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san antonio man
29-11-2004, 05:27
hello this is a thread about ouija boards i am thinking about buying one but on the other hand i dont know.
has anyone used one and if so has anything bad happened?.:(

Nidge
29-11-2004, 06:06
NO no no no no no no no. Steer clear of them mate, when used correctly they can be ok, if you use them on your own you could be leaving yourself open to alsorts. We played one a few years ago on a homemade one, me dad woke up at 3 in the morning to find the letters and glass flying round his bedroom.

punky
29-11-2004, 06:41
It's nonsense.

Penn and Teller debunk things now, and one of the things was the ouija board.

They held a seance with blindfolded people, and it gave yes/no answers etc. Then without telling the group, the rotated the board round. The continued the seance and the pointer pointed to where yes/no used to be, but were now empty spaces on the board.

Its all power of suggestion and mind tricks. I also remembered a thing with Darren Brown a while ago which was cool, and largely proved the same point.

bopdude
29-11-2004, 06:45
NO no no no no no no no. Steer clear of them mate, when used correctly they can be ok, if you use them on your own you could be leaving yourself open to alsorts. We played one a few years ago on a homemade one, me dad woke up at 3 in the morning to find the letters and glass flying round his bedroom.
Ditto the above, never touched it myself but have heard some bad stories, stories ?? maybe, but there must be something in it.
And why is it called a ouija board anyway ?? I know it means " yes, yes " but yes to what ??????

And anyway's, as Nidge says...............No no no no no

paulyoung666
29-11-2004, 09:41
did it once scared myself stupid :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

STONEISLAND
29-11-2004, 09:51
I
did it when I was in my early teens. It told me I would have a car crash in a white car when I was 30. I ****e myself at the time I was 30 and avoided white cars. And will never enter a white car.

Having said that I past 30 and still alive.

But on the run up to that age there was not a day I did not think about it.

Don't do it..........

Salu
29-11-2004, 12:17
Why do people find it easier to believe in evil and the occult than God??

If there is a black there has to be a white....surely.

A lot of people will say Ouija boards.....oooohhh stay away... dodgy. And quite right they are but yet can't or won't believe in God.

My advice to you San Antonio Man is to seek God and not evil. You won't regret it....

timewarrior2001
29-11-2004, 12:24
Why do people find it easier to believe in evil and the occult than God??

If there is a black there has to be a white....surely.

A lot of people will say Ouija boards.....oooohhh stay away... dodgy. And quite right they are but yet can't or won't believe in God.

My advice to you San Antonio Man is to seek God and not evil. You won't regret it....


So making contact with the dead is evil, meaning that anyone that is dead is evil??? WOW extreme view matey.

I refuse to believe in religion at all, I never understood the christian faith, how it preaches tolerance yet is extremely intolerant.
I do however believe in life after death. Your body contains energy, you cant destroy energy only change it from one form to another, when we die, where does that energy go?

Hard as I may try, I dont find Derek Accora evil, Having seen paranormal activity myself I dont think I'm evil. Having visited a spiritualist I dont consider them to be evil.

Back to the Ouija board, yes there are dangers, as Mr Accora says, its like leaving your front door open with a sign saying All Welcome, you just dont know who or what will come through.

Refusing any advice on the grounds of your religious beliefs isnt sound. If you desperately want a ouija board I'd seek guidance from Professionals first. and most certainly be very very carefull.

Salu
29-11-2004, 12:34
So making contact with the dead is evil, meaning that anyone that is dead is evil??? WOW extreme view matey.

I refuse to believe in religion at all, I never understood the christian faith, how it preaches tolerance yet is extremely intolerant.
I do however believe in life after death. Your body contains energy, you cant destroy energy only change it from one form to another, when we die, where does that energy go?

Hard as I may try, I dont find Derek Accora evil, Having seen paranormal activity myself I dont think I'm evil. Having visited a spiritualist I dont consider them to be evil.

Back to the Ouija board, yes there are dangers, as Mr Accora says, its like leaving your front door open with a sign saying All Welcome, you just dont know who or what will come through.

Refusing any advice on the grounds of your religious beliefs isnt sound. If you desperately want a ouija board I'd seek guidance from Professionals first. and most certainly be very very carefull.

I didn't actually say that....but

Evil is anything that is not of God or against God's will. So by San Antonio Man ?looking into Ouija he would be going against God's will..... so you could say that it was evil, yes.

We form the word Good from God and it is no coincidence.

Jon M
29-11-2004, 12:38
So making contact with the dead is evil, meaning that anyone that is dead is evil??? WOW extreme view matey.
He didn't say that, you added the perceived conclusion yourself.

From my point of view, you aren't contacting the "dead" .. you are actually speaking to evil spirits.
My understanding is that we cannot commune with the dead at all, often, when we think we are, it's an evil spirit impersonating a family member or loved one.

The Bible specifically condemns divination, witchcraft and mediums, not because it's just a rule, but because it's so dangerous.

timewarrior2001
29-11-2004, 13:03
He didn't say that, you added the perceived conclusion yourself.

From my point of view, you aren't contacting the "dead" .. you are actually speaking to evil spirits.
My understanding is that we cannot commune with the dead at all, often, when we think we are, it's an evil spirit impersonating a family member or loved one.

The Bible specifically condemns divination, witchcraft and mediums, not because it's just a rule, but because it's so dangerous.

The bible is 2000 ish years old.

I'd say its probably a tad out of touch with modern life.

OK I accept thats not exactly what he said, but I take great personal pains to insist that the person I had contact with knew only things me and she knew, and were repeated to me via the medium. Now I like to take great comfort from the fact that Louise is still around me and notices the things I do from day to day. There may be no heaven for her, as she took her own life, and God the all forgiving would banish her from heaven as unfit. Thats neither here nor there really as my gripe isnt with christianity as such. However I dont understand how Christians can pray to god knowing only god willk answer, yet if someone who probably or in my case certainly doesnt believe in god "prays" or makes contact with others its regarded as evil.

