View Full Version : Suppression of free speech
harper777
24-06-2003, 10:15
Having read about the demise of nthellworld.com it makes me wonder if we still live in a democracy the only reason i use ntl is that i can get broadband otherwise i wouldnt have bothered to come back from sky something should tell ntl their product isnt perfect.The saying goes if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen!!!.Get your product right and nobody will have to complain quiite simple really. :mad:
Lord Nikon
24-06-2003, 10:26
I think their reality check bounced
Of course had NTL made better use of their customer services then there wouldn't be a need for such a site in the first place.
Enterian
24-06-2003, 11:37
I can't help feeling that the 'community' site will be staffed by the standard call centre staff, who will be very polite and take all the details, but be unable to help themselves but will 'look into it and get back to you'.
Of course that will be the last you ever hear!
Enterian
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
I think their reality check bounced
Thats good :D:D:D
orangebird
24-06-2003, 13:13
Originally posted by Andre
Well summed up. :tu:
How about you give it a chance first - It could be really good?
Originally posted by orangebird
How about you give it a chance first - It could be really good?
It might, but then years of painful experience say it probably won't be.
Ntl themselves have confirmed that only level-3 techs will be staffing the 'community' boards. And if there already aren't enough of them to answer the phones, how are there going to be enough of them if they have to start patrolling a website as well?
They claimed that in buying nthellworld.com they wanted to create 'nthelpworld' but they didn't actually buy in any expertise in the transaction. The help on the ntl forums on the old .com site was already provided in no small measure by ntl staff - and many of them will not be allowed to give advice on the new community site as they are the wrong kind of employee.
Ntl has said they are hoping that call centre volumes will drop as a result of this measure, which shows the real reason behind this. It's a bean-counting exercise. I'd be willing to bet (were I a betting man) that if call centre volumes drop, so will the level of staffing in the call centres, regardless of how many hits the community site gets.
Enterian
24-06-2003, 13:32
Originally posted by orangebird
How about you give it a chance first - It could be really good?
Sorry Orangebird, but as someone who has been promised things by NTL in the past that never materialised I no longer have any faith in them.
Enterian
Free speech will never be suppressed by ntl - they can close the .com site but they have no control over this one.
http://www.net4nowt.com/isp_news/news_article.asp?News_ID=999
http://www.mirror.co.uk/amysi/
Originally posted by Jamie
Free speech will never be suppressed by ntl - they can close the .com site but they have no control over this one.
http://www.net4nowt.com/isp_news/news_article.asp?News_ID=999
http://www.mirror.co.uk/amysi/
Hurrah!
Have you guys sent a press release to BBC News online yet? That was where I learned about nthw.com, in an article by Nick Higham. You might try to get Bill Thomson to waffle about free speech on the 'net in his weekly 'Billblog', he loves all that stuff. He might be persuaded to do a 'you can't gag free speech, lookwhat happened to nthw' type blog.
Hi towny
Could you send me the email addresses for Nick and Bill please ?. Don't post them on the site because they'll get collected by bots. Thanks.
Jamie
handyman
24-06-2003, 14:40
Taken from Amys i
But for those who wish to rail against the firm, hope is at hand... in the form of NTHellworld.co.uk, a virtually identical site, set up by former moderators of NTHellworld.com
:eek: :p :D
Richard M
24-06-2003, 14:45
Originally posted by handyman
Taken from Amys i
:eek: :p :D
See this thread for more info.
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=301
Originally posted by Jamie
Free speech will never be suppressed by ntl - they can close the .com site but they have no control over this one.
http://www.net4nowt.com/isp_news/news_article.asp?News_ID=999
So would a certain Peter Harris be one of the mods on here, or is he just a journo who's really identified with this site?
Our members already include ......
We still have some work to do on the website......
We shall carry a main homepage where .....
;)
Richard M
24-06-2003, 14:52
No, they just published our press release with no modification.
Originally posted by Roger K
No, they just published our press release with no modification.
I wondered about that.
Sloppy journalism...
handyman
24-06-2003, 15:03
Originally posted by Roger K
See this thread for more info.
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=301
That'll teach me to post when I have not woken up yet :sleep:
Although I do love a good conspiracy.
People go funny over money.
