DVLA mad Red Tape

[Florence]

I have fallen foul of one of the DVLA's rules.

In May I bought a car due to the new rules the old owner has to send up the details... the old rules was beter as when I taxed it the log book would have been kept by the post office and a new one sent. The new rules he has to send it up. When he don't and if you don't realise you havent had the book you are off the road for 4 to 6 weeks while trhey check out who should own the car. I have the money to tax it but they will not let me. This is red tape out of control.. If I have to wait 6 weeks it might aswell be 8 weeks as it is then xmas and all the jobs I needed it for it will be to late to do.

So the bottom line I taxed it 6 months ago but this will not help me to be allowed to tax it again now... I have the car or I wouldn't be wanting to tax it.

This new method isn't the best way the old method was the best.

[Chris W]

:confused:

when i taxed my new car in may, i didn't have the renewal form, or the logbook because it had just been sent off by the previous owner, but he gave me the green slip (the part of the log book that he is supposed to give me) and i took this to the postoffice, filled in the appropriate form and got tax. Do you not have your green slip?

[Florence]

I taxed it 6 months ago using that they will not let me tax it a second time with it..

The problem is on hte old method I would have had the log book and when I taxed it they would have kept it and sent it to DVLA. This new method relies on the old owner sending up the log book and if they don't and you havent had nothing else to do but sit watching for a log book then you are screwed!

[Mick]

Well I got my shiny new V5 Registration form and can I just say its got a whole lot bigger...

[Florence]

Well I got my shiny new V5 Registration form and can I just say its got a whole lot bigger...

I only wish I had mine.... :( Looks like on the run upto xmas I am of the road when I need the car most and work isn't on a bus route so in the worst weather I have a long walk

[iain_herts]

hi i have a new car got it 5 weeks ago and no sign of it i foned up dvla and they have not recived it so wot u need to do is fill in a v62 form cost's £19 but if you have the green slip send that and u dont have to pay.but the green slip is only valid for the first 2 months im afrain.

iain

[Florence]

I have just been told that but in 5 days I have no tax on a car I need I wouldn't have bought it if it wasnt needed. public transport cannot get me to work without a diverting away then back on another road

[Escapee]

hi i have a new car got it 5 weeks ago and no sign of it i foned up dvla and they have not recived it so wot u need to do is fill in a v62 form cost's £19 but if you have the green slip send that and u dont have to pay.but the green slip is only valid for the first 2 months im afrain.

iain

I didn't realise they had started charging for V62's now, I used to fill them in quite regular.

The new system along with continuous taxing that I am sure will come into effect is what you get with this Labour government, don't forget this government also stopped the rolling 25 year exemption for classic cars.

The idiots appear to think things like making it difficult to obtain a new numberplate for your car, or making it almost impossible to tax your car will deter criminals.

Criminals do not give a s**t, it only affects law abiding citizens. :mad:

[Florence]

I didn't realise they had started charging for V62's now, I used to fill them in quite regular.

The new system along with continuous taxing that I am sure will come into effect is what you get with this Labour government, don't forget this government also stopped the rolling 25 year exemption for classic cars.

The idiots appear to think things like making it difficult to obtain a new numberplate for your car, or making it almost impossible to tax your car will deter criminals.

Criminals do not give a s**t, it only affects law abiding citizens. :mad:

Yes they charge £19 for them but the person I spoke to said they would wave that if I had the green slip. What I want to do is have the use of my car during the run up to xmas and stay legal. But no I have to be made to feel a criminal that I cannot use it until they have finished their security checks and sent out the log book.. it will be xmas if I am lucky and all the xmas shopping without the car even the money sitting in the bank waiting to pay could end up being used wrong time of year to refuse the money..

[gary_580]

Well I got my shiny new V5 Registration form and can I just say its got a whole lot bigger...

I had one of those a few months ago, its a whole lot bigger with nothing more on it than was on the old one!! Why did they bother replacing them for cars already on the road. They should have just issued them for new cars. :mad: Waste our money why not!!