Well as much as I dont wish to offend people for their beliefs I must in all decency of my own beliefs stick two fingers up at that. I'm guessing because Hindu's dont pray to GOD they are evil, that their gods are evil spirits. Thats how it sounds and looks to me, how can Christians be so sure? How can they insist that their beliefs are the only true ones and that to worship anything else is evil. Sorry this is the 21st century and we've moved on from roasting people at the stake, people seek comfort in any way that is relevant to them, be it the christian church, the church of jesus christ later day saint or the church of satan. If they seek to contact the dead by means of a ouija board that is the path they have chosen for themselves and they shouldnt have advice thats tainted with someone elses religious views.

Wiccan withcraft teaches people that anything you do to others comes back 3 fold, you point your finger, its one to them and three back at you. Voodoo is a religion that is seriously misunderstood, we seem to be infatuated with the negative side of it, however all religions have this and all religions have a means of communication with the dead, be it praying to jesus, who I believe died a few years ago nailed to a wooden cross. Or communication with departed loved ones. If there is a heaven, and theres an afterlife why should there not be communication?

Ouija boards like all tools can be misused and if not used correctly can prove to be dangerous, however if used correctly can be informative and although scary can lead to a greater understanding and an inner peace.

Bifta
29-11-2004, 13:27
My advice to you San Antonio Man is to seek God and not evil. You won't regret it....

I don't think preaching to people on here is entirely appropriate, no other christian members do it.

Salu
29-11-2004, 13:29
Interesting questions......

Have you actually sought God or just researched Him? If you earnestly sought God then He would answer. He has to millions of others across the world for centuries....

orangebird
29-11-2004, 13:31
The bible is 2000 ish years old.

I'd say its probably a tad out of touch with modern life.

OK I accept thats not exactly what he said, but I take great personal pains to insist that the person I had contact with knew only things me and she knew, and were repeated to me via the medium. Now I like to take great comfort from the fact that Louise is still around me and notices the things I do from day to day. There may be no heaven for her, as she took her own life, and God the all forgiving would banish her from heaven as unfit. Thats neither here nor there really as my gripe isnt with christianity as such. However I dont understand how Christians can pray to god knowing only god willk answer, yet if someone who probably or in my case certainly doesnt believe in god "prays" or makes contact with others its regarded as evil.

Well as much as I dont wish to offend people for their beliefs I must in all decency of my own beliefs stick two fingers up at that. I'm guessing because Hindu's dont pray to GOD they are evil, that their gods are evil spirits. Thats how it sounds and looks to me, how can Christians be so sure? How can they insist that their beliefs are the only true ones and that to worship anything else is evil. Sorry this is the 21st century and we've moved on from roasting people at the stake, people seek comfort in any way that is relevant to them, be it the christian church, the church of jesus christ later day saint or the church of satan. If they seek to contact the dead by means of a ouija board that is the path they have chosen for themselves and they shouldnt have advice thats tainted with someone elses religious views.

Wiccan withcraft teaches people that anything you do to others comes back 3 fold, you point your finger, its one to them and three back at you. Voodoo is a religion that is seriously misunderstood, we seem to be infatuated with the negative side of it, however all religions have this and all religions have a means of communication with the dead, be it praying to jesus, who I believe died a few years ago nailed to a wooden cross. Or communication with departed loved ones. If there is a heaven, and theres an afterlife why should there not be communication?

Ouija boards like all tools can be misused and if not used correctly can prove to be dangerous, however if used correctly can be informative and although scary can lead to a greater understanding and an inner peace.

:clap:

I can only echo all of that. I used a home made board once - two 'spirits' contacted us. Neither of them were related to anyone involved, but used to at one point or another live in the building in which we were using our board. They weren't evil at all, but very inquisitive, almost chatty...! It was all very friendly, and very awesome. I wouldn't recommmend people do boards, but I can only say my experience was a good one.

I don't believe in God. I've never seen him, he's never spoke to me, and he's let friends and family of mine die way before their time.

The spirits I encountered whilst doing the board 'spoke' to me, were friendly, did nothing to upset me and didn't take away any friends or family.

I know what I'd rather believe in. :shrug:

Russ
29-11-2004, 13:37
I don't think preaching to people on here is entirely appropriate, no other christian members do it.

Whilst I agree this site isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t for preaching on (and it's not something I'd ever do), I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t see the difference between one of us bible-bashers preaching and an atheist saying there is no God.

Bifta
29-11-2004, 13:43
Whilst I agree this site isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t for preaching on (and it's not something I'd ever do), I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t see the difference between one of us bible-bashers preaching and an atheist saying there is no God.

There's a HUGE difference, the atheist isn't advising people directly to NOT believe in god, they are expressing their own personal view, if they were, I'd hold exactly the same view of them, I find people preaching thoroughly distasteful.

Russ
29-11-2004, 13:51
What if it's someone's opinion that others should believe in God? They're still just expressing their personal view.

Nemesis
29-11-2004, 13:55
Off topic ....

Bifta
29-11-2004, 13:57
What if it's someone's opinion that others should believe in God? They're still just expressing their personal view.

I think you're being argumentative needlessly now, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Some opinions need to be kept to one's self, I have a variety of opinions I could post about but they'd be viewed as unacceptable.

sherer
29-11-2004, 14:23
it always seems funny to me how so many topics end up being religious arguments..

as for the ouija board i just always thought they were abit of harmless fun. not used one myself but wouldn't be adverse to it..

prob best to just take it as some light hearted entertainment with some friends rather than a deep religious thing and you should be ok

orangebird
29-11-2004, 14:33
I never knew ouija boards were anyting to do with religion? :confused:

I'm fascinated by them, I'll admit. I also love programmes like Johanathan Edwards and Colin Fry, who have that ability to contact people from beyond. I never saw this as anything religious, just about some peoples minds being open enough to receive people that have passed over, and the audiences are those who can't receive, but want to be in contact. :shrug:

Graham
29-11-2004, 14:53
hello this is a thread about ouija boards i am thinking about buying one but on the other hand i dont know.

