Milk

[Salu]

A couple of thoughts about milk.

I bought a carton of milk on Monday (25th OCt) hoping it would last me the best part of the week which it normally does (cups of tea during the day at work).

I noticed that when I got back to my office, it had a use by date of today (27th Oct). I bought if from a different place to my normal place and thought it obviously didn't sell as much milk as my usual place....

When I used it I had the ominous floaters rise to the top...yuck.

It got me thinking though. Is it just that I should pay as much for a product that lasts two days as the same that lasts 10 days? Shouldn't it decrease every day? Probably difficult to enforce I know but should shelf life be taken into consideration when we purchase?

Also it feels like milk lasts much longer these days.....?

Am I right? If so, what the hell are they doing to it to make it last longer......maybe it isn't as healthy as it used to be? Obviously pasturisation and homoginisation has had dramatic effects on milk over the years, but what else are they doing? Removing enzymes? adding E numbers??

Hmmmmm

[Graham F]

did your mum not tell you to always check the dates ;):p:

[gary_580]

always take your product from the back of the shelf ;)

[gazzae]

Don't know about it lasting longer, but maybe one reason would be new technology decreasing the time it takes to get the milk from the cow to the shelf.

[Nugget]

did your mum not tell you to always check the dates ;):p:

I thought he was buying milk, not dates :p:

[ian@huth]

always take your product from the back of the shelf ;)

That's OK as long as the shelf stacker knows about stock rotation and does it properly. If they just fill the gaps at the front of the shelf the products at the back may already be out of date.

[orangebird]

Milk... :sick: the devils drink...:erm:

[homealone]

I thought you would have known about this, Salu, the legal pasteurisation process is 71.7°C for 15 seconds, designed to eliminate pathogenic bacteria.

It was found, however, that Myobacterium avium paratuberculosis (MAP), the organism supposedly responsible for Crohn's disease, was surviving this process. Subsequently, mainly due to pressure from retailers, the milk producers have been pasteurising at 71.7°C for 25 seconds. Hence it will 'last' longer than it 'used' to.

- this does depend on being stored & handled, correctly (kept cool <5°C), which was probably why yours had 'floaters' with 2 days shelf life left. (not hazardous to health, by the way, but a sure sign of lactic acid increase & an indicator the milk is 'on the turn' )

:)

[Steve H]

That's OK as long as the shelf stacker knows about stock rotation and does it properly. If they just fill the gaps at the front of the shelf the products at the back may already be out of date.

Any half decent supermarket/shop will defiently have the old produce on the front, and the new at the back. If they caught one of the monkeys who stacked the shelves putting it any old way he/she would probably be dismissed.

[Paul K]

Any half decent supermarket/shop will defiently have the old produce on the front, and the new at the back. If they caught one of the monkeys who stacked the shelves putting it any old way he/she would probably be dismissed.
:erm: Now I thought calling people in the support trades "Monkey" was a no no ? ;)
Unless of course your local supermarkets are taking staff from zoos :p:

[Chris]

If you don't get around to using up an entire carton of milk, I can recommend Cravendale Purefiltre ... I think the way it works is they filter the pasteursed milk through something so fine that it actually sifts out many of the bacteria that manage to survive the pasteurisation. The result is the milk takes longer to go off in your fridge.

[Steve H]

:erm: Now I thought calling people in the support trades "Monkey" was a no no ? ;)
Unless of course your local supermarkets are taking staff from zoos :p:

Half the staff we've got at M&S may as well be from the Zoo :p:

[homealone]

If you don't get around to using up an entire carton of milk, I can recommend Cravendale Purefiltre ... I think the way it works is they filter the pasteursed milk through something so fine that it actually sifts out many of the bacteria that manage to survive the pasteurisation. The result is the milk takes longer to go off in your fridge.

This milk is not pasteurised at all, it relies 'purely' (sorry) on the filtration process to remove the bacteria.

I havn't tried it myself, but anyone who finds pasteurised milk to have a slight 'caramel' flavour, should like it. (Round here they still sell 'sterilised' milk in crown capped bottles - I find the flavour of this absolutely vile and can't stand even UHT milk in tea)

[Mr_love_monkey]

Getting in before Nugget does.... :)

What's the fastest milk in the world?
Past-your-eyes... boom boom...

Anyway, small local shops are notorious for the close to sell by date milk, and bread (mouldy bread..errghhh)... and I think they only get away with it because people only shop there out of need, i.e. if it wasn't a tea emergency they'd go to a supermarket and get some with a good use by date...

The answer is to get some of that soya milk, it tastes disgusting anyway, and going off might actually improve the flavour...

[Nugget]

Getting in before Nugget does.... :)

What's the fastest milk in the world?
Past-your-eyes... boom boom...



