View Full Version : A Levels and us students being demeaned
Dave Stones
12-08-2003, 18:37
just thought i'd bring this up what with me getting my a level results published on thursday morning *hurray*.
yet again i see the churn has already started regarding how easy our exams are how much the pass rate has gone up and how we are all getting dumber by the minute because our exams are easier etc etc the list goes on...
i wonder why all these people insist on demeaning our achievements? i for one have worked damn hard over the past 2 years towards my a levels and personally would punch anyone in the nose if they said to my face that my exams were becoming worthless.
it would be interesting to see just how some of the "old-timers" that say this could cope with our modular system of exams, instead of just having one big one at the end of the year. personally i think they would not do as well as they have not been brought up in that environment, similarly i would not perform well doing their "old" a levels, as i have not being taught that way...
well thats enough ranting for the moment i just wanted to let off steam i hate this thing every year people saying how stupid our students are becoming... :mad:
yet again i see the churn has already started regarding how easy our exams are how much the pass rate has gone up and how we are all getting dumber by the minute because our exams are easier etc etc the list goes on... Wait till you see our public schools...
I thought it was telling when they gave the old eleven plus exam (meant for 11 year olds in the 1950's) to a bunch of 15 year olds now and all bar one or two failed. Hows that for dumbing down?:shrug:
Dave Stones
12-08-2003, 19:14
Originally posted by Ramrod
I thought it was telling when they gave the old eleven plus exam (meant for 11 year olds in the 1950's) to a bunch of 15 year olds now and all bar one or two failed. Hows that for dumbing down?:shrug:
maybe so. but we haven't been taught in the same way as people from then... we are used to having several exams each with different aspects to the course on them, not one massive essay to do.
unfortunately i have missed that programme so far...
Originally posted by Dave Stones
maybe so. but we haven't been taught in the same way as people from then... we are used to having several exams each with different aspects to the course on them, not one massive essay to do. I dunno m8, the exam they took was a series of questions requiring logic, maths and linguistic skills. These things are what kids are meant to be being taught now.
unfortunately i have missed that programme so far... It's a hoot:D
russellelly
12-08-2003, 19:39
Good luck David for your results David. I got my Standard Grade results oday (Scottish GCSE equivalent) and got eight 1s so am pretty chuffed :)
Yes, good luck m8 :)
...and well done russellelly:)
Dave Stones
12-08-2003, 22:12
Originally posted by russellelly
Good luck David for your results David. I got my Standard Grade results oday (Scottish GCSE equivalent) and got eight 1s so am pretty chuffed :)
thank you russellelly you are very welcome russellelly ;)
i dont hold out much confidence really... i know i did absolutey pants in my maths exam.
well i might post my results somewhere if im not too "busy" down the pub...
I looked at a sample Information Technology Higher Tier GCSE paper, compared to the computer studies O level I took years back it was pathetically simple, example questions included "Name an operating system you are familiar with" ..
timewarrior2001
13-08-2003, 09:06
When I left school in 1992, I decide don college, because I paid little attention at school I didnt have the required 4 C grades to get onto an A level course so I had to resit my GCSE's. Thsi put me a year behind all my mates.
They struggled like hell to do their A levels just to get into University, some decided against Uni and went for a job.
What a surprise A levels are absolutely useless unless you want to go to Uni. In the working environment they count for diddly squat.
I think some of the exams are easy, its the course work thats tough, its the amount of work that has to be put in. Yes some of the questions are ridiculous but some are neigh on impossible.
I've always said Exams dont mark you on what you know, they show what you remembered on a specific date in question.
Now I started My A levels, in Design Technology and art. I dropped out to join the RAF and never completed the course. Later I started studying A level chemistry and it was pretty tough going, but then I was attempting a 2 year course in 1 year. I failed anyway.
Its this that lead to me the City and guilds examinations and I tell you what, these carry more weight from companies then straight A's at A level.
I feel that the system is useless, and unless you want a degree skip the A levels, pursue an alternative qualification.
However to those that are currently awaiting results/studying their A levels, good luck, and I hope you achieve the grades you require for Uni.
One more bit opf advise, I failed, but have watched the successes and falls of my mates, I knwo a guy that got a 2-1 in civil engineering and is working for min wage. Just bear it in mind please.
duncant403
13-08-2003, 09:42
Originally posted by Ramrod
I dunno m8, the exam they took was a series of questions requiring logic, maths and linguistic skills. These things are what kids are meant to be being taught now.
Some of these things are not taught anymore (and that's not the kids' fault). The grammar test on last night's program was very telling (and hopefully I haven't made any errors in those last two sentences...)
