View Full Version : Annoyed at Attempted Break In
I am so flaming furious right now, me and my gf go upstairs to watch a movie and relax a little after a very long day. And dogs start barking like there is no tommorow, so I go downstairs only to be met with some **** from next door trying my ****ing window in the kitchen.
Totally not impressed and am tempted to find this little twit and personally rip his neck off. My poor new puppy Sasha was so scared by him she wet and crapped herself, at least the older dogs protected her and warned us.
I am off out tommorow to get a c02 powered airrifle or bb gun. They can jail me but I aint sitting here defenceless. I have got my Samuri swords unpacked and sharpened and my elven daggers also.
Woah, calm down m8 .... whatever you do, wait 'til the red mist has cleared before you take action, you don't want it to be you that gets locked up and not the little scrote who was trying to get into your house.
Take a deep breath. You can identify him to the boys in blue, right? His fingerprints are all over your kitchen window, yes? Chances are he's already known to the police, if he's brainless enough to try to burglarize one of his own neighbours. Get one back at him, but do it legally.
homealone
16-06-2005, 22:10
Woah, calm down m8 .... whatever you do, wait 'til the red mist has cleared before you take action, you don't want it to be you that gets locked up and not the little scrote who was trying to get into your house.
Take a deep breath. You can identify him to the boys in blue, right? His fingerprints are all over your kitchen window, yes? Chances are he's already known to the police, if he's brainless enough to try to burglarize one of his own neighbours. Get one back at him, but do it legally.
wise words - what kind of dumb a$$ tries to get into a house where they know dogs will at a minimum make a noise, anyway, take a chillpill, Andy - and I agree you should report it to the Police...
Nope had gloves on, I have complained about this little ****e before.
Nothing is done as I require proof before council or cops will act.
I am so flaming furious right now, me and my gf go upstairs to watch a movie and relax a little after a very long day. And dogs start barking like there is no tommorow, so I go downstairs only to be met with some **** from next door trying my ****ing window in the kitchen.
Totally not impressed and am tempted to find this little twit and personally rip his neck off. My poor new puppy Sasha was so scared by him she wet and crapped herself, at least the older dogs protected her and warned us.
I am off out tommorow to get a c02 powered airrifle or bb gun. They can jail me but I aint sitting here defenceless. I have got my Samuri swords unpacked and sharpened and my elven daggers also.
Easy tiger! as chris says, calm down and think about it.... no point in getting yourself in trouble with old bill. Does this guy live next door? if so maybe a word in his ear will do the trick, let him know next time they'll be big problems or even give old bill a ring and get them to have a word that should scare the little c**t off, but make sure your in the right frame of mind before taking any "action" good luck fella.
Easy tiger! as chris says, calm down and think about it.... no point in getting yourself in trouble with old bill. Does this guy live next door? if so maybe a word in his ear will do the trick, let him know next time they'll be big problems or even give old bill a ring and get them to have a word that should scare the little c**t off, but make sure your in the right frame of mind before taking any "action" good luck fella.
gf is sat on porch sharpening her 3 samuri's, the little tike has gone out with his dad.
Set up a simple cctv system that might catch the "expletive deleted". Have his parents no idea of what he is up to? Or it's even worse if they do:Yikes:
I have chosen a more appropriate topic title than just '*****'. :)
And as other people have said Andrew - Calm down.
paulyoung666
16-06-2005, 22:16
get a ****ing grip , are you right in the head !!!!!!!!!!!!! , i can understand you being p!ssed about this , but the way you are going on i am going to be reading about you in the papers in the morning , get yourself a camera if you aint got one and catch the b@stard in the act ;)
We are chilled and I am not going to Tony MARTIN the little twit.
I am getting a friend up who has a few wireless cameras he is not using.
I will get even on this without loosing it people, the swords are more of a last resort if we are threatened.
Can we also refrain from swearing as well. (Regardless if its starred out or not).
Agreed sorry about the outburst people, but my gf and the dogs mean alot to me and to think of ever loosing them to a robber or my possesions is something I will not tolerate.
I will get even cameras are to be setup in the morning. Plus a letter to my local housing officer.
Raistlin
16-06-2005, 22:24
Get yourself a camera (either film, digital, or CCTV) and catch the light bleeper on the act. Try not to go for one where you can't switch the flash off though. If you use a flash you will just get lots of lovely pictures of the inside of the window.
