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Escapee
03-01-2005, 14:25
I have a relative who's now late 40's early 50's and he emigrated about 18 years ago to South America. Anyway the background was he was in his local pub one night about 20 years ago when two young South American female students with all their baggage arrived looking for accomodation after a let down/mix up, where they were supposed to be staying.

As he only had a one bedroom flat with a four poster bed, he offered hiis services straight away. (he used to be my idol) the two females took the offer and moved in with him. He ended up emigrating to South America with one of them and getting married, this proved to be a successful marraige as far as I am aware with a few offsprings. Recently though things have taken a turn for the worse and he has found himself on his own lonely with very little money, as he felt homesick he decided on the spur of the moment to come back home to Wales.

He went along to the local council and benefit office to try and get a roof over his head, he wasn't fussy anything would do. I don't have any sympathy because I believ you make your own bed and lie in it, but he was told "Sorry, we will not give you any help you are not entitled to anything. We have registered your claim you will have to come back in 6 months"
He asked how he was supposed to live, as he had worked all his life and didn't intend sponging off the state he just needed a bit of a hand to get on his feet. They said "get a job, and come back in 6 months time"
He is now labouring on a building site in London, and in a bed sit until he can find a job in Wales.

As I said, I have little sympathy even though he is a relative. but it does go to show, how anyone emigrating should pray all goes to plan. If you come back to this country skint you will find yourself in a que behind all the foreigners who were not born here or have never paid a penny into the system! :mad:

gooner4life
03-01-2005, 14:38
Cant he go and marry t'other one now? either way I bet that night long ago was worth it 2 Latin American students :drools: :hehe:

Bifta
03-01-2005, 14:41
If you emmigrate it's got bugger all to do with the state, it's your own choice so why should they fund you if you decide to come back? As I recall, many years ago long before the influx of 'foreigners' that we see today the rules were still the same, you leave your job, tough! Asylum seekers generally flee their own country to escape potential torture or death and imo deserve some kind of aid to get them on their feet.

MovedGoalPosts
03-01-2005, 14:45
It is a difficult one, but Bifta is right, he is effectively an economic migrant not an asylum seeker (even though the latter appears to be somewhat abused in recent years, but that is another thread). He may have paid into the system with earnings, but for the last 20 years that wasn't this country's system. He may in fact have been better off with whatever welfare is offerred in South America (don't know anything about that). This does however go to show that we must all make provision for a rainy day, if at all possible.

ikthius
03-01-2005, 14:45
you mentioned that he had made his bed and must lie in it, now he is making another bed or changing the sheets so to speak.

he is trying to get on with his life.

ik

aliferste
03-01-2005, 14:57
Got to agree with previous posts. Dont know why you are bringing asylum seekers in to it. These days they seem to get brought in to everything woe that people have though. As he is now an economic migrant if they gave him a house and cash Im pretty sure you would be moaning about that as well.

Why dont you put him up.......blood is thicker than water and all that!!

Escapee
03-01-2005, 15:08
Got to agree with previous posts. Dont know why you are bringing asylum seekers in to it. These days they seem to get brought in to everything woe that people have though. As he is now an economic migrant if they gave him a house and cash Im pretty sure you would be moaning about that as well.

Why dont you put him up.......blood is thicker than water and all that!!

As I stated in my post "I have no sympathy" Although I understand he has had bit of a tough time recently and that was the main reson he decided to come back.

As he is part of a large family (one of 11 children) there is no problem getting a roof over his head, unfortunately he had to take the first job he could find and that was in London.

I thought that being still a UK citizen, as he still holds a UK passport, he would of at least been entitled to sheltered accomodation ie: a bed when he turned up here.

Apparently that not so according to our local authority, In his own words his best chance would of been to throw a brick through the window of the police station! :D

Edit: spelling mistakes(some of them)

Bifta
03-01-2005, 15:16
I thought that being still a UK citizen, as he still holds a UK passport, he would of at least been entitled to sheltered accomodation ie: a bed when he turned up here.

