View Full Version : Is it me or ...
haven't there been many NTL Hell stories.
The problems over the last month or so that have been posted, have been sorted out by a quick response from Customer Services and the engineers.
The other questions have been with fine tuning, or messing about with PC configs.
So I ask again is it me or ..... are NTL getting better ??????
nighthawk
17-09-2003, 14:14
let me ask it another way... could they get any worse?
Originally posted by nighthawk
let me ask it another way... could they get any worse?
Now be fair, what evidence have you got that they are that bad at the moment ?
downquark1
17-09-2003, 14:23
Originally posted by Nemesis
haven't there been many NTL Hell stories.
The problems over the last month or so that have been posted, have been sorted out by a quick response from Customer Services and the engineers.
The other questions have been with fine tuning, or messing about with PC configs.
So I ask again is it me or ..... are NTL getting better ?????? I've been with 'NTL' since they were NYNEX. They have definately improved. Even if it has taken years and many unfulfilled 'promises' later. Well they haven't been so much unfullfilled, just years late;) They still have a long way to go though.
timewarrior2001
17-09-2003, 14:32
they are getting better, but they do need to sor tout some of the CS staff. Better training would make them more......i dunno what the word I am looking for is...........approachable? helpfull? If they all had the same details, and not left to make up excuses so their call quotas are high, the customer would beenfit immensly.
Oh yeah and to the guy at teesside CS that got a request for a DD mandate last night, thanks matey, myself and my partner are looking forward to the low user line rental.
Give yourself a pat on the back that was awesome CS.
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 21:04
Are NTL getting better? Does a Leopard chage it's spots?
At the moment if you post an anti NTL remark you're likely to get a rebuttal from the mods, get attacked by the proNTL mobs or have your remarks deleted. All the NTHELL stories have been removed because they put NTL in negative picture. Even though the stories may well be true. I have received PMs from other members who felt they were being hounded off the forums just because they expressed their views.
Here is my check list for if NTL is getting better.
Do NTL offer an uncapped NTL broadband services?
Do NTL communicate with all their customers in an professional, open and honest way?
Are customers in London informed honestly to when they are going to get broadband?
Are you able to speak to technical support or customer services within 30 seconds every time or at least most occasions?
Do NTL have a charter to answer all written communications within 14 days?
Do NTL offer free itemised billing in order for customer to check their bills for any mistakes?
Do NTL guarantee a problem free email service?
Are you able to speak to a supervisor when requested?
Do NTL ensures they check all possible faults at their end before sending an engineer to customer's premises?
Do NTL staff get customer care training?
The list is not exhaustive but where are the evidence of NTL getting better? :shrug:
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
At the moment if you post an anti NTL remark you're likely to get a rebuttal from the mods,
Erm, you do know you're on .co.uk right now??
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Are NTL getting better? Does a Leopard chage it's spots?
At the moment if you post an anti NTL remark you're likely to get a rebuttal from the mods, get attacked by the proNTL mobs or have your remarks deleted. All the NTHELL stories have been removed because they put NTL in negative picture. Even though the stories may well be true. I have received PMs from other members who felt they were being hounded off the forums just because they expressed their views.
Nonsense!!!
Take a look around there are many anti ntl posts about. What there isn't is anti-ntl posts that include an insult thrown in to other members. The problem with yourself is you do not know how to use a discussion forum, been banned from most of them haven't you? :rolleyes:
Lord Nikon
17-09-2003, 21:28
let's test the "anti NTL comments get flamed theory"
It is My opinion that barclay knapp and aizad hussein should be lined up against a wall and shot for considering / pseudoimplementing the cap. Especially since they can now use it as a somewhat pathetic excuse for not following in the TW idea of 2Mbit.
The CS phone system is a shambles and the TS phone menu system abysmal.
Ok, give it 5 minutes... if the post remains, and I haven't been flamed... then it is not quite as UDT claims
homealone
17-09-2003, 21:35
To honest NTL, in my (ex Diamond Cable), area, hasn't changed.
I don't get problems with tv, because I use Analogue. - 2 outages in 5 years or so - I can't complain - I moved from Sky Analogue, then, because I had to keep leaning out of the window with a brush to get a picture when it snowed.
I have 2 tv boxes - one downstairs, main telly, one upstairs, plugged into my PC.
I get a correct bill each month, calls are itemised for my 2 phone lines. Although, on Analogue, of course, I pay line rental. Local calls to NTL numbers are free after 18:00. I'm happy with that & can't be doing with call waiting & voice mail, etc.
Broadband, I share me & my son on the connection, 600k "silver" service, via a router. - yes there are issues with e-mail :mad: newsgroups:afire: - but, apart from the sense of humour required for the proxy servers, we manage ok, most of the time - that is £12.50 each, until he moves out!:cool:
apart from the second paragraph, with the usual pro/anti cr8p, I thought UDT's post argued the issues very well.
Pro/anti Ntl crap has been blown out of all proportion, and in my humble opinion it just detracts from the issues in hand, there is a thread over on .com now complaining about the e-mail and no one has been flamed for it (so far ;) ).
Its just a small group of hard liners that cause this sort of trouble, they should be ashamed of themselves, they really aren't helping 'the cause'.:(
oh, and to stay on topic, yes some things have improved but others have got worse. I've been trying to get at my Ntl email for the last hour without any luck :(
I have to say that NTL started off badly in my area*, but have improved massively.
They are a LOT better than the bunch of :******:s at Cable & Wireless.
* Note the "in my area" part, as the way they have treated London stinks
homealone
17-09-2003, 22:06
Originally posted by dellwear
Pro/anti Ntl crap has been blown out of all proportion, and in my humble opinion it just detracts from the issues in hand, there is a thread over on .com now complaining about the e-mail and no one has been flamed for it (so far ;) ).
Its just a small group of hard liners that cause this sort of trouble, they should be ashamed of themselves, they really aren't helping 'the cause'.:(
oh, and to stay on topic, yes some things have improved but others have got worse. I've been trying to get at my Ntl email for the last hour without any luck :(
think you are correct about email dellwear, I use mailwasher & it is telling me I can't login, next minute I can:erm:
I just think if its good, for me - it's good. I'm happy:smokin:
- if it's bad, I'll complain:(- that doesn't make me a "pro" or "anti" person - does it?). I prefer to be able to have an opinion based on the issue, rather than the expectation of my stereotype?
Gaz:)
Originally posted by homealone
if it's bad, I'll complain:(-
You bad bad Anti-Ntl Person, I'd better tell the lynch mob to go to yours next! :p LOL
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 22:12
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
Nonsense!!!
Take a look around there are many anti ntl posts about. What there isn't is anti-ntl posts that include an insult thrown in to other members. The problem with yourself is you do not know how to use a discussion forum, been banned from most of them haven't you? :rolleyes:
Like I said before, if you post a message putting NTL in a bad light you get the hassles from the proNTL mobs and certain moderators. The moderators do little to protect members who post anti NTL messages. It is not surprising, due to the frustrations caused by NTL, certain moderators and proNTL mobs behaviour, that individuals retaliate to the source of the attack. Others are just hounded of the board. Is this a way of saying NTL has improved it's service then think again? You may fool stupid people but you are not fooling me.
Okay, name me more than one forum I've been banned from Dr Plummer? The only site I've been banned from is Digitalspy. You may wish to note that Frank, Craig and Neil (mods on nthw.com) have also been banned from Digitalspy. So Dr Plummer enough of your BS and start moderating fairly!!!
hoggyspuds
17-09-2003, 22:12
Been an NTL customer for over 4 years. Ive been really happy with the package and never experienced any problems apart from the e-mail thing a few months ago. Started off on 56k and then 600k. Currently on the 1mb fat pipe. Never had a problem with billing, tv, or internet access. Maybe it's the luck of the irish! I honestly can't knock them.......maybe I should go touch wood just now!.....lol
Originally posted by hoggyspuds
Been an NTL customer for over 4 years. Ive been really happy with the package and never experienced any problems apart from the e-mail thing a few months ago. Started off on 56k and then 600k. Currently on the 1mb fat pipe. Never had a problem with billing, tv, or internet access. Maybe it's the luck of the irish! I honestly can't knock them.......maybe I should go touch wood just now!.....lol
Make it a big piece :p
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Like I said before, if you post a message putting NTL in a bad light you get the hassles from the proNTL mobs and certain moderators. The moderators do little to protect members who post anti NTL messages. It is not surprising, due to the frustrations caused by NTL, certain moderators and proNTL mobs behaviour, that individuals retaliate to the source of the attack. Others are just hounded of the board. Is this a way of saying NTL has improved it's service then think again? You may fool stupid people but you are not fooling me.
Are you selectively being blind here ? - look up the thread and I suggest you READ the anti ntl posts submitted from other members. I suggest you take your all so tiresome 'proNTL mob' phrase and shove it where the sun does not shine. Cheers!
homealone
17-09-2003, 22:26
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Like I said before, if you post a message putting NTL in a bad light you get the hassles from the proNTL mobs and certain moderators. The moderators do little to protect members who post anti NTL messages. It is not surprising, due to the frustrations caused by NTL, certain moderators and proNTL mobs behaviour, that individuals retaliate to the source of the attack. Others are just hounded of the board. Is this a way of saying NTL has improved it's service then think again? You may fool stupid people but you are not fooling me.
Okay, name me more than one forum I've been banned from Dr Plummer? The only site I've been banned from is Digitalspy. You may wish to note that Frank, Craig and Neil (mods on nthw.com) have also been banned from Digitalspy. So Dr Plummer enough of your BS and start moderating fairly!!!
to be fair, I also thought you were "banned" on com - is it other than that?
