View Full Version : I can't pay my bill!!!
evandl100
03-09-2004, 10:07
I am trying to pay my slightly overdue telephone/broadband bill by debit card over the phone but cannot get through due to waiting times (in excess of 45 mins), and being cut off once through. If they cut off my telephone line due to non-payment do you think I'd have a case for waivering the reconnection charge?
I am trying to pay my slightly overdue telephone/broadband bill by debit card over the phone but cannot get through due to waiting times (in excess of 45 mins), and being cut off once through. If they cut off my telephone line due to non-payment do you think I'd have a case for waivering the reconnection charge?
No, because you can take the Giro payment slip off the bottom of your bill and pay in person at your local Post Office. It would prolly take you less than 45 minutes as well.
It's a bummer, but I'm afraid they have you by the jewels.
evandl100
03-09-2004, 10:55
Yes, but this would take at least 5 days to hit my account whereas paying over the phone registers the payment instantly. And anyway what type of business are they running where it would be quicker to either post a cheque or pay over the PO counter than ring them with a Debit/Credit card?
orangebird
03-09-2004, 11:10
Yes, but this would take at least 5 days to hit my account whereas paying over the phone registers the payment instantly. And anyway what type of business are they running where it would be quicker to either post a cheque or pay over the PO counter than ring them with a Debit/Credit card?
Stop trying to blame someone else - your bill is already overdue!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
evandl100
03-09-2004, 11:16
Yes, and I'm trying to pay it!!!
orangebird
03-09-2004, 11:21
Yes, and I'm trying to pay it!!!
what number are you dialling?
evandl100
03-09-2004, 11:23
150 from my home phone and 0800 052 2000 from any other phone
Graham M
03-09-2004, 11:31
Just go to your local PO branch or Paypoint enabled news agent and ask to pay the bill. Simple rather than moaning on here that you cant get through wasting time where you could be paying your bill ;)
orangebird
03-09-2004, 11:31
150 from my home phone and 0800 052 2000 from any other phone
Sorry, what region are you in? I'll try and get a direct line for you.
evandl100
03-09-2004, 12:03
Colchester/cambridge region.
I'm at work so cannot get to a Paypoint etc. hence trying to pay by phone
lsgworldl
03-09-2004, 13:30
my cable bill is 4-5 months over due, you wont get disconected you will be restricted, and if you pay by giro paypoint fax a copy of the bill, after being paid of course to them and they will do nothing, plus there new billing system isnt in place, so they wont even take the money out of your account even if you paid by debit card or cc over the phone, as I tried last sun with my £210 and they said wont be out for a while :p
scrotnig
03-09-2004, 13:58
my cable bill is 4-5 months over due, you wont get disconected you will be restricted, and if you pay by giro paypoint fax a copy of the bill, after being paid of course to them and they will do nothing, plus there new billing system isnt in place, so they wont even take the money out of your account even if you paid by debit card or cc over the phone, as I tried last sun with my £210 and they said wont be out for a while :p
Not so in all regions....
In my region, after 5 months you'd have been locked in a cell and forced to watch Britney Spears videos.
Richard M
03-09-2004, 14:39
Not so in all regions....
In my region, after 5 months you'd have been locked in a cell and forced to watch Britney Spears videos.
And that's a bad thing? :D
paulyoung666
03-09-2004, 16:06
And that's a bad thing? :D
:disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:
yes it is :D
Stop trying to blame someone else - your bill is already overdue!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
Nice and helpful there OB :dozey:
paulyoung666
03-09-2004, 18:54
Yes, and I'm trying to pay it!!!
so have you got anywhere yet , i guess the best thing to do is to try and pick a quiet time for c.s. , i usually find that mid morning / mid afternoon is best :)
jellybaby
03-09-2004, 19:54
dial 190 from ur ntl line and u get put straight through to payments/credit department. I never have to wait longer than about 3 mins :)
orangebird
06-09-2004, 11:16
Nice and helpful there OB :dozey:
I've pm'd this late paying customer two direct lines, so yeah, I have been pretty helpful :)
gary_580
06-09-2004, 11:29
Nice and helpful there OB :dozey:
Well its true, it makes me sick that soo many people try to blame others when they're the ones paying the bills late.
DIRECT DEBIT!!!
OB has been very helpful to someone who isnt keeping their half of the contract.
Well its true, it makes me sick that soo many people try to blame others when they're the ones paying the bills late.
DIRECT DEBIT!!!
And what if they don't have a bank account? What if they have a bank account but not enough in it to pay the DD?
Direct Debit is fine for people with money spare, but not everyone is in that situation.
orangebird
06-09-2004, 13:59
And what if they don't have a bank account? What if they have a bank account but not enough in it to pay the DD?
Direct Debit is fine for people with money spare, but not everyone is in that situation.
Then they shouldn't sign up for services they can't afford. Or learn how to budget properly. I have no 'money spare', but I do have a grasp on what I need to pay out every month, and make provision for it.
And what if they don't have a bank account?
I can't believe there are many people who fall into that catagory, but there is no excuse not to have a bank account in this day & age IMHO.
What if they have a bank account but not enough in it to pay the DD?
Then don't sign up for a product that you can't afford? :erm: (obviously that's a 'royal' you & not aimed directly at you Graham. :angel: )
Direct Debit is fine for people with money spare, but not everyone is in that situation.
I disagree Graham ;) DD is fine for people with the money to pay for whatever the DD relates to, & don't want to have to worry about forgetting to pay the bill.
[Edit]-Beaten to it by that damned Orangey Bird! :D
evandl100
06-09-2004, 14:14
Well its true, it makes me sick that soo many people try to blame others when they're the ones paying the bills late.