[gary_580]

Kits, Surely if your car is insured and has a valid MOT (if it needs one) then your ok to drive whilst the investringate the Tax issue. Its not as if your not willing to pay or that the car is dangerous or not insured.

I'd call the local police station an ask them if you can drive without tax until its sorted by the DVLA. At the end of the day its not a problem caused by you.

Another point is

Ensure you inform DVLA if you sell, transfer, scrap or export the vehicle, otherwise you will remain liable for taxing it even though you have disposed of it. Once DVLA is notified about a sale/transfer we will issue an acknowledgement letter which you should keep safe.


sounds like your not responsible for taxing it

[Russ]

I had one of those a few months ago, its a whole lot bigger with nothing more on it than was on the old one!! Why did they bother replacing them for cars already on the road. They should have just issued them for new cars. :mad: Waste our money why not!!

Out of the DVLA's hands I'm afraid - all V5s had to be replaced to bring us in to line with European directives.

[gary_580]

Out of the DVLA's hands I'm afraid - all V5s had to be replaced to bring us in to line with European directives.

We always fall in line with european directives at our expense whilst other countries dont bother. Who are the mugs?

[Russ]

We always fall in line with european directives at our expense whilst other countries dont bother. Who are the mugs?

Usually us when we're the last country to comply, as in this instance :D

[gary_580]

Usually us when we're the last country to comply, as in this instance :D

id quote many other things like farming, fishing etc but that would be off topic. Too late already quoted ;)

[Florence]

Kits, Surely if your car is insured and has a valid MOT (if it needs one) then your ok to drive whilst the investringate the Tax issue. Its not as if your not willing to pay or that the car is dangerous or not insured.

I'd call the local police station an ask them if you can drive without tax until its sorted by the DVLA. At the end of the day its not a problem caused by you.

Another point is



sounds like your not responsible for taxing it

My luck I would get hte car confiscated and I can't afford to lose it wonder if I can go long term sick until it can be taxed or my working day will suddenly increase from 8.30 to 5pm to 7.45 to 5.40 and I still have to do all the household chores afterwards.

[carlingman]

Kits,

As you taxed it the last time with green slip then surely you would be on their system as the registered keeper ?????

If you are already registered as the vehicle keeper on the DVLA computer and there are no changes to your personal or vehicle details, you may apply for a duplicate by calling 0870 240 0010 using a debit/credit card for payment.

Also as the previous owner has failed to notify them then the charge is waived.

Surely the turn around time on that has got to better than waiting for the V62 to be completed and returned.

Information taken from here (http://www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/v62_newfee.htm)

If not maybe worth asking them for alternative as you are willing to pay etc. and the car is Insured and MOT.

:D

[Florence]

I taxed it last time on the green slip but apparently that doesn't throw up any flags saying the car has changed they wait until the log book arrives from the old keeper.

So my cheque was good enough last time and it was accepted with my address on the form I filled in but the DVLA still have the old Keepers name there and they are digging in their heels I cannot use it while its sorted out and I can't tax it until its sorted out. :mad: :afire: the new DVLA rules are :batty: the old method was better.

Edited to add I was on the phone for 30 mins as far as they are concerned I am not the registered keeper so its 4 to 6 weeks....

[SMHarman]

I taxed it last time on the green slip but apparently that doesn't throw up any flags saying the car has changed they wait until the log book arrives from the old keeper.

So my cheque was good enough last time and it was accepted with my address on the form I filled in but the DVLA still have the old Keepers name there and they are digging in their heels I cannot use it while its sorted out and I can't tax it until its sorted out. :mad: :afire: the new DVLA rules are :batty: the old method was better.

Edited to add I was on the phone for 30 mins as far as they are concerned I am not the registered keeper so its 4 to 6 weeks....
Then it's not your responsibility to tax it. Check with your insurer what this does to your insurance policy, the car has an MOT so it roadworthy.
You have made best efforts to tax it.

[Escapee]

Then it's not your responsibility to tax it. Check with your insurer what this does to your insurance policy, the car has an MOT so it roadworthy.
You have made best efforts to tax it.