Wireless cameras are coming down which I can monitor on a tv in the bedroom, lucky I have a friend who bought a few too many for his house of Ebay.
Agreed sorry about the outburst people, but my gf and the dogs mean alot to me and to think of ever loosing them to a robber or my possesions is something I will not tolerate.
No-one should tolerate it, so do something about it which won't get yourself carted off in a police car. An attempted break in, is a crime you can still report to the police.
We won't as then the neighbours who I guess to be druggies with the amount of expensive cars which arrive and the general look of this kids parents. I do not wish to give them the sight of us being intimidated.
I shall gather my proof, over time and make this house safer ( window alarms, cameras etc ) then get the cops involved once I have a case.
etccarmageddon
17-06-2005, 08:29
No-one should tolerate it, so do something about it which won't get yourself carted off in a police car. An attempted break in, is a crime you can still report to the police.
better get a move on as the finger prints wont last for ever.
Good luck Andrew. That sounds like a bad day you had there.
As everyone else has said, make sure you yourself dont end up in jail.
I'd avoid buying a gun if I was you.....it could get you in a whole load more problems.
CCTV is your best bet and changing your locks, as well as fitting window locks or an alarm.
Good luck to you all. I hope you have a more peaceful weekend than this week.
STONEISLAND
17-06-2005, 11:36
Get your sword and chop his hands off. Thats what i say.
MovedGoalPosts
17-06-2005, 12:06
There have been a number of successful cases where neighbourhoods have worked together to address individuals who keep causing problems. Has your local police got any form of neighbourhood police officer? Speak to them, make sure they understand the issues. Seek advice from them as to how this can be prevented legally. Even if they wont take action through lack of specific evidence, yet, what do they need, how bad must it get, before they could pursue a case for harrasment, or perhaps an ASBO?
There have been a number of successful cases where neighbourhoods have worked together to address individuals who keep causing problems. Has your local police got any form of neighbourhood police officer? Speak to them, make sure they understand the issues. Seek advice from them as to how this can be prevented legally. Even if they wont take action through lack of specific evidence, yet, what do they need, how bad must it get, before they could pursue a case for harrasment, or perhaps an ASBO?
The neighbourhood a few miles away from me, worked successfuly to address two brothers causing problems. After a number of years the police had unsuccessfuly failed with these pair, the residents however put a stop to their theiving one evening.
No arrests were made as a result of the residents actions, off record the police were only too pleased with the results.
Most of these young **** who break in these days are experienced from an early age, the skills are generally passed down from their parents. Its most likely they will wear gloves and be very careful, what can you do about it though. In this country the do-gooder brigade have a problem with someone breaking into your house and getting a good beating.
Its simple, if they dont break in they wont get a good beating!
grandmaster
17-06-2005, 13:03
You have imo every right to be annoyed!
Once he has entered your house you have the right to give him the biggest kicking on the planet.
Swords --- To much for obvious reasons
Once he has entered your house you have the right to give him the biggest kicking on the planet.
No you do *NOT*
If you go beyond "reasonable force" to restrain an intruder it can be *YOU* who ends up in court.
PS It doesn't matter whether you like this or not, that's the *law*.
Once he has entered your house you have the right to give him the biggest kicking on the planet.
No you do *NOT*
If you go beyond "reasonable force" to restrain an intruder it can be *YOU* who ends up in court.
PS It doesn't matter whether you like this or not, that's the *law*.
Define "reasonable force".
gotcha
grandmaster
17-06-2005, 13:12
Define "reasonable force".
You beat me to it...
;)
Define "reasonable force".
You beat me to it...
pwnd... :angel:
fireman328
17-06-2005, 13:56
Follw the link to the legal definition of "reasonable force"
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html
__________________
Damn ! I must speed up my typing
grandmaster
17-06-2005, 14:14
Nice one...
Thats defo worth a read.
Agreed, so far I have fitted window alarms, beefed up window locks, also a few cameras on front side and back of the house which can view limited in night.
But my favorite is the radio, I can speak a voice through the entire house through a cb radio linked to a microphone to my pc when i set it up.
