View Full Version : Electrician Advice required
I have a new style fuse box, which has developed a rattle!! (It's the downstairs light cartridge) and the rattle is worse the more lights I have on!
The cartridge itself is tightly screwed in (Checked that first)
Relevant data from the cartridge:
Legrand = Make? B6
Some numbers on the left = model? 061 56
If I press on the cartridge the rattle stops
Can I just go buy one of these at B+Q or is it likely to be more serious?
What is making it move? :erm:
Raistlin
08-02-2005, 18:42
What is making it move? :erm:
Rampant electrical energy intent on escaping from the Sparky Dimension?
Seriously though, there must be something making it move. Unless it's a short of some sort and the arcing just sounds like a rattling?
Does it look like this
http://www.thefusecompany.com/images/LEGRAND%20AND%20TENBY-MCB.jpg
If I switch that cartridge off then the sound stops! - So if it is arcing then I think it's related to that switch I am still alive after trying to tighten it (not to be recommended especially when 16month old son chucks plastic block on tiled floor next to you!) - ************!
It will likely be one of the following problems
1 A loose connection
2 Faulty breaker
3 Overloaded circuit
Probably No. 2 at a wild guess
don't forget it can be against the law now to do some electrical work in the home unless your qualified.
its a new law that came into force in january of 2005
Raistlin
08-02-2005, 19:05
don't forget it can be against the law now to do some electrical work in the home unless your qualified.
its a new law that came into force in january of 2005
Good point but I would hope that simply replacing a circuit breaker wouldn't come under that particular law?
You could probably eliminate the breaker as a cause by swapping it with another one in the board that is of the same rating (do not put in one of a higher or lower rating though as you may compromise the safety of your installation).
If you try a different breaker and don't get the sound then it is probably worth changing the breaker as that should cure it.
Yesman:
Exactly like that picture albeit with the numbers as above
1. I don't think is loose as I've tried to tighten the screws
2. Possibly
3. Shouldn't be, I've not added to the circuit and the problem comes and goes, although the more lights I turn on the worse it gets!
Andy1 - Does changing the MCB count? - It's not like I am adding a new circuit or anything just like for like. I promise to switch the juice off before I start (thinks what'll happen to server!)
Raistlin
08-02-2005, 19:09
BTW, NO I am not a qualified electrician.
The advice I'm giving here is based on my own limited experience with electrical systems, household electrics/wiring, and general trouble-shooting.
I'm not gonna accept any liability in the event that you suddenly find yourself with curly hair!
:Yikes:
__________________
I promise to switch the juice off before I start (thinks what'll happen to server!)
Yep, make sure you isolate the entire board (by turning the main switch off) before you fiddle in any way shape or form.
Also probably a good idea to have somebody on standby with a broom handle just in case :D
andy1 - Does changing the MCB count? - It's not like I am adding a new circuit or anything just like for like. I promise to switch the juice off before I start (thinks what'll happen to server!)
sorry my friend i don't know,but if the mcb does just not plug in or out i'd say it could be covered by these rules but i'm not sure.
perhaps there is a qualified electrician on this site that could tell you.
andy
and don't forget its not just electric shocks that you can get,faulty wiring can cause fires.i think thats why the law as been changed regarding household electrics
TheBlueRaja
08-02-2005, 19:12
Have you tried jabbing at it with a fork?
(Dont!)
Yesman:
Exactly like that picture albeit with the numbers as above
1. I don't think is loose as I've tried to tighten the screws
2. Possibly
3. Shouldn't be, I've not added to the circuit and the problem comes and goes, although the more lights I turn on the worse it gets!
Andy1 - Does changing the MCB count? - It's not like I am adding a new circuit or anything just like for like. I promise to switch the juice off before I start (thinks what'll happen to server!)
Try replacing the breaker first.
Turn of the C/U before attemting this or get a sparky in to do the job,
Just as a matter of curiosity, how many lights are on that particular circuit ?
Try replacing the breaker first.
Turn of the C/U before attemting this or get a sparky in to do the job,
Just as a matter of curiosity, how many lights are on that particular circuit ?
Total lights = 14 Blubs as follows:
1 Lamp with 3 blubs in lounge
4 Lamps with 1 blub in kitchen
1 Lamp with 1 blub in utility (where cu is)
1 Exterior with 1 blub
1 Exterior with 1 blub (different to above!)
1 Lamp with 5 blubs in Dining Room (with Dimmer)
2 Lamps with 1 blub in Hallway
2 Lamps with 1 blub in Study
Rattle starts with the Hallway, Kitchen, Lounge, Study turned on and stops if I switch any one off!
paulyoung666
08-02-2005, 19:27
apologies if this has been covered already , turn off the board , there will be a main switch for this , get your torch , you do have one dont you :erm: , swap the dodgy mcb for another of the same rating and turn the power back on again , if the fault moves ' so to speak ' then there is your answer , if it doesnt then either call an electrician or ghostbusters :disturbd: , seriously , if you are not sure then please be careful , better to spend some money than spend some time in hospital or worse :erm: ;)
Total lights = 14 Blubs as follows:
1 Lamp with 3 blubs in lounge
4 Lamps with 1 blub in kitchen
1 Lamp with 1 blub in utility (where cu is)
1 Exterior with 1 blub
1 Exterior with 1 blub (different to above!)
1 Lamp with 5 blubs in Dining Room (with Dimmer)
2 Lamps with 1 blub in Hallway
2 Lamps with 1 blub in Study
Rattle starts with the Hallway, Kitchen, Lounge, Study turned on and stops if I switch any one off!
thats your problem , you have fitted blubs instead of bulbs :D :D , sorry i couldnt resist , i dont suppose you are local to me are you !!!!!!! :)
Total lights = 14 Blubs as follows:
1 Lamp with 3 blubs in lounge
4 Lamps with 1 blub in kitchen
1 Lamp with 1 blub in utility (where cu is)
1 Exterior with 1 blub
1 Exterior with 1 blub (different to above!)
1 Lamp with 5 blubs in Dining Room (with Dimmer)
2 Lamps with 1 blub in Hallway
2 Lamps with 1 blub in Study
Rattle starts with the Hallway, Kitchen, Lounge, Study turned on and stops if I switch any one off!
