View Full Version : Company I work for is going bust...
I need some advice regarding employment law. I have worked for a company on continuous employment for nearly 3.5 years (5.5 non-continuous). We were told a few weeks back that the company is having financial problems and we advised to seek alternative employment ASAP. :disturbd:
I have received no formal written notice of contract termination or company financial situation.
I have been paid my Sept salary (working on the basis of 2weeks behind and 2 week ahead and paid on the 15th of each month). But I have been told no money is availble for October.
I have been told that the bank are getting involved and are sending the 'Business Support Team' in. Are they the administrators? :disturbd: Also the bank have told the company to close and lock awayt he company cheque book.
The advise I am seeking really is:
1. Are the company legally bound to give me notice, my contract states 3 months.
2. Am I likely to get paid even if the company cheque book is closed, are they legally bound to pay salaries.
3. What government policies are in place to cover me/protect me?
4. I have about £100 in unpaid expenses, how to I get this back?
5. I've been paid upto Thursday, last day in Sept, what should I do on Friday! I can't afford not to work, is there a chance that if I work I'llget paid somehow?
Any advice on the above or anything relevant would be great.
p.s. I've been looking for jobs and have a few good leads :)
Richard M
26-09-2004, 11:59
Quit on Friday and get another job asap!
Graham M
26-09-2004, 12:10
Yeah but what about the legalities of his pay?
homealone
26-09-2004, 12:13
lots of info available in the link
http://www.emplaw.co.uk/emplaw/employeehome/information.aspx
- sorry to hear of your problem, Caspar, I hope it gets sorted :tu:
I need some advice regarding employment law. I have worked for a company on continuous employment for nearly 3.5 years (5.5 non-continuous). We were told a few weeks back that the company is having financial problems and we advised to seek alternative employment ASAP. :disturbd:
I have received no formal written notice of contract termination or company financial situation.
I have been paid my Sept salary (working on the basis of 2weeks behind and 2 week ahead and paid on the 15th of each month). But I have been told no money is availble for October.
I have been told that the bank are getting involved and are sending the 'Business Support Team' in. Are they the administrators? :disturbd: Also the bank have told the company to close and lock awayt he company cheque book.
The advise I am seeking really is:
1. Are the company legally bound to give me notice, my contract states 3 months.
2. Am I likely to get paid even if the company cheque book is closed, are they legally bound to pay salaries.
3. What government policies are in place to cover me/protect me?
4. I have about £100 in unpaid expenses, how to I get this back?
5. I've been paid upto Thursday, last day in Sept, what should I do on Friday! I can't afford not to work, is there a chance that if I work I'llget paid somehow?
Any advice on the above or anything relevant would be great.
p.s. I've been looking for jobs and have a few good leads :)
My experience is limited with this, but i did work for a company that went into administration a number of years ago, they came in forst to see if the company was viable to continue trading until they sought a buyer. Fortunately it was part of a larger group and we were making a small profit for the first time in many years. I remember the fuel cards were cancelled for company vehicles and we had trouble with the wages being paid late because the banks put a blanket stop on all transactions across the whole group. I received a letter from the administrators bout claiming any unpaid monies, and the people who were made redundant are able to claim their redundancy pay from the government, unfortunately I think they only got the statuatory state payments.
If you have anything else specific to ask, I may be able to jog the old memory cells.
I think your next move all boils down to a few points.
1) can you walk into another job
2) how much cash would you get if they go bust
3) Is the company likely to be sold as a going concern
I remember them coming around and listing all the assets, I had a big argument and got very aggressive with some administrator idiot who tried to list my compressor as a company asset. He said I couldn't remove it, and I ended up telling him I would like to see him try and stop me!
PS: A few of us removed some expensive test equipment in case we didn't get paid! :D
etccarmageddon
26-09-2004, 12:22
if they cant pay you due to lack of funds they will be in breach of contract and you'll become a creditor like all the other people they owe money to - you'll be in a queue but the inland revenue will come first!
the bottom line is - you dont want to work in a company like this so get interviewing etc right now.
the statutory redundancy can be paid by the goverment, if your company goes tits up - but it will only amount to a few hundred quid. something like £250 for each year you have worked there.
with regards to the upaid expenses - from what other people I know have experienced I think you will never see that money.
what's the name of the company - pm me the details and I'll see what i can find out.
SMHarman
26-09-2004, 12:29
I have been told that the bank are getting involved and are sending the 'Business Support Team' in. Are they the administrators? :disturbd: Also the bank have told the company to close and lock awayt he company cheque book.
