View Full Version : *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please. (Part 2)
A Fresh New Thread for the CAP Discussions :D
Continued from here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=25385)
Play nice now ...
Ignition
14-03-2005, 12:18
Well apparently ntl have blocked programs like DocsDiag from seeing just how under utilised their network is. ntl no longer permit SNMP access to the ISP-side addresses of cable modems, so the -traffic facility of DocsDiag will no longer work.
That program never actually worked properly and any figures it gave were a guesstimate and usually quite on the low side.
Also do you actually know at which point load on a downstream or upstream becomes service affecting? It's not 100%
Just why should we allow customers to observe the traffic on the equipment of ours they connect to. If/when this stuff starts getting enforced, people will be able to check their own traffic. Load on our network isn't really any of their business - we generally require some free capacity for burst, load changes a lot during the day / night, etc.
Impractical, not to mention dangerous. The idea of BT selling to postcodes on the grounds that the CMTS card covering that area is 65% utilised isn't really a big commercial goer.
PC_Arcade
14-03-2005, 12:36
I will be affected by the cap, I use Emule and download (copyrighted) films etc. Whilst my PC is on pretty much constantly I probably don't go over the cap by all that much anymore (I used to) as I'm not maxing out my connection 24x7, in fact I hardly ever max out my connection anymore, the last time I did was shortly after upgrading when I downloaded a movie from usenet to see how long it takes at full pelt (~35 minutes!).
NTL are within their rights to introduce and enforce a cap, it's their network and it is up to them to decide, rightly or wrongly, what people can and can't do with it.
I'm against the cap and IF contacted will leave because it's MY choice to do so, yes it's a PITA for me, but as a customer I have the choice and the right to take my business elsewhere if the company I'm currently using no longer meets my needs.
The "cap" argument is a little pointless IMHO, those for the cap, will remain so despite any arguments made from the other side and those anti it will either leave when (if?) it's enforced or learn to live within it.
NTL are a private company, they exist to make money and to keep their shareholders happy. If they lose a couple of thousand (unlikely but possible) due to enforcement of their rules but maintain or increase profitability then their shareholders will be happy and they will have achieved their goal.
What their customers think of them is completely irrelevant, as long as they pony up the cash each month, the ONLY way NTL (or any private company) will re-think a policy is if it hurts them financially.
th'engineer
14-03-2005, 12:41
If/when this stuff starts getting enforced,
Do you know something "If "this stuff starts getting enforced or is it me reading too much into the comment
For the record, docsdiag -traffic definately doesn't work anymore, tried it yesterday after a year when it did work.
That program never actually worked properly and any figures it gave were a guesstimate and usually quite on the low side.
Also do you actually know at which point load on a downstream or upstream becomes service affecting? It's not 100%
Just why should we allow customers to observe the traffic on the equipment of ours they connect to. If/when this stuff starts getting enforced, people will be able to check their own traffic. Load on our network isn't really any of their business - we generally require some free capacity for burst, load changes a lot during the day / night, etc.
Impractical, not to mention dangerous. The idea of BT selling to postcodes on the grounds that the CMTS card covering that area is 65% utilised isn't really a big commercial goer.
As long as ntl keep to the spirit of their promise that they'll only contact customers who are affecting the quality of service of other customers then there's generally not much to worry about.
However, as network load is the lynchpin behind ntl's capping policy then it would be reasonable for a customer to request some evidence of network load if they are ever contacted. This is where I think it could become a customer's business.
Exactly where load becomes service affecting is an interesting point and it's a question that I'd certainly want to know the answer to if I were being accused of significantly reducing other peoples service level. Perhaps you could educate me? (It wouldn't be 65% would it?) :D
Perhaps the information is commercially sensitive but penetration/homes passed figures are publically available anyway and I think these figures are of more interest to the likes of BT.
Maybe it would be worth going over a few Variables to see why people are so heated...
How much Bandwidth does a customer end box have, that is the one serving these XXX users - both download and Upload. Provided with figures, Im sure people can de-duce themself why problems occur when too many people at once download/upload at once.
People can buy a switch/network cards at very cheap prices, they see a Net connection as a extention to this, after all its shoving data around in the same fashion is it not. Maybe CM or ADSL is now the Wrong technology for the home market?? How does China, Sweden or whoever has 10/100mbit connections wire to the home?
Important one this:- It has been said many many times that a person using there connection too much costs the company money - why and how is this?? Ive asked this loads of times and not once had any answer at all. Is it costing money because they can not shove as many people on that UBR??
Warez - Been pointed out many times as the cause, why then do NTL provide a news Server that has Illegal Software on? A Average user can and will find P2P apps and before they know it - also one of them identified as a heavy user - this I have witnessed myself.
Somebody using there connection too much is told about Contention, yet surely on the same breath a person with slow speed, lag in game etc can also be chucked that same bone - thats told "sorry, its a shared service, we never said it would be 3mbit all the time m'kay"....
A cap will NOT solve the problem of the above - a better idea surely is a simple one, basically what it is now, guidelines for useage and somebody abusing this by 24/7 downloading can be warned or dropped - sounds simple to me..
http://www.chetnet.co.uk/faq.htm#uBR is a good starting placeExample
1. Out of the given pool of subscribers, 40% are logged on during busy hour.
2. Out of the 40% subscribers that are logged-on during busy hour, only 25% might be downloading data simultaneously and contributing to the peak activity.
Thus, peak data demand during busy hour is 10% (.4 *.25) of the subscriber base.
Let us assume that a service provider wishes to limit the worst case data throughput per user at peak busy hour to not less than 256 Kbps. Thus it means that for a given line card with a single one 27 Mbps usable 64QAMdownstream channel bandwidth, the total number of simultaneously active subscribers has to be limited to 27000000/256000 ~= 100.
Since simultaneously active subscribers are assumed to be 10% of total subscriber base, we end up with a number of around 1000 subscribers per line card.
I know this doesn't answer all your questions but it's a start.
I was just typing a post moaning about NTL speeds today.
Thinking it could not get worse when my computer crashed.
Thanks to NTL .any way after a restart it all seems to be working at full
Speed again. So I will have my say about the speed
Upgrate. insteat and the cap who here would pay for the NTL
TV serves if they were tolled they could only watch it so many
Hours a day so why accept what they want to do with an internet
Cap I for one will not if they get in touch with me and say I am
Downloading too much I will tell them to get stuffed cancel
My NTL phone NTL TV and NTL broadband witch in all comes
To well over £100 a month. And get a new isp that as no cap and
Join sky. I think they are looking at the capping from the
Wrong end witch is what you might except from them they say
They will monitor people with a 1mp a day cap for excessive
Use. So take me I download a film its 1.50g when I get my
Speed upgrade that should take me 3 or 4 hours and then my modem
Will not be in use but I will have gone over there 1g a day limit
But my modem as only been on for 4 hours and then we get the people
On a 3g a month limit who are not being monitor say they want to get
The same film to get it there modem will be on 24\7 because of there
Slow speed so who do you think NTL should be monitoring yes NTL
Have got it back to front again. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
.
.
Important one this:- It has been said many many times that a person using there connection too much costs the company money - why and how is this?? Ive asked this loads of times and not once had any answer at all. Is it costing money because they can not shove as many people on that UBR??
Warez - Been pointed out many times as the cause, why then do NTL provide a news Server that has Illegal Software on? A Average user can and will find P2P apps and before they know it - also one of them identified as a heavy user - this I have witnessed myself.
.
.
It would take a lot of inside information to give a full answer but some of ntl's fixed and variable costs can be seen in the quarterly/yearly reports. They are getting around £30Mill ion a month in broadband subscriptions and as I mentioned a couple of times earlier each GB of external bandwidth costs them around 10p.
Bandwidth costs would seem to me to be a small percentage of broadband revenue.
Historically, the provision of newsgroup access within the ntl network saved them money because they wouldn't have to pay those external transit bandwidth costs over and over again for newsgroups. Recently this has been made a mockery of as they now only carry a small fraction of the daily feeds so people end up subscribing to pay news servers outside of ntl's network and not only do ntl end up paying each time the same article is downloaded by a different customer (I dont think they cache nntp to any degree) but customers will tend to download more as the pay providers have a much 'better' selection.
ian@huth
14-03-2005, 16:12
http://www.chetnet.co.uk/faq.htm#uBR is a good starting place Example
1. Out of the given pool of subscribers, 40% are logged on during busy hour.
2. Out of the 40% subscribers that are logged-on during busy hour, only 25% might be downloading data simultaneously and contributing to the peak activity.
Thus, peak data demand during busy hour is 10% (.4 *.25) of the subscriber base.
Let us assume that a service provider wishes to limit the worst case data throughput per user at peak busy hour to not less than 256 Kbps. Thus it means that for a given line card with a single one 27 Mbps usable 64QAMdownstream channel bandwidth, the total number of simultaneously active subscribers has to be limited to 27000000/256000 ~= 100.
Since simultaneously active subscribers are assumed to be 10% of total subscriber base, we end up with a number of around 1000 subscribers per line card.
I know this doesn't answer all your questions but it's a start.Those figures assume that everyone is behaving like the model which is rarely the case.
If you take that example a little further and try to give users the full speed they are on then the total number of simultaneously active subscribers has to be limited to 27000000/3072000 ~= 9. Any more than 9 and those 9 will be affecting the service of every user on that card. See how easy it is for only 9 users to affect around a thousand other users.
__________________
They are getting around £30Mill ion a month in broadband subscriptions
post mostly stripped.
Where does that £30 million a month come from? It seems rather high.
Those figures assume that everyone is behaving like the model which is rarely the case.
That's a bit of an insult to the model makers who are in the business. It's not about 'everyone' behaving like the model. It's a business of averages. But I guess you're right and they're wrong as usual.
If you take that example a little further and try to give users the full speed they are on then the total number of simultaneously active subscribers has to be limited to 27000000/3072000 ~= 9. Any more than 9 and those 9 will be affecting the service of every user on that card. See how easy it is for only 9 users to affect around a thousand other users.
Your figures do not take into account any statistical probability.
Where does that £30 million a month come from? It seems rather high.
£25 * 1,200,000. It's not an exact figure just a working estimate. If we assume ARPU on broadband to be £20 then it would be £24Mill ion a month.
Where does that £30 million a month come from? It seems rather high.As I recall they have about 1.1 million BB customers, of which about 60% are on the lowest tier, 30% on the middle and 10% on the high (actually I think it may have been < 10% on the high).
Working on those figures they are getting about £22 million per month - which is then about £19 million after VAT is removed.
And bear in mind that the bulk of their costs are likely to be the purchase, installation and operation of the hardware/software used to provide that bandwidth that costs them £0.10 a gig to the user. After all, there are a hell of a lot of staff, and a hell of a lot of equipment between the user and NTLs link to the net. I have it on fairly good authority that it can cost NTL thousands of pounds to upgrade the network sufficiently so that that one heavy downloader does not impact all the other users in their area. That one heavy downloader will only pay 37.99 a month. How long do you think they should wait for a return on the investment?
It's impossible for 1 heavy user to affect anyone elses service. It's when they are all doing it at the same time that the model fails and problems occur.
The most recent reports suggest a userbase of 1.2million at least.
60% (720,000) @ £18 = £12,960 ,000
30% (360,000) @ £25 = £9,000, 000
10% (120,000) @ £38 = £4,560, 000
Revised total would then be £26,520 ,000 a month
I've no idea offhand of ntl's tax situation so will ignore that for the moment.
ian@huth
14-03-2005, 16:42
That's a bit of an insult to the model makers who are in the business. It's not about 'everyone' behaving like the model. It's a business of averages. But I guess you're right and they're wrong as usual. The problem with averages is that rarely anyone is average. Take the average man, he has less than two arms, less than two legs, less than two eyes, etc.
ThatYour figures do not take into account any statistical probability.Statistical probability has nothing at all to do with it. That calculation shows that 9 x 3Mb users, 18 x 2Mb users, 27 x 1Mb users or any combination of these whos speeds add up to 27Mb will saturate the 27Mb downstream that you quoted in that example if they all downloaded at full speed at the same time. On a card that has 1,000 users it is very easy to get such a small number downloading at the same time. Just look at the posters in this thread who seem to think that every user on the middle and top tier uses their connection to the max all the time.
That £25 * 1,200,000. It's not an exact figure just a working estimate. If we assume ARPU on broadband to be £20 then it would be £24Mill ion a month.I would imagine that the bulk of NTLs broadband customers are on the lowest tier with a fair number enjoying discounts from the normal prices.
You know Ian that just because the average number of kids per household might be 2.4 it doesn't mean that they're claiming there are actually 2.4 kids in any given household. : DOH :
ian@huth
14-03-2005, 16:51
It's impossible for 1 heavy user to affect anyone elses service. It's when they are all doing it at the same time that the model fails and problems occur.
You must be using a wierd type of logic to arrive at that conclusion.
If you have a UBR at peak time where the combined usage of customers is greater than the available downstream then just adding that one extra user will lower the speed that others are getting. That is a simple and undeniable fact.
__________________
You know Ian that just because the average number of kids per household might be 2.4 it doesn't mean that they're claiming there are actually 2.4 kids in any given household. : DOH :Which is exactly my point. :) :)
You must be using a wierd type of logic to arrive at that conclusion.
If you have a UBR at peak time where the combined usage of customers is greater than the available downstream then just adding that one extra user will lower the speed that others are getting. That is a simple and undeniable fact.
OMG and you're saying that all the other users have no effect and it's only the 1 user who has an effect. LOL that's pretty funny.
Which is exactly my point
No it was not your point. You've just done a complete U-Turn. You really dont understand averages do you?
ian@huth
14-03-2005, 16:54
OMG and you're saying that all the other users have no effect and it's only the 1 user who has an effect. LOL that's pretty funny.That's not what I said and you know it.
That's not what I said and you know it.
It would appear so (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=424654&postcount=18)
I think that's enough now - stop bickering like a couple of kids, or this is going to get closed.
