[Merged] 8Mb ADSL

[ian@huth]

New offering from Ukonline http://www.ukonline.net/8000/

[Ignition]

I think I just emmigrated and didn't notice:

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=1962

In summary though:

8Mbit downstream 400kbps upstream DSL, available to those within approximately 2km of exchange, if too far away a 6Mbit or 4Mbit product will be offered.

£39.99 a month

33:1 contention

Subject to a soft cap of 4GB a day.

Available to 222 exchanges in the UK: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/maps.php?id=40

Available to 4.4 million homes by early next year, if you're on one of the exchanges above available now

Game on! :D

[bopdude]

New offering from Ukonline http://www.ukonline.net/8000/
:drool: we're getting there, only problem is AFAIK with all these higher speeds being available, what about the sites being d/loaded from, are they gonna keep up ?? and another biggie is the cables / services infrastructure, surely only a lucky few could make use of this :shrug: But like I said, were getting there :tu:

[bopdude]

Just started talikng about it here :D (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=20150)

[jtwn]

/cries

My only hope is for ntl to compete with this offer.

[ian@huth]

If higher speed connections are available it might prompt service providers to produce content that makes use of the speed. No company is going to spend money on content that nobody has the speed to access properly.

[Caspar]

What about upload tho! 8MB download with only 400k upload :(

[ian@huth]

To repeat my earlier + moved post :p

I think I just emmigrated and didn't notice:

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=1962

In summary though:

8Mbit downstream 400kbps upstream DSL, available to those within approximately 2km of exchange, if too far away a 6Mbit or 4Mbit product will be offered.

£39.99 a month

33:1 contention

Subject to a soft cap of 4GB a day.

Available to 222 exchanges in the UK: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/maps.php?id=40

Available to 4.4 million homes by early next year, if you're on one of the exchanges above available now http://www.ukonline.net/8000/llu_exchangelist.php

Game on! :D


Beat you by 3 minutes :D but you put it over much better than I did. :)

[jtwn]

Can anybody point me to a list of exchanges which may be up for unbundling in the future/planned by easynet.

[Ignition]

Can anybody point me to a list of exchanges which may be up for unbundling in the future/planned by easynet.

Ummm put your details into their availability checker + see what it says.

[jtwn]

Already done that, knew that my exchange wasnt unbundled (its not even adsl enabled :p: ) didn't give me anything on the future either, just to register my interest.

Nevermind, the future isn't bright for lincolnshire, BT seemed to of just forgotten us. :shrug:

[DrAwesome]

One thing to note: Not the usual 3 month cancelation contract that the majority of Adsl isp have.

If you are a Broadband Services customer, the minimum term of your Agreement with us for the Broadband Services is 12 months.
But..... my local BT exchange is in line of sight, the soft cap of 4GB a day is much better/more realistic (not that i will constantly use it, but its nice to have a decent overdraft so to speak) than NTL's new BB tiers, as for 400k upload well i can live with that, & a contension ratio of 33:1 wont bother me either.

[Ignition]

One thing to note: Not the usual 3 month cancelation contract that the majority of Adsl isp have.


But..... my local BT exchange is in line of sight, the soft cap of 4GB a day is much better/more realistic (not that i will constantly use it, but its nice to have a decent overdraft so to speak) than NTL's new BB tiers, as for 400k upload well i can live with that, & a contension ratio of 33:1 wont bother me either.

*shakes head*

No.... I... will.... not.... agree.... with.... Awesome.....

Ah to hell with it, agreed! :p:

Simply amazing if you are on an exchange that can get it, and one would hope this sends a strong disruption through the UK market, resulting in better services for all.

[Neil]

Simply amazing if you are on an exchange that can get it, and one would hope this sends a strong disruption through the UK market, resulting in better services for all.

Can't argue with that! :tu:

[TheBlueRaja]

Whooot - i may be able to get this in my new pad - screw going with Zen...

[altis]

Of course 8mbps is easily capable of transporting any TV channel and most DVDs too.

Wonders how long it will be before these operators start offering all sorts of TV, VoD and VoIP like HomeChoice (http://www.homechoice.co.uk/intro_hc.html) - neatly sidestepping the need to install any underground cable?

[ian@huth]

Of course 8mbps is easily capable of transporting any TV channel and most DVDs too.

Wonders how long it will be before these operators start offering all sorts of TV, VoD and VoIP like HomeChoice (http://www.homechoice.co.uk/intro_hc.html) - neatly sidestepping the need to install any underground cable?

That may be so but just think how fat the pipes would have to be if everyone chose that method of viewing and what the quality would be like if they all did it at the same time.

[ProfPete]

But demand will lead development, including higher bandwidth services, better backbones, and in the case of video, multicasting.

I can also see a lot of more localised services turning up. We're already toying with community TV here...

[altis]

That may be so but just think how fat the pipes would have to be if everyone chose that method of viewing and what the quality would be like if they all did it at the same time.
This is not a problem. I suggest they might do it using one or more HDDs at the exchange/headend for VoD and either multicast-IP or as now (fibre and / or satellite) for TV. Multicasting allows each backhaul packet to be distributed to any number of users simultaneously.

[Ignition]

This is not a problem. I suggest they might do it using one or more HDDs at the exchange/headend for VoD and either multicast-IP or as now (fibre and / or satellite) for TV. Multicasting allows each backhaul packet to be distributed to any number of users simultaneously.

Which is exactly how HomeChoice do it. Multicast compatible DSLAMs.

[Tuftus]

ONLY 4GB a day????

That will never be enough!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[themelon]

Im not convinced about 8Mb ADSL working for many.

I can bareley get 512kb to work up to speed and I live 3 miles from the exchange.

ADSL Seems great if you live next door to the exchange, but what percentage of people are lucky enough to have that privilage.

DSL TV............mmmmmmmmmmmm........I would be Interested to see what would happen to that if it became mass market. I works pretty well for Homechoice, Kingston but what would happen if 50000 people in a city decided to download a movie? Sureley it would be screwed much the same as when 50000 people decide to download a movie off the net! And again, how many would actually be able to recieve it in a supossedly 'Broadband' area?