While the maths is still taught, it is taught in a very different way largely due to the wide availability of calculators. How many here were taught long multiplication and long division? (I was, but I'm not sure I can remember how to do long division). While I can still do long multiplication, I don't choose to - it's far easier to use a calculator so why should I do it by hand?
A lot of the skills taught at schools in the 1950's are no longer relevant in today's society.
That doesn't mean that modern exams are easier; just different.
Dave Stones
13-08-2003, 10:12
Originally posted by duncant403
Some of these things are not taught anymore (and that's not the kids' fault). The grammar test on last night's program was very telling (and hopefully I haven't made any errors in those last two sentences...)
While the maths is still taught, it is taught in a very different way largely due to the wide availability of calculators. How many here were taught long multiplication and long division? (I was, but I'm not sure I can remember how to do long division). While I can still do long multiplication, I don't choose to - it's far easier to use a calculator so why should I do it by hand?
A lot of the skills taught at schools in the 1950's are no longer relevant in today's society.
That doesn't mean that modern exams are easier; just different.
i taped that prog last night plan to watch it today to see just how "bad" school was back then, and how it compares to what mother and father claim it to be (walking 15 miles to school thru 10 foot snowdrifts etc etc ive heard it all)
i was never ever taught long division, long multiplication we had to know up to gcse though (we actually had a non-calculator test in that :eek::eek: but im proud to say i got a A in GCSE maths :D)
and as for mental arithmetic.. well... tbh i agree. if people need stuff working out they ask me cos i can work some things out faster than they can put them in their calculator. i was taught mental maths at primary school, i guess some of these people werent...
and thanks for telling you about your friend timewarrior2001 thats really put the wind in my sails :rolleyes: im about to embark on a 5 year mechanical engineering degree, il hang myself if i come out of that with minimum wage :cry: :cry: :cry: :shocked:
I took O-levels and the (then)new CSE's.The latter were appallingly easy but required a lot more work.I had to read 15-30 books for the literature section(EASY for me as I love reading)and answer some pretty easy reading comprehension questions,write a letter and do an essay or two.For the O-level english I just had to do two papers with the usual reading comprehension,an essay or two,a letter and at least one precis of a unseen written task.
Not easy but a lot less work to do across the two years.
I also got to observe through the lab window the new CSE science practical exam which was SOOOO easy.
I then went on to do A-levels.Very hard work as I remember it.
However as a teacher,many moons later I saw the demise of the O-levels and CSE'c.Before this I saw some of the last Science papers produced for the two exams.All I can say is that both papers were covering work I did for my Science A-levels which I thought was quite a long stretch from what I learned for my 0-level science.
The big difference from the old 0-levels I think was that the student who knew they were bad at remembering facts for an exam could work very hard on the course work knowing that all they had to do was just obtain a pass mark in the exams to get a reasonable pass mark over all.
I think it is really time that all the dinosaurs realised that exams are not the only way to evaluate intelligence,ability and talent.
What facts I remember from all that cramming I'm not sure.Much of it I've forgotten-that I am sure of.The only parts I retain are those that I use on a regular basis in my everyday life.Where as any research that I've bothered to do on my own for my own interests has stayed with me.
So just what are exams supposed to prove?That one is good at remembering facts for a short time?Or should it be about how you use those facts and research in your life and future job.I think the most useful tool to come out of GCSE's and modular course work is that if you don't know a fact look it up.After all in the subjects of science,history and geography facts are constantly changing and have changed drastically since I obtained a pass in them.Also there is a much larger curriculum than when I attended school as a student which makes for a greater stress.So why the heck are we making 6th form students do more exams?
I have heard this past week something in the news about how schools should skip GCSE's and go straight to AS levels?WHY?
Well I'm losing the thread a little here but I feel that we cannot go back to old ways of thinking in education.That there are parts of the system that perhaps need changing but let us not throw away everything we have arrived at because some of it is good.
It might be nice IF just one government would allow a real evaluation of the whole system before resorting to a kneejerk reaction and changing some aspect after a couple of years.After all there were calls this year to drop the AS levels less than two years after they were introduced.I've actually lost count of how many changes and education bills the Conservatives passed during their 17/18 year tenure as government.Seems to me that every week there is a new(leaked)proposal to change some aspect of the education of this country.
I just wish however that this present government would drop the student loans scheme and bring back a GRANTS system.Fat chance of that I fear.
Incog.:(
timewarrior2001
13-08-2003, 11:06
Originally posted by Dave Stones
and thanks for telling you about your friend timewarrior2001 thats really put the wind in my sails :rolleyes: im about to embark on a 5 year mechanical engineering degree, il hang myself if i come out of that with minimum wage :cry: :cry: :cry: :shocked:
I also have another friend that got a degree in micro electronics and he earns less than 20K a year.
