View Full Version : Sex & Religion
Why is it that all major organised religions seem to find the subject of sex and all matters relating to it a stumbling block?
*Pulls up a chair and awaits developments* :disturbd:
dilli-theclaw
28-05-2005, 11:16
*Pulls up a chair and awaits developments* :disturbd:
Can I have a seat too ?
I'm awaiting world war three ;):)
Can I have a seat too ?
I'm awaiting world war three ;):)
by the way - that's a nice looking avatar ;)
paulyoung666
28-05-2005, 11:22
is there any chairs left guys , i reckon this is going to be a cracker :D :D :D
paulyoung666
28-05-2005, 11:26
What about the Hindu's?
what about them :confused:
Weren't they resposible for the temple at Angkor Wat? No sign of any religious edicts there:blush:
EDIT You will also note the very neat side step of this issue:p:
I'm awaiting world war three ;):)
<arms the photon torpedoes ready> :angel:
Weren't they resposible for the temple at Angkor Wat? No sign of any religious edicts there:blush:
EDIT You will also note the very neat side step of this issue:p:
AFAIK there are not many erotic images at Angkor, which is in Cambodia and Buddhist, but yes, there are many Hindu temples with quite explicit erotic images.
BTW: I see a nice spot for my recliner next to Ramrod and Dilli. Beer anyone? ;)
Why is it that all major organised religions seem to find the subject of sex and all matters relating to it a stumbling block?
Initially it might be an idea for you to elaborate on your perception of sex and religion and which faiths you're referring to, and what tenets/practices have led you to describe it as a 'stumbling block'.
allieyoung666
28-05-2005, 12:01
Anyone want popcorn!!! and beer, is that the missus dilly!
AFAIK there are not many erotic images at Angkor, which is in Cambodia and Buddhist, but yes, there are many Hindu temples with quite explicit erotic images.But it started (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angkor_Wat) off (http://www.sacred-destinations.com/cambodia/angkor-wat.htm) as a temple to Vishnu, but then changed to Buddha.
But it started (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angkor_Wat) off (http://www.sacred-destinations.com/cambodia/angkor-wat.htm) as a temple to Vishnu, but then changed to Buddha.
Ah, fair enough. However, as far as I know, there are few, if any, erotic images there. I don't recall being amazed by the erotic images at any of the temples there. (I'd visit again at the drop of a hat though).
Raistlin
28-05-2005, 12:31
/pulls up a chair, cracks open a beer, and gets comfortable
Well, I'm already wearing the flame-proof suit.
I get the feeling that this thread is likely to be short lived but I'm willing to start a book if anybody wants to lay bets on how short.....
I don't see why anyone should assume this thread will get nasty - someone is asking a question and I'm sure those with the correct knowledge will reply :shrug:
I don't see why anyone should assume this thread will get nasty
Whilst past performance is not *necessarily* a guide to the future... :erm: :disturbd:
Could someone pass the Twiglets... :)
ScaredWebWarrior
28-05-2005, 12:44
Why is it that all major organised religions seem to find the subject of sex and all matters relating to it a stumbling block?
Have you got an example of what you mean?
I think all the major religions have teachings with respect to human reproductive activity and the morals surrounding them. Doesn't seem to me they're stumbling.
Unless you mean they're stumbling because they don't just let people do whatever and never mind the consequences?
Whilst past performance is not *necessarily* a guide to the future... :erm: :disturbd:
As long as all contributers respect the fact that others may have different beliefs to their own and this does not make them inferior or superior in any way. Plus keeping in mind that making offensive comments then hiding behind "sorry but that's just my opinion" is not acceptable, then this thread should stay fine.
This is not aimed at anyone in particular.
I get the feeling that this thread is likely to be short lived but I'm willing to start a book if anybody wants to lay bets on how short.....
As sex is a touchy subject in the first place (it needs a toung in cheek icon here), combining with religion you could well be right.
What would happen if politics was thrown in as well:Yikes:
I think that the problem that many religions have with sex is that they (or their earthly representatives) want/wanted to control many aspects of their adherents lives. Sex is just a bit too much fun and therefore it's use must be controlled................ie. we should get out 'jollies' in a church/mosque etc......not in the bedroom--lest we start to ignore religion.
allieyoung666
28-05-2005, 15:34
It isnt vert exciting so far, I would join in but I have a paper to finish and it has to be done for Tuesday, let me know how it goes!!!!