- QUIT THE PRO/ANTI UDT, sorry mods, but how many times do we have to say it - if you were being "hounded" UDT, imo you would have been off "here", by now. I really do think you are getting confused about in which site you are posting!;)
Gaz
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 22:30
At the moment I feeling hounded here by the usual names Dr Plummer and homealone.
homealone
17-09-2003, 22:35
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
At the moment I feeling hounded here by the usual names Dr Plummer and homealone.
excuse me - you have a right of reply, other than abuse - would you care to exercise that option, or retreat behind your clichÃÃâ€*’©'s?
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
At the moment I feeling hounded here by the usual names Dr Plummer and homealone.
Hounded or the fact that your facts are being proven wrong, there is a difference. When you post nonsense like 'At the moment if you post an anti NTL remark you're likely to get a rebuttal from the mods, get attacked by the proNTL mobs or have your remarks deleted.
You have to expect a reply to that when you post contentious stuff like that. It is not you being hounded its a discussion, something you have a problem grasping.
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 22:41
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
Hounded or the fact that your facts are being proven wrong, there is a difference. When you post nonsense like 'At the moment if you post an anti NTL remark you're likely to get a rebuttal from the mods, get attacked by the proNTL mobs or have your remarks deleted.
You have to expect a reply to that when you post contentious stuff like that. It is not you being hounded its a discussion, something you have a problem grasping.
I've also witnessed the overreactions of the mods on Rippedoff. He was frustrated and you just add to his frustrations by blaming him for everything without thinking about the history. Ripedoff should be thanked for his persistence and patiences over the last 2 years.
Shoving it up by a hole is not a language that should be used in discussion. Are you running out of your so called facts? I think you are as you clearly unable to reply to the other messages in my post. Dr Plummer, are your colleagus proud of your behaviour? I think not. Also saying that I was banned from most forums is a downright lie.
homealone
17-09-2003, 22:42
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
At the moment I feeling hounded here by the usual names Dr Plummer and homealone.
you are just pi**ed 'cos we stayed up as late as you - and are replying direct, instead of 8 hours later - like I said (imo) you need a major change of strategy, to get a valid point across. If you feel I have "hounded" you, then report my post(s).
but fgs udt forget pro/anti as an argument, because it is not in the scope for the discussion!
Stick to the effin issues>
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I've also witnessed the overreactions of the mods on Rippedoff. He was frustrated and you just add to his frustrations by blaming him for everything without think about the history.
You witnessed jack all dude, its all in your head! :)
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 22:51
Originally posted by homealone
you are just pi**ed 'cos we stayed up as late as you - and are replying direct, instead of 8 hours later - like I said (imo) you need a major change of strategy, to get a valid point across. If you feel I have "hounded" you, then report my post(s).
but fgs udt forget pro/anti as an argument, because it is not in the scope for the discussion!
Stick to the effin issues>
Obviously you did not understand my last post. MODERATORS DO NOT MODERATE FAIRLY.
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 22:53
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
You witnessed jack all dude, its all in your head! :)
A wonderful example on great moderations :rolleyes:
I made of sterner stuff and I treat you pathetic insults with a pinch of salt. I shall repeat my last question: DO YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE PROUD OF YOUR BEHAVIOUR?
homealone
17-09-2003, 23:02
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Obviously you did not understand my last post. MODERATORS DO NOT MODERATE FAIRLY.
I have no interest in that comment - it is not germane to the discussion.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Obviously you did not understand my last post. MODERATORS DO NOT MODERATE FAIRLY.
UDT, If the mods on here are not fair, how come your posts complaining about them are not deleted? You have even *insulted* people (particularly those you call "pro NTL mobs") and not had posts deleted. How is that unfair to you? Because people dare answer you back? Well, this is a discussion forum, so you have to expect some discussion.
You do raise valid points about bad service on NTL, but the way you raise them gets peoples backs up, and a person that is p**ed off with a customer is less likely to help that customer.
Still, I have told you this before, and expect the same response I got last time.
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 23:10
Originally posted by Russ D
Erm, you do know you're on .co.uk right now??
Russ, do you approve of Dr Plummer's behaviour? Is this the standard of nthw.co.uk moderation?
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Russ, do you approve of Dr Plummer's behaviour? Is this the standard of nthw.co.uk moderation?
How did this thread get from a genuine question about customer service at ntl, to a mod-baiting match?
And while I'm on, which truth is undisputed? No, honest, I'm curious...
hoggyspuds
17-09-2003, 23:17
hand bags ladies?
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 23:20
Originally posted by scastle
UDT, If the mods on here are not fair, how come your posts complaining about them are not deleted? You have even *insulted* people (particularly those you call "pro NTL mobs") and not had posts deleted. How is that unfair to you? Because people dare answer you back? Well, this is a discussion forum, so you have to expect some discussion.
You do raise valid points about bad service on NTL, but the way you raise them gets peoples backs up, and a person that is p**ed off with a customer is less likely to help that customer.
Still, I have told you this before, and expect the same response I got last time.
If some of my posts are deleted - how would you know?
Since when calling someone proNTL is an insult? It is a statement on their stance in relation to NTL and nothing else. This "insult" is being taken to extremeness and I think the reason is because it highlights their behaviour. Sorry, you will have to do a lot more explaining on this insult. Next you be saying that grown up people has been reduce to tears.:rolleyes: Next time I insult a politician by stating whether they are on the far right or far left of the party.:rolleyes: Get a grip.
homealone
17-09-2003, 23:21
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Russ, do you approve of Dr Plummer's behaviour? Is this the standard of nthw.co.uk moderation?
squeeze me - what has Russ got to do with Dr Plummers "behaviour"
- he expressed an opinion - you can learn or form your own, what changed?
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 23:24
Originally posted by homealone
I have no interest in that comment - it is not germane to the discussion.
I guess it is not congruent with your previous comments. You're right, you're not interested in the unfairness of moderations on these boards.
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 23:27
Originally posted by homealone
squeeze me - what has Russ got to do with Dr Plummers "behaviour"
- he expressed an opinion - you can learn or form your own, what changed?
Are you not aware that Russ is also a mod? Did you not notice the word "colleague". I simply asked the question, do Russ approved of Dr Plummer's behaviour?
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Are you not aware that Russ is also a mod? Did you not notice the word "colleague". I simply asked the question, do Russ approved of Dr Plummer's behaviour?
What the flippin'eck has this got to do with customer service standards at ntl?
And BTW 'proNTL' is not insulting. But implying there is something somehow surly or underhand about someone by calling them part of the 'proNTL mob' ... now that's insulting.
And PS, which truth is undisputed?
homealone
17-09-2003, 23:35
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I guess it is not congruent with your previous comments. You're right, you're not interested in the unfairness of moderations on these boards.
I am genuinely interested in the undisputed truth - but, in my experience, that is not anything to do with you, sorry. I will makeup my own mind. - you ARE too negative!
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
If some of my posts are deleted - how would you know?
I wouldn't know if I hadn't seen them. However, I have seen you make some pretty insulting remarks to people (even mods). Surely if the mods were treating you unfairly, ALL your negative posts would be deleted (not just some, which is what you appear to be implying).
Since when calling someone proNTL is an insult? It is a statement on their stance in relation to NTL and nothing else. This "insult" is being taken to extremeness and I think the reason is because it highlights their behaviour. Sorry, you will have to do a lot more explaining on this insult. Next you be saying that grown up people has been reduce to tears.:rolleyes: Next time I insult a politician by stating whether they are on the far right or far left of the party.:rolleyes: Get a grip.
Hey, I've got a grip. Calling someone pro or anti NTL is not an insult. I have seen you call people you consider pro NTL worse things though.
BTW, maybe you should get a grip. You're feeling hounded by Dr Plummer and homealone? There are more important things in life to worry about than what someone types in a forum.
Also, bear in mind, I'm not the one complaining about unfair moderation because people are not agreeing with me.
homealone
17-09-2003, 23:46
There are more important things in life to worry about than what someone types in a forum.
A* stu
- :erm:
Originally posted by homealone
A* stu
- :erm:
ditto, UDT you need to get out more and stop crying about being "hounded".:rolleyes:
timewarrior2001
17-09-2003, 23:55
I've made some scathing remarks for and against NTL. Never had a post edited, deleted or any kind of warning from a mod. Hell people will remember the big thread about a certain advert, that got quite heated in places, no one fell out with one another as far as I know.
However, UDT has shot him/herself in the foot by making these remarks and having them left there. There simply is no unfairness on .co.uk
However back to the topic please.
As I stated earlier, I beleive NTL have improved, not a great deal but they are heading towards the right direction now.
There are still certain elements within the group that need to be weeded out. All this upper management shifting around isnt particularly good, we , the customers, need to know that the perosn in charge is concerned about us. Not about how many millions he will earn if they win or lose.
Undisputedtruth
17-09-2003, 23:58
Originally posted by scastle
I wouldn't know if I hadn't seen them. However, I have seen you make some pretty insulting remarks to people (even mods). Surely if the mods were treating you unfairly, ALL your negative posts would be deleted (not just some, which is what you appear to be implying).
Hey, I've got a grip. Calling someone pro or anti NTL is not an insult. I have seen you call people you consider pro NTL worse things though.
BTW, maybe you should get a grip. You're feeling hounded by Dr Plummer and homealone? There are more important things in life to worry about than what someone types in a forum.
Also, bear in mind, I'm not the one complaining about unfair moderation because people are not agreeing with me.
When I do make insulting remarks it is because
a) They attack me first.
b) Mods failure to deal with insulting remarks aimed at me.
I do not report posts which I do not agree with. However, I've reported posts where there were clear personal attacks or racist comments being made
Undisputedtruth
18-09-2003, 00:02
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
However, UDT has shot him/herself in the foot by making these remarks and having them left there. There simply is no unfairness on .co.uk
That is the whole idea Timewarrior. They deleted some of my post and deliberately not delete my complaints in order to mislead the viewer.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
That is the whole idea Timewarrior. They deleted some of my post and deliberately not delete my complaints in order to mislead the viewer.
