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I have been asked to setup a small network for a local business. They want a all Windows network which is good for me and they want a mail server, web server, proxy (ISA) server, file server and another one for their other bits and bobs. I know that ISA and Exchange do not run well together. I am not sure how I can do this and they will be having 25 client machines connected. Does anyone have any suggestions? And for the webserver they have a decent connection, think its something like a 6mb connection so they will be able to host their own from it.
If anyone gets what I mean please reply in what the best way would be. Thanks.
As long as the server is decent I see no reason ISA and exchange could not run on the same server. You are talking a very small numbers of users. Seperate the file server - you don't want that on the same machine as ISA, Exchange and Web, for performance and security reasons.
What sort of servers do you recommend then? Would a couple of shuttle type machines do they job?
Oh and which server OS do you recommend?
MovedGoalPosts
30-12-2004, 01:14
You really must take a look at M$ Small Business Server 2003. www.microsoft.com/sbs.
It's based on Win 2003 server, and runs on a single server. It is intended to support up to 75 clients. The Standard version includes Exchange, with the Premium version adding ISA server and SQL server. As far as I can tell these are the full products, just intended to be configured out of the box for the single server platform and integrated to the one system. You can't put components on different servers. Only if there is a likelihood of your exceeding the 75 client threshold might it not be economic due to the upgrade path costs to full separate M$ products.
I've been running SBS2000 now for 3 years with 20 users on a single Dell PIII 1000GHz 512MB RAM server, and it's done fine, although we don't use SQL or the web server function. However there are also some fairly meaty Access based databases running most of the day for bespoke company applications, so at times demand is quite high. Additionally the server has Antivirus scanning all incoming mail to exchange and ISA, as well as puching the A/V to the workstations. WOrkstations Ideally should be Win 2000 Pro or Wind XP Pro (Win XP Home will not work with SBS).
I suspect with the web server bit it depends on your intended use and traffic whether you might want that on a separate box, and do acknowledge the security risk of running your own server. Ideally it would be nice to keep that separate from your LAN.
What sort of servers do you recommend then? Would a couple of shuttle type machines do they job?What's a shuttle type machine ?
ntl customer
30-12-2004, 02:39
What's a shuttle type machine ?
I think he means in a shuttle case.
I would go against it and go with a normal case. It would allow them to upgrade if their needs change in future and also can help with ventilation (all the components are crammed together in a shuttle case - it wouldn't do much good).
Richard M
30-12-2004, 02:57
I think he means in a shuttle case.
I would go against it and go with a normal case. It would allow them to upgrade if their needs change in future and also can help with ventilation (all the components are crammed together in a shuttle case - it wouldn't do much good).
A Shuttle is not a good server, there's a reason why they're are intended to be living room PCs!
I'd go for a nice Windows 2000 Advanced Server with at least 512MB of RAM, that thing would do nicely. :)
I would suggest goging for SBS2003 as well the top range version runs full windows server 2003 full exchange comes with sharepoint services runs full ISA the lot...
Do not use a shuttle PC.. you want the biggest tower you can get away with this machine will be running at 24/7/365 and needs decent cooling to allow the components to last well..
For cheapness dell servers are good value. it is well owrth going for branded compenents as there can be a lot more hardware issues with server software, and getting good support from the machine manufacturer is very important.
A word of warning.. this is more serious computing, if they plan to use this server to run there business I would think seriously about getting involved if you dont feel confident in any way shape or form about configuring and on going administration....
Thanks for the replies, I will probably go with SBS. I'm still looking for a decent machine as I do not want to go for a branded make, I might look at building one up.
quadplay
30-12-2004, 12:29
The good thing about branded PCs is you get support should something go wrong - a component failure, for example!
MovedGoalPosts
30-12-2004, 12:36
Thanks for the replies, I will probably go with SBS. I'm still looking for a decent machine as I do not want to go for a branded make, I might look at building one up.
