View Full Version : Congestion charges?
Graham F
08-02-2005, 15:53
With London planning to extend their Congestion charge zone and other towns and cities looking at the idea. My question is..... do you think its right to have to pay to drive into town and city centres?
Nope. I understand why they've done it in London but I don't see why we should get charged to drive through when we still haven't got a reliable public transport system - there are still problems with delays / cancellations on the rail network and most buses these days are just plain knackered.
Once they get that sorted, then fair enough. Having said that, me and Mrs Nug are off to London next month, but we're going by train ('cos the hotel's about 200 yards from the nearest Tube station), so that's 5 quid they've lost already :D
EDIT: Just to clarify - I have no problems with congestion charges per se, but I feel that they should get the alternatives to taking your car everywhere sorted first :tu:. I've voted 'no' in the poll but, ideally, I should say 'Not at the moment'
I have put Yes, but I'd like to qualify that. The money generated should be ringfenced for use on improving public transport, or improving the roads (which should benefit public transport anyway)
No, No, No.
It's nothing more than another con and tax on motorists - as if we don't pay enough already. :afire:
Graham F
08-02-2005, 16:07
But hasn't it reduced traffic in central London by 15%?!? which surely was the aim of the scheme?!?
But hasn't it reduced traffic in central London by 15%?!? which surely was the aim of the scheme?!?Sorry but I think the aim was to make money. A reduction is just a side effect.
oooooh.....a whole 15%? :rolleyes: :D
STONEISLAND
08-02-2005, 16:11
If it reduces my car tax, I'm all for it as I never have to go into the town centre where I guess these charges will be.
If it reduces my car tax, I'm all for it as I never have to go into the town centre where I guess these charges will be.
:confused:
How would it reduce your car tax?
Graham F
08-02-2005, 16:16
Not really, the object for London was to make the centre of the city move, rather than the gridlock which it had, all the money made in London is being put back into public transport which is good :tu:
Not really, the object for London was to make the centre of the city move, rather than the gridlock which it had, all the money made in London is being put back into public transport which is good :tu:
That is a good thing, but I just think that they've done it the wrong way. The public transport system should have been improved first, and then impose the congestion charge - why should people leave their cars at home if they then can't guarantee that their bus or train is going to be on time (or, in some circumstances, even turn up at all)?
STONEISLAND
08-02-2005, 16:22
:confused:
How would it reduce your car tax?
fair enougth cannot answer that after much :confused: .
But surley it would improve roads etc.
Graham F
08-02-2005, 16:24
oooooh.....a whole 15%? :rolleyes: :D
:confused:
you don't think that is a very big reduction then? I think 15% is a big reduction :shrug:
fair enougth cannot answer that after much :confused: .
But surley it would improve roads etc.
Well, as Graham F said, the idea is for the money to go back into improving public transport, not sorting the roads out.
I s'pose that, technically, you may see an improvement in the roads because of the reduction of the traffic using them, but the charge isn't actually being levied to do this specifically :tu:
TheBlueRaja
08-02-2005, 16:28
Lets see - well, my wages are taxed at 22% or there abouts - my car is taxed at 180 odd quid a year, the petrol i use to drive around is taxed at something like 70% and now they want me to pay to drive through certain areas.
The swear filter prohibits me from telling them where they should go.
<snip>The swear filter prohibits me from telling them where they should go.
Not London then?
:p:
orangebird
08-02-2005, 16:32
I think it's a good thing. Why ANYONE would want to drive into central London/Manchester/Birmingham etc I'll never know. The public transport to actually get to these places may not be that good, so then you drive there. But in the city centres I found the transport to be fine - park up and save yourself a £5. :shrug:
Graham F
08-02-2005, 16:33
I think it's a good thing. Why ANYONE would want to drive into central London/Manchester/Birmingham etc I'll never know. The public transport to actually get to these places may not be that good, so then you drive there. But in the city centres I found the transport to be fine - park up and save yourself a £5. :shrug:
Park up - it will cost you more than £5 to park :p: :rofl:
orangebird
08-02-2005, 16:39
Park up - it will cost you more than £5 to park :p: :rofl:
Nah - drive to Hammersmith, park up in a resi street (no charge), and get on the tube!