NO! Don't do it!!

Don't you realise you'll end up in a bad Teen Horror Movie!!!!

(PS: Look, folks, we've got *enough* religious threads going, please don't let this turn into *another* one...!)

Salu
29-11-2004, 14:54
I don't think preaching to people on here is entirely appropriate, no other christian members do it.

I wasn't preaching. I was giving advice.

My advice to you San Antonio Man is to seek God and not evil. You won't regret it....

Damien
29-11-2004, 15:06
oh for the love of....

its a bloody board. Whats gonna happen?

I heard that Monopoly is evil as well and it summons the dead to become landlords of old kent road while spying for the russians and eating dead cats

Bifta
29-11-2004, 15:08
I wasn't preaching. I was giving advice.

No, you were preaching, we went from a perfectly innocent subject about Ouija boards to you telling people to find god, any danger of you cutting it out?

Damien: Monopoly is capitilistic EVIL! I can't urge you strongly enough to find Fidel Castro! (You'll be so much happier or something)

Damien
29-11-2004, 15:14
Where might i find this castro?

As for god....

Macca371
29-11-2004, 15:36
Never used one, Dad is catholic, he would kill me if he saw me with one.

Mum had a story of when she was using one with her Mum and her cousin and her sister. Spelled a few letters out (she couldn't remember which ones), then the glass smashed.

I'm not sure myself, I like to keep an open mind. If you are in a dilemma on whether or not to buy one, just ask yourself, after hearing some of the more terribles stories of people using them, and after weighing up some of the apparent risks involved, is it really worth the risk?

However I must say this stuff does fascinate me a lot.

Damien
29-11-2004, 15:51
Here ya go, i thought this was a good thing to add to this topic. Its from calvin and hobbies...

Took me ages to find it, I have over 3500 Calvin strips couldnt be arsed to put them in any bloody order (apart from year) :dunce::disturbd:

Chris
29-11-2004, 15:56
I never knew ouija boards were anyting to do with religion? :confused:

I'm fascinated by them, I'll admit. I also love programmes like Johanathan Edwards and Colin Fry, who have that ability to contact people from beyond. I never saw this as anything religious, just about some peoples minds being open enough to receive people that have passed over, and the audiences are those who can't receive, but want to be in contact. :shrug: It's religious insofar as Ouija boards purport to contact people who have died, and what happens to you when you die is one of religion's central concerns. There's really no point protesting that this shouldn't become another religious thread (I know you didn't, but some have), any thread that starts out with, more or less, 'what do you think of ouija boards?', is inviting opinion from people who have their own ideas about the afterlife.

Salu
29-11-2004, 16:54
No, you were preaching, we went from a perfectly innocent subject about Ouija boards to you telling people to find god, any danger of you cutting it out?

Damien: Monopoly is capitilistic EVIL! I can't urge you strongly enough to find Fidel Castro! (You'll be so much happier or something)

Oooooooh no I wasn't..... [Panto voice]

ikthius
29-11-2004, 18:03
Well, if you are not too religious then why not try it? if you are and you don't think it is a good idea then don't get one.

Personally I think it is all about suggestion and subconsious movements that people feel and it makes the ouija glass move, not spirits.

However, I am a catholic, and I would love to go to a medium/psychic out of interest, maybe even try a ouija board, but this is my choice.

Doubting thomas was religious and followed jesus, but he still wanted proof that he raised from the dead, you can have your own doubts.

ik

cookie_365
29-11-2004, 18:38
Have you lot never played Ghostmaster ?

You'll end up being chased around a film set from Carry On Screaming by the campest ghoullies imaginable ! ;)

Seriously, either you believe in life after death or you don't. If you do believe, then it's up to you if you want your souls devoured by a 7 -headed demon. If you don't, then I can't see the entertainment value of sitting around a bit of wood for half an hour with the lights off ......

smegs
29-11-2004, 18:43
My dad tried it once scared him so bad that even now after all these years he stll refuses to talk about it.

Ramrod
29-11-2004, 18:58
See, I have heeded the dire warnings and never messed about with a ouija board :D

Bex
29-11-2004, 20:48
when i was a teenager, there was all these rumours etc going round about people being told they were going to die etc... i must admit i tried it once, and it was complete tosh.. in my opinion... i think the thought of doing it, and the rumours/myths surrounding it make it seems scarier and more exciting than it actually is.

and no offence to anyone who believes in this stuff, because everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but i don't believe in mediums either... i've sat and watched colin fry or whatever his name is, and he starts with an ambigous statement and then from the reaction of the people builds it up. it may not even be conscious replies but subconsciously people respond.

Theodoric
29-11-2004, 20:51
Did you know that the name, ouija, comes from the French and German for yes?

dilli-theclaw
29-11-2004, 20:53
hello this is a thread about ouija boards i am thinking about buying one but on the other hand i dont know.
has anyone used one and if so has anything bad happened?.:(
No I haven't tried it - I have heard about people that have and they have had both bad and good experiences.

I ask this in all seriousness.... is there a specific reason why you can't make your own out of some card or something?