Well if all lights were on and are rated at 100 watts each you are slightly over the limit for a 6 amp breaker.
14 * 100 = 1400 / 230 = 6.09 Amps
It sounds like the breaker is worn out or maybe there is a slight fault.
To be on the safe side though I suggest you get the circuit checked out.
At an average of 100w per lamp you have +/- 6 amps on that circuit,
1 ) your problem could be overload, ( have you added anything lately ?? )
2 ) It could be a faulty breaker as stated previously
3 ) It could be the wired connection on the bus-bar behind the breaker carrier
To test # 3 switch off mains switch ( if confident ) and look at tightening the connection ( if confident )
Also as stated, section P applys to houshold electrics
HTH
__________________
Beaten to it by yesman, but yep, if in doubt get a competent electrician to look at it :tu:
EDIT: jumped in again with feet blazing, just looked at the pics again and realised that there is no wired connection behind the breaker, its on the breaker :dunce:
I can get the rattle with the blubs as above which totals 740w (approx 3.21 amps using the formula above)
I think I'll purchase a new breaker tomorrow and fit this
Thanks all
thats your problem , you have fitted blubs instead of bulbs :D :D , sorry i couldnt resist , i dont suppose you are local to me are you !!!!!!! :)
well spotted, don't want him crying over it do we.
paulyoung666
08-02-2005, 20:58
well spotted, don't want him crying over it do we.
no dammit we dont ;) :D :D :D
We use special bulbs as you call them up north, they are much wider than normal bulbs hence the blubs (blubber) - Cut and paste is ace!
Replace all blubs with compact flourescent that use a fraction of the power, then you won't blubber at the power consumption.
Replace all blubs with compact flourescent that use a fraction of the power, then you won't blubber at the power consumption.
Don't look to good in the lounge though! (nice idea)
Another quick idea, you could split the downstairs lightning circuit into two, thus splitting the load, depending on how many tails you have at the breaker and any spare ways in your consumer unit, but you will need a sparks for that, unless you know different ;)
hth
zoombini
09-02-2005, 09:10
Just so that you know, regarding the new law.
Yes you are allowed to replace parts of the system that have gone faulty.
However, you are supposed to advise your council of having done so unless.
Taken from The Building Regulations 2000 Part P (http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_029960.pdf)
Table 1: Work that need not be notified to building control bodies
Work consisting of:
Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses
Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (a)
Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (b)
Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (c)
Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (d) and consists of:
Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (e)
Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (e)
Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (f)
Notes
(a) On condition that the replacement cable has the same current carrying capacity, follows the same route and does not serve
more than one sub-circuit through a distribution board.
(b) If the circuitââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s protective measures are unaffected.
(c) If the circuitââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s protective measures and current-carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by increased thermal insulation.
(d) Special locations and installations are listed in Table 2.
(e) Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety
provisions are satisfactory.
(f) Such work shall comply with other applicable legislation, such as the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations.
Special locations and installations
(a) Locations containing a bath tub or shower basin
Swimming pools or paddling pools
Hot air saunas
Electric floor or ceiling heating systems
Garden lighting or power installations
Solar photovoltaic (PV) power supply systems
Small scale generators such as microCHP units
Extra-low voltage lighting installations, other than pre-assembled, CE-marked lighting sets
However I have seen someone elses interpretation that says
3. Replacement of accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses, but
excluding circuit protective devices.
Yet I do not know where that interpretation of part of the regs comes from as reading it I cannot see where.
It does NOT say that "you" cannot change it, it merely says that once done it reccomends that you get it checked by a competent electrician or notify your local council who may then inspect it (no doubt for a fee).
The new regs appears to say that you MUST be a qualified electrician to work on household electrics, until you actually read it & then it reads more like you "should" get it inspected/tested by a competent person afterwards or get your local council to inspect it.
__________________
So basically, although it is proberably best to get someone qualified, or maybe someone who is competent with electrical work to look at it if you feel confident enough to do it you can do, however you should follow the safety advice given.
Although B&Q may stock this sort of stuff, you may find it much cheaper at a local electrical wholesalers (I.E> newey & ayre/edmundsons/CEF etc).
Scarlett
09-02-2005, 09:44
However I have seen someone elses interpretation that says
3. Replacement of accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses, but excluding circuit protective devices.
I suspect that provided it is just the jumper, then that is fine. Effectivly it is a fuse that has an infinite number of 'bangs'.
I'm sure this is put in place due to things like electric cookers and electric showers. It is certainly going to include the replacement of fuseboxes.
gary_580
09-02-2005, 09:53
if your going to replace the breaker then you must be happy to remove it. Before going to get another one id firstly swap the upstairs light circuit breaker with the downstairs one. At least this will confirm if its either the breaker or the lighting circuit causing the probem.
if your going to replace the breaker then you must be happy to remove it. Before going to get another one id firstly swap the upstairs light circuit breaker with the downstairs one. At least this will confirm if its either the breaker or the lighting circuit causing the probem.
I thought of that then decided against it just in case I screw things up and end up with no lights! - I've now order one online so we'll see what happens.
Investigated other suppliers and yes they are cheaper than B+Q, problem is the installation differs by brand so I've order exactly what I have now.
We shall see when it arrives
Big thanks for all suggestions (except the Fork!)
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