I wonder if the previous owner has declared it SORN ! just a thought.

If not being the keeper (because he hasn't informed them otherwise) he is liable to a fine for the untaxed vehicle being on the highway.

I know the last thing you want is the car to be confiscated, but surely the person should be fined. They make enough threats about being fined if you dont provide the correct information.

I guess they must be idle threats when it comes to taking action!

[gary_580]

Then it's not your responsibility to tax it. Check with your insurer what this does to your insurance policy, the car has an MOT so it roadworthy.
You have made best efforts to tax it.

exactly the point i made earlier in the thread after speaking to a friend who works for the DVLA. However the advice was ignored and another "Yes But" was thrown back in.

[zoombini]

Just make sure that you get written details of as many dealing with this as possible. Even tape phone calls.
So that if/when you get in trouble for it that you have enough evidence to prove that you have been trying to tax it & that it was the DVLA that prevented it despite your best efforts to do so.

Also, when the tax runs out, if you do not use it then don't forget to do a SORN declaration irrespective of the logbook.

Sometinmes these rules make an ass of common sense.

[Florence]

The point is I can't do a SORN as I am not the registered keeper and only the registered keeper can do that.

I am actuallly thinking of seeing if anyone with a guarage will lock it inside for safety so its completely out of site. The thing is this is going to make my life hell I have two partime jobs with only 45mins from one stopping and the other starting. Public transport is a joke and of no use to get to work I have to go away from work first to catch another coming back to work. There is no straight through bus anymore. so one bus ride of 20 mins is now two bus rides of 55 mins.

[darren]

I had the same problem when I bought my car, the previous owner never sent back the green form. He did, however, give me the tax renewal form as it was about to expire when I bought it, which the post office were happy with.
After a few months I realised no log book had arrived and so I spoke to the DVLA, who basically said "tough paid the £19".

The worst of it is that I know the previous owner, which makes it even more annoying.

This new rule is stupid and I can see in this thread that others have had problems with it, they make it ridiculously difficult to own a car legally.

[gary_580]

The point is that the new process is there to stop people dumping cars. However if someone new is claiming ownership of a car by trying to tax it then logically you would expect the DVLA to transfer ownership. If you had stolen the car i wouldnt expect yuo would bother taxing it!

[bob_builder]

Then it's not your responsibility to tax it. Check with your insurer what this does to your insurance policy, the car has an MOT so it roadworthy.
You have made best efforts to tax it.
Good point, most car insurance terms state that you must be the legal owner of the car or the spouse of the owner. So technically, Kits has been illegally driving the car for the last six months so I am sure a few more will not make much difference.

Can't you put "Tax in Post" on your windsceen like DelBoy?

[Escapee]

Good point, most car insurance terms state that you must be the legal owner of the car or the spouse of the owner. So technically, Kits has been illegally driving the car for the last six months so I am sure a few more will not make much difference.

Can't you put "Tax in Post" on your windsceen like DelBoy?

The V5 has nothing to do with legal ownership or entitlement, its as it says registered keeper.

Most insurance policies state you must be the "owner or registered keeper"

If you buy the car on finance you don't own it anyway, but the V5 is still in your name not the finance companies.

[etccarmageddon]

correct - DVLA info does not relate to ownership. Kitts will have a receipt or other proof or the fact that she possesses it!

I'd suggest Kitts also explores making an official complaint about the DVLA and the way they have handled this. Usually this kind of kick up the backside gets results and also complain to your local MP - they're paid enough!

start writing letters cos you are the victim.

[KingPhoenix]

Kits, Surely if your car is insured and has a valid MOT (if it needs one) then your ok to drive whilst the investringate the Tax issue. Its not as if your not willing to pay or that the car is dangerous or not insured.

I'd call the local police station an ask them if you can drive without tax until its sorted by the DVLA. At the end of the day its not a problem caused by you.