But I'm having so much fun (http://www.coolmath4kids.com/little_links.html)
ian@huth
14-03-2005, 17:00
No it was not your point. You've just done a complete U-Turn. You really dont understand averages do you?I think I understand them more than you do. Remember where this started.
Originally Posted by ian@huth
Those figures assume that everyone is behaving like the model which is rarely the case.
That's a bit of an insult to the model makers who are in the business. It's not about 'everyone' behaving like the model. It's a business of averages. But I guess you're right and they're wrong as usual.
It's impossible for 1 heavy user to affect anyone elses service. It's when they are all doing it at the same time that the model fails and problems occur.
True, I was being a bit extreme using one heavy user as an example. However, if more than one person is a heavy downloader (24/7) on a particular UBR card, then everyone else on that card will get slower downloads, and to keep all the users happy, NTL would have to install more cards. I don't know the exact cost of these upgrades, but I understand it can run into thousands of pounds.
Now, NTL have to justify that expenditure to the shareholders. What would be easier to justfy? Spending a couple of thousand on the new card so that a few heavy downloaders can pay £37.99 a month each to use it? NTL may make their investment back in , what, 2 or 3 years? Or maybe getting rid of the heavy downloaders?
Monster Jedi
14-03-2005, 17:47
What happends if theres loads of heavy downloaders. Lets say 20% or more? Can NTL afford to loose that kind of revenue. It's not just broadband cos alot of the customers might take the tv and phone else where as well. I would if I get a phone call, I would ring up customer services and remove the lot and go else where. It might cost me more money a month. I would do it and I'm not the only one who would.
People who cane their connection 24*7 on a busy UBR deserve to be moderated in some way. Being a business of averages though I'd argue that if a user at one end of the bell shaped curve decides to exceed the guidelines by a large margin on a very quiet UBR, ntl should and probably would leave them be. That is unless ntl want to ring up all the low bandwidth users and encourage them to download more ;)
What happends if theres loads of heavy downloaders. Lets say 20% or more? Can NTL afford to loose that kind of revenue. It's not just broadband cos alot of the customers might take the tv and phone else where as well. I would if I get a phone call, I would ring up customer services and remove the lot and go else where. It might cost me more money a month. I would do it and I'm not the only one who would.
This is unlikely, as the only people in a position to really be heavy downloaders (and cause a problem) are those on the higher tiers of service, and the bulk of NTL's customers are on the lowest tier (300K/1Meg).
What happends if theres loads of heavy downloaders. Lets say 20% or more? Can NTL afford to loose that kind of revenue. It's not just broadband cos alot of the customers might take the tv and phone else where as well. I would if I get a phone call, I would ring up customer services and remove the lot and go else where. It might cost me more money a month. I would do it and I'm not the only one who would.
ntl do face a dilemma in certain areas ie University districts where a bunch of students 'all' want to download more than the average Joe. They can add cards/resegment UBR's but there comes a point where a line has to be drawn.
At the end of the day, ntl and the industry have to hope that the cost of bandwidth provision continues to fall faster than the corresponding rise in bandwidth demand.
Demand will rise and costs will fall. That's fundamental. After Video-On-Demand becomes a commodity service then costs will continue to fall but the rate of rise in demand should decline. This is all years away though.
Hmmm confusing arguments for sure, if most of the people are on the lower tier (300K cos they will have no idea there has been a upgrade) and they also do not use the net much or go on very often, then who is this heavy downloading effecting??? other heavy downloaders?
Are we saying that the only people who are a problem is the ones who download 24/7? if that the case then no need for any caps, pure guidelines and boot them - easy as that surely...
I read and laughed about the 5-7 GIG months is the avertage user - really!!!
I did a couple of tests over the last 3 days to see if this was true...
Myself, Browsing the web, Chatting on Skype and playing Online Games, which keeps downloading maps it seems. Now my Useage a day is just a touch over 1 GIG - thats both Upload and download combined - in fact I watched PTRG without doing anything on the net whatsoever and it was creeping up....
My Nephew is on BT, he has no idea about Warez, P2P etc yet after running a Bandwidth meter program for 3 day his useage again was just about 1 GIG day (plays same games as me etc).
If people are grabbing a max of 7GIG a month, dial up would def be the easier option for them ...
If you take that example a little further and try to give users the full speed they are on then the total number of simultaneously active subscribers has to be limited to 27000000/3072000 ~= 9. Any more than 9 and those 9 will be affecting the service of every user on that card. See how easy it is for only 9 users to affect around a thousand other users.
The model requires tweaking if you're not dealing with the notional 256kbps throughput. (Using the other figures in the model) - a user who downloads at 3Mbps will spend on average less than 25% of his online time actually downloading because the connection is faster than 256kbps. So this figure of 9 (which would have equated to 90 on average using that model) would actually be much higher.
dirtydog
15-03-2005, 07:43
Oops my usage for March went over 30GB during the night.. and there's still half the month to go :o
ian@huth
15-03-2005, 09:46
The model requires tweaking if you're not dealing with the notional 256kbps throughput. (Using the other figures in the model) - a user who downloads at 3Mbps will spend on average less than 25% of his online time actually downloading because the connection is faster than 256kbps. So this figure of 9 (which would have equated to 90 on average using that model) would actually be much higher.That assumes that the user still downloads the same volume which is highly unlikely with the very high usage customers.
Common sense dictates that 9 users on a 3Mb connection will download 27Mbps if they are all managing to download at their maximum rate. If the UBR card only has 27Mb of downstream bandwidth available then those 9 will consume all the available bandwidth. Actually it would take less than 9 because no account has been taken for overheads and noise. So if only 9 users are consuming the entire bandwidth for the card, what about the other 1,000 that are also on that card? The answer is simply that all users will suffer degraded performance. Taking figures from earlier in the thread you could say that there are 100 x 3Mb customers on that card of which 40% are online during peak periods (some are saying that all 3Mb customers are using their connection all the time but let's forget that). Of that 40 customers 25% are downloading at the same time which means that 10 x 3Mb customers are downloading. 10 x 3Mb customers would use 30Mbps if all were getting full speed but there are only 27Mb available. So something has to give and the only thing that can happen is that those users will not get the full 3Mb. That example forgets about the other 900 customers on less than the top tier, many of which will also be online and degrading the service further. So all those members who think that they are safe because their usage does not impact on others may like to have second thoughts.
th'engineer
15-03-2005, 10:00
Has anyone still got a copy of the Goodland tapes on their PC
It is cap related
ian@huth
15-03-2005, 10:03
Has anyone still got a copy of the Goodland tapes on their PC
I might have it on an old hard drive. Will have a look when I next go into the attic but that might not be for a while.
th'engineer
15-03-2005, 10:05
I might have it on an old hard drive. Will have a look when I next go into the attic but that might not be for a while.
Thanks ian think some of our new cable forum members need to listen to the idiot behind the cap
Has anyone still got a copy of the Goodland tapes on their PC
It is cap related
Surely anticap.co.uk must have it? ;)
th'engineer
15-03-2005, 10:10
Surely anticap.co.uk must have it? ;)
Thats an idea cant find my copy:D, your on form this morning :p:
Ignition
15-03-2005, 11:14
*Starts reading then falls asleep - same arguments as over a year ago, at least the first thread was a little more relevant to the present rather than the same old congestion vs consumption arguments.
All we need is the crap analogies about all you can eat buffets, places on a train, etc, and we're there. :sleep:
That assumes that the user still downloads the same volume which is highly unlikely with the very high usage customers.
.
.
.
.
<snip>
.
.
.
.
The model doesn't apply to "High Usage" OR "Low Usage" customers. It applies to the average man (who does exist for these purposes btw). * A V E R A G E *
Oh sod it I give up.
scrotnig
15-03-2005, 12:09
*Starts reading then falls asleep - same arguments as over a year ago, at least the first thread was a little more relevant to the present rather than the same old congestion vs consumption arguments.
All we need is the crap analogies about all you can eat buffets, places on a train, etc, and we're there. :sleep:
Too late, I did the 'all you can eat buffet' analogy at the weekend!
y'see cable is like an all you can eat buffet on a train. You can only eat at the buffet if you have a place on the train and if you eat too much you get bigger and bigger until you can't fit in the seat any more. Then the guy behind complains because your seat collapses and you end up in his lap and so AUP drag out out and toss you off the train. Then then get an anorexic teenager in who doesn't eat at the buffet at all, thus leaving some spare food for the management Christmas Party.
Obvious, innit! :)
--Rakhal
th'engineer
15-03-2005, 12:46
*Starts reading then falls asleep - same arguments as over a year ago, at least the first thread was a little more relevant to the present rather than the same old congestion vs consumption arguments.
All we need is the crap analogies about all you can eat buffets, places on a train, etc, and we're there. :sleep:
I have to agree we have debated over and over again at least people know about now and its not done sneakerly like NTLs Bill Goodland did last time.:td:
If one lesson was taken on board by NTL it is keep the customers informed and not BS them .:tu:
Well nearly apart from my friend Daniel yesterday in the Manchester call centre. He tried BS th'eng :D
Oops my usage for March went over 30GB during the night.. and there's still half the month to go :oBully for you :rolleyes:
ian@huth
15-03-2005, 13:25
The model doesn't apply to "High Usage" OR "Low Usage" customers. It applies to the average man (who does exist for these purposes btw). * A V E R A G E *
Oh sod it I give up.What is the use of a model that doesn't apply to normal internet use? All UBRs probably have a mixture of high and low usage customers.
The more that speeds increase, the greater the likelihood of getting less than your maximum speed.
scrotnig
15-03-2005, 13:26
y'see cable is like an all you can eat buffet on a train. You can only eat at the buffet if you have a place on the train and if you eat too much you get bigger and bigger until you can't fit in the seat any more. Then the guy behind complains because your seat collapses and you end up in his lap and so AUP drag out out and toss you off the train. Then then get an anorexic teenager in who doesn't eat at the buffet at all, thus leaving some spare food for the management Christmas Party.
Obvious, innit! :)
--Rakhal
I demand an end to train caterers limiting the amount you can eat. After all, I PAY for my meal and I demand the right to have AS BIG A PORTION AS I LIKE!
Its not our fault you have a small portion hehehehehe ;)
A bit late on the bandwagon but here goes.
I have my connection split to two machines using a router, my mum uses the machine downstairs for graphics work, she has subscribed to lots of graphics mailing lists and receives over 500mb of images a day in her mail inbox, while I download recorded TV & radio shows after I get home from work so I don't miss my favourite shows.
Add to that the fact that I constantly download game demos & videos and you can guarantee that between the both of us we do actually use over 1Gb a day.
Now add in the fact the the rest of the family almost always pop round daily to use our net connection and we have a recipe for disaster.
I can fully understand the need for a cap in this day and age... but 1Gb per day???
And before you ask, yes, I do occasionally be a naughty person, however my amazon & play order histories show very clearly that I pay for things I like. :)
Anyhoo, I seriously hope that the cap limit is reviewed before things are seriously enforced otherwise I'm going to be penalised for using a net connection for every day usage. :(
I really want to know how likely are they going to be enforcing this cap. How much over 1 gig do u have to do before u get in the poo poo
I have always been with ntl for the phone & broadband. Broadband was a no choice as they were the only provider in my area at the time.
I have always found the service quite good but these caps are a bit like going backwards rather than forwards, more like when we were getting ripped off for our internet connections while america was free to use as much as they liked.
Also at a fraction of the cost, step in the government to try to bring us up to par with the americans. Now as usual in this country someone has to try something to pull us back again, heres hoping someone sees sense before its too late. I wont hold my breath though
ian@huth
15-03-2005, 18:17
A bit late on the bandwagon but here goes.
I have my connection split to two machines using a router, my mum uses the machine downstairs for graphics work, she has subscribed to lots of graphics mailing lists and receives over 500mb of images a day in her mail inbox, while I download recorded TV & radio shows after I get home from work so I don't miss my favourite shows.
Add to that the fact that I constantly download game demos & videos and you can guarantee that between the both of us we do actually use over 1Gb a day.
Now add in the fact the the rest of the family almost always pop round daily to use our net connection and we have a recipe for disaster.
I can fully understand the need for a cap in this day and age... but 1Gb per day???
And before you ask, yes, I do occasionally be a naughty person, however my amazon & play order histories show very clearly that I pay for things I like. :)
Anyhoo, I seriously hope that the cap limit is reviewed before things are seriously enforced otherwise I'm going to be penalised for using a net connection for every day usage. :(
Why not use other means for recording TV & radio such as a video recorder, DVD recorder, etc. Tell the family that pop round to use your connection to get their own. :)
Ignition
15-03-2005, 18:37
I really want to know how likely are they going to be enforcing this cap. How much over 1 gig do u have to do before u get in the poo poo
1 Byte. :batty:
Why not use other means for recording TV & radio such as a video recorder, DVD recorder, etc. Tell the family that pop round to use your connection to get their own. :)
I understand your point that there are other ways of capturing the tv & radio shows, but I don't agree that I should have to go out and buy a DVD recorder because ntl have decided on an unfortunately low cap.
Besides, why would I need another DVD burner when I already have one in my PC?
purenuman
15-03-2005, 18:58
my mum uses the machine downstairs for graphics work, she has subscribed to lots of graphics mailing lists and receives over 500mb of images a day in her mail inbox, while I download recorded TV & radio shows after I get home from work so I don't miss my favourite shows.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
No Linux distros?? :angel:
Get your mum to unsubscribe & buy you a video (or Sky+).....
HeavyDude
15-03-2005, 18:59
There ain't no point whinging about the cap, we're all in the same boat and I can't see NTL changing it because a few people have complained it's too low. If you really NEED to download TV & radio progs every day then you'll probably have to find another ISP. My mate uses UKONLINE, he has an 8MB connection and a 500GB a month cap. Would that be enough for you?
Alternatively you could kick your mum out of the house...;)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
No Linux distros?? :angel:
Get your mum to unsubscribe & buy you a video (or Sky+).....
