centre line. I hope the garbage picture helped what I am trying to say?
as long as your blocks are tight, then no need to be side on.
Yeah but surely you're making work for yourself? Reminds me of when I chatted to a kickboxer a few years back, he told me "Kickboxing teaches you to take a punch", my reply was "Kung Fu teaches you to block them" :D
He had a point. You can't block everything. If you are in a fight, unless you are lucky, you will get hit. You need to learn what being hit feels like and how to deal with the pain involved.
He had a point. You can't block everything.
Why not? I seriously cannot believe you're saying that! Surely having such a defeatist attitude will stave off any self-confidence building. There's nothing wrong in being cautious but if you accept you're going to get hit then why do any form of self defence at all?
Why not? I seriously cannot believe you're saying that! Surely having such a defeatist attitude will stave off any self-confidence building. There's nothing wrong in being cautious but if you accept you're going to get hit then why do any form of self defence at all?
because not all martial arts can say that they are the best and that they will be the right thing for you. it depends on how YOU develop as a martial artist how good your blocks are.
a block is like a kick and a punch, they do not have to look good to be effective.
but this is going back the to centreline theory, bottom person attacks and top person defends. top image, thte centreline is there for the taking, bottom, defender makes new centre line.
ik
EDIT: I expect to take a punch or two including a kick or two, in that way, I will not be scared of going into the fight, and that way I have the upper hand, of not being scared of getting hit. therefore I can relax into the fight, and not think about when or how I am going to be hit.
Also, if a warrior (as in ancient times) knew he might die in the battle he would probably fight better and harder knowing that his time may be up, but the one who is so scared to fight will die much quicker, because he is scared to fight. in other words if you know you can get hurt and then you accept it, you may do better and may come out with less injuries that you thought you might get.
It is not a defeatist attitude, but a realistic attitude.
because not all martial arts can say that they are the best and that they will be the right thing for you. it depends on how YOU develop as a martial artist how good your blocks are.
And THAT is the key to it all :)
And THAT is the key to it all :)
yes but the better martial artists know they can get hurt, and may lose, not that they will not get hurt cause they know how to block.
Being the best martial artist will not make you invincable, but give you the respect for the other fighter.
ik
I disagree - going in to a fight with the acceptance that your blocks may fail isn't the right frame of mind IMO. You can have extreme confidence going in to a fight and still have respect for your oponent.
Raistlin
04-07-2005, 19:57
The state of mind with which you enter a situation (don't like the word fight) is the most important part.
If you enter with "supreme confidence" in your ability to block (or whatever) then you are likely to get a hiding. Only by realising, and accepting, the possibility of defeat will you be able to reach your full potential.
The state of mind with which you enter a situation (don't like the word fight) is the most important part.
Having the confidence not to *get* into a fight or to walk away from it is an even better way of dealing with the situation
Raistlin
04-07-2005, 20:00
Having the confidence not to *get* into a fight or to walk away from it is an even better way of dealing with the situation
Not always an option though Graham, and by perpetually seeking escape despite evidence that none is available, you will only narrow your focus - and in so doing lose the width of vision required to succeed.
If you enter with "supreme confidence" in your ability to block (or whatever) then you are likely to get a hiding.
Don't you mean over confidence?
Only by realising, and accepting, the possibility of defeat will you be able to reach your full potential.
Well you're welcome to feel that way of course but I disagree strongly. Letting doubt creep in to your mind will surely create a crack in your mental armour.
allieyoung666
04-07-2005, 20:02
You still have to know how to defend yourself though Graham, some situations you cannot walk away from. If your instructor is good they will teach how to control yourself, I mean I am not going to go down Stockton high street tomorrow and kick somebodies bottom because I do not like the look of them. It is all about control and restraint and not going out to look for trouble.
I disagree - going in to a fight with the acceptance that your blocks may fail isn't the right frame of mind IMO. You can have extreme confidence going in to a fight and still have respect for your oponent.
knowing a martial art does not make you any better at fighting, you will never know what other people know, so if you think that because you know kung fu, you will win a fight/situation, then you will be defeated.
if I was in a pub, and someone wanted to fight me, I would know I know kung fu, but I would not know this peron may know jujitsu/karate/etc they may even be a psychopath wanting to cut you a new bum hole.
ik
Raistlin
04-07-2005, 20:03
Well you're welcome to feel that way of course but I disagree strongly. Letting doubt creep in to your mind will surely create a crack in your mental armour.