DIRECT DEBIT!!!
OB has been very helpful to someone who isnt keeping their half of the contract.Yes, but I have been an NTL customer since they took over the franchise in this area in the late nineties so a little leniancy on a late paying customer who has been loyal for so long would not go amiss. And actually I was not that late paying the bill, I was concerned that as I could not get through to pay this may mean I would at some point get cut off.
Oh and I have now paid the bill, or so NTL tell me, even though nothing has been debited from my bank account as yet.
Thanks again OB for your help.
orangebird
06-09-2004, 14:16
<snip>Thanks again OB for your help.
You are very welcome. :) :angel:
gary_580
06-09-2004, 14:17
I can't believe there are many people who fall into that catagory, but there is no excuse not to have a bank account in this day & age IMHO.
Unless the bank refuse to give the person an account. I beleive there is something like 7% of the UK population that are refused bank accounts. IN which case they have to make manual payments, but it is still their responsibility to pay up on time.
gary_580
06-09-2004, 14:21
Yes, but I have been an NTL customer since they took over the franchise in this area in the late nineties so a little leniancy on a late paying customer who has been loyal for so long would not go amiss.
lmao
I can see it know, the billing system produces a bill and then checks how long you have been a customer, how well you have paid in the past and then deicides, wait a minute we will give this person a few more days to pay.
Seriously though, NTL are running a business (agreed its hard to believe that at times! ;) ) and the way to make a business most efficient is to automate repetative tasks, as a result the idea of giving leniancy whilst maybe it would be a nice gesture, its just not possible. A person on the phone cant just say "ok we will give you another week" becasue they dont have the systems to support that option.
evandl100
06-09-2004, 14:31
lmao
Seriously though, NTL are running a business (agreed its hard to believe that at times! ;) ) and the way to make a business most efficient is to automate repetative tasks, as a result the idea of giving leniancy whilst maybe it would be a nice gesture, its just not possible. A person on the phone cant just say "ok we will give you another week" becasue they dont have the systems to support that option.Other companies, i.e. water, electricity don't have such problems so why NTL?
gary_580
06-09-2004, 14:35
Other companies, i.e. water, electricity don't have such problems so why NTL?
and 99% of people dont have a problem, so why do you? I'm not aiming that at you or anyone. I'm just trying to highlight the fact that you have a contract with a company therefore both sides should stick to it as it makes life so much simpler
and 99% of people dont have a problem, so why do you?
Were all heart on this forum at the moment aren't we. I forgot its a hanging offence to forget to pay a bill. :dozey:
Can all of you that are chanting the "your already late" mantra honestly say that you've NEVER missed a bill because of forgetfulness or family circumstances, or plain lack of money? :rolleyes:
Several times things have cropped up for members of my family and they have had to miss paying a bill for a few days, the car needs a new tyre, one of the kids needs new shoes, an adult needed dental treatment!
Have a bit of humanity guys, do you know what the personal circumstances here are?
And OB your first comment (the one I quoted) was less than helpful, in fact down right rude. :mad: Theres an old saying "if you cant say something nice.........." I'll leave the rest to you.
gary_580
06-09-2004, 15:06
Can all of you that are chanting the "your already late" mantra honestly say that you've NEVER missed a bill because of forgetfulness
Well i for one cant. But i can say i didnt whinge about it and blame other people. :rolleyes:
Funniy enough its the only bill i dont pay by DD as well!
SMHarman
06-09-2004, 15:10
Other companies, i.e. water, electricity don't have such problems so why NTL?
Your comparing essential utilities to NTL. They have an obligation to keep your phone line open to incoming calls and emergency outgoing calls, but the rest of their service is discretionary spending, not what you could say about water or electricity.
Would your cellphone provider be more lenient, Sky, OneTel all provide more comparable services than say water.
Well i for one cant. But i can say i didnt whinge about it and blame other people. :rolleyes:
Funniy enough its the only bill i dont pay by DD as well!
Come off it Gary, the poster was annoyed that they couldn't get through and when they did they got cut off, no ones trying to blame anyone!
I am trying to pay my slightly overdue telephone/broadband bill by debit card over the phone but cannot get through due to waiting times (in excess of 45 mins), and being cut off once through. If they cut off my telephone line due to non-payment do you think I'd have a case for waivering the reconnection charge?
Edit- Oh and cheers for the red rep Gary, very grown up!
Well we can't all be perfect all the time.From time to time I've been embarrassed myself because I think that all my bills have been paid and I still have plenty of money left only to find someone has been sitting on a cheque or debit slip and present it late in the month or even the next month.
It happens to everyone eventually.
Hands up anyone who has had NTL take out a double payment by mistake?Do they hurry to pay you back?
OK NTL are better in many ways than they once were but they still have a long way to go especially in the bill demand and payment acceptance area.And yes getting through to certain departments are better than they once were BUT there are still holes in the system.
I did think the point of this site was to be helpful not overly critical of those who find themselves in a predictament with NTL. :(
Unless the bank refuse to give the person an account. I beleive there is something like 7% of the UK population that are refused bank accounts.
And out of that 7% of the UK population, just how many do you think will be ntl customers? :erm:
Not many I would suspect.....
gary_580
06-09-2004, 15:32
I did think the point of this site was to be helpful not overly critical of those who find themselves in a predictament with NTL. :(
And also to be fair to NTL? Asking NTL for Leniency on your payment and then complaining isnt really being fair on NTL. Then for some people to make sarcastic comment about others not helping when infact they have helped is also not helpful.
The fact is if you dont keep you half of the bargain why expect special treatment?
gary_580
06-09-2004, 15:34
And out of that 7% of the UK population, just how many do you think will be ntl customers? :erm:
Not many I would suspect.....