Surely that would be the tallest milk in the world ;)

What's the emptiest?
Whole

I'll be off

[Salu]

I thought you would have known about this, Salu, the legal pasteurisation process is 71.7°C for 15 seconds, designed to eliminate pathogenic bacteria.

It was found, however, that Myobacterium avium paratuberculosis (MAP), the organism supposedly responsible for Crohn's disease, was surviving this process. Subsequently, mainly due to pressure from retailers, the milk producers have been pasteurising at 71.7°C for 25 seconds. Hence it will 'last' longer than it 'used' to.

- this does depend on being stored & handled, correctly (kept cool <5°C), which was probably why yours had 'floaters' with 2 days shelf life left. (not hazardous to health, by the way, but a sure sign of lactic acid increase & an indicator the milk is 'on the turn' )

:)

I do remember reading about MAP and the effect on Inflammatory Bowel Disease but don't think that the extra time for pasteurisation will increase milk's shelf life. It's just a move designed to decrease the zoonotic potential of the bacterium. Which incidently the 25secs being enought is disputed; I just read....

[gary_580]

I thought he was buying milk, not dates :p:

Why would anyone want to buy shrivelled up plums. Old age will do that :D

[Graham]

(Round here they still sell 'sterilised' milk in crown capped bottles - I find the flavour of this absolutely vile and can't stand even UHT milk in tea)

There's a reason for that, when they UHT the milk the fat curdles which causes the revolting flavour.

However if you buy the Fully Skimmed UHT milk you don't get that problem because all the fat has been removed.

I've currently got six litres of it in my fridge and use two to three litres a week, then buy another two or three cartons each week at Tesco. Since it keeps for ages it doesn't matter if it's a fortnight old, it's still perfectly good.

[Ramrod]

On the subject of milk, 'A Comprehensive Guide to
Milk Allergies' (http://www.lactose.co.uk/milkallergy/).....

[gary_580]

Poor efforts Love Monkey and Nug

Gloria the blonde once heard that milk baths would make you beautiful. She left a note for her milkman Alan to leave 15 gallons of milk.

When Alan read the note, he felt there must be a mistake. He thought she probably meant 1.5 gallons, so he knocked on the door to clarify the order.

Gloria came to the door, and Alan said, "I found your note to leave 15 gallons of milk. Did you mean 15 gallons or 1.5 gallons?"

Gloria said, "I want 15 gallons. I'm going to fill my bathtub up with milk and take a milk bath."

Alan asked, "Oh, alright, would you like it pasteurized?"

Gloria replied, "No, just up to my waist."

[homealone]

I do remember reading about MAP and the effect on Inflammatory Bowel Disease but don't think that the extra time for pasteurisation will increase milk's shelf life. It's just a move designed to decrease the zoonotic potential of the bacterium. Which incidently the 25secs being enought is disputed; I just read....

very true - it has been found that the MAP organism can survive the 25 seconds...

I do think the extra pasteurisation time increases the shelf life, pasteurisation has only ever sought to remove pathogenic bacteria, such as E. coli, rather than all the organisms present. The Lactobacillus species most commonly surviving are the ones that sour the milk & it stands to reason that the increased processing reduces their numbers more than the 'old' method - thus it takes them longer to reproduce to the point at which the lactic acid they excrete becomes noticeable...

I wish I had access to information about the flora in the Cravendale filtered milk, Chris mentioned earlier, as that seems a more practical way of reducing the bacteria levels than cooking it to death. If filtration removes MAP as well, it would be even more attractive :)

[Mr_love_monkey]

I wish I had access to information about the flora in the Cravendale filtered milk, Chris mentioned earlier, as that seems a more practical way of reducing the bacteria levels than cooking it to death. If filtration removes MAP as well, it would be even more attractive :)

Is it safe though? I thought filtration was fine up to a point (and I remembering from A levels Biology here, so I could be wrong) - I thought some bacteria and viruses were too small to be filtered out?

[gary_580]

A bit off topic but funny

Are you old enough to remember having your milk delivered by the milkman? Here are some funny notes left to those trusty men.
"Dear Milkman, I've just had a baby, please leave another one."

"Please leave an extra pint of paralysed milk."

"Please don't leave any more milk. All they do is drink it"

"Milkman please close the gate behind you because the birds keep pecking the tops off the milk."

"Sorry not to have paid your bill before, but my wife had a baby and I've been carrying it around in my pocket for weeks."

"Sorry about yesterdays note. I didn't mean one egg and a dozen pints, but the other way round."

"When you leave my milk knock on my bedroom window and wake me because I want you 'to give me a hand to turn the mattress."

"Please knock. My TV's broken down and I missed last nights 'Sopranos' . If you saw it, will you tell me what happened."

My daughter says she wants a milkshake. Do you do it before you deliver or do I have to shake the bottle."

"Please send me a form for cheap milk, for I have a baby two months old and did not know about it until a neighbour told me."

"Milk is needed for the baby. Father is unable to supply it."