Your only misleading yourself, you did report a post where you thought it was racist, but the post in question was not, but you being you, like to argue that red is really black.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
When I do make insulting remarks it is because
a) They attack me first.
b) Mods failure to deal with insulting remarks aimed at me.
You see again this falls down into your assumption that because people do not agree with your views, you think they are insulting you but in actual fact it is a discussion, a view from a member. You then reply back to this member with an insult, so yeah dam right your post is going to be edited. So stop trying to make out that I or even some of the members on here are out to get you.
dialanothernumb
18-09-2003, 00:57
Is this guy UDT a troll? Or just a bit slow and agressive?
Undisputedtruth
18-09-2003, 02:08
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
Your only misleading yourself, you did report a post where you thought it was racist, but the post in question was not, but you being you, like to argue that red is really black.
The post was racist. The victim of that post also thought it was racist. I very much doubt you know what constitutes a racist remark. If the victim perceives the post as being racist then you are not in position to say otherwise. I very much doubt you or any of your fellow moderators understands the issues of racism.
You see again this falls down into your assumption that because people do not agree with your views, you think they are insulting you but in actual fact it is a discussion, a view from a member. You then reply back to this member with an insult, so yeah dam right your post is going to be edited. So stop trying to make out that I or even some of the members on here are out to get you.
Obviously, Dr Plummer, you did not understand what I wrote in post #43.
LET ME REPEAT IT AGAIN.
"I do not report posts which I do not agree with. However, I've reported posts where there were clear personal attacks or racist comments being made"
Dr Plummer, a number of your posts contains untruths so your running commentary on the situations is very unlikely to be accurate. You tried to mislead everyone into thinking I was a banned from most forums. Outrageous rubbish. Still no apologies from you or is this part of your so called discussions where everything you say is meant to be the truth of truth and where everything I say is not worthy? Dr Plummer perhaps it is high time that you should wise up and try a bit of fair moderation. I'm not asking you to agree with my discussions but to apply fair moderation to all rather than giving favours to the proNTL mob. Is this concept too difficult for you to understand?
Russ, where are you? Keeping quiet. I'm still waiting on an answer from you, do you approve of Dr Plummer's behaviour?
Originally posted by dialanothernumb
Is this guy UDT a troll? Or just a bit slow and agressive?
Neither - I'm not influenced by the BS and nor will I be bullied into thinking the NTL is a good company. Let's face it, no one could ever argue about my check list post #6 to ascertain the supposed improvement in NTL. they could only go off topic.
Here is my check list for if NTL is getting better.
Do NTL offer an uncapped NTL broadband services?
Do NTL communicate with all their customers in an professional, open and honest way?
Are customers in London informed honestly to when they are going to get broadband?
Are you able to speak to technical support or customer services within 30 seconds every time or at least most occasions?
Do NTL have a charter to answer all written communications within 14 days?
Do NTL offer free itemised billing in order for customer to check their bills for any mistakes?
Do NTL guarantee a problem free email service?
Are you able to speak to a supervisor when requested?
Do NTL ensures they check all possible faults at their end before sending an engineer to customer's premises?
Do NTL staff get customer care training?
The list is not exhaustive but where are the evidence of NTL getting better?
Hey mods, why don't you discuss my list of questions instead of getting your knickers in a twist over your unfairness of your moderation.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
The post was racist. The victim of that post also thought it was racist. I very much doubt you know what constitutes a racist remark. If the victim perceives the post as being racist then you are not in position to say otherwise. I very much doubt you or any of your fellow moderators understands the issues of racism.
And just because rippedoff shouts 'racist' makes it a racist comment?
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Obviously, Dr Plummer, you did not understand what I wrote in post #43.
Another bad assumption.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Dr Plummer, a number of your posts contains untruths so your running commentary on the situations is very unlikely to be accurate. You tried to mislead everyone into thinking I was a banned from most forums. Outrageous rubbish. Still no apologies from you or is this part of your so called discussions where everything you say is meant to be the truth of truth and where everything I say is not worthy? Dr Plummer perhaps it is high time that you should wise up and try a bit of fair moderation. I'm not asking you to agree with my discussions but to apply fair moderation to all rather than giving favours to the proNTL mob. Is this concept too difficult for you to understand?
What favours? what 'proNTL mob'? I know of no such group.
Cannot resist using that phrase can you? Still used though without justification. I think I have been more than fair to listen to you and tonight you came in this thread and claimed that all anti-ntl posts get deleted by some of the proNTL mods, which I and other members have more or less said is utter nonsense.
Undisputedtruth
18-09-2003, 03:17
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
And just because rippedoff shouts 'racist' makes it a racist comment?
If you knew anything about racism then you would understand. Rippedoff, perceived the remark as racist so therefore it is. To say it is not is poor judgement or is it because Rippedoff does not tow the NTL line?
What favours? what 'proNTL mob'? I know of no such group.
Cannot resist using that phrase can you? Still used though without justification. I think I have been more than fair to listen to you and tonight you came in this thread and claimed that all anti-ntl posts get deleted by some of the proNTL mods, which I and other members have more or less said is utter nonsense. See no evil, hear no evil.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
If you knew anything about racism then you would understand. Rippedoff, perceived the remark as racist so therefore it is. To say it is not is poor judgement or is it because Rippedoff does not tow the NTL line?
I do not tow the ntl line, I have received poor custom from ntl and I have never boasted in any of my posts that I 'enjoy' my services so there goes another of your poor assumptions of me being 'proNTL'.
The comment your claiming was racist, was made in humour, do you not have a sense of humour? I think you automatically found the post racist because it was made by a member who just happens to be an ntl employee.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
See no evil, hear no evil.
Erm Yeah, ok then. :erm: :shrug:
Undisputedtruth
18-09-2003, 03:37
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
I do not tow the ntl line, I have received poor custom from ntl and I have never boasted in any of my posts that I 'enjoy' my services so there goes another of your poor assumptions of me being 'proNTL'.
Whatever. You could be saying anything to justify your attempts to silence those who are critical of NTL.
The comment your claiming was racist, was made in humour, do you not have a sense of humour? I think you automatically found the post racist because it was made by a member who just happens to be an ntl employee.
Racism is a serious matter. To make fun of it is irresponsible and is one of many poor jugements on your part. I treat all issues of racism seriously regardless of employment. I expect you to do the same.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Whatever. You could be saying anything to justify your attempts to silence those who are critical of NTL.
It is quite clear then that you obviously go around this forum blind folded then. There are plenty of posts on these forums that are critical of ntl. Unedited and untouched.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Racism is a serious matter. To make fun of it is irresponsible and is one of many poor jugements on your part. I treat all issues of racism seriously regardless of employment. I expect you to do the same.
It would be serious if the post your claiming is racist, is racist, but it isn't.
Undisputedtruth
18-09-2003, 08:56
Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
It is quite clear then that you obviously go around this forum blind folded then. There are plenty of posts on these forums that are critical of ntl. Unedited and untouched.
That is reassuring to hear
It would be serious if the post your claiming is racist, is racist, but it isn't.
That is coming from someone who jokes about racism. :rolleyes:
Jeez,
You ask a perfectly apt question and all Hell breaks loose.
This is not supposed to be a thread about how the site is moderated, or to bring out the knives to argue the point about pro or anti NTL.
My question was simple, certainly to me anyway.
In general, overall, the big picture etc Are NTL getting better. The complaints seem to have reduced severely over the last couple of months.
No ISP is perfect, many have Email problems, some are better than others, but none, by any stretch of the imagination, is perfect.
We have Freedom of Speech, and this site, above the other similar inferior imitations, allows this Freedom to be heard.
I agree that personal insults etc should be Moderated, and if people wish to incite others, they should be Moderated to (KA for example).
UDT, if you are unhappy with the service that you receive, cut your losses and move elsewhere, Mod baiting etc will not add to your cause. Your problem is really with NTL, this site is here to point ppl in the right direction for assistance or assist directly. This is NOT and NTL site, it is a discussion forum primarily about NTL, but many other things as well.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
That is the whole idea Timewarrior. They deleted some of my post and deliberately not delete my complaints in order to mislead the viewer.
I think that this would be better placed in the "conspiracy theories" thread, so I ask politely that you leave mine alone - ta.
Now back on topic please.
dialanothernumb
18-09-2003, 09:18
Originally posted by Nemesis
Jeez,
You ask a perfectly apt question and all Hell breaks loose.
This is not supposed to be a thread about how the site is moderated, or to bring out the knives to argue the point about pro or anti NTL.
My question was simple, certainly to me anyway.
In general, overall, the big picture etc Are NTL getting better. The complaints seem to have reduced severely over the last couple of months.
No ISP is perfect, many have Email problems, some are better than others, but none, by any stretch of the imagination, is perfect.
We have Freedom of Speech, and this site, above the other similar inferior imitations, allows this Freedom to be heard.
I agree that personal insults etc should be Moderated, and if people wish to incite others, they should be Moderated to (KA for example).
UDT, if you are unhappy with the service that you receive, cut your losses and move elsewhere, Mod baiting etc will not add to your cause. Your problem is really with NTL, this site is here to point ppl in the right direction for assistance or assist directly. This is NOT and NTL site, it is a discussion forum primarily about NTL, but many other things as well.
I think that this would be better placed in the "conspiracy theories" thread, so I ask politely that you leave mine alone - ta.
Now back on topic please.
That was a spot-on post. Thanks Nemesis.
UDT, if you have a grievance start your own thread. Please don't hijack other threads with your incessant rants.
I think that the improvements (as I've experienced them) are patchy.
The CS and TS sides are infinitely better. Even the virus-related traffic has been coped with. A year ago, NTL would have shut down and a friend of mone said that's exactly what her ISP did for about 8 hours)
However, I am a little fed up with network performance and in particular thge DNS failures and continued reliance on transparent proxies.
