View Full Version : *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
This is a continuation of the original Speed Thread here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=22519)
seaneeboy
17-02-2005, 16:24
A few people towards the end of the old thread were mentioning child safty on the internet - can I reccommend the Barnardo's findings available here:
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/resources/internetsafety/index.jsp
or for further reading, the award winning "Just one click" report:
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/whatwedo/campaigns/justoneclick/
Cheers,
Sean
I'm struggling to see what this has to do with the speed upgrades. :confused:
Previously on the speed thread :-
The existing SACM (stand Alone Cable Modems) that people have should be perfectly ok in regards the new upgrade speeds, due to be introduced from 14th March.
The increases are:-
Speed increase from 750Kbps to 2MbpsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂFree
Speed increase from 1.5Mbps to 3MbpsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂFree
Speed increase from 300Kbps to 1MbpsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂFree, see Below
Existing 300Kbps customers will be given the option to upgrade to the 1Mbps. But, on doing so the monthly data transfer cap will reduced from 30GB to 3GB! Some customers may therefore prefer staying on the 300Kbps service with a 30GB monthly usage allowance.
Speed and Cap information
Broadband enabled STB
1Mbps Downloadââ‚ ‚¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ100Kbps UploadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ3GB Monthly Cap
2Mbps Downloadââ‚ ‚¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ200Kbps UploadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ30GB Monthly Cap
3Mbps Downloadââ‚ ‚¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ300Kbps UploadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ40GB Monthly Cap
Standalone Cable Modem (SACM)
1Mbps Downloadââ‚ ‚¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ100Kbps UploadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ3GB Monthly Cap
2Mbps Downloadââ‚ ‚¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ200Kbps UploadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ30GB Monthly Cap
3Mbps Downloadââ‚ ‚¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ300Kbps UploadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂÂ40GB Monthly Cap
The higher speeds on the STB (Set Top Box) will require a box swap to a newer Samsung STB.
There was also discussion in regards to the Cap at 1Meg, the future speeds available, and some comparison to other providers.
... and now for the next installment ...
seaneeboy
17-02-2005, 16:41
I'm struggling to see what this has to do with the speed upgrades. :confused:
Sorry, just thought the people who were talking about it in the part 1 thread would be interested.
ntl to unleash new 'super speed' Broadband services in mid-March
In mid-March we will be upgrading all our Broadband services for no extra cost! All new customers will go onto one of these new speeds. Once they have launched, the old speeds will not be available to new customers:
300K will become 1Mb, for £17.99 per month, with a 3GB per month usage download limit (100K upload speed)
750K will become 2Mb, for £24.99 per month, with a 1GB per day usage download limit (200K upload speed)
1.5Mb will become 3Mb, for £37.99 per month, with a 1GB per day usage download limit (300K upload speed)
EXISTING CUSTOMERS: It has been decided that there will no longer be a £25 admin fee for customers to upgrade to the new speeds:
750K and 1.5Mb customers will be upgraded to the new speeds automatically, except for 750K Pace STB customers. 750K Pace STB customers can upgrade by calling Customer Services to arrange their Pace box to be swapped to a Samsung STB or a Cable Modem.
300K customers will not be upgraded automatically, as some customers may not wish to have the higher speed service with a lower monthly usage limit. However, they can still upgrade for free by calling Customer Services.
DOWNLOAD USAGE LIMIT: We will not be checking usage allowances until later this year. We will get in touch with customers directly who exceed their usage allowance and offer them information and alternative options (tbc)
MARKETING: The new speeds will be marketed to new customers as soon as they launch in mid-March. There will be no active marketing to 300K or 750K Pace STB customers, however those who call about the new speeds will be upgraded by Customer Services.
Is this going to happen????
<....SNIP....> Is this going to happen????
We reported on this before that came out ;)
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/139/ntl-broadband-speed-increases-update-3
... and YES it's going to happen
no not that lol read it. I got it from here
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=401181&postcount=636
except for 750K Pace STB customers. 750K Pace STB customers can upgrade by calling Customer Services to arrange their Pace box to be swapped to a Samsung STB or a Cable Modem
can this be done at any time or do we have to wait til the speeds are released?
Checky
Try ringing them now ..... got nothing to lose.
martikus
17-02-2005, 17:42
Hi im new and i'd like to throw my two pence in. I have the 1.5mb connection with NTL and i look forward to the new speeds. 40gb per month will be great. But i hope that they continue to handle the capping in the same way they are now. It is quite easy to go above that limit as at the moment it's set at an unofficial 30gb per month.It is possible to do this legitamatly. And before you say anything no i don't use kazaa!!!! I subscribe to I-tunes, i am also an avid gamer and most game demo's are around the 600mb level. Also i love downloading mods for my games. I recently downloaded a mod for an old game called baldursgate 2 and that clocked in at 1.2gb!! I also love playing mmorpg's and i love trialing Alpha and Beta tests of theese games. they can be anything from 1-3gb each to download and that doesn't even include patching them!!! Now i Know what you'll all say, whynot buy magazines for the demos, well why should i when i have net access and get them for free. I have monitered my average usage and that has come out at about 9gb per month so well within the cap but on rare occations i do go over as with last month i downloaded the world of warcraft beta 2.3gb, Everquest trial 1.3gb, 5other beta's which clocked in at 12gb between them. varius linux packages to try it out for the first time. Game demo's, etc. in total my usage was 31gb. Now i don't want to be penalised for going over my limit this one month when it was the first time in 6 monthes. Surely NTL should target the continual abusers and kick them from the network, rather than enforce ocational overuse!!!!
Word yesterday was that they've dropped the 40gb a month allowance for the top tier to 30gb like the others. Thing is, like now, it's not 30gb a month, but 1gb per day.
That has implications, especially how you describe your use, as you couldn't say, I'll download this 10gb file today, as I've still got 20gb left to last me the rest of the month. The limit is per day, so anything over 1gb in one day would be over the limit...officially, but they're not enforcing it as such yet. But once they do it could cause problems for people like you whos' download sizes can be sporadic.
Really, a 30gb per month limit would be better, and more flexible, but I guess that doesn't allow them to balance the load on the system so well. :)
Just to go back to stb's does anyone know the maximum speed the pace 1000 box can handle, i believe its 1 MB but i'd like confirmation. Thanks ;)
saxo_vtr_paul
17-02-2005, 18:56
Just rang the tech support line to have the STB changed from Pace to Samsung. The lady told me someone will call me near the time to arrange the upgrade and there was no need for me to ring. is this true?
martikus
17-02-2005, 19:48
personally i'd prefer a monthly download limit i think it's crazy if they inforce 1gb a day limit. 30-40gb per month i can live with but a daily limit will put a lot of gamers off!! I like the service i get from NTL now but i do think that a daily limit would make me rethink my service provider.I'll just have to wait and see what happens. if it stays at a monthly allowance then great, the limits are fine by me. if it goes to a daily 1gb limit then bye-bye NTL. Monthly caps makes much more sense to offer users especially with their premium product!!
Just rang the tech support line to have the STB changed from Pace to Samsung. The lady told me someone will call me near the time to arrange the upgrade and there was no need for me to ring. is this true?
Should be. :cool:
The way I read it, is that they will not be actively pushing the 750k to 2Mbit upgrade, because additional hardware will be required.
Stupid really - if they taken the middle tier to only 1Mbit instead or 2, then that would also leave a more worthwhile difference between the middle and top tier.
Any stats on the relative percentages of people on different tariffs?
I'm guessing the the top one will be the least popular, it looked overpriced when they started talkin caps, and it looks even more overpriced for the difference between 2 and 3 Meggabit (no increase in quota)
You cannot seperate the speed from the cap, especially if we are looking at the prospect that it will be enforced other than for gross abusers.
Some peple may look at 1Mbit/3Gb and call it a good deal compared to "dialup replacement broadband" from other providers with a 1 or 2 Gb cap - well, I suppose it is, and in this case, it's NOT an "abuse" cap, but the definition of a Lite service... don't know about anyone else, but I'd be more than happy with 1Mbit.
Actually, we have seen TWO reductions in quota from what we all saw in that leaked PDF.
The 1Mbit falls from 5Gb to 3Gb, and certainly drops it below the radar of anyone who was juggling the figures for 5Gb.
(I was banking on making it down to 3Gb, with 2Gb for exceptionals).
The 3Mbit falls from 40Gb to 30Gb so the only thing you get extra for £13 more a month, is now just 50% more speed, instead of 100%
If they don't throw at least the 40GB (preferably a pro-rata 45GB) quota back in, or take the speed up to 4Mbit - their "flagship" tier has to be left for people with too much money and too little patience.
ur all goin on about 30GB a month....but they will not enforce it! It is suppost to be on 1GB a day now and they never bother me....all they r going to do is give u more speed and they wont bother u about any caps!
ur all goin on about 30GB a month....but they will not enforce it! It is suppost to be on 1GB a day now and they never bother me....all they r going to do is give u more speed and they wont bother u about any caps!
Be nice if thats true, but that would buck the trend of most other providers ie : BT etc etc.
It will be true. 750k and 1.5mbit users will not be doing anything....it is an automatic upgrade so they cant just cap u! They wud have to make u agree to the new terms and conditions. If they did cap u wot wud be stopping an isp from selling u a 1mbit connection and then putting it down to 56k? The fact is they cant change the service you get unless u agree to it.
HornetUK
17-02-2005, 21:50
A couple of questions
I'm on 750k currently...whats my current upload speed?
On average I play xboxlive for an hour a night, download say 20 music tracks a day, browse the web for a couple of hours......How much GB download in a day is that?
On the 1MB service would I be able to do the above daily with 3GB cap?
Cheers
JohnHorb
17-02-2005, 21:51
It will be true. 750k and 1.5mbit users will not be doing anything....it is an automatic upgrade so they cant just cap u! They wud have to make u agree to the new terms and conditions. If they did cap u wot wud be stopping an isp from selling u a 1mbit connection and then putting it down to 56k? The fact is they cant change the service you get unless u agree to it.
From T&Cs:-
26. Changing the Terms and Conditions
Where any of the following occurs:
there is any change or amendment to any law or regulation which applies to our trading, operating or business practices or policy;
OFCOM, the Director General of Fair Trading or any other competent Government department or regulatory body makes any direction or order recommending or requiring any technical modifications or changes in our trading, operating or business practices or policy; or
in all other events, where we reasonably determine that any technical modification to the ntl Network or change in our trading, operating or business practices or policy is necessary to maintain or improve the Services which we provide to you,
We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions of this Agreement and/or the Services which we provide to you as soon as is reasonably practicable by giving written notice to you prior to the changes being introduced referring to this Condition. We will also publish details of any changes (including the operative date) in each of our main offices and on our web-site as soon as possible prior to the changes being introduced. Your rights to cancel the Services if we make any significant change to the terms and conditions of this Agreement are set out in Condition 20.1(ii).
Chrysalis
17-02-2005, 22:05
in regards to what ignition showed me in part 1 og thread.
Broadband Option3
Surfing 24 hours a day
Sending photos by email 700 per week
Receiving photos by email 700 per week
Downloading music tracks 700 per week
Sending emails without attachments 5,000 per week
Receiving emails without attachments 5,000 per week
Watching videos 7 hours per week
Online gaming 35 hours per week
TOTAL 30GB / month
this is from wannaddoo site, not hard to see why not many people complaining.
24 hours a day surfing on 30 gig a month?
There wont be any heavy gamers on wannaddoo 35 hours a week is nothing for them. I have no idea if thats accurate but an isp shouldnt post info such as this as it cannot be accurate for everyone.
Video clips another example of this, 7 hours a week of what?
2 hours of quality xvid amounts to 1500 megabytes, so for that it is fairly accurate, but of course if it is lower quality streaming or higher quality dvd then it is inaccurate.
But the bigger problem comes in is if you mix stuff together, if you surfing 24 hours a day and downloading xvid video, then unless your 24 hour surfing is using under 2 gig a month (very unlikely) then you wont have 28 hours of xvid, this list can be confusing and people reading will probably thing wow I can do ALL of those things, not just one or the other or even worse not realising it is completely wrong.
Hans Gruber
17-02-2005, 22:22
It seems BT will limit the connection 150k till the next billing cycle begins. That's an idea I'm not opposed to for NTL. http://www.btyahoo.com/broadbandusage_holding for more details...
6. What happens if I exceed my monthly usage allowance?
In the unlikely event that you exceed your monthly usage allowance (remember these are more than enough for the vast majority of users) the speed of your connection will be reduced to 150kb until the start of the next month, when you monthly usage allowance will be reset.
If you exceed your usage allowance you will have three choices; you will be able to continue to surf and download at a reduced speed of 150kb - that's still three time the speed of dial up - for the remainder of the month, or you will be able to top up you usage allowance on bt.com by purchasing additional capacity at £1.95 per 1GB unit, or alternatively you may wish to consider upgrading to a higher usage capacity package.
(meant to post that in the caps thread :dunce: )
i hope they dont enforce the caps hard... I mean i could understand them going after someone going way over 30gb but if you hit say 32gb once in a while i think that should be acceptable
In our moving speeds, if they bump it down after heavy usage (hope not) they shouldn't punish us, it should be something that ridicules bt, lets say 512k :devsmoke:
But having to pay £1.95 per extra gb is OUTRAGEOUS.
edit: just wondering, how is the xbox live service capped?