[altis]

http://www.point-topic.com/content/bmm/profiles/video+on+demand.htm&comp_id=783

[Charlie_Bubble]

Haha Saw this on the BBC website, went there, stuck my details in and it's going to be available to me in February. Just about the time my pipex year is up, so I have preregistered! :)

I live about 700metres from my exchange too! :D

[DeadKenny]

and what was that argument about ADSL taking it's time upgrading speeds? ;)


UKOnline's 8Mbps service comes to my exchange in February (being based on EasyNet's LLU) and the cost will be the same as I pay for PlusNet's 2Mbps :D

Puts NTL's upgraded speeds to shame.

[themelon]

and what was that argument about ADSL taking it's time upgrading speeds? ;)


UKOnline's 8Mbps service comes to my exchange in February (being based on EasyNet's LLU) and the cost will be the same as I pay for PlusNet's 2Mbps :D

Puts NTL's upgraded speeds to shame.

Not really

You need to live 2 km from the exchange to be able to recieve this.

Anywhere on the Digital Cable Network can recieve 3Mbs or 4Mbs (Telewest).

Its unlikely that people 4km from the exchange can even recieve 1mbs properly! I know sure as hell I cant!

The majority of ADSL Users are stuck on 512kbs for the foreseeable future, until something is done to overcome the degrading service over distance issues.

[sav112]

I was happy with the news NTL were giving me 1 MB BB for the same old price as my 300K. Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m now just jealous because I live in Glasgow and thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s some package on offer. 8MB I think is a bit over the top, I have no use for it but that does not stop me wanting it.



Great to see such a leap forward in a BB service, Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ll tell you what if I had an extra £15 a month to pump in to my BB I think Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d get it.

[Ignition]

Not really

You need to live 2 km from the exchange to be able to recieve this.

Anywhere on the Digital Cable Network can recieve 3Mbs or 4Mbs (Telewest).

Its unlikely that people 4km from the exchange can even recieve 1mbs properly! I know sure as hell I cant!

The majority of ADSL Users are stuck on 512kbs for the foreseeable future, until something is done to overcome the degrading service over distance issues.

2Mbps is reachable to about 60% of users on an ADSL enabled exchange, 1Mbps is available to over 90%.

Due to the density of the population surrounding the exchanges this service will be available in UKOnline estimate approximately 50% of users will be able to reach 8Mbps, those who can't their lines will rate adapt to the highest possible downstream that line conditions will allow.

Here's a link showing mapping of line length (not distance as crow flies) from exchange and the up and downstream speeds theoretically available with various impediments to signal quality under ADSL 1 G.DMT.

http://www.dslforum.org/aboutdsl/Technical_Reports/TR-048.pdf

[slowcoach]

I live1 mile from the exchange (as the crow flies) so in theory I should be in the 90% reachable group for 1MB/s ADSL yet my max under extended reach was 512 KB/s, this is the difference between theory and practice.

These percentages have probably been arrived at in the laboratory in ideal conditions rather than under the variable line conditions in different areas of the country.

At least with Cable I can order, and receive, 1.5 MB/s without having to live next door to the exchange.

When you have been through the steps 3 times to upgrade your 512 KB/s ADSL and failed 3 times you begin to look at these new advertised speeds and the percentage of people who they will be available for, with a jaundiced view.

The new ADSL speeds appear to me to be more a reaction to the planned Cable speed increases, with companies trying to lure in new customers for the Christmas connection rush more than anything else.

An ADSL line would have to be perfect to avoid loosing connection every few minutes at these higher speeds and we all know that the old telephone system is far from perfect even for voice calls.

Reading the responses in this Forum you get the impression that members think these speeds will be theirs for the asking, even though many members must live even further from their local telephone exchange than I do.

Steam Radio will never be able to compete no matter how much it is tweaked. :zzz:

[DeadKenny]

I live1 mile from the exchange (as the crow flies) so in theory I should be in the 90% reachable group for 1MB/s ADSL yet my max under extended reach was 512 KB/s, this is the difference between theory and practice.
No, that's down to understanding the difference between "as the crow flies" and the real line length. There's no in theory about it, you must be a lot longer distance from the exchange than you thought so you're not in the 90% group.


At least with Cable I can order, and receive, 1.5 MB/s without having to live next door to the exchange.
I could order and receive it, but it was never reliable. The reason being that the line quality was crap. Maybe affected by distance too I don't know. With NTL they don't care about the line quality, they just connect the cable and leave without checking any signals. With BT they put limits and actually admit that your line may not be good enough to receive the service you want. If NTL did that, it would probably save a vast amount of money wasted on pointless call outs to fix lines that are unfixable.


The new ADSL speeds appear to me to be more a reaction to the planned Cable speed increases, with companies trying to lure in new customers for the Christmas connection rush more than anything else.
No, just a progression of technology. This 8Mbps service has nothing to do with BT, being LLU, and they can offer speeds that the technology can actually cope with. If the length of the line is too long it's reduced to 6, 4 or 2Mbps, but you're guaranteed 2Mbps. If anything UK Online are competing with the likes of Bullldog, not the cable companies (who tend to have a monopoly in cabled areas anyway as most people automatically go for cable with the assumption that it must be better). Also, UK Online are not competing with cable in non-cabled areas. Their coverage is far greater than cable can ever reach.

It's worth pointing out that as "wonderful" as cable is deemed to be, NTL are investing in expanding their network using LLU ADSL. It's cheaper for them and more reliable. Eventually the majority of NTL/Telewest customers will be accessing the internet through ADSL.

An ADSL line would have to be perfect to avoid loosing connection every few minutes at these higher speeds and we all know that the old telephone system is far from perfect even for voice calls.
I've not lost connection on my ADSL for a month now. Not once. My cable modem would drop connection every day. In some cases it wouldn't regain connection for hours. With NTL, your line also has to be perfect to avoid losing connection every few minutes.