My hope is that the network is the next thing to receive attention now that CS/TS is better.
The people at ntl have had a torrid time. Those who've left in the last year have also had a pretty nasty experience and customers have had a grim time, but I think the company is turning things round slowly.
My main message... NETWORK PLEASE!
My other message, either charge light downloaders less or heavy downloaders more. One size fits all is just not going to work any more
homealone
18-09-2003, 09:18
The post was racist. The victim of that post also thought it was racist. I very much doubt you know what constitutes a racist remark. If the victim perceives the post as being racist then you are not in position to say otherwise. I very much doubt you or any of your fellow moderators understands the issues of racism.
UDT - that is the kind of post from you that - imo - gets people mad at you, rather than focusing on the discussion.
- whatever the rights or wrongs of Dr Plummers opinion, there was no need, at all, to suddenly throw the "fellow moderators" into the debate.
The subject of the thread is related to our perception of NTL. I indicated that several of your points were valid - but you ignored that and went for the cheap shot approach again.
I say again, please discuss the issues - I will agree with you NTL can only improve in several areas, but the kind of remark you made above detracts from the point of the discussion and, ultimately, from any valid point you might make.
handyman
18-09-2003, 09:24
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Here is my check list for if NTL is getting better. :rolleyes: a check list yay!!
[b]
Do NTL offer an uncapped NTL broadband services?
yes
Do NTL communicate with all their customers in an professional, open and honest way?
yes
Are customers in London informed honestly to when they are going to get broadband?
yes, not likly to be very fast in coming but we are working on it
Are you able to speak to technical support or customer services within 30 seconds every time or at least most occasions?
name a company that does, we try our hardest and 80% of calls are answered in under 30 secs.
Do NTL have a charter to answer all written communications within 14 days?
ooOOoo a charter that'll make things all right
Do NTL offer free itemised billing in order for customer to check their bills for any mistakes?
no, you want it itemised pay a quid, dont winge all the time thats the price take it or leave it ok.
Do NTL guarantee a problem free email service?
No, no isp will
Are you able to speak to a supervisor when requested?
yes, if there is one available, only idiots like you think they will achieve somthing with this though
Do NTL ensures they check all possible faults at their end before sending an engineer to customer's premises?
yes
Do NTL staff get customer care training?
yes, we get less than csr's but we do get some. It not lick udt's bum training but its good enough
The list is not exhaustive but where are the evidence of NTL getting better?
Blatently obvious to anyone with their eyes open. Narrow minded trolls seem to be oblivious
Hey mods, why don't you discuss my list of questions instead of getting your knickers in a twist over your unfairness of your moderation.
Why dont you leave the forum?
orangebird
18-09-2003, 10:11
Originally posted by handyman
:rolleyes: a check list yay!!
yes
yes
yes, not likly to be very fast in coming but we are working on it
name a company that does, we try our hardest and 80% of calls are answered in under 30 secs.
ooOOoo a charter that'll make things all right
no, you want it itemised pay a quid, dont winge all the time thats the price take it or leave it ok.
No, no isp will
yes, if there is one available, only idiots like you think they will achieve somthing with this though
yes
yes, we get less than csr's but we do get some. It not lick udt's bum training but its good enough
Blatently obvious to anyone with their eyes open. Narrow minded trolls seem to be oblivious
Why dont you leave the forum?
Handyman - you are a true star :D:D:kiss: :drunk:
PS - It was me who made the 'racist' comment. Although it wasn't racist. :shrug:
ian@huth
18-09-2003, 10:21
QUESTIONS
How much of this thread is ON TOPIC?
Where is the moderation?
Is arguing with moderators allowed in this forum?
Wake up and grow up folks. Keep threads on topic and do not let them turn into a playground brawl.
Originally posted by ianathuth
How much of this thread is ON TOPIC?
Not much admittedly, I have asked tho :shrug:
Where is the moderation?
It's around, I know they are there :eek:
Is arguing with moderators allowed in this forum?
Arguing is healthy and can produce some strong points. Baiting and inciting an unhelathy topic content should be dealt with though :spin:
Wake up and grow up folks. Keep threads on topic and do not let them turn into a playground brawl.
Are you trying for a Mod's job :D
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Russ, do you approve of Dr Plummer's behaviour? Is this the standard of nthw.co.uk moderation?
The mods tend not to get involved with each other's issues - it's kind of an unwritten rule. I would have to say that you tend to have some passionate points to make about NTL and by your own admission (I think it was you anyway) you can be a little 'abrasive' but that's the way many people feel is the only way to get a point across. There have been times where I feel you have over-stepped the mark and have been dealt with appropriately. I also think you generalise too often in your experiences with NTL and this leads to other people to react.
Dr P has dealt with you in ways he deems appropriate. I would not get involved in a dispute he has with someone and I would not expect him to step in to mine, unless asked of course.
Originally posted by ianathuth
QUESTIONS
How much of this thread is ON TOPIC?
Where is the moderation?
Is arguing with moderators allowed in this forum?
Wake up and grow up folks. Keep threads on topic and do not let them turn into a playground brawl.
I see your point, but what can they do, if they leave the posts they are accused of not modding efficiently and Nemesis looses their thread. Oh the other hand if they 'sanitise' the thread they are accused of censorship!!
If UDT doesn't like whats happening (which personally I can't see the issue, maybe on other sites but not here) then he should start his own thread and leave this one to its business:)
Undisputedtruth you are a true comic.I've not had such a good laugh in over a week.
I think you forgot that this wasn't TOS and having made that mistake you in your true unbending fashion couldn't admit it and back down.Very entertaining it was too.:D After all this site ISN'T owned by NTL.Otherwise why be so scathing to this site?This is run by the disaffected customers/employees for the disaffected customers/employees,not by or for NTL.
My experiences yesterday about my DTV in the thread http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=55419#post55419 actually point to an improvement at NTL in my opinion.The fact that they are running surveys and questionnaires points to an effort too.There was a time when they just didn't bother at all with those.
Incog.(still chuckling):D
Originally posted by Incognitas
Undisputedtruth you are a true comic.I've not had such a good laugh in over a week.
I think you forgot that this wasn't TOS and having made that mistake you in your true unbending fashion couldn't admit it and back down.
I think you're right - UDT was complaining about the ntl hell stories being removed - but that was a feature of .com, not on here.
dialanothernumb
18-09-2003, 19:22
So, ahhh, UDT, you going to the get-together in Manc?
Originally posted by dialanothernumb
So, ahhh, UDT, you going to the get-together in Manc?
"In the red corner, fighting for all things anti-NTL, we have the current champion, UDT. And in the left corner, we have....about 1000 nthw.co.uk users....."
:D
Originally posted by handyman
I'm not interested in claims of racism or counter-claims or people calling each other names, nor am I "taking sides" in any disputes, but there are a few points here I would like to address...
Do NTL offer an uncapped NTL broadband services?
yes
Perhaps that should have been "Do NTL apply *any* caps to broadband services"? The answer may have been different.
Do NTL communicate with all their customers in an professional, open and honest way?
yes
Replace "all" with "most" and I think the answer would be correct. But "all" is a little too sweeping as some have found.
Are you able to speak to technical support or customer services within 30 seconds every time or at least most occasions?
name a company that does, we try our hardest and 80% of calls are answered in under 30 secs.
Sorry, but IME the first thirty seconds of any call are taken up by recorded messages and interminable "press one for..." systems that, irritate the hell out of a lot of customers.
Do NTL have a charter to answer all written communications within 14 days?
ooOOoo a charter that'll make things all right
Does NTL have ISO 9000 accreditation? If so it should stipulate that all written communications will be answered within a set period. If they fail to do so and fail to explain why they could lose that accreditation.
Do NTL offer free itemised billing in order for customer to check their bills for any mistakes?
no, you want it itemised pay a quid, dont winge all the time thats the price take it or leave it ok.
Does it cost NTL anything to itemise bills? Surely this is something that is done automatically anyway. If so, why charge for it except for the reason that "they can get away with it"?
Are you able to speak to a supervisor when requested?
yes, if there is one available, only idiots like you think they will achieve somthing with this though
I'm sorry, but what exactly are you trying to say here? Speaking to a supervisor (ie escalating a complaint) doesn't achieve anything and to try to do so after failing to get an operator to resolve the problem is "idiotic"?
What does that say about a business' attitude to customers and customer services?
Do NTL ensures they check all possible faults at their end before sending an engineer to customer's premises?
yes
Sorry? In which case, please could you explain why, when there was a *clear* area wide fault (a MUX being hit by lightning!) they sent an engineer out to my place to try to fix it? The engineer *knew* it was a waste of time, but he had to do the call out *anyway* and pointed out that he had half a dozen other similar calls to make which would *also* be a waste of time.
Do NTL staff get customer care training?
yes, we get less than csr's but we do get some. It not lick udt's bum training but its good enough
The list is not exhaustive but where are the evidence of NTL getting better?
Blatently obvious to anyone with their eyes open. Narrow minded trolls seem to be oblivious
Well if these are examples of their customer care training in action, clearly it's *not* good enough!
Hey mods, why don't you discuss my list of questions instead of getting your knickers in a twist over your unfairness of your moderation.
Why dont you leave the forum?
Since you clearly don't like UDT and have let your personal feelings for him over-ride your better judgement, and, presuming that you don't have anything personal against me, perhaps if *I* asked that question you might like to give a civil reply?
So, why don't you discuss his list of questions?
Graham I would like to point out that UDT hijacked this entire thread to take a swipe at the MODS on this site.He accused them of removing posts and threads from NTLHell.That may have been true about TOS but not here.Please don't play into his hands and resurrect it all over again.Agreed that perhaps there was over reaction on many posters part but UDT started it.
Lets let this die down and maybe Nemesis will get the answers to the original question that he deserves.