So for nearly 20 years he pays absolutely nothing towards this country and you think he's entitled to some form of social welfare when he get's back?

aliferste
03-01-2005, 16:28
I thought that being still a UK citizen, as he still holds a UK passport, he would of at least been entitled to sheltered accomodation ie: a bed when he turned up here.



Ahhhh, so he is still a UK citizen? Sorry bout that, I thought you meant he had given up his citizenship.
I would have thought he would be entitled to some form of housing as he is/was "technically" homeless.
Anyway, he has a job and somewhere to live so everything is ok. Whereas someone seeking asylum cannot look for a job and has to take what housing is given to them.....usually in the worst estates (which they are gratefull for) :)

Escapee
03-01-2005, 16:56
So for nearly 20 years he pays absolutely nothing towards this country and you think he's entitled to some form of social welfare when he get's back?

Oh, dont think I agree that he should be given anything. As I said he made his choice to leave!

All I was doing was relating the story, although the only thing I can say in his defence was from the age of leaving school at 16 to the time in his early-mid thirties he worked without ever claiming benefits. I can only think of one non-genuine scrounger in our family who doesn't work through choice.

I would of thought most regulars around here would by know I disagree with scroungers, no matter what country, colour or race...I dont even like a scrounger if they are a family member.

Escapee
03-01-2005, 17:01
Ahhhh, so he is still a UK citizen? Sorry bout that, I thought you meant he had given up his citizenship.
I would have thought he would be entitled to some form of housing as he is/was "technically" homeless.
Anyway, he has a job and somewhere to live so everything is ok. Whereas someone seeking asylum cannot look for a job and has to take what housing is given to them.....usually in the worst estates (which they are gratefull for) :)

Thats what I was getting at about housing, he arrived here without letting anyone know he was coming and I think it was a mixture of being embaressed and not wanting to impose himself on family members. He would of been happy being placed in a bedsit, but the council and benefits office would not help for six months. So I guess he would also of been happy to accept a house on the worst estate until he could find a job and move into rented accomodation elsewhere.

I just thought the council wouldn't throw you out on the street like that if you were homeless and technically a UK citizen.

murfitUK
03-01-2005, 17:30
He needs to find out why he has been refused help. From what I've read, the council and benefits agency are probably trying to say that he is not "habitually resident" in the UK.

It is a condition that all applicants for housing must be habitually resident and have a right to reside. The substantive legislation for this changed in May 2004 when the 10 new countries joined the EU.

A UK citizen has a right to reside in the UK, but still has to be habitually resident. I would agree that he is no longer habitually resident given the length of time he has been out of the country. However, there is one category of applicant that is automatically habitually resident - someone who returns to the UK to resume a previous period of habitual residence. If he was habitually resident before he left all those years ago, then he is returning to resume the period of HR. This means he is eligible.

He should get the council's decision in writing and then challenge them that they have misinterpreted the rules for habitual residence.

On the other hand, the council might be saying that he is habitually resident (eligible) but does not have a priority need for accommodation. That is a different matter! (Your are in priority need if you: are pregnant, have dependent children, have serious illness/disability, considered to be vulnerable etc).

Or maybe they accept he is eligible, in priority need, but has become homeless intentionally for giving up accommodation without securing suitable alternative accommodation and it was reasonable to expect him to have remained in that accommodation.

Them's the rules - whatever your views about people coming into the country and claiming welfare assistance.

How sad am I? It's a Bank Holiday. I have a day off. Yet I am talking about work.

Escapee
03-01-2005, 17:41
He needs to find out why he has been refused help. From what I've read, the council and benefits agency are probably trying to say that he is not "habitually resident" in the UK.

It is a condition that all applicants for housing must be habitually resident and have a right to reside. The substantive legislation for this changed in May 2004 when the 10 new countries joined the EU.

A UK citizen has a right to reside in the UK, but still has to be habitually resident. I would agree that he is no longer habitually resident given the length of time he has been out of the country. However, there is one category of applicant that is automatically habitually resident - someone who returns to the UK to resume a previous period of habitual residence. If he was habitually resident before he left all those years ago, then he is returning to resume the period of HR. This means he is eligible.

