View Full Version : help me decide on a moral dillema...
ok this is quite shameful but here goes.....earlier on today i was out with my freinds, going to various bars etc having a good time, then my freind said he would take me to a 'strip club' he would pay for me to get in, so i said fair enough, so we went in there and i was not comfortable with it but i still went along.....
then a lady came up to my freinds and asked; "would any of you like a dance" ofcourse they dont want one, however one of my mates points me out, i was having a drink (non alcoholic) i didnt even look up to her i was that sort of.... ashamed....i just nodded no, and my mate said he will pay for it....so i was dragged off the couch.
at this point i had to wait for about 10-15 mins as it was a busy night and a private dance was not easy to come by with a one on one room....
at this point i did have a look at her, but not in a sexual manner, i just looked at her and thought to myself "why would anyone do such a thing" a place where testosterone laden males are salivating at women as sexual objects, "im sure shes intelligent", "she could so something more honourable"
so im feeling down after a relatively bright start to my day....
so i went in after a period of waiting... and i so wanted to ask her questions about the job, but as i was embarrased as well as a feeling of guilt....you could call it..... it just did not feel right, i dont what these people get up to, it could be leading to other things such as forced prostituion or whatever, but i tend to care alot about people and for the rest of the night and during after this incident still to this moment its on my conscience.
i never asked for anything, as soon as i was in there i felt uneasy.....
so im in a moral dillema, right now everyone is saying its fine you got what was paided for etc but did i enjoy it ? truthfully ? NO! about 20% if a measurement was taken but looking at it, its just not right....
what do you all think ?
God knows how you find it difficult to get a girl mate. As soon as you open your mouth mate, you'll pull, trust me :)
About the strip club, don't worry about it, just try and forget about it. So long as you went to a half-way respectable place, you shouldn't have to worry about forced prostitution. There probably some in most levels of strip clubs, but what can guys do? Boycott them all? Then what happens to the girls? I dare say some of the petrol I buy comes from benefitting terrorists, so does that mean I shouldn't use my car just in case? Anyway, most of the gangmasters/pimps prefer the more traditional form of prostitution.
Bearing in mind that most girls are there by choice, don't worry about how they feel about it. If they didn't like it, they would quit. But they choose to work. The sheer amount of money verus work expended probably has a lot to do with it, and the fact that I haven't met a girl yet that doesn't love attention, and to be made to be to feel sexy.
I do know exactly how you feel though, because I was the same a few years ago. I just gradually accepted that the entire world's problems wern't for me to solve or worry about, so I just started worrying about myself instead.
The short answer is not to go to strip clubs again (nothing wrong with that, just because they are there that doesn't mean you have to like them), the longer answer would be to try not to worry about everything so much, or you'll make yourself ill (or iller).
Don't over-analyse the evening. You were led astray, next time you won't let that happen. No big deal.
btw..........kronas in a strip club :erm: .....pmsl :D
Look kronas,you showed your mates that you can join in and be part of the crowd.You ended up doing something that made you feel uncomfortable to show this.Lots of young men do this.It is perfectly normal.Your mates might rib you for a while but they will eventually forget all about it BUT you will be accepted as one of the guys because of it.It is after all very hard to resist peer pressure.It's probably the hardest part of growing up.We have all succumbed to that in the past. :)
So don't get over anxious about it because as it has been pointed out the girls wouldn't do it if they didn't get well paid for it.To them its a job and you were just another shy punter.You have actually done nothing wrong or illegal. :tu:
You don't ever have to repeat the experience if you don't want to. :)
Now go out and swagger down the streets with your mates. :D
Incog.
As with all experiences you found out this one was not right for you.
Everyone will go thruogh something like this at some part in their life, asking themselves if they should have agreed to that bungee jump, if they should have gone out that evening with those people, etc...
Its something you now know not to experience again, and like you have pointed out, you saw you didnt like and could see that it was making you uncomfortable so now you know that and will not go there again.
Your friends are half to blame for this as they led you on and applied pressure for you to join them, so dont feel too bad.
I have only been in a stip club/lap dancing club once, I was the only one in the group who didn't want to go in.