AHHAHAHA
MovedGoalPosts
17-06-2005, 15:00
Define "reasonable force".
I'm sure we've had this debate before, and no doubt will have it again ;)
The word force is quite simple. There has to be control in the actions being exerted. There is, thus no such thing as "excessive force"
Reasonable is however much more subjective. It has regard to the circumstances, but primarily, in the eyes of the law comes down to whether others in that same situation would agree that the action taken was a normal understandable course of events, or whether it went too far.
Follw the link to the legal definition of "reasonable force"
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html
Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in selfdefence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.
As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.Which is what a policeman told me as well.........he said that you have to claim that you were 'in fear of your life' --and stick to that.............then you can pretty much get away with anything.
zoombini
17-06-2005, 15:48
let the little sod pinch something, then catch him leaving, kick the heck out of him & put a lump of wood on the floor next to his bleeding limp body :D
How about getting his house broken into & a note left where "his" things were saying "how the F do you like it!".
Chimaera
17-06-2005, 15:58
Well if there is a next time (and I sincerely hope there isn't!), ring 999 as soon as you see the would-be culprit and tell the police you and your girlfriend are vulnerable due to your various medical conditions, and you believe he may be carrying a weapon - that should get the boys in blue around to your place pretty sharpish! :D
hate to be a killjoy and i wish you luck in your endevours to catch this little scrote as someone in an earlier message called him.
but if i remember right i read somewhere that you could be breaking the law if you photograph him or film him without is permission.
something to do with his human rights i think.
don't forget the law in this country nowadays is there to protect the villian not the victim.(sorry about the sarcasm people but this is the view i have held for the law of this land for a longtime now)
andy
Graham M
17-06-2005, 16:34
Think you just have to have a sign saying you are filming for security purposes
but if i remember right i read somewhere that you could be breaking the law if you photograph him or film him without is permission.
something to do with his human rights i think.
Complicated situation. AIUI, If you are your own property, then you are allowed to photograph people, with some conditions though: You can't distribute the pictures, and you can't take 'compromising' pictures, i.e. putting cameras in the floor and photographing up girl's skirts.
Raistlin
17-06-2005, 16:35
i read somewhere that you could be breaking the law if you photograph him or film him without is permission.
Ok, don't photograph or film him then.
SImply take photographs of, or film, the inside of your kitchen window. If he happens to be on the other side of it (and be visible on the film) then :shrug:
I will put the sign up. On my roof, facing the sunlight ( south facing ) in clear font, shame about the sunlight on a brass plate, shame about the sunlight.
No-one should tolerate it, so do something about it which won't get yourself carted off in a police car. An attempted break in, is a crime you can still report to the police.
but what good would reporting it to the police do unless you've got proof there not interested.
there only interested if they can give you a 60 quid fixed penalty notice and three points on your licence
etccarmageddon
17-06-2005, 16:50
Think you just have to have a sign saying you are filming for security purposesOnly for data protection and it doesnt apply to householders.
Flubflow
17-06-2005, 16:53
hate to be a killjoy and i wish you luck in your endevours to catch this little scrote as someone in an earlier message called him.
but if i remember right i read somewhere that you could be breaking the law if you photograph him or film him without is permission.
something to do with his human rights i think.
don't forget the law in this country nowadays is there to protect the villian not the victim.(sorry about the sarcasm people but this is the view i have held for the law of this land for a longtime now)
andy
If that was so then the tabloids would be out of business.
Aside from the voyuerism laws, it is more to do with what one does with the photos/video afterwards (e.g. posting them publically, especially if they are minors, with malicious alegations attached to them).
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it especially if one is only trying to get film of someone attempting to break in to ones property for evidence purposes.
If that was so then the tabloids would be out of business.
Aside from the voyuerism laws, it is more to do with what one does with the photos/video afterwards (e.g. posting them publically, especially if they are minors, with malicious alegations attached to them).
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it especially if you are only trying to get film of someone attempting to break in to you property for evidence purposes.
define voyuerism
Flubflow
17-06-2005, 17:06
define voyuerism
Well, you could get a dictionary (like i need one to spell voyeurism properly ;)) or, if you just meant in terms of this topic and the law, then I suppose things like pointing your camera up a lady's skirt (or a Scotman's kilt), a hidden camera in somewhere like a changing room, filming into someone's bedroom window etc etc. would be good examples.