I think you'll find it's mainly post victorian christianity that has a problem with sex rather than major religions.
To my knowledge Mohammed wrote in the Koran that the woman's enjoyment is as important, if not more important, than the man's.
Judaism, sex is very important as they were commanded to go forth and multiply by their god, hence why Rabbi's and orthadox jews generally have large families.
With catholacism, originally priests were only meant to be celibate on the sabbath, but a pope came along and changed it and no one thought to change it back after he'd popped his cloggs.
I think you'll find it's mainly post victorian christianity that has a problem with sex rather than major religions.
Surprise surprise.....
What 'problem' was that?
Whilst past performance is not *necessarily* a guide to the future... :erm: :disturbd:
Could someone pass the Twiglets... :)if there's twiglets about i'll have some please, ta
fireman328
28-05-2005, 15:44
Alaister Crowley had a very open mind to religion and sex........
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
Discuss
Alaister Crowley had a very open mind to religion and sex........
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
Discuss
That has no restrictions?
Alaister Crowley had a very open mind to religion and sex........
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
Discuss
that's obviously flawed :td:. Disregarding the fact that Crowley was a Heroin addled prat, that statement opens up the door to pervs and wierdos. e.g. if a child abuser decides on an action - then he/she is justified in that action for the simple reason that they thought of it
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I think you'll find it's mainly post victorian christianity that has a problem with sex rather than major religions.
To my knowledge Mohammed wrote in the Koran that the woman's enjoyment is as important, if not more important, than the man's.
Judaism, sex is very important as they were commanded to go forth and multiply by their god, hence why Rabbi's and orthadox jews generally have large families.
With catholacism, originally priests were only meant to be celibate on the sabbath, but a pope came along and changed it and no one thought to change it back after he'd popped his cloggs.
hmm. The sort of thing I was getting at was female (and male to some extent) mutilation and the whole sort of unsaid "guilt thing". Even when they teach it in schools it has that sort of pythonesque meaning of life quality about it
that's obviously flawed :td:. Disregarding the fact that Crowley was a Heroin addled prat, that statement opens up the door to pervs and wierdos. e.g. if a child abuser decides on an action - then he/she is justified in that action for the simple reason that they thought of it
Aha! He's back!
Initially it might be an idea for you to elaborate on your perception of sex and religion and which faiths you're referring to, and what tenets/practices have led you to describe it as a 'stumbling block'.
Aha! He's back!
Yeah - had to nip to the shops, sorry about that
No probs! So, to answer my question...? :)
No probs! So, to answer my question...? :)
I thought I did a couple of posts back :confused:
I must have missed that, which post?
hmm. The sort of thing I was getting at was female (and male to some extent) mutilation and the whole sort of unsaid "guilt thing". Even when they teach it in schools it has that sort of pythonesque meaning of life quality about it
Well male circumcision was a sign that you were one of the chosen ones of god, part of the covenant (Paul, being Roman and intact didn't want the snip so managed to argue that the covenant had been broken so christians didn't need the snip)
Female circumcision is a cultural thing not religious. Mohammed was asked and asked about it by people who wanted Allah's blessing, unfortunately rather than say no don't do it, he just said "if you must do it, try to make it painless"
Russ, the point I was trying to make was that people's "don't talk about sex" type issues comes more from victorian society than religion, as such, mainstream (ie CoE and Catholic) christian religions have continued this.
Russ, the point I was trying to make was that people's "don't talk about sex" type issues comes more from victorian society than religion, as such, mainstream (ie CoE and Catholic) christian religions have continued this.
Ok now I understand - the impression I had from your original comments was that it was Christianityas a whole from that era which perpetuated the attitude.
Ok now I understand - the impression I had from your original comments was that it was Christianityas a whole from that era which perpetuated the attitude.
Nah just the mainstream sects like CoE and Catholicism, it's part of the reason why African christians are so anti acceptance of homosexuals etc as their religion was brought to them during the colonial period, when colonists/missionaries had the same views.
In the west, we've had decades of social change making such things pretty much acceptable, in the 3rd world they've got more important things to think about like how to survive and making sure after death they go somewhere nice, so they're less likely to question what they've been taught religiously.
Well male circumcision was a sign that you were one of the chosen ones of god
peer pressure possibly
peer pressure possibly
I thought it was done mainly these days in hot countries for health reasons.