He should get the council's decision in writing and then challenge them that they have misinterpreted the rules for habitual residence.

On the other hand, the council might be saying that he is habitually resident (eligible) but does not have a priority need for accommodation. That is a different matter! (Your are in priority need if you: are pregnant, have dependent children, have serious illness/disability, considered to be vulnerable etc).

Or maybe they accept he is eligible, in priority need, but has become homeless intentionally for giving up accommodation without securing suitable alternative accommodation and it was reasonable to expect him to have remained in that accommodation.

Them's the rules - whatever your views about people coming into the country and claiming welfare assistance.

How sad am I? It's a Bank Holiday. I have a day off. Yet I am talking about work.

Thanks for that info, I will pass it on. He was born and lived in this country fro about 30 years before he emigrated. I guess he needs to clear up the reason why the council refused help.

Bifta
03-01-2005, 17:41
I just thought the council wouldn't throw you out on the street like that if you were homeless and technically a UK citizen.

Have the council thrown him out or has he made himself (as mentioned a post up) intentionally homeless? The whole point is .. it's his own fault, not the councils, not the benefits agencies and not the governments.

Escapee
03-01-2005, 17:49
Have the council thrown him out or has he made himself (as mentioned a post up) intentionally homeless? The whole point is .. it's his own fault, not the councils, not the benefits agencies and not the governments.

The council have refused to help, saying he needs to come back to them in 6 months time. I cant go into his peronal details about why he left South America here, but it was difficult for him to stay. (no, he didn't commit any crimes) after his wife filed for divorce.

As I said, I'm not altering my views because he is a family member, I just found it strange that someone with a UK passport is told to go away and get a job then come back in six months. If I was in that situation coming back into this country but without much money it would be now I would need a hand and not in six months time, because I would at least be working and living in rented accomodation by then.

Bifta
03-01-2005, 17:52
The council have refused to help, saying he needs to come back to them in 6 months time. I cant go into his peronal details about why he left South America here, but it was difficult for him to stay. (no, he didn't commit any crimes) after his wife filed for divorce.

As I said, I'm not altering my views because he is a family member, I just found it strange that someone with a UK passport is told to go away and get a job then come back in six months. If I was in that situation coming back into this country but without much money it would be now I would need a hand and not in six months time, because I would at least be working and living in rented accomodation by then.

From what I can see he's made himself intentionally homeless, regardless of the situation in South America it's nothing to do with the council, as I said, it's his fault, you wouldn't expect to leave your home tomorrow and have your local council to put you up somewhere .. why should they?

punky
03-01-2005, 18:18
I learnt a long while ago in this country, you can pay all your taxes and dues all your life, but can't possibly expect to get anything back, should you need it.

Regardless wether this man moved or not, he is a UK citizen. He has a right in this country to get support when he needs it, and the goverment are duty bound to help him.

Bifta
03-01-2005, 18:20
I learnt a long while ago in this country, you can pay all your taxes and dues all your life, but can't possibly expect to get anything back, should you need it.

Regardless wether this man moved or not, he is a UK citizen. He has a right in this country to get support when he needs it, and the goverment are duty bound to help him.

Why are they duty bound to help in a situation he caused? You can't help everyone, there aren't enough funds so you help out the most deserving cases, of which .. he isn't one.

Escapee
03-01-2005, 18:21
From what I can see he's made himself intentionally homeless, regardless of the situation in South America it's nothing to do with the council, as I said, it's his fault, you wouldn't expect to leave your home tomorrow and have your local council to put you up somewhere .. why should they?

He is homeless but not intentionally, he found himself without a home in South America due to the family break down. The only intentional part is ending up homeless here instead of staying homeless in South America.

As I said, he came back quietly because he was a bit embarassed about the situation.

Short side note:
The council does put people up who leave there homes, thats exactly why they are building the development in my street. It's to house 16-25 year olds who have left home and made themselves homeless, then after 30 days they are given permanent accomodation.

punky
03-01-2005, 18:31
Why are they duty bound to help in a situation he caused? You can't help everyone, there aren't enough funds so you help out the most deserving cases, of which .. he isn't one.