It's also a myth that cable is modern and advanced to an extent that it doesn't suffer from the problems that the POTS does. Most of the cable is 10 to 20 years old and was designed for analogue TV. If you remember the analogue cable days you may have noticed that a lot of people's cable reception was not actually as great as people assumed it would be. Mine was grainy and had interference and I'd seen the same in other's houses. Only if the cable was in good condition was it fine. For broadband the cable works on a broadcast system on the downstream much like the old coax Ethernet cables and we all know how problematic that was (collisions of traffic, interference and major problems if a connection was unterminated, all of these are symptoms on cable). With ADSL you get a dedicated connection down copper wire, and regardless of the age of the wire, it's surprisingly reliable, plus it's far more resistant to rot and being eaten by things in the ground.

This is all of course before even considering the roll out of ADSL2/2+.

Reading the responses in this Forum you get the impression that members think these speeds will be theirs for the asking, even though many members must live even further from their local telephone exchange than I do.
It's clearly stated on UK Online's site that you may not get the full 8Mbps, but you should get a minimum of 2Mbps. The majority will get between 6 and 8Mbps though.

[orangebird]

<snip>


It's clearly stated on UK Online's site that you may not get the full 8Mbps, but you should get a minimum of 2Mbps. The majority will get between 6 and 8Mbps though.


So, would you be happy then if you could only get 2Mbps for the same money as someone a couple of yards closer to the exchange getting 6 or 8?

[DeadKenny]

So, would you be happy then if you could only get 2Mbps for the same money as someone a couple of yards closer to the exchange getting 6 or 8?
Maybe not, but then if you lived in an area where BT will only give you 512kbps, you'd be quite happy to pay £40 to get 2Mbps (in fact I'm paying £40 for 2Mbps, though that is uncapped ;)).

[slowcoach]

Maybe not, but then if you lived in an area where BT will only give you 512kbps, you'd be quite happy to pay £40 to get 2Mbps (in fact I'm paying £40 for 2Mbps, though that is uncapped ;)).But I can't get 2Mbps in fact I couldn't even get 1Mbps, just because someone else is sending me the signal doesn't alter the fact that my line is bad, but then I wouldn't know this if I hadn't tried to upgrade to 1Mbps and I would be thinking that I am in line for 8Mbps, a lot of people will be thinking this after reading the announcement, and most will be disappointed. It's one thing for people with high speed ADSL to sing it's praises but they are always going to be in a minority until a system is invented which can travel over lines irrespective of their condition or until more local exchanges are built to cut down the line distances.

I wouldn't have moved from ADSL if I could have been sure that I wouldn't be stuck at 512Kbps for the rest of my life, having made the move to Cable I know I made the right choice every time I use the phone and can actually hear what the other party is saying, I just have to get into the habit of not having to shout down the phone anymore, the 3x, soon to be 6x faster BB speed is a bonus.
I'm just glad I at least had the choice of Cable available to me and I really feel for those people who live outside a Cable area.

[ian@huth]

No, just a progression of technology. This 8Mbps service has nothing to do with BT, being LLU, and they can offer speeds that the technology can actually cope with. If the length of the line is too long it's reduced to 6, 4 or 2Mbps, but you're guaranteed 2Mbps. If anything UK Online are competing with the likes of Bullldog, not the cable companies (who tend to have a monopoly in cabled areas anyway as most people automatically go for cable with the assumption that it must be better). Also, UK Online are not competing with cable in non-cabled areas. Their coverage is far greater than cable can ever reach.


Don't forget that it is the "last mile" that determines what speed you can get and that is provided by BT. If BT can only deliver 512k then it is highly unlikely that any other ISP can deliver much more, if any more. A guaranteed 2Mb would be impossible, LLU or not. Remember too that upload speed is affected by distance. How do you think you would fare with that?

[DeadKenny]

I'm just glad I at least had the choice of Cable available to me and I really feel for those people who live outside a Cable area.
Similarly though with those who live in a Cabled area but can't get ADSL for one reason or another. Their only choice is to go with the one cable company or get satellite broadband.

I'm glad I live in an area where I have choice between cable and ADSL. Turns out for me ADSL was the right choice as it works perfectly, whereas my NTL cable never worked right. Being on ADSL I now have choice of ISPs (and that includes NTL even via ADSL, and more so in the future if they do an LLU install at the exchange).

[Gareth]

woot - good news ...even if it's not available here. Competition is a good thing, and can only result in UK Online's competitors being forced to look closely at their offerings to determine whether they are still relevant.

[Gareth]

Oh, and is anyone currently living in Bath or Bristol prepared to house-swap for my nice little place in Swindon...? :D

[Regalrip]

Was Hugely excited about the 8Mbits line. Contacted Ukonline and found out I was in the Exchange Area. WHOOOHA.

BUT then

I noted after allot of emails to the Support team.

"8Mbps is the maximum download speed - although this depends on how far you are from the exchange and our contention ratio."

Now we all know that, But Thatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s not all

"However we run port-blocking on all of our broadband services in order to maintain quality of service for all of our customers, so you will not be able to run a mail or web server. We block ports 25, 80, 8080 and 3128."

Whatâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the use of having 8Mbps and they block all the ports!!!!!!

You however wont find this on the Website. So BEWARE.
__________________

War doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t determine whoââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s right but whoââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s left.

[TheBlueRaja]

Nothing much wrong with that - they only block ports which are used if you want to run a web server on your machine or a mail server on your machine, which seems acceptable concidering what you get.

You will still be able to run P2P stuff for example.

You dont know how good they are for newsgroup access do you?

Welcome to the site by the way... :welcome:

[DeadKenny]

You however wont find this on the Website. So BEWARE.
It's in their FAQ...

http://support.ukonline.net/support_faqdetail.asp?location=ukonlinebroadband&id=551&faqid=50&faqname=General+Broadband+Questions


Another interesting one from...

http://support.ukonline.net/support_faqdetail.asp?location=ukonlinebroadband&id=530&faqid=66&faqname=UK+Online+Broadband+8000

"We advise customers to use the equipment that we supply as we cannot guarantee service levels if you use your own equipment."

[Regalrip]

Thx Kenny , Missed that one.

Thats not on,

"We advise customers to use the equipment that we supply as we cannot guarantee service levels if you use your own equipment."