Damm you beat me to it :)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
No Linux distros?? :angel:
Get your mum to unsubscribe & buy you a video (or Sky+).....
Laugh it up fuzzball! :)
No linux distros here, I have a modicum of imagination. (and no time for faffing around with arcane but ultimately solid technologies.)
scrotnig
15-03-2005, 19:12
Now add in the fact the the rest of the family almost always pop round daily to use our net connection and we have a recipe for disaster.(
Do they also pop round and make phone calls on your telephone?
If they did, would you complain to your phone company that your bill had gone up but it wasn't you that made the calls?
cookie_365
15-03-2005, 19:33
I have to agree we have debated over and over again at least people know about now and its not done sneakerly like NTLs Bill Goodland did last time.:td:
If one lesson was taken on board by NTL it is keep the customers informed and not BS them .:tu:
Well nearly apart from my friend Daniel yesterday in the Manchester call centre. He tried BS th'eng :D
You know eng, I think you've got a secret thing for Daniel ;)
purenuman
15-03-2005, 19:45
Laugh it up fuzzball! :)
I will..... Thanks!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Do they also pop round and make phone calls on your telephone?
If they did, would you complain to your phone company that your bill had gone up but it wasn't you that made the calls?
Incorrect analogy my friend, the bill hasn't gone up, the usage has been limited.
And yes, I would complain if ntl turned round and said that I could have a clearer audio signal on my phone line at no extra charge but they are going to limit me to ten calls a day.
__________________
I will..... Thanks!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Hehehe.. :cool:
Florence
15-03-2005, 19:51
Regardless of what is said about NTL not sneaking the cap in this time they failed on hte communicatioin side. 1gig a day 12 months ago was forced then after the outrage of customers it was let slip and left there in silence but with the increase speeds the cap should have been researched and customers perhaps asked a few questions to see what applications they would be using. These speeds are good for bandwidth hungy applications that are legal but are no limited. This quote from a news post on ISPr will show how others are handling the capping situation and communicating with their consumers to find the best way. They seem not willing to lose the customers over caps that are just too restrictive.
Managing heavy usage
With VoIP and other volume hungry applications becoming more popular, the way in which ISPs manage demand is set to become a key challenge in coming months. Nildram has addressed this through a fair usage policy, which allows non-pay as you go non-business users up to 50GB per month, offering extra bandwidth for sale at 99p per GB. To give you an idea of how much 50GB of data is, it would be equivalent to watching an average broadband video stream (300kbps) for around 11 hours a day, every day of the month †“ so we feel that this gives users plenty of headroom. Some other ISPs have taken a more heavy-handed approach, expelling "broadband hogs" or shifting them on to special "bad boy pipes".
Over the next year weââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ll see the roll out of the much anticipated 8MB circuits. Clearly this is paving the way for IPTV, again raising issues about usage management. While many service providerââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s PR engines have kicked into overdrive, the reality is that BT have yet to announce full details, although a trial is expected from July. The answers here probably lie in a change in pricing model between service providers, content providers and consumers.
Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ll be interesting to see how the rest of the industry deals with the capping issue. When NTL set its cap at 1GB per day in 2003, there was outrage from many of their users, some of which banded together and formed a pressure group against the move. However, the vast majority of our customer base utilise less than 50 GB per month †“ less than one per cent would be affected by our own fair usage policy - and the feedback weâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ve had so far has, almost without exception, been positive.
Taken from http://www.ispreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EEEplAEplkRtMxwkJt
purenuman
15-03-2005, 20:36
Regardless of what is said about NTL not sneaking the cap in this time they failed on hte communicatioin side. 1gig a day 12 months ago was forced then after the outrage of customers it was let slip and left there in silence but with the increase speeds the cap should have been researched and customers perhaps asked a few questions to see what applications they would be using. These speeds are good for bandwidth hungy applications that are legal but are no limited. This quote from a news post on ISPr will show how others are handling the capping situation and communicating with their consumers to find the best way. They seem not willing to lose the customers over caps that are just too restrictive.
Taken from http://www.ispreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EEEplAEplkRtMxwkJt
Maybe we could discuss this later............. Like when (and if) NTL introduce a hard cap for 2&3mb (yes I know the 1mb starts later this year).
Or maybe even when they start using the "Guideline" to warn people about over use...... But when (or if) they do...
DieDieMyDarling
15-03-2005, 22:56
Weren't people already warned for going over the guideline? Even on the slower speeds. I believe they recieved letters, but nothing ever went further, for whatever reason.
carlingman
15-03-2005, 23:34
Has anyone still got a copy of the Goodland tapes on their PC
It is cap related
Yep full copy here.
I have not got any web space to upload it too so if your email can handle 33mb give me a shout and i can mail it.
:D
purenuman
15-03-2005, 23:49
Yep full copy here.
I have not got any web space to upload it too so if your email can handle 33mb give me a shout and i can mail it.
:D
Or use http://s15.yousendit.com/
You can send files of up to 1 gig.......... if that doesn't take you over your ISPs cap :D
ian@huth
15-03-2005, 23:50
Regardless of what is said about NTL not sneaking the cap in this time they failed on hte communicatioin side. 1gig a day 12 months ago was forced then after the outrage of customers it was let slip and left there in silence but with the increase speeds the cap should have been researched and customers perhaps asked a few questions to see what applications they would be using. These speeds are good for bandwidth hungy applications that are legal but are no limited. This quote from a news post on ISPr will show how others are handling the capping situation and communicating with their consumers to find the best way. They seem not willing to lose the customers over caps that are just too restrictive.
Taken from http://www.ispreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EEEplAEplkRtMxwkJt
I don't suppose Nildram will wan't to lose too many customers seeing they only have 40,000 on broadband. :D
carlingman
15-03-2005, 23:53
Or use http://s15.yousendit.com/
You can send files of up to 1 gig.......... if that doesn't take you over your ISPs cap :D
:D
Cheers for the link but my ISP does not have a CAP.
CAP whats a CAP oh I know it whats I wear when its raining when I am playing golf.
:D
purenuman
16-03-2005, 00:06
:D
Cheers for the link but my ISP does not have a CAP.
Neither does mine
I'm on NTLs 2mb :D
Originally Posted by scastle
Originally Posted by DVS
Here here.. Someone else who realises what this 'cap' is all about. Milking a few more pounds out of the service. Who will see the benefits - Shareholders and the boses who will get yet another bumper bonus.
Maybe they are milking those extra pounds to help pay for some of the upgrades the network needs?
I've no doubt a small amount will go back into the network but as I state above I fully expect the lions share will go towards lining the shareholders and boses pockets.
__________________
Originally Posted by scrotnig
Originally Posted by DVS
I hope the rumours I heard recently about Cable operators being forced to open their networks for competitors to use was more than a rumour as then switching ISPs would be far easier.
ntl's network was built with private money. The people who stumped up the cash are entitled to try and get some return on that investment. Why should they then see that investment capability undermined by being forced to allow competitiors to use it to undercut their own prices?
To do this ntl would have to paid hundreds of millions of pounds, if not billions of pounds, in compensation, and that money would have to come from the taxpayer, which as a taxpayer myself I'd object to vehemntly.
Would they? Yes NTL would kick off and possibly rightly so but surely NTL have to abide by whatever OFCOM dictates and if OFCOM said open your network would NTL not have to comply? I'm not saying this could/would happen just hypothesising :)
See, this is just yet another example of people who don't understand even the simplest basics of the market making pronouncements about it.
Quite frankly I didn't state anywhere that I did understand the market (nor do I want to as lifes too short). I was simply repeating what I'd read on one of the tech news sites. May even have been on the register or the inquirer (and yes I'm well aware that they aren't the most reliable sources of information :))
__________________
Originally posted by scrotnig
Originally Posted by DVS
Here here.. Someone else who realises what this 'cap' is all about. Milking a few more pounds out of the service. Who will see the benefits - Shareholders and the boses who will get yet another bumper bonus.
Milking a few more pounds out of a commercial product. Yes, isn't that disgraceful in a free market economy, especially for a company that makes no profit at the moment. :rolleyes:
This wonderful free market economy is great for consumers isn't it. You only have to look at the recent news items regarding tour operators to see that we live in "rip off Britain". Corporate entities taking consumers for a ride. Wonderful.
People criticise ntl for not marketing their products in such a way that they could actually make some money and thus invest in the network, then when they try they are criticised for that too. DAMNED IF THEY DO, DAMNED IF THEY DON'T.
If they cut the 'fat cats' bonuses at the top they'd have plenty to invest :p:
southwell
16-03-2005, 10:28
I have been lately downloading quite a few demos, upgrades etc and have hit my 1gb cap for the last two days, then my internet pages stop opening properly and my downloads slow right down. Is this the cap doing this? I find it strange as i restart my PC and all is well for an hour or so until it does it again, my friend also has the same problem.
Can anyone shed any light on this? :help: please!!
th'engineer
16-03-2005, 11:02
Incorrect analogy my friend, the bill hasn't gone up, the usage has been limited.
And yes, I would complain if ntl turned round and said that I could have a clearer audio signal on my phone line at no extra charge but they are going to limit me to ten calls a day.
Think you may need a provider without limits, so suggest you need to look at ADSL guide for suppliers.
Your connection allready has a usage guide on it of 30 GB a monthwhich has been on for a long time please read your NTL terms and conditions .
Details can be found here www.anticap.co.uk (http://www.anticap.co.uk)
NTL do not want bandwidth hogs :D
__________________
Yep full copy here.
I have not got any web space to upload it too so if your email can handle 33mb give me a shout and i can mail it.
:D
yes please msn account
I have been lately downloading quite a few demos, upgrades etc and have hit my 1gb cap for the last two days, then my internet pages stop opening properly and my downloads slow right down. Is this the cap doing this? I find it strange as i restart my PC and all is well for an hour or so until it does it again, my friend also has the same problem.
Can anyone shed any light on this? :help: please!!
This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1581603762/qid%3D1110971064/202-8675293-7755803) should explain everything. ;)
lmao that was a good one obvious...you have made my day, there is so many people i can give that link heh
southwell
16-03-2005, 12:01
This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1581603762/qid%3D1110971064/202-8675293-7755803) should explain everything. ;)
:rolleyes: I was asking a serious question.
It has only happened since upgrading to 3mb.
Graham M
16-03-2005, 12:04
Im having the same problem, but its been happening since before my upgrade to 2MBit.
No offence intended. Was just having a giggle.
DieDieMyDarling
16-03-2005, 12:49
Well i've been going over 1GB a day, since i got the upgrade to 3mb, and i've not lost speed once. It might just be work getting carried out in your area, to cope with the new speeds.
Well one burning question even NTL customer service don't seem to know is if uploads are included in the usage limits.
I have been told on different occasions that they do not, but then i have also been told they do as well.
Come on NTL try to get these details right so we can all see how you compare with the other providers.
We can all determine then if its worth staying or going elsewhere
DieDieMyDarling
16-03-2005, 18:35
The truth is, they don't know. They're still waiting to see what other ISP's do, before jumping in, hence the wait to later in the year.
ian@huth
16-03-2005, 18:44
The truth is, they don't know. They're still waiting to see what other ISP's do, before jumping in, hence the wait to later in the year.Who says they don't know? :) They may have looked at the results of their ADSL2+ trials and decided to put all the heavy users on to that with a 18Mbps connection and figured if they did that they didn't need caps. :erm: ;)
Well i had my doubts as to the sanity of NTL when they told me they could do sky tv cheaper than sky could, which is amazing considering they buy their programming from sky in the first place. If they go ahead & enforce the Caps then it will only confirm my original doubts. Incidently my sky package on sky has consistently been at least £8 per month cheaper than ntl's equivalent.
Gives you all an idea of their advertising
Incidently my sky package on sky has consistently been at least £8 per month cheaper than ntl's equivalent.
And are you including the cost of a telephone line in your calculations?
If you are I'd be very interested in the package you have.
even adding the cost of line rental my package still comes out under the ntl one as i got ntl for the phone anyway.
best thing when they do their calculations they always assume you have a bt line if you have sky
even adding the cost of line rental my package still comes out under the ntl one as i got ntl for the phone anyway.
best thing when they do their calculations they always assume you have a bt line if you have sky
Then what is your package? I'm not aware of any difference of that much in the two companies pricing.
even adding the cost of line rental my package still comes out under the ntl one as i got ntl for the phone anyway.
best thing when they do their calculations they always assume you have a bt line if you have sky
Then what is your package? I'm not aware of any difference of that much in the two companies pricing.
I dunno who he's with for telecoms, but I suspect it's not BT.
I dunno who he's with for telecoms, but I suspect it's not BT.
as i got ntl for the phone anyway.
*Ahem* I think it might be Ntl for the phone line ;)
Hi, just wanted to ask, i have got NetMeter, which is fantastic for letting me keep track, i just wondered if when calculating my 3gb month cap, do i count Upload and Download?
I thought it was download only but since I stopped trying to keep up with this thread I'm not sure.
Edit:
And since reading this in the AUP again I'm still convinced it's downstream/ download only
ntl: home's broadband and dial-up services are intended for normal recreational or educational use by individuals and families and our pricing and network architecture have been designed accordingly. Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers.
"Normal use" of the service is defined as up to 1 gigabyte downstream of data transfer daily (which equates to approximately 200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes downloaded per day).
* Excludes customers who subscribed to ntl's 1 Mb Broadband service with 3 Gigabyte monthly usage allowance on, or after, 8th March 2005. For more information about the 3 Gigabyte monthly usage allowance that applies to this service, click here.
This is what we need from NTL: http://www.btyahoo.com/broadbandusage_holding
They even have this:
8. How do I access the usage monitoring tool?
For BT Broadband users, from 1st May 2005 you will be able to monitor your monthly usage by logging into www.bt.com/youraccount (http://www.bt.com/youraccount) and clicking on the Broadband Usage section. If you haven't already signed up as a bt.com user you will need to do so first by visiting this web-site.