You make it sound like he has commited some heinous crime. Sorry I didn't know once you left the country you are not allowed help when you come back.

Incidently, do you drink or smoke? If you got lung cancer, liver disease, as you are the direct cause of your condition, that you should get no medical help?

He sounds to me to be far more deserving than some I know that the government support.

I hardly think the punishment fits the crime here.

Bifta
03-01-2005, 18:42
You make it sound like he has commited some heinous crime. Sorry I didn't know once you left the country you are not allowed help when you come back.

Incidently, do you drink or smoke? If you got lung cancer, liver disease, as you are the direct cause of your condition, that you should get no medical help?

He sounds to me to be far more deserving than some I know that the government support.

I hardly think the punishment fits the crime here.

No, I don't make it sound like he's committed any crime, grow up ffs. I said the problem he's in is his own doing.

Yes I smoke and yes I pay far FAR more taxes on my cigarette purchases than people who don't smoke, not that it matters as I pay for private health insurance so should I require any treatment for smoking related diseases .. I won't be relying on the NHS. I rarely drink, perhaps once a month so I don't envisage any problems there.

As for punishment .. no-one is punishing him he's done that himself, he should have used his brain and actually found out before leaving his country of residence what he would or wouldn't be entitled to.

Escapee
03-01-2005, 18:59
No, I don't make it sound like he's committed any crime, grow up ffs. I said the problem he's in is his own doing.

Yes I smoke and yes I pay far FAR more taxes on my cigarette purchases than people who don't smoke, not that it matters as I pay for private health insurance so should I require any treatment for smoking related diseases .. I won't be relying on the NHS. I rarely drink, perhaps once a month so I don't envisage any problems there.

As for punishment .. no-one is punishing him he's done that himself, he should have used his brain and actually found out before leaving his country of residence what he would or wouldn't be entitled to.

I didn't think private health care covered smoking related illness?

Bifta
03-01-2005, 19:02
I didn't think private health care covered smoking related illness?

My health insurance covers illnesses that can be caused by smoking, whether they were actually caused by smoking is irrelevant.

timewarrior2001
03-01-2005, 19:06
As I stated in my post "I have no sympathy" Although I understand he has had bit of a tough time recently and that was the main reson he decided to come back.

As he is part of a large family (one of 11 children) there is no problem getting a roof over his head, unfortunately he had to take the first job he could find and that was in London.

I thought that being still a UK citizen, as he still holds a UK passport, he would of at least been entitled to sheltered accomodation ie: a bed when he turned up here.

Apparently that not so according to our local authority, In his own words his best chance would of been to throw a brick through the window of the police station! :D

Edit: spelling mistakes(some of them)

Thats what happens to single men these days, had he been a woman with 5 kids all by different fathers, he would be given a decent house.
Never mind that that was partly their choice, however they get the better part of the deal.
I reckon that if as an economic migrant he gets sweet FA, however had he stayed in south America with its lack of benefit system, he may have starved to death, surely that would then make him an asylum seeker/in need of help and a hand in getting back on his own two feet off his own country?
Whilst I also have no sympathy for him, since when has it been in the best interests of this country to help others before its own? when has it been morally right to tell someone tough, whilst handing out the cash to the next person in the line?

Charlie_Bubble
03-01-2005, 19:06
Why are they duty bound to help in a situation he caused? You can't help everyone, there aren't enough funds so you help out the most deserving cases, of which .. he isn't one.

Is he any more or less deserving than the many young girls who churn out babies from the age of 16 and get themselves a nice council house/benefits without ever paying into the social pot?

ikthius
03-01-2005, 19:07
this is getting out of hand.

Bifta, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this.

I think he is here because he was in a country for a marraige, which broke down, he may have wanted to come back, and get a bit of help, but so far he is doing good as far as I have read.

I think that he has just as much right to get help in his country of birth as any one not of this country getting hand outs.

Now this country tried to step in to save a women who got shot in iraq, she was british, but wanted to stay in iraq, why should we help, she has not paid any taxes to this country for a while.

