100MB/Sec Service? [Archive]

ian@huth

31-01-2005, 10:03

"Fibre can carry up to one gigabit," he said. "It will be relatively straightforward for NTL to provide speeds of at least 100 megabytes per second across its entire network. By contrast, BT's planned 21st Century network will not be able to deliver speeds above 10 megabytes."

Although NTL will not reveal the timing of the launch of its 100-megabyte service, Monserrat said NTL customers could expect to be offered the service "in the not too distant future".

Wonder when the not too distant future is?

Some of the statements in the article don't add up though. The BT network can supply speeds of over 10Mb with bonding and ADSL2+. The bonus for NTL though is that their speeds are not distance related to the extent that BTs are.

Derek

31-01-2005, 10:05

Wonder when the not too distant future is?

It's "coming soon" ;)

etccarmageddon

31-01-2005, 10:08

I recon this will be a usage based service - ie. you pay for consumption rather than speed plus contention will mean that the speed will be eratic.

ian@huth

31-01-2005, 10:10

I recon this will be a usage based service - ie. you pay for consumption rather than speed plus contention will mean that the speed will be eratic.

To supply that sort of speed means a complete change in how broadband is delivered via cable and massive capital investment.

jtwn

31-01-2005, 10:28

I think its really good this is being mentioned...it would be amazing marketing against the adsl products available right now.

Hopefully just a few more years :)

Stuart

31-01-2005, 10:46

I can't see it being provided to residential customers anytime soon, as surely all the UBRs would need to be massively upgraded. Perhaps they are planning to replace the UBRs with standard 100 Mb switches and replace the current co-ax cable with twisted-pair cabling?

Having said that, I remember reading a couple of years back that a dutch company had built a system that enabled cable companies to cheaply upgrade their network to use Ethernet. Maybe NTL are rolling this out.

Neil

31-01-2005, 12:12

:LOL: 100MB/Sec over a network that can't even distribute basic Red Button Interactivity properly?!? :D

IanUK

31-01-2005, 12:22

It would be nice to get 3mb first !

I dread to think of the cap limit on 100mb either

Knowing NTL it will be raised from 40 gig a month to 50 gig..

LOL !

Derek

31-01-2005, 12:28

:LOL: 100MB/Sec over a network that can't even distribute basic Red Button Interactivity properly?!? :D

Hmmm, TV and Broadband are completely separate. Red Button events such as the Olympics and Wimbledon work fine on the majority of the network and have even been commented on as being faster than the sky apps.

But hey lets not let that get in the way of slagging NTL. :td:

Anyone else want to have an off-topic dig?

Stuart

31-01-2005, 12:35

Hmmm, TV and Broadband are completely separate. Red Button events such as the Olympics and Wimbledon work fine on the majority of the network and have even been commented on as being faster than the sky apps.

But hey lets not let that get in the way of slagging NTL. :td:

Anyone else want to have an off-topic dig?

I can honestly say, that since having the Samsung box installed, I have not had one single problem with interactive (apart from lack of content, but that's not NTL's fault).

Halcyon

31-01-2005, 13:26

I wont get my hopes up just as yet.
You have to give it another decade or so before NTL actually get there. :D

Millay

31-01-2005, 14:39

I cant see this being for anything other thann commercial apps. As this would be able to offer considerable cost savings compared to current services offering that speed. but still cost an absolute fortune, but if you have an ofice with 5000 + employees the cost saving could be great compared to multiple leased lines etc...

rdhw

31-01-2005, 16:26

Last September, NTL had 1.1m broadband customers, offered speeds of one to three megabytes, and BT had 960,000.It is clear that this author does not understand the difference between (a) a byte, (b) a bit, and (c) a bit per second.

lima

31-01-2005, 16:29

Never mind "upgrade UBRs" it would be nice to have our own UBR up here in Harrogate instead of being "patched" to Leeds via 17 miles of sticky backed plastic and a toilet roll...... ;) :D

Stuart

31-01-2005, 16:33

It is clear that this author does not understand the difference between (a) a byte, (b) a bit, and (c) a bit per second.

Not to mention the fact that NTL didn't (and still don't at the time of posting) have any 2 or 3Meg customers.

tomjleeds

31-01-2005, 17:04

Why bother? A 10Mbps/2Mbps service would be absolutely everything a home user could ever want in the near future IMO.