Based upon the amount of loan shark type companies that advertise loans on TV during the day (ocean finance etc) it might be more than we think ;)
orangebird
06-09-2004, 15:35
<snip>
And OB your first comment (the one I quoted) was less than helpful, in fact down right rude. :mad: Theres an old saying "if you cant say something nice.........." I'll leave the rest to you.
Maybe you should practice what you preach. :)
I still think that evandl100 didn't deserve to be jumped on quite as heavily as they were.I think some reactions and answers were a bit over the top for what was a fairly mild first posting.
Incog. :)
scrotnig
06-09-2004, 15:37
lmao
I can see it know, the billing system produces a bill and then checks how long you have been a customer, how well you have paid in the past and then deicides, wait a minute we will give this person a few more days to pay.
Seriously though, NTL are running a business (agreed its hard to believe that at times! ;) ) and the way to make a business most efficient is to automate repetative tasks, as a result the idea of giving leniancy whilst maybe it would be a nice gesture, its just not possible. A person on the phone cant just say "ok we will give you another week" becasue they dont have the systems to support that option.
Actually, different customers get different credit ratings based on their payment history and length of time with the company, and the credit control process (which is automated) varies in length according to this.
Also, credit control DO have the discretion to allow more time to pay, although customer services generally do not.
orangebird
06-09-2004, 15:45
Well, I got 6 green reps for my first 'down right rude' post in this thread. Seems that even if no-one else was going to say what I said, they were at least thinking it or agreed with it. :)
The problems' been fixed, evandl100 didn't seem that offended by it, and has also thanked me for helping. Time to move on perhaps?
scrotnig
06-09-2004, 15:48
Well, I got 6 green reps for my first 'down right rude' post in this thread. Seems that even if no-one else was going to say what I said, they were at least thinking it or agreed with it. :)
The problems' been fixed, evandl100 didn't seem that offended by it, and has also thanked me for helping. Time to move on perhaps?
No, this is a forum, we will continue to flog the subject for at least 5 months yet!
orangebird
06-09-2004, 15:50
No, this is a forum, we will continue to flog the subject for at least 5 months yet!
Good point - what a :dunce: I am. :D
evandl100
06-09-2004, 18:41
Well, I didn't expect my query (it was more of a thought really) to spark such a debate. But thanks for commenting.
The issue, I suppose, was just as much about not being able to get through to pay my bill than whether or not it was actually late. I feel that if NTL offer a choice of payment methods, be it direct debit, telephone payment or whatever then they should facilitate what they are actually offering, or withdraw that facility. If, for example, a direct debit is incorrect then you would expect either the bank or the company to put it right. I would not expect to be cut off because the company messed up taking the direct debit and therefore did not receive payment, even though I had chosen that method of payment and other payment methods exist.
I pay NTL alot of money every month and reserve the right to pay by whichever method is most convenient.
And of course NTL always keep their side of the contractual agreement. Hang on I've justy got to reset my STB just to see what's on BBC1 tonight.
evandl100
07-09-2004, 16:44
I don't mean to keep this subject going for any longer than is necessary but I've got a further query. NTL have informed me that both a direct debit and card payment have cleared onto my accounts, but nothing has actually come out of my bank account. I have checked with my bank and they have confirmed that no direct debit has been debited and there are no current outstanding card payment authorisations. Has anybody else had this sort of thing happen?
orangebird
07-09-2004, 16:55
I don't mean to keep this subject going for any longer than is necessary but I've got a further query. NTL have informed me that both a direct debit and card payment have cleared onto my accounts, but nothing has actually come out of my bank account. I have checked with my bank and they have confirmed that no direct debit has been debited and there are no current outstanding card payment authorisations. Has anybody else had this sort of thing happen?
When did you pay? Don't forget, although the transaction gets authorised at the time of payment, the funds don't usually come out of your account for a couple of working days...
evandl100
07-09-2004, 17:01
Friday for the Card Payment. I would have thought that at least an authorisation would have shown up by now. And Tuesday 31st for the DD.
SMHarman
07-09-2004, 20:54
What Card type? If it's Visa or MC the issuer should see the approval as they have low floor transaction amounts these days.
Switch may be below the floor amount. DD will only be seen by the bank when it is taken. NTLs DD run will be sent to the BACS Net that night (maybe) and come out the other end 5 days later.
Other companies, i.e. water, electricity don't have such problems so why NTL?
heh
but we know that we may have a chance when arguing with NTL so we try :p: no matter how small
I am trying to pay my slightly overdue telephone/broadband bill by debit card over the phone but cannot get through due to waiting times (in excess of 45 mins), and being cut off once through. If they cut off my telephone line due to non-payment do you think I'd have a case for waivering the reconnection charge?
Keep trying CS (150) pay by switch/delta and then get them to set-up a direct-debit. Worked for me.
And what if they don't have a bank account? What if they have a bank account but not enough in it to pay the DD?
Direct Debit is fine for people with money spare, but not everyone is in that situation.
Then they shouldn't sign up for services they can't afford. Or learn how to budget properly. I have no 'money spare', but I do have a grasp on what I need to pay out every month, and make provision for it.
Not having a bank account does *not* mean you "can't afford" something.
Not getting regular payments into your account if you have one doesn't mean that either.
Nor does any of that mean that people don't know how to budget properly!
If there are methods other than Direct Debit available for people to pay their bills, then those methods should *WORK* properly and enable customers to use them!
scrotnig
08-09-2004, 20:25
What region is this matter in?
I do know that areas served by Harmony SABS will find that credit card payments are currently a little slow to clear and authorise, though this should not have any impact on services as the balance shows as clear straight away.