I think this country should help their citizens in need, anyone who is in need. it is another thing people leaving their homes at 16-30 because they just want to run away, the guy is getting on with his life, I haven't read that he is complaining.

ik
p.s. it is kind of gettting off topic and getting personal

aliferste
03-01-2005, 19:55
Thats what happens to single men these days, had he been a woman with 5 kids all by different fathers, he would be given a decent house.
Never mind that that was partly their choice, however they get the better part of the deal.
I reckon that if as an economic migrant he gets sweet FA, however had he stayed in south America with its lack of benefit system, he may have starved to death,

He is not any kind of migrant......the only kind of migrant he is was when he where he imigrated to south America and then he was an economoc migrant (the ones everyone moans about coming here)
He is not an asylum seeker or ever could be as he is allowed to stay here and look for work etc.

The type of situation he is in is the same as if one of you chucked in your job one day and moved out your home....turned up at the benefits office and said house me and give me money.

aliferste
03-01-2005, 19:57
Is he any more or less deserving than the many young girls who churn out babies from the age of 16 and get themselves a nice council house/benefits without ever paying into the social pot?

I think that is down to a lack of education rather than a kid actually intentionally getting pregnant.

aliferste
03-01-2005, 19:58
He sounds to me to be far more deserving than some I know that the government support.

.


Like who?

timewarrior2001
03-01-2005, 19:58
He is not any kind of migrant......the only kind of migrant he is was when he where he imigrated to south America and then he was an economoc migrant (the ones everyone moans about coming here)
He is not an asylum seeker or ever could be as he is allowed to stay here and look for work etc.

The type of situation he is in is the same as if one of you chucked in your job one day and moved out your home....turned up at the benefits office and said house me and give me money.

Thats not strictly true though is it? I mean, if he cant support himself in South america what is he supposed to do? Therefor, he has migrated back to the UK. He's in as much need as anyone else arriving here from foreign shores, the difference and ONLY difference is that this guy is British by birth.

Escapee
03-01-2005, 20:11
I think that is down to a lack of education rather than a kid actually intentionally getting pregnant.

Well during the 80's when I was a teenager that certainly went on in very large numbers. I had one girl take me to court for maintenance and I had to pay a lot of money to prove my innocence, because as far as the court was concerned i was guilty because the girl said so!

I just cant understand the situation where they have said he can come back in 6 months and claim benefits, as I said in six months time it's very unlikely he would need benefits. He will either be back on his feet or dead through starvation :rolleyes:

As I said, I have very little sympathy for anyone looking for a handout even if they are family. but I do think there is a difference where someone who can potentially support themselves and has paid about 15 years of tax into the system here needing a helping hand, compared to someone who is looking to long term skive.

I would be very suprised if he was looking for anything other than some short term help to get himself working in South Wales and paying his own way. I expect he is not an unemployment statistic either, so no doubt the job centre couldn't give a s**t about helping. :shocked:

aliferste
03-01-2005, 20:34
Thats not strictly true though is it? I mean, if he cant support himself in South america what is he supposed to do? Therefor, he has migrated back to the UK. He's in as much need as anyone else arriving here from foreign shores, the difference and ONLY difference is that this guy is British by birth.


Actually it is true....to repeat myself: The type of situation he is in is the same as if one of you chucked in your job one day and moved out your home....turned up at the benefits office and said house me and give me money.

Anyone with a bit of sense would know that you dont give up a job and move somewhere expecting to get a home.

If it was a serious situation and he had nowhere to live and nothing to actually live on then he would have been treated as anyone other uk citizen in that situation. He would have been put in a hostel for the homeless.

aliferste
03-01-2005, 20:38
Well during the 80's when I was a teenager that certainly went on in very large numbers. I had one girl take me to court for maintenance and I had to pay a lot of money to prove my innocence, because as far as the court was concerned i was guilty because the girl said so!



Did you sleep with her?
The fact is she probably had many partners and did not use any contraception so did not know who the father was. Lack of education!

What has that got to do with thinking young lassies get pregnant on purpose to get benefits and houses?