The advise I am seeking really is:
1. Are the company legally bound to give me notice, my contract states 3 months.
2. Am I likely to get paid even if the company cheque book is closed, are they legally bound to pay salaries.
3. What government policies are in place to cover me/protect me?
4. I have about £100 in unpaid expenses, how to I get this back?
5. I've been paid upto Thursday, last day in Sept, what should I do on Friday! I can't afford not to work, is there a chance that if I work I'llget paid somehow?
Any advice on the above or anything relevant would be great.
p.s. I've been looking for jobs and have a few good leads :)
Business support team is not the administrators (yet), the banks are the last in line to get their money back in a liquidation (and don't normally get it all), so it is in their interests to see if this is a going concern that needs financial support or worth pulling the plug. You probably have a good idea about this yourself. Are you winning contracts, are you cutting prices, cutting corners etc. Are all ee's busy.
The company is leally liable to pay you your 3 months notice, however if there is no money you will never see it.
Get paid, that depends on the banks. If the directors have been told to lock up the cheque book, the company is probably tecnically insolvent, and trading / making payments puts them at liablity, thus no money no pay.
This could be cashflow, some contracts not paying on time etc, in which case business support teams are good to see.
Govt policies, if they have not been paying your tax and NI then as long as you have your pay slips to prove it was deducted from your pay cheque you can present that to the IR / NI as evidence. You will need this for your tax returns and to ensure your NI stamp is up to date for pension / benefits.
Put in a claim for the expenses, if you do not claim, they will not go on the list of creditors. Don't incur any more expenses, you may well not see them paid, even if it is a corp credit card you are jointly liable for the expense.
Monday, ask what the state of employment is, not turning up though will mean you have terminated your employment and will forefit your 3 m notice claim. If the bank consider it viable, there may well be bonuses for key ees to ensure the company remains viable, it is very easy for this sort of situation to become self fulfilling as the suppliers withdraw credit, staff withdrew labour and as a result customers cannot be serviced.
Lastly good luck and keep those recruitment options open.
Get paid, that depends on the banks. If the directors have been told to lock up the cheque book, the company is probably tecnically insolvent, and trading / making payments puts them at liablity, thus no money no pay.
This could be cashflow, some contracts not paying on time etc, in which case business support teams are good to see.
Lastly good luck and keep those recruitment options open.
In my situation, they stopped all transactions but did a U-turn as soon as they realised our part of the group although not worth much were actually turning in a small annual profit. The main group however were in a very bad state and I think Maxwells fraudulant practices have gone down in history.
I think its a good idea to weigh up the situation because every example is different, it turned out OK for us because four managers bought the company for just under a million pounds.
Things only turned sour when they run it without investing any cash and split the company in half to sell part of it to another company for 10 Million pounds :shocked:
Yes BUY for less than a million keep it ticking over and sell half for 10 million!
They were lucky to find a company with more money than sense to pay 20 times over the odds for it......... Yes our very own ntl!!!!!!!!!!!!
greencreeper
26-09-2004, 19:30
I'm with Richard - forget your rights and everything, just get out now before you end up slung out.
Tezcatlipoca
26-09-2004, 19:54
Sorry to hear about your job problems, Cas :( I hope you find a new one soon :)
I'm sure I will and have some hot leads :)
...my only concern is what are my, and my colleagues', rights and also where my next month's pay is coming from!
Florence
26-09-2004, 21:35
I'm sure I will and have some hot leads :)
...my only concern is what are my, and my colleagues', rights and also where my next month's pay is coming from!
I should ask these questions suppose there is nothing you can take home to cover your wages if they failed to pay you?
should follow the hot leads up very quickly and if offered start immediately.. as for any company thet you do regular payments to contact them and explain but only after you have spoken to your Bank who might help you for a few months.
bob_a_builder
26-09-2004, 22:00
sorry to hear about your situation Caspar,
sorry to be selfish, but can we enquire if that has any bearing on the i-web hosting deals some of us round here might have just signed up for or is that er.. seperate
sorry to hear about your situation Caspar,
sorry to be selfish, but can we enquire if that has any bearing on the i-web hosting deals some of us round here might have just signed up for or is that er.. seperate
No problem in asking :)
No I'm not talking about I-Web Solutions, I only work for them on a part-time (for free) basis! :)
homealone
26-09-2004, 23:04
No problem in asking :)
No I'm not talking about I-Web Solutions, I only work for them on a part-time (for free) basis! :)
you do a damn good job, for them, - windows hosting, wise, any endorsements you want, just ask :)
I'm with Richard - forget your rights and everything, just get out now before you end up slung out.