If there are methods other than Direct Debit available for people to pay their bills, then those methods should *WORK* properly and enable customers to use them!
Paying the bill on time works. ;)
gary_580
09-09-2004, 10:04
Paying the bill on time works. ;)
And funnily enough its less effort and less stress. But some people cant see that ;)
Paying the bill on time works. ;)
What a wonderful idea :rolleyes:
And what if you've got *other* bills to pay that have all come in at the same time and you have to make a decision as to which to handle first and which to defer until you've got the money in to pay them?
NB This is *not* the same as "not being able to afford" them, it's called a "cashflow problem".
What a wonderful idea :rolleyes:
Foolproof I think you'll find.
And what if you've got *other* bills to pay that have all come in at the same time and you have to make a decision as to which to handle first and which to defer until you've got the money in to pay them?
Ring the company whose bill you can't afford to pay, & explain the situation?
NB This is *not* the same as "not being able to afford" them, it's called a "cashflow problem".
I call it bad budgeting. If people sat down & worked out what debits were going out & when, then there wouldn't be a "cashflow" problem.
I did it (was painful & boring, but beneficial to me), I went through all my DDs, & altered them all to come out on the 3rd of each month (I get paid on the 1st)
That way, I know exactly how much cash I have remaining for the rest of the month. It's not rocket science, but people are too lazy to organise their financial situations, & expect people liek ntl/BT/British Gas etc, to just do nothing when the services they are supplying aren't paid for. :nono:
There is no excuse for not paying a bill for a service you receive. You knew how much it was going to be when you signed up for it, & you know how much spare cash you have at any given time during the month, & if you pay proper attention to your bank account & your debits, you will know when there is a bottleneck/"cashflow problem"
IMHO, there is no such thing as a cashflow problem, you either have the money to pay for the phone/BB/TV/gas bill or you don't, saying that the bill came in at the wrong time of the month & caused a "cashflow problem" is pathetic at best.
If you can't afford it, don't sign up for it. If you know that ntl/BT/British Gas are going to be asking you for £xxx on the 25th of the month, then damn well make sure you have the money available to pay for the service you signed up for, & stop expecting everyone else to subsidise you.
Simple really. :)
orangebird
09-09-2004, 11:16
Foolproof I think you'll find.
Ring the company whose bill you can't afford to pay, & explain the situation.
I call it bad budgeting. If people sat down & worked out what debites were going out & when, then there wouldn't be a "cashflow" problem.
I did it (was painful & boring, but beneficial to me), I went through all my DDs, & altered them all to come out on the 3rd of each month (I get paid on the 1st)
That way, I know exactly how much cash I have remaining for the rest of the month. It's not rocket science, but people are too lazy to organise their financial situations, & expect people liek ntl/BT/British Gas etc, to just do nothing when the services they are supplying aren't paid for. :nono:
There is no excuse for not paying a bill for a service you receive. You knew how much it was going to be when you signed up for it, & you know how much spare cash you have at any given time during the month, & if you pay proper attention to your bank account & your debits, you will know when there is a bottleneck/"cashflow problem"
IMHO, there is no such thing as a cashflow problem, you either have the money to pay for the phone/BB/TV/gas bill or you don't, saying that the bill came in at the wrong time of the month & caused a "cashflow problem" is pathetic at best.
If you can't afford it, don't sign up for it. If you know that ntl/BT/British Gas are going to be asking you for £xxx on the 25th of the month, then damn well make sure you have the money available to pay for the service you signed up for, & stop expecting everyone else to subsidise you.
Simple really. :)
Tried to rep you for that but need to spread it around a bit first... :naughty:
:clap:
Tried to rep you for that but need to spread it around a bit first... :naughty:
:clap:
You can spread it around my way anytime Orangey! :D
SMHarman
09-09-2004, 11:27
<snip>
I did it (was painful & boring, but beneficial to me), I went through all my DDs, & altered them all to come out on the 3rd of each month (I get paid on the 1st)
<snip>
IMHO, there is no such thing as a cashflow problem, you either have the money to pay for the phone/BB/TV/gas bill or you don't, saying that the bill came in at the wrong time of the month & caused a "cashflow problem" is pathetic at best.
Neil, this works brilliantly if you are a salaried employee, however if you work for yourself, then cashflow problems regularly exist, when customers don't pay on time using you instead of paying for an overdraft at the bank.
The effect then trickles down. Mrs H firm was owed £5,000 by one large "prestigious" customer recently, hers is a startup currently turning over about that a month, so you can imagine the strain this put on finances as our suppliers wanted paying, as did BT, advertisers etc.
orangebird
09-09-2004, 11:29
Neil, this works brilliantly if you are a salaried employee, however if you work for yourself, then cashflow problems regularly exist, when customers don't pay on time using you instead of paying for an overdraft at the bank.
The effect then trickles down.
But that's not ntls/BTs/SEBs/British Gas' problem is it? :shrug:
Neil, this works brilliantly if you are a salaried employee, however if you work for yourself, then cashflow problems regularly exist, when customers don't pay on time using you instead of paying for an overdraft at the bank.
The effect then trickles down.
Understood, but that still shouldn't be ntl's/BT's/Telewest's problem.
If you are in that situation, then it is still your responsibility to ensure that you have a 'slush fund' there to cover your own outgoings such as BB/TV/gas etc, in the event that you don't receive enough cash in from your own customers.
Not paying a bill is inexcuseable in all but extreme circumstances, & there is no justification for it IMO.
