Which modem router for me ?

[domtheboy]

Hi guys

I'm an NTL customer for Broadband which I am currently receiving through a cable modem. I've recently purchased a second PC and I'm interested in networking it with my existing PC in order to share files and my internet connection.

I don't want to go down the wireless route yet purely due to cost (I can't afford to) and so have been investigating the alternatives. I've been advised on a support forum that the best way to go would be to look at a modem router, and was wondering if anyone here could recommend one for me to use ? Also, if anyone could clarify something for me - does the modem router with the modem itself, or does it replace it and act as a standalone piece of hardware ?

Cheers

Dom ;)

[quadplay]

Don't get a router with a built-in modem - those available publicly in the UK are for DSL connections, and won't work with your cable broadband. There are routers available elsewhere that have a cable modem built in, but those won't work on the ntl system.

Your best bet is to have a look around a few sites like ebuyer, Dabs, etc., and choose one from there, making sure it's got an Ethernet WAN port, and not an ADSL modem.

[SMHarman]

:welcome:
the modem router route might be good for ADSL, but not for Cable

The NTL supplied CM or STB is the only hardware that will talk to the network. You need a router. Linksys make some good ones like the BEFSR11. Compare the cost to the WRT54G wireless, then you may buy that and not need to upgrade in the future.

[homealone]

Hi :welcome: to Cable Forum :wavey:

You can only connect to NTL using an NTL supplied cable modem - that is good news though, as you will only need an 'ordinary' router, rather than a combined router/modem (which only work with ADSL as far as i know).

:) <edit> must type faster ;)

[domtheboy]

Hi fellas, thanks for the warm welcome.


Just to clarify - with regards to what I actually need to go looking for (so I can be sepcific whilst browsing), am I looking for a "router" or a "cable router" - probably a silly question but I want to make sure I understand the distinction.

Cheers !

Dom

[flook]

you are looking for a router to work on a cable broadband internet connection. Linksys or netgear do them, i have a linksys BEFR summat or other, you can also get them with built in wireless for an extra tenner or so.


must have built in switch (4 port hub) otherwise you will need to buy a separate switch

[domtheboy]

you are looking for a router to work on a cable broadband internet connection. Linksys or netgear do them, i have a linksys BEFR summat or other, you can also get them with built in wireless for an extra tenner or so.


must have built in switch (4 port hub) otherwise you will need to buy a separate switch

Hi flook

It isn't the "LINKSYS BEFSX41" by any chance is it ? I'm just having a look on PC World's website at the options available (I hate PC World but unfortunately:

a) I am at work
b) I want to sort this out by tonight
c) They are open 'til 8 so I will end up having to go there !

Cheers

Dom

[SMHarman]

Hi flook

It isn't the "LINKSYS BEFSX41" by any chance is it ? I'm just having a look on PC World's website at the options available (I hate PC World but unfortunately:

a) I am at work
b) I want to sort this out by tonight
c) They are open 'til 8 so I will end up having to go there !

Cheers

Dom
That'll do nicely
http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=29&prid=433

[domtheboy]

Terrific - thanks again for your swift responses. Now on to the nitty gritty - how difficult do you expect it will be for me to set up my network ?


To give you a breakdown of my circumstances:

At the moment I have two PCs, one is about 2 years old and running Windows (http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/#) XP Pro SP2, the other is a brand new Dell which is running Windows XP Home SP2 (I think it is home but probably need to double check). Our broadband connection comes via NTL cable modem. Both PCs have an available network port to which an Ethernet cable could be connected. At the moment the cable modem connects directly to the older of the two PCs by Ethernet.

Again I await your sage advice.

Thanks

Dom

[SMHarman]

1. Switch off the PCs switch off the router (well pull the power out the back)
2. Plug router to CM, router to PC1 router to PC2 (make sure you get enough "straight" through (not crossover) patch cables.
3. Turn CM on wait until sync and rdy lights are stable
4. Turn router on wait until lights stabilise, the wan light should blink occasionally as network traffic on the ntl network talks to it.
5. Turn the PCs on.

Open explorer and it should bring up your home page.
No wireless security to configure, easy. Unless you are connected through a STB you do not need to clone the mac address.