"From now on please leave two pints every other day and one pint on the days in between, except Wednesdays and Saturdays when I don't want any milk."

My back door is open. Please put milk in 'fridge, get money out of cup in drawer and leave change on kitchen table , because we want to play bingo tonight."

"Please leave no milk today. When I say today, I mean tomorrow, for I wrote this note yesterday...or is it today ?"

"When you come with the milk please put the coal on the boiler, let dog out and put newspaper inside the screen door. PS. Don't leave any milk."

"No milk. Please do not leave milk at No. 14 either as he is dead until further notice."

[homealone]

There's a reason for that, when they UHT the milk the fat curdles which causes the revolting flavour.

However if you buy the Fully Skimmed UHT milk you don't get that problem because all the fat has been removed.

I've currently got six litres of it in my fridge and use two to three litres a week, then buy another two or three cartons each week at Tesco. Since it keeps for ages it doesn't matter if it's a fortnight old, it's still perfectly good.

Interesting - I havn't tried the fully skimmed variety, thanks for that :)

Is it safe though? I thought filtration was fine up to a point (and I remembering from A levels Biology here, so I could be wrong) - I thought some bacteria and viruses were too small to be filtered out?

It must be safe or they would have found out, by now ;)
I imagine some thingies get through the filter membane, though - the pores have to be large enough to let the proteins, fats & sugars through & some viri are very small....

- as with pasteurisation, it's a case of reducing the numbers of bugs, rather than removing them all completely :)

[Halcyon]

Never been a big Milk drinker myself.
Only time I have it is with my cereals but then I leave the milk and throw it away.
I know someone who drinks pints of milk though throughout the day.
Now that is excessive !!!

Though if y'ouve seen the film 'Leon', you are supposedly meant to drink tonnes of it.

Anyway I'm going off topic.
Why does milk last longer.... dont know.... but I did find a quote:

The dairy processing industryââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s collective investment in extended shelf life (ESL), ultra high temperature (UHT) and aseptic packaging technology allows fluid products to reach the end-user more efficiently while maintaining quality. Product can be shipped greater distances, and long-life processing helps ensure product integrity, whether milk is delivered to retailer distribution centers or via the more labor-intensive direct-store delivery method. Whatever the destination, fluid products processed with innovative methods can handle more stress during the process than traditionally processed milk.

[altis]

Try soya milk folks. It lasts longer and IMHO tastes nicer too.

...and they don't have to keep taking calves away from their mums to get it either :(

[Chris]

Try soya milk folks. It lasts longer and IMHO tastes nicer too.

...and they don't have to keep taking calves away from their mums to get it either :(
But just think about all the poor soya beans that will be denied the chance to fulfil their destiny and be planted in the earth to grow as a new soya plant ... :cry: :p: ;)

Seriously though, what do calves get to drink if they're taken away from their mothers? I thought cows continue to produce milk because we continue to milk them, not because they have a young calf that's not allowed to get at the milk?

[Ramrod]

Try soya milk folks. It lasts longer and IMHO tastes nicer too.
:tu:

[Shaun]

If you don't get around to using up an entire carton of milk, I can recommend Cravendale Purefiltre ... I think the way it works is they filter the pasteursed milk through something so fine that it actually sifts out many of the bacteria that manage to survive the pasteurisation. The result is the milk takes longer to go off in your fridge.

I personally have soya milk but Jay has Cravendale, but they've stopped doing a skimmed version due to the fact that their milk (all three types) have become so popular they had to drop the least saleable version to keep up production on the semi and whole milk!!!

We've got 4 x four pinters in the fridge as we're having real trouble getting hold of it around here :(

[Shaun]

Surely that would be the tallest milk in the world ;)

What's the emptiest?
Whole

I'll be off

Your jacket's by the door! :p:

[Xaccers]

More milk related useless facts.
Anyone who's been unfortunate enough to try Hershy chocolate will know it tastes bloody awful, all sour and yuk.
That's because when they first started making it, the milk would go off slightly before getting to the chocolate factory.
Of course these days the milk doesn't go off, but in order to supply the chocolate that american's are used to, Hershy actually adds sour flavour to it! :sick:

[altis]

Seriously though, what do calves get to drink if they're taken away from their mothers? I thought cows continue to produce milk because we continue to milk them, not because they have a young calf that's not allowed to get at the milk?
Nothing... they're slaughtered!

And when the mums dry up the AI man comes round to make them pregnant again.

Yet another of our morally questionable farming practices. :dozey:

[Salu]

:tu:


I'm getting the impression that you are lactose intolerent Ramrod??

[breaks wind not quite discreetly enough.....pppppparp] ;)

[Theodoric]

did your mum not tell you to always check the dates ;):p:
Good advice. If you don't check them carefully, you're likely to find that you've picked up a packet of those medjool dates that cost an arm and a leg (although I've got to admit that they're very tasty).