Escapee
03-01-2005, 20:43
Did you sleep with her?
The fact is she probably had many partners and did not use any contraception so did not know who the father was. Lack of education!

What has that got to do with thinking young lassies get pregnant on purpose to get benefits and houses?

I think you are making an assumption there, she wanted me to be the father because I had a job! She was over the moon because she got a council flat straight away, and then kept chipping away until she got a house. She boasted about it openly.

She has spent the last 17 years telling the girl I am the father, despite having DNA evidence 14 years ago. It's all about money you see!

I had to put the girl right with a copy of the DNA test a few months ago when I bumped into her coming out of my local pub.

EDIT: I guess it's now a bit embarassing now she's older, she couldn't admit to her daughter she only wanted her as a meal ticket to get a house could she.

aliferste
03-01-2005, 21:13
Um, I dont think it really matters who the father is to have a home for a young single mum and her baby.

Where does the money come in to it? did you ever give her any? sounds like no.........so how did she benefit telling her daughter that you were the father?

punky
03-01-2005, 21:31
Like who?

Well the ones that I were referring to are a group of loosely conencted familes (like 4 or 5) in Leyton/Leytonstone (can't remember which one), that are systematically milking the state. They have books on how to do it and everything. Since they they are doing anything terribly illegal (just abusing loopholes, etc), everyone just has to sit around and watch them do it.

Escapee
03-01-2005, 21:35
Um, I dont think it really matters who the father is to have a home for a young single mum and her baby.

Where does the money come in to it? did you ever give her any? sounds like no.........so how did she benefit telling her daughter that you were the father?

Because she of course wanted an out of court settlement, even went around saying I bribed the doctors and the judge when I told some of her friends about the outcome. She initially told me I wasn't the father and then went to court for maintenance when the child was about 2 years old. To make matters very silly, had I been the father she would of been pregnant for 11 months!!!!!!

The bottom line is she got pregnant for a house, that was her own admission, she then wanted me to be the father because the other guy who probably was the father was a bit of a lazy drop out. She told everyone I was the father and lied to her daughter for over 17 years until I showed the daughter the DNA results.

She is now in a situation where the daughter is aware her mother got pregnant to get a council house, it does happen and did happen a lot back in the 80's in this area. I know the daughter smashed the house up and left home after finding out the truth, about how her mother had told her those lies for 17 years and told her that I was her father and didn't want to bother with her.

Funny how the woman can be right in court without any evidence, but if the man denies being the father without a DNA test he can be in serious trouble if it's proved he is. Also wonderfull how our excellent legal aid system stood up for her and made me pay for the tests, then wiped their hands when they were proved wrong.
It certainly doesn't pay to be honest in this country. :mad:

PS: My solicitor had to argue my case strongly for a DNA test, as he had to seek permission from the magistrates and the girl for tests. the magistrate said to me "What !! You are contesting it"
They were not happy to allow the DNA test and I also noted that our wonderfull legal aid system were so keen to represent her in court but soon wiped their hands clean of any compensation to pay for the DNA tests, solicitors and doctors fees.

It doesn't pay to be the honest one in court in this country! :mad:

timewarrior2001
03-01-2005, 21:43
Actually it is true....to repeat myself: The type of situation he is in is the same as if one of you chucked in your job one day and moved out your home....turned up at the benefits office and said house me and give me money.

Anyone with a bit of sense would know that you dont give up a job and move somewhere expecting to get a home.

If it was a serious situation and he had nowhere to live and nothing to actually live on then he would have been treated as anyone other uk citizen in that situation. He would have been put in a hostel for the homeless.

Ok, he has fallen on hard times, probably/could mean, he has no job, so he hasnt given up his job. Now as far as I understand it, in South America No job means no money, no money means no food, no food means death.

Mr joe blogs from Iraq, went up against Mr hussain, he now fears for his life, so he gives up his job, his house and flees to the UK, because if Mr hussain catches him he will be dead.

Wheres the difference? I mean to say, when they arrive in the UK they have both given up a job and a house, and are both expecting the UK to help them, why should the Iraqi receive help when a british citizen doesnt?
Or does the fact he was born and lived in another country mean he should be given preferential treatment?