Do you want to share files / printers etc between the two PC or just have both access the internet?

[Graham M]

1. Switch everything off
2. Unplug all Ethernet cables currently running
3. Plug Cable Modem Ethernet Directly into Router WAN Port
4. Connect each PC to the router's switch (doesnt matter wich port, 1&2 will do nicely)
5. Boot the cable mode, the router, then each of the PCs. Assuming everything is set up in the router already (most are) you should immediately have internet connectivity on each PC (some routers might need configuring, read the instruction manual for instructions on how to do this)


Meh, too slow :)

[domtheboy]

1. Switch off the PCs switch off the router (well pull the power out the back)
2. Plug router to CM, router to PC1 router to PC2 (make sure you get enough "straight" through (not crossover) patch cables.
3. Turn CM on wait until sync and rdy lights are stable
4. Turn router on wait until lights stabilise, the wan light should blink occasionally as network traffic on the ntl network talks to it.
5. Turn the PCs on.

Open explorer and it should bring up your home page.
No wireless security to configure, easy. Unless you are connected through a STB you do not need to clone the mac address.

Do you want to share files / printers etc between the two PC or just have both access the internet?

In answer to your question, I'd like to share files / printers etc as well as sharing the b/band connection. You've referred to a "STB", I don't think I understand what this means, could you elaborate ?

Thanks

Dom

[SMHarman]

Pictures from the knowledge base
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/article.php?a=39

Set top Box, but you have a plain ol cable mode right?

File and Printer Sharing.

In Control panel go into file and printer sharing make sure it is enabled. Make sure the workgroup name is the same on both PCs, make sure the PC name is different on both PCs.

Restart the PCs (for the renames to take effect)

Choose what you are sharing, right click on it and choose the sharing option, you can see the shared items in the network places or using explorer you can map them as network drives.

[domtheboy]

Ah, Set Top Box ! Right, well no I'm not using one of those, I'm just using the standard issue NTL cable modem (approx 1 year old). So this all sounds suspiciously straightforward ! LOL, we'll see if I can crack it after I've bought meself the router this evening.

Thanks again for all your help guys, you're the best !

Cheers

Dom :)

[Graham M]

Let us know how you get on.

[domtheboy]

Hi again chaps

Can any of you clarify something for me - my other half has been asking for some advice from one of her network engineers (she works for a telecoms company). They have recommended that we use a "switch" such as this one:

http://www.netgear.com/products/details/FS105.php

and this will be sufficient to sort out our network. Can anyone advise if this is correct or not ?

[Rik]

I strongly recommend 3Com Cable/DSL gateways or if your budget stretches to a 3Com VPN Firewall go for one of those

http://www.3com.com/prod/en_UK_EMEA/prodlist.jsp?tab=cat&cat=134482&subcat=134490

[domtheboy]

Bump...

[SMHarman]

Hi again chaps

Can any of you clarify something for me - my other half has been asking for some advice from one of her network engineers (she works for a telecoms company). They have recommended that we use a "switch" such as this one:

http://www.netgear.com/products/details/FS105.php

and this will be sufficient to sort out our network. Can anyone advise if this is correct or not ?
No it won't. This is just a switch. NTL only give you one IP address, a router will take this and share it between all the attached devices (using the magic of DCHP). The Routers suggested have a built in 4 port switch.

Now if you end up with more than 4 PCs at home, you will buy one of those and connect it to your router and connect the next 4 PCs to it. and so on until you get to 253 when you need a bigger router and subnets and a network engineer.

Get the linksys.

[domtheboy]

Right, so just to make sure I've understood correctly the difference between the router and the switch is that the router will share the 1 IP address, whereas the switch will not ?

Sounds like she is working with some shady engineers ! Either that or they are assuming that we already have a router of course. Right, thanks again.

[SMHarman]

Yep

Nope, just home networking results in a pile of corporate networking bits in a box. That box includes, firewall, NAT, DCHP server, Router and Switch.