[Edit]-Damn! Beaten to it by The Bird of Orangeness again! :p:
SMHarman
09-09-2004, 11:37
But that's not ntls/BTs/SEBs/British Gas' problem is it? :shrug:
No it is not, what Neil suggested is something everybody who is paid monthly should do. I have gone one further and opened a second bank account so on pay day a lump sum moves to that and all the standard bills, mortgage, phone, ntl, life ins, pet ins, tv licence, gas etc go out of it. I know what these total and pay a little more in. The balance in my bank account is whats left... This way there will always be enough in the bank to cover those bills.
If your pay is more errattic and large companies ignore your payment terms and decide that 90 days net works better for them when you agreed 30 days net (and I bet this is something NTL do) then it is a problem.
It's not NTLs problem that you have cashflow problems, but I bet they do it to their supply chain to so can understand how it arises.
No it is not, what Neil suggested is something everybody who is paid monthly should do.
I didn't specify it to apply to salaried people at all. It applies to everyone-if you have £xxx going out of your bank at any given time, just make sure the money is in there.
If you are self employed & suffer with bad payers, then make alternative arrangements so that your own bills get paid (hence my 'slush fund' suggestion)
I have gone one further and opened a second bank account so on pay day a lump sum moves to that and all the standard bills, mortgage, phone, ntl, life ins, pet ins, tv licence, gas etc go out of it. I know what these total and pay a little more in. The balance in my bank account is whats left... This way there will always be enough in the bank to cover those bills.
Bingo!! There you go (that's a 'royal' you btw-not @ you specifically!) It really isn't that hard is it? :)
If your pay is more errattic and large companies ignore your payment terms and decide that 90 days net works better for them when you agreed 30 days net (and I bet this is something NTL do) then it is a problem.
All companies pay their bills late, but that just becomes a viscious circle for them as all their suppliers do it to them too, so it just goes round & round. :p:
t's not NTLs problem that you have cashflow problems, but I bet they do it to their supply chain to so can understand how it arises.
They do, & I can, but it still doesn't change the fact that there no excuse/reason for not paying a bill. :)
Ring the company whose bill you can't afford to pay, & explain the situation?
A wonderful idea! I wonder why evandl100 who started this thread didn't think of it? Oh, wait a minute...
I am trying to pay my slightly overdue telephone/broadband bill by debit card over the phone but cannot get through due to waiting times (in excess of 45 mins), and being cut off once through.
:rolleyes:
I call it bad budgeting. If people sat down & worked out what debits were going out & when, then there wouldn't be a "cashflow" problem.
The cashflow problem is not knowing when the money is going out, but when it is coming *in*!
I did it (was painful & boring, but beneficial to me), I went through all my DDs, & altered them all to come out on the 3rd of each month (I get paid on the 1st)
And this is great, *PROVIDED* you get regular payments at set times.
However, even though my business takes over £60,000 a year, occasionally I, as happened recently, ended up with my business account almost going overdrawn because a wholesale customer owed me £2000 and hadn't paid, but I'd just paid out nearly £3000 to suppliers.
That wasn't "laziness" on my part. It wasn't being stupid or ignorant or not caring, it was simply *NOT* having the money when I needed it.
There is no excuse for not paying a bill for a service you receive. You knew how much it was going to be when you signed up for it, & you know how much spare cash you have at any given time during the month, & if you pay proper attention to your bank account & your debits, you will know when there is a bottleneck/"cashflow problem"
I wish I lived in the same world as you where everything is so clear cut and simple. Trouble is in the Real World (TM) things never quite work that way.
Still, you're alright, Jack and if you don't have any problems, then why should anyone else???
evandl100
09-09-2004, 20:47
And there is also the issue of controlling exactly how much you are actually paying a company. For instance when I first signed up to broadband I was promised the first month free. I duly budgeted accordingly only to find that NTL had added the first month onto the bill. When I enquired I was informed that the first month would be added as a credit on the next bill :confused:. I then negotiated this amount off the first bill and paid the correct amount by debit card. If this had been set up as a direct payment then NTL would have taken the full amount thus leaving me short even though I had budgeted correctly. Paying this way at least gives me the opportunity to negotiate any payment that I am disputing.
Moreover, I have known people who have left NTL due to incorrect Direct Debits been taken and then having one hell of a job to actually get the money refunded. So even with the best of budgeting intentions things can still go wrong.
scrotnig
09-09-2004, 21:13
And this is great, *PROVIDED* you get regular payments at set times.
However, even though my business takes over £60,000 a year, occasionally I, as happened recently, ended up with my business account almost going overdrawn because a wholesale customer owed me £2000 and hadn't paid, but I'd just paid out nearly £3000 to suppliers.
That wasn't "laziness" on my part. It wasn't being stupid or ignorant or not caring, it was simply *NOT* having the money when I needed it.
Again, this is NOT the concern of ntl, British gas, BT, Sky or any other such company.
(The following is a general reply not aimed at any poster)
I used to work in ntl credit control. One of the major issues we had time and again was people genuinely presuming that the company was obliged to work round them and give them more time to pay. It just isn't like that. yes, ntl will try to, as will most firms, but there is NO obligation to do so, that is the part the customer tends not to understand.
It doesn't matter if your uncle's in a wheelchair, your kid's got cancer, your mother is suicidal, or anything else. I find those sort of excuses offensive...if I had a relative who's life depended on having a phone, I'd pay the bloody bill, not whinge with any excuse I could think of to the telephone company.
People should remember, if you phone in the afternoon, you are probably the 112th person with a child with cancer that member of staff has dealt with so far today, so don't even bother. It's far better to be honest, and say you are struggling with the bill, and make a realistic offer to pay.
People who ring up owing £400 but can only pay £5 a week but we mustn't switch off their 1mb broadband and Sky Sports just get nowehere!
