View Full Version : Digital Camcorders?
I'm going to buy a camcorder to take away with me on my hols! :D
I've got a budget of around £500 - £600.
I've seen a few but TBH they all seem the same!
I know optical zoom is most important but what else?
Is "Low Light capability" the same thing as 0 LUX, total darkness usage or is it the poormans alternative?
I do like the look of JVC slim camcorders ;) I was thinking it being a DV In/Out one so I can download onto my PC.
I'm concerned about battery life, how long does a new battery last? Will it last a day out and about on holiday?, 12 hour day, obviously not constantly on, but what's reasonable?
The ones in my local Dixons, that I've seen are:
JVC GR-DX 25 @ £549.89
16x optical zoom
700x digital zoom
low light capability
image stabaliser
no mention about if it's DV or not?
Can I take still with this?
Canon MV6301 (850076) @ £639.89
20x optical
400 digital
USB connection
DV in/out
Removable memory - what's the significance of this? Is it for still images?
I'd squeeze the Canon if it has still image, would the qulaity be good? cause it has increased optical and a usb conn?
Anyone have one of these or know of them?
Any other cameras I should look at?
Where's the best place to buy these from? Online or offline? Any suggestions for online?
ok I've been to internetcamcordersdirect and seen this one:
Canon MV650i @ £599
http://www.internetcamcordersdirect.co.uk (http://www.internetcamcordersdirect.co.uk/a-canon-MV650I-features.htm)
What do you think?
TigaSefi
18-08-2003, 16:30
try
www.empiredirect.co.uk
www.amazon.co.uk
bob_builder
18-08-2003, 16:35
I would recommend JVC - I have one (not same model) and it is very good quality.
You only need DVin if you plan to edit the video on your PC and then copy it back onto tape.
If anything, then the size and weight are one of the most important features if you plan to carry it around with you!
The still image that camcorders take is limited by the number of pixels, which is usually much less than modern digital cameras. Instead of spending £150 more on a camcoder that can save to memory card, get a decent 2MP still camera - the pictures will be much better.
Unless battery life has changed much in the last two years, a battery will last for about 1 hour shooting with the LCD screen or 2 hours through the viewfinder. However, it has never run out whilst I have been on holiday (I charged it up fully each night).
I would definitely look at the online prices - when I bought mine I got it for £550 when it was £700 in Dixons!
bob_builder
18-08-2003, 16:36
I got my JVC from http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/
It was the cheapest place at the time (a couple of years ago!)
paulyoung666
18-08-2003, 17:58
brother in law has the canon model down from that , mv630 i think and it is spot on , if i remember right he got it for about £450 , not sure where from though :rolleyes:
Casper...for what it is worth....
do a google search for camcorders...digital or otherwise...
there are several sites that "line up" all the models.so that you can compare prices...with several of the sites you can tick a box and then compare the specs side by side...I am doing the same for digi cameras...
blackthorn
18-08-2003, 19:50
I`ve got the Sharp Digital viewcam model vl-nz100.
It`s small enough to fit in yor pocket. It`s got a ssd card in for still pics and I managed to get 100 pics on holiday in Turkey and they weren`t bad quality either.
It has no viewfindinder, only the lcd screen on the rear but I`ve got used to that. What I was impressed with was it`s ability to take decent vid when it was very dark at night.
Battery never let me down. Never actually timed it to see how much time I got out of a fully charged battery but it seemed a long time.
Personally, I`d give it 9/10 but as with all things that people own its all down to whether you like it or not.