For BT Yahoo! Broadband users from 1st May you will be able to monitor your monthly usage by signing in to bt.yahoo.com (http://bt.yahoo.com/) and visiting the "My Account" area of the site.
awesome......
purenuman
17-03-2005, 17:19
This is what we need from NTL: http://www.btyahoo.com/broadbandusage_holding
They even have this:
8. How do I access the usage monitoring tool?
For BT Broadband users, from 1st May 2005 you will be able to monitor your monthly usage by logging into www.bt.com/youraccount (http://www.bt.com/youraccount) and clicking on the Broadband Usage section. If you haven't already signed up as a bt.com user you will need to do so first by visiting this web-site.
For BT Yahoo! Broadband users from 1st May you will be able to monitor your monthly usage by signing in to bt.yahoo.com (http://bt.yahoo.com/) and visiting the "My Account" area of the site.
awesome......
I think NTL plan similar for 'when' the 1mb hard cap is in operation......
Ok was thinking about the whole cap thing in the shower the other day and it struck me that introducing a cap is completely pointless.
The way i see it, its not how much an individual downloads that affects performance, its how many individuals download at once. Lets use a traffic analogy for this - A person who drives 200 miles around a city between the hours of 2am and 5am will have virtually no affect on the congestion of that city. However if that same person drove 20 miles between 8 and 8.30 then they would be adding to the gridlock along with the thousands of other ppl who choose to take their journey at that time. Suerly its the same with the ntl network. if a small no. of ppl download 10 gigs through the small hours, the network should be fine, but if evrybody downloads their allotted 1gig in the same couple of hours then we have slowdown. so whats the point in the cap?
i download quite a lot of stuff some days, but as soon as its gets to 6pm i set the pc doing some other stuff so as to free up some bandwidth for the ppl who've just got in at that time. I think ntl would do far better to simply encourage ppl to download sensibly or at least introduce on and off peak caps ( similar to plusnet ).
i must say i've had quite a good connection from ntl for the few years i've been with them aznd it would be a shame if myself and many others had to leave because of these misguided caps.
question..what do ntl do when you do abbuse the download cap.
they call you and ask you to stop ? and if you carry on downloading ?
do they drop your connection ?
purenuman
17-03-2005, 17:54
question..what do ntl do when you do abbuse the download cap.
they call you and ask you to stop ? and if you carry on downloading ?
do they drop your connection ?
Nothing!
Later in the year they are going to drop your speed on the 1mb if you go over.
Even this may change in time.......
Nothing!
Later in the year they are going to drop your speed on the 1mb if you go over.
Even this may change in time.......
And do they drop the price for that month\time period?
That would help the billing department no end i'm sure. ;) I've read into this, but theres no mention of price adjustment.
But how could they charge almost £40pm [say your on 3meg] and they find you do'nt stop d\loading and have to "keep" you on a lower tier, say 1meg.
The phrase about opening a can of worms , springs to mind.
Ignition
17-03-2005, 18:42
Who said anything about any potential speed drop affecting billing in any way?
The BT approach will drop customers to I think 128kbps for the rest of the month, no change of pricing, you've had what you paid for now you get what you are given for the rest of the charging period.
In fact no operator that's following this approach will give people discounts, that's like saying 'here have your 3Mbps 40GB, then when you're done have an unmetered 300k / 1Mbit / whatever for the rest of the month, get your 40GB done quickly enough and save a packet!' hrmmm nah.
Florence
17-03-2005, 18:53
Who said anything about any potential speed drop affecting billing in any way?
The BT approach will drop customers to I think 128kbps for the rest of the month, no change of pricing, you've had what you paid for now you get what you are given for the rest of the charging period.
In fact no operator that's following this approach will give people discounts, that's like saying 'here have your 3Mbps 40GB, then when you're done have an unmetered 300k / 1Mbit / whatever for the rest of the month, get your 40GB done quickly enough and save a packet!' hrmmm nah.
but Igni according to ntl its 1 gig a day 2mb and 1 gig a day 3mb so you can't get to 40 gig a month.
purenuman
17-03-2005, 19:01
And do they drop the price for that month\time period?
That would help the billing department no end i'm sure. ;) I've read into this, but theres no mention of price adjustment.
But how could they charge almost £40pm [say your on 3meg] and they find you do'nt stop d\loading and have to "keep" you on a lower tier, say 1meg.
The phrase about opening a can of worms , springs to mind.
The price would not change!
At the moment they have only spoken about hard capping the 1mb so none of the cap talk is relevant to 2&3mb.
NTL said 2&3mb will stay the same i.e. 1 gig a day guideline and you will be contacted if your excessive use impacts on other users.... No speed or tier drop etc.
1GB a day cap kinda sucks.. i'm gonna be on the 2mb when they upgrade me and 1GB a day can go easy.. I suppose its fine because i don't always go over 1gb, but some days i've reached 2gb+ on my current 750k. I doubt the stuff i do will affect other users.. so it should be fine.. I feel sorry for the 1MB users.. what is their cap? 3gb a month? that sucks.. they should review that.. maybe another daily cap like 700mb or something.. but i get what they are doing :P they obviously know it sucks and want people that easily go over that to upgrade.. but cant u easily get way over 3gb a month from just web browsing??
southwell
18-03-2005, 10:13
I think 3mb users should a higher cap han 2mb users, you pay a substantial amount more for higher broadband but they think the same cap should apply.
purenuman
18-03-2005, 11:34
2 & 3mb cap??
What cap?
There isn't one yet!! 1mb is coming but 2 & 3mb remain as is.
And the 1mb is aimed at people like my sister (NTL 3 gig mth capped later this year) and my mum (Wanadoo 1 gig mth capped now) who would take a good few months to use one months "cap".......
Ignition
18-03-2005, 11:58
but Igni according to ntl its 1 gig a day 2mb and 1 gig a day 3mb so you can't get to 40 gig a month.
It was just an example.
I was told during ordering my 1mb broadband that after exceeding 3 gb/mth speed will drop to 300 kb. is it true? i do not want to pay any extra fees or being disconnected.
etccarmageddon
18-03-2005, 12:48
I was told during ordering my 1mb broadband that after exceeding 3 gb/mth speed will drop to 300 kb. is it true? i do not want to pay any extra fees or being disconnected.
that isnt true.
so tell me the truth...:D
Ok was thinking about the whole cap thing in the shower the other day and it struck me that introducing a cap is completely pointless.
The way i see it, its not how much an individual downloads that affects performance, its how many individuals download at once. Lets use a traffic analogy for this - A person who drives 200 miles around a city between the hours of 2am and 5am will have virtually no affect on the congestion of that city. However if that same person drove 20 miles between 8 and 8.30 then they would be adding to the gridlock along with the thousands of other ppl who choose to take their journey at that time. Suerly its the same with the ntl network. if a small no. of ppl download 10 gigs through the small hours, the network should be fine, but if evrybody downloads their allotted 1gig in the same couple of hours then we have slowdown. so whats the point in the cap?
Exactly! Can the network cope with the new speeds if loads of people are surfing at the most popular times! Not an issue of how much downloaded but how many people trying to access a finite amount of bandwidth.
The caps coupled with the speed increases is like saying "Ok you can now travel at 200 miles per hour, but you can only go 100 yards" - madness.
Ignition
18-03-2005, 13:23
OK What *will* happen is one of the following, I don't know how many of these are accurate, but it will be one of them as they are the only options it could be!
1) You will be offered the option to upgrade to 2Mbit or 3Mbit
2) You will be offered the option to pay for usage over 3GB on a per MB/GB rate and retain the 1Mbit speed.
3) You will be slowed to a speed considerably below 300k.
Will be one or more of those 3, maybe all 3. This isn't coming from any great insider knowledge those are just the only options available.
ok, so is ntl going to inform me in some way which option i want to choose?
Ignition
18-03-2005, 13:48
When it starts being properly policed yes.
purenuman
18-03-2005, 13:55
The caps coupled with the speed increases is like saying "Ok you can now travel at 200 miles per hour, but you can only go 100 yards" - madness.
There are no planned caps (as yet) for 2 & 3mb so it is more like saying.......
"Ok you can now travel at 200 miles per hour, but if you regularly go over 1 gig a day & your usage of the service impacts on others then perhaps NTL BB isn't for you and we can discuss it".
From The Hosses mouth as it were.
http://www.home.ntl.com/page/userpolicy
this doc refers to 1gb downstream as the limit.:Yikes:
the options quoted by NTL are roughly as Ignition has stated.
NTL at the momemnt are monitoring usage, as I have already indcated albiet in the wrong forum (Speed Discussion about a week ago),:notopic: They are basically 'backdooring' you on Port 80 (this Port is used by Hackers to HiJack your M/c) to flash a warning that you have exceeded your 1gb limit and if it continues they will disconnect the service, fear not Zone Alarm prevents them getting access to your m/c. they have been doing this since they went from "unlimited" to a capped service which happened before the introduction of the 1,2 and 3 Mb services, doesn't anyone read the T&C's regularly,:erm: as NTL suggest you do this on a regular basis, as obviously they are a 'Fluid' organisation that are 'ProActive':LOL:
hope this helps sorry for goin on a bit
NSR:blush:
From The Hosses mouth as it were.
http://www.home.ntl.com/page/userpolicy
this doc refers to 1gb downstream as the limit.:Yikes:
the options quoted by NTL are roughly as Ignition has stated.
NTL at the momemnt are monitoring usage, as I have already indcated albiet in the wrong forum (Speed Discussion about a week ago),:notopic: They are basically 'backdooring' you on Port 80 (this Port is used by Hackers to HiJack your M/c) to flash a warning that you have exceeded your 1gb limit and if it continues they will disconnect the service, fear not Zone Alarm prevents them getting access to your m/c. they have been doing this since they went from "unlimited" to a capped service which happened before the introduction of the 1,2 and 3 Mb services, doesn't anyone read the T&C's regularly,:erm: as NTL suggest you do this on a regular basis, as obviously they are a 'Fluid' organisation that are 'ProActive':LOL:
hope this helps sorry for goin on a bit
NSR:blush:
What?!?
NTL can monitor your internet usage without "backdooring" your PC. And anyway, monitoring on port 80 would be pointless. locally that port is used for a web server, and even if they monitor all connections to port 80, then that would fall way short of true bandwidth usage as most people using over 1gig are using P2P and IRC.
It is academic anyway, NTL can monitor your true bandwidth usage, regardless of what apps you use, without going near your computer, but by checking their logs on your local UBR.
As footnote I upgraded online last week from 750k to 2mb (Wed 9th March) and am getting reported speeds of 1885/195, check your speed here
http://www.dslreports.com/tweaks:notopic: :sorry:
and I use Netmeter to as a guide my d/l usage so I don't exceed my cap:dmonk:
you can d/l it here
http://www.mefo-shop.de/readerror/NetMeter_v0999beta2.exe
Hope this is of help and is useful to you all.
NSR:waving:
etccarmageddon
18-03-2005, 14:34
They are basically 'backdooring' you on Port 80 to flash a warning that you have exceeded your 1gb limit and if it continues they will disconnect the service...stop scare mongering - this is complete bull****.
Ignition
18-03-2005, 14:40
The capability is there within the broadjump software to message users but this is kinda pointless as it requires that software be installed, also we could redirect IPs to a webpage informing them that they are getting a bit heavy with the usage, maybe ask them to agree to calm down by clicking a button before allowing them back onto the web (this is done by Cogeco.ca amongst others, and is properly described as a walled garden, as we did with virus infected custs last year).
We don't do EITHER right now though, and certainly wouldn't 'backdoor' people that's slightly over-emotive language and describes penetrating a user's PC, which is quite unnecessary as we own and operate the stuff custs connect to!
In summary, we *could* but *don't* at the mo.
<snip>
NTL at the momemnt are monitoring usage, as I have already indcated albiet in the wrong forum (Speed Discussion about a week ago),:notopic: They are basically 'backdooring' you on Port 80 (this Port is used by Hackers to HiJack your M/c) to flash a warning that you have exceeded your 1gb limit and if it continues they will disconnect the service, fear not Zone Alarm prevents them getting access to your m/c. they have been doing this since they went from "unlimited" to a capped service which happened before the introduction of the 1,2 and 3 Mb services, <snip>
A few points come to mind about this.
1) As has been stated before, NTL can monitor your usage WITHOUT going anywhere near your PC.
2) To successfully "backdoor" (as you put it), they would need to know what device you have (methods for backdooring PCs don't work on Linux or Macs for example).
3) To "backdoor" someone on port 80, they would need a program listening on port 80. The only software that does this by default is web serving software, which even on Windows (unless you install Windows 2000 Server, 2000 Advanced Server or NT Server) is not installed by default.
4) "backdooring" (or hacking as other people know it) is illegal. NTL would be opening themselves to potentially massive legal action if they did this. At the very least, there are all sorts of privacy laws they would be violating. Not to mention that if any legal action arose because of it, any figures they collected would be inadmissable in court (so, if they cut you off and you sued them, they would not be able to use the logs as evidence).
5) Any method they use on your PC would be open to abuse by you. You can bet that somebody would find a way to reset the total usage. NTL would not be able to rely on the figures provided this way.
6) There is a method that could be used to send messages to a Windows PC, but that relies on the user not blocking certain ports at their firewall, the Windows Messenger (note - nothing to do with MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger Instant Messenging) service would need to be running, and the user would need to run Windows. They would not be able to send to people who use Macs, Linux or any other OS for their primary computer.
In short, it would be far more trouble than it's worth for NTL to work this way. Especially as they can monitor downloading just by reading the uBR logs.
they dont drop your speed, how could they? your modem would have to be refreshed etc. they simply charge you on your next bill for any amount you have downloaded over your limit. i spoke to ntl yesterday and they said the amount/prices have not yet been 'released'.:)
Graham M
18-03-2005, 17:38
Oh My God!!!!!!!! Big brother has landed. :dozey:
From The Hosses mouth as it were.
http://www.home.ntl.com/page/userpolicy
this doc refers to 1gb downstream as the limit.:Yikes:
the options quoted by NTL are roughly as Ignition has stated.