Incog.:)
homealone
19-09-2003, 00:00
So, why don't you discuss his list of questions? [/B][/QUOTE]
- I did that, & said a lot of that post, had a point - where is oblio when you want him? - but he/she still "went for me"
- anyone? - what more can I do?
Undisputedtruth
19-09-2003, 00:32
Originally posted by homealone
So, why don't you discuss his list of questions?
- I did that, & said a lot of that post, had a point - where is oblio when you want him? - but he/she still "went for me"
- anyone? - what more can I do? [/B][/QUOTE]
homealone can you tell where exactly I went for you on this thread? There is no evidence on this thread where I attacked you so why give the impression that I did?
Undisputedtruth
19-09-2003, 00:34
Originally posted by Incognitas
Graham I would like to point out that UDT hijacked this entire thread to take a swipe at the MODS on this site.He accused them of removing posts and threads from NTLHell.That may have been true about TOS but not here.Please don't play into his hands and resurrect it all over again.Agreed that perhaps there was over reaction on many posters part but UDT started it.
Incog.:)
No, it was not my intentions to hijacked the thread. It is not my fault the mods over reacted. Just look at post #66. Is this a good example of adding to good debate?:rolleyes:
homealone
19-09-2003, 00:38
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
- I did that, & said a lot of that post, had a point - where is oblio when you want him? - but he/she still "went for me"
- anyone? - what more can I do?
homealone can you tell where exactly I went for you on this thread? There is no evidence on this thread where I attacked you so why give the impression that I did? [/B][/QUOTE]
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=55381#post55381
Undisputedtruth
19-09-2003, 01:05
Originally posted by Nemesis
My question was simple, certainly to me anyway.
In general, overall, the big picture etc Are NTL getting better. The complaints seem to have reduced severely over the last couple of months.
UDT, if you are unhappy with the service that you receive, cut your losses and move elsewhere, Mod baiting etc will not add to your cause. Your problem is really with NTL, this site is here to point ppl in the right direction for assistance or assist directly. This is NOT and NTL site, it is a discussion forum primarily about NTL, but many other things as well.
My intention was never to bait the mods. All I explained in the my first post that the conditions have been made difficult to post remarks which puts NTL in a bad light. The knock on effect is that it will mislead people in thinking NTL has improved their customer services. Reading through the threads it has struck me the lengths at which people will go to silence me. Therefore it makes me wonder how far they will go to mislead other people.
Remember 174,000 customers left NTL in 2002. NTL are giving away free services in order to gain new customers. So what does that tell you? If NTL was so good they would charge a premium for their services. :rolleyes:
Shame they could not discussed my post in a more constructive way rather than going off tangent and on the defensive foot. If you look at Graham's post #67 he has read my remarks for what it was and approached it in the correct manner.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
My intention was never to bait the mods. All I explained in the my first post that the conditions have been made difficult to post remarks which puts NTL in a bad light. The knock on effect is that it will mislead people in thinking NTL has improved their customer services.
UDT with you around, I don't think anyone would ever think NTL improved.
As to your remarks about bad comments about NTL being difficult to post, well, you and other people (including some Mods) manage to do it, so it can't be that difficult.
NTL are giving away free services in order to gain new customers. So what does that tell you?
It tells me that NTL are doing something that BT (and many other companies) have done on many occasions. Giving someone something for joining. It is a standard way to try and encourage business.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
My intention was never to bait the mods.
Then why do it ?
All I explained in the my first post that the conditions have been made difficult to post remarks which puts NTL in a bad light.
Here on .co.uk - I don't think so. I don't think it's the anti -NTL comments that people object to, it's manner in which they are done and the tone of those posts.
The knock on effect is that it will mislead people in thinking NTL has improved their customer services.
I think you'll find this was realted to my question - I was looking for an overall opinion from the other members not just from you. I can't understand why you feel then need to argue so vehemently with someone elses opinion, after all it is theirs !!
Reading through the threads it has struck me the lengths at which people will go to silence me. Therefore it makes me wonder how far they will go to mislead other people.
As I said before, I don't believe that you would be silenced for your opinion, your opinion matters, but SO DOES EVERYONE ELSES. I think you need to chill out a little, the angry way in which you post is what seems to me to be the problem.
Remember this is a Discussion forum.
Remember 174,000 customers left NTL in 2002. NTL are giving away free services in order to gain new customers. So what does that tell you? If NTL was so good they would charge a premium for their services. :rolleyes:
This is a strange attitude to take .... So NTL were Bad, lost a load of customers, does that mean they can't get better, improve on past mistakes, or is it that you don't want them to. It's easy to kick them when they are down. I take a different stance, and try to find the things they are improving in, sometimes this is difficult. They still have a lot of work to do, but come on give them a chance to make it better.
Shame they could not discussed my post in a more constructive way rather than going off tangent and on the defensive foot. If you look at Graham's post #67 he has read my remarks for what it was and approached it in the correct manner.
I understand what you were looking for here, constructive arguments, but the anger and confrontational manner of the posts overtake the possible valid point you were making. By all means be angry, but surely that anger would be better directed at the cause of your problems - NTL, not the other members of this site. People are getting fed up with entering into discussion threads to be given a tirade of abuse. We are NOT NTL, so could you please post in a calmer manner. I think you would have some far better conversations, and I bet your point would get across far better than it is at the moment.
Edit: for typos
homealone
19-09-2003, 09:29
Originally posted by Nemesis
<snip>
I understand what you were looking for here, constructive arguments, but the anger and confrontational manner of the posts overtake the possible valid point you were making. By all means be angry, but surely that anger would be better directed at the cause of your problems - NTL, not the other members of this site. People are getting fed up with entering into discussion threads to be given a tirade of abuse. We are NOT NTL, so could you please post in a calmer manner. I think you would have some far better conversations, and I bet your point would get across far better than it is at the moment.
Edit: for typos
Nemesis, please can I apologise, I have contributed to dragging the thread off topic by entering into "personal" debate with UDT. I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said, above. As I have said in a number of similar exchanges with him/her, we should discuss the issue at hand & forget any "history" - unfortunately I am guilty of not taking my own advice.:erm:
Gaz
Originally posted by homealone
Nemesis, please can I apologise, I have contributed to dragging the thread off topic by entering into "personal" debate with UDT. I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said, above. As I have said in a number of similar exchanges with him/her, we should discuss the issue at hand & forget any "history" - unfortunately I am guilty of not taking my own advice.:erm:
Gaz
Apology accepted, everyone has off days, yesterday was not a good one for me either:rolleyes:
I'm not holier than thou either, but the thread hijacking and abuse is causing people to think about leaving, and IMO that would be a great shame.
I'm not leaving you can rest assured about that.In future I shall deal with UDT the way I always did with my children when they were having a tantrum.Talk around and over him.
If we all choose to do so we can just let UDT carry on as normal but just don't rise to the bait at any point.Like sending him to Coventry so to speak/type.
Incog.:)
dialanothernumb
19-09-2003, 11:04
Originally posted by Incognitas
I'm not leaving you can rest assured about that.In future I shall deal with UDT the way I always did with my children when they were having a tantrum.Talk around and over him.
If we all choose to do so we can just let UDT carry on as normal but just don't rise to the bait at any point.Like sending him to Coventry so to speak/type.
Incog.:)
Good suggestion...
So with your recent experience with DTV, I guess you feel pretty positive about some aspects of NTL service? [/ONTOPIC MODE]:)
Originally posted by dialanothernumb
Good suggestion...
So with your recent experience with DTV, I guess you feel pretty positive about some aspects of NTL service? [/ONTOPIC MODE]:)
Well yes I think I do.The only real issue that I have at present with NTL is the interactive aspect of DTV being so poor.I'm sure this will improve eventually but in the meantime I have to put up with my husbands whinging on about it.Why he can't just refer to the Radio times beats me. ;)
However this is just my personal viewpoint as I don't actually have many problems that aren't sorted pretty quick ONCE one gets through to CS.As the time it takes to talk to a real person at CS/Tech Support gets shorter then there can't be much I can complain about.BUT there are those who are suffering still from all sorts of problems with NTL I'm sure.NTL can't relax yet they have a hell of a reputation to live down.
Incog.:)
Originally posted by Incognitas
Well yes I think I do.The only real issue that I have at present with NTL is the interactive aspect of DTV being so poor.I'm sure this will improve eventually but in the meantime I have to put up with my husbands whinging on about it.Why he can't just refer to the Radio times beats me. ;)
However this is just my personal viewpoint as I don't actually have many problems that aren't sorted pretty quick ONCE one gets through to CS.As the time it takes to talk to a real person at CS/Tech Support gets shorter then there can't be much I can complain about.BUT there are those who are suffering still from all sorts of problems with NTL I'm sure.NTL can't relax yet they have a hell of a reputation to live down.
Incog.:)
Incog I was (after your above experience) hopeful this month that my bill would be right. I was wrong. And it took me 45min to get it sorted AGAIN.
Are you available to book next time I need to ring CS :p ;)
Originally posted by dellwear
Incog I was (after your above experience) hopeful this month that my bill would be right. I was wrong. And it took me 45min to get it sorted AGAIN.
Are you available to book next time I need to ring CS :p ;)
Yes billing does seem to be the one aspect that once NTL get it wrong they just don't seem to be able to get it right.Not had any problems myself but then I pay by DD.I suspect too that this,like every other complaint does depend a lot on the area in which you reside and the fact that billing and CS are not working hand in hand.
Incog. :)
orangebird
19-09-2003, 14:00
Originally posted by Incognitas
Yes billing does seem to be the one aspect that once NTL get it wrong they just don't seem to be able to get it right.Not had any problems myself but then I pay by DD.I suspect too that this,like every other complaint does depend a lot on the area in which you reside and the fact that billing and CS are not working hand in hand.
Incog. :)
It also depends on what kind of credit you expect on your bill every month... ;)
" People are getting fed up with entering into discussion threads to be given a tirade of abuse. "
Well, Nemisis, Orangebird and others who think you defend NTL when in fact you do more harm, you don't know what discussion is.