Emperor Ming
20-08-2003, 23:13
Casper what ever model you go for make sure it is has DV in/out
or you will regret it later :( trust me :)
Research your subject !!!
check out uk forum link at lot of guys that know all about this this inside out just ask about JVC :( :( :(
http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&category=1&BypassCookie=true
Canon/ Panasonic / Sony / Some Samsungs tend to be ok
I would avoid JVC like the plague, they tend to run to their on rules and not follow "White PAPER SPECS" ie industry standards and have been know to cause probs if your editing on PC via firewire.
buy a bigger spare battery/ camera bag and lots of tape you'LL NEED it ;)
above all READ the destruction manual TWICE
don't expect much picture quailty from a camcorder unless it has a 3 ccd chip in it, most are rated at 800 k with 1 cdd chip less than 1 meg pixel ok for web / monitor pictures but dont get your hopes up about printing them larger than 6 x 4
and finally enjoy your hols
DV Video is my Life
but I am a semi pro at this game
your Lord and Master MING :smokin:
try these
http://www.ukdigital.co.uk/digital_camcorders_pg.htm
http://www.bestcameras.co.uk/intro.htm
PS Recommend any Panosonic / Sony
you pays your money your takes your chance
Originally posted by Caspar
Is "Low Light capability" the same thing as 0 LUX, total darkness usage or is it the poormans alternative?
0 Lux is absolutely no light at all ... not quite the same as 'low light'. Be very careful with this and descriptions of all camera functions, you will get exactly what it says you will and not a micron more.
SMHarman
21-08-2003, 13:17
I've the Cannon MV530i last years 630i. The card slot is for recording still images on. As others have said good for the web and not much else.
Its a very nice camcorder for the money.
Optical zoom is more important than digital zoom, which IMHO is a waste of time. If you are planning to edit footage on a PC then digital effects on board are not worth worrying about.
I got mine from www.nomatica.co.uk there based in France so you get a european spec (different plug for the wall! thats it).
http://www.nomatica.com/index.asp?devise=GBP&langue=EN&pays=UK
They are selling the 630i for £433, but they can be slow as they don't keep a lot of stock. Make sure you pay with a credit card that protects overseas transactions and you will be fine though. They deliver by fedex.
I got the pack they sell with the extra BP522 battery. Its a big battery that gives about 4 hours shooting time and is great. Means you charge before you go away and dont need to bother carting the charger with you.
To be honest though you could buy the 550i from them and have last years better camera that is not very different from the 650i.
Just don't spend you holiday behind a viewfinder. Enjoy it as well. Oh and if its your first time with a camcorder don't get zoom happy. Makes for unpleasant viewing on a 32in widescreen.
Depends if you're set on the Canon, I've just got the Sony 105E (£697 from Jessops Retail 999) I bought this after borrowing a sony PC8 which was great and costs around 530 online. I went with the 105 because of the memory card feature that I don't really use, the low light stuff is OK but not something that you would use every day. Great for Blair Witch style movies if you live near a forest or woods.
...and if you don't want to spend that much:
http://www.firebox.com/index.html?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=501
(Check out some of the videos)
Visibleman
21-08-2003, 22:26
We use sony DCRTRV80's (i believe, they look similar eitherway) for my media course at school and they are utter cr*p. Well not utter, good bit of kit to have, but the image quality isnt all that :( In low light the sony's image starts to get grainy and the "nightvison" mode isnt all that either (lets just say, girls changing rooms, lights off...couldnt see cr*p :(...lol and the government say media studies is a waste of time ;)).
A note though, try and stay away from all the gagets and gizmos that you get on the camcorder. And i wouldnt go for the still gaget you get on the camera either because 1)The image quality wont be all that 2)Alot of them dont have flashes and 3)You wont get all the features of a digital camera.
To be honest mate, try and spend as much as you can on a camcorder. But i would personally go for a cannon or a JVC (if you cant got for a topish cannon although ive seen footage from some JVC cam and it looked pretty good). Sony's only really start to become really good when your spending grands, even then i would go for the cannon (better lens overall).
Hope this helps mate :)
SMHarman
22-08-2003, 12:38
Comet has the MV630 on sale at 499 at the mo. Or so says the flyer that dropped out of my supersoarawaysun this morning.