Derek

31-01-2005, 17:11

Why bother? A 10Mbps/2Mbps service would be absolutely everything a home user could ever want in the near future IMO.

640K ought to be enough for anybody.... :D

People will find a way to use whatever level of service they are able to get.

IanGuy

31-01-2005, 18:10

for some reason i think that should be 100 megabit not 100 megabyte :s?

IanUK

31-01-2005, 18:23

What realistically would be the top speed of the current network that NTL could sell to customers ?

would, for instance, 10 meg be possible ?

I'm just wondering what, if anything, NTL can do to match the inevitable increase's at other ISP's that will be prompted by UKonline's 8mb etc.

Not moaning, just wondering.

cheers

Ian

Earwig

31-01-2005, 18:39

Seems really exciting! !

Nice to see that it will apparently be aimed at the home user mostly as they talk about downloading films etc.....

I will sit and wait now to see what Ignition has to say about this......

Hopefully he will not say it is all pie in the sky and that it will be here by the summer!!!

But if nothing else at least he will be honest.....

W00T for NTL!!!! (At Last!!)

Rone

31-01-2005, 18:42

I'm really glad to see firms like ukonline offer 8meg, the only downside is can it be sustained? Whats the backbone like, and if everyone jumps on it, can it all cope?
I hope it can, but time will tell. My sons m8 sighned up and hes speedtested it everywhere and hes getting about 7.3. As he says a small drop doesnt really matter at that speed.
I'm sure it would cost a bit to get ntl up to 10 meg, but nothings impossible if you have the money coming in.
Its tough tho when no-one even fancies paying ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£25 to double their speed. ;)

Ignition

31-01-2005, 19:04

homealone

31-01-2005, 19:07

Oh I might as well join in the speculation ;)

does any one else wonder whether the mention of a 'metered broadband' service , later in the year, may have something to do with this?

- something along the lines of a 'pay as you go' service, where the tariff for any given bandwidth varied with the time of day & the actual 'speed' that you required.

Thus a customer could maintain an unmetered tariff, for 'normal' net use, but switch to a pay as you go for that 'must have' Linux distro, or whatever?

a little off topic, but there is similar thinking about using the engine management systems in cars to tailor their performance to the price paid

"It's cheaper for the car manufacturer's to give you the full, top-of-line, deluxe engine and cut it back a bit with software," says Martin Illsley, director of Accenture's research labs.

Instead of different models having different engines it would be the engine management software that determines how each vehicle performs.

Certainly, says Mr Illsley, car rental firms are interested in the idea of vehicles whose performance can be tailored to how much people pay.

Connect this engine management system up to a wireless communication system and with the swipe of a credit card you could turn your trundling rental into a rumbling roadster.

from this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4222357.stm

:)

- unfortunately anyone who does know more is unlikely to be able to divulge anything....

<edit> sorry - that wasn't meant as a reply to Ignitions post :)

Earwig

31-01-2005, 19:44

Not what I wanted to hear from you to!!!!!!

Now come on!!!!

Tell us when it is coming!!!!!........... :p: :D

In the summer you say??? :Yikes:

Ok I will just :disturbd: :p:

Neil

31-01-2005, 19:45

This product just ain't happening-end of. :nono:

Ignition

31-01-2005, 19:46

In the summer you say??? :Yikes:

Mebbe, just don't expect it to be summer 2005....

Tuftus

31-01-2005, 19:51

Mebbe, just don't expect it to be summer 2005....

PMSL :cool:

JohnHorb

31-01-2005, 19:58

This product just ain't happening-end of. :nono:

So, who IS Keith Monserrat, NTL Director of Policy? (or is it all a hoax?)

Derek

31-01-2005, 20:02

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/37/keith-monserrat-gets-ntl-comms-job

JohnHorb

31-01-2005, 20:11

:shrug: So, is the suggestion that he was misquoted, or just misunderstood?

Earwig

31-01-2005, 20:15

:shrug: So, is the suggestion that he was misquoted, or just misunderstood?

Neither......

People are trying to cover this up ! ! !

Mark my words 6 months down the line eveyone will have a 100M/bit line from NTL!!!

Believe what you want to beleive...... I know what I want to beleive!! ;)

Reality is sadly different though. As is usual, only time will tell. :p:

Bill C

31-01-2005, 20:37

Neither......

People are trying to cover this up ! ! !

Mark my words 6 months down the line eveyone will have a 100M/bit line from NTL!!!