Florence
09-09-2004, 21:25
I was going to stay out of this thread! but....
I have found NTL is alright if they know you are trying to pay them when things suddenly go wrong like teenager running up a £350 telephone bill in one month.
At first I was given the run around even though I had explained what had happened then I visited NTHelworld and was put in contact with someone who listened and worked a way round my problem I didn't let them down and had managed to clear the debt in a matter of months..
You just have to contact the correct people first before you explain the problem and remember its you that needs their help not them needing your help.. Being [b]Polite, understand the companies side and put your side to NTL they will then meet you along the way aslong as they are being paid..
They don't have to help you pay the arears and BT wouldn't let you keep your services while paying arrears but NTL will aslong as its not a regular thing..
I have to say this is one of NTLs strong points for me they was there for me when I needed the help..
paulyoung666
09-09-2004, 21:50
I was going to stay out of this thread! but....
I have found NTL is alright if they know you are trying to pay them when things suddenly go wrong like teenager running up a £350 telephone bill in one month.
At first I was given the run around even though I had explained what had happened then I visited NTHelworld and was put in contact with someone who listened and worked a way round my problem I didn't let them down and had managed to clear the debt in a matter of months..
You just have to contact the correct people first before you explain the problem and remember its you that needs their help not them needing your help.. Being [b]Polite, understand the companies side and put your side to NTL they will then meet you along the way aslong as they are being paid..
They don't have to help you pay the arears and BT wouldn't let you keep your services while paying arrears but NTL will aslong as its not a regular thing..
I have to say this is one of NTLs strong points for me they was there for me when I needed the help..
120% correct i reckon , any company will be willing to work with you if you are willing to work with them , hiding in a corner hoping the problem will go away is not the way to go :td:
I call it bad budgeting. If people sat down & worked out what debits were going out & when, then there wouldn't be a "cashflow" problem.
Must be why Ntl are in such a state then :rolleyes:
I wish I lived in your ideological world Neil, it must be great :)
SMHarman
10-09-2004, 08:50
<snipped in parts>
I call it bad budgeting. If people sat down & worked out what debits were going out & when, then there wouldn't be a "cashflow" problem.
I can tell you exactly what debits are going out, thats the easy bit of a cashflow, its the inflows that are more difficult to budget, especially when employees and companies are tardy in payment processing, what you budget to come in one month comes in two months later, the debits associated with that credit still need to be paid on time so you can continue to service other customers.
<snipped in parts>
I did it (was painful & boring, but beneficial to me), I went through all my DDs, & altered them all to come out on the 3rd of each month (I get paid on the 1st)
DD is all well and good if the company system works well. My electricity DD is currently £85 a month! I don't use £85 a month apart from two months a year January and Febuary when my electric underfloor heating is on, my balance at that point on the monthly plan was about 0, yet their computer has decided I need to pay £85, they currently owe me about £300 in overpayments, how is that good budgeting. This of course has limited relevance to this thread, but DD is not the be all and end all of budgeting, I am having to budget an additional £25 a month in electricity costs to that will all be repaid to me in a few months when they reasses.
<snipped in parts>
IMHO, there is no such thing as a cashflow problem, you either have the money to pay for the phone/BB/TV/gas bill or you don't, saying that the bill came in at the wrong time of the month & caused a "cashflow problem" is pathetic at best.
Simple really. :)
I never said the bill came in at the wrong time, more that the income does not come in when the cashflow says it should, but hey thats the real world.
I wish I lived in your ideological world Neil, it must be great :)It is. :cool:
Must be why Ntl are in such a state then :rolleyes:
I wish I lived in your ideological world Neil, it must be great :)
It's not necessarily great, but I do know how much goers out in DDs each month, & I do know that it's my responsibility to make sure the cash in there on the relevant date.
Also payment dates of salary cheques can be changed without consultation.This happened to me this year.I was being paid around the 15th/16th of the month when Hampshire County Council decided in their infinite wisdom that all supply staff would be paid at the end of the month instead.I wasn't asked I was just informed with 1 months warning.Not a lot of room for manoeuvre with DD's and having to go 6 weeks between one wage payment and the next.
Luckily the previous month had been a good one work wise and I did have some spare cash to cover bills.Otherwise I could have been the one on the phone trying to pay my bill. ;)
orangebird
10-09-2004, 10:08
But that still isn't ntls problem....
What about ntls cashflow??? :rolleyes:
scrotnig
10-09-2004, 10:17
As I said in my earlier post, the problem here is that people think these companies have some sort of obligation to work around a customer's cash flow problems, and the simple truth is, they do not.
I'm afraid it doesn't matter how justified a customer thinks their personal situation is, if the company DOES agree to work around it, it's because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to.
The sooner people realise this, the better the debt situation in the UK will be.
evandl100
10-09-2004, 10:21
But that still isn't ntls problem....
True, but presumably NTL operate in the real world where these things happen, just as things can (and do) go not exactly according to plan from their side.
evandl100
10-09-2004, 10:36
As I said in my earlier post, the problem here is that people think these companies have some sort of obligation to work around a customer's cash flow problems, and the simple truth is, they do not.
I'm afraid it doesn't matter how justified a customer thinks their personal situation is, if the company DOES agree to work around it, it's because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to.
The sooner people realise this, the better the debt situation in the UK will be.I don't exactly agree. Companies have to in order to avoid losing customers to competitors, otherwise why bother? Therefore a poor paying customer must in some way still be beneficial.
And surely companies have to be held account in some way for agreeing to provide services to those who cannot afford them. The debt problem in the UK is not solely down to individuals. Companies do have to take responsibilty too.