I am pleased report our 2 stbs collected this morning, once we have a date for moving goodbye NTL phone line. This is my last post simply because people like you don't understand what discussion is and you people accuse people like me of what you imagine is abuse. I have received abuse myself and taken it.
Bye, bye, to a company unable to provide BB services to people in this area. No more posting here deleted from browser.
coming soon NTL is BT.
Originally posted by Gogogo
[BWell, Nemisis, Orangebird and others who think you defend NTL when in fact you do more harm, you don't know what discussion is.[/B]
Uh ??? I offered no abuse, just observations and opinions, thing to which i am entitled. If you look into the history of my posts, and the threads I have started, I have actively sought intelligent discussion. In any case I will defend where I think it's necessary and attack in the same vain, my right as an individual. What I won't do is personally attack people who's opinion differs from my own.
Originally posted by Nemesis
Uh ???
Around and around we go.:)
Incog.
orangebird
19-09-2003, 14:13
Originally posted by Gogogo
" People are getting fed up with entering into discussion threads to be given a tirade of abuse. "
Well, Nemisis, Orangebird and others who think you defend NTL when in fact you do more harm, you don't know what discussion is.
I am pleased report our 2 stbs collected this morning, once we have a date for moving goodbye NTL phone line. This is my last post simply because people like you don't understand what discussion is and you people accuse people like me of what you imagine is abuse. I have received abuse myself and taken it.
Bye, bye, to a company unable to provide BB services to people in this area. No more posting here deleted from browser.
coming soon NTL is BT.
I wasn't aware that I wasn't 'discussing' things how you would like - is it because I didn't agree with you that you don't think I know how to have a discussion? :confused:
I suppose you won;t answer this now that you're gogogogo- gone!!!!!!
:D:D :rofl:
:angel:
Originally posted by orangebird
It also depends on what kind of credit you expect on your bill every month... ;)
If its a credit or not (may I also point out offed by them not demanded by me, if you have problem with it the go see you employers OB) they should still be able to get it right.
I think Ntl should introduce Numeracy lessons for some of their staff, the woman I dealt with today certainly needs some sort of help!:(
orangebird
19-09-2003, 14:42
Originally posted by dellwear
If its a credit or not (may I also point out offed by them not demanded by me, if you have problem with it the go see you employers OB) they should still be able to get it right.
<snip>
I have absolutely no problem with it at all dellwear - bit defensive of you to say that though? :erm:
And I know they offered it to you - but only to stop you consistently ringing cs and complaining about the lack of interactive/cr3...... not really a fault that deserves a credit, is it? But good on you, if it makes you feel better that you get some money back... :)
Maelstrom
19-09-2003, 15:14
I think everyone here has a wish list of things they would like to see or some unhappiness at some aspect of the service they receive, but in general I think the service is getting better -
Billing seems to have improved with the new format, phone answer times seem to have gotten much better (apart from when those naughty worms are loose in the wild), and apart from the obvious missing channel (SSE), the channel package is better than ever.
It should be remembered that Ntl or BT/Sky provide a technologically complex set of services unique to the service sector - sure some ISPs might be better, but what's their TV service like?,etc,etc. Look at the level of problems people have with Gas and Electric companies, who provide the simplest of services, and compare that with the services provided by Ntl. Yes there are bound to be problems, and some customers will get so ****ed off that they rant and rave or leave, but for the majority of us the service is good for most of the time - and that's about all you can hope for with an undertaking on this scale.
No-one with any sense expects perfection, but with common sense and reasoned arguement, maybe customer pressure can have an impact on both performance and policy. Thus these sites are so much better if we can avoid slanging matches, understand that peoples opinions are never just black and white, and tread just a little more carefully.:)
Originally posted by orangebird
I have absolutely no problem with it at all dellwear - bit defensive of you to say that though? :erm:
And I know they offered it to you - but only to stop you consistently ringing cs and complaining about the lack of interactive/cr3...... not really a fault that deserves a credit, is it? But good on you, if it makes you feel better that you get some money back... :)
Again you've got your knickers and facts in a twist.
They offered it to me because I had loads of faults with them, if you want to come back at me then at least get your facts straight.
OB your the one that PMed me over this and your personal paranoia. Please leave me alone, I'm fed up of putting you straight! :mad: :rolleyes:
Now come on, let's all be friends... :(
Originally posted by towny
Now come on, let's all be friends... :(
hear hear
back on topic
orangebird
19-09-2003, 15:37
Originally posted by dellwear
Again you've got your knickers and facts in a twist.
They offered it to me because I had loads of faults with them, if you want to come back at me then at least get your facts straight.
OB your the one that PMed me over this and your personal paranoia. Please leave me alone, I'm fed up of putting you straight! :mad: :rolleyes:
?? I'll attach the thread that you posted in on dot com.....
http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46351
From post #11 onwards....
Apologies if I've got my facts wrong, but my info was based on your very own postings... :)
I pm'd you as I didn't want to take another thread anymore off topic than it already had gone. Nothing to do with paranoia, just a bit of courtesy to the other posters on that thread at the time that wanted to stay on topic.. Am also a bit confused - I've yet to be put straight by you over anything??? :confused: :)
Settle down people, my mother is reading this thread..... :D
orangebird
19-09-2003, 15:41
Originally posted by Russ D
Settle down people, my mother is reading this thread..... :D
:wavey: to Russ' mum :)
Originally posted by Russ D
Settle down people, my mother is reading this thread..... :D
Hi Russ's Mum, nice to meet you :wavey:
Originally posted by Russ D
Settle down people, my mother is reading this thread..... :D
Well you had better make sure she doesn't see some of the other postings on this site.
Incog.
Originally posted by orangebird
?? I'll attach the thread that you posted in on dot com.....
http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46351
From post #11 onwards....
Apologies if I've got my facts wrong, but my info was based on your very own postings... :)
I pm'd you as I didn't want to take another thread anymore off topic than it already had gone. Nothing to do with paranoia, just a bit of courtesy to the other posters on that thread at the time that wanted to stay on topic.. Am also a bit confused - I've yet to be put straight by you over anything??? :confused: :)
*I apologise to Nemesis and Russ in advance for taking the thread so :notopic: but it has to be said.
OB, very nice of you to find the thread out, now maybe you would like to read past the first page (where you and others jumped to the wrong conclusion) before you continue you vendetta against me. I'd try post #31.
But for you convenience I'll quote the relevant part so you can get your facts straight once and for all :
".........it started because of the incompetence of staff I had to deal with and them lying to me, and finished as a rolling credit to keep me from going to Trading Standards. Their offer not my request................. Oh, and for your information it wasn't just for an issue with the EPG, it was about the open access Internet access and connection problems in my street that needed a re-pull, incidentally I asked for a re-pull on the advice of the first tec that came out 3 months before they started crediting me, would they? No. What finally fixed the connection issues? A re-pull. Sheer incompetence."
Out of all the people that visit these forums I wouldn't have expected it to be a Ntl staff member that continues to question me over my agreement with two of Ntls managers. If you know how to do their job better than them, I suggest you go and tell them that, PM me I'll give you their names, we'll see how smug you are then.
For you information I never even said the problem with my bill this month was to do with the credit they put on. You assumed that was the case. This is a regular patten in your posts to me. Your apology is graciously accepted but please go away and find someone else to "help", 'cos thats the only reason you come here or so you said.
On an unrelated note:
Hello Ms D :wavey::)
Gah!
Nemesis I think that you were never going to get too many straight answers to your question.It was just one of those subjects that brings out the worst in some.I'm going to unsubscribe right after posting this because I'm really sick of the aggro.
Incog.:(
orangebird
19-09-2003, 16:46
Originally posted by dellwear
*I apologise to Nemesis and Russ in advance for taking the thread so :notopic: but it has to be said.
OB, very nice of you to find the thread out, now maybe you would like to read past the first page (where you and others jumped to the wrong conclusion) before you continue you vendetta against me. I'd try post #31.
But for you convenience I'll quote the relevant part so you can get your facts straight once and for all :
".........it started because of the incompetence of staff I had to deal with and them lying to me, and finished as a rolling credit to keep me from going to Trading Standards. Their offer not my request................. Oh, and for your information it wasn't just for an issue with the EPG, it was about the open access Internet access and connection problems in my street that needed a re-pull, incidentally I asked for a re-pull on the advice of the first tec that came out 3 months before they started crediting me, would they? No. What finally fixed the connection issues? A re-pull. Sheer incompetence."
Out of all the people that visit these forums I wouldn't have expected it to be a Ntl staff member that continues to question me over my agreement with two of Ntls managers. If you know how to do their job better than them, I suggest you go and tell them that, PM me I'll give you their names, we'll see how smug you are then.
For you information I never even said the problem with my bill this month was to do with the credit they put on. You assumed that was the case. This is a regular patten in your posts to me. Your apology is graciously accepted but please go away and find someone else to "help", 'cos thats the only reason you come here or so you said.
On an unrelated note:
Hello Ms D :wavey::)
Thanks for pointing out the 'relevant' post above. I'll let those that are still interested in this thread read all the other posts leading up to that one which lead me to my conclusion, particularly posts #16 - 'Until your company get ther fat arses in gear and download the new liberate software to my boxes then they continue to pay me yes', and 31 - 'No, your right I'm not happy with the features of the existing software, but this isn't the only reason my account is being credited.' Still part of the reason though?..
Also, as for helping you? I know that an offer of help from Craig J was refused, so I wouldn't dream of wasting more of your time offering to help you with the substandard service you receive. However, if you should change your mind, please don't hesitate to drop me a pm :)
PS Sorry to Nemesis for such an off topic day - last one from me. :)
:kiss:
Originally posted by Incognitas
Gah!