Not London then?
:p:
I dunno. Certain members consider that a swear word..
Graham F
08-02-2005, 16:42
Nah - drive to Hammersmith, park up in a resi street (no charge), and get on the tube!
give Ken time, he will soon have Hammersmith as part of his extended zone ;)
give Ken time, he will soon have Hammersmith as part of his extended zone ;)
Give Ken time, and he'll soon have Sheffield as part of his extended zone :D
Doesn't extended zone sound rude?
TheBlueRaja
08-02-2005, 16:47
Im sorry, but what you dont understand is that London was a trial for most city centers, but most dont need it really, not by Londons standards anyway.
Even Edinburgh is talking about doing it - there's no bloody need - it can get busy but its nothing compared to down there.
Its a money generating scheme.
Just wait till they start to charge you to park outside your home, think im joking - been to Brighton and Hove recently... another 80 quid a year, on top of Council tax.
Oh and there expanding that too...
Just wait till they start to charge you to park outside your home, think im joking - been to Brighton and Hove recently... another 80 quid a year, on top of Council tax.
Been here in some parts of Leicester for 5 years, at the end of the day if its all you know then you take it as the norm.
Oh and you mentioned the high rates of tax, well you don't have to stay here, why not move to somewhere like Hungary or Portugal where tax is low? :)
etccarmageddon
08-02-2005, 18:07
the motorist is an easy target cos unlike Princess Andrew we do not have a viable alternative for long distance travel.
TheBlueRaja
08-02-2005, 18:16
Been here in some parts of Leicester for 5 years, at the end of the day if its all you know then you take it as the norm.
Oh and you mentioned the high rates of tax, well you don't have to stay here, why not move to somewhere like Hungary or Portugal where tax is low? :)
Family, friends, work, house, job.....
Other than that i'd move.
zoombini
09-02-2005, 09:18
all the money made in London is being put back into public transpor
I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that.
it sounds like just so much BS that we usually get when they use money making schemes.
Fair do I don't live in or near London any more, but has the public transport actually got better & has that better actually been as a result of "all" the money from this charge?
Has public transport got 15% better?
Graham F
09-02-2005, 09:39
I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that.
it sounds like just so much BS that we usually get when they use money making schemes.
Fair do I don't live in or near London any more, but has the public transport actually got better & has that better actually been as a result of "all" the money from this charge?
Has public transport got 15% better?
To be honest Ken Livingstone tends to do what he says. with regards to has it got 15% better, the billions they are investing in tube improvements. The new bendy buses, money is being invested, but you would not expect to see improvement straight away after years of under investment would you?!?
I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that.
it sounds like just so much BS that we usually get when they use money making schemes.
Fair do I don't live in or near London any more, but has the public transport actually got better & has that better actually been as a result of "all" the money from this charge?
Has public transport got 15% better?
In terms of buses, I would have to say that depends on where you are. Buses in and around Bromley and Croydon do seem to be more reliable and prompt. Buses around Lewisham seem to have got worse. Although that does seem to be largely due to a combination of cars going up Lewisham high street (which is supposed to be for deliveries, buses and pedestrians only now) and the way the traffic lights have been set up.
Trains have got a lot more reliable since the government fired Connex (although they did get to a point where around a third were turning up on time, if at all). South Eastern are taking delivery of new trains as well. So, trains are a *lot* better. Still far from perfect though.
I can't really comment about tubes as I don't use the tube regularly anymore (apart from the Docklands Light Railway which is counted as a Tube line and is absolutely brilliant), but TBH, I never really had major problems with the tube even when I did use it regularly. In my experience, apart from some major mishaps (Central line anyone) and strikes, parts of the tube have improved. Most notably the Northen Line.
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