SMHarman
10-09-2004, 11:00
But that still isn't ntls problem....
What about ntls cashflow??? :rolleyes:
What about ntls cashflow, that certainly has not been something from Neils ideal world :angel:
ntls cashflow fits perfectly into the statement "if you owe the bank £100 it is your problem, if you owe the bank £100M it's their problem".
I'm sure 10 years ago when NTL were diggin up the country and being extended loans to do so their cashflow forecasts indicated lots of customers and lots of cash coming in from this shiney new network to fund these loans, that did not happen ntl fell behind in their payments and had to go to the banks to ask nicely to have more time to pay, and had to go to the banks to ask nicely to have more time to pay, and had to go to the banks to ask nicely to have more time to pay, and had to go to the banks to ask nicely to have more time to pay, and then the banks had enough and took the company over seizing the assets that their loan was secured upon, at a personal level this would be the equivilant of not paying your mortgage and being repossessed.
Whilst this is off topic to the thread, ntl is not a company that shows a shining example of good corporate financial management.
I don't exactly agree. Companies have to in order to avoid losing customers to competitors, otherwise why bother? Therefore a poor paying customer must in some way still be beneficial.
Any customer that ultimately pays is a worthwhile customer, it is the need to factor in the costs of chasing and account management and spread that across all accounts (or levy penalties to the defaultors potentially worsening their position) that means the revenue vs additional costs needs justification.
In the example i used earler in the thread of the large "prestigious" customer (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=297200&postcount=59) she still made a nice profit on the transaction, so this poor paying customer was still beneficial, it was just the profit was about £150 lower when the financing, phone calls to chase, letters, time to do this were all taken into consideration, and while doing all that you are not looking after your current / potential customers.
But that still isn't ntls problem....
What about ntls cashflow??? :rolleyes:
I never said it was.I was just pointing out to those that seem to think that having a cashflow problem is the fault of the individual not to plan ahead.I merely pointed out that sometimes life kicks you in the nadgers and you then have the problem.Then it becomes ntl's problem.So if one wants to find a short cut to pay a inadvertant overdue bill surely it is in NTL's interest that you pay it as quickly as you can if slightly later rather than much later when the whole process of chasing with letters,bailiffs and court cases comes into play.
Anyway ntl seems to being managing their cashflow pretty much like everyone else.Not brilliantly by all accounts and have just survived because at times they are the only choice of in one's town or street.
Incog.Off to unsubscribe from this thread.It's not worth raising the blood pressure any more.
scrotnig
10-09-2004, 12:19
It doesn't matter whether the cashflow problem is the customer's fault or not, it STILL isn't the fault of a third party company such as ntl that they owe money to.
A company MAY decide that they will accommodate customers in this position to prevent losing business. But equally, they may decide NOT to, and then it's just tough. End of story.
As to companies having a responsibility to ensure customers can afford the service when they take it out....claptrap! Companies like ntl do not ask details of income, so how would they know? Credit card firms and loan firms need to, yes, but not gas, electric, phones, cable TV, Sky, etc.
Customers of all companies need to start accepting responsibility for their own actions, rather than seeking to blame everyone and anyone when they find they are short of cash. Everyone is always full of their 'rights', but never their 'responsibilities'.
As an afterthought...pop down to Sainsburys, and fill a trolley full of shopping, then at the till tell them you have a 'cashflow problem', and therefore you want to take the goods home, but you'll pay off the debt at £5 a week or something.....tell them you are a valued customer and they have to fit in with your cashflow. See what response you get, and then understand that this is NO DIFFERENT to buying TV or telephone services.
I agree that most companies are accommodating if your having problems paying as long as you let them know!
I ran up a large mobile bill a few years ago, mostly from roming charges in the States. When it came round to pay the bill, due to other things that had happened that month I did not have the money to pay for it. I called up O2 or BT Cellnet as they were then explained the situation and asked them if I could pay off £50 that month and then deffer the rest of the bill to the next month. They were very good about it. So if your having cashflow problems, let your supplier know they will usually help you out.
It doesn't matter whether the cashflow problem is the customer's fault or not, it STILL isn't the fault of a third party company such as ntl that they owe money to.
You know, I have read this sort of comment *repeatedly* throughout this thread, yet, having read back, I can see *NO* posts where anyone has actually *SAID* this.
A company MAY decide that they will accommodate customers in this position to prevent losing business. But equally, they may decide NOT to, and then it's just tough. End of story.
No, just the *start* of the story, because "Big company refuses little guy any leeway in paying his bills" is big story in the newspapers.
Yes, they're not *obliged* to do anything about it, but it would be an incredibly stupid and short-sighted act, not to mention a PR disaster, by a big company to do this.
Customers of all companies need to start accepting responsibility for their own actions, rather than seeking to blame everyone and anyone when they find they are short of cash. Everyone is always full of their 'rights', but never their 'responsibilities'.
Oh that is *SO* big hearted of you! Of course if the *company* would take its responsibilities seriously too ("oops, my e-mail, broadband, webspace, TV service is screwed up NTL, what are you going to do about it, NTL?" "Oh, we'll get around to fixing it eventually") it might not sound so hypocritical.
As an afterthought...pop down to Sainsburys, and fill a trolley full of shopping, then at the till tell them you have a 'cashflow problem', and therefore you want to take the goods home, but you'll pay off the debt at £5 a week or something.....tell them you are a valued customer and they have to fit in with your cashflow. See what response you get, and then understand that this is NO DIFFERENT to buying TV or telephone services.
RUBBISH! This is a completely nonsensical comparison.
You have no contract with Sainsburys, they have no obligation to supply you. The transaction is "ad hoc" not an ongoing service, they have no idea who you are or where you live etc etc etc.