[mrlipring]

Thx Kenny , Missed that one.

Thats not on,

"We advise customers to use the equipment that we supply as we cannot guarantee service levels if you use your own equipment."

why's it not on? EVERY company will have that. They don't support hardware they didn't supply. It'll work. You and I know it will work. They just don't want people buying some crappy cheap as chips router, or piecing together a network out of incompatible components, THEN phoning tech support to moan. Literally, every isp will have something similar to that statement. If you're of the inclination to set up a home network with hand-picked components, you should be sensible enough to make sure everything will play together nicely, so for most people there won't be a problem using non-official hardware.

[Stuart]

and what was that argument about ADSL taking it's time upgrading speeds? ;)


UKOnline's 8Mbps service comes to my exchange in February (being based on EasyNet's LLU) and the cost will be the same as I pay for PlusNet's 2Mbps :D

Puts NTL's upgraded speeds to shame.

How long will it take UKOnline to roll out 8Meg nationally? Their advertised speed is fine if you can get it.

BTW, in my area UKOnline is not competitive at all. They can only offer a 1 meg connection. Even the BT broadband checker says I should be able to recieve a 2 Meg connection.

And I live less than half a mile from the exchange (it's actually in the next street, so I would be suprised if the distance on the network was much further).

[DeadKenny]

BT are to trial upgrades on the 2Mbps lines to turn them into 8Mbps lines (and this isn't LLU either!), and they're also begining ADSL2+ trials.

Obviously it is all related to how far you are from the exchange etc, but then that's exactly the same with cable in terms of if you are outside a cable area (i.e. big town or city), you can't get cable, end of story. A rural area may get crap ADSL, but it's far better than no cable.

[daxx]

useful post from the wayback machine (search thingy) for finding your physical (down the wires) distance from the exchange http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=285133&postcount=85

The thread as a whole still makes interesting reading in the light of the current announcements

[DeadKenny]

The exchange search feature at www.samknows.com is an excellent resource for finding out where your exchange is. Doesn't tell you the line length but has some interesting information on the exchange.

[Neil]

Looks like Pipex will be joining the 8Mb party too....

For the more experienced or heavier users of broadband services the new PIPEX Solo range includes the keenly priced 1 Mbps and 2Mbps unlimited services. With speeds of up to 8Mbps available from late Spring (on a limited trial basis), coupled with the end user speed boost technology already being used by PIPEX customers, broadband services of tomorrow are being brought by PIPEX to customers today.

Also....

Unlimited users given the World for Free.

PIPEX is one of the few remaining ISPs to offer truly unlimited broadband, PIPEX Solo, with no usage limits, no caps and no lock-ins*. Prices now start from just £14.99 per month.

www.solo.pipex.net

[Bifta]

Looks like Pipex will be joining the 8Mb party too....



Also....



www.solo.pipex.net

No lockins = pay us the activation fee if you leave within 12 months.

[Stuart]

Unlimited users given the World for Free.

PIPEX is one of the few remaining ISPs to offer truly unlimited broadband, PIPEX Solo, with no usage limits, no caps and no lock-ins*. Prices now start from just £14.99 per month.

www.solo.pipex.net

At first that looks like a good deal, but then I looked a bit further..

For a start, the £14.99 is actually 250K. If you are willing to spend £5 a month more, you do get four times the speed, but with a 2 Gig cap. Still at least you do have the choice of capped or uncapped.

Still, Assuming NTL's cap in not going to be a problem, 2Meg uncapped (as offered by Solo2000) looks rather expensive. 2 Meg for slightly less than what NTL are offering 3 Meg for?

[Bifta]

At first that looks like a good deal, but then I looked a bit further..

For a start, the £14.99 is actually 250K. If you are willing to spend £5 a month more, you do get four times the speed, but with a 2 Gig cap. Still at least you do have the choice of capped or uncapped.

Still, Assuming NTL's cap in not going to be a problem, 2Meg uncapped (as offered by Solo2000) looks rather expensive. 2 Meg for slightly less than what NTL are offering 3 Meg for?

Hopefully 8 meg will be the same price as 2 though with Pipex probably offering it "unlimited" they'll slap a premium on it instead, I'd be quite happy with a reasonable cap if they lowered their prices in line with say .. plus.net

[ynwa]

At first that looks like a good deal, but then I looked a bit further..

For a start, the £14.99 is actually 250K. If you are willing to spend £5 a month more, you do get four times the speed, but with a 2 Gig cap. Still at least you do have the choice of capped or uncapped.

Still, Assuming NTL's cap in not going to be a problem, 2Meg uncapped (as offered by Solo2000) looks rather expensive. 2 Meg for slightly less than what NTL are offering 3 Meg for?

Uncapped 2mb for cheaper than what NTL currently offer a Capped 1.5 seems like a good deal to me.

[zitianaki]

http://www.freedom2surf.net/adsl/8mbit.php


and them

[ian@huth]

http://www.freedom2surf.net/adsl/8mbit.php


and themYou have to register your interest for 8Mb for the trials which will commence in April. There are only 2,000 trial places available across a limited number of ISPs and a limited number of exchanges so the chances of being a triallist are pretty slim. They are non existant if BT is your ISP as all their places are reserved for BT staff. Then in around six months time, if the trials are successful they will start rolling out 8Mb. I suppose when they do start rolling it out there will be chaos on the ADSL forums from all the users who didn't get it at 00:01am on the first day. :)

[Florence]

It now looks like NDO are about to venture into the faster speeds but what really interested me was his quote further down the thread on their forums in reply to a request on upload speeds.

Quoted by Sam on NDO forums.
The current prposal is that ultimately yes with the changes in how ADSL is deployed by Bt in the UK upstreams should enventually increase upto a maximum of 768k; but it will depend on a lot of factors including line quailty and ADSL will be geared to favour the downstream over more upstream...

But this isnt something that will happen that quickly, talking about more some time in the next 12 to 24 months in reality.