One of them paid for a woman to lap dance with me, and she was rubbing her mouth around a certain area. (OK sorry ladies too much information)
I just can't see the point, if I can't touch why bother is my attitude. One of the brash Americans paid for about five of us to go in, there was the cost on the door, the expensive drinks and then the dance he paid for me.
I think many guys think this sort of thing is childish, but go along with it to be one of the boys. Don't get me wrong I'm a full blooded male, but I can never see any point in strippers or lap dancers. The place was full of dirty old men in their macs anyway.
kronas, just put it down to experience and realise that men who make such a big fuss about these sort of things are very childish.
I bet the ladies here can't believe my post :)
I have been to a few strip clubs, there is nothing wrong with them.
The girls there get paid a lot, think about it, in scotland, you pay the girl/desk your money, normally a £10 a dance, 50% goes to the girl and 50% goes to the club. You don't even get a full song for that money, you may get 2 mins if you are lucky.
2 mins per dance, 30 dances in an hour - 30 x £5 = £150 per hour. they may work up to 8 hrs per night = £1200 per night times that by maybe 5 nights a week = £6000 and if you say they stay there and work all the time for the year with 4 weeks off they can make £288, 000 in one year alone - this is just one girls yearly earnings, just think about the clubs profits, bearing in mind the club does not pay the girls.
Now these girls are not forced into doing lap dancing, most of these girls see the amount of money they can make.
Considering I have been to 3 lap dancing places, 1 in Dublin (lapelos) and 2 in Glasgow (Diamond Dolls & Legs 'n' Co) I had a good time. My first experience was a bit terrifying, but the girl made me feel comfortable, just by talking to me while she was dancing, and me asking questions..... She was Australian, from a small village in Adelaide, and said I would not know it, but I said I went through it and described it to her, she was happy, and it broke the ice. The next couple of times it was easier, you only have to have a dance if you want a dance, you cannot be forced into it, but treat the girls as sales girls, they will try their hardest to get a dance from you, because of the money to be made, and also treat the girls right, they are not toys, and their is always someone watching you to make sure it does not happen, and big burly guys will kill you if you do.
In the end, it is only a bit of fun for the guys and easy money for the girls.
On the side of prostitution, I did know a girl once who was an exotic dancer who would not get out her bed for less than £5000 a night, and yes it all came out that she actually used the dance part as a front to get some guys to pay for sex, but that is just some girls, she seen it as a way to stay away from pimps, what she made was hers, luckily I only knew her as a client in my gym.
one of my female collegues likes to go to lap dancing places, she is not gay, but just loves the atmosphere, and likes to get a dance, I think she studies the moves for her boyfriend, lucky sod.
but each to their own, lap dancing is not for everyone, if you don't feel comfortable about it you don't have to go along, or if you do, you don't have to have a dance, just have a beer instead.
ik
Raistlin
18-12-2004, 12:53
If you want my opinion (and you must do 'cause you posted here :D ), you did what a lot of people would have done in your situation. I know I would have done the same and my feelings would probably have been very similar to yours before, during, and after the event.
There are a number of things that you should remember here:
First off, we're human. We learn by our experiences, to deny ourselves experience is to deny any chance of self betterment or fulfillment. By all means analyse the experience afterwards but try to only see it for what it truely was/is. There is no part of your tale that makes me think any less of you (nor should there be), if anything I would say that the sentiments that you expressed regarding concern for the girls, and feeling uncomfortable throughout, are more telling of your own personality and moral values than the fact that you entered the strip club in the first place.
Secondly, your post experience feelings are certainly understandable. However, no amount of worry or ill feeling is going to change what has happened. You were placed in a situation that you felt uncomfortable with by people that you (presumably) have known for some time and felt that you could trust. That is not to say that they were wrong, or that you were wrong for allowing the situation to develop, but simply that I would hope that my friends would know me well enough to have known how I was feeling and not to have pressed the point once I had said no. You need to move past this (don't try to forget or repress those feelings but learn from them) and concentrate on the bigger picture.
You have had a very valuable experience. Before you went to the club you only had your own perceptions of what went on inside, which will have been based on the accounts of friends and from what you have learned from various other media. Now that you have seen (and judged) for yourself you are better equipped to form your own opinions, the next time you are asked and say no you will be in the position of knowing that you are making an informed decision based upon experience (see my point above) - this will allow you to stick to that decision (or not to as the case may be).