[domtheboy]

Hi again

Right - just got back from my expedition to PC World - they didn't have the Linksys router I wanted originally, so I've ended up plumping for another Linksys, the BEFSR 41. Having read all the details I think it should work okay - I'm going to work on setting it up this evening so will let you know how I get on ;-)

Dom

[homealone]

Hi again

Right - just got back from my expedition to PC World - they didn't have the Linksys router I wanted originally, so I've ended up plumping for another Linksys, the BEFSR 41. Having read all the details I think it should work okay - I'm going to work on setting it up this evening so will let you know how I get on ;-)

Dom

I have one of those - it was a doddle to set up, it literally worked straight out of the box using the default settings.:)

[domtheboy]

Hi chaps !

Right, the router seems to be working fine, internet connection sharing set itself up immediately so an absolute doddle on that score.

Now comes the tricky part that I seem to have come unstuck on - actually setting up my home network ! We've run the network connection wizard on both of the PC's but not much seems to have happened, I can't see the other PC's details when looking in windows explorer for example.

Can anyone suggest where I may be going wrong ?

Thanks !

Dom

[Hom3r]

do the pc's have the network name if they don't they won't find each other

it should be under your network properties

[Tezcatlipoca]

Hi chaps !

Right, the router seems to be working fine, internet connection sharing set itself up immediately so an absolute doddle on that score.

Now comes the tricky part that I seem to have come unstuck on - actually setting up my home network ! We've run the network connection wizard on both of the PC's but not much seems to have happened, I can't see the other PC's details when looking in windows explorer for example.

Can anyone suggest where I may be going wrong ?

Thanks !

Dom


Have a look here for some info - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=16565 :)

[aliferste]

Why cant you use a crossover cable?

[Hom3r]

Why cant you use a crossover cable?

a cross over cable is used to connect two PCs with network card together directly.

[JohnHorb]

Why cant you use a crossover cable?
:shrug: For what?

[aliferste]

:shrug: For what?

When you use a router?

I have had to buy a router but I have a crossover cable (long story) can I use it until I get the other cable?

[Hom3r]

Sorry

a cross-over cable is used to transfer data etc when you don't have a router/BB

you cant use a cross over cable will a router.

i hope this will explain the basics

the cable is like say a 1.micophone and 2.speaker

if you try and speak down 1. the cross-over cable will send it to 2. so it can be heard. with out the cross-over cable 1. will try and talk to 1. and not be heard.

i hope this explains it clearly?

[Graham M]

Some (good) routers/switches automatically switch the Rx/Tx over if you plug a crossover cable in so it turns into a straight through.

[domtheboy]

Have a look here for some info - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=16565 :)

Hi Matt

The guide is very useful to a point but then I've got stuck. I'd managed to successfully follow all of the instructions up until the paragraph that begins, "Once you have checked the above your pc should be ready to share your files and printers."

Basically I followed the instructions in this paragraph but have been unable to create a folder on one PC that can then be viewed on the other. Any suggestions on where I can start analysing where I could be going wrong ?

Cheers

Dom

[SMHarman]

When you use a router?

I have had to buy a router but I have a crossover cable (long story) can I use it until I get the other cable?
Only to connect the router to a NTL CM. You cannout use the cable to connect a PC or other device to the router.
The CM will detect it is a cross over cable and un cross it (clever eh).

[quadplay]

The CM will detect it is a cross over cable and un cross it (clever eh).

As long as the modem is an ntl:home 120, or above! The others don't have autosensing capability.

[OldGeezer]

You cannout use the cable to connect a PC or other device to the router.

Many NICs and routers are autosensing these days.
You MAY not be able to use a x-over to connect a PC to a router.

[ian@huth]

Many NICs and routers are autosensing these days.
You MAY not be able to use a x-over to connect a PC to a router.They may be autosensing as far as duplex settings go but not many sense the cable type and adjust to take account of this. Autosensing of duplex setting isn't always done correctly and problems can exist if both devices are set to autosense.

[OldGeezer]

They may be autosensing as far as duplex settings go but not many sense the cable type and adjust to take account of this. Autosensing of duplex setting isn't always done correctly and problems can exist if both devices are set to autosense.

I'm surprised. Both my router and switch do - I didn't think they were anything special.

[greencreeper]

The guide is very useful to a point but then I've got stuck. I'd managed to successfully follow all of the instructions up until the paragraph that begins, "Once you have checked the above your pc should be ready to share your files and printers."