Nemesis I think that you were never going to get too many straight answers to your question.It was just one of those subjects that brings out the worst in some.I'm going to unsubscribe right after posting this because I'm really sick of the aggro.
Incog.:(
Ah well point proven i suppose
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=56182#post56182
and all should read
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=56174#post56174
If this continues to be a personal flaming thread, i will ask the Mods to close and remove. This is beginning to get pointless.
Thanks to those that posted in the spirit the thread was created for.
Originally posted by orangebird
Nemesis for such an off topic day - last one from me. :)
:kiss:
Yes I think we'll finish this in PMs.
handyman
19-09-2003, 17:22
calm down dell and head over to tuther place ;)
Ignore :spin: we are here all ready, lol.
Handyman to be ignored, check the samsung thread dell ;) is what i ment
Richard M
19-09-2003, 18:53
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Russ, do you approve of Dr Plummer's behaviour? Is this the standard of nthw.co.uk moderation?
Enough of this BS!
We are not some company who has to answer to our Managers about how we treat our "customers", we do not have shareholders to answer to, this is an internet forum set up by NTL customers for NTL customers and we will moderate it as we see fit.
If you don't like it then find some other forum to troll.
Undisputedtruth
19-09-2003, 19:08
Originally posted by Incognitas
Gah!
Nemesis I think that you were never going to get too many straight answers to your question.It was just one of those subjects that brings out the worst in some.I'm going to unsubscribe right after posting this because I'm really sick of the aggro.
Incog.:(
Well, some of the people were claiming NTL were offering good services last year and the same people are saying the same things now. Some of them are NTL employees, therefore you cannot expect to get a straight answer. So in a nutshell, the question is a waste of time though it principle it is a good question. In other words good question - wrong audience.
I must go now before the others take my post the wrong way again. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Well, some of the people were claiming NTL were offering good services last year and the same people are saying the same things now. Some of them are NTL employees, therefore you cannot expect to get a straight answer. So in a nutshell, the question is a waste of time though it principle it is a good question. In other words good question - wrong audience.
I must go now before the others take my post the wrong way again. :rolleyes:
THIS IS THE VERY LAST TIME THAT I WILL ADDRESS YOU DIRECTLY.
SO LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY.
I AM NOT AN NTL EMPLOYEE.I HAVE NEVER BEEN AN NTL EMPLOYEE.I PROBABLY WILL NEVER BE AN NTL EMPLOYEE.AS FAR AS I'M AWARE NONE OF MY FRIENDS AND RELATIVES IS AN NTL EMPLOYEE.When I post here I post as a CURRENT NTL customer.
I now intend to ignore you.You are,as of now sent to Coventry.
Incognitas.
Undisputedtruth
19-09-2003, 19:29
Originally posted by Incognitas
THIS IS THE VERY LAST TIME THAT I WILL ADDRESS YOU DIRECTLY.
SO LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY.
I AM NOT AN NTL EMPLOYEE.I HAVE NEVER BEEN AN NTL EMPLOYEE.I PROBABLY WILL NEVER BE AN NTL EMPLOYEE.AS FAR AS I'M AWARE NONE OF MY FRIENDS AND RELATIVES IS AN NTL EMPLOYEE.When I post here I post as a CURRENT NTL customer.
I now intend to ignore you.You are,as of now sent to Coventry.
Incognitas.
I must I admit I've already ignored you as you have tendency to put the odd dig into people who write NTL negative articles. On this occasion I shall make an exception.
Can you tell me where I said on this thread you were an employer of NTL. :shrug: Shame you couldn't address the main points of my post rather than using the easy way out and causing a scene for no particular reason.
Jeez, some people need to lighten up here.:rolleyes:
Richard M
19-09-2003, 19:32
No more OT posts please, from anyone. :)
Originally posted by Incognitas
Graham I would like to point out
Incognitas: I would like to point out, just as I did in the message you're replying to, I'm not interested in this, in fact I DON'T GIVE A TOSS about it!
And frankly, it seems to me as if *you* are just "hijacking" my message to have another go at UDT instead of addressing the on topic points that were raised.
Lets let this die down and maybe Nemesis will get the answers to the original question that he deserves.
If you wanted it to die down and for Nemesis to get answers you wouldn't have snipped all the relevant stuff from my message!
Now if you go back to my post #67, would you like to address the points that were actually raised?
Let me remind you that the first message in this thread said So I ask again is it me or ..... are NTL getting better ??????
Do you think so? Do you think the comments in that message are *not* relevant concerns about NTL?
dialanothernumb
19-09-2003, 22:16
Yet another thread goes down because of the tone.
I'm off:wavey:
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Jeez, some people need to lighten up here.:rolleyes:
:rofl:
Now that is pure class. Why don't we have a black pot smiley?
Originally posted by towny
:rofl:
Now that is pure class. Why don't we have a black pot smiley?
We need the kettle one too!! :) ;)
homealone
19-09-2003, 23:39
this is really difficult.
I am one of the posters that have dragged this thread out of shape. Some of my quotes got screwed up, as well, I hope my intent was not misconstrued, by "anyone". :erm:
I tried to contribute a genuine reply to the thread
here (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=55339#post55339)
- but, since then, personal abuse - imo - has taken over?
I am personally, upset by the attacks on incog, in particular. My impression of her, is that she is forthright in her opinions, but would not be drawn into debate, unless she felt strongly on the issue. - that is what a discussion is all about - isn't it?
Can I, respectfully, ask for this thread to be closed? Nemesis do you agree?
Gaz
This thread will get closed for one of two reasons:
a) If one of the mods feels it's gone way off course and/or is getting insulting/abusive (and I'm VERY close to choosing this path)
or
b) The original poster requests closure with a good reason.
Undisputedtruth
20-09-2003, 10:27
Originally posted by dellwear
Its just a small group of hard liners that cause this sort of trouble, they should be ashamed of themselves, they really aren't helping 'the cause'.:(
Absolutely, these same people talk about this being a discussion forum. They are only interested if the messages are putting NTL in a good light. As soon as a message is negative about NTL they act all hypersensitive about so called attacks from me and are not willing to address the issues raised by me. These same people are now calling for the thread to be closed. If these people were genuine in discussing the thread then they should refrain from hijacking the thread in order to insult me.
You're right, these hard liners (pro NTL mob) are small in numbers, they would try every trick in the book to silence me.
Now, I said my bit, how about these hard liners answering my questions raised in post #6, without going off topic and causing further problems?
timewarrior2001
20-09-2003, 11:09
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Are NTL getting better? Does a Leopard chage it's spots?
At the moment if you post an anti NTL remark you're likely to get a rebuttal from the mods, get attacked by the proNTL mobs or have your remarks deleted. All the NTHELL stories have been removed because they put NTL in negative picture. Even though the stories may well be true. I have received PMs from other members who felt they were being hounded off the forums just because they expressed their views.
Here is my check list for if NTL is getting better.
Do NTL offer an uncapped NTL broadband services?
Do NTL communicate with all their customers in an professional, open and honest way?
Are customers in London informed honestly to when they are going to get broadband?
Are you able to speak to technical support or customer services within 30 seconds every time or at least most occasions?
Do NTL have a charter to answer all written communications within 14 days?
Do NTL offer free itemised billing in order for customer to check their bills for any mistakes?
Do NTL guarantee a problem free email service?
Are you able to speak to a supervisor when requested?
Do NTL ensures they check all possible faults at their end before sending an engineer to customer's premises?
Do NTL staff get customer care training?
The list is not exhaustive but where are the evidence of NTL getting better? :shrug:
Thats your criteria?
Can i just ask, is that criteria things you will check for or things you know NTL currently dont do?
I'm having difficulty understanding why you are choosing to ignore some of the small changes that are being made, ANY change that gives ANY benefit to ANY customer is a sign NTL are getting better IMO.
NTL are far from perfect, but they cant go from shambles to the best thing since sliced bread overnight. It needs time and co-operation from its customer base. Maybe NTL are lacking in the co-operation dept. Sooner or later they are going to HAVE to get in touch. Ranting and raving about things isnt going to get changes done, it requires calm informed oppinions not wild accusations about mods on a forum thats only link to NTL is that we discuss topics about NTL and other things.
Undisputedtruth
20-09-2003, 12:08
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
Thats your criteria?
Can i just ask, is that criteria things you will check for or things you know NTL currently dont do?
I'm having difficulty understanding why you are choosing to ignore some of the small changes that are being made, ANY change that gives ANY benefit to ANY customer is a sign NTL are getting better IMO.
ON TOPIC
The criteria I have set are a measure of how NTL has improved their services over the last 12 months. If there are no standards of service then no one can ever say NTL have improved their services. Above all, customers do not wish to be misled by a group of hardliners. If they are saying NTL has improved then I'd be interested in how they measured it.
timewarrior, perhaps these small changes are so small they are negligible. If NTL are getting better then they need to address the issues raised by customers. Could you care to elaborate on these small changes are - so I can apply my thoughts and further discussions.
OFF TOPIC
For the record, I was not ranting and raving at the mods. I was merely pointing out the conditions have been made difficult for people who express negative views about NTL.There is a perception that just because the negative views are not numerous as last year they are using that as a sign of improvement in services. This is so untrue. There could be a number of reasons - you can only rant for a limited amount of time. They have change telecom suppliers. Hard liners makes life difficult for people to express negative views. Moderators have been proactive in addressing the customer problems quickly so things cannot get out of hand. However, there are many unresolved issues which are beyond the control of the mods.
The discussion thing has turned out messy with the usual small number of hardcore people.
PS
While I was writing this, I received a phonecall from NTL sales. I've been polite but she cut me off because I was unwilling to get NTL talk. NTL getting better. :rolleyes:
homealone
20-09-2003, 12:45
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Absolutely, these same people talk about this being a discussion forum. They are only interested if the messages are putting NTL in a good light. As soon as a message is negative about NTL they act all hypersensitive about so called attacks from me and are not willing to address the issues raised by me. These same people are now calling for the thread to be closed. If these people were genuine in discussing the thread then they should refrain from hijacking the thread in order to insult me.