Not sure if this has been mentioned already (apologies if it has) but BT seem to have pulled a fast one with their upgrades. The BT Yahoo product which was 1Mbit/30GB is now 2Mbit/15GBit and is currently priced at £26.99 but only for 3 months then goes back to £29.99. If u want 2Mbit/30GB you've got to wait until the end of March for this to be launched but what will the price be? Probably close to £35.
So BT's broadband prices haven't remained the same as they stated instead they've tried to disguise it with a 3 month price reduction!
paul11974
17-02-2005, 23:59
upgraded to 750k today !
when can i get my new silver box for my 2mb connection ? ;)
Why does everyone go on about BT??
Everyone knows they are a rip off and there are plenty of providers out there that will give you 2MB uncapped for far less. Instead of comparing NTL to BT compare to these I.S.P's and see how poor the deal sounds then.
The speeds sound good and the extra couple of K upload will be vaugly useful but if the hard cap comes then I will be off to an ADSL company.
I think UK online now do an Uncapped 2MB for 29.99....Sounds good to me ! !
The other thing that puzzles me is the drop on the top tier from 40GB to 30GB per month which is the same as the 2MB product. Now forgive me for sounding silly but the 2MB is cheaper right? So the only benefit of the 3MB is the ability to hit the (same) cap quicker and pay Extra for it?? Sounds not to good to me. I think I would rather pay over £10 LESS every month and know at least I will not hit my cap quite so quickly. To be fair you can only load a web page so fast before the speed increase becomes un-noticeable right? Hehehe
However to be honest I doubt the hard cap will come. I think just like the Admin fee it will be dropped. While there are many other companies out there offering an uncapped service for less money people will go (if they have the need). I know I would certainly a slower speed but know that I could use it whenever I like and for whatever I like.
Interesting this (sorry if posted already )
http://www.plus.net/support/faq/broadband_fair_usage_faq.shtml#17
ian@huth
18-02-2005, 01:34
Interesting this (sorry if posted already )
http://www.plus.net/support/faq/broadband_fair_usage_faq.shtml#17
Yes, very interesting. Ignition posted the link earlier. Also worth a read is http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1101830040.htm
One thing to note is that Plusnet and other ISPs are identifying customers with a very high usage pattern and taking steps to reduce their impact on their services. As ISPs introduce higher speeds these very high usage customers will have more of an impact on services and will be dealt with one way or another. Even the ISPs with unlimited packages will take action to restrict the very high usage of some of their customers. There are various ways of doing this within their existing T&Cs.
Well I gotta say - I used to be Firmly on the "caps are very bad and need to be killed on sight" but my Useage pattern has changed drasticly over the years. Now to be totally honest I have no idea how much I Down/Up a month, aa day or whatever but I suspect to be honest I fit in the cat of a "normal" user (compared to say a Lite User). I have never ever ever Liked and never will P2P apps, I do use the newsgroups + Newsbin but thats only the odd day a week if that now.
Now if they left it as a soft cap or a cap but same as plusnet there, through the night not counted sort of thing then I have no problem tbh to stay with NTL. The softcap I "think" works cos if a Person uses it like 1:1 24/7 etc then yes they shoudl be kicked or speed restricted..
By the way, noone sort of answered my question onthe other thread, I was aksing for a mate who lives in Ireland if they also getting upgrades. He did say they were getting sold off or something (NTL)over there so I have no idea..
with the caps coming with the new speeds is it gonna be measuresd on upload + download or are they going to be just measuing how much you use on the downstream only...
also good to hear the upstrem speeds are going up
Is there any software available that can tell you the speed of your connection...!
Other than the ( hopefully ) improved download rate, it would be nice to have something to confirm, yes your line is now 2MB !!
-Mog
I decided to leave Eclipse in November after hearing about the proposed 3mb connection offered by NTL. Dont think there was any mention of the speed caps at that time. However as they are going to be enforced and that other ADSL providers are increasing the speed, and in some cases unlimited downloads, beyond what NTL are offering it now seems to me that what I regarded as a innovative move bt NTL now seems to be more like a catch-me-up. They reallu have taken too long to do this and in my opinion have missed the ball with this .
What I want to know is if I can cancel my 12 month contract ( :redcard: ) due to the T&C being changed (If they have as I perceive) ?
Many thanks
orangebird
18-02-2005, 09:55
I decided to leave Eclipse in November after hearing about the proposed 3mb connection offered by NTL. Dont think there was any mention of the speed caps at that time. However as they are going to be enforced and that other ADSL providers are increasing the speed, and in some cases unlimited downloads, beyond what NTL are offering it now seems to me that what I regarded as a innovative move bt NTL now seems to be more like a catch-me-up. They reallu have taken too long to do this and in my opinion have missed the ball with this .
What I want to know is if I can cancel my 12 month contract ( :redcard: ) due to the T&C being changed (If they have as I perceive) ?
Many thanks
No, the T&Cs haven't changed, the AUP has. As part of the T&Cs though, it's up to you to check the AUP regularly....
Hans Gruber
18-02-2005, 10:21
I decided to leave Eclipse in November after hearing about the proposed 3mb connection offered by NTL. Dont think there was any mention of the speed caps at that time. However as they are going to be enforced and that other ADSL providers are increasing the speed, and in some cases unlimited downloads, beyond what NTL are offering it now seems to me that what I regarded as a innovative move bt NTL now seems to be more like a catch-me-up. They reallu have taken too long to do this and in my opinion have missed the ball with this .
What I want to know is if I can cancel my 12 month contract ( :redcard: ) due to the T&C being changed (If they have as I perceive) ?
Many thanks
The caps and speed increases were both revealed in the same presentation.
paulyoung666
18-02-2005, 10:37
with the caps coming with the new speeds is it gonna be measuresd on upload + download or are they going to be just measuing how much you use on the downstream only...
also good to hear the upstrem speeds are going up
try this (http://www.broadbandspeedtest.net/) for a speed test :)
try this (http://www.broadbandspeedtest.net/) for a speed test :)
Nice link, thanks for that......
Why does everyone go on about BT??
Everyone knows they are a rip off and there are plenty of providers out there that will give you 2MB uncapped for far less. Instead of comparing NTL to BT compare to these I.S.P's and see how poor the deal sounds then.
The speeds sound good and the extra couple of K upload will be vaugly useful but if the hard cap comes then I will be off to an ADSL company.
I think UK online now do an Uncapped 2MB for 29.99....Sounds good to me ! !
The other thing that puzzles me is the drop on the top tier from 40GB to 30GB per month which is the same as the 2MB product. Now forgive me for sounding silly but the 2MB is cheaper right? So the only benefit of the 3MB is the ability to hit the (same) cap quicker and pay Extra for it?? Sounds not to good to me. I think I would rather pay over £10 LESS every month and know at least I will not hit my cap quite so quickly. To be fair you can only load a web page so fast before the speed increase becomes un-noticeable right? Hehehe
However to be honest I doubt the hard cap will come. I think just like the Admin fee it will be dropped. While there are many other companies out there offering an uncapped service for less money people will go (if they have the need). I know I would certainly a slower speed but know that I could use it whenever I like and for whatever I like.
Yes but ntl aren't a niche isp, targeting the users who may require ex amount of bandwidth. Correct me if i'm wrong, but from a business point of view, their target to beat is the mainstream isps, who get all the press, like BT, Wannado and AOL.
And tbh, they are offering a much more competitive product then them. But i am still against hard capping ;)
Web-Junkie
18-02-2005, 12:02
.....and BT have a 15GB/month cap for their mid-range products (dropping to 150kbps if you exceed it) and an option to BUY additional Gigs at £1.95 if you exeed 15GB :O
They also include UPSTREAM data in your usage, so they are penalising you for requesting web pages now.
http://www.btyahoo.com/broadbandusage_holding
seaneeboy
18-02-2005, 12:28
Eeewww - BT Yahoo is such a confusing system - far too many caveats for a entry-level package :(
Sorry to be a pain if this has already been posted.
I'm a STB user who used to be on the 512k which got raised to 600K and I believe at the moment I am now on 750K. If this makes me eligable for the new upgrade to 2mb and eligable for the new set top box will NTL contact me to inform me of this or will I have to ring and pester them?
orangebird
18-02-2005, 12:57
Sorry to be a pain if this has already been posted.
I'm a STB user who used to be on the 512k which got raised to 600K and I believe at the moment I am now on 750K. If this makes me eligable for the new upgrade to 2mb and eligable for the new set top box will NTL contact me to inform me of this or will I have to ring and pester them?
Ring and pester :)
OldGeezer
18-02-2005, 13:34
Ring and pester :)
I just did and got the same response as someone else earlier in the thread - "It's too early, we will be in touch."
Fair enough.
ian@huth
18-02-2005, 13:58
I just did and got the same response as someone else earlier in the thread - "It's too early, we will be in touch."
Fair enough.
If you can't wait you can upgrade now to the 1.5 Mb service for a month and then downgrade after the month is up. This would mean either a box swap or a SACM being provided now rather than ending up in a long queue waiting for an engineer visit when the time is right.
captain747480
18-02-2005, 14:22
From a previous post:-
ntl to unleash new 'super speed' Broadband services in mid-March
MARKETING: The new speeds will be marketed to new customers as soon as they launch in mid-March. There will be no active marketing to 300K or 750K Pace STB customers, however those who call about the new speeds will be upgraded by Customer Services.
Although I'm not sure of the source for the above info and hence can't be sure it's kosher, it seems that NTL might be keeping quiet about the upgrade in order to avoid a big backlog of Pace STB swap outs.
saxo_vtr_paul
18-02-2005, 18:49
Im on the 750k now, I just hope to god that ntl do contact me to arrange the installation on my new stb that I need. If they dont there is going to be one unhappy customer. If they upgrade the speeds and I havent heard from them how bad will that be? I have been with ntl for about 10 years. I joined them when it was c&w. so after all, they have had a fair bit of money from me. why should I have a 750k connection when I should really be on 2mb if you get me?
Just to reiterate as my question got lost in the multiple threads. Does anyone know the maximum download speed the pace 1000 can cope with. i dont really want to swap for a samsung box if i dont have to, would prefer to downgrade to the 1 meg bronze service. :monkey:
scrotnig
18-02-2005, 19:10
Just to reiterate as my question got lost in the multiple threads. Does anyone know the maximum download speed the pace 1000 can cope with. i dont really want to swap for a samsung box if i dont have to, would prefer to downgrade to the 1 meg bronze service. :monkey:
Ask for a cable modem, then you can keep your trusty PACE box whatever happens.
I just did and got the same response as someone else earlier in the thread - "It's too early, we will be in touch."
Fair enough.
I tried to upgrade to the 1.5meg service, to jump the queue for a new stb, I was told I couldnt upgrade till they had replaced my PACE box, which is happening next week
All worked out rather well really :)
scrotnig
18-02-2005, 20:15
I can't take any more of this thread...I'm going to have to change my name.....
ian@huth
18-02-2005, 20:18
I can't take any more of this thread...I'm going to have to change my name.....
But you've just changed it M. :) Must be the day for changes.
scrotnig
18-02-2005, 20:21
But you've just changed it M. :) Must be the day for changes.
Indeed...do you want that '@' in another place too? Drop me a PM over there if so....
Ask for a cable modem, then you can keep your trusty PACE box whatever happens.
That's the first time I've seen anyone call the Pace box "trusty"...
As I understood it, the Samsung has two processors, and is far more adept at juggling TV, Interactive and Broadband than the Pace ... though some complain about the appearance of the silver box unless you have other metallic case style equipment... surely they could have specified a nice refined charcoal colour or something?
The alternative is to do nothing - they'll be happy to leave you and your trusty Pace box on 750k. I'd be wary about downgrading, unless you were a VERY light user and only had 750k for the speed, as the claims made for how much you can do with 1Gb are woefully exaggerated, if you do anything other than browse ... Some Flash games are 3-4Mb and fail to cache, so that's every time you visit, a day, a week, a month.
One thing to think of, if you want it, is to consider going down to the 300k tariff NOW, if you need the 30Gb capacity, but aren't too bothered about the speed, since you may not have that choice after.
scrotnig
18-02-2005, 20:53
That's the first time I've seen anyone call the Pace box "trusty"...
As I understood it, the Samsung has two processors, and is far more adept at juggling TV, Interactive and Broadband than the Pace ... though some complain about the appearance of the silver box unless you have other metallic case style equipment... surely they could have specified a nice refined charcoal colour or something?
The alternative is to do nothing - they'll be happy to leave you and your trusty Pace box on 750k. I'd be wary about downgrading, unless you were a VERY light user and only had 750k for the speed, as the claims made for how much you can do with 1Gb are woefully exaggerated, if you do anything other than browse ... Some Flash games are 3-4Mb and fail to cache, so that's every time you visit, a day, a week, a month.
One thing to think of, if you want it, is to consider going down to the 300k tariff NOW, if you need the 30Gb capacity, but aren't too bothered about the speed, since you may not have that choice after.
I've got two very trusty Pace boxes and would be reluctant to let them go.