The Image quality on my cannon in good light is fantastic, comparable to broadcast quality IMHO. Biggest problem with the 500 and 600 ranges is motor noise on the internal mike. Solution, Jessops external mike for 25 quid.
First of all thanks everyone for replying :D
This has truly turned into a good resource for people buying a new camcorder!
Ok - in the end I've bought the Canon MV650i, from Amazon, found here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008PS7I/202-8788567-0018240).
It's just seemed good value for money, still camera looks ok, I've a megapixel one now...but I like the idea of it being integrated.
The Super Night Mode (0 LUX) was a true convincer over the 630i ...plus some other things...
Thanks all again :D
Jarandco
24-08-2003, 22:39
well i currently have this one - well its sorta used by everyone but this is the one - its nice and small and the pic quality aint too bad for moving images not really keen on the still images quality!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000092QQF/qid=1061761083/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/202-6429877-3761465
bob_a_builder
02-09-2003, 11:51
Have a drool over this
Here (http://www.panasonic-europe.com/d-snap/products/product.asp?p=sv-av100)
nighthawk
02-09-2003, 11:56
Originally posted by bob_a_builder
Have a drool over this
Here (http://www.panasonic-europe.com/d-snap/products/product.asp?p=sv-av100)
I need this.... just have to think of a better excuse that "i want" before i tell the missis
Originally posted by bob_a_builder
Have a drool over this
Here (http://www.panasonic-europe.com/d-snap/products/product.asp?p=sv-av100)
Nice :)
...but it would keep falling out of my hands!!! or I' get confused and put it in my wallet and sit on it! :p
Originally posted by nighthawk
I need this.... just have to think of a better excuse that "i want" before i tell the missis
..just break your existing one ;)
or:
1. Book a holiday, cause you have to have one for that...
2. Get married, economical sense ofver hiring a videoographer!
3. Have kids, just record the little cuties!
4. Begin a new chapter of bedroom excitement ;)
gary_580
03-09-2003, 15:52
Dont forget that Jesspos will beat anyones price if theyt have it in stock. (Even internet suppliers)
bob_a_builder
03-09-2003, 18:52
Just before anyone rushes out to slap down their £900 quid ( well it is listed at $995, and that usually translates directly to £ )on that tiny Panasonic SD based camera (see Drool above). when it comes out in Oct.
I've just seen another SD based camera, about the same size in a Dixons Cameras & Camcorders brochure for only £649, and since every other camera in this brochure is wildly overpriced compared to internet store prices, I'm sure you can do much better than £ 649 - model is JVC GR-DX100
only minor (major) issue is it only comes with an 8mb SD which is of course laughable for a video cam - my still Digi cam came with 16mb and thats far too small ! - 512MB SD card about £150 ( 7dayshop)
How many minutes of video do you get on a 256mb SD card, and at what quality compared to Mini-DV or Digi-8 tape?
bob_a_builder
03-09-2003, 20:21
"The D-snap ...... records in MPEG 2 format (which is also used in DVD videos), and in MPEG 4 format. A 512MB SD memory card can store up to 20 minutes of DVD-quality video, or 3.5 hours of standard MPEG 4 video. Photo snapshots are made by the camera in VGA quality (640 x 480 pixels).
"
I'll let you / 2
The batttery that comes with my new camera (Canon MV650i) has the BP-512 battery. It doesn't last for more than an hour or so with LCD screen recording/viewing.
Does anyone know where I can find the two larger batteries for the Canon, the 522 and 535, I think they are. the 522 has double the capacity and the 535 triple...
I've tried the links in this thread and only ukdigital.co.uk lists them?
Jessops are usually a good source (go for there brand and not canon to save £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£). I got the 511 for a canon G3 dig cam and it was 1/2 the price of the canon model.
paulyoung666
04-09-2003, 20:18
Originally posted by Caspar
The batttery that comes with my new camera (Canon MV650i) has the BP-512 battery. It doesn't last for more than an hour or so with LCD screen recording/viewing.