Think you just have to have a sign saying you are filming for security purposes
See http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=25340&page=4
The law regarding this states that a private security camera must not cover any part of the public highway/land or any other private land. It must not be covert or hidden in any way. And clear notices stating that cameras are in use, MUST be shown at any entry point to a covered area. As the owner and cinematographer I own copyrights on any recording and I will release a copy of coverage to telewest if requested. But I can only release coverage of the time the tech guy was here, as publication/distribution disclaimers have not been signed by other third parties.
yes but in reply to graham is this british law or european law.
i thought it was against this attempted burglars human rights under european laws.
but then again maybe i'm wrong you get such conflicting views nowadays in newspapers and on tv.
LemonyBrainAid
17-06-2005, 17:31
Surely if it's your property, you have a right to do whatever (within reason) such as, record. If you do get in trouble for it, make up a simple excuse, such as "I'm an avid birdwatcher" etc...
Flubflow
17-06-2005, 17:35
yes but in reply to graham is this british law or european law.
i thought it was against this attempted burglars human rights under european laws.
but then again maybe i'm wrong you get such conflicting views nowadays in newspapers and on tv.
If you point a CCTV camera outside the boundaries of your home so that you can see people on the public highway or on your neighbours property then those people, under the human rights laws, could very well have a claim. You have a right to use CCTV within your own boundaries (and for domestic use you don't need any warning signs for that).
EDIT:
Since the whole point here is to catch a burglar then there would be no need to point the camera outside the boundaries anyway.
Having said all the above, if you are regularly witnessing crime in your street or crime originating from your neighbours property against you then maybe you could use CCTV to cover that because "Public Interest" would probably win over Human Rights.
I have the view that either the intruder gets me, or I get him first. I would tell the police I thought there were more than one, I would say I thought I heard two or three voices etc. I found a long time ago when dealing with the law, it doesn't pay to be too honest with them.
When the subject of force against burglars has come up here before, one or two have used excuses against force. Such as "perhaps they will come back with a weapon etc" My current girlfriend is from the Manila in the Phillipines, she says street crime is worse there than Cardiff where she currently lives. She says that burgalry is very rare, because if someone has broken into your house you are allowed to go as far as killing them, no questions asked.
As a result of that the Phillipines has almost no problem with people breaking into houses and stealing like we do in the UK. I have had a few chats about this issue with people from Asia and South African countries, and they are usually amazed at the laws in this country that stack the odds in favour of the criminals.
I just hope I'm at home if I get an intruder!
Chimaera
17-06-2005, 18:22
My elderly neighbour was getting plagued with 'scrotes' messing up her garden etc, she put some signs up in her front room window saying 'Smile, you are being filmed for posterity!' She never had any more trouble, and never went to the bother or expense of cameras either!
I might take a leaf from her book, as in the last couple of weeks we've had some terracotta pots (complete with plants) go missing from our front garden. :grind: :mad: :afire: :ninja: :2up:
don't you think that the country is in a sorry state when we have to have forum posts like these.
i can remember the days when the local copper would have gone round to the said scrotes house and told his parents who in turn would have given there son a clip round the ear or worse and the problem would have been solved.
Richard M
17-06-2005, 19:42
You need a sign like this:
Just had front windows open as we clean the house up for visitors tommorow, only to get the kid next door and his mates with the normal.
"hey mate that guy said yor a nob innit wot ya goin da do bowt it"
Then the normal abuse once I shut window, nothing done to my house just remarks.
__________________
You need a sign like this:
I like.
ALOT :D
zoombini
17-06-2005, 20:14
As far as the stupidity of the law & CCTV camera's goes I wouldn't be concerned about it.
Far more good has come from people using CCTV around the home than people getting in trouble for it. In fact I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble, however I'm often hearing how the police want copies of CCTV tapes that point over public areas etc.
Well my camera's are up and working nicely and there is no sign up yet. I will put one up if I have to, going to speak to my local cop station and get advice there, and in writing ;).
So far the kids only been normal kids outside.
Chimaera
17-06-2005, 21:16
Well my camera's are up and working nicely and there is no sign up yet. I will put one up if I have to, going to speak to my local cop station and get advice there, and in writing ;).