Originally posted by DannyA
People go funny over money.
indeed and i would do whats right rather then take the money and run
money does not bring happiness it give you a short term buzz
and of course the moral issues :D
Originally posted by harper777
Having read about the demise of nthellworld.com it makes me wonder if we still live in a democracy the only reason i use ntl is that i can get broadband otherwise i wouldnt have bothered to come back from sky something should tell ntl their product isnt perfect.The saying goes if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen!!!.Get your product right and nobody will have to complain quiite simple really. :mad:
You've very little understanding of difference between a democracy and a business.
Should you post things here such as demands for the admin team to reveal who they are then you'll probably be shown the door. ;)
You are free to choose who you do business with, if you don't like ntl's service then you can always use a different ISP :wavey:
IMNSHO ntl need to take their on-line approach more professionally than the nthw.com site provides for, the new community will hopefully provide this.
Remember that ntl would have nothing to gain by shutting down nthw.com or ignoring customer opinion as sites like this tend to breed like cockroaches! :p :p
Originally posted by harper777
it makes me wonder if we still live in a democracy
No we don't.
If we did, voting slips would have a "none of the above" option.
in my opinion we dont need to know anything personal about the mod team all we need to know is are they not connected to ntl at all and whether they will 'sell out' :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Andre
That's not the case at all. :)
Now go on, you relly want to tell us don't you? :D
Originally posted by kronas
in my opinion we dont need to know anything personal about the mod team all we need to know is are they not connected to ntl at all and whether they will 'sell out' :rolleyes:
If this site doesn't establish an ongoing dialogue with ntl at some point then any complaints or suggestions about ntl's services will be wasted here. ntl would be delighted that people vent their anger/frustration here rather than actually email their regional director (for example) and complain directly. The argument being that people complain here, nothing gets done about it and ntl dont have to answer to customer's complaints.
So the question is, will the nthw team try and get a dialogue going with ntl at some point? I'd be happy to help with this.
Originally posted by obvious
If this site doesn't establish an ongoing dialogue with ntl at some point then any complaints or suggestions about ntl's services will be wasted here. ntl would be delighted that people vent their anger/frustration here rather than actually email their regional director (for example) and complain directly. The argument being that people complain here, nothing gets done about it and ntl dont have to answer to customer's complaints.
So the question is, will the nthw team try and get a dialogue going with ntl at some point? I'd be happy to help with this.
i agree with the above but really we should only know so much about the mods etc
there should be constructive dialogue but the site will progress and grow and in time it will happen (hopefully)
I think that they will, still out of sheer curiosity, be browseing here any way so they will get the message one way or another! :wavey:
Originally posted by Andre
Knapp, Hussain, and all the other bullshitters will soon know nthellworld.co.uk.
Oh, and bullshitters - if you're reading this, we know who you are.
Don't think that just because you're not a 'high level' bullshitter that you are safe, because you are not. :devsmoke:
thats the spirit :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:
th'engineer
25-06-2003, 19:00
They can only BS for so long to the customers and shareholders they will get burned in the end.
sooner rather than later!!:smokin:
Originally posted by Andre
The difference is we are not just here to provided solely a place to talk about ntl and their **** poor service.I dont understand. Could you explain? :)
We intend to expose ntl in every way/shape/form that we can, they will have no choice but to pay attention. I know it's early days but perhaps now is a good time to put ideas in for this site before things get cast in stone. Will you consider establishing a dialogue with ntl to get responses to customer complaints/suggestions?
Thanks
Hi..I have to agree with the views that whilst we can blast NTL thro this site,they do not have to read it ,or at least acknowlege that it exists..Surely a concentrated email attack from 300 plus member,possibly to 3/4 top bodies would cause some thinking at least...imagine the MD getting 300 emails..especially with his boast that he will always reply...Just a thought??!!
th'engineer
25-06-2003, 19:05
Originally posted by tabatha
Hi..I have to agree with the views that whilst we can blast NTL thro this site,they do not have to read it ,or at least acknowlege that it exists..Surely a concentrated email attack from 300 plus member,possibly to 3/4 top bodies would cause some thinking at least...imagine the MD getting 300 emails..especially with his boast that he will always reply...Just a thought??!!
They would follow the NTL line ignore it remember we are talking about the majority being BS merchants.
You give me the impresssion you thought they are customer focused :D
HI Didn`t know you knew me well enough to read my thoughts..and you dont..I made a suggestion,if this site is going to deteriate into a ****ging off session then I am off..
for some reason a word was censored,,retry..s.l.a.g.g.i.n.g.