I did have a South African (Zulu) girlfriend, and they have somne very strange customs and practices down below. :Yikes:
I thought it was done mainly these days in hot countries for health reasons.
I did have a South African (Zulu) girlfriend, and they have somne very strange customs and practices down below. :Yikes:
do you mean "down below" as in South Africa, or are we talking anatomy?
do you mean "down below" as in South Africa, or are we talking anatomy?
Anatomy !
You could probably find out by Googling, I am not going to risk a ban by posting the info and upsetting the squeamish.
Anatomy !
You could probably find out by Googling, I am not going to risk a ban by posting the info and upsetting the squeamish.
Give us a clue then - or a link :dunce:
Give us a clue then - or a link :dunce:
I couldn't find a link.
Parts of the female organ are stretched from a young age, I will not go into detail but it's the stranges thing I have ever experienced. Apparently husbands will not consider a woman for a wife without this, and one with this is regarded as a prize and worth more head of cattle than one without.
I am not saying any more for fear of a ban.
She told me that young males are encouraged to do exactly the same, with their organs I guess thats where the conclusion about big bits came from :D
I guess thats where the conclusion about big bits came from :D
what conclusion was that then?
what conclusion was that then?
You trying to get into trouble!
I was refering to the comments often made that certain parts of a black man are larger then a white man. :disturbd:
I was however told by someone who should know that this is absolute rubbish. :tu:
You trying to get into trouble!
I was refering to the comments often made that certain parts of a black man are larger then a white man. :disturbd:
I was however told by someone who should know that this is absolute rubbish. :tu:
hmm. I see, they don't have larger feet as I suspected. Whilst on the search for south african things via google I discovered this http://www.nature.ca/notebooks/english/ostrich.htm
They don't bury their heads in sand at all. The phrase is just used in business meettings, politics and committees
allieyoung666
28-05-2005, 17:25
OHHHHH seems to be heating up nicely!!!, has anyone got any peanuts!!
I couldn't find a link.
Parts of the female organ are stretched from a young age, I will not go into detail but it's the stranges thing I have ever experienced. Apparently husbands will not consider a woman for a wife without this, and one with this is regarded as a prize and worth more head of cattle than one without.
I am not saying any more for fear of a ban.
She told me that young males are encouraged to do exactly the same, with their organs I guess thats where the conclusion about big bits came from :D
wait a minute though, do these modifications to the physical anatomy have any religious overtones or undertones to them
Could someone pass the Twiglets... :)if there's twiglets about i'll have some please, ta
Here you go, I'll trade you for the plate of sausage rolls.
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Alaister Crowley had a very open mind to religion and sex........
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
Discuss
He missed out "An it harm no other..."
Alternatively: "Don't do unto others as you would have them do unto you, as their preferences may differ."
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OHHHHH seems to be heating up nicely!!!, has anyone got any peanuts!!
/me lobs the packet over
Who's got the crisps?
Incog gets out the deckchair and sangria.... :angel:
Err..Graham do you sell flame retardent knickers by the way? :erm:
Incog gets out the deckchair and sangria.... :angel:
We really ought to light the barbie (No, not the plastic doll!! :D )
Err..Graham do you sell flame retardent knickers by the way? :erm:
Best way to stop the catching light is just to not wear them...! :naughty:
ok maybe i am being dumb, or just overly tired.... but i still don't see the point of this thread?... there is four pages and yet i still don't know what the original question in post one was really eluding to???
I think the question was why do the major religions (even though we haven't yet found out which ones these are) consider sex to be a stumbling block (and we've not descovered any examples of this either).
ok maybe i am being dumb, or just overly tired.... but i still don't see the point of this thread?... there is four pages and yet i still don't know what the original question in post one was really eluding to???
I was trying to illustrate the basic contradiction of the two things
ok maybe i am being dumb, or just overly tired.... but i still don't see the point of this thread?... there is four pages and yet i still don't know what the original question in post one was really eluding to???
the original post was about sex and religion by the OP who stated how religons control sex in many manners, abstinence etc and how people seem to follow it...
i think :erm:
I think the question was why do the major religions (even though we haven't yet found out which ones these are) consider sex to be a stumbling block (and we've not descovered any examples of this either).
yeah thanks russ i got that bit..... but i also get from your post as well that you don't really know either:erm:
does the poster mean why do chrisitans, for example, believe saving sex till marriage is the best option?
or the jewish beliefs on sex and stuff?