NO, No !! Wait until you are pushed ! That way you have many more rights than if you resign (leave) not least with regard to any pay (max 8 weeks x £270), redundancy (£270 x qualifying years), pay in lieu of notice and Social Benefits you may be entitled to. This has to be paid by the administrators (after the Inland Revenue) or the Govt (I think). See here (.pdf) (http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/rpbooklet.pdf)
By all means look for alternative employment and even take up another job, but do not leave with no other job, that would be stoopid !
Basa just beat me to it.
I wouldn't leave until you are pushed otherwise you'll lose out on all sorts of benefits - not much, I know, but every little helps when there's lots of outgoings and few incommings. As Kits says, also look around for kit or anything else valuable to take away in lieu of cash.
But I'm sure a keen and sharp man like you (remember, we met at Manchester) will have no problems finding a job quickly.
Thanks everyone :)
Basa - I'll have a read of that PDF :tu:
With regard to notice period, my contract states 3 months. Does the company have to give me 3 months notice, assuming it stays in business but wants to get rid of me?
Do they have to give written notice of employment loss, if there's redundancy is it from point of a written notice or when we were verbally told a few weeks back?
SMHarman
27-09-2004, 13:29
Notice does not have to be written, but it helps, more importantly notice has to be recieved to be effective. There has just been a case where notice was sent by post to someone on holiday, their notice period was deemed to start on the day their post was sent after they got back from holiday (taking their total employment to over 12 months and allowing an unfair dismissal case).
Yes they have to compensate you or keep you employed for those three months, provided they are paying you this could even be gardening leave where you are at home but cannot work for them or anyone else.
You have not been told anything about reduncancy formally, just about the financial situation of your eer.
Notice does not have to be written, but it helps, more importantly notice has to be recieved to be effective. There has just been a case where notice was sent by post to someone on holiday, their notice period was deemed to start on the day their post was sent after they got back from holiday (taking their total employment to over 12 months and allowing an unfair dismissal case).
Yes they have to compensate you or keep you employed for those three months, provided they are paying you this could even be gardening leave where you are at home but cannot work for them or anyone else.
You have not been told anything about reduncancy formally, just about the financial situation of your eer.
We have only been advised, verbally, to seek alternative employment. This was approx 1st week Sept.
SMHarman
27-09-2004, 13:53
We have only been advised, verbally, to seek alternative employment. This was approx 1st week Sept.
That is not notice of termination of employment though.
have a look at this link : http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company-rescue/guides/creditors.html
your arrears (up to the day you cease working for the company) are fairly high up the list, but any notice period pay will come way down the list unfortunately...
paulyoung666
27-09-2004, 17:25
That is not notice of termination of employment though.
and i will second that , where i work we were all put on 90 days notice , it is a legal requirement as far as i know , i dont suppose you are in a union , if you are then i would go and ring them up and ask :)
and i will second that , where i work we were all put on 90 days notice , it is a legal requirement as far as i know , i dont suppose you are in a union , if you are then i would go and ring them up and ask :)
I have twice been on 90 day notice for two different companies, the one company didn't put me on garden leave and I didn't even get notified when my job was safe. I asked HR and they didn't seem to know, I asked for redundancy and they said "NO", I asked if they would confirm if I was going to be made redundant soon and they couldn't tell me, I left within 6 weeks and guess that's exactly what they wanted people to do.
The next time I was on 90 days notice was great, I had already spent approx 3 weeks at home cos there was no work, they said you are on 90 day notice stay at home. After that period I had been with the company for about 9 months and they gave me a cheque for nearly 13 grand to go.
I must say though I much preferred the old system when I got made redundant back in 1987, I arrived for work on a Tuesday and was told your'e redundant, come back in tomorrow to collect your cheque. I had an offer to start work the following day in a better job, but put them off until the following Monday, it was great two months pay in the bank and straight into another job.
It's a shame things are not so good these days though, theres not so many good jobs about now. I think it would be difficult for me to find a comparable job in the current climate.
Tezcatlipoca
27-09-2004, 19:22
How many people are going to be made redundant, Cas?
I'm sure if it's over 20 (?), there has to be some sort of "consulation period".
And, of course, as others have said, they still need to give you proper notice, rather than just verbally say "seek alternative employment".
Have you tried your local CAB (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/)? Lots of info available there. I got some good advice from mine, when I thought I was going to be made redundant last summer.
etccarmageddon
28-09-2004, 08:30
How many people are going to be made redundant, Cas?
I'm sure if it's over 20 (?), there has to be some sort of "consulation period".