I also have a Samsung. They're nice, but I prefer the Pace generally, maybe because I'm more used to it. I agree a Samsung is usually a better bet though as there are so many dicey PACEs about. But if you have a working PACE they are fine.
paulyoung666
18-02-2005, 23:08
excuse me for losing the plot here , wtf is going on with name changes :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
ian@huth
19-02-2005, 00:04
excuse me for losing the plot here , wtf is going on with name changes :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:It's the revolution, it's here, we're revolting. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:
geminian68
19-02-2005, 00:05
Broadband to be metered in 8Mbps future http://news.zdnet.co.uk/i/b.gif
Graeme Wearden (mailroomuk@zdnet.com)
ZDNet UK
February 18, 2005, 17:15 GMT
UK ISP PlusNet plans to charge customers on per-megabyte basis, irrespective of the maximum line speed.
UK's broadband providers are on the brink of moving away from billing customers on the basis of connection speeds to a model built around the amount of data downloaded.
The move is likely to reinforce the existing broadband divide, as consumers and small businesses in metropolitan areas could end up getting a much faster connection than those in more remote areas, without having to pay more.
The catalyst is BT Wholesale's forthcoming trials (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/broadband/0,39020342,39186883,00.htm) into methods of increasing the maximum speeds possible over its ADSL network from 2Mbps to 8Mbps. This testing will begin in April, and UK ISP PlusNet has taken the move as a cue to reshape its range of broadband products.
PlusNet is confident that BT's trials -- which it is taking part in -- will be followed by widespread availability of faster services by the end of this summer. PlusNet announced on Tuesday that from April its broadband customers will be able to get speeds of up to 8Mbps "where available".
"Speed will no longer be a factor in how people buy broadband," said Marco Potesta, PlusNet marketing director, on Thursday.
PlusNet is the first ISP to announce how BT's speed trials will affect its business model. Previously, the price of its Premier product ranged from £21.99 a month for a 512Kbps connection to £39.99 per month for a 2Mbps line. But from April, PlusNet will shift to usage-based charging, where £21.99 will buy 30GB of peak-time data per month plus another 230GB per month during the night. Customers can pay more to get a larger monthly download limit.
Potesta said that some of PlusNet's 'pay-as-you-go' customers, who pay £14.99 + £1.50 for each GB of data downloaded, will also be able to get speeds of up to 8Mbps from April.
However, BT has not yet given any indication of where 8Mbps services might be available. It's likely that ADSL's physical restrictions will mean that only people living relatively close to an exchange would be able to get such high speeds.
This would mean that some PlusNet customers could pay the same for a 512Kbps or 1Mbps connection as for a 8Mbps one -- good news for surfers in metropolitan areas who are likely to be able to get fast speeds but less appealing for those in rural areas.
Potesta acknowledged that 8Mbps speeds would not be available everywhere, but insisted that from April some PlusNet customers would be able to get such a speed upgrade, depending on where BT carried out its trial.
Potesta also said that most users would be able to get a connection of at least 2Mbps. Until now a standard broadband speed has typically been 512Kbps or lower, but BT Retail upped the ante last week when it announced that all its broadband services would run at 2Mbps apart from its entry level product, which would be speeded up to 1Mbps.
BT Wholesale declined to comment on PlusNet's plans but suggested that 8Mbps connections could be available across the UK later this year.
"BT Wholesale is planning limited trials of the 8Mbps service in April in limited geographies, which haven't been fixed and haven't yet been announced. Subject to a successful trial, BT Wholesale is planning for the service to be available nationally in the autumn of 2005," said a BT Wholesale spokeswoman.
I don't know if this as already been posted, sorry if it has. :sorry:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39188350,00.htm
ian@huth
19-02-2005, 00:26
excuse me for losing the plot here , wtf is going on with name changes :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:In my case it was because many people had difficulty in spelling my old username. It can also confuse spambots that trawl forums looking for email addresses and also pick up usernames to which they add the @abigdomain.com or .co.uk as many forum users have a username that is the same as the first part of their email addy.
It is currently understood that if customers exceed the monthly cap limits as outlined above, their connection will be dropped to a speed of 56Kbps, although this isnââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t confirmed.
Hmm if this is the case I will be cancelling straight away, but as always its all speculation and hopefully they will be as lax enforcing this as they are with the 1gig cap now.
Ive been with NTL for 2 Years now and theyve been excellent, but if this happens I will be offski!
OldGeezer
19-02-2005, 11:28
I just did and got the same response as someone else earlier in the thread - "It's too early, we will be in touch."
Fair enough.
You're not gonna believe this but:
About 2 hours afte posting that my BB connection dropped - middle light flashing.
A call to faults detemined that the box was a fault, so I asked if I could get a Samsung in view of the upcoming speed changes - no problem, engineer booked for this afternoon.
This morning the connection started working again! I dutifully called faults to cancel the engineer but they said that they wanted to do a box swap and so I might as well let him come. I didn't argue.
I certainly have had no problems with the Pace 1000 (apart from this last episode, which I'm not convinced was the box anyway), I just hope the Samsung will be as reliable.
scrotnig
19-02-2005, 12:31
Hmm if this is the case I will be cancelling straight away, but as always its all speculation and hopefully they will be as lax enforcing this as they are with the 1gig cap now.
Ive been with NTL for 2 Years now and theyve been excellent, but if this happens I will be offski!
This has not been mentioned on any official channel as yet.
Chrysalis
20-02-2005, 18:42
"PlusNet is the first ISP to announce how BT's speed trials will affect its business model. Previously, the price of its Premier product ranged from £21.99 a month for a 512Kbps connection to £39.99 per month for a 2Mbps line. But from April, PlusNet will shift to usage-based charging, where £21.99 will buy 30GB of peak-time data per month plus another 230GB per month during the night. Customers can pay more to get a larger monthly download limit."
An ISP with sense, you will find most users are not against caps as a whole they just against biased caps, plusnet realised night time capacity isnt an issue and allow users to take advantage. Why cant NTL?
scrotnig
20-02-2005, 19:10
"PlusNet is the first ISP to announce how BT's speed trials will affect its business model. Previously, the price of its Premier product ranged from £21.99 a month for a 512Kbps connection to £39.99 per month for a 2Mbps line. But from April, PlusNet will shift to usage-based charging, where £21.99 will buy 30GB of peak-time data per month plus another 230GB per month during the night. Customers can pay more to get a larger monthly download limit."
An ISP with sense, you will find most users are not against caps as a whole they just against biased caps, plusnet realised night time capacity isnt an issue and allow users to take advantage. Why cant NTL?
Because if they did that, all the stupid pirate CD burners would stay up all night doing it instead.
DieDieMyDarling
20-02-2005, 20:32
Bless, another stupid person stating that all people who download lots are cd pirates... :-|
JohnHorb
20-02-2005, 20:43
Bless, another stupid person stating that all people who download lots are cd pirates... :-|
Where does the post say that? It says that all those who ARE CD pirates would stop up all night to do it. (and no need to be offensive).
Bless, another stupid person stating that all people who download lots are cd pirates... :-|
Then please educate us...
What the heck do you all download then?
downquark1
20-02-2005, 20:53
Then please educate us...
What the heck do you all download then?
Everquest 2 beta 4 gig (often updated weekly)
World of warcraft beta 2.5 gig using bittorrent officially. (updated monthly usually requiring a total client download)
Plus those who purchase games through steam or fileplanet.com
Everquest 2 beta 4 gig (often updated weekly)
World of warcraft beta 2.5 gig using bittorrent officially. (updated monthly usually requiring a total client download)
Plus those who purchase games through steam or fileplanet.com
Then I guess you are stuffed then, unless you can beta test via CD/DVD like everyone else...
paulyoung666
20-02-2005, 21:04
hang on this is the speed thread , not the cap thread :disturbd: ;)
hang on this is the speed thread , not the cap thread :disturbd: ;)
Yes can some members please take note that this is the new speeds thread and not the capping thread. Thanks. :)
downquark1
20-02-2005, 21:09
Then I guess you are stuffed then, unless you can beta test via CD/DVD like everyone else...
they were not using disks, they were online games and the companies decided to distribute them how they did, sending weekly updates all around the world by post is hardly an option. It's the ISP job to provide bandwidth and it is perfectly within their means. The fact that international companies like sony are distributing public beta's online is proof that the average ISP can handle it.
they were not using disks, they were online games and the companies decided to distribute them how they did, sending weekly updates all around the world by post is hardly an option. It's the ISP job to provide bandwidth and it is perfectly within their means. The fact that international companies like sony are distributing public beta's online is proof that the average ISP can handle it.
Then one ask the question is NTL the average ISP???
or
Are we avearge users?
downquark1
20-02-2005, 21:33
Then one ask the question is NTL the average ISP???
Considering they are a cable company who have their own networks I would say they are above average
Are we avearge users?
I'm not and proud of it. I don't think the 'average' user needs a 2mb line anyway. I've got 750 and am perfectly happy.
I don't know how you even dare download a game demo. Do you think bandwidth grows on trees? You think NTL supplies a 1.5mb/s service for people to download? It's for high speed browsing and chat and nothing more. It's people like you who are spoiling it for the rest of us 300k web users.The sooner NTL gets rid of you downloaders and gamers the better. Roll on the 56k speed caps !
OinkyBoinky
20-02-2005, 23:13
I don't know how you even dare download a game demo. Do you think bandwidth grows on trees? You think NTL supplies a 1.5mb/s service for people to download? It's for high speed browsing and chat and nothing more. It's people like you who are spoiling it for the rest of us 300k web users.The sooner NTL gets rid of you downloaders and gamers the better. Roll on the 56k speed caps !
.....
martikus
20-02-2005, 23:20
I don't know how you even dare download a game demo. Do you think bandwidth grows on trees? You think NTL supplies a 1.5mb/s service for people to download? It's for high speed browsing and chat and nothing more. It's people like you who are spoiling it for the rest of us 300k web users.The sooner NTL gets rid of you downloaders and gamers the better. Roll on the 56k speed caps !
LMAO!!!!!!
slowcoach
20-02-2005, 23:22
I don't know how you even dare download a game demo. Do you think bandwidth grows on trees? You think NTL supplies a 1.5mb/s service for people to download? It's for high speed browsing and chat and nothing more. It's people like you who are spoiling it for the rest of us 300k web users.The sooner NTL gets rid of you downloaders and gamers the better. Roll on the 56k speed caps !
Yeh, people should realize that when they get billed twice it's obviously because they have been downloading too much, they get no sympathy from me.... anyway, let's see how those multiple Linux distro's are coming down, catch you later, just have to fit a bigger hard disk before I run out of space. ;)
What about people on the special offers of 300K @ 15 odd quid a month for a year or half price for the the 1st 3 months?
I cant remember which we went for, I think it was the latter so we're paying full price 17.99 again, but what if it was the other, are the upgrades available within the 12 months?
Sorry to take it off topic again but I have to laugh at the comment about teaching children the difference between right and wrong with regards to download caps. I think parents would be forgiven for not treating it like one of the Ten Commandments.
As for the subject of the non disclosure agreement, I cant see how the upgrades are any more a secret than the other information being provided.
zing_deleted
21-02-2005, 09:36
Hi Im a new poster long term reader lol Just called ntl so called customer services basicly to ask about how speed/cost can equal value for money
I know this is speed and really this is what this post is about.Aol charge £17.99 for 512 now and £29.99 for 2 meg uncapped Im sat here paying £37.99 for my 1.5 meg desperatly asking myself why am i waiting for 3 meg when surely I should leave and goto aol, main reason i can see is 12 month contracts i dont want a new one.The light at the end of my tunnel is ukonline 8meg goes live on my exchange end of may Im only 2.6km from exchange so may not get 8meg but ill get a damn site more than 3 for £2 pound more than im paying now.
Yeh, people should realize that when they get billed twice it's obviously because they have been downloading too much, they get no sympathy from me.... anyway, let's see how those multiple Linux distro's are coming down, catch you later, just have to fit a bigger hard disk before I run out of space. ;)
I must say it makes me laugh, all the P2P uses claim they are download Linux distro's. I mean when do they get time to try out all the distro's and why do they bother?
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 12:01
Hi Im a new poster long term reader lol Just called ntl so called customer services basicly to ask about how speed/cost can equal value for money
I know this is speed and really this is what this post is about.Aol charge £17.99 for 512 now and £29.99 for 2 meg uncapped Im sat here paying £37.99 for my 1.5 meg desperatly asking myself why am i waiting for 3 meg when surely I should leave and goto aol, main reason i can see is 12 month contracts i dont want a new one.The light at the end of my tunnel is ukonline 8meg goes live on my exchange end of may Im only 2.6km from exchange so may not get 8meg but ill get a damn site more than 3 for £2 pound more than im paying now.
The fact that you'd even consider AOL speaks volumes.
__________________
I don't know how you even dare download a game demo. Do you think bandwidth grows on trees? You think NTL supplies a 1.5mb/s service for people to download? It's for high speed browsing and chat and nothing more. It's people like you who are spoiling it for the rest of us 300k web users.The sooner NTL gets rid of you downloaders and gamers the better. Roll on the 56k speed caps !This is either sarcasm or trolling, surely? Please tell me it is.
zing_deleted
21-02-2005, 12:03
what volumes exactlly am i speaking??? are you telling me that ntl are a reputable company with good customer services???no and neither is aol but it is cheaper
Also i said in my post that this was my first and my first reply from someone arrogant like u I treat with contempt thank you
Well it's clearly sarcasm. I can't believe you actually need that pointing out!
leesonmedhurst
21-02-2005, 14:09
Hi
Heard today NTL are upgrading speeds after trying to leave and take my business to UKOnline. After being told of the upgrade cost free, I decided not to cancel my subscription. However, after more research I found this site and the details of the allowance caps and admin fees.