NTL at the momemnt are monitoring usage, as I have already indcated albiet in the wrong forum (Speed Discussion about a week ago),:notopic: They are basically 'backdooring' you on Port 80 (this Port is used by Hackers to HiJack your M/c) to flash a warning that you have exceeded your 1gb limit and if it continues they will disconnect the service, fear not Zone Alarm prevents them getting access to your m/c. they have been doing this since they went from "unlimited" to a capped service which happened before the introduction of the 1,2 and 3 Mb services, doesn't anyone read the T&C's regularly,:erm: as NTL suggest you do this on a regular basis, as obviously they are a 'Fluid' organisation that are 'ProActive':LOL:
hope this helps sorry for goin on a bit
NSR:blush:
purenuman
18-03-2005, 17:55
they dont drop your speed, how could they? your modem would have to be refreshed etc. they simply charge you on your next bill for any amount you have downloaded over your limit. i spoke to ntl yesterday and they said the amount/prices have not yet been 'released'.:)
Want a bet? :D
You are not thinking out of the box! Your modem doesn't have to be touched if they can control the speed of data to your modem then you go slower ;)
i think we will have just wait for what will ntl do. this discussion showed that there can be a lot of different solutions. will wait and see:D
cookie_365
18-03-2005, 19:00
they dont drop your speed, how could they? your modem would have to be refreshed etc. they simply charge you on your next bill for any amount you have downloaded over your limit. i spoke to ntl yesterday and they said the amount/prices have not yet been 'released'.:)
PMSL :) !!
So phone NTL up and say you want to cancel your BB. If you're correct, than so long as you keep your modem powered up you'll carry on receiving free BB at the same speed.
Of course, you'll have to take into account the tiny possibility that you might be completely wrong ..... :rolleyes:
kid_a_lot
20-03-2005, 01:08
Is there a poll on these forums about how many are for and against about the ntl cap, I was hoping for a rebellion. "Quit making stupid decisions or we'll cancel our ntl services" type of thing.. fat chance I guess. I'm against the darn thing and would stop me downloading certain things I currently do.
I'm not clear about a few things, actually I'm not clear about a lot of things. I've not upgraded yet, still have 1.5mbit. Once you do go to 3mb is the 1Gb per day enforced? When are they planning to upgrade all their customers?
I only heard the news today, shows how much I care bout ntl stuff, and looked around for other ISP's in my area, I realised I haven't got many options so it'd be great if ntl come to their senses, visited by three ghosts during the night might do the trick, worked for one crazy old man that lived down the street. :)
purenuman
20-03-2005, 02:46
Is there a poll on these forums about how many are for and against about the ntl cap, I was hoping for a rebellion. "Quit making stupid decisions or we'll cancel our ntl services" type of thing.. fat chance I guess. I'm against the darn thing and would stop me downloading certain things I currently do.
I'm not clear about a few things, actually I'm not clear about a lot of things. I've not upgraded yet, still have 1.5mbit. Once you do go to 3mb is the 1Gb per day enforced? When are they planning to upgrade all their customers?
I only heard the news today, shows how much I care bout ntl stuff, and looked around for other ISP's in my area, I realised I haven't got many options so it'd be great if ntl come to their senses, visited by three ghosts during the night might do the trick, worked for one crazy old man that lived down the street. :)
.................................At the moment they have only spoken about hard capping the 1mb so none of the cap talk is relevant to 2&3mb.
NTL said 2&3mb will stay the same i.e. 1 gig a day guideline and you will be contacted if your excessive use impacts on other users.... No speed or tier drop etc.
PMSL :) !!
So phone NTL up and say you want to cancel your BB. If you're correct, than so long as you keep your modem powered up you'll carry on receiving free BB at the same speed.
Of course, you'll have to take into account the tiny possibility that you might be completely wrong ..... :rolleyes:
If they are going to lower your speed after you have gone over the limit.. please tell me, why on earth would they?? They can charge you for the amount you have gone over the limit, at your higher speed and make more money from you that way.:dozey:
What would they gain from lowering your speed? Sorry if i am not making sense to you but i don't understand the lowering the speed thing!!
purenuman
20-03-2005, 11:33
If they are going to lower your speed after you have gone over the limit.. please tell me, why on earth would they?? They can charge you for the amount you have gone over the limit, at your higher speed and make more money from you that way.:dozey:
What would they gain from lowering your speed? Sorry if i am not making sense to you but i don't understand the lowering the speed thing!!
If they want a limit they have to call a halt somewhere and blocking you completely is viewed as a little tooo harsh.....
If they want a limit they have to call a halt somewhere and blocking you completely is viewed as a little tooo harsh.....
but i am not saying they will block anyone, just that they will add charges to your account for going over the limit:confused:
Some people want a flat fee and wouldn't be too happy if their kids popped a bunch of charges onto their bill for downloading Linux ISO's ;)
If they give people the option of a reduced rate or more GB's at a cost they can't be accused of rampant price rises.
Well unfortunately that will be the case for anyone who doesnt keep track of their downloading. NTL confirmed this.
I was told, however, that if i was to go over my limit this month, they will let me off with any charges as it is my first time with this limit.
They do not yet know how much the charges will be.
cookie_365
20-03-2005, 14:55
If they are going to lower your speed after you have gone over the limit.. please tell me, why on earth would they?? They can charge you for the amount you have gone over the limit, at your higher speed and make more money from you that way.:dozey:
What would they gain from lowering your speed? Sorry if i am not making sense to you but i don't understand the lowering the speed thing!!
Errr, I don't think I mentioned lowering your speed ... :confused:
~$t&lKer~
20-03-2005, 14:58
i do not use a standard phoneline, i have signed up with vonage, it is a voip service, (voice over internet protocol) im on the 3mb service (when i signed it was unlimited and since ive not signed anything to the contrary it shall remain so if they dont like it ill leave) my concern is if they cut me of for going over the limit i will no longer have access to a phone or emergency services, so that in mind can they legally do this? especially as its also cutting of my phone service which youd need to give notice and would possibly be endangering children in the event of an emergency? is this a loophole? are they over a proverbial barrel?
or am i just too optimistic?
JohnHorb
20-03-2005, 15:02
From vonage T&Cs:-
Essential service information
By signing up to Vonage's services you confirm that you understand that our services:
~ may not offer all of the features you may expect from a conventional phone line;
~ may sometimes be unavailable as a result of things over which we have no control, for example, the weather, power disruptions and failures of your internet service provider (ISP) or broadband connection and you understand that in such circumstances all services (including 999/112 public emergency call services) will also be unavailable;
~ may not provide your phone number and location details to the operator if you make a public emergency services call. You will have to provide your location information and phone number verbally to the operator; and
~ may not offer you the ability to transfer (port) your existing number to a Vonage service or take your number from Vonage to an alternative provider if your service ends.
By signing up you specifically accept these restrictions as a condition of purchase.
~$t&lKer~
20-03-2005, 15:10
i accept that i couldent hold vonage responsible, but wondered as it was ntl cutting the connection if ntl could be held responsible, looks like im hoping too much, but in the future as voip increases it may become an issue,
i mean capping cant go on forever, tv via internet phone and pretty much everthing else, ntl are going to need to modernise eventually,
i dunno, rant over i spose.
i do not use a standard phoneline, i have signed up with vonage, it is a voip service, (voice over internet protocol) im on the 3mb service (when i signed it was unlimited and since ive not signed anything to the contrary it shall remain so if they dont like it ill leave) my concern is if they cut me of for going over the limit i will no longer have access to a phone or emergency services, so that in mind can they legally do this? especially as its also cutting of my phone service which youd need to give notice and would possibly be endangering children in the event of an emergency? is this a loophole? are they over a proverbial barrel?
or am i just too optimistic?
I suspect they can cut you off. NTL would probably argue that they provide you with a phone line anyway, so you could plug a phone into that.
Also, do you have a mobile? You could use that if you did (I believe all mobiles are required to allow access to emergency nos, such as 999, even if you have call barring enabled,are out of credit, or are in a bad signal area).
AFAIK, the only legal requirement is for BT to provide a phone line to the house. There is no legal requirement for an active phone service (or for any other provider to provide a line to your house).
BTW, regarding your contract. The way it was explained to me, as long as NTL give you reasonable notice of any changes, and don't restrict you from cancelling the contract, then they can count your continued usage of the service as acceptance of any new terms.
Well unfortunately that will be the case for anyone who doesnt keep track of their downloading. NTL confirmed this.
I was told, however, that if i was to go over my limit this month, they will let me off with any charges as it is my first time with this limit.
They do not yet know how much the charges will be.
So if i have this right you have beeen told bu NTL that you are to be charged if you go over the limit???, but not this month. appologies if i got this wrong..
why dont ntl inform peeps of what they doing b4 they do it either by email or hard copy
~$t&lKer~
20-03-2005, 15:57
I suspect they can cut you off. NTL would probably argue that they provide you with a phone line anyway, so you could plug a phone into that.
Also, do you have a mobile? You could use that if you did (I believe all mobiles are required to allow access to emergency nos, such as 999, even if you have call barring enabled,are out of credit, or are in a bad signal area).
AFAIK, the only legal requirement is for BT to provide a phone line to the house. There is no legal requirement for an active phone service (or for any other provider to provide a line to your house).
BTW, regarding your contract. The way it was explained to me, as long as NTL give you reasonable notice of any changes, and don't restrict you from cancelling the contract, then they can count your continued usage of the service as acceptance of any new terms.
i dont have an ntl phoneline at all so i couldent plug a phone into it. (well i could but it wouldent work lol)
i do have a mobile, i am being a little pedantic, just wondering if this is something that hasent been thought of yet, as it is the law you refer to of mobiles having to allow access to 999 that makes me ask.
ntl havent afaik notified me of any change in the contract, i need to start reading the small print.
not sure why u mention bt?
im on a sacm cable bb.
I suspect they can cut you off. NTL would probably argue that they provide you with a phone line anyway, so you could plug a phone into that.
Also, do you have a mobile? You could use that if you did (I believe all mobiles are required to allow access to emergency nos, such as 999, even if you have call barring enabled,are out of credit, or are in a bad signal area).
AFAIK, the only legal requirement is for BT to provide a phone line to the house. There is no legal requirement for an active phone service (or for any other provider to provide a line to your house).
BTW, regarding your contract. The way it was explained to me, as long as NTL give you reasonable notice of any changes, and don't restrict you from cancelling the contract, then they can count your continued usage of the service as acceptance of any new terms.
i dont have an ntl phoneline at all so i couldent plug a phone into it. (well i could but it wouldent work lol)
i do have a mobile, i am being a little pedantic, just wondering if this is something that hasent been thought of yet, as it is the law you refer to of mobiles having to allow access to 999 that makes me ask.
ntl havent afaik notified me of any change in the contract, i need to start reading the small print.
not sure why u mention bt?
I mentioned BT as they are the only company required to supply a phone line to every house. NTL (and other telecoms suppliers) are under no such obligation (IIRC).
Also, I don't think NTL are thinking of cutting anyone off if they go over the cap. I thought they were just going to give you the option of downgrading to 56K, upgrading to 2 Meg or paying extra.
As for Notification, well, NTL haven't exactly advertised the cap, but they have had some sort of cap for years, and it is in their acceptable use policy.
gimpymoo
20-03-2005, 17:58
I would not consider myself to be an active "pirate" and find it easy to reach the 1gb limit say once every 3 days if downloading game demos and mods etc. Please dont confuse me with one of those people who claim they need the bandwith to download the latest release candidate for Red-Hat, Lin-Spire, Mandrake etc on a daily basis. Anyone who uses that as their defence is a £$%wit in my opinion. Flame away, I dont care.
****TO GIVE NTL CREDIT******
I think theyve been fair SO FAR with their implementation of the cap. If theyre prepared to turn a blind eye to a few gb every now and again and dont become super officious (SP?) I'll be a happy NTL customer for many years to come.
bobdobbs
20-03-2005, 18:18
Stalker: As you haven't got a telephone line from ntl they are not obligated to ensure you have access to the emergency services. There is no requirement for BB connections to have access to the emergency services so people like you and I, who choose to use VoIP via BB, must accept that there is no guarantee of access to 999, if you want guaranteed access you MUST have a landline.
I mentioned BT as they are the only company required to supply a phone line to every house. NTL (and other telecoms suppliers) are under no such obligation (IIRC)
This has me intrigued. You believe that BT are obliged to provide connections to every house? Can you point me to somewhere that this can be confirmed. I was under the impression that a fee was payable to get a line from BT and as such obligation doesn't enter into it. Hope I don't sound like I'm trying to shoot you down, I'm merely curious.
Errr, I don't think I mentioned lowering your speed ... :confused:
i didn't say you did, i didnt mean to sound like i was diagreeing with you in anyway, i was talking about things other people had said perviously aswell as your comment!:)
__________________
So if i have this right you have beeen told bu NTL that you are to be charged if you go over the limit???, but not this month. appologies if i got this wrong..
that is exactly right!! he said seeing as though this is a new thing, and i quote; "they won't be that harsh on you the first time round."
cookie_365
20-03-2005, 22:02
i didn't say you did, i didnt mean to sound like i was diagreeing with you in anyway, i was talking about things other people had said perviously aswell as your comment!:)
Ah - okerly dokerly then - I'm easily confused see ! :dunce:
They did say 'later' in the year, didn't they - and I suppose next month is later than March the 8th ;)
As ever, we'll find out when we find out .....
eyeofthevirus
21-03-2005, 11:18
Hi, I have had a look at the posts and tried the find an answer but didnt really see one, but with the 1Mb service we have a 1Gb per day or 30GB per month Cap as we all know, but with that cap in mind the question i would like to know is, if we dont use all that 1GIG in 1 day does this follow onto the next day?