Damien
29-11-2004, 22:56
I hear that Trival pursuit has a secret code that directs users to the location of the holy grail

Seriosly this all exists in the mind, the whole thing is stupid

ikthius
29-11-2004, 23:20
Damien, should your thread not be in the holy grail thread??
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=20590&highlight=holy+grail

ik

Damien
29-11-2004, 23:29
Damien, should your thread not be in the holy grail thread??
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=20590&highlight=holy+grail

ik
:dozey:

Thats it, I am outta this topic

AndrewJ
29-11-2004, 23:40
Being Wiccan myself, I have also heeded the warnings of that board, true people can shape there lives how they want, some people want to be open some don't who is a outsider to judge such a decision as to mark someones life in what is right and wrong ?

homealone
30-11-2004, 00:20
true people can shape there lives how they want, some people want to be open some don't who is a outsider to judge such a decision as to mark someones life in what is right and wrong ?

well said ..

who is to decide ......

Nikko
30-11-2004, 00:56
I thought I was Ok at gaming.

However fast I try and go at Ouija, I never seem to get past Medium.

Graham
30-11-2004, 01:16
However fast I try and go at Ouija, I never seem to get past Medium.

:knock: :knock: :knock: :knock: :knock:

Nikko
30-11-2004, 01:19
:knock: :knock: :knock: :knock: :knock:

Hey at least I didn't have to spell it out for you

AndrewJ
30-11-2004, 02:42
:LOL:

May have a read into this with some trusted books not those kinda books you get at WHSmiths for £12.99 which are just movie based part truth and part lies.

But the magickal occult is for people who respect and confidence, just doing the craft or arts within the craft when one is not with the wisdom, and self restraint is a dangerous past time as when things go wrong, generally they go wrong big time.

Macca371
30-11-2004, 02:47
:LOL:

May have a read into this with some trusted books not those kinda books you get at WHSmiths for £12.99 which are just movie based part truth and part lies.

But the magickal occult is for people who respect and confidence, just doing the craft or arts within the craft when one is not with the wisdom, and self restraint is a dangerous past time as when things go wrong, generally they go wrong big time.

It makes me cringe when people at college walk around with the pentacle sign everywhere and they claim to be Pagan just to be fasionable and stylish. It's the fad at our college this term. Ask them any question about Paganism and they won't know the answer.

Been to Cornwall a lot throughout the years though and seen a lot of the Pagan and Wiccan cultures. They seem like very nice people but take it all very seriously.

Marge
30-11-2004, 02:58
Quite a few years ago me, my friend and her sister were messing around as kids do in the garage and we decided to do the old "join hands and see if anyone was there" seance thing. There was only us and we were stood at the opposite end to the garage door which was closed. We whispered "is there anyone there, if so knock once for no and twice for yes" Well BANG BANG on the garage door, we started laughing and didn't think too much of it. We gave it a couple of minutes and did it again. I nearly had a heart attack, the door BANGED twice that loud I thought it was gonna come off it's hinges. We legged it out of the garage all screaming and to this day it freaks me to think about it. No-one else knew we were in there and we were talking in whispers, not like anyone could have heard us outside and knew when to knock :erm: Have a go at it by all means but I would say be prepared to be surprised...........

AndrewJ
30-11-2004, 03:01
I understand what your saying about wannabe Wiccans/Pagans I myself have been Wiccan for over 8 years now since I was of age to make my own mind up.

It hurts because society have a bad view of Wiccans and Pagans and regard any person who deals in the occult to be Evil and Devil Worshippers.

As for the banging on garage door, perhaps one night I should take you to the forest circle in Scotland and see how you feel about it there ;) beautiful place once your used to all the noises.

I wear my pentacle with pride because I know my laws and repect them and learn more wisdom by not treating the craft like a fashion statement.

carlingman
30-11-2004, 04:15
We also did the ouija board thing many moons ago on a school holiday in the Black Forest in Germany and it spelt out a name of a fellow pupil saying accident.

The very next day we went to the Freiburg Fair and ribbed the guy merciless saying theres gonna be an accident an accident in our non believing state.

It got to a point where we had to entice him off the coach and tell him it was a wind up as he would not get off the coach so even though we had not faked it spelling his name we told him we had.

More fool us as he got off the coach and came into the fair with us and twenty minutes later he was stabbed accidentally by drifting past a dispute.

Fortunately it was not serious and only a small scrape with knife.

:Yikes: Spooky tho all the same.

:confused:

Damien
30-11-2004, 09:25
It wont kill you, so why not try it

Nugget
30-11-2004, 09:48
It wont kill you, so why not try it

It might if the glass flies off the board and smacks you in the head!

punky
30-11-2004, 10:41
It wont kill you, so why not try it

The trouble is though, it can play powerful tricks with your mind, which could lead to mental health problems, like paranoia, etc, which in some respects is worse.

Although I think there is very little to do with ghosts in it, I think only very emotionally sound, and strong people should do it.

Pierre
30-11-2004, 11:35
Is there an after life?

Are there spirits of past souls with us?

Are they good?

Are they malevoelent?

Are there Demons?

Are there Angels?

If the answer is true to any of those questions, do you really think they need a glass on a table to communicate with us??????

It's all total Bullooks, get a group of people together turn off the lights light the candle and let your imagination take over. Thats all it is. Mass hysteria.

Take "Most Haunted" for example. Walk around an old stately home or abbey etc in the daytime with a group of people - no problem.

Do the same at night with the lights out, by yourself - very scary.

The difference? your imagination. At night you can't see to well, so you imagination fills in the blanks with what you are expecting to see, or hear.

I'm sure Ouija boards are great entertainment - in fact in Victorian Britain that is what you bought them as, a parlour game.

I doubt very much you will open the gates of hell by using it.