I have since called back NTL customer services and the gentleman I spoke to said there is an admin fee of around £20 and no caps. Reading these posts, it sounds as he has it round the wrong way - any confirmation on this?
More importantly, as a designer working from home I have a heavy usage of e-mail attachments (DXF and DWG AutoCAD files). I currently have a 1.5M connection, and I was under the impression it was unlimited usage. However, the posts here would suggest it is limited to a 1GB daily allowance even now?
Is there anyway I can monitor my usage now with a piece of software etc?
Your help is appreciated.
Thank you,
<snip>
Is there anyway I can monitor my usage now with a piece of software etc?
Welcome to the site .... this should help you out :D
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=22390&highlight=dumeter
<Snip>
You should probably be using a business connection from ntl, rather than the residential one you have.
zing_deleted
21-02-2005, 14:51
I see nemesis reply to a new poster was a hell of a lot more polite than scrotnig think a leaf needs to be taken from that book
etccarmageddon
21-02-2005, 14:59
I see this thread is degenerating again!
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 15:19
I see nemesis reply to a new poster was a hell of a lot more polite than scrotnig think a leaf needs to be taken from that book
I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours.
If you're a serious internet and/or computer user you won't even acknowledge the existence of AOL, since their disgusting software is as good as having a virus on your machine if you ever want to use another provider.
There are other reasons too.
__________________
I see this thread is degenerating again!
Only because some of us have got to the point where we're fed up with having crap hurled at us and having to be nice and fluffy in reply.
I, personally, speak my mind now and voice my own opinion. Some people don't like that because I dare to disagree with them. That's tough on them.
astra_lestat
21-02-2005, 15:20
If they impose hard cap of 30G, I am off to ADSL companies. There are plenty of them who offer 1Mbps down and unlimited traffic.
I would prefer to have 512Mbps unlimited than 2Mbps/30G, for the same money.
For me time of caps is over after I left dial-up. no more worries about traffic and how much I can use my internet.
One month I can download 20G another month it could be 50, I do not want to worry about it. I must admit, that NTL is very polite about it at the moment and they never reminded me about 1G per day limit. As long as it stays this way, I am with NTL, because I like the company and I don't want BT beat the NTL, yet if they enforce 1g per day or 30g per month, I am off. Today they truncated news server as well, you cannot download anything from there anymore, so NTL has turned to be very unfriendly binary group provider. One more reason to leave them if they become mean to us.
Strzelecki
21-02-2005, 15:23
Ok, I'm no fan of AOL, but you don'y need there software on your machine any more if you're using a router, they've finally allowed home networking (as of AOL 9)! Personally I shall be sticking with NTL until April, see how the speed upgrade goes then if I'm not happy I'll switch to UKOnlines 8 ish Meg service.
zing_deleted
21-02-2005, 15:40
I feel well and truely judged by scrotnig i must not be worthy of a place on these boards
__________________
I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours.
Only because some of us have got to the point where we're fed up with having crap hurled at us and having to be nice and fluffy in reply.
I, personally, speak my mind now and voice my own opinion. Some people don't like that because I dare to disagree with them. That's tough on them.
i had made one post so your point is mute
orangebird
21-02-2005, 15:41
I feel well and truely judged by scrotnig i must not be worthy of a place on these boards
:rolleyes:
Take some time to read through Scrotnigs other posts. He's damn helpful, non-judgemental, speaks honestly and you really could've had worse. Like a reply from me.
Everyone is welcome on the Forum, so welcome, and enjoy your time here. If you have a specific problem please post in a separate thread, leaving this one to get back ON TOPIC.
zing_deleted
21-02-2005, 15:46
but i made one post and got an arrogant response with no help at all maybe he/she is helpful but i did nothing wrong but make a point about value for money was what i said incorrect ?? simple answer no irrelevant of someones feelings towards aol there are others offering 2 meg uncapped for £29.99 my point is a fair one why am i paying £37.99 for less speed
sorry nemesis i was already typing i wont bother anymore
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 15:48
I just speak my mind, nothing more. I don't mean to offend individuals and that's not my intention. I apologise if anyone's taken something I said the wrong way.
ProfPete
21-02-2005, 16:24
If they impose hard cap of 30G, I am off to ADSL companies. There are plenty of them who offer 1Mbps down and unlimited traffic.
Bye
I'm sure ntl would much rather not have people who are taking more than their fair share. To lose a few abusers would make the network a far nicer place for the rest of us. You won't be missed.
Sorry, but its the truth, and if you think the grass is greener on the other side, then you'll just end up forcing your next ISP into caps with your abuse.
on ntl:hell and ntl employee has posted http://forums.ntlhell.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7280
this is exactly the same as on this forum but the caps are
1M - 3G/month
2M - 1G/day
3M - 1G/day
can anyone confirm this
i would rather have the 30gb because then at least if one day i download more than 1gb and other days i do nothing :(
tbh its all about profits, cut this cap that...
I could live with a cap but 40Gbit is way to low. Ill probly be off to adsl as well i nice isp like ukonline :angel:.
My view is that most if not all UK Broadband providers will eventually submit to using caps to control the usage.
ntl are no different to those that already hace caps, be that soft or hard, BT do, plusnet, etc etc.
The "carrot" is to advertise a Cap free service ..... and then in the not too distant future Cap it ..... you see ....:D
i personally think that if they want to introduce a capped service they should have another service which is uncapped. for example for 2mb £24.99 30gb cap
but for 2mb unlimited £30.00 or something.. (cheaper preferably because then theres no competition between other providers such as ukonline and lots of others who are providing unlimited 2mb for £29.99. .
paulyoung666
21-02-2005, 16:46
on ntl:hell and ntl employee has posted http://forums.ntlhell.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7280
this is exactly the same as on this forum but the caps are
1M - 3G/month
2M - 1G/day
3M - 1G/day
can anyone confirm this
i would rather have the 30gb because then at least if one day i download more than 1gb and other days i do nothing :(
1mb 3gb/month
2mb 30gb/month
3mb 40gb/month
:)
ian@huth
21-02-2005, 16:59
i personally think that if they want to introduce a capped service they should have another service which is uncapped. for example for 2mb £24.99 30gb cap
but for 2mb unlimited £30.00 or something.. (cheaper preferably because then theres no competition between other providers such as ukonline and lots of others who are providing unlimited 2mb for £29.99. .Maybe they should have an uncapped service, but at a price consistent with the cost of providing and running it which certainly isn't £30 if you average out the usage of all on that service.
Let's get back to reality. An ISP provides an internet service as a service that generates a profit for them, they are not charitable institutions. Would you object to your first suggestion of £24.99 for a 2Mb service capped at 30 Gb per month then a cost per Gb over that at say the cost of that 1 Gb to NTL plus say a 10% profit on top?
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 17:09
Bye
I'm sure ntl would much rather not have people who are taking more than their fair share. To lose a few abusers would make the network a far nicer place for the rest of us. You won't be missed.
Sorry, but its the truth, and if you think the grass is greener on the other side, then you'll just end up forcing your next ISP into caps with your abuse.
I would have to say that, whilst I sort of agree with your principle, it's very wrong to say that someone is *automatically* an abuser just because they download a lot. Quite a few are, but by no means all. Some people just have high needs.
ProfPete
21-02-2005, 17:44
Would you object to your first suggestion of £24.99 for a 2Mb service capped at 30 Gb per month then a cost per Gb over that at say the cost of that 1 Gb to NTL plus say a 10% profit on top?
Sounds like Metered BB
Though I suspect it will be closer to £2 per GB.
ian@huth
21-02-2005, 17:57
Sounds like Metered BB
Though I suspect it will be closer to £2 per GB.Who knows? ;) The point that I am trying to make is that ISPs are not charitable institutions and need to charge at least what the service is costing them to provide. Some users seem to think that £2 to £5 extra covers the cost of whatever they want to use, it nowhere near covers the cost of what some customers use. Can any user object to paying just a little over cost price?
Hans Gruber
21-02-2005, 18:01
Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.
ian@huth
21-02-2005, 18:12
Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.
That's one of the problems when users are complaining about speeds, caps and what other ISPs are doing. They have no idea of what costs are involved and whether a particular service is profitable or not. They assume that because one ISP can provide a cheap service that anyone charging more is making obscene profits. They never think that the cheap ISP may be selling way below cost to buy market share. NTL have done and still are doing a lot of upgrades to enable them to offer the forthcoming services. How much do you think all that has cost?
etccarmageddon
21-02-2005, 18:17
the metered broadband model appears to be the way things are heading (for some ISPs) - plusnet are talking about an ADSL product which will give you the max speed possible on your line (upto 8mb) with costs per GB after you exceed 30gb per month. I think the price was around £22 for your initial monthly cost.
Then there are other ISPs such as ukonline which are going down the route of 'unlimited' GB with a high speed upto 8mb but for £40 a month.
So if you dont lke NTL's offering it looks like there will be an ADSL product alternative for all tastes. Assuming you can get ADSL!
Hans Gruber
21-02-2005, 18:44
That's one of the problems when users are complaining about speeds, caps and what other ISPs are doing. They have no idea of what costs are involved and whether a particular service is profitable or not. They assume that because one ISP can provide a cheap service that anyone charging more is making obscene profits. They never think that the cheap ISP may be selling way below cost to buy market share. NTL have done and still are doing a lot of upgrades to enable them to offer the forthcoming services. How much do you think all that has cost?
Don't tell me you don't believe they will be making an obscene profit on that tarif. 3gb bandwidth must cost NTL well under £1-2 at the bulk they buy it in.
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 18:51
Don't tell me you don't believe they will be making an obscene profit on that tarif. 3gb bandwidth must cost NTL well under £1-2 at the bulk they buy it in.
Do you seriously believe ntl are making obscene profits?
They aren't making any profits at all.
And quite apart from that, you have to factor other costs in like labour, overheads, etc.
You're not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit? Because business isn't that simple.
__________________
Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.
Why don't you write to Simon Duffy and tell HIM how much profit he 'must be making'?
Hans Gruber
21-02-2005, 18:55
Do you seriously believe ntl are making obscene profits?
They aren't making any profits at all.
And quite apart from that, you have to factor other costs in like labour, overheads, etc.
You're not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit? Because business isn't that simple.
Yes I do seriously believe that they make obscene profits from that tarif (I did just post that didn't I?).
And, no, I'm not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit.
If they can't make a profit from the 1gb service they really shouldn't still be in business.
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 19:09
Yes I do seriously believe that they make obscene profits from that tarif (I did just post that didn't I?).
And, no, I'm not one of these people who sees a tin of beans in a supermarket for 50p, finds out that the cost of the ingredients is 5p, and then assumes the supermarket is making 45p profit.
If they can't make a profit from the 1gb service they really shouldn't still be in business.
ntl, in common with many other service providers, doesn't make a profit, obscene or otherwise.
I daresay that if you examine a particular product in isolation, there may be a paper profit out of it. But this has to be offset against parts of the business that make a loss.
purenuman
21-02-2005, 19:09
Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.
Maybe they will...................
After paying off all their debts............ 1Q of 2073 :D
martikus
21-02-2005, 19:25
anyway as i said before in a previous posting. I hope that it will stay as a monthly download limit. If it is capped at 1gb per day that won't allow much room for gamers who play beta's or download from fileplanet as they can be way over 1gb each. I love the service i get from NTL i'm on the 1.5mb and look forward to the new speed but i must admit i'm praying for aa monthly allowance rather than daily as i think this would apeall to more consumers eg gamers that the higher speeds like the 1.5-3mg line is marketed at. please let NTL come out with an official statement soon confirming what the hell is officially gonna happen!!!!!!
anyway as i said before in a previous posting. I hope that it will stay as a monthly download limit. If it is capped at 1gb per day that won't allow much room for gamers who play beta's or download from fileplanet as they can be way over 1gb each. I love the service i get from NTL i'm on the 1.5mb and look forward to the new speed but i must admit i'm praying for aa monthly allowance rather than daily as i think this would apeall to more consumers eg gamers that the higher speeds like the 1.5-3mg line is marketed at. please let NTL come out with an official statement soon confirming what the hell is officially gonna happen!!!!!!
:LOL: I always laugh at the folks who reckon they can download 30 gig per month of legal data! :LOL:
:LOL: "I want unlimited BB because I download Linux distros" :LOL:
How often does a Linux distro come out? I'd be surprised if there were 30 gigs worth of Linux distros released each month! :p:
:LOL: I want to download game demos & they're over a gig each!" :LOL:
I personally believe the people that D/L over 30 or 40 gig per month are just leeching warez & should be big enough to admit it instead of the old "Linux Distros" chestnut.
And for those who say "But I up/download pictures & large documents to my work"-get a business connection & pay the relevant price for the privilege.
@ Martikus-My post wasn't aimed at you directly, more at the point you made about people who download "arge game demos"etc. :)
:welcome: to the site btw. :D
JohnHorb
21-02-2005, 19:39
I have to say that I also hope the cap is per month rather than per day. I use well under 10GB in a month, but if I'm downloading something from MSDN, I could easily go over 1GB in a particular day. Hopefully, we'll get a definitive answer in the not too far distant future.
:LOL: I always laugh at the folks who reckon they can download 30 gig per month of legal data! :LOL:
:LOL: "I want unlimited BB because I download Linux distros" :LOL:
How often does a Linux distro come out? I'd be surprised if there were 30 gigs worth of Linux distros released each month! :p:
:LOL: I want to download game demos & they're over a gig each!" :LOL:
I personally believe the people that D/L over 30 or 40 gig per month are just leeching warez & should be big enough to admit it instead of the old "Linux Distros" chestnut.