A server is a business critical component. If it falls over, even for a second, the whole company is disrupted. There are numerous reasons why failure can occur, but you don't want hardware to be high up that list. Can you really afford to build it your self, and will that show savings on a branded make. Plus are you then going to be offering support on this. Servers need at least 8 hour on site response, and ideally a lot lot more. Bear in mind, particularly with SBS all your eggs are in one basket. Files, email, web, even printing can all need the server. Even in default setup, the network's DNS addresses of individual PCs are assigned by the server so if it falls over the PCs cannot communicate with each other so you don't have a network. SBS is an excellent product, IMO, but you must understand its limitations and the demands it can place on a server.
Your server must have RAID drives, a means of backup, loads of memory (Exchange eats the stuff), and ideally fast processors. Plenty of room for expansion and cooling is, as indicated above, a must. The preferred setup, if you are going to use ISA is two network cards (one connects to the LAN, the other to the Web such that the only way PCs can get tot he web is via the server). The LAN card should be Gigabyte fast connected to a fast switched managed network hub so your LAN runs at max speed. Also consider peripherals like the modem. SBS offers shared fax facilities, quite neat once you work it out) but doesn't like many of the software type internal modems.
Simply configuring the server software and integrating that into the company will be a major sea change to what they have now. There will be disruption for which they will need virtually 24/7 support. Having set up a SBS network from scratch, when previously all we had was a peer to peer Win98 based network, I've been there. Just adapting the SBS software from it's default settings (which work) to your specific companies needs, takes experimentation. Worse once you are up and running, tinkering with the setup can often only be done "out of hours". VPN allows you do do a little of this but a lot of the time the only choice can be to burn the midnight oil at the office.
Top tip, if you are running with SBS. set the internal domain up as "domainname.local", not domainname.com It makes life a lot easier runign the wizards and stuff when you later want to setup your web server.
Do understand the limitations of the SBS licence. Particularly for the web server, you can run a site for your own company, but cannot host for others. But if you were going to do the latter then you should really have dedicated boxes, separate from your LAN.
A very useful book on SBS is Small Business Server Best Practices: Harry Breselford (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/aws/apf.cgi?Operation=ItemLookup&ItemId=0974858048). A useful website on SBS configuration issues: Smallbizserver (http://www.smallbizserver.net), plus the M$ newsgroups are good for a trawl through.
I may have got this wrong but it looks like the organisation you are assisting is trying to do this on the cheap. Bad move.
There's some very good advice from MovedGoalPosts, I would strongly recommend his suggestions.
As he says, for an organisation to try and save a relatively tiny amount by not using branded hardware is, imo, ludicrous. In a corporate environment, it's simply not worth the small financial savings, it would most likely end up being a false economy.
Thanks for the advice. Ive got to meet up with the local business later on in the week but they said they want this to be as cheap as possible so I will tell them. I'm only the person who has been told to implement this and I haven't done many like this before. I have never used SBS so I will coming on here for help if and when the choose to get this setup.
Thanks for the advice so far guys.
paulyoung666
30-12-2004, 16:57
Thanks for the advice. Ive got to meet up with the local business later on in the week but they said they want this to be as cheap as possible so I will tell them. I'm only the person who has been told to implement this and I haven't done many like this before. I have never used SBS so I will coming on here for help if and when the choose to get this setup.
Thanks for the advice so far guys.
please dont take this personaly , but do you have the slightest clue as to what you are doing !!!!!!!! , i know everyone has to learn and will never stop learning but ........ , if you get this wrong you are going to cause so much damage to your rep and to potentially someones buisness that you will end up looking like a right useless **** , tread carefully ;) , like i said , nothing personal :)
MovedGoalPosts
30-12-2004, 17:17
By the looks of things you are getting quite committed to this solution. May I suggest that before you progress too far, you set up a small test environment. Get yourself the server, load it up in default, and connect up a PC or two only to it, so you can see how it all works. Then you can have a play around, find out what needs tweaking. Meanwhile the rest of the company isn't disrupted. Only then will you realise how best to setup the server for the live environment, including drive partition sizes, exchange limitations (do you have SMTP feed or POP for incoming mail - you really want the former for versatile email so you can control the addys). I learn't the hard way, loading it all as the default, running on a live network for a few days, with everyone screaming at me due to problems. Even then I've reloaded and the system twice so as to optimise for my needs, and each server reload has often meant reloading the Workstations too, simply because they didn't pick up the new network configurations properly.