More can be read here on the NDO users forums (http://www.ndousers.com/cgi-bin/cutecast.pl?session=QogJACk8CObKbS5Zl8O87hA5cK&action=&forum=1&thread=1370&user=&query=&msgid=&page=&sort=&do=&key=&others=)

[Ignition]

Upstreams will be 400k on the standard products (ATM synch rate approx 450kbps) and there will be a full upstream option for businesses and those who wish to fork out a bit extra.

Line quality won't really be that much of an issue - if you can hit 4Mbit on the downstream generally you'll be able to manage 768k up.

LMFAO @ this though: Access to the most reliable and fastest Network in the world

Someone should mention to Pipex that they shouldn't be passing off UUNet / MCI's network as their own anymore ;) the Pipex authentication server was brought to its' knees by failure of a single network component a few months ago (thankfully just after I left). Their speed demonstration is nonsense as well, my 2Mbit certainly doesn't do 409kB/s.

[Stuart]

Uncapped 2mb for cheaper than what NTL currently offer a Capped 1.5 seems like a good deal to me.

But, that's IF your line can take 2Mb speed reliably, and IF NTL haven't upgraded your area yet.

[Shaun]

Looks like things are hotting up in the LLU stakes. 8Mbit now down to £29.99 a month from UKOnline: http://www.adslguide.org/newsarchive.asp?item=2190

Thats the same as I pay Bulldog for 2Mbit!!!!!!!!!

[zing_deleted]

Its costed out at £29.99 on ukonline website and its coming to my town end of this month woo hoo

[zing_deleted]

With the new price when it comes i can have 8 meg bb 2 phone lines (keep ntl and pay bt monthly) for the massive sum of £2 more than im paying ntl,does not take a genius to work out what ill be doing :)

[Hans Gruber]

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=2194

Looks like Ukonline are now doing 512k for £9.99 and 2mbit for £19.99, and did I mention they're uncapped? :p

Whoever said the future was metered broadband? :D

Only downside is that it's currently only on LLU exchanges, but one hell of a step in the right direction.

[obvious]

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=2194

Looks like Ukonline are now doing 512k for £9.99 and 2mbit for £19.99, and did I mention they're uncapped? :p

Whoever said the future was metered broadband? :D

Only downside is that it's currently only on LLU exchanges, but one hell of a step in the right direction.

You're not wrong !

http://tinyurl.com/5okkq

[zing_deleted]

My area got activated for 8 meg today,called bt and i gotta wait 2 weeks for an engineer in 3 weeks i'll be on 8meg,Im only 2.6k from exchange Following the the roads,they tell me ill nearly get the full 8 meg.Oh how my impatience is killing me lol lol lol

[ian@huth]

My area got activated for 8 meg today,called bt and i gotta wait 2 weeks for an engineer in 3 weeks i'll be on 8meg,Im only 2.6k from exchange Following the the roads,they tell me ill nearly get the full 8 meg.Oh how my impatience is killing me lol lol lolTime will tell. What if all the power users in the area all decide to go for it as well? How often do you think you will get nearly the full 8 meg then? :)

[zing_deleted]

the 8 meg speed does not really matter to me,what does matter is 500 gig cap i wont come anywhere near but I wont have to worry :) £10 cheaper than capped ntl so even if most the time I only get 3 meg im still loads better off :D

[ian@huth]

You might not get anything like the 8Mb if all the power users join you on the service and the 500Gb is meaningless if your connection crawls along at dialup speed. 50:1 contention can be pretty harsh if there are a lot of really heavy users hard at work.

[zing_deleted]

33 to 1 contention on ukonline

[Paul]

Node4 are offering 8Mbit ADSL on a 20:1 contention for £149 per month in Nottingham - the upstream is crap though, only 256Kbit.

[ian@huth]

33 to 1 contention on ukonlineSo it is. Still doesn't take that many users going full pelt to slow it down. ;)

[garyparson]

Don't forget that you have to be reasonably close to the exchange and as one person mentioned in another thread that cuts a lot of people out so you'd have to be pretty unlucky to be bundled with a bunch of hardcore downloaders in your little area round the exchange.

I hope UK Online thrives from companies that treat their customers like fools.

[Stuart]

Don't forget that you have to be reasonably close to the exchange and as one person mentioned in another thread that cuts a lot of people out so you'd have to be pretty unlucky to be bundled with a bunch of hardcore downloaders in your little area round the exchange.

I hope UK Online thrives from companies that treat their customers like fools.
I doubt you'd have to have them in your little area. You'd just need enough within the total area (not just your little bit) to swamp the exchange's backhaul connection to the network.

If UK online takes off then that MAY be a problem in some areas.

Anyway, I will repeat my little bit of advice to anyone who has problems with NTL's cap. If you can, go to an ADSL supplier. UK online is looking pretty good, but even if they are not, there are plenty of ADSL suppliers out there. This is exactly what I am going to do if the cap causes me problems (or if NTL don't get their ar$es in gear and launch a PVR, but that's another story).

I've said it before, and I am going to say it again. If enough people leave NTL, they will get the hint that something is wrong. All the while that the number of customers joining is greater than the number leaving, they'll just put it down to customer churn (I think it's called).

[zoombini]

A list (attached) of what exchanges & when they are due to be upgraded has just been released by Plusnet.

Although this is for the 2mb upgrade initially, it is the same equipment etc.

[zing_deleted]

I agree totally with what scastle said there,Thats why im leaving im just lucky ukonline are in my area now and i dont have to wait,The cap will not be a problem for a lot of people but some and not all heavy users will have to keep an eye on what there doing ,that will take half the fun out of the net i think.

[Ignition]

A list (attached) of what exchanges & when they are due to be upgraded has just been released by Plusnet.

Although this is for the 2mb upgrade initially, it is the same equipment etc.

Sorry Zoomy that's completely irrelevant and relates to a completely different program which is of BT upgrading all users to 2Mbps connections between themselves and their exchange, and ISPs controlling the end user's speed they pay for at ISP side equipment.

The MaxDSL trials are a seperate issue entirely, and are still currently just running on a handful of exchanges with no schedule announced to expand these.

[zing_deleted]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/07/bt_isp_roundup/ Am i right in assuming that Bt are trialing 8meg using current adsl architecture without using LLu or am i totally off track?