And for those who say "But I up/download pictures & large documents to my work"-get a business connection & pay the relevant price for the privilege.
@ Martikus-My post wasn't aimed at you directly, more at the point you made about people who download "arge game demos"etc. :)
:welcome: to the site btw. :D
Neil
Have a big green rep from me. That is a bang on post. NICE ONE
downquark1
21-02-2005, 19:53
I just want to point out I've never counted my bandwidth so I don't know if I use over 30gig a month, I was just pointing out some legal uses for high bandwidth caps.
Although when downloading from fileplanet the download would fail a few times so i must have clocked up about 7gig before giving up and getting my friend to dl it.
Dial up, why could people not stay online 24/7 ??? Cos there was only so many racks of modems so they forced a 2 hour cut off so people had a fighting chance to connect when they called. Fast Forward to Now, All ISP's want to impose a Cap, to restrict your useage - reason (there is a few) not enough bandwidth to manage the number of people connected to one point. Sounds familiar - so can we say then the Model of Cable Modem / ADSL has been outgrown yes??
The workd of Data is growing, Game demos which used to be small now come in at a Full CD Almost, MMORPG clients are DVD Sizes (WoW etc). Everytime someone mentioned they download a lot, Immedialty people jump on the "you are a Pirate" Bus - I have No idea whatsoever how much I download a day never mind a month, any Utils are rendered useless as Im on a LAN - so that gets clocked up too.
Maybe in XX years time we will look back at Broadband the same way we look at Dial up now. When a Leased Line got installed for a company I worked at they never dug up the road from Bradford to London, yet they felt the need to charge if i remeber £45,000 a ayear (was some time back).
Im sure someone mentioned its fibre most of the way on NTL, the last bit been copper, is it not technically possible to somehow replace that copper bit with something else? Did they not wire (close to NTL I will admit) a 155mbit line as a test?
The Plusnet model I can understand (capping) as the cost to BT is factored in on the cost - NTL on the other hand do not pay BT for such things - why is NTL / Telewest not the leading edge rather than keeping up with the rest?
Chrysalis
21-02-2005, 20:18
Because if they did that, all the stupid pirate CD burners would stay up all night doing it instead.
ahh I see now so this isn't about quality of service it is about policing the internet.
Yes that's all well and good Neil, and I've no doubt what you say is true in most cases. However do you agree that the reason for imposing limits is to enable ntl to increase the number of people on it's netwok and not in any way due to concern of breach of copyright on other people's material? The only people who should be concerned about this are the copyright holders themselves, yet for some reason there's loads of people on here who are also bothered.
I only use about 5 GB per month yet I'm not in favour of caps. Apart from the fact that I may want to change my habits in the future, this is the thin end of the wedge. People are going to require more and more bandwidth in the future as files sizes get bigger. I'd expect people to be either against the caps or apathetic, not actively in favour.
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 20:25
ahh I see now so this isn't about quality of service it is about policing the internet.
It's nothing of the sort.
People burning pirated CDs is an illegal use of the company's bandwidth. Why should the company fork out to allow people to do something that's illegal?
They just want people doing stuff like that to get off the network. They aren't interested in having them prosecuted or anything, just in getting rid of them.
Chrysalis
21-02-2005, 20:26
Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.
In a previous post I think I remember working it out to be somewhere around 60:1 contention.
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 20:27
Yes that's all well and good Neil, and I've no doubt what you say is true in most cases. However do you agree that the reason for imposing limits is to enable ntl to increase the number of people on it's netwok and not in any way due to concern of breach of copyright on other people's material?
What's wrong with the that? The company isn't a charity, and if removing people doing illegal stuff makes room for people who aren't doing illegal stuff, then so much the better.
The arguments in favour of unlimited use are starting to look weaker and weaker as people are now resorting to trying to justify illegal activity.
Chrysalis
21-02-2005, 20:29
Neil
Have a big green rep from me. That is a bang on post. NICE ONE
LOL whilst I disagree with him the way he laid out the post has made me laugh.
downquark1
21-02-2005, 20:31
The arguments in favour of unlimited use are starting to look weaker and weaker as people are now resorting to trying to justify illegal activity.
I'd say the case it getting stronger and stronger as more high bandwidth LEGAL options are comming availiable.
5 years ago nobody would dream of sending a 4 gig beta file over the internet.
Chrysalis
21-02-2005, 20:31
I would like to see proof there is no operating profit (excluding debt payments)
NTL Would have to be be paying well over the going rate for £17 a month to not make a profit on 3 gig traffic.
Or have I forgot how much india call staff wages cost? and the redundancy payments for the sacked engineers?
scrotnig
21-02-2005, 20:33
I'd say the case it getting stronger and stronger as more high bandwidth LEGAL options are comming availiable.
5 years ago nobody would dream of sending a 4 gig beta file over the internet.
You may be right, but I'm talking specifically about the arguments presented in this forum, which have now basically degenrated into 'what right have ntl got to act as internet police and stop me doing illegal things on my ntl connection?', which I'm sure you'll agree is both lame and unconvincing.
LOL whilst I disagree with him the way he laid out the post has made me laugh.
What part do you disagree with?
Whilst the post was (obviously) humorous, the point I was making was totally serious.
1) How many game demos are 700 meg each?
1B) How often do/have they come out?
2) How many games that are DVD sized are available for download?
2B) How often do/have they come out?
And regarding my views of what people download-I really don't give a monkey's puffhole what people download (legal or otherwise), just don't leech 50 odd gig per month & try to BS us that it's all legal. :nono: :D
There's nothing wrong with that Neil, I just wanted to get it clear. Do you not agree with the 2nd paragraph in my post?
downquark1
21-02-2005, 20:41
You may be right, but I'm talking specifically about the arguments presented in this forum, which have now basically degenrated into 'what right have ntl got to act as internet police and stop me doing illegal things on my ntl connection?', which I'm sure you'll agree is both lame and unconvincing.
I can see the libertarian point that the content of the bandwidth is no concerns of ntl. ntl have a right to limit there service, but I'm sure that they are doing this purely for cost reasons than for hurting the warez industry. The whole issue of legal conduct seems simply to justify the well u don't need that much bandwidth anyway argument. Suppose someone downloads the same demo over and over again, or leaves a radio stream running, perfectly legal just a bit of waste.
I have to admit 30 gig a month sounds quite generous, but as I've never bothered to add up my bandwidth usuage I can't tell how it affects me.
Yes that's all well and good Neil
I know. ;)
However do you agree that the reason for imposing limits is to enable ntl to increase the number of people on it's netwok and not in any way due to concern of breach of copyright on other people's material?
I have no idea as I don't work for ntl, but I would suspect it's a data capacity/cost issue (same as most ISPs I would think)
The only people who should be concerned about this are the copyright holders themselves, yet for some reason there's loads of people on here who are also bothered.
That depends on the legal teams & who they hold initially responsible I would suspect.
I only use about 5 GB per month yet I'm not in favour of caps.
Warez monkey! :D
Apart from the fact that I may want to change my habits in the future, this is the thin end of the wedge. People are going to require more and more bandwidth in the future as files sizes get bigger. I'd expect people to be either against the caps or apathetic, not actively in favour.
Horses for courses really, but I think most people's problem with ntl's cap, is that it was forced upon them quietly on a Friday afternoon, rather then them signing up to it knowingly & willingly.
Hans Gruber
21-02-2005, 20:46
I'd just like to point out that's it's not only the people that go over 30gb a month that are opposed to the cap.
Spurs007
21-02-2005, 20:46
While this thread allegedly is supposed to be about the speed increases, and as so often has degenerated into a cap discussion ;) With sarcastic comments aplenty. And the rights, (And obvious wrongs) of illegal or otherwise use of your NTL connection, I just feel that I would say this:
I am happy with NTL, have very few problems, I admit I occasionaly go over 1gb a day and this is what worries me that the cap will be a daily limit rather than monthly, as there are many legal downloads that are over 1gb.
No I dont download Linux ISO's or game demos on a daily basis, nor am I constantly downloading.
But nor do I feel I should be penalised financially for downloading a large file when the one off occasion I do so means I pay extra, when my overall total per month is far below 30gb.
And to bring it back to speed I cant wait for the upgrades :tu:
homealone
21-02-2005, 20:52
Well I think that now it is going to cost me so much more in blank media, per month, that NTL should cut the price, when they put the speeds up, or send me a cake & some sleeves with each bill. :jk:
ian@huth
21-02-2005, 23:47
"PlusNet is the first ISP to announce how BT's speed trials will affect its business model. Previously, the price of its Premier product ranged from £21.99 a month for a 512Kbps connection to £39.99 per month for a 2Mbps line. But from April, PlusNet will shift to usage-based charging, where £21.99 will buy 30GB of peak-time data per month plus another 230GB per month during the night. Customers can pay more to get a larger monthly download limit."
An ISP with sense, you will find most users are not against caps as a whole they just against biased caps, plusnet realised night time capacity isnt an issue and allow users to take advantage. Why cant NTL?Sorry to dig up a slightly older post but I haven't been online much the past couple of days.
There have been quite a number of posts about not wanting to have to monitor internet usage and not wanting to have to watch what the kids are doing on their PCs. How would those people fare with the Plusnet offering? Suppose you move to Plusnet when the 8Mb speeds are available and you live close enough to the exchange to get the 8Mb.
Plusnet gets activated on your line and away you go. First job is to do a speed check. Yippee, you're getting the full 8Mb. Right, lets get to work. What can I download overnight? Yep, got it all worked out, a few linux distros and all those massive game demos, but I will have to stay up till 1 am to start the downloads off so I don't use up my peak hours.
A couple of days later you decide to check your usage. What!!!!!!!, I have less than 1Gb left of my peak hours and there are still 28 days to go this month. What's gone wrong? Check usage logs. Drat, the overnight downloads were only coming through at 1 Mb not 8 Mb for some reason and most of them were completed in peak time. B***** kids, they've been maxing out the connection during peak time as well, will ahve to have words with them and keep an eye on what they're doing. Who said this b***** Plusnet was a good deal with hundreds of gigs a month for so little? Only time I can use it now is during the night. F****** ****** ****** *******!!!!
I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours.
If you're a serious internet and/or computer user you won't even acknowledge the existence of AOL, since their disgusting software is as good as having a virus on your machine if you ever want to use another provider.
There are other reasons too.
__________________
Only because some of us have got to the point where we're fed up with having crap hurled at us and having to be nice and fluffy in reply.
I, personally, speak my mind now and voice my own opinion. Some people don't like that because I dare to disagree with them. That's tough on them.
Simple solution dont use aol software you dont have to use it even if they are your ISP provider.
Sorry to dig up a slightly older post but I haven't been online much the past couple of days.
There have been quite a number of posts about not wanting to have to monitor internet usage and not wanting to have to watch what the kids are doing on their PCs. How would those people fare with the Plusnet offering? Suppose you move to Plusnet when the 8Mb speeds are available and you live close enough to the exchange to get the 8Mb.
Plusnet gets activated on your line and away you go. First job is to do a speed check. Yippee, you're getting the full 8Mb. Right, lets get to work. What can I download overnight? Yep, got it all worked out, a few linux distros and all those massive game demos, but I will have to stay up till 1 am to start the downloads off so I don't use up my peak hours.
A couple of days later you decide to check your usage. What!!!!!!!, I have less than 1Gb left of my peak hours and there are still 28 days to go this month. What's gone wrong? Check usage logs. Drat, the overnight downloads were only coming through at 1 Mb not 8 Mb for some reason and most of them were completed in peak time. B***** kids, they've been maxing out the connection during peak time as well, will ahve to have words with them and keep an eye on what they're doing. Who said this b***** Plusnet was a good deal with hundreds of gigs a month for so little? Only time I can use it now is during the night. F****** ****** ****** *******!!!!
Surely, what plusnet are doing is going to cause more speed problems because they are now telling everyone to download within the same time period which is going to flood the network and people won't be able to max their connections :shrug: My understanding of the term 'peak time' is when most are using their broadband connection. Aren't they just moving the peak time from 6pm to 10pm to 12am to 6am :shrug:
Also, what happens when people don't use up their quota. Are plusnet going to carry it forward to the next month or perhaps give people a refund seeing as it is a usage-based charge and they haven't used their quota :scratch: I don't think so. Use it or lose it ;)
Chrysalis
22-02-2005, 09:28
Well the plusnet idea is good for people like me, I do most of my downloading when I go to bed anyway, for 2 reasons.
1 - Out of respect for gamers who like to play games in the evening.
2 - So it doesnt affect my own connection as I do a lot of stuff on secure telnet.
I can understand its not good for everyone, there are cases where you have to be at your pc to do your downloading but I think that type of downloading is usually for smaller files and within the 30 gig limit they give you, if not then yeah its a bad situation. But plusnet's idea certianly is better then ntl's implementation at least they are aiming to please as many people as possible.
ian@huth
22-02-2005, 10:53
Well the plusnet idea is good for people like me, I do most of my downloading when I go to bed anyway, for 2 reasons.
1 - Out of respect for gamers who like to play games in the evening.
2 - So it doesnt affect my own connection as I do a lot of stuff on secure telnet.