The SBS software is not the only thing to consider. Look at antivirus - you must protect the server, and that needs to update automatically at least once a day. The A/V soft3ware needs to be SBS compatible. I use Pandasoftware, but there are others especially Trend.
How are you going to backup? The SBS includes windows NT backup which is OK, but limited especially for Exchange i.e. it backusp up the whole exchange Database as one. You can't reinstall just one users mailbox, you have to do the lot. You must use an exchange aware backup though or the various logs won't delete and you run out of HD space. Make sure whatever medium i.e. tape will have enough capacity now and in the future.
You need to sit down and price it all out. If you get an off the shelf server, and add some bits to it, you will be able to get OEM versions of SBS, but do allow for the client licences for it (also available as OEM).
My experience, now that I know what I am trying to do, is that the server load and basic configuration of users, etc takes at least a day, especially if there is existing data to be moved over. Then you need time on each workstation to make that speak to the server properly, download software and settings such as Outlook and the ISA client, set the various file paths etc. Some of that is automated, but not all and inevitably you have to do some tweaks.
Yes they may want it done cheap, but they will also want a scapegoat if it doesn't work. Are you prepared for that. Few firms these days are happy once their computers go down.
paulyoung666
30-12-2004, 17:20
<snip>
Yes they may want it done cheap, but they will also want a scapegoat if it doesn't work. Are you prepared for that. Few firms these days are happy once their computers go down.
more or less where i was coming from :(
No offence taken. I know what I am doing as I have setup many smaller networks before but never really used a Server OS like SBS before so I think before we take it any further I will have to setup a test bench. The business already has a network but it's not suitable for what they need now and need everything centralising.
MovedGoalPosts we will be sitting down and discussing some of the points you have made. With regards to anti-virus Sophos will be what we use as I am famillar with that, used it many a time. As for workstations each one will be wiped and setup individually, I know it will take time but I know we can get it right.
I think that the main thing is the configuration of everything. They do not mind if most of the network is down for a week or two as its not heavily used, as long as there are 5 ish machines that can be used for word, excel they are not bothered as they are only just starting to use e-mail so its not really a problem.
Once we get a list of what we need and anything that I need help with I will come here.
JohnHorb
30-12-2004, 17:30
Is this a migration, or a completely new installation? What OS are/will the clients be running? Does sound like an SBS solution, but there's quite a lot to consider if it is a migration from what they already have.
[Edit] just read your latest post - looks like can be treated as a new install, presumably with XP on the clients?
MovedGoalPosts
30-12-2004, 17:52
Ideally clients want Win XP Pro (you cannot use home), but Win 2k Pro is almost as good, just that XP configures easier. Win 98 SE can be used at a push, but it's messy and doesn't give you the security issues.
Look at what software is being used on the network. If you are hoping to keep Office 97 running, you can, but it deosn't integrate tightly with the security systems of win 2k or XP which means your users have to have admin rights to their workstations. You really want at least Office XP (I'm not sure of Office 2000). ONe of the big adavantages of the business class network OS is tha ability to assign users specific rights that stop them tinkering with key parts of the workstation's setup, even to the extent of them not adding software. That can be useful so you, the IT admin, knows exactly how it is set up and thus troubleshooting is a lot easier.
Check with the ISP for email and the web stuff. Can they support the new server connections? Many ISPs cannot.
SBS is a product which has taken a number of M$ consultants by surprise as many small businesses are running it with little or no assistance. Indees the M$ SBS newsgroups are full of privateers looking for small siolutions. I suppose I'm a prime example of that. I'm still learning today. If you are capable of setting up a peer to peer windows network, you can set up an SBS one, it's less about the Server OS, more about the configuration of the added components, but many of the wizards do help you through that. There are plenty of info sites out there to help. But do give yourself plenty of time, and do expect to have to start over a few times while you work out the steep learning curve.
Migration of most data will just be time consuming, a simple network probably only uses Outlook Express for email, and that's where you biggest challenge will be moving that to Exchange and Outlook. Once that is sorted you can add the other extra facilities of SBS as a need arises.
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