Its funny, I can earn similar wages of some of my mates by testing computer games. I wished to god I had gone to Uni now. My computer qualifications arent that great, I got an advanced diploma from city and guilds in networking. I still cant find employment working in IT. It because I have been in and out of work, doing everything from labouring to security guard.
Just keep your options open, mech engineers are sought after atm, but be ready to look at another branch of engineering if the need arises.
Dave Stones
13-08-2003, 12:33
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
I also have another friend that got a degree in micro electronics and he earns less than 20K a year.
Its funny, I can earn similar wages of some of my mates by testing computer games. I wished to god I had gone to Uni now. My computer qualifications arent that great, I got an advanced diploma from city and guilds in networking. I still cant find employment working in IT. It because I have been in and out of work, doing everything from labouring to security guard.
Just keep your options open, mech engineers are sought after atm, but be ready to look at another branch of engineering if the need arises.
i suppose im lucky really, the course i intend to do at birmingham is one where i can pick and choose modules, so if i look in the news and see that mech engineers are no longer in demand and eg automotive ones are, i can just switch from the next module to automotive if i want. id end up with a pretty chopped up degree but the option is there...
and yes incog i wish the grants system would come back :cry:. i hate the prospect of being 15 grand in debt in a few years time...
Good luck for tomorrow Dave !! Download Failed (1)
Waiting for results is a nightmare.... and we've all done it at one point.... some of us many times :(
Hope they're even better than you hope :)
Originally posted by Dave Stones
and yes incog i wish the grants system would come back :cry:. i hate the prospect of being 15 grand in debt in a few years time... I was 12k in debt. Paid it off in 3 years:D
How the heck did you manage that if it's not too personal a question?
I'm interested because I've got one child going through uni at the moment and a 15 year old wanting to go the same route.It's proving a bl**dy struggle with just the one let alone two.
I never,ever thought that I would see a labour government abolish grants.Trouble is there is no one else who will return to the grant system who is likely to get into power.
Incog:mad:
I took my A-Levels in 1998. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that maths (in particular) has got easier since then. I gave my brother (who took it this year) some of my old papers to practise on, and he didn't have a clue.
I'm sorry, but it's true. Punch me on the nose if you want.
You might also want to explain how come my old Uni had to put remedial classes on for the first time ever (again, for maths) for last year's entry, as so many people were finding the first year too tough. And that's after they raised their entry requirements by two points, too...
Dave Stones
13-08-2003, 22:06
Originally posted by Tristan
I took my A-Levels in 1998. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that maths (in particular) has got easier since then. I gave my brother (who took it this year) some of my old papers to practise on, and he didn't have a clue.
I'm sorry, but it's true. Punch me on the nose if you want.
You might also want to explain how come my old Uni had to put remedial classes on for the first time ever (again, for maths) for last year's entry, as so many people were finding the first year too tough. And that's after they raised their entry requirements by two points, too...
yes i did all my brothers old practise papers.. we got given the same ones in class and i managed alrite :D
incidentally just as a gloat my college is top of the guardian league tables for the second year running :D:D:D:D:D
go greenhead whoooo
now lets wait til tomorrow and see if i get the 3 Bs i need... :shrug:
grum1978
13-08-2003, 22:12
Good luck to everyone tomorrow who are getting results '':cool:
Dave Stones
13-08-2003, 22:13
Originally posted by grum1978
Good luck to everyone tomorrow who are getting results '':cool:
i think its just me on here... no one else seems to be as young and virile as me ;)
[edit] except kronas but hes younger and less virile :p
Dave Stones
14-08-2003, 17:58
we hey im off to birmingham university...
got a B in physics 422/600
got a C in maths 418/600
got a C in chemistry 411/600
whooo
anyway now im off out again...
Congratulations Dave. Well done ;)
grum1978
14-08-2003, 18:13
Nice one Dave hope you have a few :beer: tonight to celebrate :D
Dave Stones
14-08-2003, 18:24
Originally posted by grum1978
Nice one Dave hope you have a few :beer: tonight to celebrate :D
oh my yes... first stop is heaven and hell its only £1 a drink for any drink whooooo
:beer:
:drunk: :drunk:
:sick: :sick: :sick:
Originally posted by Dave Stones
oh my yes... first stop is heaven and hell its only £1 a drink for any drink whooooo
:beer:
:drunk: :drunk:
:sick: :sick: :sick: Have fun, well done m8:)
homealone
14-08-2003, 19:16
Nice one Dave :smokin:
Have one for me mate! :beer:
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