[zoombini]

Oh soz, perhaps a mod might like to put it into the correct thread (I have no idea where). or remove it then.

[zitianaki]

Great news! UK Online Broadband 8000 is available in your area.

You can receive the service and should be able to achieve up to 8Mb download speeds.


sounds good to me, even though after so long of waiting on the 2Mb unlike ntl they have no migration so basically they put you on bt's exchange until ukonline are enabled in your area. which then means at the moment you cannot upgrade to the 8MB until mid next month when they have a system to upgrade you from bt. sucks dont it. its available to you and at the same time its not haha. of course if you cancle the 12 month contract u have to pay them so no way round it. but definatly worth the wait 29.99 for such fast speeds

[Ignition]

Great news! UK Online Broadband 8000 is available in your area.

You can receive the service and should be able to achieve up to 8Mb download speeds.


sounds good to me, even though after so long of waiting on the 2Mb unlike ntl they have no migration so basically they put you on bt's exchange until ukonline are enabled in your area. which then means at the moment you cannot upgrade to the 8MB until mid next month when they have a system to upgrade you from bt. sucks dont it. its available to you and at the same time its not haha. of course if you cancle the 12 month contract u have to pay them so no way round it. but definatly worth the wait 29.99 for such fast speeds

Your copper pair has to be rejumpered from the BT linecard and DSLAM to the Easynet owned one unfortunately, and at the moment there is no process in place for BT Wholesale to do this in one hit, it has to be done as a cease / reprovide rather than a simple migration.

Good for you though sir, wish I could get it! Groundbreaking deal by any stretch.

[zitianaki]

thanks, i happen to agree after all this waiting its finally available to me :angel:
and even better they think ill get full 8Mb i seen alot of posts where they say you wont get 8Mb but 4Mb so it could be worse. waiting an extra month is worth it.... but i had no idea they would use bt to give me the services so its like im with bt not ukonline .....

[zitianaki]

so anwyays i was talking to a fellow ukonline user and he did a speed test for me... he is on the 8Mb now so for those who are intrested

Direction Actual Speed True Speed (estimated)
Downstream 2644 Kbps (330.5 KB/sec) 2855 Kbps (inc. overheads)
Upstream 432 Kbps (54.0 KB/sec) 466 Kbps (inc. overheads)


this is what he sent me... not sure how close to exchange he is but am finding out.. intresting to see speed tests :)

[Ignition]

That looks like about 3Mbps download (actual DSL synch rate, not usable rate) and full 512k upload synch.

[Hans Gruber]

I wouldn't mind that upload speed!

[zing_deleted]

My order goes into tomorrow and because im close enough to the exchange they think ill get full speed :)

[zitianaki]

most definatly worth it. i got the 8Mb now i am 2.2km away from exchange and i always get full download speed, maxes out at 960kbytes which is perfect. how close are you to the exchange? ive seen bad reviews of the isp people live closer then 1km and they have bad service from ukonlie less them 2MBit i guess the area most demand for the 8Mbit get slower services as to many on it good thing to wait that bit extra and be in a area not in much demand for it :D

i think cambridge is one of the main city's where ukonline is based so i read on bbc web site

[zing_deleted]

2.8 k im expecting most of the 8 meg :)

[Ignition]

most definatly worth it. i got the 8Mb now i am 2.2km away from exchange and i always get full download speed, maxes out at 960kbytes which is perfect.

Really?

Considering that the 8Mbit is actually about 7.2 once the ATM overheads are gone I think there's a little over-enthusiasm there.

The 8Mbit refers to the ATM rate, there's about 10% that has to be lost in ATM headers, not including the IP headers, PPP overhead, TCP overheads, etc, so 800+kbit of that 8Mbit won't even touch your network card / PC, let alone be usable!

Fastest UKOnline download I've seen is about 860, most sustained I've seen is around the 820-830kB mark, which is about right. No-one can get near to 960 it is quite literally impossible.

I really hope you're not going to say to me 'you must be wrong because that's what I get' it isn't and we both know this. 8Mbit cable you'd see 960, 8Mbit (ATM rate) DSL no chance.

http://www.speedtest.ndo.com/results.php?kbps=6740.5&downloadtime=3.646&KB=3000&recorded=1

Is a regular speed.

6.7Mbps, about 1.25Mbps lost in overheads, about right considering the NDO test does a slight overestimate, claims my 2Mbit DSL can do 239.7kB/s which it can't, best it does is 235 or so.

[zitianaki]

it doesent stay on 960kbytes for very long sometimes about a minute on average i get 840kbytes thats what it sticks at most the time but maxes at 960 for a few mins at most but at like 3am. Cable is faster, maybe one day if bt ever install fibre networks it will go same speed as cable.


few ppl getting bad reviews on ukonline

by Anonymous on Feb 28, 2005 - 01:22 PM I am a new user of the UKOnline 8000 service. I am less than 1km cable length from my local exchange.

To UKOnline and Zen Internet's credit the migration was quick and easy.

However, the internet connection has been very poor so far. Connection speeds are occasionally 6Mbit, but degrade very quickly. The supplied modem/router device quickly crashes, despite running a linux OS, and fails to respond to a barrage of pings.

I have updated the actiontec modem firmware.

I have spoken to UKonline, they have been quick to answer the phone and have not dismissed the problem. Initial response was to reduce the line speed to 7Mbit, because there was some noise on the line. Today I hear that this problem is not uncommon and they are looking at providing static IP addresses to all 8000 customers.

They also offered to refund subscription paid to date.



Also this guy 2.7km away from exchange claims he is getting less then 2Mbit and having worse then 56k modem, though when i tried using wireless i got crap it went so slow nothing would work i think that guy was trying to use wireless. I guess it same with ntl i had perfect services and others had crap, same with my 8Mbit ukonline the speeds are great, will probably go back with ntl once adsl2+ comes out if the price/cap is right, fibre network faster speeds sounds good to me :) unless ukonline go fibre before then.

[Ignition]

<snip>

Thanks for clarifying your remarks and providing an honest viewpoint rather than being a fanboy :tu:

[zitianaki]

Thats ok, alot of good and bad reviews i found all the bad ones first before i left for ukonline the unlucky ones in the busy areas maybe ukonline knew them places would have the most problems.....