So far the kids only been normal kids outside.
Which camera's have you got, and are you recording from them? Just for my own future reference! ;)
mrlipring
18-06-2005, 00:15
Which camera's have you got, and are you recording from them? Just for my own future reference! ;)
It'd be pretty pointless not to. ;)
LemonyBrainAid
18-06-2005, 21:56
You need a sign like this:
Unfortunately, I don't find that...entirely practical, shall we say? ;);)
purenuman
18-06-2005, 22:05
She says that burgalry is very rare, because if someone has broken into your house you are allowed to go as far as killing them, no questions asked.
As a result of that the Phillipines has almost no problem with people breaking into houses and stealing like we do in the UK...............
How many people are dragged in to houses so they can be murdered........
...........no questions asked.:Yikes:
You need a sign like this:
Unfortunately, I don't find that...entirely practical, shall we say? ;);)
Err why not? I'd just prefer something wordy, like
"trespassers may be liable to capital punishment" or something to that effect.
Seriously though, I feel intruders are "fair game" whatever the law says. The long and short is, they shouldn't be there, and if they're breaking the law (by trespassing, and breaking in) then the law shouldn't be useable to protect them.
What fair society protects "criminals" over their "victims"?
[Oh and you're one off a milestone- use it well!]
MovedGoalPosts
19-06-2005, 02:18
If you point a CCTV camera outside the boundaries of your home so that you can see people on the public highway or on your neighbours property then those people, under the human rights laws, could very well have a claim. You have a right to use CCTV within your own boundaries (and for domestic use you don't need any warning signs for that).
EDIT:
Since the whole point here is to catch a burglar then there would be no need to point the camera outside the boundaries anyway.
Having said all the above, if you are regularly witnessing crime in your street or crime originating from your neighbours property against you then maybe you could use CCTV to cover that because "Public Interest" would probably win over Human Rights.
The way I had Human Rights legislation explained to me, (effectively it is the UK's interpretation of European Convention, thus it is Europe dicatating rules to us which Blair happily followed), is that it is gpvernments, their agents and larger companies or organisations that need to be careful to observe the human rights, not the individual. Thus a householder could not be prosecuted, as far as I'm aware for infringing human rights, so if a CCTV camera of a private individual was to capture images on public streets, no problem. Now whether the police as a "govenment body" who are subject to human rights could then use that CCTV footage, I don't know.
purenuman
19-06-2005, 10:46
Seriously though, I feel intruders are "fair game" whatever the law says. The long and short is, they shouldn't be there, and if they're breaking the law (by trespassing, and breaking in) then the law shouldn't be useable to protect them.
What fair society protects "criminals" over their "victims"?
[Oh and you're one off a milestone- use it well!]
The 'rights' are there to protect people :rolleyes:
If a neighbour took an extreme dislike to you what is to stop him inviting you in to his house and kicking the **** out of you and saying you sneaked in and he caught you............ Yes that's correct the same rights you say protect the "criminals"....
All the 'rights' mean is that you only have the right to protect yourself and belongings with reasonable force.
If an intruder is trying to harm you and you injure them you won't be prosecuted. You would not even be charged if you killed them as long as it was reasonable to assume he would have killed or severely injured you.
His 'rights' only go as far as protecting him if you caught him and even after he gave himself up and was co-operative you kicked the **** out of him.....
You can not allow people to kill or injure intruders 'no questions asked' as it would be a far to convenient and easy way of murdering people.........
Does the law protect me? What is †˜reasonable forceââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢?
Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in selfdefence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.
As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.
So
You see officer i was in fear of my life.
So i beat the living **** out of him with the baseball bat i keep by my bed in case i have to break the windows to get out in a fire.
Sorry officer will you call the ambulance or me ?
Flubflow
19-06-2005, 11:20
Well my camera's are up and working nicely and there is no sign up yet. I will put one up if I have to, going to speak to my local cop station and get advice there, and in writing ;).
So far the kids only been normal kids outside.
Legally, you really don't need a sign. If your aim is to catch them then I would think twice about putting one up as a deterrant/warning because then the scrotes will come especially to annoy you by "performing" in front of your camera without breaking and serious laws and/or simpy pull their hoods up or wear ski masks etc before they burgle you thus making later identification from CCTV very difficult.
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