For example I download and program at 200Mb, will my remainding 800 or so (probley less with general other uses MSN etc) Mb left move onto the next day, so if i go mad and really suck up some data and go over that 1 gig is wont matter becuase I still have bandwidth left?
Cheers Craig
If you are on the 1Mb (prev. 300k) service, then according to the article at http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/145/ntl-broadband-upgrade-speeds-from-8th-march, you have a 3Gb a MONTH cap.
purenuman
21-03-2005, 11:35
Hi, I have had a look at the posts and tried the find an answer but didnt really see one, but with the 1Mb service we have a 1Gb per day or 30GB per month Cap as we all know, but with that cap in mind the question i would like to know is, if we dont use all that 1GIG in 1 day does this follow onto the next day?
For example I download and program at 200Mb, will my remainding 800 or so (probley less with general other uses MSN etc) Mb left move onto the next day, so if i go mad and really suck up some data and go over that 1 gig is wont matter becuase I still have bandwidth left?
Cheers Craig
No! The 1mb is going to be hard capped @ 3gig a month later in the year.
and for 2mb & 3mb it's not a cap! The the only "planned" cap is for the 1mb .......
Originally Posted by purenuman
NTL said 2&3mb will stay the same i.e. 1 gig a day guideline and you will be contacted if your excessive use impacts on other users.... No speed or tier drop etc.
eyeofthevirus
21-03-2005, 11:43
OPPs sorry lol I just read my post im on 750 awaiting 2MB upgrade, I must of hit the 1 and not the 2 LOL
So on the 2MB service its just a guildline of 1GIG per day and theres no carry over on each day or month etc
Craig
This has me intrigued. You believe that BT are obliged to provide connections to every house? Can you point me to somewhere that this can be confirmed. I was under the impression that a fee was payable to get a line from BT and as such obligation doesn't enter into it. Hope I don't sound like I'm trying to shoot you down, I'm merely curious.
BT are, or at least were, obliged to provide a phone line to anyone in the UK who wanted one.
I mentioned BT as they are the only company required to supply a phone line to every house. NTL (and other telecoms suppliers) are under no such obligation (IIRC)
This has me intrigued. You believe that BT are obliged to provide connections to every house? Can you point me to somewhere that this can be confirmed. I was under the impression that a fee was payable to get a line from BT and as such obligation doesn't enter into it. Hope I don't sound like I'm trying to shoot you down, I'm merely curious.
I did say "line". The Universal Service Obligation (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/uso/main/?a=87101) requires that they (or Kingston Communications) require that they provide a service on that line (should the user require it) at a reasonable price.
bobdobbs
21-03-2005, 15:51
Fair enough. I see The Register has an item on it too.
So if ntl are going to start charging people for downloading over there limit are they going to start giving refunds to people who havnt ?
Dont you think it should work both ways
paulyoung666
21-03-2005, 18:13
So if ntl are going to start charging people for downloading over there limit are they going to start giving refunds to people who havnt ?
Dont you think it should work both ways
no , it is upto the person to use as much as they can within the cap if they dont want to feel ripped off ;)
ian@huth
21-03-2005, 22:00
So if ntl are going to start charging people for downloading over there limit are they going to start giving refunds to people who havnt ?
Dont you think it should work both waysIt should be coming later in the year, metered broadband, pay for what you use. :)
scrotnig
21-03-2005, 22:11
i accept that i couldent hold vonage responsible, but wondered as it was ntl cutting the connection if ntl could be held responsible, looks like im hoping too much, but in the future as voip increases it may become an issue,
i mean capping cant go on forever, tv via internet phone and pretty much everthing else, ntl are going to need to modernise eventually,
i dunno, rant over i spose.
Nope. In telecomms terms, a VOIP service isn't a phone line. So yes, they can cut you off, and no, the fact that you then cannot dial the emergency services won't come into it.
If that sort of thing bothers you that much, get an ordinary phone line as backup, rather than relying on a currently unstabel 'emerging technology'.
one thing i would like to ask is..because of this 3mb connection i can now download movies in like 40 mins..(sweet)
so say one day i download 3 movies well over my limit of 1g a day. and then for 3 days i dont download anything because im at work or somthing does it all even out in the end ?
Hey. I'm on the 300k connection, and i've been told i can upgrade to 1MB by a friend. I checked the NTL site over and found out about the caps. I use WAY over 3gb a month, so i don't really want to upgrade. But, a question. Will i be safe to upgrade now? I heard the caps aren't coming into effect for a few months.
Thanks
th'engineer
22-03-2005, 06:35
Hey. I'm on the 300k connection, and i've been told i can upgrade to 1MB by a friend. I checked the NTL site over and found out about the caps. I use WAY over 3gb a month, so i don't really want to upgrade. But, a question. Will i be safe to upgrade now? I heard the caps aren't coming into effect for a few months.
Thanks
As said before upgrade now and look for alternatives before thecap is enforced or find an alternative provider now if you dont want caps
one thing i would like to ask is..because of this 3mb connection i can now download movies in like 40 mins..(sweet)
so say one day i download 3 movies well over my limit of 1g a day. and then for 3 days i dont download anything because im at work or somthing does it all even out in the end ?
Yes, i do believe so, NTL say the 1gb a day cap is a guide, and also as a guide to try not to download over 30gb a month. Well, this is what a customer service assistant told me....!! :shrug:
paulyoung666
22-03-2005, 09:42
Yes, i do believe so, NTL say the 1gb a day cap is a guide, and also as a guide to try not to download over 30gb a month. Well, this is what a customer service assistant told me....!! :shrug:
correct :)
Have you seen this?
http://home.ntl.com/page/usagefaq
go right to the bottom, where it says NTL will monitor usage... etc
i don't think we have anything to worry about just yet.
peterattheboro
23-03-2005, 03:32
Hi,
I'm not entirely sure about the situtation with these two providers.
I'm on NTL myself, subscribed to their 3MB service but along with that the 1gig a day cap.
Now when I got broadband installed i wasnt told about this and now im under contract for a year with NTL.
My question is, whats the deal with these two providers? .... Do they share the country or something? I'm also told that they are the same company. If thats true then why cant they both offer the exact same service.
I have a friend that is on Blueyonder his usage isnt capped but NTL's services are capped? I would much prefer to be with Blueyonder because of the unlimited access. My usage normally goes over the 1gb a day limit because I play a lot of online games which are quite demanding and I also listen to online radio a lot, as well as my normal webpage browsing. I find it disgraceful that NTL have to tell their customers how much to they can use their service for.
What's next? A cap on how long you can watch TV for? You can only watch Corrie and Eastenders. Watch anything else and we are going to cut off your channels!
PISH!
mrlipring
23-03-2005, 04:39
they're not the same company. There aren't any areas afaik where you can get both.
you can't really compare it to tv, as the bbc and itv still pay the same amount to transmit the stations whether people are watching or not, the bbc gets paid for by us, and ITV want you to watch as much as possible, since they get their revenue through advertising.
Internet usage, on the other hand, is paid for by NTL, and they are charged more if the users use it more. It's therefore in NTL's interest to try to get you to use less.
If you're not a bandwidth-hogging warez monkey, or someone who likes to download a HELL of a lot of linux distros, then you've nothing to fear really. If you DO go over the limit, it's by using your connection pretty normally, so there will be some negotiation there, i'd imagine. I'm sure if you were to vote with your money, and take your (i'm assuming) 3 services elsewhere, then they'd bend the rules.
jrhnewark
23-03-2005, 04:51
Sadly - normal usage does go over (around) 100MB a day.
Anyway, let's not have another caps thread. They aren't the same company - yet. If they were, us NTL users would end up being better off - and Telewest users would end up worse off!!
let's not have another caps thread.
We don't need more threads like this one! ;)
Edit: nevermind post was moved :dunce:
Electrolyte01
23-03-2005, 07:24
I think I should have upgraded to the 2MB service first, I'm only supposed to use 3GB per month, so far I have done 7.7GB of downloads :blush:
As said before upgrade now and look for alternatives before thecap is enforced or find an alternative provider now if you dont want caps
So If we decide that we dont want caps ( I'll be on 2 megs soon with cap, I now and again download iso's for Linux over night, plus my online radio ( 4 hours!))
Where do we go for cable here in Cardiff?
If I have to go to ADSL,
NTL lose the :
phone
TV
Broadband.
How much will they lose? over £ 50.00 a month, that's one customer leaving.
I dont mind 750 k to use as I see fit.
NTL have a problem with 'CHURN' , people leaving within a year, this is a large cost to them.
I hear of good deals all the time but I always think NTL have been good on the connection front so I stay.
Once we leave for ADSL they wont get us back that easy.
A strange way to run a comapny!
Cheers
Bob
;)
Funny,
First time I use this forum to complain,
I get a letter from another company offering 4 meg b/band with no caps!!
on ADSL, and free uk calls for less than I pay NTL.
Some one is doing their homework.
Anyone used www.bulldogbroadband.com (http://www.bulldogbroadband.com) ?
Any catches?
Cheers
Bob
:)
th'engineer
25-03-2005, 07:08
Funny,
First time I use this forum to complain,
I get a letter from another company offering 4 meg b/band with no caps!!
on ADSL, and free uk calls for less than I pay NTL.
Some one is doing their homework.
Anyone used www.bulldogbroadband.com (http://www.bulldogbroadband.com/) ?
Any catches?
Cheers
Bob
:)
Bob that looks an excellent offer thanks for the link when are you signing up
For the first time i can recall there was a Bulldog advert on tele yesterday. I think they can see the market for a "no cap at all" service.
Unless like Nildram they just bring it in later. :(
However it is about £39pm for the phoneline and 4 meg adsl, if you can get it, its very tempting. :)
th'engineer
25-03-2005, 07:35
For the first time i can recall there was a Bulldog advert on tele yesterday. I think they can see the market for a "no cap at all" service.
Unless like Nildram they just bring it in later. :(
However it is about £39pm for the phoneline and 4 meg adsl, if you can get it, its very tempting. :)
Personally think that NTL will need to introduce a "new un- capped service" to stay with the competition.:tu:
Hang on a minute is that not where it all started:D
I must have been listening to Bill Goodland NTLs meglamaniac 5 year plan.
First we cap then a little he he ,then a lot and charge them he he.
Then bring in a un capped as a new service which they had origanally and charge the idiots loads more he he.
And take over telewest because they keep coming up with better ideas.:D
dirtydog
25-03-2005, 10:06
Have you seen this?
http://home.ntl.com/page/usagefaq
Hmm according to that - for the 1Mb service at least - the limit DOES include upload usage as well. It is explicitly spelt out there, which I've never seen before from ntl. Presumably therefore, the 30GB limit for the 2&3Mb services also includes uploads. Well I've already done over 70GB in March.. oops :erm: (that's up and down, btw)
ONe thing is conveniently forgotten about the whole capping story. A few years ago some of the Oz ISP's decided to cap users and people over here started getting worried. ntl: was the first BB ISP to really bring the topic up and people were quick to say "Well look at XYZ ADSL - they arent capped." Well a year and a bit down the line most BB ISP's are looking at or already have implemented capping. How long do you honestly think things will go on for the ISP's who dont cap? Eventually even they will have to throttle the big users back too or face complaints from other users.
__________________
So If we decide that we dont want caps ( I'll be on 2 megs soon with cap, I now and again download iso's for Linux over night, plus my online radio ( 4 hours!))
Where do we go for cable here in Cardiff?
If I have to go to ADSL,
NTL lose the :
phone
TV
Broadband.
How much will they lose? over £ 50.00 a month, that's one customer leaving.
I dont mind 750 k to use as I see fit.
NTL have a problem with 'CHURN' , people leaving within a year, this is a large cost to them.
I hear of good deals all the time but I always think NTL have been good on the connection front so I stay.
Once we leave for ADSL they wont get us back that easy.
A strange way to run a comapny!
Cheers
Bob
;)
Kedman ntl: faces a hard decision. The BB network is more than sufficient for the everyday Joe. However as soon as things start getting bad they start complaining. Would ntl prefer to lose three light customers who are sick of being affected by one customers slow downloads or would they prefer to risk losing that one heavy downloader? If I were in the bosses shoes I know which one I would worry less about.
I do not have a problem with capping - you come from my part of the world and you get a 3meg monthly cap on your 512k ADSL. However I do think that ntl: could ahve used a bit more sense and possibly only had bandwidth monitored between 08:00am and say 10:00pm as do some ISP's.
th'engineer
25-03-2005, 12:03
Kedman ntl: faces a hard decision. The BB network is more than sufficient for the everyday Joe. However as soon as things start getting bad they start complaining. Would ntl prefer to lose three light customers who are sick of being affected by one customers slow downloads or would they prefer to risk losing that one heavy downloader? If I were in the bosses shoes I know which one I would worry less about.
I do not have a problem with capping - you come from my part of the world and you get a 3meg monthly cap on your 512k ADSL. However I do think that ntl: could ahve used a bit more sense and possibly only had bandwidth monitored between 08:00am and say 10:00pm as do some ISP's.
Good argument but the original cap was brought in to save money on upgrading the equipment because it was over subscribed past its working capacity.
Have you not listened to the Bill Goodland tapes they are quite enlightening on NTLs view of the customers (idiots with no tech knowledge) and thats from the man in charge of it. Bill Goodland
they dont drop your speed, how could they? your modem would have to be refreshed etc. they simply charge you on your next bill for any amount you have downloaded over your limit. i spoke to ntl yesterday and they said the amount/prices have not yet been 'released'.:)
Of course they can - they can reset your modem remotely, otherwise how would they be able to increase your speeds. They haven't said they will charge you on your next bill either.
__________________
Bob that looks an excellent offer thanks for the link when are you signing up
BUT, you have to pay a £50 connection fee, the price goes up after 3 months, and you have to buy all the hardware....
Bob that looks an excellent offer thanks for the link when are you signing up
I take it then from your post that you will be taking that up as well then ?
Of course they can - they can reset your modem remotely, otherwise how would they be able to increase your speeds. They haven't said they will charge you on your next bill either.