Only by acknowledging your frailties can you hope to realise your true strength. The mental armour provides protection only for a fool, if it restricts his mobility because of its weight.
Only by acknowledging your frailties can you hope to realise your true strength. The mental armour provides protection only for a fool, if it restricts his mobility because of its weight.
Wow, aren't we getting all Jedi-master tonight :D
Acknowledging your frailities is one thing, losing belief in your abilities is another!
Raistlin
04-07-2005, 20:10
Acknowledging your frailities is one thing, losing belief in your abilities is another!
Ahhh....now you approach the truth from the angle that brings enlightenment grasshopper..... :D
The fall from a height of over confidence will break more bones than a stumble into the depths of humility. Only from the foot of the mountain can you truely appreciate the task ahead.
Wow, aren't we getting all Jedi-master tonight :D
Acknowledging your frailities is one thing, losing belief in your abilities is another!
its not about losing belief in your abilities, its about accepting your level of abilities and not underestimating your opponents abilites.
example, I fought a guy who fought for scotland for +80kg category (i was in the +75kg - 80kg category), to go into the world championships, he was very confident he was going to walk all over me, as he told my instructor, who knows him well. My instructor said well good luck. I had only done one other competition before and I just went in there believing I was going to get my ass kicked.
He only beat me by one point, cause I am a cocky we sh*t and he did not know how to really handle me.
I knew I was beat but I gave it my all, and done very well, I cam second in the competition.
ik
The fall from a height of over confidence will break more bones than a stumble into the depths of humility. Only from the foot of the mountain can you truely appreciate the task ahead.
The man who fails to listen on the forum, usually ends up with shame...:D
I'm not talking about over-confidence, I'm talking about eliminating the negatives from your mind.
Having the confidence not to *get* into a fight or to walk away from it is an even better way of dealing with the situation
Not always an option though Graham,
No, but not being in the situation in the first place is a much better way of handling it.
and by perpetually seeking escape despite evidence that none is available, you will only narrow your focus - and in so doing lose the width of vision required to succeed.
Where is this "evidence"?
I know a *lot* of ways of avoiding situations where trouble could/ is developing and frankly I would rather succeed in getting away from it than having to fight my way out of it.
Where is this "evidence"?
Come on Graham, leave him alone, he had to say that in order to keep up the "wise master" personna ;) :D
Raistlin
04-07-2005, 20:20
The man who fails to listen on the forum, usually ends up with shame...:D
Man who walks through airport door sideways is going to Bangkok.....
I'm not talking about over-confidence, I'm talking about eliminating the negatives from your mind.
I know what you mean Russ. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it isn't really about eliminating the negatives from your mind, but about being comfortable with the way they balance against the positives.
In order to get the best from your mind you must allow it to be subject to two opposing influences. Postive/Negative. Scientific/Artistic. You must have an understanding of your own weaknesses, and be prepared to carry them into battle with you, before you can really understand your strengths and capitalise on them.
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Where is this "evidence"?
I know a *lot* of ways of avoiding situations where trouble could/ is developing and frankly I would rather succeed in getting away from it than having to fight my way out of it.
Granted, but that's not always possible.
A couple of my mates were attacked (a number of years ago) by a group of about 12 lads. They had no option but to take a beating (and give back what they could), this group of lads surrounded them and started punching and kicking them - for no reason other than to nick whatever valuables they could (as it turned out, about £2 and a phone card with no credit left on it).
They had no escape. If they had put up any serious resistance they would have taken more of a pasting than they did. As it was, they were lucky, one ended up with a fractured cheek, split lip, and broken tooth. The other got away with a few bruises.
There are situations from which there is no escape.
You still have to know how to defend yourself though Graham, some situations you cannot walk away from.
Yes, I agree and I don't deny that at all, but if you have *confidence* in yourself you know you *can* walk away from it.
It is all about control and restraint and not going out to look for trouble.
Of course.
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Where is this "evidence"?
Come on Graham, leave him alone, he had to say that in order to keep up the "wise master" personna ;) :D
I thought he was writing TV adverts for Orange...! ;)
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A couple of my mates were attacked (a number of years ago) by a group of about 12 lads. They had no option but to take a beating (and give back what they could), this group of lads surrounded them and started punching and kicking them - for no reason other than to nick whatever valuables they could (as it turned out, about £2 and a phone card with no credit left on it).
They had no escape. If they had put up any serious resistance they would have taken more of a pasting than they did. As it was, they were lucky, one ended up with a fractured cheek, split lip, and broken tooth. The other got away with a few bruises.