Russ
30-11-2004, 11:37
It's not often I agree with you but that was one fine post! Have a green one :)

Stuart
30-11-2004, 12:20
when i was a teenager, there was all these rumours etc going round about people being told they were going to die etc... i must admit i tried it once, and it was complete tosh.. in my opinion... i think the thought of doing it, and the rumours/myths surrounding it make it seems scarier and more exciting than it actually is.

and no offence to anyone who believes in this stuff, because everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but i don't believe in mediums either... i've sat and watched colin fry or whatever his name is, and he starts with an ambigous statement and then from the reaction of the people builds it up. it may not even be conscious replies but subconsciously people respond.
I don't necessarily believe in Mediums either. However, I did once have a gypsy walk up to me and give a fairly complete description of my character. That did freak me out a bit. She even told me what industry I worked in..

As for Ouija boards.. I don't know if I believe they are real, however I do know someone who tried one, and ultimately ended up taking medication to control her paranoia. Having said that, it's entirely possible that the paranoia was there already, and the board just triggered it. I have never been tempted to try them.


Whilst I agree this site isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t for preaching on (and it's not something I'd ever do), I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t see the difference between one of us bible-bashers preaching and an atheist saying there is no God.
Err, as Bifta says, there is a huge difference.

If I state that there is no God (not that I would), I am not asking you to believe there is no God. I think we are all free to believe what we will.

By preaching (even "advising" as Salu calls it) you are not only telling someone there is a God, but asking them to believe in Him..

Russ
30-11-2004, 12:48
If I state that there is no God (not that I would), I am not asking you to believe there is no God.

You would be imposing your beliefs on to me, which is what we seem to get accused of so often.

Stuart
30-11-2004, 13:03
You would be imposing your beliefs on to me, which is what we seem to get accused of so often.
But no one has said we have to believe the same thing...

Anyway, this is going off topic..

As I said, my friend did end up on medication after using a ouija board, but she did have several other things going on in her life that could have affected her mental health. It's entirely possible the thought of using a Ouija board scared her enough to cause problems, without any spiritual involvment.

Chris
30-11-2004, 13:43
I think when people accuse us (the forum Bible Bashers) of imposing our beliefs on others for simply stating what those beliefs are, then they are wrong. Similarly, if I said an atheist was imposing his beliefs on me for stating his conviction that there is no god, then I would be wrong.

'Inviting' or 'encouraging' someone to consider seeking god or following a particular religion is not imposing either, but it is prosyletizing and is not normally appropriate in a forum IMHO, unless specifically invited to do so. I think that goes for atheists too by the way, and if I may be so bold, I believe I see a lot more atheistic prosyletizing going on on this forum than I do for any theistic religion. Challenging religious belief ('inviting' or 'encouraging' Christians to see the error of their ways) appears acceptable in a way that gets people annoyed on the rare occasions that a Christian challenges someone on this board to take a serious look at the religion.

Anyhow, as Stu has said this is all off topic.

My thoughts on Ouija boards, attempting to take in what some others have already shared:

1. I believe that they are capable of contacting genuine spiritual powers; that is, they are not a mere parlour trick / mind game / mass hysteria.

If they are indeed in touch with intelligent spiritual entities, then no amount of scientific experimentation or prime-time TV exposure will prove one way or the other whether they really work. Science relies on repeatable, predicatable results for proof, from inanimate elements that behave according to definable laws. Intelligent beings do not behave in any such way. (It would be a bit like 'proving' that the telephone doesn't work by phoning someone who just chooses not to answer).

None of the above precludes the possibility of people controlling the glass or pointer themselves as a result of clever psychological suggestion by a stage hypnotist, but then the fact that a hypnotist can get people to react in such a way does not prove that there is no other way of making a ouija board pointer to move. I would have thought that, in order to minimise the possibility of interference from living participants in the seance, everthing ought to be done to avoid 'contamination' - a stage hypnotist would be the last person who should be running the show.

2. I believe that the spirit beings summoned up by ouija boards are always evil. This belief arises from portions of the Bible that make clear that communication between the living and the dead is not only forbidden, but impossible, except in very exceptional circumstances with God's direct involvement.

I am *not* saying that when dear old Auntie Mabel starts talking through a ouija board about things only she could know, that this proves Auntie Mabel was evel and has gone to hell. I am saying that it is not Auntie Mabel at all. It is an evil spirit impersonating her, and seeing as spirits are invisible to the naked eye they are more than capable of eavesdropping and therefore being fully aware of all the things that supposedly Auntie Mabel would know. There are a whole host of evil spirits allied with Satan and between them they ought to be able to pull off a reasonably impressive impersonation of anyone you might try to summon up.

3. The spirit realm is more powerful than the physical by several orders of magnitude and anyone who opens themselves to it is asking for trouble. I have heard far too many stories of glasses smashing and other freaky stuff from people who I trust not to make this sort of thing up to believe otherwise. In fact, I know of one group of people who threw the glass out of a third storey window when things got too freaky for them. The glass bounced when it hit the pavement.

Pierre
30-11-2004, 14:47
<SNIP>

My thoughts on Ouija boards, attempting to take in what some others have already shared:

1. I believe that they are capable of contacting genuine spiritual powers; that is, they are not a mere parlour trick / mind game / mass hysteria.

If they are indeed in touch with intelligent spiritual entities, then no amount of scientific experimentation or prime-time TV exposure will prove one way or the other whether they really work.

I need hard evidence, Derek "the Fraud" Acorah, doesn't cut it for me. Nor does moving a glass on a table. If a "spirit power" wanted to communicate I'm sure it could come up with something a bit better.

Science relies on repeatable, predicatable results for proof

True

from inanimate elements that behave according to definable laws. Intelligent beings do not behave in any such way not quite true, ask a psycholgist I think you'll find that "intelligent" beings such as us, conform to set types, and set behaviours for that type and the given situation they are in.