What i meant by that is, NTL wouldn't do this as it is an awful lot of hassle for them. My point there was being this:
Why would Ntl drop your speed when if they keep you at that higher speed and you download say, 4gb over your limit they can charge you by the mb for this?
When lowering your speed wouldn't help anything except maybe help control the amount of traffic on the network. Somehow I think Ntl will go for the former option rather than the latter.
purenuman
29-03-2005, 21:40
Why would Ntl drop your speed when if they keep you at that higher speed and you download say, 4gb over your limit they can charge you by the mb for this?
Because they understand some people will not want to pay a penny more and cutting them off completely would be seen as being far tooo harsh.
Some ADSL ISPs do it, why would it not work for NTL?
th'engineer
30-03-2005, 07:09
I take it then from your post that you will be taking that up as well then ?
You need to read it again was asking him when "he" was signing up thought you would know my comments by now.:D
It seems a bit pointless to me if people are posting offers from other ISPs and not acting on them.:rolleyes:
I just agreed that it was a good offer, which even you must agree it is not a bad offer if you was considering changing to another ISP.
Which i am not as yet .:p:
As you know have been and hopefully will be here a long long time :LOL:
Bill puts tin hat on:angel:
You need to read it again was asking him when "he" was signing up thought you would know my comments by now.:D
It seems a bit pointless to me if people are posting offers from other ISPs and not acting on them.:rolleyes:
I just agreed that it was a good offer, which even you must agree it is not a bad offer if you was considering changing to another ISP.
Which i am not as yet .:p:
As you know have been and hopefully will be here a long long time :LOL:
Bill puts tin hat on:angel:
Nice answer :LOL:
now where is that tin hat :)
th'engineer
30-03-2005, 07:49
Nice answer :LOL:
now where is that tin hat :)
you missed your website link in my sig:D
you missed your website link in my sig:D
You know my feelings on those type of vehicals. Lets not go :notopic: :angel:
However thanks for the link will use it when i need a good :rant:
For the first time i can recall there was a Bulldog advert on tele yesterday. I think they can see the market for a "no cap at all" service.
Unless like Nildram they just bring it in later. :(
However it is about £39pm for the phoneline and 4 meg adsl, if you can get it, its very tempting. :)
It looks tempting yes. Mind you I can't seem to find the bit on their site anywhere that guarantees they won't introduce a cap when they have got everyone tied in for their 12 months!!! Don't all be ignorant, they can all do it anytime. It is common to attract new customers by being better than the competition, but as soon as they realise that heavy downloaders are affecting their service they will introduce caps too.
Ignition
31-03-2005, 11:16
but as soon as they realise that heavy downloaders are affecting their service they will introduce caps too.
In my experience with Bull**** let service degrade badly then they just blame BT for not upgrading them on time... then you later find out the upgrades weren't ordered and BT actually rushed to get them in once ordered.
Last time BD had serious performance issues they were ongoing for more than 2 months and a combination of lack of interconnect with BT, lack of transit bandwidth out to the internet, misconfiguration on their new router and a failure to rollback the change to the old one.
Will find my posts from back then if I can.
DieDieMyDarling
31-03-2005, 11:40
In my experience with Bull**** let service degrade badly then they just blame BT for not upgrading them on time... then you later find out the upgrades weren't ordered and BT actually rushed to get them in once ordered.
Last time BD had serious performance issues they were ongoing for more than 2 months and a combination of lack of interconnect with BT, lack of transit bandwidth out to the internet, misconfiguration on their new router and a failure to rollback the change to the old one.
Will find my posts from back then if I can.
Jesus, they sound nearly as bad as ntl. :D
th'engineer
31-03-2005, 18:20
Jesus, they sound nearly as bad as ntl. :D
They are owned by Cable & Wireless was that not a cable provider before NTL:disturbd:
Flubflow
01-04-2005, 03:03
Got this alarming email from NTL AUP today.
What should I do?
re:Bandwith Usage
Dear Mr.(my real name removed)
You will be aware, from our terms of service and acceptable usage policies, that the acceptable level of bandwidth on your 2mbs connection tier is limit is 1GB per day (30Gb per month).
We are aware that you are currenly underachieving your bandwidth allowance and we advise that you either increase your usage or downgrade to the 1Mb tier where you will find 3Gb per month more suited to your needs.
If you do not wish to downgrade then please may we offer some suggestions as to how you can increase your bandwidth usage:-
1) Leave your PC on overnight downloading as many DVDs and Warez as possible.
2) Take a few days off work every month (whilst the wife/girlfriend is at work) and download as much top notch porn as you can.
3) Get a router and another PC with a big fat hard disk and start sharing 24/7 all those MP3's we know that you've downloaded over the years. If you haven't got enough then we can email you some from our collection.
We hope you will comply with these suggestions. If you have any questions regarding this letter then please do not hesitate to ask.
Yours Sincrely,
Flora Poil
Acceptable Use Policy Team
NTL
Robert Atkins
01-04-2005, 05:25
Got this alarming email from NTL AUP today.
What should I do?
re:Bandwith Usage
Dear Mr.(my real name removed)
You will be aware, from our terms of service and acceptable usage policies, that the acceptable level of bandwidth on your 2mbs connection tier is limit is 1GB per day (30Gb per month).
We are aware that you are currenly underachieving your bandwidth allowance and we advise that you either increase your usage or downgrade to the 1Mb tier where you will find 3Gb per month more suited to your needs.
If you do not wish to downgrade then please may we offer some suggestions as to how you can increase your bandwidth usage:-
1) Leave your PC on overnight downloading as many DVDs and Warez as possible.
2) Take a few days off work every month (whilst the wife/girlfriend is at work) and download as much top notch porn as you can.
3) Get a router and another PC with a big fat hard disk and start sharing 24/7 all those MP3's we know that you've downloaded over the years. If you haven't got enough then we can email you some from our collection.
We hope you will comply with these suggestions. If you have any questions regarding this letter then please do not hesitate to ask.
Yours Sincrely,
Flora Poil
Acceptable Use Policy Team
NTL
I got the same letter myself (3 times as I have 3 modems bridged maxing out @9Mbs). I followed their advice and I upped my setup (see sig). I hope with the new setup to be able to meet the 3x30G monthly limit.
I got the same letter myself (3 times as I have 3 modems bridged maxing out @9Mbs). I followed their advice and I upped my setup (see sig). I hope with the new setup to be able to meet the 3x30G monthly limit.
Happy April Fool's Day
It was funny, even funnier when i realised Flora Poil is an anagram of April Fool. :)
oldsk00l
03-04-2005, 13:34
30,000MB or 32,768MB hmm . arrrrgh ->
What is a 'gigabyte'?
A gigabyte is a measure of data. Everything that is sent or received over the Internet is made up of data - whether it is a web page, an email or a music track. One gigabyte (GB) is one thousand megabytes (MB), and one megabyte is one thousand kilobytes (KB).
and a kilobyte is 1000 and 24 bytes.. and we all KNOW a byte is ONE THOUSAND bits :p
< snipped>and a kilobyte is 1000 and 24 bytes.. and we all KNOW a byte is ONE THOUSAND bits :p strange i was taught that
8 bits = 1 byte
1024 bytes = 1 kilobyte
1024 kilobytes = 1 megabyte
1024 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
1024 gigabytes = 1 terabyte
but thats just disk storage, speeds are usually rounded down to 1000
oldsk00l
04-04-2005, 11:40
i was quoting ntls explanation of what a gigabyte is. (but joking about 1000 bits in a byte) so there 30gb / month is actually 27gb in real life? 2,768MB short of 30GB .. woe is me ;p
doubt they would be that fussy tho about 3gb here n there
paulyoung666
04-04-2005, 12:48
i was quoting ntls explanation of what a gigabyte is. (but joking about 1000 bits in a byte) so there 30gb / month is actually 27gb in real life? 2,768MB short of 30GB .. woe is me ;p
doubt they would be that fussy tho about 3gb here n there
hi and :welcome: to the site , if it is soft capped i doubt they would bother , if it is going to be hard capped then it may well be a different matter :disturbd:
i was quoting ntls explanation of what a gigabyte is. (but joking about 1000 bits in a byte) so there 30gb / month is actually 27gb in real life? 2,768MB short of 30GB .. woe is me ;p
doubt they would be that fussy tho about 3gb here n there
oddly enough since the >1meg started they (ntl) seem to have conformed and now use speed *1024 to show what you should get (less any overheads), my 3m line regularly reports in DU meter downloads at 3.07Mbps if I see any below 2.96 I get the panic sign out :).
Not too sure how they are going to count the downloads though, knowing NTL it'll be 'short measure', probably redefine 1G=100M, but until the 'official' ruling we'll just have to play the waiting game
Well heres hoping they take notice of the posts in this forum, there are enough of them complaining about any form of cap. I myself joined ntl broadband when it was advertised as unlimited & as such that was how i percieved my connection as unlimited. Also with these reports of cable being tested for the advent of 10mb services i think that any mention of a cap sounds fishy
cookie_365
06-04-2005, 22:58
Well heres hoping they take notice of the posts in this forum, there are enough of them complaining about any form of cap. I myself joined ntl broadband when it was advertised as unlimited & as such that was how i percieved my connection as unlimited. Also with these reports of cable being tested for the advent of 10mb services i think that any mention of a cap sounds fishy
NTL don't give a monkeys about what we post in this forum. They have millions of customers. Just because a few of us are sad enough to post to forums like this doesn't make our £24.99/whatever a month any more valuable to them than that paid by Mr or Ms Average ;)
paulyoung666
06-04-2005, 23:00
NTL don't give a monkeys about what we post in this forum. They have millions of customers. Just because a few of us are sad enough to post to forums like this doesn't make our £24.99/whatever a month any more valuable to them than that paid by Mr or Ms Average ;)
sad :mad: , i should so red rep you out of existence for that comment :erm: :D :D :D
NTL don't give a monkeys about what we post in this forum. They have millions of customers. Just because a few of us are sad enough to post to forums like this doesn't make our £24.99/whatever a month any more valuable to them than that paid by Mr or Ms Average ;)I think you may be surprised how much interest ntl take in this forum ;)
ian@huth
06-04-2005, 23:40
Well heres hoping they take notice of the posts in this forum, there are enough of them complaining about any form of cap. I myself joined ntl broadband when it was advertised as unlimited & as such that was how i percieved my connection as unlimited. Also with these reports of cable being tested for the advent of 10mb services i think that any mention of a cap sounds fishyNTL won't take the slightest bit of notice of the complaints about the cap in this thread.
Caps are necessary because of the limitations of the current infrastructure and the technology used in it. There will be changes in this as technology advances and new avenues are explored. NTL supplied 10Mb connections some time ago in Dolphin Square IIRC.
Edit. It is probably wrong to say that they won't take notice. What I should have said is that the complaints won't alter the decisions they have made. The problem with complaints in a forum such as this is that there appear to be more of them due to the same members repeatedly posting the same thing. Additionally one member could post under several different IDs giving a false impression of the feelings being aired. We don't know and it is impossible to ascertain if this is actually the case.
cookie_365
06-04-2005, 23:42
I think you may be surprised how much interest ntl take in this forum ;)
I'm preparing to be bemused right now :)
funkyhitman
08-04-2005, 16:46
Hi I was just wondering does anyone know when the daily limit resets? Is it midnight?
purenuman
08-04-2005, 18:37
Hi I was just wondering does anyone know when the daily limit resets? Is it midnight?
2mb & 3mb don't have a limit (and none planned...yet), just a usage guide of 1gig a day.
If you go way over this and your excessive usage causes problems for other users in your area you "may" be contacted by NTL to ask if you could take it easy........ Nothing to reset!
1mb will have a hard capped limit later in the year and the usage allowance is 3gig a month so I guess the reset will be the first of the month when this happens....
Hi I was just wondering does anyone know when the daily limit resets? Is it midnight?
I also am led to believe that there is no hard limit on this. The general guide is 1 gb per day= aim to stay under 30gb per month. I think this is worded as such to discourage 'occasional' users (ie, someone who doesnt go on every day) from downloading all 30gb in one day and jamming up the network.
Just my reckoning!
-=BULLDOGG=-
20-04-2005, 12:24
well tbfh this gets on my wick a bit and like someone said in an earlier post stuff ntl ill download how much i like as ive been doing and if they dont like it they can take a run and jump off the highest building they can find coz ill cancell my package and get another isp..... ive never known such a bunch of ****ers as ntl excuse my french :P
orangebird
20-04-2005, 12:30
well tbfh this gets on my wick a bit and like someone said in an earlier post stuff ntl ill download how much i like as ive been doing and if they dont like it they can take a run and jump off the highest building they can find coz ill cancell my package and get another isp..... ive never known such a bunch of ****ers as ntl excuse my french :P
I don't think ntl will be too bothered if you're a hogger and you leave... :shrug:
Ignition
20-04-2005, 13:16
well tbfh this gets on my wick a bit and like someone said in an earlier post stuff ntl ill download how much i like as ive been doing and if they dont like it they can take a run and jump off the highest building they can find coz ill cancell my package and get another isp..... ive never known such a bunch of ****ers as ntl excuse my french :P
Obviously you've never met Plusnet, Wanadoo, BT, Tiscali, etc, etc, etc.
Please do cancel your package, don't let anyone here stop you.
__________________
NTL supplied 10Mb connections some time ago in Dolphin Square IIRC.
100Mbps actually, rather nice it was too.
-=BULLDOGG=-
20-04-2005, 13:23
its not a case of being a hogger its a case of not having a sufficient download limit 1gb a day wtf is that its poo thats what!!! and i will continue to downlod 4 gb files to my hearts contents till ntl have something to say about it as of yet they havent, but looking on the ntl its saying nothing about the 2mb and 3mb lines being capped now only the 1mb line
orangebird
20-04-2005, 13:25
its not a case of being a hogger its a case of not having a sufficient download limit 1gb a day wtf is that its poo thats what!!! and i will continue to downlod 4 gb files to my hearts contents till ntl have something to say about it as of yet they havent, but looking on the ntl its saying nothing about the 2mb and 3mb lines being capped now only the 1mb line
If you check the AUP (and it is ALL customers agreed responsibility to check this regularly), the 'cap' limits are there.