Basically I followed the instructions in this paragraph but have been unable to create a folder on one PC that can then be viewed on the other. Any suggestions on where I can start analysing where I could be going wrong ?

Both PCs have different names and the same workgroup? Have you shared the folder and given everyone full access?

[domtheboy]

Both PCs have different names and the same workgroup? Have you shared the folder and given everyone full access?

Hi greencreeper

I'm at work at the moment so don't have access to the PCs, and I did all the fiddling with the network on Friday evening so my memory is a bit hazy (have slept since then ;)). Nevertheless I'll try and give you a quick summary of where we've got up to so far:

* cable modem to router to PCs connection set up
* both PCs can access the net
* both PCs can pin one another successfully
* network connection wizard has been run on both PCs
* firewalls have been closed down on both PCs (both the windows firewalls and also the additional software ones we have on each one, mine being zone alarm, my g/f's being mcafee)
* both PCs have different names
* both PCs are in the MSHOME workgroup
* shared access has been applied to the C:\ drive of both PC's

If I remember anything else I'll post again - in the meantime if anyone has any suggestions please call 'em out !

Cheers guys

Dom

PS - Looks like our net connection speed is shortly to be boosted to 2MB - sweet :cool:

[SMHarman]

have you tried searching for the other pc on explorer,

Find PC

or in explorer typing \\mshome\the_pc_name\the_name_you_shared_c_as in the top bar
edit - hmm, it might just be
\\the_pc_name\the_name_you_shared_c_as in the top bar

Often the network exists and widows is a bit slow to catch on. Once it has found it and you have mapped network drives etc everything is peachy.

[domtheboy]

I'll give it a whirl tonight and let you know how I get on when I'm able to post from home (I don't know how to do a thumbs up smiley, but if I did it would be here).

Cheers again

Dom

[greencreeper]

You could try \\IP\sharename instead of \\pcname\sharename - if the IP works, that something is amiss with naming.

[domtheboy]

have you tried searching for the other pc on explorer,

Find PC

or in explorer typing \\mshome\the_pc_name\the_name_you_shared_c_as in the top bar
edit - hmm, it might just be
\\the_pc_name\the_name_you_shared_c_as in the top bar

Often the network exists and widows is a bit slow to catch on. Once it has found it and you have mapped network drives etc everything is peachy.

Well done fella, I tried this yesterday evening and lo and behold it worked ! Having tested it out I seem to be able to move files from one PC to another and vice versa, so it's a go-er ! Thanks very much for your help again, I might now start another thread concerning remote admin software over a home network, as I'm wondering about looking at using some software like PC Anywhere (more to gain experience in using it than for any specific reason really).

And once again thanks for all your helpful posts, you're a bunch of diamond geezers ! :dunce: :tu:

[SMHarman]

You could try \\IP\sharename instead of \\pcname\sharename - if the IP works, that something is amiss with naming.Didn't know you could do that, might mean I can find my iomega NAS drive on my W98 PC, the discover tool does not want to, ahem discover it, so

\\192.168.1.104\IomegaNAS7D5\ should work. A task for tonight.

[greencreeper]

Didn't know you could do that, might mean I can find my iomega NAS drive on my W98 PC, the discover tool does not want to, ahem discover it, so

\\192.168.1.104\IomegaNAS7D5\ should work. A task for tonight.
Yes you can :Yes:

I sometimes find that \\pcname doesn't work but \\ipaddress does. It's DNS/naming related - doesn't resolve name to IP correctly or at all. I encounter it quite often.

[SMHarman]

Yes you can :Yes:

I sometimes find that \\pcname doesn't work but \\ipaddress does. It's DNS/naming related - doesn't resolve name to IP correctly or at all. I encounter it quite often.
Wow - the NAS can now be seen from my W98 PC, that makes backup easier.

[greencreeper]

Wow - the NAS can now be seen from my W98 PC, that makes backup easier.
Good :D

[SMHarman]

Good :D
I've got to tart it about a bit before I can rep you for the second post sorting out my IT problems in as many days.

[greencreeper]

I've got to tart it about a bit before I can rep you for the second post sorting out my IT problems in as many days.
Ta for the reps.

It just shows how useful forums can be - in trying to help fix one problem, I accidentally fixed someone else's problem :D