There are situations from which there is no escape.
Without knowing more details, it's difficult to comment, but my initial thought is "were they simply in the wrong place at the wrong time"? Could the situation have been avoided.
You say their total amount of valuables was £2 or so, in which case my next option wouldn't have worked, that of chucking a handful of notes and credit cards in the air and getting away whilst they were grabbing for them (I'd prefer to lose a few quid than get a kicking and I could probably claim it back on my insurance anyway).
Then again, did the lads just come out of nowhere and try to "steam" them or was there a confrontation first? In which case options include simply talking your way out of it, making a racket to attract attention or heading to a nearby house/ late night shop/ whatever to find "cover" and witnesses.
Alternatively, see who are the ringleaders and who is hanging back a bit and if it comes to a fight, select one or two those who hang back as your target, go straight for them and with any luck they will try to avoid you rather than engage you and that gives you a route to run away.
If that doesn't work, I would have no qualms about quite literally dropping to my knees and pleading for mercy and offering my worldly goods if they will let me go (well, actually one knee, because that puts you in a position that you can then push off the ground, driving your fist as hard as possible up into the ring leader's groin and taking advantage of his incapacity to run!)
You see there *are* always options open, you just have to allow yourself to see and exercise them.
Yes, I agree and I don't deny that at all, but if you have *confidence* in yourself you know you *can* walk away from it.
Of course.
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I thought he was writing TV adverts for Orange...! ;)
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Without knowing more details, it's difficult to comment, but my initial thought is "were they simply in the wrong place at the wrong time"? Could the situation have been avoided.
You say their total amount of valuables was £2 or so, in which case my next option wouldn't have worked, that of chucking a handful of notes and credit cards in the air and getting away whilst they were grabbing for them (I'd prefer to lose a few quid than get a kicking and I could probably claim it back on my insurance anyway).
Then again, did the lads just come out of nowhere and try to "steam" them or was there a confrontation first? In which case options include simply talking your way out of it, making a racket to attract attention or heading to a nearby house/ late night shop/ whatever to find "cover" and witnesses.
Alternatively, see who are the ringleaders and who is hanging back a bit and if it comes to a fight, select one or two those who hang back as your target, go straight for them and with any luck they will try to avoid you rather than engage you and that gives you a route to run away.
If that doesn't work, I would have no qualms about quite literally dropping to my knees and pleading for mercy and offering my worldly goods if they will let me go (well, actually one knee, because that puts you in a position that you can then push off the ground, driving your fist as hard as possible up into the ring leader's groin and taking advantage of his incapacity to run!)
You see there *are* always options open, you just have to allow yourself to see and exercise them.
or just fight as hard as possible, you may take a few out of the game, especially with a good few side kicks to the knees, take their stable base away and you have put a few on the ground, and can take them.....................
or RUN AWAY
plus you do not know when you will be happyslapped.
ik
Why not? I seriously cannot believe you're saying that! Surely having such a defeatist attitude will stave off any self-confidence building. There's nothing wrong in being cautious but if you accept you're going to get hit then why do any form of self defence at all?As Ikthius said, it's not defeatist, it's realistic.
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I disagree - going in to a fight with the acceptance that your blocks may fail isn't the right frame of mind IMO. You can have extreme confidence going in to a fight and still have respect for your oponent.It's a better frame of mind than going in full of confidence in your blocking ability and then being physically and mentally shocked to a standstill when you get hit. You need to prepare for all eventualities (as much as you can) and one of those is the distinct possibility that you will receive a blow or blows in a fight :shrug:
As for respecting my opponent--if I am in a position that I have to fight for real then I have no respect for my opponent....my only aim is to stop him. :confused:
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Having the confidence not to *get* into a fight or to walk away from it is an even better way of dealing with the situationAbsolutely :tu: :)
makikomi
04-07-2005, 22:49
The state of mind with which you enter a situation (don't like the word fight) is the most important part.
If you enter with "supreme confidence" in your ability to block (or whatever) then you are likely to get a hiding. Only by realising, and accepting, the possibility of defeat will you be able to reach your full potential.
I agree.
The samurai used to start each day with the acceptance that on that day, they would die. That allowed them to get on with whatever they were doing without fear or worry. And they were formidable warriors.