I can understand its not good for everyone, there are cases where you have to be at your pc to do your downloading but I think that type of downloading is usually for smaller files and within the 30 gig limit they give you, if not then yeah its a bad situation. But plusnet's idea certianly is better then ntl's implementation at least they are aiming to please as many people as possible.The point that I was making was that you still have to carefully monitor your use if you have a service such as Plusnet. The really heavy downloaders will try to cram as much as they can through in the off-peak period and if their connection goes slow for whatever reason during that period then a lot of the queued downloads will actually take place in peak time.
tommyboi
22-02-2005, 11:02
Is there a timetable for the speed upgrade on the 14th? It be sweet to see Glasgow get the upgrade at like 9am.
The changes are due from the 14th, not necessarily on the 14th
Re the proposed 3 gb cap on 1mb, after testing throughput with net monitor i find that just having modem connected and computer running 12 hours daily without any surfing or downloading etc. approx 6oomb is used on a monthly basis.
So the cap is in reality 2.5 gb for my setup, if you are running 24/7 well then you can kiss goodbye to 1 gb.
One big con if you ask me.
Re the proposed 3 gb cap on 1mb, after testing throughput with net monitor i find that just having modem connected and computer running 12 hours daily without any surfing or downloading etc. approx 6oomb is used on a monthly basis.
So the cap is in reality 2.5 gb for my setup, if you are running 24/7 well then you can kiss goodbye to 1 gb.
One big con if you ask me.
600Mb per month without browsing? Somehow I think you may find your figures are wrong. I take it you have made sure your system is clean and no background apps were running updates etc?
Re the proposed 3 gb cap on 1mb, after testing throughput with net monitor i find that just having modem connected and computer running 12 hours daily without any surfing or downloading etc. approx 6oomb is used on a monthly basis.
So the cap is in reality 2.5 gb for my setup, if you are running 24/7 well then you can kiss goodbye to 1 gb.
One big con if you ask me.
That's 20 meg per day. :erm:
Are you sure you checking it correctly? :angel:
:LOL: I always laugh at the folks who reckon they can download 30 gig per month of legal data! :LOL:
:LOL: "I want unlimited BB because I download Linux distros" :LOL:
How often does a Linux distro come out? I'd be surprised if there were 30 gigs worth of Linux distros released each month! :p:
:LOL: I want to download game demos & they're over a gig each!" :LOL:
I personally believe the people that D/L over 30 or 40 gig per month are just leeching warez & should be big enough to admit it instead of the old "Linux Distros" chestnut.
And for those who say "But I up/download pictures & large documents to my work"-get a business connection & pay the relevant price for the privilege.
@ Martikus-My post wasn't aimed at you directly, more at the point you made about people who download "arge game demos"etc. :)
:welcome: to the site btw. :D
I agree.
I personally would consider myself a Power User (play about with new software, linux included, games etc), and I doubt I have ever gone over the current limit.
The only time I even came close was recently when I was trying out various Linux distros (to see which I liked).
Also with Game demos, whilst it's true that game demos increasingly going over 1 gig, I don't download that many in a day (apart from anything else, it's not practical due to download speeds, and I like to spend some time enjoying what I download).
Easy way to test your setup, run a net monitor (analogx, dumeter etc.) run it for an hour on your machine without accessing web etc also ensure no auto update progs are running and then after an hour check the totals, multiply by 12, then 7, then 4 and this will give the monthly idle total for 12 hours a day.
I think the calculation is correct but you try it and see.
ian@huth
22-02-2005, 13:12
Re the proposed 3 gb cap on 1mb, after testing throughput with net monitor i find that just having modem connected and computer running 12 hours daily without any surfing or downloading etc. approx 6oomb is used on a monthly basis.
So the cap is in reality 2.5 gb for my setup, if you are running 24/7 well then you can kiss goodbye to 1 gb.
One big con if you ask me.Looking at my daily stats, the lowest daily usage I have had this year is 6.78 Mb combined upload and download and that is with the computer running and online 24 hours a day. That 6.78 Mb day I checked my email several times and came on Cableforum for a few hours. My total January usage, combined upload and download, was 1.034 Gb. This was with 24/7 computer uptime and online connection and over 12 hours a day using the net.
Easy way to test your setup, run a net monitor (analogx, dumeter etc.) run it for an hour on your machine without accessing web etc also ensure no auto update progs are running and then after an hour check the totals, multiply by 12, then 7, then 4 and this will give the monthly idle total for 12 hours a day.
I think the calculation is correct but you try it and see.
The calculation may be correct but if your figures are right then you have a serious problem with your setup because it shouldn't be moving 600Mb of data each month while idle ;)
At home there are 2 pcs on a router, we montiored both pc's over a 2 day period and even with browsing, downloading emails etc we were still within the limits for our connection speed.
.... and remeber it's only the download traffic that *you* do, not any background noise ...
just run netstat for an hour with machine idle and the only prog that would access the net is autoupdate for avast, as that is up to date there would not be a lot of traffic there, got 2.3mb of traffic in that hour. I have little process running and no spyware etc, disabled icmp in firewall, this is just incoming traffic,constant, average of 700bytes.
I agree.
I personally would consider myself a Power User (play about with new software, linux included, games etc), and I doubt I have ever gone over the current limit.
The only time I even came close was recently when I was trying out various Linux distros (to see which I liked).
Also with Game demos, whilst it's true that game demos increasingly going over 1 gig, I don't download that many in a day (apart from anything else, it's not practical due to download speeds, and I like to spend some time enjoying what I download).
The point still remains that it is possible to go over the cap legally, and not everyone is a pirate granted a lot of people are doing this but some of us genuinely are not. I would go on a business line without a seconds thought but at a 2 year contract needs some thinking about.
just run netstat for an hour with machine idle and the only prog that would access the net is autoupdate for avast, as that is up to date there would not be a lot of traffic there, got 2.3mb of traffic in that hour. I have little process running and no spyware etc, disabled icmp in firewall, this is just incoming traffic,constant, average of 700bytes.
Have you tried a different monitoring tool? There must be something accessing the connection. What gets listed if you do a
netstat /a
in a cmd box??
ian@huth
22-02-2005, 15:30
just run netstat for an hour with machine idle and the only prog that would access the net is autoupdate for avast, as that is up to date there would not be a lot of traffic there, got 2.3mb of traffic in that hour. I have little process running and no spyware etc, disabled icmp in firewall, this is just incoming traffic,constant, average of 700bytes.Just did the same for 65 minutes and had total traffic, upload and download combined, of 136.8KB. Probably the difference is because I don't use p2p. :)
Have you tried a different monitoring tool? There must be something accessing the connection. What gets listed if you do a
netstat /a
in a cmd box??
netstat/a:
Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP home:epmap home:0 LISTENING
TCP home:microsoft-ds home:0 LISTENING
TCP home:1026 home:0 LISTENING
TCP home:1338 localhost:1337 TIME_WAIT
UDP home:microsoft-ds *:*
UDP home:1025 *:*
UDP home:1072 *:*
UDP home:1073 *:*
UDP home:1074 *:*
UDP home:ntp *:*
UDP home:ntp *:*
Tried dumeter and another freeby net monitor all give same results.
Just wanted to post a quick note getting this back on the speed rather than cap topic somewhat.
I have the 750K package through a Pace STB and realising I would not be upgraded to 2Mb without an upgrade to the STB I rang CS yesterday. The happily booked me in for a STB swap for the 10th March which was the earliest slot they had. I am in the Leeds area but would suspect these lead times are mirrored throught the country.
So the suggestion is to ring up CS now and book that PACE-> Samsung upgrade if you want 2Mb as soon as it is available.
:)
just run netstat for an hour with machine idle and the only prog that would access the net is autoupdate for avast, as that is up to date there would not be a lot of traffic there, got 2.3mb of traffic in that hour. I have little process running and no spyware etc, disabled icmp in firewall, this is just incoming traffic,constant, average of 700bytes.Either: your PC has been compromised with some malware (or has P2P running);
Or: your network traffic recording application is incorrectly counting incoming broadcast traffic (e.g. ARPs, DHCP discovery) in its totals.
You should not count ARPs and DHCP broadcasts in your traffic totals if you are trying to emulate or predict an ISP's volume-related capping or charging.
Hans Gruber
22-02-2005, 16:42
TCP home:1338 localhost:1337 TIME_WAIT
Unless you know what that is, it might be worth worrying a little.
Either: your PC has been compromised with some malware (or has P2P running);
Or: your network traffic recording application is incorrectly counting incoming broadcast traffic (e.g. ARPs, DHCP discovery) in its totals.
You should not count ARPs and DHCP broadcasts in your traffic totals if you are trying to emulate or predict an ISP's volume-related capping or charging.
no p2p or malware but after further investigation using ethereal i find that all the traffic is ARP which apparently comes from local UBR looking for loads of addresses none of which are mine, incidently I believe ARP is counted as download traffic and continues even when pc is switched off.
looselipsuk
22-02-2005, 17:07
If anybody is interested I am using a programme called CS Fire Monitor which gives details about your computer set up plus logs bandwidth activity which is saved to a file on a daily basis.
It is spyware free and also free for home use.
Either do a google search for it or I can supply the url address.
Well my bandwidth recorder program shows 10kB every 5 seconds being downloaded when not active, zonealarm doesn't show any activity so there is no problem with pc. I say the program is counting the unnecassary download from the DHCP
ian@huth
22-02-2005, 17:19
All this traffic that some users are saying they get when nothing is running is probably p2p users trying to connect to them for their usual fix of downloads. :D
Lies to be honest. I have no p2p program open, my connection is perfect, Zone alarm reports no activity but the program NetMeter is recording the downstream from the DHCP it seems.
Ignition
22-02-2005, 17:32
incidently I believe ARP is counted as download traffic and continues even when pc is switched off.
Only unicasts and multicasts would be counted, not broadcasts, as I mentioned to you several days and several posts on this issue ago.
Take that as officially as you want, broadcast traffic will absolutely not be counted under any bandwidth allowance.
BTW on a slightly different subject if you have been connected to a P2P network you can get probes from nodes on that network trying to find your client, open or not, days after you've closed the client.
ian@huth
22-02-2005, 17:35
Lies to be honest. I have no p2p program open, my connection is perfect, Zone alarm reports no activity but the program NetMeter is recording the downstream from the DHCP it seems.You say that you have no p2p program open which suggests that you do use p2p. Is that the case or have you never used p2p? Netmeter will not show you what the traffic is, just how much there is.
You say that you have no p2p program open which suggests that you do use p2p. Is that the case or have you never used p2p? Netmeter will not show you what the traffic is, just how much there is.
never used p2p and never will use, have no need for it, don't use any of messenger crap either just surf and email.
I use p2p, but haven't even had the program open today. Zone alarm states no traffic and there are no processes that would indicate any activity.
ian@huth
22-02-2005, 17:45
I use p2p, but haven't even had the program open today. Zone alarm states no traffic and there are no processes that would indicate any activity.You don't need to have used p2p today. Depending on what p2p software you use, other users who you have connected with in the past will know your ip addy and come looking for you to see what else you may have that they want.
OinkyBoinky
22-02-2005, 17:59
You don't need to have used p2p today. Depending on what p2p software you use, other users who you have connected with in the past will know your ip addy and come looking for you to see what else you may have that they want.
say u've just been assigned a new IP.. and the preivous user was a heavy p2p user... you could find people trying to connect to ur IP thinking ur the other person... probably more likely with ADSL where most people have dynamic ips tho...
Well my bandwidth recorder program shows 10kB every 5 seconds being downloaded when not active, zonealarm doesn't show any activity so there is no problem with pc. I say the program is counting the unnecassary download from the DHCP
what program are you using.
saxo_vtr_paul
22-02-2005, 19:36
Just wanted to post a quick note getting this back on the speed rather than cap topic somewhat.
I have the 750K package through a Pace STB and realising I would not be upgraded to 2Mb without an upgrade to the STB I rang CS yesterday. The happily booked me in for a STB swap for the 10th March which was the earliest slot they had. I am in the Leeds area but would suspect these lead times are mirrored throught the country.
So the suggestion is to ring up CS now and book that PACE-> Samsung upgrade if you want 2Mb as soon as it is available.
:)
done, mine is gettin upgraded this saturday :)
On my monitor, there is a constant background noise of 0.7Kb/s - no connections of any kind, no firewall reports - I just threw a "drop ARP traffic" filter on the interface (my lovely Intel chipset card with "Priority Packet" and it all went - now I must disengage the filter, or there'll be trouble!
And please can we steer back to speed upgrades in this thread, the only reason to mention caps here, is in their relevance to the speed, like "how quick can you burn up 3Gb at 1Mbit, or 30Gb at Mbit instead of 2Mbit, which is all you get for £13 more!
Just wanted to post a quick note getting this back on the speed rather than cap topic somewhat.
I have the 750K package through a Pace STB and realising I would not be upgraded to 2Mb without an upgrade to the STB I rang CS yesterday. The happily booked me in for a STB swap for the 10th March which was the earliest slot they had. I am in the Leeds area but would suspect these lead times are mirrored throught the country.
So the suggestion is to ring up CS now and book that PACE-> Samsung upgrade if you want 2Mb as soon as it is available.
In response to above, I contacted CS. They referred me to Sales who told me no solution to the upgrade had been agreed. There were not enough Samsungs for all the upgrades and they may take the modem route and leave original STB's in situ.