Another point is



sounds like your not responsible for taxing it
I could be wrong, but im sure my insurance policy states that my insurance is only valid whilst my car is MOT'd and TAXed

[Florence]

I could be wrong, but im sure my insurance policy states that my insurance is only valid whilst my car is MOT'd and TAXed


True KingPhoenix.. but on a better note after talks with the AA and the local police I am on my way to the DVLA Manchester where I have a firm promise if I have all documentation including the out of date greenslip they will tax the car for me. I am off now to give it a try if this works I will have to say Manchester DVLA rocks.
Will post back when I return wish me luck.....

[Florence]

I have to say I couldn't have asked for a more helpful response the guys at Manchester DVLA was great they have taxed the car and sorting out the log book. He said the new log book should be with me in a month.

What a difference from the person on the phone at Swansea. They could have said go to my local DVLA but no it was send us the green slip with the V62 form and they would do security checks that take 4 to 6 weeks. She wouldn't give any help at all jsut said I couldn't use the car until the log book arrived. Sorry but Swansea DVLA really need to help those who contact with problems if I had stolen the car I certainly wouldn't tax it!

The final thing to do is Thank the two at Manchester DVLA you are both stars.

[Russ]

I could be wrong, but im sure my insurance policy states that my insurance is only valid whilst my car is MOT'd and TAXed

I used to work for Admiral Insurance and once asked that question - and it's no more than a common fallacy - a certificate of insurance is a legally-binding document. The law states that once you have it in your possession and it correctly relates to you and your vehicle, it must be honoured, irregardless of whether it's taxed/MOT'd.

[Mick]

I think times have changed now though Russ.

There is usually conditions attached surely in any insurance policy that if a vehicle is not taxed or MOT'd, then you are actually voiding your insurance and if a claim is made, the insurance company can turn round and invalidate the cover if they learn you were driving the car without a tax disc. Because, as we know - legally you cannot drive without a tax disc.

I've checked through my policy and there is a condition attached that I am covered if I am driving the car with a valid road fund license and a MOT certificate.

[Russ]

On the radio show each sunday we have a solicitor who comes on to answer people's legal questions - he was asked this very question last month and said if a company agrees to insure you and you hold a valid certificate, they are obliged to cover you. The only difference is to what extent - the legal minimum level of cover is called RTA (not third party fire and theft, contrary to popular belief, however you can no longer buy RTA cover) and this is the maximum level they will likely cover you for if you make a claim without tax and/or an MOT.

[Florence]

On the radio show each sunday we have a solicitor who comes on to answer people's legal questions - he was asked this very question last month and said if a company agrees to insure you and you hold a valid certificate, they are obliged to cover you. The only difference is to what extent - the legal minimum level of cover is called RTA (not third party fire and theft, contrary to popular belief, however you can no longer buy RTA cover) and this is the maximum level they will likely cover you for if you make a claim without tax and/or an MOT.

I checked my insurance document and it does quote that the insurance is only valid if the car is taxed and mot'd. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to test it

[Escapee]

I think times have changed now though Russ.

There is usually conditions attached surely in any insurance policy that if a vehicle is not taxed or MOT'd, then you are actually voiding your insurance and if a claim is made, the insurance company can turn round and invalidate the cover if they learn you were driving the car without a tax disc. Because, as we know - legally you cannot drive without a tax disc.

I've checked through my policy and there is a condition attached that I am covered if I am driving the car with a valid road fund license and a MOT certificate.


I think the TAX issue has arisen because authorities are now trying to clamp down on untaxed cars that are abandonded. Insurance companies don't want to have all the hassle and pay out on a car to find it was crushed by the local authority because it didn't have a TAX disc.

If your car was stolen and it didn't have a tax disc I can understand their angle, however I have a number of cars that are SORN and stored in garages. These vehicles are all insured, so are people here trying to say my cars are not insured just because they dont have little round disc in the window?

There have been instances recently in my area where the council have gone onto private property and removed vehicles without TAX discs, I understand there is currently a legal case in my area over such an instance.

Did you know if your car is in the street, TAX'd, MOT'd and Insured and someone comes along and smashed the window, the council could remove it and crush it because they would consider it a health/fire hazzard!