The key is to know and accept that your opponent may have some better techniques that you, but to have confidence that you can beat them. You need to know your own weaknesses and that your opponent may try to capitalise on them, in order to know how to deal with the ways they will try and beat you. This is not being defeatist, but realistic. You must have confidence that you are capable of winning, not that you WILL win.
Most times that I've seen someone swagger into a contest or fight, I've seen them get beaten.
Well it seems you can either go for the 'samurai' way and allow doubt to creep in to your mind, let errode at your confidence and take your chances or you can have belief that your blocks and training won't fail you. I know which one I'd prefer :shrug:
I agree.
The samurai used to start each day with the acceptance that on that day, they would die. That allowed them to get on with whatever they were doing without fear or worry. And they were formidable warriors.......and it made them concentrate on the 'here and now'..........
I'm no martial artist and I've never been in a situation where it's fight or flight but has anyone here been in such a situation and if so what happened. Does the old technique of 'hit the biggest & ugliest guy first & hit him hard' actually work. :shrug: Because I know if I was ever in such a situation and couldn't flee then a good old fashioned kick in the balls as hard as I can would be the first strike I make :) I don't care how big you are, that is going to hurt big time :)
Well it seems you can either go for the 'samurai' way and allow doubt to creep in to your mind, let errode at your confidence and take your chances or you can have belief that your blocks and training won't fail you. I know which one I'd prefer :shrug:Then you are set for a rude awakening Russ :(
Just 'cos I understand that I will probably get hit if I fight doesn't mean that I have let my confidence get erroded--I have just accepted that I may feel pain/get damaged on the path to overcoming my opponent. This enables me to be more confident (and realistic).
Then you are set for a rude awakening Russ :(
Just 'cos I understand that I will probably get hit if I fight doesn't mean that I have let my confidence get erroded--I have just accepted that I may feel pain/get damaged on the path to overcoming my opponent. This enables me to be more confident (and realistic).
In the 7 years I did Hong Lung Do Kung Fu not once did I ever take part in sparring and think "I'm going to get hit so I'd better prepare myself for it." I was always taught to believe and trust in my techniques. I just cannot comprehend anyone with the "well, you're gonna get hit one day" attitude. To me that begs the question of why offering any kind of defence in the first place.
I'm no martial artist and I've never been in a situation where it's fight or flight but has anyone here been in such a situation and if so what happened. I got hit....on a few occasions. I hit them back, they fell over..... on occasion I kicked them to make sure they didn't get up too soon.
Rammy is right.
ik
And so the authority has spoken! :D
In the 7 years I did Hong Lung Do Kung Fu not once did I ever take part in sparring and think "I'm going to get hit so I'd better prepare myself for it." I was always taught to believe and trust in my techniques. I just cannot comprehend anyone with the "well, you're gonna get hit one day" attitude. To me that begs the question of why offering any kind of defence in the first place.No sparring?! :shocked: How can you test your techniques and ability? Trust in the technique is nice but you have to actually use the techniques in a fight to test them. Even sparring isn't particularly realistic, tournaments are better but still have rules and as such, aren't very realistic.
Tezcatlipoca
04-07-2005, 23:15
No sparring?! :shocked: How can you test your techniques and ability? Trust in the technique is nice but you have to actually use the techniques in a fight to test them. Even sparring isn't particularly realistic, tournaments are better but still have rules and as such, aren't very realistic.
I took it to mean that Russ did take part in sparring, but - when sparring - he never thought "I'm going to get hit so I'd better prepare myself for it."
makikomi
04-07-2005, 23:16
I'm no martial artist and I've never been in a situation where it's fight or flight but has anyone here been in such a situation and if so what happened. Does the old technique of 'hit the biggest & ugliest guy first & hit him hard' actually work. :shrug: Because I know if I was ever in such a situation and couldn't flee then a good old fashioned kick in the balls as hard as I can would be the first strike I make :) I don't care how big you are, that is going to hurt big time :)
It really depends on the situation. You maybe better off taking a guy with a weapon out of the equation first. Or the nearest person. or the one blocking an escape route. Or the one who is most vocal and is inciting the others.
Dealing with the bigest and ugliest may be effective as tyou're showing that if you can beat the best of them, the rest of them may as well not bother you.
But it really does depend on the circumstances...
No sparring?! :shocked: How can you test your techniques and ability? Trust in the technique is nice but you have to actually use the techniques in a fight to test them. Even sparring isn't particularly realistic, tournaments are better but still have rules and as such, aren't very realistic.
Read the post again.....I didn't say I never took part in sparring!