They will contact customers in March and invite them to upgrade and take it from there
sheridan
23-02-2005, 09:51
Ntl will be updating there speeds so I understand .300k will be 1meg
but with 3gb monthly usage .
how can i find out how much usage that i have been using on average ,
is there a way .
Ntl will be updating there speeds so I understand .300k will be 1meg
but with 3gb monthly usage .
how can i find out how much usage that i have been using on average ,
is there a way .
I use DUMeter, but there are others. Do a search on here for "bandwidth monitor"
sheridan
23-02-2005, 10:06
I use DUMeter, but there are others. Do a search on here for "bandwidth monitor"
thanks for that ..very handy ..
DieDieMyDarling
23-02-2005, 10:43
I use DuMeter too, but i've been having problems with it, crashing and getting runtime errors when i run certain other things, like Half Life 2, and a few others. It's still the best i've tried though.
zing_deleted
23-02-2005, 11:17
i could have sworn i was moaned at a couple of days ago for going off topic is it ok now some of the higher cf members are doing it
I think that instead of increasing the d/l speed they should improve the u/l speed first. What is the point of Having 3MB d/l when u/l is only 300K
ian@huth
23-02-2005, 12:33
I think that instead of increasing the d/l speed they should improve the u/l speed first. What is the point of Having 3MB d/l when u/l is only 300KIncreasing download speed is far easier than increasing upload speed. Which would you prefer, 8 Mb down with 300 k up, 3 Mb down with 300k up or 2 Mb down with 300k up?
Chrysalis
23-02-2005, 12:43
I think NTL's upload is saturated on my ubr and many others so I am against increased upload speeds.
I think that instead of increasing the d/l speed they should improve the u/l speed first. What is the point of Having 3MB d/l when u/l is only 300K
Maybe the bulk of the public (and therefore NTL's customer base) don't really do much uploading?
Must admit, upload has never been a concern for me, or most of the people i know.
There are many who always want to download faster, thats for sure. ;)
However having been on the internet quite some time [Compuserve dial-up anyone? :(] these days i would sooner have constant speed and reliability, something i cant knock NTL for in all honesty.
as long as its over a meg in speed always on and cheap i dont care
testcard
23-02-2005, 16:56
What is "broadcast traffic?"
philquinney
23-02-2005, 16:58
What is "broadcast traffic?"
Traffic directed at a number of hosts, rather than just one. Just like the way a TV Broadcast is transmitted and lots of TV's tune in to it by "listening" to a frequency.
Phil.
testcard
23-02-2005, 17:12
Traffic directed at a number of hosts, rather than just one. Just like the way a TV Broadcast is transmitted and lots of TV's tune in to it by "listening" to a frequency.
Phil.
Cheers
Web radio is broadcast
But your selected Video from Broadband Plus would not be.
Have I got the idea
martikus
23-02-2005, 17:28
:LOL: I always laugh at the folks who reckon they can download 30 gig per month of legal data! :LOL:
:LOL: "I want unlimited BB because I download Linux distros" :LOL:
How often does a Linux distro come out? I'd be surprised if there were 30 gigs worth of Linux distros released each month! :p:
:LOL: I want to download game demos & they're over a gig each!" :LOL:
I personally believe the people that D/L over 30 or 40 gig per month are just leeching warez & should be big enough to admit it instead of the old "Linux Distros" chestnut.
And for those who say "But I up/download pictures & large documents to my work"-get a business connection & pay the relevant price for the privilege.
@ Martikus-My post wasn't aimed at you directly, more at the point you made about people who download "arge game demos"etc. :)
:welcome: to the site btw. :D
sorry to go back to an old posting but i haven't been to the forum for a few days and wanted to reply. I actually did go over 30gb the other month. And yes it was legitametly with the beta of world of warcraft, a free trial of everquest, an everquest 2 beta, the matrix online beta and several other beta test. i also subscribe to official music download sites and yes i did download a few linux distro's as i have 2 machines and was looking at setting up an old 486 pc as a firewall box for the other system. Now i'm the first to admit this was not normal usage, it was a one off. most monthes i use about 9gb at the most. All my point was that i would prefer a monthly limit rather than an inforced daily limit as a daily limit of 1gb will not let me enjoy beta tests as much as i do. i think that the caps are a good idea it will get the leaches away from NTL, and improve all the other users service. Just want a monthly total cap thats all
martikus
23-02-2005, 18:14
oh and i can't wait for the speed increases. especially the upload speed increase even if it is small, it's very welcome. Will give me that bit more of an edge in online games
philquinney
23-02-2005, 18:57
Cheers
Web radio is broadcast
But your selected Video from Broadband Plus would not be.
Have I got the idea
Both Web Radio and Broadband Plus are non-broadcast. Your computer requests data from a server (be it video or audio). Broadcasting is only really done on local network segments.
Phil.
JohnHorb
23-02-2005, 18:59
IIRC web radio is multicast rather than directed or broadcast. Don't know what that means in terms of caps, though.
In the context, "broadcast" traffic means things directed at 255.255.255.255 - such as initial DHCP requests and replies, though my own test revealed that ARP (address resolution protocol) is the major component of the 0.7k background.
To pick up the on topic thread again, it looks like (if nothing alse changes, or turns out to be a false rumour).
1. 300k users have the choice of staying at 300k and "normal" limit, or moving to 1 Mbit / 3Gb per month
2. 750k users can have the upgrade to 2Mbit, but only with a hardware update if currently using a PACE STB for broadband
3. 1.5Mbit users go up to 3Mbit, but it's a poor value tariff compared to the 2Mbit, with no increase in quota
"Normal" limit - is still uncertain as to 1Gb/day soft, 1Gb/day hard, or 30Gb/month - and a rigidly enforced cap would represent a real-terms downgrade in quota over just picking on the gross abusers, and not that many of them, but the place for that is the other thread - point is, the proposed "upgrades" are not all positive - the most favorable deal goes to the £24.99 lot, but they may be getting nervous that the top and bottom tiers got bumped up by £3, and they did not.
Chrysalis
23-02-2005, 21:29
On the business lite package I got a phonecall back today, they answered many of my questions with positive answers.
But the key thing is I got agreement if I do go ahead with business lite they will put it on paper I am ok to use it in my home and not on business premises.
testcard
23-02-2005, 21:36
Thanks Guys
I understand little more
Any word on upload increases? I need to order for my new house and U/L + soft cap confirm could really be the difference between ADSL and ntl cable...
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/139/ntl-broadband-speed-increases-update-3
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/139/ntl-broadband-speed-increases-update-3
Thanks Nem, are those new uploads concrete or just pretty likley?
Ignition
24-02-2005, 16:04
IIRC web radio is multicast rather than directed or broadcast. Don't know what that means in terms of caps, though.
Nope web radio is unicast still.
Only way for multicast to work would be for a network to be compatible with IGMP (Internet Group Management Protocol) from end to end.
Thanks Nem, are those new uploads concrete or just pretty likley?
AFAIK concrete .... but it still might be a little wet ;)
yes concrete definately :)
Haven't noticed this question as yet so here goes; will uploads count along with downloads in the cap? If they do then the caps are going to be rather worse still.
Oh and hi all, spot the newbie:tu:
Hi encaser
Welcome to the forums :)
This question would be more suited to the cap thread - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=21625
But to answer your question as far as I know - yes it will count for up/down
But to answer your question as far as I know - yes it will count for up/downActually, the indications are that it will be download only.
Actually, the indications are that it will be download only.
Well there you are - something I was not aware of :)
Actually, the indications are that it will be download only.
but i thought uploading was the main source of congestion on the network as its a scarce commodity :)
Hans Gruber
24-02-2005, 17:08
Actually, the indications are that it will be download only.
I thought the point of the caps was to try and stop people saturating the upstream with p2p apps?
edit: kronas you beat me :p:
Chrysalis
24-02-2005, 17:42
but i thought uploading was the main source of congestion on the network as its a scarce commodity :)
I thought the same, why is there no upload limit?
Ignition
24-02-2005, 18:41
FGS just to stop this and so that this thread doesn't keep going on and on about about this stuff doesn't it seem interesting to anyone that this is the same guidelines, etc, that are applying currently. 'Soft' capping, 1GB/day suggested. Although no doubt those really nailing it will probably be spoken to with some more enthusiasm than previously due to the higher potential to degrade the networks with their higher speeds.
Did anyone actually bother to read what was posted elsewhere regarding this, for example that this usage is a 'guideline' until later in the year when firm capping will come in as the systems to police it aren't ready yet (as posted on ntlhell).
http://forums.ntlhell.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7280&hl=
This will not be monitored til latter in the year and customers will be informed when this comes in. Options supplied to those exceeding limits. "We will continue to run campaigns with heavy users".
When hard capping is properly enforced yes it will count on all traffic.
Now if we can get this thread away from capping it'd be wonderful. Any more questions I'll be in my orifice, following the example of various people here.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/139/ntl-broadband-speed-increases-update-3This is getting a bit confusing now.
This was posted by Russ D,2 days after the link posted by Nemesis:-
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=401181&postcount=636
No wonder members are getting confused!
Which is the latest info?
but i thought uploading was the main source of congestion on the network as its a scarce commodity :)
OT - That really hits the mark. It goes to show that we were all lied to when we were told that 'capping is necessary to prevent the minority of heavy users affecting everybody else's service'. This was just a cynical tactic used by ntl to put customer against customer. The truth of the matter is that there is no congestion for the most part. It's all about ntl trying to squeeze even more out of their cash-cow product. Luckily it's all just so much hot air at the moment and they are even apparently saying that there will be no usage monitoring at first.
Hans Gruber
24-02-2005, 19:28
When hard capping is properly enforced yes it will count on all traffic.
Now if we can get this thread away from capping it'd be wonderful. Any more questions I'll be in my orifice, following the example of various people here.
Oooh :handbags:
There's no need to be like that, it was a mod that said it was likely to be only downstream, so we only assumed he had his facts right.
Ignition
24-02-2005, 19:36
Oooh :handbags:
There's no need to be like that, it was a mod that said it was likely to be only downstream, so we only assumed he had his facts right.
Try paying attention, initially it won't be monitored closely but once the hard capping starts will be bidirectional, the policies will be a continuation of the current AUP initially.
Obvious please read up a little bit to my reply before yours re: continuation of current AUP and changes later this year.
The details we were passed, which from the way they were written, I believe were an ntl memo, said ;
In mid-March we will be upgrading all our Broadband services for no extra cost! All new customers will go onto one of these new speeds. Once they have launched, the old speeds will not be available to new customers:
300K will become 1Mb, for £17.99 per month, with a 3GB per month usage download limit (100K upload speed)
750K will become 2Mb, for £24.99 per month, with a 1GB per day usage download limit (200K upload speed)
1.5Mb will become 3Mb, for £37.99 per month, with a 1GB per day usage download limit (300K upload speed)
EXISTING CUSTOMERS: It has been decided that there will no longer be a £25 admin fee for customers to upgrade to the new speeds:
750K and 1.5Mb customers will be upgraded to the new speeds automatically, except for 750K Pace STB customers. 750K Pace STB customers can upgrade by calling Customer Services to arrange their Pace box to be swapped to a Samsung STB or a Cable Modem.
300K customers will not be upgraded automatically, as some customers may not wish to have the higher speed service with a lower monthly usage limit. However, they can still upgrade for free by calling Customer Services.
DOWNLOAD USAGE LIMIT: We will not be checking usage allowances until later this year. We will get in touch with customers directly who exceed their usage allowance and offer them information and alternative options (tbc)
MARKETING: The new speeds will be marketed to new customers as soon as they launch in mid-March. There will be no active marketing to 300K or 750K Pace STB customers, however those who call about the new speeds will be upgraded by Customer Services.
I have seen this reproduced on other sites as well.
Ignition
24-02-2005, 19:51
I'm far from convinced that's the actual case, and will check and find what the current story is, as it apparently seems to change as often as Liz Taylor's wedding ring.
MARKETING: The new speeds will be marketed to new customers as soon as they launch in mid-March. There will be no active marketing to 300K or 750K Pace STB customers, however those who call about the new speeds will be upgraded by Customer Services.
Is it just me who finds that deeply unfair to people on Pace STBs? why shouldnt they be upgraded because NTL chose (as is usually the case) for them to use a STB for both BB and TV? thats abhorrant behaviour imho and I really wish Ofcom could slap them for doing so, If that memo is accurate, if its not then Ill shut up :P
ian@huth
24-02-2005, 22:02
Is it just me who finds that deeply unfair to people on Pace STBs? why shouldnt they be upgraded because NTL chose (as is usually the case) for them to use a STB for both BB and TV? thats abhorrant behaviour imho and I really wish Ofcom could slap them for doing so, If that memo is accurate, if its not then Ill shut up :PI would imagine that 300k customers will not be automatically upgraded because there will be two options open to them, to stay on 300k or upgrade to 1 Mb. The 750k Pace STB customers will not be actively marketed because it will take time to upgrade their equipment to receive the 2 Mb service. I would hazard a guess that 750k Pace customers who do not ask for the upgrade will eventually get it when NTL get round to changing their equipment. There would probably be a very long wait for the upgrades if NTL waited until all customers had the right equipment needed for the new speeds.
OldGeezer
24-02-2005, 23:06
But "no active marketing" means to me that they won't even be told about it - that would be unfair.