None of the above precludes the possibility of people controlling the glass or pointer themselves as a result of clever psychological suggestion by a stage hypnotist, but then the fact that a hypnotist can get people to react in such a way does not prove that there is no other way of making a ouija board pointer to move. in order for the pointer to move someone has to push it. That act requires human thought and action, this could be sub-conciously because that person really wants to believe it could happen. Evidence of an external power, for me, would be for the glass/pointer to move by itself - but you never that. So that makes me sceptical that someone has to be touching it.


2. I believe that the spirit beings summoned up by ouija boards are always evil. This belief arises from portions of the Bible that make clear that communication between the living and the dead is not only forbidden, but impossible, except in very exceptional circumstances with God's direct involvement.

Therefore that's your belief, I on the other hand don't believe it can summon spirits - good or bad


I am *not* saying that when dear old Auntie Mabel starts talking through a ouija board about things only she could know, that this proves Auntie Mabel was evel and has gone to hell. I am saying that it is not Auntie Mabel at all. It is an evil spirit impersonating her, and seeing as spirits are invisible to the naked eye they are more than capable of eavesdropping and therefore being fully aware of all the things that supposedly Auntie Mabel would know. There are a whole host of evil spirits allied with Satan and between them they ought to be able to pull off a reasonably impressive impersonation of anyone you might try to summon up.

I believe that the only one doing a good impression of aunt mable is not the spirit but the fraud of a medium.


3. The spirit realm is more powerful than the physical by several orders of magnitude and anyone who opens themselves to it is asking for trouble. again a statement based on a belief, which is ok, but impossible to prove either way.

I have heard far too many stories of glasses smashing and other freaky stuff from people who I trust not to make this sort of thing up to believe otherwise. In fact, I know of one group of people who threw the glass out of a third storey window when things got too freaky for them. The glass bounced when it hit the pavement.

and if I had a pound for the freaky stories I'd heard, I'd have about £30. But with this all you ever get is stories, and blurred photos and tapes of unintelligable voices etc etc.

If something otherworldly exisited, why don't they just show themselves?

Chris
30-11-2004, 15:04
If something otherworldly exisited, why don't they just show themselves?
If they did, would we believe them? To drift off-topic again, Christians contend that this is exactly what God did, through Jesus, by performing miracles and ultimately causing him to beat death itself. All this is backed up by more documentary evidence than exists for Julius Caesar, but a lot of people even then had a hard time accepting it. Those who did accept the evidence of their eyes chose to attribute it an explanation that suited their own world view (in some cases, accusing Jesus of being in league with the devil).

As has often been pointed out on this forum, by people on both sides of the 'argument', belief is a deeply personal thing and most people don't like having it challenged.

As for what you say about it being my opinion ... yes, it is, but not opinion formed on a whim out of thin air; my opinion is based on the Bible and my spiritual experience of God, and I could go on at great length about the rigorous testing I put those through before trusting them. That, however, is a different thread entirely.

Pierre
30-11-2004, 15:22
If they did, would we believe them? To drift off-topic again, Christians contend that this is exactly what God did, through Jesus, by performing miracles and ultimately causing him to beat death itself. All this is backed up by more documentary evidence than exists for Julius Caesar, but a lot of people even then had a hard time accepting it. Those who did accept the evidence of their eyes chose to attribute it an explanation that suited their own world view (in some cases, accusing Jesus of being in league with the devil).

As has often been pointed out on this forum, by people on both sides of the 'argument', belief is a deeply personal thing and most people don't like having it challenged.

As for what you say about it being my opinion ... yes, it is, but not opinion formed on a whim out of thin air; my opinion is based on the Bible and my spiritual experience of God, and I could go on at great length about the rigorous testing I put those through before trusting them. That, however, is a different thread entirely.

I wouldn't dream of knocking others beliefs. I guess we're at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I can't blindly (and I'm not saying that you blindly) believe in something without tangible evidence. The point I was trying to make was that in this day and age we should be able to gain some kind of evidence.

It's like UFOs, why are pictures of UFOs always shakey and out of focus. It makes me laugh that in 50 years of UFO sightings and photos and videos, there is still no credible evidence, and it's the same with paranormal phenomenom.

The lack of decent evidence in modern times is what makes me sceptical.

Chris
30-11-2004, 16:07
I wouldn't dream of knocking others beliefs.
s'OK, I know you're not doing that. ;)

The need for proof is an interesting concept though. Arriving at an agreement over what constitutes proof in the first place is difficult enough.

The problem (if it is a problem) with proof of things spiritual, is that it is personal proof that is difficult to share, since it deals with things outside the physical universe and therefore beyond our scientific methods, which have all been designed with the physical in mind.

When I looked into the Bible, I found that what it said about the human condition stacked up. That in turn gave credence to its proposed solution, and once I was prepared to give that some serious attention, and to consider my own spiritual existence, at that point I had eyes to see the spiritual proof and God was able to convince me about himself in ways that I couldn't possibly share here (because it's all too easy to put someone else's spiritual experiences down to subjective experience or whatever).

What's all this got to do with ouija boards? Well they, like any theistic religion, claim to have something to do with a spirit realm. That makes them difficult to test scientifically because the spirit realm is by definition beyond the reach of science. There are things you can do, scientifically, to assist with an examination of the phenomenon, but I disagree with the notion that people are as predictable as you suggest a psychologist might claim - and in any case, if ouija boards really do connect with 'the other side', and if that connection is with evil spirits, as I am contending, then I doubt any psychological profile on Earth would be any use at determining the manner in which the intelligence behind the board might choose to behave.

timewarrior2001
30-11-2004, 16:22
I notice that so far no one has managed to hazard a guess what happens to the energy of life when we die? Electrical energy that keeps us alive, cannot be destroyed, only changed from one form to another.

Religion is inter twined with this thread as much as we dont need another religion thread its kind of hard to have one without the other here.

So here goes......