I sincerely hope that you can get past your feelings of misgivings and celebrate the fact that, as a result of what has happened, you have been given the opportunity to develop.
Regards,
Raist.
etccarmageddon
18-12-2004, 13:00
what do you all think ?
you need to experience all aspects of life in order to become a well rounded individual and also so you can understand/make up your own mind about the world.
nothing more annoying that people who preach this that and the other but have no knowledge whatsoever! of course this doesnt mean you should go as far as sleeping with a hooker or taking drugs just so you understand what it's all about!
the girls in these places make a lot of money and could you have also made an assumption that you're cleverer that they are as you think they could do better for themselves. but in reality they may be smarter than you think cos they make bucket loads of cash for a lot less of a risk than prostitution!
they also talk complete bull**** if you engage in any form a conversation - how many times have I heard the story about how they arrange to meet up for a chinese with "the lads" when they come off their shift!
they are dangerous places to go though cos if the bouncers are told you touched then they could beat the crap out of you.
I sincerely hope that you can get past your feelings of misgivings and celebrate the fact that, as a result of what has happened, you have been given the opportunity to develop.
apparently he took a measurement and it developed by 20%!
...did i enjoy it ? truthfully ? NO! about 20% if a measurement was taken but looking at it, its just not right....
paulyoung666
18-12-2004, 13:06
simple , you have been there , didnt particularly like it , dont go again , if you sit in your room wondering what if , you will never find out , put it down to experience and get on with your life ;) :D :D :D
right first off a big thank you to everyone who has replied.
im not blaming my freinds and i dont think anyone should, they were trying to do me a favour and cheer me up, i did not really make my feelings clear to them until after the event but beforehand i did not look like a 'willing' participant.
maybe a few years ago if i was to go in ( which would be illegal as i would be too young) i may have not thought the same, i only went in on the premise that i was there to look, i really didnt look, only for a brief few moments.
to be honest the problem is i dont see women as objects, you like a women because of the physical side ? then this to me is wrong, i look at personality and such characteristics, i know its not a relationship (duh!) but its something that i have been brought up with, and learnt not to do.
it does not seem morally right.
i know what the places are like, nothing or nothing to shock me, there was little embarrasment, its quite hard to explain but i think pretty much everyone has understood where i am coming from.
it did look like a well run place, with bouncers etc.
now lets hope i can get this feeling out of my system and move on.
right first off a big thank you to everyone who has replied.
im not blaming my freinds and i dont think anyone should, they were trying to do me a favour and cheer me up, i did not really make my feelings clear to them until after the event but beforehand i did not look like a 'willing' participant.
maybe a few years ago if i was to go in ( which would be illegal as i would be too young) i may have not thought the same, i only went in on the premise that i was there to look, i really didnt look, only for a brief few moments.
to be honest the problem is i dont see women as objects, you like a women because of the physical side ? then this to me is wrong, i look at personality and such characteristics, i know its not a relationship (duh!) but its something that i have been brought up with, and learnt not to do.
it does not seem morally right.
i know what the places are like, nothing or nothing to shock me, there was little embarrasment, its quite hard to explain but i think pretty much everyone has understood where i am coming from.
it did look like a well run place, with bouncers etc.
now lets hope i can get this feeling out of my system and move on.
Then lets not dwell on it anymore :tu:
So have you been to the cinema lately?Nice weather we are having for the time of year. :D
paulyoung666
18-12-2004, 19:27
Then lets not dwell on it anymore :tu:
So have you been to the cinema lately?Nice weather we are having for the time of year. :D
well said miss :tu: :D :D :D
Then lets not dwell on it anymore :tu:
So have you been to the cinema lately?Nice weather we are having for the time of year. :D
i hve forgotten already! had a few 'hot' texts with a new lady in my life! :shocked: ;) :p:
paulyoung666
19-12-2004, 09:49
i hve forgotten already! had a few 'hot' texts with a new lady in my life! :shocked: ;) :p:
whey hey , go for it kronie :tu: :D :D :D
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