Electric boilers

[Chris]

Pardon the Peacheyesque thread title - this is actually a serious question! :D

I've been researching ways of modernising the central heating system at our new house. We are currently heated by an open fire in the living room, which feeds a backboiler and in turn the radiators and hot water. This is effectively cost free, so long as I can chop enough wood to keep the thing going. However, it doesn't allow us to get up to a warm house in the morning, or go out during the day and come home without finding things have become a little cool. This is only a problem when it's particularly cold outside, but winter is coming and I am now living in the Highlands. Last weekend was very chilly!

So, to the point: I have three realistic options. Oil or LPG (both in a tank in the back garden) or electric. Once upon a time, electric meant storage heaters, but now the best option seems to be a 'wet boiler', which heats a radiator system just the same as gas would.

I want to go for electric, to avoid the cost and hassle of getting a tank installed (planning permission, excavation, pouring a concrete plinth, feeder pipes, etc....

Does anybody here have any experience of wet electric central heating? Pitfalls? Good/bad boiler brands?

Come on CF, don't let me down!

[STONEISLAND]

http://www.practicalhelp.org.uk/housing/information/discussion/discussion/index.cfm?ty=1&topic_id=38

This may help.

[Chris]

http://www.practicalhelp.org.uk/housing/information/discussion/discussion/index.cfm?ty=1&topic_id=38

This may help.
Great minds think alike :D I actually read that page this morning (in fact I phoned one of the people who left their number in their post, and he was most helpful). Have a rep anyway. :)

What I'm after now is first-hand experience of using these things, if anyone here has it.

[gary_580]

Wet electic heating is expensive to run, however it is responsive. Must admit i think the pain of getting the oil tank installed etc will be better in the long run

[STONEISLAND]

Storage heaters are a nightmare so dont even think about getting them, I have them and they are no good at all. No control what so ever.

Being honest never heard of "wet electric central heating"

Just know about the above site.

[Chris]

Wet electic heating is expensive to run, however it is responsive. Must admit i think the pain of getting the oil tank installed etc will be better in the long run That's what I thought. However this:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2004/11/4.jpg

...suggests otherwise. It's 2 years out of date and oil has only become more expensive since then. One apparent advantage I have discovered this morning is the Scottish Hydro Economy 10 tariff, designed for wet electric, allowing you to run these things for less than 4p/unit between 0430 and 0730, 1330 and 1630, and 2030 and 0030. The other advantage of the E10 tariff is it is whole-house. Everything you use between those hours is at the lower rate.

*apparently!*

incidentally, the tariff comparison is E7 in the above graphic, but Amptec is a wet electric boiler.

[swoop101]

I remember that my gran used to pile loads of 'slack' (coal dust) on top of the fire when going to bed, so that it kept going very slowly overnight and kept the water warm.

I have seen auto feeders for solid fuel fires,(on discovery channel) but I can't find them :( (might have been for the US only).

[Chris]

I remember that my gran used to pile loads of 'slack' (coal dust) on top of the fire when going to bed, so that it kept going very slowly overnight and kept the water warm.

I have seen auto feeders for solid fuel fires,(on discovery channel) but I can't find them :( (might have been for the US only).
Yep, I've had that recommended to me as a way of keeping the fire burning. The only problem is, if I'm going to buy coal (instead of using wood, which is free until the huge pile outside the house is used up), then I have to compare the cost with other fuels, and coal is expensive (Anthracite, on the grpahic in my previous post, is a smokeless coal).

I remember British Coal advertising auto-feeders way back when. But I don't have a coal-fired boiler as such; it's a back-boiler integrated into the chimney of the fire in the lounge. I don't think I could get a feeder installed (even if I particularly wanted to!)

[swoop101]

well I know that she used wood in the day, so you might be able to limit the cost.

[Salu]

What about underfloor heating?

[altis]

I remember hearing over 20 years ago of someone who worked for one of the electricity boards. He had a well-insulated 500-gallon fuel tank full of water behind his house. At night it was heated by off-peak electricity and during the day it circulated through the radiators. My second-hand information suggests that it worked okay. Sounds like the same kinda idea.

This place might help too:
http://www.est.org.uk/

[skyblueheroes]

A new combi ?

[gary_580]

That's what I thought. However this:

http://www.electroheatplc.co.uk/images/run.jpg

...suggests otherwise. It's 2 years out of date and oil has only become more expensive since then. One apparent advantage I have discovered this morning is the Scottish Hydro Economy 10 tariff, designed for wet electric, allowing you to run these things for less than 4p/unit between 0430 and 0730, 1330 and 1630, and 2030 and 0030. The other advantage of the E10 tariff is it is whole-house. Everything you use between those hours is at the lower rate.

*apparently!*

incidentally, the tariff comparison is E7 in the above graphic, but Amptec is a wet electric boiler.

electricity has gone up a lot recently as well. Also consider why its using E7 electricty? What assumptions did they make as E7 might not be applicable, i certainly dont have my heating on when im in bed asleep. I asssume they heat water at night in that example?

[Chris]

electricity has gone up a lot recently as well. Also consider why its using E7 electricty? What assumptions did they make as E7 might not be applicable, i certainly dont have my heating on when im in bed asleep. I asssume they heat water at night in that example?
I know it's not perfect. In fact, Economy 10 has only been around for a year or so, apparently due to pressure from maufacturers of wet boilers (well, that's what the sales bloke from one of the manufacturers has just told me!). The off-peak hours in E10 are 0430 to 0730, 1330 to 1630 and 2030 to 0030. If anything, that's a whole lot better than E7.