And, of course, as others have said, they still need to give you proper notice, rather than just verbally say "seek alternative employment".
Have you tried your local CAB (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/)? Lots of info available there. I got some good advice from mine, when I thought I was going to be made redundant last summer.
I think if a company has 20 or more staff then you have more rights as it's no longer classed as a small company. regardless of size, you need to go through the correct process when making staff redundant which includes consultation.
As far as I remember, the consultation period is the 90 days prior to being told that you ARE being made redundant (sorry, it's been a while since I was, but it did mean that I got to work with my little friend homealone :) ).
When it happened to me, we were told on the 29th February and the notice period started then (although they staggered the times that everyone left) - I'd only been in the job for just under 2 years, so I would have received minimal redundancy so, when I was told to apply for the job where Gaz worked, I jumped ship. However, if you've been there for a decent length of time, it's worth hanging on to first see what your redundancy package will be and, as has already been said, to protect your potential benefits.
If the 'irons in the fire' that you have really want you, it might be worth seeing if they'll hang on before you start with them.
The company is about 10, it's already been shrunk from 15 over the last year.
there are only 3 ees, 2 FT perm and 1 FT temp. The rest are directors.
I've been with them for just under 3.5 years.
etccarmageddon
05-10-2004, 18:04
what's the latest Caspar - any more news?
Well, I've had a few interviews which went ok, waiting to hear about one.
I'm also in contract discussions with one company. A really good sounding job, will let you know when and if we agree on contracts :)
etccarmageddon
05-10-2004, 18:34
excellent! you're doing the right thing.
I need some advice regarding employment law. I have worked for a company on continuous employment for nearly 3.5 years (5.5 non-continuous). We were told a few weeks back that the company is having financial problems and we advised to seek alternative employment ASAP. :disturbd:
I have received no formal written notice of contract termination or company financial situation.
I have been paid my Sept salary (working on the basis of 2weeks behind and 2 week ahead and paid on the 15th of each month). But I have been told no money is availble for October.
I have been told that the bank are getting involved and are sending the 'Business Support Team' in. Are they the administrators? :disturbd: Also the bank have told the company to close and lock awayt he company cheque book.
The advise I am seeking really is:
1. Are the company legally bound to give me notice, my contract states 3 months.
2. Am I likely to get paid even if the company cheque book is closed, are they legally bound to pay salaries.
3. What government policies are in place to cover me/protect me?
4. I have about £100 in unpaid expenses, how to I get this back?
5. I've been paid upto Thursday, last day in Sept, what should I do on Friday! I can't afford not to work, is there a chance that if I work I'llget paid somehow?
Any advice on the above or anything relevant would be great.
p.s. I've been looking for jobs and have a few good leads :)
I'd make sure I came out with some stuff of value like a few monitors, printers, towers etc etc.
paulyoung666
05-10-2004, 19:28
I'd make sure I came out with some stuff of value like a few monitors, printers, towers etc etc.
yup good idea , theft , straight to court do not pass go , go directly to jail :rolleyes:
Ok, here's an update :)
After a few interviews, near and far, I've been offered the IT Manager role for a new Call Centre based in Manchester.
The parent company is very expereinced and been in the market over 20 years, which is good and exactly what I need...I don't want to be in this situation again! :(
Although I have 3 months notice on my current contract the old/current company have been very good and are agreeing to me starting the new job on the 20th October!
It's a good role, a mix of IT and ASP/MSSQL development...so it'll for sure keep me busy! especially since my contract states that the Working Time Regulations (48hours) won't apply to me! :erm: :)
Not sure what else to add other than a BIG thank you for everyone's advise and support over the last few weeks :) especially KingPhoenix for putting up with my moaning! :disturbd: :p: ;) :tu:
Nice one mate, I thought you might take it :) :tu:
Make sure "surfing forums" is in the contract too ;)
Nice one mate - it's good to see you're getting sorted :tu:
yup good idea , theft , straight to court do not pass go , go directly to jail :rolleyes:
And what about the money he is owed? Will they the go straight to jail? I doubt somehow.
Ok, here's an update :)
After a few interviews, near and far, I've been offered the IT Manager role for a new Call Centre based in Manchester.
Any other jobs going there?????? :D :D :D
SMHarman
08-10-2004, 11:18
And what about the money he is owed? Will they the go straight to jail? I doubt somehow.
Who'se they? The company owes him the money, not the directors, unless the company can be proved to be trading whilst insolvent.
The company will cease to be, so it cannot go to jail, pay is a priorty creditor, so when these things you suggest he walks off with are sold off he will be one of the first in line for proceeds.