Does anyone know where I can find the two larger batteries for the Canon, the 522 and 535, I think they are. the 522 has double the capacity and the 535 triple...
I've tried the links in this thread and only ukdigital.co.uk lists them?
try here (http://gmkbatteries.co.uk/acatalog/GMK_Batteries_co_uk__BP522_656.html)
looks good to me :)
Originally posted by paulyoung666
try here (http://gmkbatteries.co.uk/acatalog/GMK_Batteries_co_uk__BP522_656.html)
looks good to me :)
Cheers m8 :)
Canon MV650i
How do I connect the Camcorder for the video DV tape? I can connect for the SD Card images through the USB cable but I can't seem to figure out how to retrieve my video footage off of the tape?
Do I need to buy a Firewire cable, or can the USB handle it?
(Pc owners dont know nothin:):))
Firewire cable.
Originally posted by ic14
(Pc owners dont know nothin:):))
Firewire cable.
erm!....is that "Yes Cas, you need to buy a Firewaire cable"?
..if so...then why doesn't it come with one...I spent a few good hours wondering why my new expensive camera doens't work :confused: :mad: :rolleyes:
Its the same with printers, bloody things have no cable,
Considering they cost a few pounds to make, youd think they would give you one for free.
Originally posted by ic14
Its the same with printers, bloody things have no cable,
Considering they cost a few pounds to make, youd think they would give you one for free.
It's the same effect that meant when you bought a new fridge or TV, for years there would be no plug on the end of the wire. The retailers said this was because they didn't know whether you had modern square-pin sockets, or old fashioned round-pin sockets at home. Believe it or not, it took a change in the law to force them to give you a plug.
With printers, it all started because of the switch from serial to USB. This gave them the excuse to give you no cable at all.
Well there should be a change in the law for camcorders and printers.
I agree...
Well, I dont mind not having a cable TBH...I would appreciate one...esp cause the camera has the ability to do it...
..what miffs me is that I spent a few good hours wondering my my USB cable doesn't fo the job!
...a simply sticker on the box or a line somewhere in the manual.
"Firewire cable not included"
How hard is it???? :mad:
Not very hard,
Make sure you get the right one though cas!
Originally posted by ic14
Not very hard,
Make sure you get the right one though cas!
ah!...I'm going to get one 2morrow what kinds are there?
paulyoung666
05-09-2003, 21:22
did you get a battery sorted out my mate :p
Originally posted by Caspar
ah!...I'm going to get one 2morrow what kinds are there?
Its basically the number of pins,
The camcorder has 4 pins, pcs normally have 6, so make sure you get a 4pin to 6pin cable
Originally posted by paulyoung666
did you get a battery sorted out my mate :p
I'm impressed with that link you gave me...only picked it up tonight, the link that is ;)
I was in Jessops the other day, on recon!, and the size of that BP512 is huge!....honestly it is massive....I'd have to alter my sense of balance when I had that plugged in!
I might get two medium once....the BP522...I think it is...
Just before you trawl down to your local shop and buy the cable - Check your PC has a firewire port otherwise you'll need a firewire (1394) card...
Originally posted by Tricky
Just before you trawl down to your local shop and buy the cable - Check your PC has a firewire port otherwise you'll need a firewire (1394) card...
An excellent point! :)
I know my laptop does...but my main machine doesn't :(
Another way in which Macs are better than Windows PCs
Originally posted by ic14
Another way in which Macs are better than Windows PCs
Ah yes, my humble old indigo iMac, complete with 2 USB ports and 2 Firewire ports, and not a pedestrian serial/parallel port in sight ...
Buying a zippy fast printer and scanner was a delight even tho it was well over 3 years ago, and when I bought a Sony digi-8 Handycam deal with Firewire card, cable and software thrown in ... I gave the Firewire card away to a less fortunate PC-owning friend. (I kept the cable tho', they aint cheap...)