You're right, these hard liners (pro NTL mob) are small in numbers, they would try every trick in the book to silence me.
Now, I said my bit, how about these hard liners answering my questions raised in post #6, without going off topic and causing further problems?
without aligning myself with anything, other than being an NTL customer, I answered your post #6
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?postid=55339#post55339
- and made a comment agreeing with a number of your points. I also made comments in favour of NTL. That, imo, represented an attempt at discussion.
However, it seems to be that any comment in favour of NTL evokes exactly the same "hypersensitive" reaction from you, that you mention above.
As I made comments both favourable to your view and favorable to NTL I fail to see how that constituted an "attack" - other than my criticism of your use of the term "pro NTL", of course.
This IS a discussion forum - your attempts to polarise discussion by assigning members to notional pro/anti lobbies, one of which you dismiss as being of no consequence, is why I asked for this thread to be closed.
My comments in my post I linked to above were based on my experience as a customer, some good, some bad, hopefully a balanced view. I accept that you may have only had a bad experience, that is your view, I respect that. But please do not dismiss the views of people who have had good experiences of the service - both views are subjective. Denying the crediblity of a good experience detracts from the credibility of your bad one & stifles the thread as a discussion.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Absolutely, these same people talk about this being a discussion forum. They are only interested if the messages are putting NTL in a good light.
I apologise (once again) for being off topic I have tried to make on topic posts but when people try to take you comments so out of context you have to say something.
your above comment is not true at all, if you look back I have made "anti-NTL" comments no this thread and others, these people you talk of don't pounce on me for my opinion, have you ever thought it may be the way you word your comments.
Your brash, abrasive, and sometimes down right rude, personally I would call you a troll but that may get me into trouble so I won't.
You do sometimes have valid points but you need to consider how you put these across. If you don't you will alienate people and end up banned. Take heed now or it'll be too late.
Back on topic, like I said before I think Ntl have improved in other areas, but as Incog may say 'must try harder'.;)
Undisputedtruth
20-09-2003, 13:22
Originally posted by dellwear
I apologise (once again) for being off topic I have tried to make on topic posts but when people try to take you comments so out of context you have to say something.
your above comment is not true at all, if you look back I have made "anti-NTL" comments no this thread and others, these people you talk of don't pounce on me for my opinion, have you ever thought it may be the way you word your comments.
Your brash, abrasive, and sometimes down right rude, personally I would call you a troll but that may get me into trouble so I won't.
You do sometimes have valid points but you need to consider how you put these across. If you don't you will alienate people and end up banned. Take heed now or it'll be too late.
Back on topic, like I said before I think Ntl have improved in other areas, but as Incog may say 'must try harder'.;)
On topic
I'm still interest to know what these improvements are:confused: Like I said earlier, one of NTL's sales staff cut me off, so why should I think NTL services are getting better?
Off topic
Perhaps, I think the reason why my comments are set upon by these people is because they are upfront and ask some serious questions about NTL. For this I make no apologies for.
I'm being frank in what are my opinions as a customer of NTL so this makes me Troll or are you influenced by these people who are trying to stifle me? I'm only rude to those who were rude to me in the first place.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
are you influenced by these people
You obviously ahve never read any of my posts on other threads!! :rolleyes:
I'm not influenced by anyone, and I'm not going to be manipulated by you either.
UDT, if people that agree with some of you points are telling you that you have an attitude problem , do you not think that you should perhaps listen to them??:(
Undisputedtruth
20-09-2003, 17:16
Originally posted by dellwear
You obviously ahve never read any of my posts on other threads!! :rolleyes:
I'm not influenced by anyone, and I'm not going to be manipulated by you either.
UDT, if people that agree with some of you points are telling you that you have an attitude problem , do you not think that you should perhaps listen to them??:(
I'm glad to hear you're not influenced by them and I appreciate your upfront views. However, there has been a long history between some of the people on these boards, so therefore why should I listen to them? The same people were saying how wonderful NTL over the last few years. Somehow, I am not convinced of the stage managed "NTL is wonderful" mantra. Some people may think just because NTL are sending out engineers out to customers quickly then NTL services is improving. They forget NTL have less customers now than they did last year, hence engineers are able to meet their appointments due to less customers. So far, no one has explained beyond reasonable doubt NTL services has improved.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
So far, no one has explained beyond reasonable doubt NTL services has improved.
That would be very difficult to establish. Ultimately it comes down to personal opinion, and your opinion is that they have been appalling to you one way or another, while mine, for example, is that when things have gone wrong (not very often) they have been swiftly sorted out.
You posted a list of questions a lot earlier in this thread but while they might have been a useful debating point I think they were framed in too extreme a fashion, leaving yourself wide open to be shot at by those you call 'the NTL mob' (I suspect you think I am one of them).
I think there is very little that is black and white about this issue, just lots of shades of grey. You think NTL is appalling; I think they're ok. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. As for whether they are better or worse ... well, can some folks who have access to statistics start quoting them? They would be a useful starting point.
timewarrior2001
20-09-2003, 19:08
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
However, there has been a long history between some of the people on these boards, so therefore why should I listen to them?
Ditto.
The main basis was a question "have NTL improved" I answerd yes and explained why.
You answered no and didnt leave it there.
If you dont like NTL then you have said your piece please let it lie now, it's recorded that you do no think NTL have improved.
If however you are willing to discuss points in peoples posts in a reasonable no accusatory manner then in my eyes you should stay and contribute some more.
:notopic:
I feel this thread has gone way off course :( Isn't this thread about NTL and not about individual members. :confused:
Can we keep it ontopic then please.
Undisputedtruth
20-09-2003, 19:50
Originally posted by Caspar
:notopic:
I feel this thread has gone way off course :( Isn't this thread about NTL and not about individual members. :confused:
Can we keep it ontopic then please.
I would like to keep this thread on topic. Unfortunately certain inviduals have tendency to grossly exaggerate some of my minor points.
Undisputedtruth
20-09-2003, 19:55
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
Ditto.
The main basis was a question "have NTL improved" I answerd yes and explained why.
You answered no and didnt leave it there.
If you dont like NTL then you have said your piece please let it lie now, it's recorded that you do no think NTL have improved.
If however you are willing to discuss points in peoples posts in a reasonable no accusatory manner then in my eyes you should stay and contribute some more.
As I'm not getting any decent answers that NTL is improving due to the personal attacks I shall phrase my question in another way.
If you had to convince Undisputedtruth that NTL has improved what should UDT be looking for or at?
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
If you had to convince Undisputedtruth that NTL has improved what should UDT be looking for or at?
Maybe the replies on this thread? (The ones that are not off topic of course)
You have all been told to keep this on topic more then once. This is the last time.
UDT you can't go around labelling certain comments "on & off topic" because you can't go off topic in a thread in the first place! Please stop this. Thanks
Undisputedtruth
21-09-2003, 10:40
Originally posted by col d
Maybe the replies on this thread? (The ones that are not off topic of course)
Then if that is the case then NTL services have hardly improved. For NTL services to improve they need a change of attitude from the top end of the company to the bottom, they need to communicate more and have an action plan of how they are going to change. I can see no evidence of this whatsoever - only spamming by the small numbers of usual hard liners.
What the others have said on how "ntl services are improving" are based on the phenomena "dead cat bounce" where the service has dipped so badly - a very negligible improvement follows later - ending in another dip. I think this sums up the situation rather well.
Originally posted by towny
That would be very difficult to establish. Ultimately it comes down to personal opinion, and your opinion is that they have been appalling to you one way or another, while mine, for example, is that when things have gone wrong (not very often) they have been swiftly sorted out.
<snip>
I think there is very little that is black and white about this issue, just lots of shades of grey. You think NTL is appalling; I think they're ok. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. As for whether they are better or worse ... well, can some folks who have access to statistics start quoting them? They would be a useful starting point.
I think another part of the problem is that NTL's service levels are different between different franchises. Most of London (the ex-Videotron areas) are still getting a terrible service (based on comments by UDT, and friends I have covered by these areas). My area, however, has improved massively, and is relatively good now.
Having said that, I would have classed Cable and Wireless' service in my area as sh*t, so any one else was likely to be an improvement.
But, as towny said, there is little black and white in this area, just shades of gray.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
What the others have said on how "ntl services are improving" are based on the phenomena "dead cat bounce" where the service has dipped so badly - a very negligible improvement follows later - ending in another dip. I think this sums up the situation rather well.
Unless you have access to figures you are not quoting, or can see the future, I would say you are speculating that NTL will dip again.
Undisputedtruth
21-09-2003, 16:14
Originally posted by scastle
Unless you have access to figures you are not quoting, or can see the future, I would say you are speculating that NTL will dip again.
Many of NTL's new customers are on 12 months contracts, therefore I don't think there be a dip soon. However, I think once the contract has expired, they will probably looking for reasons to stay and I don't think NTL will offer a financial incentive for them stay. A lot of people will be looking at NTL to increase their earnings over the next 12 months.
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Many of NTL's new customers are on 12 months contracts, therefore I don't think there be a dip soon. However, I think once the contract has expired, they will probably looking for reasons to stay and I don't think NTL will offer a financial incentive for them stay. A lot of people will be looking at NTL to increase their earnings over the next 12 months.
Fair enough. I see your reasoning.
Mods,
I have no desire or will to post in this thread again. Thanks for the support but this has been taken WAY off topic. My fault I spose for asking a mildly intelligent question, expecting to get some basis for my theory that due to the lack of HELL stories, things might generally be getting better.
It would appear that I'm not going to get the answers I wanted, and do not wish to take part in the personal insults that have been flying. Shame really I thought it would be a good discussion.
Close it ..
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