What on earth do you need to d/l 3 or 4 gig a day for :confused:
Ignition
20-04-2005, 13:29
If you check the AUP (and it is ALL customers agreed responsibility to check this regularly), the 'cap' limits are there.
What on earth do you need to d/l 3 or 4 gig a day for :confused:
DVD movies most likely, not much else you can pull masses of 4GB files down with.
Incidentally the chap said he is doing 10GB a day, not 3 or 4, just each file is 4. :angel:
Makes me chuckle actually, I have a premium news group account, etc, and unlimited 2Mbps DSL and the highest I've managed in a month is 50GB. How people can do hundreds is a mystery, still c'est la vie.
orangebird
20-04-2005, 13:32
DVD movies most likely, not much else you can pull masses of 4GB files down with.
Incidentally the chap said he is doing 10GB a day, not 3 or 4, just each file is 4. :angel:
Makes me chuckle actually, I have a premium news group account, etc, and unlimited 2Mbps DSL and the highest I've managed in a month is 50GB. How people can do hundreds is a mystery, still c'est la vie.
Linux distros, you big silly! :dunce: ;)
Makes me chuckle actually, I have a premium news group account, etc, and unlimited 2Mbps DSL and the highest I've managed in a month is 50GB. How people can do hundreds is a mystery, still c'est la vie.
Same here.. The funny thing is, a lot of people use downloading OSes (and particularly Linux) as an excuse. I frequently download all sorts of OSes (even Windows thanks to the joys of the MSDN Academic Alliance), and rarely, if ever, go anywhere near the cap..
Linux distros, you big silly! :dunce: ;)
:LOL:
its not a case of being a hogger its a case of not having a sufficient download limit 1gb a day wtf is that its poo thats what!!! and i will continue to downlod 4 gb files to my hearts contents till ntl have something to say about it as of yet they havent, but looking on the ntl its saying nothing about the 2mb and 3mb lines being capped now only the 1mb line
I thought you were leaving? Hope you do.....
Bye
paulyoung666
20-04-2005, 17:40
its not a case of being a hogger its a case of not having a sufficient download limit 1gb a day wtf is that its poo thats what!!! and i will continue to downlod 4 gb files to my hearts contents till ntl have something to say about it as of yet they havent, but looking on the ntl its saying nothing about the 2mb and 3mb lines being capped now only the 1mb line
i reckon you wont last much longer if you carry on like that , but hey ho i dont think ntl would be too displeased to get shot of you ;)
Monster Jedi
20-04-2005, 18:11
i reckon you wont last much longer if you carry on like that , but hey ho i dont think ntl would be too displeased to get shot of you ;)
Since the upgrade. I've downloaded 435gigs. If NTL implement TV through web streaming ect. . You will need to have a 8meg line min for it. So if a cap does come into effect . NTL will have a serious problem to deal with .
ian@huth
21-04-2005, 08:59
Since the upgrade. I've downloaded 435gigs. If NTL implement TV through web streaming ect. . You will need to have a 8meg line min for it. So if a cap does come into effect . NTL will have a serious problem to deal with .And people ask why there should be caps.
orangebird
21-04-2005, 09:03
And people ask why there should be caps.
You read my mind... :rolleyes: :tu:
Monster Jedi
21-04-2005, 09:12
And people ask why there should be caps.
I was on the broadband service 2 weeks after NTL started it. So why now???
I was on the broadband service 2 weeks after NTL started it. So why now???
Goodness, so you've been hogging bandwidth for ever! Ntl must be really fed up with you.
Monster Jedi
21-04-2005, 11:24
Goodness, so you've been hogging bandwidth for ever! Ntl must be really fed up with you.
Well forever is a very long time. I have not been around that long nor has anyone else to my Knowledge. If NTL was fed up with me now. I would no longer be with them.
Why do people justify paying more money to companys. Especially when they don't work for the company and they don't get anything out of it. It won't help you keep your job. Everyone is replaceable. It's no wonder there's poverty and debt in this country. It's about time to grow up people
orangebird
21-04-2005, 11:31
Well forever is a very long time. I have not been around that long nor has anyone else to my Knowledge. If NTL was fed up with me now. I would no longer be with them.
Why do people justify paying more money to companys. Especially when they don't work for the company and they don't get anything out of it. It won't help you keep your job. Everyone is replaceable. It's no wonder there's poverty and debt in this country. It's about time to grow up people
That must be the most amusing post I have read in a long time on here....
So, by you paying less and taking more, that'll get rid of poverty will it? :rolleyes:
And grow up? I suggest you pratice exactly what you preach. :dunce:
Monster Jedi
21-04-2005, 11:46
That must be the most amusing post I have read in a long time on here....
So, by you paying less and taking more, that'll get rid of poverty will it? :rolleyes:
And grow up? I suggest you pratice exactly what you preach. :dunce:
The poverty bit is about how high it is in this country to live here. Why should you have pay for something that was free before??. And as for the:dunce: bit. heres one for just for you https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2005/04/8.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxmk663AXGB) :D
Why do people justify paying more money to companys. Especially when they don't work for the company and they don't get anything out of it. It won't help you keep your job. Everyone is replaceable. It's no wonder there's poverty and debt in this country. It's about time to grow up people
Who has justified paying more to NTL? I personally wouldn't go around saying "I'm not paying enough for my broadband! I demand to pay more". I may wonder from time to time how much profit NTL are making out of me, but I certainly wouldn't complain if it's not enough.
If you are referring to the Caps, then, where I have attempted to "justify" the caps, it is simply to point out that NTL has bandwidth problems at some UBRs. As far as I can see, the Caps are an attempt to alleviate those problems without spending money on major upgrades just to keep one or two users happy (after all, NTL is a business - they will not spend £000's of pounds just to keep one or two customers that pay £34.99 a month happy). BTW, I don't defend NTL because I think that I (or anyone else I know) will gain anything from it, but if I can see why they are doing something, I will point that out.
Not sure I understand your comments about poverty. Broadband *is* expensive in this country, but TBH anyone who is really poor is unlikely to even have a PC, let alone use broadband.
orangebird
21-04-2005, 11:48
The poverty bit is about how high it is in this country to live here. Why should you have pay for something that was free before??. And as for the:dunce: bit. heres one for just for you https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2005/04/8.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxmk663AXGB) :D
ntl have NEVER given BB away for free. All they've done is increase you're speeds (in some cases by 300%) for FREE. And you still whinge. :monkey:
Monster Jedi
21-04-2005, 13:56
Not sure I understand your comments about poverty. Broadband *is* expensive in this country, but TBH anyone who is really poor is unlikely to even have a PC, let alone use broadband. Quote Scastle
What is ment by that is price hikes. Not enough money comming in. When your expendicture is more. When you can afford something then you when the price increases. I know a few people on the poverty line. i have done them a pc for there kids to be educated on nothing special. A p3 800 ect Monitor keyboard mouse ect. I charge 20 quid for the system . I buy them at car boot sales. I buy a few base units then make a decient one. It helps the kids out and keeps them off the streets. It helps towards their education. The government should be helping these families. But I'm a softie at heart.;)
ian@huth
21-04-2005, 14:00
Not sure I understand your comments about poverty. Broadband *is* expensive in this country, but TBH anyone who is really poor is unlikely to even have a PC, let alone use broadband. Quote Scastle
What is ment by that is price hikes. Not enough money comming in. When your expendicture is more. When you can afford something then you when the price increases. I know a few people on the poverty line. i have done them a pc for there kids to be educated on nothing special. A p3 800 ect Monitor keyboard mouse ect. I charge 20 quid for the system . I buy them at car boot sales. I buy a few base units then make a decient one. It helps the kids out and keeps them off the streets. It helps towards their education. The government should be helping these families. But I'm a softie at heart.;)Good on you Monster. Hope that them having Linux on isn't a problem. :)
Monster Jedi
21-04-2005, 15:16
Good on you Monster. Hope that them having Linux on isn't a problem. :)
Power to da penguine;)
Not sure I understand your comments about poverty. Broadband *is* expensive in this country, but TBH anyone who is really poor is unlikely to even have a PC, let alone use broadband. Quote Scastle
What is ment by that is price hikes. Not enough money comming in. When your expendicture is more. When you can afford something then you when the price increases. I know a few people on the poverty line. i have done them a pc for there kids to be educated on nothing special. A p3 800 ect Monitor keyboard mouse ect. I charge 20 quid for the system . I buy them at car boot sales. I buy a few base units then make a decient one. It helps the kids out and keeps them off the streets. It helps towards their education. The government should be helping these families. But I'm a softie at heart.;)Good on you Monster. Hope that them having Linux on isn't a problem. :)
Good man!
sorry but i dont want to read the whole thread can someone summerise what the latest on the caps are
will it be 1gb/day on 2mb/3mbit? or will it be 30gb a month (as in you get 30gb for the month but it doesnt matter if u use 3gb somedays but only 10mb others)
also how strictly will it be enforced?
and when is it happening.
ok, I have been talking to an NTL person lately and according to their official internal releases, the usage cap merely drops you down to the old speed (750K/1.5mb) for the rest of the 24hr period when you go over the 1gb per day on the 2mb/3mb service, or to 300K for the rest of the month on the 1mb service if you go over 3gb
Ignition
21-04-2005, 21:37
ok, I have been talking to an NTL person lately and according to their official internal releases, the usage cap merely drops you down to the old speed (750K/1.5mb) for the rest of the 24hr period when you go over the 1gb per day on the 2mb/3mb service, or to 300K for the rest of the month on the 1mb service if you go over 3gb
Bullsh*t to be blunt.
ok, I have been talking to an NTL person lately and according to their official internal releases, the usage cap merely drops you down to the old speed (750K/1.5mb) for the rest of the 24hr period when you go over the 1gb per day on the 2mb/3mb service, or to 300K for the rest of the month on the 1mb service if you go over 3gb
wouldnt be to bad if true...
dirtydog
22-04-2005, 08:07
I see the sanctimonious cap lovers are still predominant in this thread :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I see the sanctimonious cap lovers are still predominant in this thread :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I see the sanctimonious cap haters are still predominant in this thread :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
i hate the prospect of caps BUT it may be that they are not as be as bad first thought.
If this is the case with these caps, i am gonna be a hell of a lot happier, but not as happy as if the service was uncapped.
Ignition
22-04-2005, 11:24
If this is the case with these caps
It isn't.
-=BULLDOGG=-
22-04-2005, 11:38
ok, I have been talking to an NTL person lately and according to their official internal releases, the usage cap merely drops you down to the old speed (750K/1.5mb) for the rest of the 24hr period when you go over the 1gb per day on the 2mb/3mb service, or to 300K for the rest of the month on the 1mb service if you go over 3gb
well this dont sound too bad i will stop my moaning if this is true i can live pretty comfortably with that :D cheers m8
well this dont sound too bad i will stop my moaning if this is true i can live pretty comfortably with that :D cheers m8
check out Ignition's post above. Ignition is an NTL tech. He says this is completely untrue.
i will stop my moaning if this is true
It isn't.
Well going by the backlash that Plus net are getting from there users over changing the rules & all the complaing about caps on here it looks like ukonline
with their price cuts & still uncapped service are on to a winner. down side is its only available in small areas at present but its obvious these areas will increase. i for one will be joining them when they get to my area
ian@huth
22-04-2005, 18:23
Well going by the backlash that Plus net are getting from there users over changing the rules & all the complaing about caps on here it looks like ukonline
with their price cuts & still uncapped service are on to a winner. down side is its only available in small areas at present but its obvious these areas will increase. i for one will be joining them when they get to my areaThere are other considerations which are even more obvious. ;)
There are other considerations which are even more obvious. ;)
As far as i am aware UKOnliones price cuts do not apply to everyone i have just checked mine and i dont qualify for the reduced price, because my services are supplied by BT or something like that. So that leaves me wit 2meg for 30 quid a month. Looks like i will be staying with NTL for a bit longer then.
purenuman
22-04-2005, 19:43
I see the sanctimonious cap haters are still predominant in this thread :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The new PC name for them is 'Linux addicts' :D
:rofl: :rofl:
The new PC name for them is 'Linux addicts' :D
:rofl: :rofl:
:LOL:
dirtydog
22-04-2005, 21:09
The new PC name for them is 'Linux addicts' :D
:rofl: :rofl:
:dozey: yawn
Chrysalis
23-04-2005, 01:10
Since the launching of ukonline 9.99 product plusnet have changed their capping policy.
zitianaki
23-04-2005, 02:14
Great news! UK Online Broadband 8000 is available in your area.
You can receive the service and should be able to achieve up to 8Mb download speeds.
Great offer £29.99 for 8MB/400k ... but seems to me like ntl will have the advantage when adsl2+ comes out seing as ntl is on a fibre network, maybe ntl will be the better option in the long run.. lot better then copper network, if the cap/price is right :angel:
Ignition
23-04-2005, 02:49
Since the launching of ukonline 9.99 product plusnet have changed their capping policy.
I'd hardly describe it as a policy, looks more to me like FUD. The FAQ for it reads like a post graduate thesis in time delay reflectometry.
They're doing everything they can to not admit they cap, end of the day at least NTL offer you guidelines and you don't need a PhD in FUD to understand them.
It isn't.
And you know this because.....
__________________
:LOL: ok, I have been talking to an NTL person lately and according to their official internal releases, the usage cap merely drops you down to the old speed (750K/1.5mb) for the rest of the 24hr period when you go over the 1gb per day on the 2mb/3mb service, or to 300K for the rest of the month on the 1mb service if you go over 3gb
And this Ntl 'person' is ?!?
purenuman
23-04-2005, 16:42
And this Ntl 'person' is ?!?
Imaginary????
Did I win??
And my prize is???
:D :angel:
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.