I think that the OP was asking too broad a question and maybe needs to narrow down to the exact point/s that they want to know. :erm:
the original post was about sex and religion by the OP who stated how religons control sex in many manners, abstinence etc and how people seem to follow it...
i think :erm:
op?
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I think that the OP was asking too broad a question and maybe needs to narrow down to the exact point/s that they want to know. :erm:
i kinda guess i was asking the same question as your making here
I was trying to illustrate the basic contradiction of the two things
What basic contradiction of which two things? :confused:
What basic contradiction of which two things? :confused:
the two things in the title post
Ok - but where is it stated/who says that they contradict?
the two things in the title post
can i just confirm are you saying that sex and religion are incompatible?
Ok - but where is it stated/who says that they contradict?
I don't know where it is "stated" all I know is that it is fairly common knowledge
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can i just confirm are you saying that sex and religion are incompatible?
no
I don't know where it is "stated" all I know is that it is fairly common knowledge
Common knowledge to who? AFAIK I don't know anyone who considers any faith to view sex as a stumbling block :shrug:
no
fair enough.... i'm sorry if i sound pedantic, but what are you saying?
Common knowledge to who? AFAIK I don't know anyone who considers any faith to view sex as a stumbling block :shrug:
If they do they'd be pretty short of followers and their numbers would drop due to a falling birthrate. ;)
Common knowledge to who? AFAIK I don't know anyone who considers any faith to view sex as a stumbling block :shrug:
yeah - but you are referring to (I think) sex as the act of it. There's other perceptions of sex like the equality of the two types which is a stumbling block
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin sexus
1 : either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male
2 : the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of living things that are involved in reproduction by two interacting parents and that distinguish males and females
3 a : sexually motivated phenomena or behavior
yeah - but you are referring to (I think) sex as the act of it. There's other perceptions of sex like the equality of the two types which is a stumbling block
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin sexus
1 : either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male
2 : the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of living things that are involved in reproduction by two interacting parents and that distinguish males and females
3 a : sexually motivated phenomena or behavior
Aha! Now we're getting somewhere! :D
I thought you were referring to sex as in the the act of reproduction - you actually meant sex as in gender?
Aha! Now we're getting somewhere! :D
I thought you were referring to sex as in the the act of reproduction - you actually meant sex as in gender?
I mean both really
I mean both really
OK - so can I assume we've established that none of the 'major' faiths don't actually view sex as a stumbling block?
If you're talking about genders, you need to realise that in Biblical times (and also around the times that other faiths were formed) it was part of society that women were second class citizens, so it was the times, not the religion.
OK - so can I assume we've established that none of the 'major' faiths don't actually view sex as a stumbling block?
No
and as for the women thing it seems to me there's loads at this point in time who are oppressed etc often in the names of religions
No
OK we're going around in circles here - can you give any examples at all?
Incog wanders off, deckchair under arm now it's just another gender issue thing... :rolleyes:
Anyway Dr Who is on..
OK we're going around in circles here - can you give any examples at all?
ok then. Christianity,for example, does not specifically come right out and say that you are actually allowed to enjoy the act of procreation as far as I am given to understand.
ok then. Christianity,for example, does not specifically come right out and say that you are actually allowed to enjoy the act of procreation as far as I am given to understand.
If that was the case then there'd be very few of us left at all....
You may need to go an research this one a little better :shrug:
OK - so can I assume we've established that none of the 'major' faiths don't actually view sex as a stumbling block?
If you're talking about genders, you need to realise that in Biblical times (and also around the times that other faiths were formed) it was part of society that women were second class citizens, so it was the times, not the religion.
Actually, in biblical times women were not second class citizens, especially in the jewish faith where they are considered to be better at understanding god's wishes than men. According to judaism when moses went to chisel, i mean be given, the commandments, the women resisted the men who made the golden calf, for it was against god.
It wasn't until later, with catholicism and the treaty of nicea that they decided that women weren't worthy in the bible in order to give men power.
In islam, women are not second class citizens either, unfortunately, local cultural prejudices override the religion, hence why women in islamic countries tend to be treated as second class, it has nothing to do with religion.
I think the OP is working under several misconceptions about this topic, believing that cultural attitudes are actually religious.
Actually, in biblical times women were not second class citizens, especially in the jewish faith where they are considered to be better at understanding god's wishes than men.