Thanks Andre and good luck. I've been sitting on www.ntlusers.co.uk but I dont want to fragment the user community any further if at all possible.
I have seen copies of emails posted on .com from Mr Knapp and someone called Bill..??Strickland??,that had been recd by members of .com,specifically about the Cap...Forgeries??
th'engineer
25-06-2003, 19:55
Originally posted by tabatha
HI Didn`t know you knew me well enough to read my thoughts..and you dont..I made a suggestion,if this site is going to deteriate into a ****ging off session then I am off..
my aplogies
Undisputedtruth
25-06-2003, 20:10
Originally posted by Andre
The difference is we are not just here to provided solely a place to talk about ntl and their **** poor service.
We intend to expose ntl in every way/shape/form that we can, they will have no choice but to pay attention.
I've been doing this for the past 2 years. They couldn't handle me. So I can't see them handle the full wrath of nthellworld.co.uk
Undisputedtruth:devsmoke:
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I've been doing this for the past 2 years. They couldn't handle me. So I can't see them handle the full wrath of nthellworld.co.uk
Seeing as they've seemingly never really been bothered to improve their customer service, plus the fact that this site isn't for sale, I wonder what on earth they're going to do?
Originally posted by Russ D
Seeing as they've seemingly never really been bothered to improve their customer service, plus the fact that this site isn't for sale, I wonder what on earth they're going to do?
Run around like headless chickens spouting bullshit of course:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Jamie
Run around like headless chickens spouting bullshit of course:rolleyes:
As an ex-employee of the company, coupled together with the fact I've met many upper-management types at Hook due to my time at nthw.com, I can assure you that will never happen.....
*an entire nation coughs the word 'bullshit' @ Russ....
Andre saidWe are not going to just sit here and discuss ntl and their **** poor service, we intend to expose them (using whatever methods that we can)
I like the sound of it!
Hopefully exposing ntl's practices will not result in being jumped on by pro-employees over here like other sites.
If it's going on why shouldn't we discuss it, I have hated the pro-employees winging to the mods that this that and the other shouldn't be discussed because it's not any of the customers business:mad:
Tough, if it's true and not libel etc. There should be no reason we should not discuss it here. (OK mods?)
The underhanded goings on and employees morale in ntl do affect the customer, and I hope that employees will post annonymously on here to keep us all informed what the company is up to.:o
Russ D saidSeeing as they've seemingly never really been bothered to improve their customer service, plus the fact that this site isn't for sale, I wonder what on earth they're going to do?
Sorry for the double post.:D
I suspect that you have seen the light Russ! (sorry pun intended)
That sounds like fighting talk from you, and I am glad to see we all appear to be here with the same goals.
Help People with problems in our area of knowledge.
Make friends and friendly chat/banter with one another,
Let people know the truth about ntl.
Spread the Word (sorry again):cool:
Originally posted by Escapee
That sounds like fighting talk from you, and I am glad to see we all appear to be here with the same goals.
I'm not looking for a fight with NTL - I'm just here to make a stand against their traditionally poor CS. I'm aware that not every associate/department is as bad as this - indeed when someone from NTL gets it right or goes above and beyond the call of duty I'll always post it on the forum (as I've done on nthw.com) but when they get it wrong - and they will get it wrong - I want that also to be front page news.
Russ D saidI'm not looking for a fight with NTL
That was purely a figure of speech from me, and not to be taken word for word.;)
I agree that ntl has employees that do a great job, I still know many people working at ntl and they generally fall into the following categories.
1) The ones who go the extra mile for a customer.
2) The ones who used to go the extra mile but not any more, they have now been ground down by bad treatment and poor morale.
3) The employee without the necessary skills for the job, taken on by a clueless manager.
4) The employee who just doesn't care one bit about helping.
I think the majority that I know from ntl to be fair are in the first two categories, leaning towards the second these days.
Hi th`engineer..Accepted and forgotten..A s**t day at the office,guess I jumped too quickly..appologies from this end
Florence
25-06-2003, 21:44
Originally posted by Mark W
So would a certain Peter Harris be one of the mods on here, or is he just a journo who's really identified with this site?
;)
The only control NTL have over such as Net4nowt and ISPreview is if members post in a slanderous manner leaving the forums open to legal action
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