Our sparring was very realistic and we never did tournaments as it was figured they have rules, whereas on the street there aren't any.
I took it to mean that Russ did take part in sparring, but - when sparring - he never thought "I'm going to get hit so I'd better prepare myself for it."Read the post again.....I didn't say I never took part in sparring!
Our sparring was very realistic and we never did tournaments as it was figured they have rules, whereas on the street there aren't any.Oh yes....I see that now :dunce:
But didn't you get hit Russ?
Oh yes....I see that now :dunce:
But didn't you get hit Russ?
Yes of course I did but I'd watch repeats of the session (all our sparring was recorded) and look where I went wrong and worked on the technique to better it next time.
Yes of course I did Well there you are then....If you got hit sparring then you will probably get hit in a fight as well..........
Well there you are then....If you got hit sparring then you will probably get hit in a fight as well..........
I'm not saying I'd never get hit - my point is I'd never go in to a situation acknowledging my training would (albeit for a second) let me down. It only takes a split second for your opponent to throw a knockout punch so it seems like you're saying you'd approach a fight accepting you're going to get knocked out and therefore lose.
I'm not saying I'd never get hit - my point is I'd never go in to a situation acknowledging my training would (albeit for a second) let me down. It only takes a split second for your opponent to throw a knockout punch so it seems like you're saying you'd approach a fight accepting you're going to get knocked out and therefore lose.Woah there......thats defeatist talk! :D
I have never gone into a fight accepting that I will get knocked out (and where did that come from anyway? :erm: ), just that I may get hurt in the fight......and have trained accordingly--by getting hurt in training :D
We allways have trained to deal with the pain of being hit by being hit in the training. That way when an opponent manages to sneak one in we might stand a chance of not falling over in shock.
Woah there......thats defeatist talk! :D
I have never gone into a fight accepting that I will get knocked out (and where did that come from anyway? :erm: ),
Ok then, let's look at it this way....
just that I may get hurt in the fight......
That you may get hurt - by a punch maybe? And could that punch (which, you say may hurt you) turn out to be one which has enough power and accuracy to knock you out?
You cannot say that you accept you might get hurt and dismiss the possibility that it might be a knockout strike, you don't have any control over that - it's your opponent. If you're accepting you may get hurt then you're accepting you might get KO'd.
and have trained accordingly--by getting hurt in training :D
You can be trained to take a kockout punch?!
We allways have trained to deal with the pain of being hit by being hit in the training. That way when an opponent manages to sneak one in we might stand a chance of not falling over in shock.
Or falling over from being KO'd? I'm sorry but I just cannot fathom this way of thinking!
You maybe better off taking a guy with a weapon out of the equation first. ...
Speaking of weapons, did anyone see that series on bbc3 Mind Body & Kickass
Moves I think it was and the guy went to a snooker hall and asked this big guy to take a swing at him with a snooker cue :Yikes: The guy swinging was quite big and thought he was all that and certainly didn't hold back when swinging but he was in for a shock as the guy moved inside the swing took hold of the guy and rather easily throw him to the ground :D It looked very impressive :)
I think what he was trying to demonstrate was that if someone swings an item at you, the instinct is to move back but you really should move forward into the swing and then perform some kickass judo throw :)
makikomi
05-07-2005, 01:07
Speaking of weapons, did anyone see that series on bbc3 Mind Body & Kickass
Moves I think it was and the guy went to a snooker hall and asked this big guy to take a swing at him with a snooker cue :Yikes: The guy swinging was quite big and thought he was all that and certainly didn't hold back when swinging but he was in for a shock as the guy moved inside the swing took hold of the guy and rather easily throw him to the ground :D It looked very impressive :)
I think what he was trying to demonstrate was that if someone swings an item at you, the instinct is to move back but you really should move forward into the swing and then perform some kickass judo throw :)
You are correct in saying that if someone swings something at you like a snooker cue, you may be safer moving close to them than trying to back out of range, as the tip of the cue would be moving at a faster speed than the middle.
How you finish them off though is entirely up to you.
But it's nice to know that some people think some judo throws are kickass! :D
Raistlin
05-07-2005, 01:09
Step inside the swing, and towards the body of your attacker.
Rotate your body in the direction of the swing.
Take your attacker's arm, get your hip in, and over they go.
Keep hold of the cue arm as they go down, slide your hand up and take the cue as the hit the floor, beat them repeatedly with the cue.