Maybe not second class citizens then, but certainly not permitted to take positions of power.
I think the OP is working under several misconceptions about this topic, believing that cultural attitudes are actually religious.
It's not often I agree with you but on this occasion...perhaps yes.
If that was the case then there'd be very few of us left at all....
You may need to go an research this one a little better :shrug:
perhaps I phrased that wrongly - I meant it does not allude to any physical enjoyment - rather just kind of producing offspring in a kind of way and any thoughts in that direction are somehow sinful e.g it, the bible, often uses the phrase 'to know' with regard to this type of thing
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I think the OP is working under several misconceptions about this topic, believing that cultural attitudes are actually religious.
...but surely, cultural attitudes and religion are intwined and are in fact one and the same thing
perhaps I phrased that wrongly - I meant it does not allude to any physical enjoyment -
With respect it doesn't allude to enjoying the sunshine but I'm sure they did!
rather just kind of producing offspring in a kind of way and any thoughts in that direction are somehow sinful e.g it, the bible, often uses the phrase 'to know' with regard to this type of thing
Hmm, you've lost me again - can you give any examples/links?
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...but surely, cultural attitudes and religion are intwined and are in fact one and the same thing
The 'Chav' lifestyle is a culture, I wouldn't call it a bona fide religion, would you?
Hmm, you've lost me again - can you give any examples/links?
003:016 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and
thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children
by way of example
003:016 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and
thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children
by way of example
In context, that was because Adam and Eve disobeyed God and this was part of the punishment. The Bible should never be read in single or few verses and used as reference without taking in to account the whole chapter.
Would I be right if I rephrased your original question to why does Christianity not promote the notion of promiscious and wild sex?
In context, that was because Adam and Eve disobeyed God and this was part of the punishment. The Bible should never be read in single or few verses and used as reference without taking in to account the whole chapter.
yeah - but why punish? Indeed, why even put such a tree and fruit in the garden in the first place :(
yeah - but why punish? Indeed, why even put such a tree and fruit in the garden in the first place :(
that's all to do will free will, which has nowt to do with sex and religion surely??:confused:
yeah - but why punish?
Because they disobeyed a direct command.
Indeed, why even put such a tree and fruit in the garden in the first place :(
God gave Man perfect paradise and freedom to live in it - the apple tree was to remind Adam and Eve that they were answerable to Him.
Would I be right if I rephrased your original question to why does Christianity not promote the notion of promiscious and wild sex?
I wasn't talking about Christianity in particular - it was you that started off on that tack by demanding examples and drawing me into it.
that's all to do will free will, which has nowt to do with sex and religion surely??:confused:
:clap:
the apple tree was to remind Adam and Eve that they were answerable to Him.
anyway - I have heard that it was a pomegranate tree in reality, but they changed the fruit in the story as pomegranates were not that readily available at that point in time - people would not have understood what they were
I wasn't talking about Christianity in particular - it was you that started off on that tack by demanding examples and drawing me into it.
Forgive me but you were being pretty vague as others noticed and you were not giving us anything to go on.
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anyway - I have heard that it was a pomegranate tree in reality, but they changed the fruit in the story as pomegranates were not that readily available at that point in time
Riiiiight.....so have we now finished the subject of 'Sex and Religion'?
I wasn't talking about Christianity in particular - it was you that started off on that tack by demanding examples and drawing me into it.
So it should be "why doesn't religion promote wild and promiscious sex?" then?
So it should be "why doesn't religion promote wild and promiscious sex?" then?
not really no. I am off down the pizza restaurant to think about what has been said before making further comments
Nothing like a nice pizza to help in a discussion - in fact I might get one myself :D
Oh great, way to make me hungry!
And I'm trying to lose weight!
Oh great, way to make me hungry!
And I'm trying to lose weight!
too much sex perhaps ;)
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Nothing like a nice pizza to help in a discussion - in fact I might get one myself :D
she's still not ready - cah, women!
Incog wanders off, deckchair under arm now it's just another gender issue thing... :rolleyes:
Yeah and we don't want any more of those things round here...!
Anyway Dr Who is on..
Good, wasn't it?!
See you in the Dr Who thread...
If I understand correctly, you guys have spent about 7 pages establishing the topic of the thread. Nice... :)
that's all to do will free will
we would all like to free will.. :naughty: :naughty:
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