[SMHarman]

I would imagine that the cost is also very much driven by the rest of the system. Our new (well 2 yr old) Megaflow has reduced our heating bills by being so well insulated (the outside is almost room temperature to touch) and having a double helix convection system inside the tank. I would imagine whatever is used to heat that tank will result in a cheaper bill due to the insulation and speed of heat reacharge.

Have you thought of suplimenting your CH with electric UFH. Devi or similar, I don't know what works you might be planning on this property, but this would certainly take the chill off, keep your toes warm and as the heat rises is an effective method of heating, the wall control units can be programmed to operate during the E10 times maximising it's cost effectiveness.

[etccarmageddon]

I remember in my first house (2 bed semi) a few years back which had central heating... I went round next door to discuss something with the woman next door and we were sat in the lounge with one of those mains hot air fans going and the heating off - she explained that they dont turn the heating on and use this instead as it's expensive to run gas central heating! :dunce:

Anyway my point is.... using electricity is normally the most expensive form of energy to heat things up which is why people prefer to heat hot water from the gas supply rather than use the 'emersion' heater.

have you considered using those oil filled plug in electric heaters around the house? you could have that working along side your existing heating.

[Chris]

have you considered using those oil filled plug in electric heaters around the house? We have one of those. I wonder how it compares for efficiency compared to a full central heating system? I'd happily go and buy more of them - one for each room - if it was cheaper. It can't be that simple ... :erm: can it?
Anyone know how I'd calculate it?

[Electrolyte01]

Oil filled radiators are just the same as standard electric heaters I think.

Any one else know? :erm:

[Chris]

Oil filled radiators are just the same as standard electric heaters I think.

Any one else know? :erm: To all intents and purposes, yes they are. I've just looked this up on B&Qs website, where one of its heaters is rated at a max of 1.5kW, and on 'low power' (whatever that is), runs for about 7p per hour. Enough of these to fill an entire house (i.e. nine of them) would therefore cost 56p per hour to run. The info I have seen suggests that a wet electric boiler runs on about 20p per hour.

[paulyoung666]

just a thought here , have you looked into how well the house is insulated , windows doors , draught sealing , loft insulation etc , you may find there are some grants to be had for some of this :)

[etccarmageddon]

To all intents and purposes, yes they are. I've just looked this up on B&Qs website, where one of its heaters is rated at a max of 1.5kW, and on 'low power' (whatever that is), runs for about 7p per hour. Enough of these to fill an entire house (i.e. nine of them) would therefore cost 56p per hour to run. The info I have seen suggests that a wet electric boiler runs on about 20p per hour.

my 2 bed house cost about 15p an hour to heat - it had around 5 radiators running.

the best way to work out how much it costs is to take a meter reading - run the item for an hour and then check meter again. also do the same without the item running and then compare the difference.

remember you might fill your house with 9 heaters but you probably will have then running by thermostatic control and the upstairs ones only on when you're up and downstairs only on during evenings.... etc so your 56p an hour might be a lot lower.

1.5kw does sound a lot though - I think a kettle runs at 3kw which is like running a dozen 250watt lights at the same time?


The info I have seen suggests that a wet electric boiler runs on about 20p per hour

if that's an accurate figure then assuming you run it for 6hours a day you're talking £438 a year. about the same as my gas heating bill.

[Chris]

if that's an accurate figure then assuming you run it for 6hours a day you're talking £438 a year. about the same as my gas heating bill.
One of the manufcturers is indeed claiming that they 'have seen' instances where this is indeed the case. Certainly this would be an absolute best-case scenario, but it's encouraging nevertheless.

[etccarmageddon]

maybe it's worth asking for references from customers who've had this installed. and also go down to the local and ask around what locals use electric for their heating and how much are their bills like.

[paulyoung666]

maybe it's worth asking for references from customers who've had this installed. and also go down to the local and ask around what locals use electric for their heating and how much are their bills like.


good excuse to go to the pub if nothing else :rofl:

[ian@huth]

I think that you should start with Pauls advice by making sure that whatever heat you pay for stays in the house, adding cavity wall insulation to the list. You may be able to get grants. Grants may also be available if you install green heating, solar, heat pump, etc.

If all else fails rent a room out to an OAP and take advantage of Staywarm. :D

[altis]

We have one of those. I wonder how it compares for efficiency compared to a full central heating system? I'd happily go and buy more of them - one for each room - if it was cheaper. It can't be that simple ... :erm: can it?
Anyone know how I'd calculate it?
Electric heaters are always 100% efficient, unlike gas or coal. But to generate the electricity you usually have to burn coal or gas in the first place so, overall, there's not much difference.

Thermal comfort depends on many things apart from air temperature. Check out your library to see if they've anything by P.O.Fanger. There's quite a bit on the web too - try this:
http://boris.uce.ac.uk/resources/LJ/ba103-TComfort.pdf

If you want heat quickly for a short period until the logs get going I'd suggest looking at radiant electric heaters such as quartz halogens. Radiant heat makes you feel warm but doesn't heat up the air.