You see there *are* always options open, you just have to allow yourself to see and exercise them.
or just fight as hard as possible, you may take a few out of the game, especially with a good few side kicks to the knees, take their stable base away and you have put a few on the ground, and can take them.....................
Yes, that's an option, but only in the sense that when you use the following one...
or RUN AWAY
... it means there are less to chase you.
Step inside the swing, and towards the body of your attacker.
Rotate your body in the direction of the swing.
Take your attacker's arm, get your hip in, and over they go.
Keep hold of the cue arm as they go down, slide your hand up and take the cue as the hit the floor, beat them repeatedly with the cue.
That just about summed it up if I remember rightly, except for the beating with the cue at the end :D Just think how exciting snooker would be to watch if the players started doing this to each other :scratch:
As for respecting my opponent--if I am in a position that I have to fight for real then I have no respect for my opponent....my only aim is to stop him. :confused:
Damn right!
Anyone who believes that there is *really* such a thing as a "fair fight" is simply asking for trouble.
I've never had to fight (partly due to luck, partly due to being smart and partly due to knowing when to get the hell away) but if it came down to it my targets would be: eyes, throat, knees, groin, elbows.
All of these are, of course, totally illegal in "sport" Martial Arts, but fighting is *not* a game and if it's a matter of protecting myself then I would have no qualms about doing whatever is necessary to do that.
Graham's three rules of "fighting":
1) Talk your way out of it.
2) Run away from it.
3) Do something *very* nasty, then use option 2 *very* fast.
However the over-riding rule is *DON'T* be in a situation where a fight could develop in the first place!
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The samurai used to start each day with the acceptance that on that day, they would die.
Dwarven battle cry from the Discworld books:
"Today is a good day for *someone else* to die...!"
Raistlin
05-07-2005, 02:06
That just about summed it up if I remember rightly, except for the beating with the cue at the end :D
Sorry, I was ad-libing :D
Ok then, let's look at it this way....
That you may get hurt - by a punch maybe? And could that punch (which, you say may hurt you) turn out to be one which has enough power and accuracy to knock you out?
You cannot say that you accept you might get hurt and dismiss the possibility that it might be a knockout strike, you don't have any control over that - it's your opponent. If you're accepting you may get hurt then you're accepting you might get KO'd.
You can be trained to take a kockout punch?!
Or falling over from being KO'd? I'm sorry but I just cannot fathom this way of thinking!Lol......now you are into the bane of the martial arts.....the 'what if' way of thinking. You just have to try to train for all eventualities.
KO's are possible to train for........boxers do this as a normal part of training.....Of course you cannot train for being hit in the face by just standing there and taking it but you can expose yourself to blows to the face and head in sparring and learn to become somewhat inured to them.
I just think it's foolish to expect to never get hit by having a supreme confidence in your blocking ability......no one is that good :shrug:
I think russ that maybe martial arts is not for you, but maybe a lightsabre?! :D
ik
......no one is that good :shrug:
I think the guy's name was Bruce Lee....
I think the guy's name was Bruce Lee....
he was only good, because of the cinema status, but he did also get hit and believed that if you accept that you will be hit/hurt, then you will fight better, it is in his tao of jeet kune do.
ik
Looks like we'll have to call this one a stalemate then!
Looks like we'll have to call this one a stalemate then!
were we playing chess? :D
ik
Looks like we'll have to call this one a stalemate then! :D
See after all that it has proved that fighting is not the answer just get a chess board out and all will be well :D
makikomi
05-07-2005, 19:28
See after all that it has proved that fighting is not the answer just get a chess board out and all will be well :D
Yes, get a chessboard out...
...and smash it repeatedly over the head of your assailant. :D :p: :tu:
......no one is that good :shrug:
I think the guy's name was Bruce Lee....
Bruce Lee was once beaten up by three blokes in a car park because they all jumped on him at one time. Cinema isn't real life.
Bruce Lee was once beaten up by three blokes in a car park because they all jumped on him at one time. Cinema isn't real life.
Nobody is saying it is Graham - and a 3 on 1 situation is entirely different!
allieyoung666
05-07-2005, 19:49
Because martal arts are not about kicking the pants out of anyone. The amount of times I have had to walk away because the situation doesnt warrant martal arts, out numbers the times I have had to use it. I do it purely as a hobby and I love it.
grandmaster
05-07-2005, 20:28
as a martial artist i'm forever finding myself analysing tv and movies asking myself hmmm would that particular move work etc.