My ibooks only got one firwire port though and those Firewire hubs are expensive
Originally posted by ic14
My ibooks only got one firwire port though and those Firewire hubs are expensive
Bit of a bummer if you want to take DV out of the camera and straight onto an external FW hard drive...
Yep, esp when you only have 10 GBs of Hardrive space....
but dont FW HDs have a passthru port?
Originally posted by ic14
Yep, esp when you only have 10 GBs of Hardrive space....
but dont FW HDs have a passthru port?
Good question ... tbh I don't know. The only external FW drive I ever get to use is the missus' iPod, and I don't get near that very often at all. Predictably there's no room for a pass-thru on that.
Originally posted by ic14
Yep, esp when you only have 10 GBs of Hardrive space....
but dont FW HDs have a passthru port?
....another reason why PCs are much better than macs ;)
I have 0.6 TB HDDs ;)
Originally posted by Caspar
....another reason why PCs are much better than macs ;)
I have 0.6 TB HDDs ;)
What?! Let's compare eggs with eggs, eh? How old is your PC and how old is ic's powerbook? I could as easily say PCs are useless because the one I ditched when I bought my iMac had a 1gb HDD while my iMac has 20gb. My iMac is about 3 and a half years old, by the way...:p
Originally posted by towny
What?! Let's compare eggs with eggs, eh? How old is your PC and how old is ic's powerbook? I could as easily say PCs are useless because the one I ditched when I bought my iMac had a 1gb HDD while my iMac has 20gb. My iMac is about 3 and a half years old, by the way...:p
I bought my AMD 1.4 machine about 2 yrs ago...maybe longer...I've swapped nearly every piece in there since!!!
added more ram, new graphics card, more HDD..to the 0.6 TB :D ...DVDR...etc.. :D
Yeah, you can upgrade a desktop, trying to doing that to any laptop....
BTW towny my ibooks the 1st genaration of the pure white ones, so its getting on a bit,
Originally posted by towny
Ah yes, my humble old indigo iMac, complete with 2 USB ports and 2 Firewire ports, and not a pedestrian serial/parallel port in sight ...
Or a floppy drive and 'end' key right?
Originally posted by danielf
Or a floppy drive and 'end' key right?
Never felt the need for either ... tell me, in this age of compact flash, free webspace and rewritable CDs, what exactly do you use a 1.44mb floppy for? The visionaries at Apple spotted the demise of the floppy and dropped it. As usual, the PC takes years to catch up...
Originally posted by towny
Never felt the need for either ... tell me, in this age of compact flash, free webspace and rewritable CDs, what exactly do you use a 1.44mb floppy for? The visionaries at Apple spotted the demise of the floppy and dropped it. As usual, the PC takes years to catch up...
Yeah, fair enough, though they were a bit quick to spot it. I still want an end key on my keyboard though ;). Very handy when programming, and checking on those closing brackets.
Originally posted by danielf
Yeah, fair enough, though they were a bit quick to spot it. I still want an end key on my keyboard though ;). Very handy when programming, and checking on those closing brackets.
We use ctrl + right/left arrow for home and end. Just something slightly different to get used to, like @ being above the 2 and " above the ' ... :spin:
Originally posted by towny
We use ctrl + right/left arrow for home and end. Just something slightly different to get used to, like @ being above the 2 and " above the ' ... :spin:
Don't tell me. I have 4 Macs at work, and a pc laptop and desktop at home. I think they all have different keyboards :rolleyes:
Are Camcorder tripods universal? I mean I want to buy a tripod for this camera (Canon MV605i) for wedding and xmas show etc. but not sure which to get? and are the screw fitting underneath the cam all the same,..so just buy any one?
Any recommendations on tripods? :D
paulyoung666
01-12-2003, 10:35
Are Camcorder tripods universal? I mean I want to buy a tripod for this camera (Canon MV605i) for wedding and xmas show etc. but not sure which to get? and are the screw fitting underneath the cam all the same,..so just buy any one?