Bifta
03-01-2005, 22:44
in South America No job means no money, no money means no food, no food means death.

So, just out of curiosity, please tell everyone exactly which countries in South America don't have any kind of social welfare system.

aliferste
03-01-2005, 23:03
Ok, he has fallen on hard times, probably/could mean, he has no job, so he hasnt given up his job. Now as far as I understand it, in South America No job means no money, no money means no food, no food means death.

Mr joe blogs from Iraq, went up against Mr hussain, he now fears for his life, so he gives up his job, his house and flees to the UK, because if Mr hussain catches him he will be dead.

Wheres the difference?

Are you kidding me on......where is the difference?? One is a life choice when you want to go home to your country of birth (i see he didnt give up citizenship just in case) as it is a safety net. The other is a nessesity where you are fleeing for your life.

aliferste
03-01-2005, 23:06
why should the Iraqi receive help when a british citizen doesnt?


And anyway, he would have been given help. If he was homeless he could have went to a hostel. As it was he must have had a roof over his head.

Charlie_Bubble
03-01-2005, 23:08
I think that is down to a lack of education rather than a kid actually intentionally getting pregnant.

I was asking if he is any more or less deserving than one of them. I was not asking why they did it. Is someone who pays tax/NI for 10-15 years, then leaves the country for 20 years, more or less worthy of government money if they return, than someone who leaves school having paid nothing and landing in a house with full benefits?

Many of them may get themselves in that situation through stupidity, but I'm sure there are many who do it, because they know they will be taken care of,

Bifta
03-01-2005, 23:13
Many of them may get themselves in that situation through stupidity, but I'm sure there are many who do it, because they know they will be taken care of,

Well, at least they had the forsight to actually find out what they'd be entitled to in that situation, something yon feller didn't bother to do.

aliferste
03-01-2005, 23:27
Well, at least they had the forsight to actually find out what they'd be entitled to in that situation, something yon feller didn't bother to do.

:)

Escapee
04-01-2005, 08:44
Well, at least they had the forsight to actually find out what they'd be entitled to in that situation, something yon feller didn't bother to do.

As I said from the very first post in this thread, I have no sympathy for the guy because he set his own course as far as I'm concerned.

It is interesting however to note that there appears to be a general view in this thread, that young girls who get pregnant and have never paid a penny in tax/NI and never have any intention to are worthy of benefits and a roof over their head, also people from a foreign country who have never paid in but claim they are at risk are acceptable as good causes for benefits and a roof over their head.

It is however acceptable by many on this forum that people who have paid into the system with years of tax and NI, are not as worthy to receive help no matter what the situation should they find themselves on hard times.
I think theres a big difference between someone who needs a helping hand and will then be in a ituation to earn a living and pay back into the system than someone who is looking to milk the system for every penny for as long as they can.

Bifta
04-01-2005, 10:30
As I said from the very first post in this thread, I have no sympathy for the guy because he set his own course as far as I'm concerned.

It is interesting however to note that there appears to be a general view in this thread, that young girls who get pregnant and have never paid a penny in tax/NI and never have any intention to are worthy of benefits and a roof over their head, also people from a foreign country who have never paid in but claim they are at risk are acceptable as good causes for benefits and a roof over their head.

It is however acceptable by many on this forum that people who have paid into the system with years of tax and NI, are not as worthy to receive help no matter what the situation should they find themselves on hard times.
I think theres a big difference between someone who needs a helping hand and will then be in a ituation to earn a living and pay back into the system than someone who is looking to milk the system for every penny for as long as they can.

It's even more interesting that you have a beef with pregnant girls getting accommodation, perhaps you'd see her and her baby living in the gutter? Perhaps you'd rather see someone who came to the UK fleeing death living right next door to her? As it turns out he is working for a living and has a roof over his head ... obviously if he was in a position to secure those two things then he didn't actually require help in the first place.

You're right though, I would definately rather an asylum seeker or young mother get somewhere to live than the bloke you mention, they are far more deserving.