Does anyone else do that or am i a wierdo
makikomi
05-07-2005, 22:24
as a martial artist i'm forever finding myself analysing tv and movies asking myself hmmm would that particular move work etc.
Does anyone else do that or am i a wierdo
Yes, I do that.
I think it shows an analytical mind and a willingness to learn....
or maybe we're both weirdos! :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:
as a martial artist i'm forever finding myself analysing tv and movies asking myself hmmm would that particular move work etc.
Does anyone else do that or am i a wierdo
no I just laugh and keep watching.
ik
Bruce Lee was once beaten up by three blokes in a car park because they all jumped on him at one time. Cinema isn't real life.
Nobody is saying it is Graham - and a 3 on 1 situation is entirely different!
But ask many Karateka what Tekki/ Nai Fuan Chin/ Nai Han Chi (or whatever name they give to it) is for and they'll say "oh, it's for fighting three people with your back to a wall".
Sure, but only if they all attack you one at a time...!
:shrug:
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as a martial artist i'm forever finding myself analysing tv and movies asking myself hmmm would that particular move work etc.
Does anyone else do that or am i a wierdo
Actually I usually find myself laughing my socks off! It's great in films, but as I said before, films aren't real life...
ok, I am resurecting this thread, cause I ask a favour.....
do any of you lot do karate?
have any of you karate people passed your black belt?
do any of you black belters in karate, have your black belt embroidered with your name and club etc?
if the answer is yest to all of the above questions.......
how much did you pay, and where did you get it? websites if possible please.
ik
I passed my 1st Dan (Shotokan-EKGB) back in 1993 and I paid £50 for a heavy silk belt embroidered with my name in Japanese (at least I hope it's my name!:D )
No idea where it came from as my instructor got it for me......and he didn't make any money out of it....
one of my fiends just passed her first dan and made shodan, I think thats right, aand she wants to get one of these belts, but thtey are damn expensive or dont do personalised embroidery.
ik
one of my fiends just passed her first dan and made shodan, I think thats right, aand she wants to get one of these belts, but thtey are damn expensive or dont do personalised embroidery.
ikGood for her! :tu:
She should ask her instructor about the belt as they are the ones who get instructors discounts and have the contacts.....but you are correct, they are expensive.....and annoying--the heavier/better the silk belt, the more 'wearing in' it needs to stop it coming undone during use. The thing is that you want a heavy good silk belt because they last the longest and wear in a more aesthetic fashion :D
zing_deleted
13-03-2006, 03:06
When I used to train we always had a certain way to tie the belts keeping them out of the way,not just a knot but similar to a simple tie knot.
I did Lau Gar kung fu and IMAO Full contact kickboxing the former had silk and the latter the heavy I never had a problem with either tbh mind you with full contact you aint to bothered about the belt more bothered about not getting hit ;)
When I used to train we always had a certain way to tie the belts keeping them out of the way,not just a knot but similar to a simple tie knot.
I did Lau Gar kung fu and IMAO Full contact kickboxing the former had silk and the latter the heavy I never had a problem with either tbh mind you with full contact you aint to bothered about the belt more bothered about not getting hit ;)
thanks for the input, but does not help....... :erm:
I was asking about black belts for karate so that my friend can get things embroidered on to it...... and why shouldn't she? she's earned it I think!
I personally do Kung Fu, (lan jung kuen aka Lau Gar) and we have silky wee sashes to show off our grade level, they don't hold up your trousers, the wee tying lace thing inside the trousers does that!!!!.
ik
She could give Kamae (http://www.kamae.co.uk/) a ring and ask them.......thats where my belt comes from.
ScaredWebWarrior
13-03-2006, 09:53
Any ideas?Fencing. Places high demands on body and mind.
It was interesting that at answers.com they gave a list of 'martial arts' and managed to come up with everything, from all over the world, except fencing!
There's also a lot of people incorrectly think that 'martial arts' exclusively means oriental fighting arts.
There's also a lot of people incorrectly think that 'martial arts' exclusively means oriental fighting arts.On that point, there is a lot of interesting stuff here (http://ejmas.com/jmanly/) regarding European fighting techniques and history.
There's also a lot of people incorrectly think that 'martial arts' exclusively means oriental fighting arts.
True - a mate of mine does Krav Maga, it's an Israeli style I think.
Apparently there's a Glasweigen martial art as well, it's called 'F**k Yu' and is mostly headbutting and kicking people while they're on the floor.*
*©Mike Myers So I Married an Axe Murderer
zing_deleted
13-03-2006, 11:18
When I used to train we always had a certain way to tie the belts keeping them out of the way,not just a knot but similar to a simple tie knot.