It has been happening, all red tape gone mad :rolleyes:

[Nugget]

<snip>If your car was stolen and it didn't have a tax disc I can understand their angle, however I have a number of cars that are SORN and stored in garages. These vehicles are all insured, so are people here trying to say my cars are not insured just because they dont have little round disc in the window?

Those cars must be insured as SORN is the alternative offered to tax by the DVLA. More pertinently, I'd like to know if you'd need to have them insured - I know that it's better for you in case something does happen to one of them but, if there all registered as off the road, is there a need for it?

[Russ]

I checked my insurance document and it does quote that the insurance is only valid if the car is taxed and mot'd. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to test it

What that means is you level of cover (comprehensive, third party fire and theft etc) is only valid if the car has tax and an MOT, so any claims you would make under that cover would only be honoured if you have the other documents for the vehicle. But the legal minimum cover, RTA which is similar to third party only, would still have to be honoured.

[bob_builder]

If your car was stolen and it didn't have a tax disc I can understand their angle, however I have a number of cars that are SORN and stored in garages. These vehicles are all insured, so are people here trying to say my cars are not insured just because they dont have little round disc in the window?
There appears to be some confusion here with the term "insurance".
When you insure your car you are effectively insuring it for two things. As Russ has pointed out, the legal minimum cover RTA, which is similar to third party only, is to insure your car on the road against other drivers. Any other insurance is to insure your car's property against fire, theft, damage, breaking-down, etc. wherever the car is.

As Russ has pointed out, the RTA cover will be unaffected by lack of tax disc, etc. but any other insurance might depending on the wording of your policy.

I imagine that Escapee's SORN cars are insured against damage and theft but do not have RTA cover as they are obviously not intended to be driven. This insurance would be more like home insurance than car insurance.

[Florence]

If your car was stolen and it didn't have a tax disc I can understand their angle, however I have a number of cars that are SORN and stored in garages. These vehicles are all insured, so are people here trying to say my cars are not insured just because they dont have little round disc in the window?

There have been instances recently in my area where the council have gone onto private property and removed vehicles without TAX discs, I understand there is currently a legal case in my area over such an instance.


It has been happening, all red tape gone mad :rolleyes:

This was my worry apparently they have done this in our area as I was informed by a policeman. I was stuck in the middle I couldn't do a SORN as I wasn't the registered keeper! so it would have sat on my drive in full veiw while I was out longer than normal due to the route the public transport takes to get to my place of work.

All Swansea DVLA had to say was visit my local DVLA office.. Instead she insisted there was now way to tax the car and it would be off the road 4 to 6 weeks!!! that is the most annoying part.

I wonder if Swansea is the best place for the main DVLA offices just makes you think what her motive was not telling me the truth.

[Escapee]

Those cars must be insured as SORN is the alternative offered to tax by the DVLA. More pertinently, I'd like to know if you'd need to have them insured - I know that it's better for you in case something does happen to one of them but, if there all registered as off the road, is there a need for it?


I use them as I need, so it's easier to keep them on the policy. Removing cars from the policy doesn't have a great deal of affect on the cost when they are covered by a multi car policy.

Most insurance companies have an off road cover that costs £50 a year, so it would cost me more to insure them as off-road vehicles than vehicles on a multi car policy. Strange but true!

I have confirmed with my insurance company about this, although the one question (without going offf topic too much) they have been unable to answer is "Am I covered if I am towing one vehicle behind thye other on a trailer/dolly and they are both on the same policy"

I have never done this because my camper van is on a seperate policy, but it was interesting that they couldn't answer that one and they are the leading company dealing with multi car classic policies.

PS: I also have one vehicle that I declared SORN about three years ago and they have never been in contact about renewing the SORN.
Funny though I recently received a new style V5 for that vehicle, I seem to be getting a constant flow of new V5's these days. :D

[SMHarman]

Yes you are covered for the towing scenaro, there are a number of parallels to draw. A fire that wiped out the collection would result in payout on all cars, not just the first.

A multicar company car policy would payout for damage to both cars if one hit the other in say the company car park.