[zitianaki]

tw pdf files shwoing trials of 10Mb. wonder what the upload will be

[zing_deleted]

Im really cheesed off
ukonline were ment to have got my modem to me yesterday
There customer services are useless its an 0845 number last night I waited 1.5 hours on it and got nowhere,now im waiting and have been for another hour,I will demand compo but its besides the point,if something goes wrong I will not be able to get in tough,Ive made a serious blunder entrusting ukonline I will not recommend it to anyone

[zitianaki]

wow thats the first ive had of bad services like that. they send you a email with a tracking system u enter details and shwos u where the router/modem is mine got to me after the 10th working day hope u have better luck today. hopefully the services will make up for the bad start you had :)

[zing_deleted]

wow thats the first ive had of bad services like that. they send you a email with a tracking system u enter details and shwos u where the router/modem is mine got to me after the 10th working day hope u have better luck today. hopefully the services will make up for the bad start you had :)
was told it would be here before my line was activated,alledgedly my line was activated yesterday.No one answers the cs phone line im sure they would leave me on a loop infinately if i let them,I will be demanding compansation for this,As the modem is not here and they have had no signature I am seriously contemplating telling them to stuff it,the only problem then will be getting a mac release so i can look elsewhere

[zitianaki]

your order went in 28th April ( if your previous post was correct, when you said you will be ordering tomorrow), 10 working days from then is the 12th May shouldent expect it so soon after its sent out weekends dont count dont forget,... still early for u to be getting the modem... If you dont get it at thursday ill be suprized but before then i doubt it, mine took 10 working days exactly on the 10th day there is was :D felt like forever at the time but before i knew it i was on ukonline, though i dident like the fact for mirc users it messes up dcc sends, i just used port fowarding for that. dunno if u use mirc or ever use dcc sending, i rarely use it but nice to know it works :)

my line was also enabled before the modem got to me

[zing_deleted]

They have basically messed up my order,I had email saying all ready on the 5th,there system said 10th modem was posted on friday instead of the 3rd like my confirmation stated,line was ment to be on by 7.30 pm friday,tried a adsl modem today(I know it might just not work) but didnt get a sync.So god knows

[zitianaki]

I would wait until thursday they do say 10 working days from when you place the order :) before i got mine i did checks and it said it was activated and that was next day from when i had orderd it .


Your router should arrive between 7 - 10 working days, if for some reason you haven't received your router after 10 days, please contact customer services on 0845 333 3322.

thats what i got after i signed up :ninja:

[zing_deleted]

yeah you try calling that number if they answer ill be shocked

[zitianaki]

:LOL: Cant say i tried i never needed to. but earliest you would get the modem is tomorrow latest thursday. Before u know if ull be surfing ur 8MBit, im intrested to see how fast you get from 2.7/8km away from the exchange my cousin is 3km away from exchange he might get it but isent sure its worth it. thing i find weird is how do ukonline give a crap upload yet freedom2surf going with easynet are giving a 786kbit upload. if they have a good price and decent/no cap with full 8Mbit ill move to them

[zing_deleted]

Finally got it sorted pulling down a good solid 6.5 meg constant so happy with that
Only problem is news.virgin.net will not allow me to connect,ukonline are not blocking port 119 and it worked fine before

[Bifta]

Finally got it sorted pulling down a good solid 6.5 meg constant so happy with that
Only problem is news.virgin.net will not allow me to connect,ukonline are not blocking port 119 and it worked fine before

Probably blocked at Virgins end

[Neil]

Finally got it sorted pulling down a good solid 6.5 meg constant so happy with that
Only problem is news.virgin.net will not allow me to connect,ukonline are not blocking port 119 and it worked fine before

Worked fine from where-your ntl connection?

That's proabably becuase ntl supply Virgin's backbone, so hence ntl customers are 'allowed' in, whereas UKOnline ones probably aren't.

[zing_deleted]

Probably blocked at Virgins end
Worked fine form where-your ntl connection?

That's proabably becuase ntl supply Virgin's backbone, so hence ntl customers are 'allowed' in, whereas UKOnline ones probably aren't.

Any way round it? I may just keep ntl 1 meg just for small newsgroups

[Bifta]

Any way round it? I may just keep ntl 1 meg just for small newsgroups

Why would you pay for a 1 meg connection just to get access to crap newsgroups when you could pay 6 quid a month for premium newsgroup access via easynews?

[zing_deleted]

I have actually been with easynews for a couple of years,was using it to find easy fills for things pulled off the free server,guess I am just being tight and should just roll my account over more per month
I am gonna keep the 1 meg on for a couple of months while I make sure Im happy with ukonline so I will make sure I download the 3 gig off it :)

[Bifta]

I have actually been with easynews for a couple of years,was using it to find easy fills for things pulled off the free server,guess I am just being tight and should just roll my account over more per month

So why would you want to pay a monthly subscription for a 1 meg connection to access newsgroups with far worse completion rates?

[zing_deleted]

So why would you want to pay a monthly subscription for a 1 meg connection to access newsgroups with far worse completion rates?

Some of the groups on the virgin server do carry some good binaries (not gonna mention groups)and of course there free,I was just about pulling my full 3meg using newsbin pro with the free server,The easynews par viewer always makes it easy to find fills on easynews,so the 2 together was working well for me

[Bifta]

Some of the groups on the virgin server do carry some good binaries (not gonna mention groups)and of course there free,I was just about pulling my full 3meg using newsbin pro with the free server

The binaries won't be nearly as complete as they are on Easynews. You can get unlimited transfer with some premium news providers for less than you'd pay NTL.

[zing_deleted]

Ive been looking at giganews 24 dollars a month unlimited,and newsbin is almost as simple to use as the easynews web browser,

[zing_deleted]

this is a total nightmare now,modem keeps losing sync with dsl and guess what,yes long waits in que again

[zitianaki]

where are you downloading to need to wait in a queue. havent needed to queue up for anything for ages

[zing_deleted]

where are you downloading to need to wait in a queue. havent needed to queue up for anything for ages
TS line and CS line not queing for downloading
Tbh if nothings sorted in the first month then ill cancel as they will not have supplied service and in breach of contract,then I will stay with ntl drop to 2 mb and just settle down

[Ignition]

Sounds like your line can't handle the synch rate and it needs to be dropped a bit to stabilise it.