Blah blah blah (the I dont believe in religion, I'm not aetheist I dont believe in religion) blah blah blah.
Boring bit over and done with :D

I am fascinated with the occult, I avidly read up on witchcraft and satanism, I believe and have experienced supernatural activity.
Am I evil? Have I been touched by evil? If I have why is it that I am a perfectly law abiding citizen that has yet to hurt anyone? I dont even have speeding convictions or parking tickets, I was arrested once for drunk and incapable but was not taken to court, yet I experience these often wonderful, usually terrifying events.
If I was Christian I would probably have to assume the Devil was after me, why? because a 2 thousand year old book says so? I'm pretty sure that even if I believed in religion that I wouldnt take the writting ina book that has been translated thousands of times and has varying versions, as the truth.
I s'pose that by following the bible's teachings you could be in fact harming yourself, after all, not everyone is christian and if there is no afterlife being god fearing for your life achieved very little did it?
However, expressing a belief in things other than the christian way of thinking, causes some people to insist that its all nonsense and a load of old speculative rubbish (which without wanting to cause offence is how I see religion full stop). I'm just thankfull that by saying this I wont be cremated alive by the forgiving christian religious figures. I wont be branded a heretic and I am still entriely convinced in an afterlife, that is neither heaven nor hell.

Salu
30-11-2004, 16:57
By preaching (even "advising" as Salu calls it) you are not only telling someone there is a God, but asking them to believe in Him..

I would still dispute this "preaching" business.....

If a preacher were to stand at the front of my church and say "I would advise you to seek God" then sat down, I would be disappointed. That would be a pretty naff sermon. Preaching surely is more than a sentence?

Why doesn't anyone harp on about "preaching" when others have suggested that people should buy this computer or watch a particular program on the TV. Are they not "forcing" their views on the rest of the forum?

Chris
30-11-2004, 17:02
I notice that so far no one has managed to hazard a guess what happens to the energy of life when we die? Electrical energy that keeps us alive, cannot be destroyed, only changed from one form to another.
Energy is part of the created universe. Energy is constantly being added to my body to replace the bits that drop off. When I die, this process will stop and the energy that makes up my body will either become worm food, or will momentarily increase the temperature of a cremation furnace by a few degrees celcius. My spirit, however, is entirely separate, does not depend on the physical universe for its existence, and will go on afterwards.

Religion is inter twined with this thread as much as we dont need another religion thread its kind of hard to have one without the other here.

So here goes......

Blah blah blah (the I dont believe in religion, I'm not aetheist I dont believe in religion) blah blah blah.
Boring bit over and done with :D
Right .... :erm:

I am fascinated with the occult, I avidly read up on witchcraft and satanism, I believe and have experienced supernatural activity.
Then you too have an interest in religion, as the supernatural is one of the things Religion talks about.

I don't understand where people are coming from insisting that 'we don't need another religious thread around here', or 'this has nothing to do with religion'. Everybody has a philosophy that helps them understand life - including those whose philosophy is that nothing exists beyond what you can prove scientifically. Religion is no less valid in any debate than any other point of view. But if the opinions of people whose views are illuminated by their faith are so offensive, then simply set us on 'ignore'. :)

Am I evil? Have I been touched by evil? If I have why is it that I am a perfectly law abiding citizen that has yet to hurt anyone? I dont even have speeding convictions or parking tickets, I was arrested once for drunk and incapable but was not taken to court, yet I experience these often wonderful, usually terrifying events.
If you are claiming that you have never said or done a single thing in your entire life that you have regretted, or has upset anyone else, then you are a liar.

But I do not think you arre a liar; I think you are defining 'evil' in such a way as to place yourself on the right side of it. This is perfectly natural - we all do it. The fact is, however, the Christian faith teaches that the 'pass mark' for heaven is a perfect 100%. One single slip up and you are less perfect than God and less perfect than heaven. And since heaven is where God lives, and he is entitled not to have it messed up, the entire human race is, in relative terms, evil. The only way in is for the penalty for evil to be paid. However now I am prosyletizing so I will shut up on this point.

If I was Christian I would probably have to assume the Devil was after me, why?
The devil is after you. He hates you because God loves you. Don't flatter yourself that you are worthy of Satan's personal attention however; you are on his radar purely because he sees you as a means of hurting God.

because a 2 thousand year old book says so? I'm pretty sure that even if I believed in religion that I wouldnt take the writting ina book that has been translated thousands of times and has varying versions, as the truth.
A statement so magnificently ill-informed that I am not even going to address it. I've done so many times before in this forum. If you're genuinely interested in discussing this point, rather than just having a pop at a religion you happen not to like, then by all means look up my posts. Just be careful, there are rather a lot of them. :)

I s'pose that by following the bible's teachings you could be in fact harming yourself, after all, not everyone is christian and if there is no afterlife being god fearing for your life achieved very little did it?
If you say so.

However, expressing a belief in things other than the christian way of thinking, causes some people to insist that its all nonsense and a load of old speculative rubbish (which without wanting to cause offence is how I see religion full stop).
Christianity claims to have the only right answer when it comes to ensuring you go to heaven when you die. I am not ashamed of that. I only wish that more people would have the courage of their convictions and stand up for what they believe to be right, rather than indulging in well-meaning 'well it's true for me' type sentiments. It is entirely possible to disagree on something, and believe yourself to be right and another person to be wrong, without being arrogant and without losing the friendship of that person. You just need to be adult about it.

I'm just thankfull that by saying this I wont be cremated alive by the forgiving christian religious figures. I wont be branded a heretic and I am still entriely convinced in an afterlife, that is neither heaven nor hell.
If you believe in an afterlife, then you have a faith. In the broadest possible sense, therefore, it is also fair to say you have a 'religion'.

I, too, am thankful for the freedom of religious expression that now exists in this country. I would like to reassure you that, were you and I living in the middle ages, we would be burned at the stake side by side for our beliefs. A good many Bible-believing Christians were martyred in this way, for speaking out against the state-sponsored parody of their religion.