Believe what you want to beleive...... I know what I want to beleive!! ;)

Reality is sadly different though. As is usual, only time will tell. :p:

Quick

Call Molder and Scully

The truth is out there :LOL: :D

Ignition

31-01-2005, 20:40

However it is comforting to know that at least Telewest aren't averse to a bit of exaggeration, nice bit of PR here using techy 'buzzwords', oldie but goodie:

We cannot however be certain of the service levels that users will experience on these services as no contention is mentioned: Our customers are not affected by contention ratios in the same way as ADSL products. A blueyonder broadband customer (regardless of whether they are 750K or 3Mb) shares their bandwidth with however many users there are in the street. But there is a sub-level network within each street (an RF network) and we re-segment that network every time a new customer joins, giving them the amount of bandwidth they are paying for (i.e. 750 or 3Mb). That segment of the network is unique to the customer and can't be 'hogged' or invaded by another customer, no matter how many there are on the street. We monitor this RF network daily to ensure there are enough segments of the sub-network for customers and, based on even the most optimistic forecasts for take up, we have plenty of bandwidth for the foreseeable future. Therefore our customers, although affected by general internet traffic like any surfer, don't experience the affects of contention. This is also how we are able to offer upgrades to our 1.5Mb and 3Mb services within literally a matter of minutes, as we send a hit to the local hub which increases the bandwidth segment for that customer. In terms of general quality of service the cable companies also have the unique advantage of owning both the ISP and the network, which means that we can monitor the end-to-end experience for our customers, unlike resellers of ADSL.
You seem to suggest that we have deliberately delayed the launch of faster services - as mentioned previously we launched 1Mb and 2Mb service well over a year ago and it has been a question of waiting for the market to mature enough to offer faster broadband services.

Bill C

31-01-2005, 20:45

However it is comforting to know that at least Telewest aren't averse to a bit of exaggeration, nice bit of PR here using techy 'buzzwords', oldie but goodie:

Oh come on, You are having us on. I have been assured on this board on many occasions that telewest never get it wrong :PP:

Ignition

31-01-2005, 20:51

Oh come on, You are having us on. I have been assured on this board on many occasions that telewest never get it wrong :PP:

Apparently not if they can segment not only taps but also each individual drop, how does the rest of the cable world cope with only being able to split fibre nodes?

Toto

31-01-2005, 20:52

However it is comforting to know that at least Telewest aren't averse to a bit of exaggeration, nice bit of PR here using techy 'buzzwords', oldie but goodie:

LOL, Telewest "Resegment" every time they get a new customer on a street!!!

<peterkay>

RE-SEG-MENT?

</peterkay>

Well spotted there Ignition, you old bloodhound :)

Bill C

31-01-2005, 20:52

Apparently not if they can segment not only taps but also each individual drop, how does the rest of the cable world cope with only being able to split fibre nodes?

I refer the Honourable Gentleman to post #35 :LOL:

Tristan

31-01-2005, 20:57

This product just ain't happening-end of. :nono:

Why has everybody missed the point here?

This is a *business* connection. The quote was in a *business* paper. No-one has suggested that a 100Mbit line would be available to home users any time soon.

A 100Mbit connection for a business is feasible. You can get leased lines faster than that now. It would require a fibre connection to the local cab, but for the price it would cost PA, it would be worth NTL's while to install one.

Ignition

31-01-2005, 20:58

<Techie> * Waits for the PR announcement Telewest have resegmented all subscriber's I and Q waves - BPSK for all </techie>

Sorry to the 99.9% of the board looking at that and going :dunce: massively geeky joke, must stop reading these books :(

Gareth

31-01-2005, 21:00

Oh I might as well join in the speculation ;)

does any one else wonder whether the mention of a 'metered broadband' service , later in the year, may have something to do with this?

- something along the lines of a 'pay as you go' service, where the tariff for any given bandwidth varied with the time of day & the actual 'speed' that you required.

Thus a customer could maintain an unmetered tariff, for 'normal' net use, but switch to a pay as you go for that 'must have' Linux distro, or whatever?

a little off topic, but there is similar thinking about using the engine management systems in cars to tailor their performance to the price paid

from this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4222357.stm

:)

- unfortunately anyone who does know more is unlikely to be able to divulge anything....

<edit> sorry - that wasn't meant as a reply to Ignitions post :)
Heh, I can't comment on this, but I can comment on the quote from Martin Illsley, as I used to work at Accenture in Sophia Antipolis too :D He's a very clever bloke, and is very insightful, so don't be surprised when wacky things he's predicted years before are all of a sudden commonplace. Five years ago, I doubted uCommerce would take off.... now I know better.

Oops, that was a bit :notopic: ...sorry 'bout that ;)

homealone

31-01-2005, 21:25

Heh, I can't comment on this, but I can comment on the quote from Martin Illsley, as I used to work at Accenture in Sophia Antipolis too :D He's a very clever bloke, and is very insightful, so don't be surprised when wacky things he's predicted years before are all of a sudden commonplace. Five years ago, I doubted uCommerce would take off.... now I know better.

Oops, that was a bit :notopic: ...sorry 'bout that ;)

I thought it was an interesting article, all round ;) - but it was intended to be just a touch ironic, as we already have this with broadband - with cable & DSL, the network effectively has to be up to the performance of the best tariff on offer. What subscribers get from that, is limited by the tariff they can afford to buy into.

- the allegory of car rental & a 'performance' rather than a 'mileage' based billing system seemed relevant ;)

Hans Gruber

31-01-2005, 21:55

Why has everybody missed the point here?

This is a *business* connection. The quote was in a *business* paper. No-one has suggested that a 100Mbit line would be available to home users any time soon.

The fact that it's in a business paper does not mean it (if it indeed ever will exist) is soley for business use.

Neil

01-02-2005, 08:16

Why has everybody missed the point here?
What do you think *is* the point m8?

This is a *business* connection. The quote was in a *business* paper. No-one has suggested that a 100Mbit line would be available to home users any time soon.
I disagree, the last but one paragraph suggests that it's far from a business connection...

Speeds are enough to provide basic video on demand now, but as well as watching downloaded videos, consumers may want to buy or hire several movies at a time and use interactive video services.
Now that doesn't sound like a business connection to me. :shrug:

A 100Mbit connection for a business is feasible. You can get leased lines faster than that now. It would require a fibre connection to the local cab, but for the price it would cost PA, it would be worth NTL's while to install one.
Agreed, but he is reffering to the new speeds being
20 times faster than anything available in the UK today. so do you think that ntl will be offering speeds of 20 times faster than what is available to business customers today? :erm:

No, I think he's referring to home users, & the section about downloading/hiring movies seals that for me.

Toto

01-02-2005, 08:27

I agree with Neil, I think the comments were about the network as a whole, and would therefore cover residential users as well as business.

Earwig

01-02-2005, 18:40

Yep they are for home users.

I was gonna post that but neil beat me to it.

Anyway I have rung NTL and they will be round a Week this friday to hook me up on my nice new 100M/bit line.

They sent me a letter a while ago stating that I would be testing this new technology for them and as such would get this service for free for the rest of my days with them.....

*Wakes up with a smile :angel: *

jrhnewark

03-02-2005, 05:39

This is just silly!

Come on - I have no figures for this, but nobody, but nobody builds a backbone for customers with 150k/600k/1024k... then 1mb/2mb/3mb - which surely would only just cope - and then expect 30mb/60mb/100mb from the same/very similar equipment... or if the network could handle us all going for it at 30mbps, then NTL have wasted a lot of money on 'the dearest' equipment - and don't tell me that years ago NTL were planning this...

Utter, utter crap. The whole report. The journo even shows basic flaws in his skills. :(

Neil

03-02-2005, 08:19

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/137/major-ntl-budget-cutbacks-threatens-service-for-customers

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=23494&page=1&pp=15

So-Talk me through this wonderful new 100 meg service......:rolleyes:

As I said earlier, it just ain't gonna happen, period.

The idiots running this shambles of a company do not have a clue, & they will continue to lower the standards of ntl until the bar reaches the ground & just can't get any lower.

Derek

03-02-2005, 08:24

The idiots running this shambles of a company do not have a clue, & they will continue to lower the standards of ntl until the bar reaches the ground & just can't get any lower.

The bar is already on the ground. They are getting the shovels out now. :mad:

Paul

03-02-2005, 09:37

As I said earlier, it just ain't gonna happen, period.
Sadly I am unable to argue against Neil on this - they seem to be completely losing the plot now. With the cutbacks announced it's hard to see how they will sustain the new 1,2 & 3M services, let alone anything faster.

Derek

03-02-2005, 09:46

Slightly :notopic: but.

I'm reliably informed this is how any fibre breaks will be handled from now on.

http://www.punchstock.com/image/imagestate/4808271/large/cs1832l.jpg

jrhnewark

03-02-2005, 17:10

I'm reliably informed this is how any fibre breaks will be handled from now on. What - they're actually going to bother to even do that?!

LOL! No, if I get one problem, I'm outta here, and I'm taking everybody that I can with me.

Of course, if these silly new speeds/dangerously low caps get introduced, I'm leaving anyway - I have no use for it.

Matrixis

07-02-2005, 05:16

This aint goona happen for residential customers. the cost to NTL would be astronomical. Their current CM only support up to 8Mbps, so this is as fast as we will go until NTL finds a hidden treasure chest.

So if you're hoping for even 10Mbps, keep on hoping

Derek

07-02-2005, 09:19

Tristan

07-02-2005, 10:56

The majority that are kicking about (Ntl branded ones) can actually handle up to 38Mbps.

http://www.ambitbroadband.com/broadband/U10C011.asp

As it is anything approaching 100Mpbs would involve fibre to the home and a whole new set of internal equipment.

Actually a lot of cable modems (and all non-Samsung set-top boxes) only have a 10Mbps ethernet port, which will be the bottleneck.

From a post on Digitalspy, it seems whoever this guy is at NTL has been quoted out of context. He was speaking at some government conference on the future of broadband in the UK, and he said that it was possible to do 100Mbps without further network builds. If DOCSIS 3 does what it promises, then this is true.

Some journalist saw this and turned it into "NTL plan 100 megabyte [!] service" -- which is clearly rubbish.

th'engineer

07-02-2005, 11:31

Sadly I am unable to argue against Neil on this - they seem to be completely losing the plot now.

Now then that is assuming they had the plot first as we know its not like NTL to know the plot

Ignition

07-02-2005, 11:39

The majority that are kicking about (Ntl branded ones) can actually handle up to 38Mbps.

http://www.ambitbroadband.com/broadband/U10C011.asp

Sorry Dezzo, the ntl Home modems up to the 200 at least can't do close to 38Mbps to a single user. They might be able tune a 38Mbps EuroDOCSIS RF downstream but they certainly couldn't supply anywhere near 38Mbps of IP throughput to their user.

Derek

07-02-2005, 12:19

Sorry Dezzo, the ntl Home modems up to the 200 at least can't do close to 38Mbps to a single user. They might be able tune a 38Mbps EuroDOCSIS RF downstream but they certainly couldn't supply anywhere near 38Mbps of IP throughput to their user.

Oh well another bit of Ntl training bites the dust :dunce:

Ignition

07-02-2005, 12:34

Oh well another bit of Ntl training bites the dust :dunce:

:LOL:

BBKing

07-02-2005, 13:45

I've had 20Mbps out of a Terayon and 10Mbps out of a Pace before, during testing. I'd doubt you'd get a full 38Mbps sustained out of an Ambit, but they're actually pretty good kit - stick them uncapped on a 256 QAM EuroDOCSIS downstream and I reckon you'd pull 30 Mbps sustained [puts it on to-do list].

Ignition

07-02-2005, 14:22

Reply in PM ;)

SMHarman

10-02-2005, 15:16

Stated my opinion but perhaps too harshly.

I think this is PR and nothing more, the story shows a serious lack of technical knowledge on the part of at least the editor and shows no idea of the technical challenges to accomplish this. To describe it as straight forward is absurd, it'd be both complicated and expensive to accomplish...

Especially when you consider that IMHO nowhere near enough is being spent on the network now to maintain quality of service, and this same network is still waiting to be used at 3Mbit, months after the announcement.

Media hype from an editor without a clue, and questionable information from a man who seems suspiciously like glorified PR. 'Policy director'. Perlease!

By the way, the UK will have 1Gbps internet. Coming in the 'not too distant future'. Also accurate, as WTF does 'not too distant future' mean?
IMHO The point of the article PR or nothing more is that NTL have a network with fibre to within 500 metres of home (or from another thread about 200m tops).
For NTL / TW to do FTTH would mean repulling etc the last stretch. BT's network on the other hand is copper pair to the home and the final stretch could be many km. For BT to go FTTH would take longer cost more etc.
I'm sure by the end of this decade this will be nearer reality than speculation but for now the copper can do the job for the nearterm, the analogue switchoff will give even more bandwidth.
Its corporate penis measuring.