If you check the stats on your ADSL router I bet the downstream SNR margin is under 6 which isn't good.

You need the line slowed down a bit so that it can be more stable unfortunately, line is too noisy and/or too long to supply the full 8m.

[zing_deleted]

Sounds like your line can't handle the synch rate and it needs to be dropped a bit to stabilise it.

If you check the stats on your ADSL router I bet the downstream SNR margin is under 6 which isn't good.

You need the line slowed down a bit so that it can be more stable unfortunately, line is too noisy and/or too long to supply the full 8m.
I think your right,they are investigating the situation,afaik if they drop it to 4 meg ill be ok with it
The whole thing is a nightmare the cs is awful and waiting times on the phone are worse,I just hope they sort it soon.
Cant find any levels in router config anywhere

[zitianaki]

I have spoken to UKonline, they have been quick to answer the phone and have not dismissed the problem. Initial response was to reduce the line speed to 7Mbit, because there was some noise on the line. Today I hear that this problem is not uncommon and they are looking at providing static IP addresses to all 8000 customers.

have they provided you with a static ip or did you get a dynamic one

[Paul]

the cs is awful and waiting times on the phone are worse,I just hope they sort it soon.Shocking, and people complain about ntl :angel:

[zing_deleted]

have they provided you with a static ip or did you get a dynamic one
There looking into it,they did mention a static ip
Am i right in assuming if i was on a dynamic ip it would change if I reboot my modem? If this is the case then I do have a static ip
__________________

Shocking, and people complain about ntl :angel:
Ntl are remarkable by comparison,ive never known anything like it,2 phone calls 3 and half hours on hold,still no reply

[zitianaki]

thats right, modem rebooting would change your ip if it was dynamic.

[zing_deleted]

static ip has not fixed it :(

[zitianaki]

strange, i am looking into moving to freedom2surf they give you a 768kbit upload
but 8Mbit not available yet definatly better then 400k

[zing_deleted]

what I get when it does work

[zitianaki]

hrm goes well when you do get good seing as your 2.8km is it? from the exchange when adsl2+ is here i think its 3km or less they advice so you definatly be full speed then :D and if them info is correct should be this summer trial adsl2+ or launching it i think more like september if they do

[zing_deleted]

Ive just been on the to tech yet again and they tell and I quote "He has done some work on it but some levels were high so he left it to see if thats any good"

I replied and i quote "Why did he leave it then? why didn't he finish the job and why wasn't I informed at what had gone on"

The reply and I quote "I don't know why he didn't finish the job,and they should have informed you"

Me "F*!*****!!!!!*********!!!" you get the idea

Them "I will make a note that it still drops out and we will get an engineer to look at it"

This is all becoming like a farse now any minute I expect someone to say "I didn't want to be in tech support Im pining for the feords" as a groups of mounties come out and sing "Im a lumberjack"

[Ignition]

ADSL2+ may add a tiny bit onto the downstream, however it should be noted that ADSL2+ speeds drop like a brick once you get a certain distance away, and by the time you can't receive a full 8Mbps on ADSL1 the speeds you'll see on ADSL2+ are practically identical.

Will find the graphs I had.

This is due to ADSL2+ operating at a higher power and to higher frequencies, however as the frequency goes up the attenuation goes up massively, so once you're a certain distance away the extra frequencies and the bandwidth that you could use them for are too attenuated to be usable so you're back pretty much at square one.

If the 3KM refers to distance from the exchange they are being a little optimistic ;) The guideline for full 8Mbps currently is 2KM.

[zing_deleted]

My whole venture has turned into a nightmare,if only ntl would be a bit more realistic about its cap/speed ratio and I would be more than happy to stay,but thats off this topic so i will continue to sulk :rolleyes:

[Ignition]

My whole venture has turned into a nightmare,if only ntl would be a bit more realistic about its cap/speed ratio and I would be more than happy to stay,but thats off this topic so i will continue to sulk :rolleyes:

OK If you are using the UKOnline supplied router here's how to get your line stats:

1. Telnet into the router (default IP 192.168.0.1, or whatever you'e changed it to) from a command prompt:
telnet 192.168.0.1

2. User ID and password to log in are both "admin" by default

3. Issue the following command to show the stats:
cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats

Please paste the output :)

[zing_deleted]

cheers dude,the connection is stable at the moment but after 6 ish it will not be

[Ignition]

DS Margin = 1

This is unacceptably low, you really need this to be 6 or higher to keep a stable connection, at the moment someone farting near your phone line will take you offline.

Good show though for a 3.3km or so long line, they need to drop your speed down.

It gets worse at 6 due to more RF interference, more people using their ADSL, switching lights on, etc.

[zing_deleted]

Nice one dude least I have somethign to tell them about now

Please soneone rep this guy as I need to spread some love around first

[WaryWolf]

http://www.internode.on.net/adsl2/adsl2graph.htm

that's a graph of adsl2+ speeds and how they drop as distance from exchange increases. adsl2 and adsl2 are also on there.

some australian isp's have already started offering 24mbit adsl2+ products, with some hefty download limits too. the only problem is they're only available to about 10 exchanges across the country :(

[zing_deleted]

finally getting somewhere,Im now on about 5 meg and my ds margin is 12,yesterday I was on 6 meg and ds margin in the day was approx 8 but after 6 it was 3 then by 9 it was 1 and dropping again,I hope todays results are better or I will end up on 2 meg,but if this happens I will only be paying £19.99.
If you want to contact ukonline tech support call them between the hours of midnight and 7 am

[Wakar]

im just thinking about getting the ukonline 8mb.. i can get it!! :Sprint: i cud off in a month so to speak

[Gareth]

er...what? Sorry, mate, I've read and re-read that last part of your post, but it's still not making any sense to me.