Bifta
30-11-2004, 17:43
<snip>

http://www.cobbcommunications.org/direction_cobb/may_03/images/match.jpg

And bring them twigs with you, heretic!

Stuart
30-11-2004, 18:43
I would still dispute this "preaching" business.....

If a preacher were to stand at the front of my church and say "I would advise you to seek God" then sat down, I would be disappointed. That would be a pretty naff sermon. Preaching surely is more than a sentence?

Why doesn't anyone harp on about "preaching" when others have suggested that people should buy this computer or watch a particular program on the TV. Are they not "forcing" their views on the rest of the forum?
Maybe it's because you advised the original thread starter to seek God when they merely asked about ouija boards?

Preaching can be more than a sentence, but can also be less. If I said to you "Seek God", I could be said to be preaching.

Interestingly, just looked "Preach" up in the Oxford English Dictionary, and it gives 3 meanings:



deliver a religious address to an assembled group of people.
earnestly advocate (a priniciple)
(preach at) give moral advice to (someone) in a self righteous way

If you consider that belief in God is a principle for a lot of people (I am assuming it is for you - apologies if I am wrong), then you could have been said to be "earnestly advocating" belief in God.

Having said that, the way a lot of people talk about computing could be said to be preachy...

Damien
30-11-2004, 18:50
Why are we arguing about this?

Those of us on the god does not exist god side belive that there is no science, proof or logic in the thought of a god and those on the god side belive that there is a god and this is unshakeable belif.

Religion is not a matter of logic or facts. It is not something that can be proved or disproved. It is a belif in the existance of god and this arguement will not go anywhere because of that

san antonio man
30-11-2004, 19:16
A message for SALU.
If there is a god have u met him?.:angel:

san antonio man
30-11-2004, 19:18
all i can say is i will keep you posted kronas has agreed to have no part in my experiment but if i dont try how will i know?.
so i am ordering my boared today and by monday i will return with some news.
:Yikes:

ikthius
30-11-2004, 19:36
I can't wait for the results.

ik

dilli-theclaw
30-11-2004, 19:38
so i am ordering my boared today and by monday i will return with some news.
:Yikes: I look forward to your results with interest.

If anything weird happens - remember to get pictures.

Russ
30-11-2004, 19:39
so i am ordering my boared today and by monday i will return with some news.

If you DO make contact with any spirits, let's hope they're better at spelling ;) :angel:

Salu
30-11-2004, 23:31
A message for SALU.
If there is a god have u met him?.:angel:

I've not met him as in walking down the street, but I do commune with Him

Russ
30-11-2004, 23:41
I've not met him as in walking down the street

How do you know? Haven't you seen 'Dogma'? :D

ikthius
30-11-2004, 23:48
cool film,

Xaccers
01-12-2004, 01:28
I've not met him as in walking down the street, but I do commune with Him

You know, it's always puzzled me..
How come a religious person can talk to something that isn't visible and people say "that's nice, he's a good person" but a schizophrenic does the same thing and people get scared and call for him to be locked away...
Neither can prove what they are talking to actually exists.
Both can be stopped with various forms of medication.
Interesting

Anyway, ouija boards, done it, had no results, so either my stinky mate put the spirits off or it isn't real.
You know, I'd love to do one with a special glass which has pressure pads where everyone puts their finger, just to check if anyone is actually pushing it

kronas
01-12-2004, 01:32
all i can say is i will keep you posted kronas has agreed to have no part in my experiment but if i dont try how will i know?.
so i am ordering my boared today and by monday i will return with some news.
:Yikes:

there are many reasons for me staying out of this, the storys i have heard, the fact i dont believe that people with no experiance should meddle with such things.


You know, it's always puzzled me..
How come a religious person can talk to something that isn't visible and people say "that's nice, he's a good person" but a schizophrenic does the same thing and people get scared and call for him to be locked away...
Neither can prove what they are talking to actually exists.
Both can be stopped with various forms of medication.
Interesting


:scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Russ
01-12-2004, 10:38
You know, it's always puzzled me..
How come a religious person can talk to something that isn't visible and people say "that's nice, he's a good person" but a schizophrenic does the same thing and people get scared and call for him to be locked away...
Neither can prove what they are talking to actually exists.
Both can be stopped with various forms of medication.
Interesting

Well if anyone can prove I'm a schizophrenic I'll gladly get wheeled off to the local mental health establishment :)

Pierre
01-12-2004, 11:17
I've seen god, and he's one bad ass.......(attachment)

Dave Stones
01-12-2004, 11:51
I've seen god, and he's one bad ass.......(attachment) look at the price though...

£life.s oul

;)

danielf
01-12-2004, 11:52
I've seen god, and he's one bad ass.......(attachment)

Looks like one of Alex's droogs :)

ikthius
01-12-2004, 11:56
he looks like he is very fururistic for an old fella.

a bit extreme marketing with the:
"he IS the kingdom,the power & the glory" (I exageratted the is)

ik

ikthius
01-12-2004, 11:58
"with Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifle & hallowed cloak of invulnarabilty"
from the jesus christ superstore

:D

this is a fantastic find

ik
p.s. have a green one
edit, I have to spread it around first.....apparently, so someone rep him for me please.

Xaccers
01-12-2004, 12:01
Well if anyone can prove I'm a schizophrenic I'll gladly get wheeled off to the local mental health establishment :)

Go on, admit it, you just like the thought of bouncing around in a padded cell :D
It'd be like having your own bouncy castle

dilli-theclaw
01-12-2004, 12:04
Go on, admit it, you just like the thought of bouncing around in a padded cell :D
It'd be like having your own bouncy castle
MMMmmm rubber walls :drool::drool::drool: