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View Full Version : Clarivoyance, genunie or a con?


jonboy080269
09-12-2004, 14:54
My girlfriend and her best mate are seriously into clairvoyancy, tarrot
cards and all that etc..

The clairvoyant they both use charges £40 an hour for a tarrot
card reading (not a bad little earner if you can get the business).

What does everyone think of clairvoyance?

Do these people really obtain the abilities to see into the future?
(in which case why cant they predict all 6 lottery numbers every week?)

Or is it just a con?

My current belief is that they make 'generic' statements for which the
believers of tarrot draw comparisons to real life situations - which makes
the believers think that the tarrot readers can see into the future.

Graham
09-12-2004, 15:22
Con.

Next...?

Chris
09-12-2004, 15:29
Con.

Next...?
:rofl:

But seriously ... didn't the ouija boards thread cover a lot of similar ground?

For the record, I think mostly it's a parlour trick, but in cases where people practice it seriously they are capable of channelling the same kind of unpleasant forces as can be behind the ouija board.

/steps back and waits to be accused of turning this into a religious thread.

Jon M
09-12-2004, 15:49
Clari Voyance.. I wonder if she's related to Holly?

dilli-theclaw
09-12-2004, 15:51
MMMmmm - I'd have to say con.

But then I guess you coud've just asked the one they hire and he could've told you that :)

As for what I THINK of them - I couldn't possibly comment withough being banned :)

Russ
09-12-2004, 16:01
If the clairvoyant was only about 3 and a half feet tall and escaped while on remand, would we have a small medium at large?

I certainly feel that it's dangerous, I see it in action each week on the show and the number of people who fight over getting readings is bewildering.

dilli-theclaw
09-12-2004, 16:04
I certainly feel that it's dangerous, I see it in action each week on the show and the number of people who fight over getting readings is bewildering.
I remember my favourite man being on Talk Sport once - the phones were going nuts all night for him....

Odd.

Seti
09-12-2004, 18:14
Charging £40 for a reading !!! WOW Thats an awful lot of money.

I think on the balance of things some people do have a gift. It could just be they are good communicators or good listeners or very good at reading body language. Or they could genuinely be hearing or knowing things about you. I dont' think they are evil, most of them just have a different concept of God or what/who the Source is. There are some of course that are not into any system of religious belief and some who probably are pagan.

I don't think most psychics are con artists but I believe that some of them are just out to make a quick buck. £40 !!!! I wouldn't pay it.

SeTi^

punky
09-12-2004, 18:32
Con.

Next...?

Can't argue with that, but i'll elaborate on it a bit.

Houdini, Penn & Teller and now Derren Brown have now proved it is nonsense.

I highly recommend watching Penn & Teller's show (it's called Bull**it), about mediums, because they set their case so well (you can find it on Suprnova)

Cold reading is a very, very old mind trick which goes back many centuries. You throw something vague out and by reading people's reactions you can work out how right you are.

Examples: "He had something to do with the water, like boats or.." / "He was a fisherman" and later: "He told me my husband was a fisherman, wow!". No, he didn't, you did.

And how to turn a wrong answer into a right one:

"I am speak to your mother... She is really nervous.."

...No response from person...

"Which is so unlike her..."

...person's face lights up... and the 'medium' then has a major piece of info that the person gave her, and will tell everyone that the medium met the person's mother and knew she was not shy.

That's the funny thing. Everyone thinks that mediums give the info out at readings, when actually, it is the exact opposite. If you do not say a word or express a facial expression (or sit behind a curtain), the readings are completely inaccurate as to be nonsense.

Penn also makes the funny observation: "Why if the dead are trying to communicate with the living are they so vague? Are they too busy watching TV at the time to talk clear and detailed to the medium? Are the dead always obsessed with playing charades?"

And i'll like to mention the James Randi Foundation (http://www.randi.org/). It is a charity set up to find evidence of paranormal activity. They offer $1m to anyone that, under controlled, measurable conditions demonstrate any paranormal activity. So far it is unclaimed. You say that to mediums, they say: "It's not about the money, I do it to help people". Well, $1m to charity would help people too wouldn't it?

Theodoric
09-12-2004, 20:29
One very simple question. If clairvoyants can really foretell the future, why aren't they rich? If the answer from them is that they can only see it in very general terms, then that shows exactly how much use their advice is.

Russ
09-12-2004, 20:30
One very simple question. If clairvoyants can really foretell the future, why aren't they rich?

Most of them are ;)

Theodoric
09-12-2004, 20:32
Most of them are ;)
Yes, the thought struck me, but too late it seems. :) What I should have said is, why aren't they rich by some other means than conning the gullible,

Paul
09-12-2004, 20:33
Con.

Next...?Today is one of those rare occasions when I'm in full agreement with Graham. :erm: :D

punky
09-12-2004, 21:17
Today is one of those rare occasions when I'm in full agreement with Graham. :erm: :D

Me three. We never agree. The planets must be in alignment or something. :)

MetaWraith
09-12-2004, 21:26
Clari Voyance.. I wonder if she's related to Holly?
more likely the distant, french relative of Clary, Julian. :)

Earl of Bronze
09-12-2004, 21:39
Wow, so many closed minds.

Personally I've always tried to keep an open mind when it comes to the spiritual side of the human condition. My maternal grandmother always said 'there are more things in heaven and earth than humans truely understand'. So when it comes to 'the spirit world', then I look at it with an inquisitive, but hopefully open mind.

Before anyone asks, I have never had a reading done. Never had the rune's cast, had my palm read, or been to see a medium. Though I do know any number of people who have, and have been surprised, and impressed by what they have been told.

Graham
09-12-2004, 21:48
If the clairvoyant was only about 3 and a half feet tall and escaped while on remand, would we have a small medium at large?

Nope, just a candidate for worst (and oldest!) joke of the week...! :D

Graham
09-12-2004, 21:51
Wow, so many closed minds.

No, just ones who have seen repeated demonstrations of the ways that so called Mediums, Clairvoyants and other such flim-flam artists manage to con gullible people into thinking that they have powers they don't.

There have been *no* independantly verifiable, proven cases of this sort of thing actually working, just a lot of anecdotal evidence that falls apart under scrutiny.

MetaWraith
09-12-2004, 21:53
I've never this headline in the newspaper "Psychic Wins Lottery", doubt I ever will either.

Theodoric
09-12-2004, 21:57
I've never this headline in the newspaper "Psychic Wins Lottery", doubt I ever will either.
Exactly. That would be a much more convincing proof. It reminds me of the story of when Anatole France visited Lourdes. He was shown all the crutches hanging up as proof of the miraculous cures. "Yes," he said, "but where are all the wooden legs?" Extreme claims require extreme proof.

punky
09-12-2004, 22:12
Wow, so many closed minds.

Not at all. I'd believe in the tooth fairy if someone could prove it. That is what the James Randi foundation try and do. They aren't out there try and persue some agenda, they want to get to the bottom of it all.

I believe it is all mind tricks, until someone can prove to me otherwise. I am willing to listen, and I am willing to believe, but you have to have some evidence rather than some spurious vague utterings.

Earl of Bronze
09-12-2004, 22:30
Not at all. I'd believe in the tooth fairy if someone could prove it. That is what the James Randi foundation try and do. They aren't out there try and persue some agenda, they want to get to the bottom of it all.

I believe it is all mind tricks, until someone can prove to me otherwise. I am willing to listen, and I am willing to believe, but you have to have some evidence rather than some spurious vague utterings.

By you're own admission, you believe it's all mind tricks.....

To me it seems you have already made you're choice as to the validity of their claims.

The only person I know of who has 'The Gift' is my mate's granny. On one ocassion she told a family friend that she would get 'The Visit' following her mothers death. Sure enough, that night the lady in question got 'The Visit'.

Spooky...................... :erm:

punky
09-12-2004, 22:34
By you're own admission, you believe it's all mind tricks.....

To me it seems you have already made you're choice as to the validity of their claims.

But that is because that is the most convincing evidence so far. That doesn't mean that tomorrow some guy won't come along and prove me wrong. I want them to. The James Randi Foundation (www.randi.org) wants them to as well.

The only person I know of who has 'The Gift' is my mate's granny. On one ocassion she told a family friend that she would get 'The Visit' following her mothers death. Sure enough, that night the lady in question got 'The Visit'.

Spooky...................... :erm:

Tell your mate's granny to go to that site, she could be a rich lady.

Incidently, what is "The Visit"?

Nikko
09-12-2004, 22:56
I once went to a clairvoyant. The sign on the door said:

'Closed due to unforseen circumstances'

Earl of Bronze
09-12-2004, 22:57
Somehow I dont think my mates granny would be all that interested. The lady in question is in her 90's, very inferm, and January will see the third aniversary of her son's death (my mates father).

'The Visit' is when the reciently dead return to let their loved ones see that while they may be dead, they are waiting. I've only ever heard of this in N.I./ Ireland, perhaps its something to do with the shared Celtic/ Scotts culture of spirits, 'the little people' etc.

Anyway, my mate Peter believes he had 'The Visit' about 4 months after his fathers death, and I think I had 'The Visit' from Maureen about 4 months after her death.

punky
10-12-2004, 00:23
'The Visit' is when the reciently dead return to let their loved ones see that while they may be dead, they are waiting. I've only ever heard of this in N.I./ Ireland, perhaps its something to do with the shared Celtic/ Scotts culture of spirits, 'the little people' etc.

Anyway, my mate Peter believes he had 'The Visit' about 4 months after his fathers death, and I think I had 'The Visit' from Maureen about 4 months after her death.

I see. I think I have had that before too. My mum said she used to smell cigars in the house which was a sign from her grandfather. I sometimes smelt it too, but I am not totally convinced that my grandfather occaisonally pops round to smoke a cigar (yet anyway).

Graham
10-12-2004, 02:59
I believe it is all mind tricks, until someone can prove to me otherwise.

By you're own admission, you believe it's all mind tricks.....

You missed out "until someone can prove otherwise"...

So far all the real proof is on the side of "it's all mind tricks"

ocassion she told a family friend that she would get 'The Visit' following her mothers death. Sure enough, that night the lady in question got 'The Visit'.

Spooky...................... :erm:

So, you have someone who probably already believes in spiritualism, telling someone else (who possibly? probably? also believes and who probably trusts the teller as well) that they will have "The Visit" that night.

So they're thinking about it and it gets into their mind until something happens or they have a dream about that person and they think it must be all true, but it may well simply be because they've already been cued into it!

Not so spooky after all...

jonboy080269
10-12-2004, 14:18
Thanks everyone for there opinions about clarvoyance etc..

I myself do not belive in it at all.

My girlfriend has been told some bad things in the past by a clarvoyant
- somethings quite upsetting. Not something you want to
get for paying someone £40 - being distressed and living in
fear of what a clarvoyant has told you.

I myself would not pay anyone £40 if they could give me the year,
month, day and time I am going to peg it (die).

I think somethings in the future are best kept to themselves.

orangebird
10-12-2004, 14:46
I'm open to believing it. I've never been, but my mum has (to see if she could contact her mother who had dies a year or so previously).

While I think that the clairvoyant my mum went to could've taken an educated guesses at who my mother wanted to contact, the message she gave to my mum from her mother was so specific, we had no choice but to believe it.

I do believe there are some phoneys out there and some very gullible people who pay a lot of many to get a load of tripe back. But I do believe it's possible that some do have the 'gift' and are as real as you and me.

Nugget
10-12-2004, 14:52
I once went to a clairvoyant. The sign on the door said:

'Closed due to unforseen circumstances'

I knew you were going to say that!