Whilst theft sounds a good idea, it is hardly the action of a good honest citizen or employee.
Any other jobs going there?????? :D :D :D
Probably YES Debs! The company will need circa 15 operators by end of November and then double again soon after.
Send me a PM if you like with your details and I will certainly put you forward... :)
homealone
08-10-2004, 12:40
Glad you got sorted, Caspar, I hope you enjoy your new role - don't put in too many hours over the 48, though ;)
Janusian
08-10-2004, 15:21
I worked for a company that went bust about 3 years ago. I would have been due 3 months notice etc etc, in fact I got two weeks statutory notice pay at £240 per week and two weeks redundancy money (for the two years I was there) at £240 per week.
I am technically still owed the rest, but I am a creditor along with thousands of others, and clients etc.
Simple fact is that whatever you are legally due, unless the company has the money you ain't going to get it.
Florence
08-10-2004, 17:22
Probably YES Debs! The company will need circa 15 operators by end of November and then double again soon after.
Send me a PM if you like with your details and I will certainly put you forward... :)
Well Done Casper glad you found a job that suits you perhaps some of the over 48 hours could be working from home.
Please Don't take our Debsy away :'(
Tezcatlipoca
08-10-2004, 20:29
Ok, here's an update :)
After a few interviews, near and far, I've been offered the IT Manager role for a new Call Centre based in Manchester.
The parent company is very expereinced and been in the market over 20 years, which is good and exactly what I need...I don't want to be in this situation again! :(
Although I have 3 months notice on my current contract the old/current company have been very good and are agreeing to me starting the new job on the 20th October!
It's a good role, a mix of IT and ASP/MSSQL development...so it'll for sure keep me busy! especially since my contract states that the Working Time Regulations (48hours) won't apply to me! :erm: :)
Not sure what else to add other than a BIG thank you for everyone's advise and support over the last few weeks :) especially KingPhoenix for putting up with my moaning! :disturbd: :p: ;) :tu:
Very good news, Cas! :)
:Yikes: My email inbox is EMPTY!!!! :Yikes:
Some emails (job tasks) were just accidentally deleted :erm: ;)
:angel:
homealone
14-10-2004, 16:06
:Yikes: My email inbox is EMPTY!!!! :Yikes:
Some emails (job tasks) were just accidentally deleted :erm: ;)
:angel:
gosh, how awful, good job you are finishing tomorrow, or that could cause no end of problems ;) :cool:
gosh, how awful, good job you are finishing tomorrow, or that could cause no end of problems ;) :cool:
You did get that it's empty becuase I am leaving!!!! :D :D :D
homealone
14-10-2004, 16:33
You did get that it's empty becuase I am leaving!!!! :D :D :D
yes, lol - I think the forum has an irony filter on today ;)
It's going to be strange, Cas - does everyone finish tomorrow?
nope just me! Talking of irony...it now looks like the company is going to be alright!!!! and I didn't need to leave after all!!!
nope just me! Talking of irony...it now looks like the company is going to be alright!!!! and I didn't need to leave after all!!!
that is a common thing mate, just means you got the push you needed to get yourself a better job..
that is a common thing mate, just means you got the push you needed to get yourself a better job..
Indeed it has :)
homealone
14-10-2004, 16:42
nope just me! Talking of irony...it now looks like the company is going to be alright!!!! and I didn't need to leave after all!!!
I agree with zovat's post - and also on the plus side, at least they should be able to pay you :)
I agree with zovat's post - and also on the plus side, at least they should be able to pay you :)
Yeah, they've paid me till the end of the month :) (and so will the new company! ;))
Yeah, they've paid me till the end of the month :) (and so will the new company! ;))
Result
Last day today!
Been here 5 years it seems weird leaving and not coming back! I keep saying my lasts.... last time I'll get up in the morning to goto this work, last time I'll fight for a Manchester City car park space!, last time I'll be the first one in!, last time I'll give a tosh about whether these [insert responsibilities here] actual work!...... :erm:
:)
Demob happy I take it :) :D
Anybody would think you were leaving :p:
allieyoung666
11-03-2005, 18:19
must admit,you sound very, very, very happy to say the least!!!!!!
Richard M
11-03-2005, 18:30
Jesus H Christ, this is a 5 month old thread! :nono:
etccarmageddon
11-03-2005, 18:32
confused the hell out of me!
Florence
11-03-2005, 22:15
Lets not go digging in the archives for things to do please. :D
:redcard: Richard M Jesus H Christ, this is a 5 month old thread! also some people find it very hard not to moderate a forum even when they are not the mod for another few hours. :ghugs:
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