I did Lau Gar kung fu and IMAO Full contact kickboxing the former had silk and the latter the heavy I never had a problem with either tbh mind you with full contact you aint to bothered about the belt more bothered about not getting hit ;)
thanks for the input, but does not help....... :erm:
I was asking about black belts for karate so that my friend can get things embroidered on to it...... and why shouldn't she? she's earned it I think!
I personally do Kung Fu, (lan jung kuen aka Lau Gar) and we have silky wee sashes to show off our grade level, they don't hold up your trousers, the wee tying lace thing inside the trousers does that!!!!.
ik
Well In Lau Gar you get your sash when you pay your rediuclas amount to Jeramy Yau for the grade ;) Theres a martial arts supplier in coventry that used to supply loads of stuff including blank belts might be worth giving them a call
Far East Martial Arts Sportswear Shop
108, Spon End, Coventry, West Midlands CV1 3HF
Tel: 024 7659 0290
Classification: Martial Arts
---------- Post added at 11:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 ----------
Any ideas?Fencing. Places high demands on body and mind.
It was interesting that at answers.com they gave a list of 'martial arts' and managed to come up with everything, from all over the world, except fencing!
There's also a lot of people incorrectly think that 'martial arts' exclusively means oriental fighting arts.
Kendo is the eastern equivilent to fencing isnt it? this is very rigerous and would be good for fitness.
Personally and im going back 10 years now I wouldnt entertain a martial art that had no contact in it.I always used to feel if I didnt get home with my ears ringing then I hadnt had a good work out :disturbd:
monkey2468
13-03-2006, 11:29
When I used to train we always had a certain way to tie the belts keeping them out of the way,not just a knot but similar to a simple tie knot.
Its a reef knot... I think?
In Kung Fu we just turned the knot to the side :shrug:
In Kung Fu we just turned the knot to the side :shrug:
what we got told was that it does not get in your way then, tied to teh left is for students, and tied to the right is for instructor.
I know that nearly everything we do, starts with left side, either left hand first or left leg first.
Well In Lau Gar you get your sash when you pay your rediuclas amount to Jeramy Yau for the grade
well we are not part of the BKFA, so we don't pay him a penny.
ik
zing_deleted
13-03-2006, 11:57
Yeah we broke away too a little before I left unfortunatly the BKFA had already fleeced me.It appears they have a shop here too http://www.imao.org.uk/welcome.html
Yeah we broke away too a little before I left unfortunatly the BKFA had already fleeced me.It appears they have a shop here too http://www.imao.org.uk/welcome.html
the website looks like it has LMAO as its title :D
ik
zing_deleted
13-03-2006, 12:45
Yeah we broke away too a little before I left unfortunatly the BKFA had already fleeced me.It appears they have a shop here too http://www.imao.org.uk/welcome.html
the website looks like it has LMAO as its title :D
ik
I know lol would say that to Humphrey Broomes face though :D
I train in Wing Chun at a martial arts school in Sussex. The website is www.kung-fu-lessons.co.uk It's pretty cool and the instructor was a part of the organisation you mention..
I get the impression that there's a lot of politics and b....ing involved behind the scenes so I think I'll just concentrate on me and not get involved!!
I think it's quite good for self defence but you can get involved in the 'traditional arty' side. I think the main thing is to know what could be used for real and what's for fun. LIke if you have a 15 hit combo ha ha lets be honest - the first couple are real, the rest a bit of a giggle!!
J
I train in Wing Chun at a martial arts school in Sussex. The website is www.kung-fu-lessons.co.uk (http://www.kung-fu-lessons.co.uk) It's pretty cool and the instructor was a part of the organisation you mention..
I get the impression that there's a lot of politics and b....ing involved behind the scenes so I think I'll just concentrate on me and not get involved!!
I think it's quite good for self defence but you can get involved in the 'traditional arty' side. I think the main thing is to know what could be used for real and what's for fun. LIke if you have a 15 hit combo ha ha lets be honest - the first couple are real, the rest a bit of a giggle!!
J
welcome,
well your site looks not bad so far, first page, but too early today to get a proper look, will do that tomorrow, as I got a big heavy night out planned after work :o)
but the site is a bit wide, is that designed for 19" monitors?
Wing chun would be a cool style to learn, unfortunately there is only one club near me that does it and it is on the same days as I train.
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