DieDieMyDarling
24-02-2005, 23:57
A bit like changing the AUP and not telling anyone. :-D
downquark1
26-02-2005, 10:59
I called for upgrade, they're giving me a stand alone modem.
Is a Stand Alone Cable Modem better than having it via STB??
I will need to upgrade my STB from a Pace to Samsung as I'm currently on the 750K speed, which will go to 2MB shortly.
downquark1
26-02-2005, 12:49
Is a Stand Alone Cable Modem better than having it via STB??
I will need to upgrade my STB from a Pace to Samsung as I'm currently on the 750K speed, which will go to 2MB shortly.
Well I hinted at the box, but he offered the modem so I said it's ok. Its a bit of a pitty my old pace 1000 is getting slow.
The Samung box is suppose to be better at being a modem than the PACE, so I wouldn't think there was that much between them. Does anyone have an experience with Samsung and SACM?
goto www.webattack.com (http://www.webattack.com)
And get Netmeter
There seems to be much talk on both threads about the reasons for NTL capping users. So far I havent seen anyone mention what I think is the most obvious reason for capping.
NTL are protecting their interests. Funnily enough, so are BT too. What do they have in common? Well, they both provide telecommunications and/or TV services and it would have a huge impact on both of them if they were to lose that revenue.
So people using VOIP, or watching TV/Films via the internet is gonna hurt NTL hard, especially when they become more mainstream.
VOIP is starting to really take off now. You can buy a phone to put on the wall, plugged into a network socket instead of a NTL Phone point, and get very cheap, if not free, phone calls. No complicated techy stuff to setup.
It will get even more easier I suspect, with wireless VOIP phones so you dont even need the network point.
As bandwidth is getting cheaper (and will continue to do so) its fairly obvious to me that NTL aren't capping people because of the cost of bandwidth, but because of the potential threat to their business of people being able to get their phone & tv from a different source, cheaper.
There is a case going through the courts in the US, where an ISP (who also provided telecoms) was allegedly, corrupting the data packets of VOIP calls to stop people using this technology.
All capping does is hurt the future of the internet - although funnily enough NTL will now benefit from bandwidth hungry applications like online TV by charging for the bandwidth.
Who wants to wager that NTL will bring out their own VOIP/Internet TV service, which doesnt count toward your cap.....
or am I just being cynical?
robtufts
27-02-2005, 11:24
I'm against the cap, not because I would go over it regularly, but on the odd occasion where I would, I wouldn't like to be penalised.
Maybe it would be better if it were a rolling cap where if you don't use it you can carry over the unused usage? Much like mobile phone companies where the free minutes is essentially their version of usage and I'm able to carry mine over for upto 2 months if I don't use them.
Also I'm not complaining about the free upgrade, anything extra free is good, but why are the 1.5 mbit users getting the least (by percentage) upgrade? 300k 233% increase, 750k 166% and 1.5 only an extra 100%
seaneeboy
27-02-2005, 13:19
By actual speed though, the 1.5 meg people get the most - 300k get an extra 700k, 750 get an extra 1.25m and 1.5 get a whole extra 1.5m - Rather than looking at what the difference is as far as the deal goes, looking at it in real terms means it's a much better deal.
That's the thing with facts - you can prove most points you want to with them, just doesn't neccessarily mean they're right :)
By actual speed though, the 1.5 meg people get the most - 300k get an extra 700k, 750 get an extra 1.25m and 1.5 get a whole extra 1.5m - Rather than looking at what the difference is as far as the deal goes, looking at it in real terms means it's a much better deal.
That's the thing with facts - you can prove most points you want to with them, just doesn't neccessarily mean they're right :)
Another way to look at it is
300k get over 3 times increase
750 get over double increase
1.5 get double
robtufts
27-02-2005, 13:54
By actual speed though, the 1.5 meg people get the most - 300k get an extra 700k, 750 get an extra 1.25m and 1.5 get a whole extra 1.5m - Rather than looking at what the difference is as far as the deal goes, looking at it in real terms means it's a much better deal.
That's the thing with facts - you can prove most points you want to with them, just doesn't neccessarily mean they're right :)
Oh don't get me wrong I know the actual amount is greater, just was kind of putting it into perspective. :)
astra_lestat
27-02-2005, 16:20
The problem is that BT and NTL are not the only ISPs in the UK.
But when you leave BT for another ADSL, you only hurt them internet payment wise, when you leave NTL for another ADSL you also hurt NTL phone bills by turning to BT.
Then arises the question, why to stay with NTL?
Just a small example. TalkTalk ISP - 20 pounds - 256/512, 25 pounds 256/1024, both unlimited.
I pay 25 pounds to NTL for 128/750 with a soft cap of 1G per day.
Please give me one good reason why to stay with NTL?
It is just one example, there are more adsl companies that advertise more attractive packages for the same price or lower without ANY caps.
I have decided to stay with NTL anyway, for some reasons I cannot explain even to myself, I prefer to pay my phone bills and support NTL, not BT. But as I said a couple of pages before, the moment NTL enforces soft or hard caps, it is going to be the last nail in the coffin. I like to use the Internet without thinking about traffic. It doesn't really matter whether I go over 1g per day or not. Sometimes I have 3g, sometimes 0.5. Why should I bother about it when there are offers out there that could relieve me from this kind of problems for the same amount of money?
P.S. So far, NTL was very fair to me and never enforced 1g per day cap on me despite that there were times when I just subscribed to NTL and got access to the fast Internet and my traffic was something like 3-5G per day for months.
Chrysalis
27-02-2005, 17:02
There seems to be much talk on both threads about the reasons for NTL capping users. So far I havent seen anyone mention what I think is the most obvious reason for capping.
NTL are protecting their interests. Funnily enough, so are BT too. What do they have in common? Well, they both provide telecommunications and/or TV services and it would have a huge impact on both of them if they were to lose that revenue.
So people using VOIP, or watching TV/Films via the internet is gonna hurt NTL hard, especially when they become more mainstream.
VOIP is starting to really take off now. You can buy a phone to put on the wall, plugged into a network socket instead of a NTL Phone point, and get very cheap, if not free, phone calls. No complicated techy stuff to setup.
It will get even more easier I suspect, with wireless VOIP phones so you dont even need the network point.
As bandwidth is getting cheaper (and will continue to do so) its fairly obvious to me that NTL aren't capping people because of the cost of bandwidth, but because of the potential threat to their business of people being able to get their phone & tv from a different source, cheaper.
There is a case going through the courts in the US, where an ISP (who also provided telecoms) was allegedly, corrupting the data packets of VOIP calls to stop people using this technology.
All capping does is hurt the future of the internet - although funnily enough NTL will now benefit from bandwidth hungry applications like online TV by charging for the bandwidth.
Who wants to wager that NTL will bring out their own VOIP/Internet TV service, which doesnt count toward your cap.....
or am I just being cynical?
I didnt think of this, but this makes a lot of sense, we all know BT have deals with sky so would like to protect TV market and of course their own phone market, NTL are of course in the same boat. Then you look at isps such as plusnet (no cap during night) nildram (no cap) pipex (no cap) bulldog (no cap) easynet/ukonline (no cap/500 gig) these are all independant isp's and so have different interests in mind. The exception to this is telewest but maybe they just have adopted a different attitude where they feel it doesnt threaten their tv revenue.
IF they feel threatened then they need to make radical changes to the way UK people get treated, look at the motivation to download of the internet. One can get a High Defenition version of a TV episode before it even premiers in the UK so it is quite obvious what is wrong, similiar problem with the film industry, music industry is over cost of music and quality of songs so is a different matter.
1 - TV companies here pay more for show such as stargate,csi,24 etc. so its aired at same time as usa.
2 - We adopt HDTV technology so we have the same quality.
The solution is to remove the need to download stuff not to try and fight it because they will only lose. Their is isp's out there with no TV market to protect so they dont care about the situation. UK also has the highest tv downloading in the world we download 1/5th of all tv episodes downloaded worldwide.
Hans Gruber
27-02-2005, 18:00
There seems to be much talk on both threads about the reasons for NTL capping users. So far I havent seen anyone mention what I think is the most obvious reason for capping.
NTL are protecting their interests. Funnily enough, so are BT too. What do they have in common? Well, they both provide telecommunications and/or TV services and it would have a huge impact on both of them if they were to lose that revenue.
So people using VOIP, or watching TV/Films via the internet is gonna hurt NTL hard, especially when they become more mainstream.
VOIP is starting to really take off now. You can buy a phone to put on the wall, plugged into a network socket instead of a NTL Phone point, and get very cheap, if not free, phone calls. No complicated techy stuff to setup.
It will get even more easier I suspect, with wireless VOIP phones so you dont even need the network point.
As bandwidth is getting cheaper (and will continue to do so) its fairly obvious to me that NTL aren't capping people because of the cost of bandwidth, but because of the potential threat to their business of people being able to get their phone & tv from a different source, cheaper.
There is a case going through the courts in the US, where an ISP (who also provided telecoms) was allegedly, corrupting the data packets of VOIP calls to stop people using this technology.
All capping does is hurt the future of the internet - although funnily enough NTL will now benefit from bandwidth hungry applications like online TV by charging for the bandwidth.
Who wants to wager that NTL will bring out their own VOIP/Internet TV service, which doesnt count toward your cap.....
or am I just being cynical?
I'm sure I said that somewhere :p:
It certainly does make sense
Will the speed upgrades happen on march 14th or is that the first day you can ring ntl and request the upgrade?
bigitup_j
27-02-2005, 20:50
hoho!
march 14th. well guess what happens the next day?
financial results! ntl sure know how to please investors and shareholders. lol. and they first annouced the speed upgrades in their last results, i suppose they have to make it look like they have made some progress since the last financial results... :rolleyes:
i wonder what ntl have in store for us over the next quarter? :D 100mb broadband? :rolleyes:
:)
martikus
27-02-2005, 21:22
hoho!
march 14th. well guess what happens the next day?
financial results! ntl sure know how to please investors and shareholders. lol. and they first annouced the speed upgrades in their last results, i suppose they have to make it look like they have made some progress since the last financial results... :rolleyes:
i wonder what ntl have in store for us over the next quarter? :D 100mb broadband? :rolleyes:
:)
And free computers to go with that!!!! lmfao
I'm sure I said that somewhere :p:
It certainly does make sense
Frankly as the TV content is cr@p and the films they have on pay per view are frankly disappointing they will have to make a vast improvement on both those issues before it will be worthwhile to anyone. :(
DocDutch
27-02-2005, 21:42
just a quick question here....does any1 know yet a time plan for all these upgrades...last time NTL upgraded I was left out for around 2 months due to a "fault" on their side..
am living in the Northamptonshire area
JohnHorb
27-02-2005, 21:48
:welcome:
It's rumoured to be a 'big bang' this time - on 14th March. The only exception is if you are on 300K, in which case you might want to stay on that with the 30GB cap rather than going to 1MB with the 5GB cap (or is it 3GB - I've lost track), or if you are on 750KB and are getting BB through a PACE STB, in which case you'll need an upgrade to a Samsung STB. In either of these cases, you'll have to ring CS to arrange an upgrade.
Still no 'official' announcement though.
HeavyDude
27-02-2005, 22:04
With only 2 weeks until March 14 why is there still no official announcement?
Especially if the financial reports are released the next day... :confused:
JohnHorb
27-02-2005, 22:07
:welcome: to the forum. I suspect it's because of all the flack they got last time. They'd rather be 100% sure before any announcement. (Just my opinion).
HeavyDude
27-02-2005, 22:15
:welcome: to the forum. I suspect it's because of all the flack they got last time. They'd rather be 100% sure before any announcement. (Just my opinion).
Thanks for the welcome.
This is definitely a more serious upgrade than last time, but surely if some of us are going to need to change their STB (including me) then surely we should be informed of this well before the 'go live' date so the new STB can be in place by March 14.
But then we are dealing with NTL... :D
JohnHorb
27-02-2005, 22:17
I THINK some people may have already 'blagged' their STB upgrades (or they might give you a separate cable modem - I think there's a shortage of Samsungs ATM). Worth a call to CS?
saxo_vtr_paul
27-02-2005, 22:38
got my samsung box installed yesterday. It was upgraded from the Pace. So im now ready and waiting for my 2mb :)
cant wait :)
HeavyDude
27-02-2005, 23:26
I wish NTL would just put out an official announcement and kill all these rumours about capping,start date and STB's. Thousands of people will know nothing about any of this and will, as usual, be livid with NTL for saying nothing until the 'go live' date. I just want a definitive answer on whether the 30GB cap will be 1GB a day or 30GB over the month and whether the cap is upload and download or just download.
As usual with NTL, a group of pre-nursery children could of handled this better...
__________________
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That last message is probably in the wrong thread... :dunce:
ian@huth
27-02-2005, 23:28
Some people grumble because they are told of speed increases too soon.
Some people grumble because they are told too late.
Some people just grumble.
HeavyDude
27-02-2005, 23:39
Some people grumble because they are told of speed increases too soon.
Some people grumble because they are told too late.
Some people just grumble.
Yep, and some people grumble cos their ISP handle these situations about as well as the Palace does...
Alright, so how could they handle it better?
DieDieMyDarling
28-02-2005, 00:16
Some people grumble because they are told of speed increases too soon.
Some people grumble because they are told too late.
Some people just grumble.
Let's face it, with NTL there are many, many reasons we can all grumble, spoiled for choice. :angel:
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