Any recommendations on tripods? :D
as far as i know the screw thread is the same on all cameras , i have just checked my digi cam and it looks the same as anything else i have ever had :)
Are Camcorder tripods universal? I mean I want to buy a tripod for this camera (Canon MV605i) for wedding and xmas show etc. but not sure which to get? and are the screw fitting underneath the cam all the same,..so just buy any one?
Any recommendations on tripods? :D
The screw thread on a tripod is universal, but one or two camera manufacturers sometimes use non-standard threads on some of their camera bodies in a fairly transparent attempt to make you buy their own-brand tripod. Can't remember who the likely culprits are off the top of my head - but if you find your camera doesn't fit the tripod you want, you will be able to get a small adapter very easily.
SMHarman
01-12-2003, 12:01
You should also check the screw depth. Most are OK on camcorders, but on compact camcorders the cannon MV1 range (for example) and compact cameras, you need to make sure that if you do the tripod up tight you don't punch a hole in the bottom of the camera. A spacer ring stops this though.
I'd actually recommend a monopod for a camcorder, thats unless you want to do really static work (e.g. interviews). It will increase stability, not be too big to cart around etc.
Nice camera the 650i, I've got the 530i and am very happy with it, the only real difference between the two is a slight change in the optics to increase the manual zoom, though I've actually found the wide angle attachment I've bought more useful than the zoom, as so much filming, is of my son playing / walking etc indoors, its so much easer to frame with the wide angle.
Also you can buy steadycam type attachments instead of tripods, these start at about £80 though.
Cheers all...I've opted for the tripod not the monopod, simply cause it can be used without the arm for balance...for xmas shows and wedding etc...
The camera handbook says the tripod attachment, the screw thing should not be bigger than 5.5mm
I have bought the below tripod, maybe I should have asked the guy first! :p
from ebay ;) NEW BOXED GIOTTOS TD570 TRIPOD (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3325&item=2967792862) for £37 odd....the 470 closed at £35, so it snds like a good deal!
paulyoung666
02-12-2003, 14:28
Cheers all...I've opted for the tripod not the monopod, simply cause it can be used without the arm for balance...for xmas shows and wedding etc...
The camera handbook says the tripod attachment, the screw thing should not be bigger than 5.5mm
I have bought the below tripod, maybe I should have asked the guy first! :p
from ebay ;) NEW BOXED GIOTTOS TD570 TRIPOD (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3325&item=2967792862) for £37 odd....the 470 closed at £35, so it snds like a good deal!
perhaps it should not be longer than 5.5mm methinks , make sure it aint as said before , or else it could be :bigcry: time :disturbd:
MadGamer
06-12-2003, 22:34
Fuji Finepix 410 found HERE (http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/digitalProductReviews.jsp#F410)
I have just bought a Sony DCR-PC120E camcorder and am on the lookout for some consumables i.e. Mini DV tapes and accessories i.e. case, tripod, Spare NP-QM91D battery.
Can anyone recommend any good sites where I can buy them please? I'm also on the lookout for any good deals and am interested in forum members advice on any must-have pieces of kit or software I need to maximise my videoing pleasure...apart from a glamorous model!!
Any info greatly appreciate
vaiolator
26-03-2004, 17:02
One thing you might find useful, a filter for the lens. It stops the lens getting damaged fom dust and dirt.
I bought a double capacity battery for my JVC for about £18 from an online seller on ebay. If you use ebay, let me know and I will try to find the sellers details. You could get that glamorous model for an hour, for the shop price of one, in my case about £70, so I am led to believe!
ehhezron
15-12-2004, 15:31
Hi! I had a problem with my Digital Canon 630i. Alll of a sudden I can not manage to see the image on the LCD/viewfinder when it is in camera mode, but I can see the picture when it is on Play mode. What could be the problem with my Digital camcorder? Advise me please!
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