We are *NOT* talking about someone walking out of a supermarket without paying for a service, we are talking about someone who *WILL* pay for their service, but just wants a large company to not be arrogant and inconsiderate, but to exercise a simple bit of compassion and understanding because *real people* in the *real world* have *real problems* and rather than saying "I don't care about your problems, pay up now or else" the large company shoudl think about how it will look if they do this.
It's a good job you don't run a company like that, otherwise you'd probably very soon find that the loss of large amounts of PR goodwill massively outweighs the small amounts of cash you'd get from a few tardy payers.
gary_580
10-09-2004, 13:47
You know, I have read this sort of comment *repeatedly* throughout this thread, yet, having read back, I can see *NO* posts where anyone has actually *SAID* this.
No, just the *start* of the story, because "Big company refuses little guy any leeway in paying his bills" is big story in the newspapers.
Yes, they're not *obliged* to do anything about it, but it would be an incredibly stupid and short-sighted act, not to mention a PR disaster, by a big company to do this.
Oh that is *SO* big hearted of you! Of course if the *company* would take its responsibilities seriously too ("oops, my e-mail, broadband, webspace, TV service is screwed up NTL, what are you going to do about it, NTL?" "Oh, we'll get around to fixing it eventually") it might not sound so hypocritical.
RUBBISH! This is a completely nonsensical comparison.
You have no contract with Sainsburys, they have no obligation to supply you. The transaction is "ad hoc" not an ongoing service, they have no idea who you are or where you live etc etc etc.
We are *NOT* talking about someone walking out of a supermarket without paying for a service, we are talking about someone who *WILL* pay for their service, but just wants a large company to not be arrogant and inconsiderate, but to exercise a simple bit of compassion and understanding because *real people* in the *real world* have *real problems* and rather than saying "I don't care about your problems, pay up now or else" the large company shoudl think about how it will look if they do this.
It's a good job you don't run a company like that, otherwise you'd probably very soon find that the loss of large amounts of PR goodwill massively outweighs the small amounts of cash you'd get from a few tardy payers.
so if you were an employee of a company you would find it acceptable if your employer paid you a few weeks late one month? They have a contract with you, they have had the services and they want to pay late. Sounds the same to me but i bet you would moan like hell.
LostintheNW
10-09-2004, 13:54
Just wondering would those sticking up for NTL be the same if the banks who NTL are in debt up to the high hilt with turned round and said " its not out fault your customers dont pay we want paying now or we shut you down!"?
Oh and I've never been in a bad paying problem with NTL but I have noticed they are quick to charge you extra and then say they will give it you back in a month or so time....don't see why us customers can't do that as well...works both ways!
so if you were an employee of a company you would find it acceptable if your employer paid you a few weeks late one month? They have a contract with you, they have had the services and they want to pay late. Sounds the same to me but i bet you would moan like hell.
Well firstly there have been examples of workers for some companies willingly accepting such situations when the company is having cashflow problems.
Secondly it would depend on whether I could afford it, but somehow I don't think that "Large Company )TM)" is going to go bust if "Joe Littleguy" doesn't pay his bill for a few weeks...
gary_580
10-09-2004, 13:58
Just wondering would those sticking up for NTL be the same if the banks who NTL are in debt up to the high hilt with turned round and said " its not out fault your customers dont pay we want paying now or we shut you down!"?
And the banks have a right to do that. They can call in a loan when ever they want.
so if you were an employee of a company you would find it acceptable if your employer paid you a few weeks late one month? They have a contract with you, they have had the services and they want to pay late. Sounds the same to me but i bet you would moan like hell.
You took the words right out of my mouth. :Peace:
This is getting a bit out of hand & heated, so let's all (me included :angel: ) just take a deep breath for a mo :)
The bottom line is that Fred Bloggs signs up for his ntl/BT/Sky service & agrees to pay for said service (not unreasonable IMO)
The point that I made ages ago, was that it is still Fred Bloggs' responsibility to pay for that service that he signed up for, & if a cashflow situation arose-Fred should contact ntl/BT/Sky to discuss the situation, & make alternative arrangements (perhaps pay it next month & also downgrade for a month to reduce next month's bill for example?)
But at the end of the day, there is no excuse for not paying a bill & expecting ntl/BT/Sky/whoever to be totally ok with it.
Fred knows what hise DDs/outgoings are each month (let's say it's £500.00 ), so Fred should have a 'slush fund' sitting dormant somewhere to cover some of those in case one month he receives £xxx less than he should do from his customers (I do appreciate this happens) & as Fred is clearly aware that sometimes he doesn't receive all he should from his customers, he should have a 'Plan B' in place to pay people he has agreed to pay for services he receives.
Someone not paying being able to pay their bill is one thing, & I'm sure if Fred rang up xxx LTD & explained the situation, they would just let Fred pay some/all of it the next month.
But someone just not paying the bill simply because they have cashflow problems & expecting xxx LTD to be totally ok with it is simply wrong IMHO.
gary_580
10-09-2004, 14:02
Well firstly there have been examples of workers for some companies willingly accepting such situations when the company is having cashflow problems.
Secondly it would depend on whether I could afford it, but somehow I don't think that "Large Company )TM)" is going to go bust if "Joe Littleguy" doesn't pay his bill for a few weeks...
Yes some companies have ASKED their employees and in some cases the employees refused (not unreasonable imho).
Agreed that in this case the company is not going to see much impact. However it does set a standard and if they allowed that it would do a number of things.
Delay cashflow
increase customer calls
increase user interaction on accounts
increase the number of times an account has to be looked at monthly
all of these things cost money and someone has to pay for that.
You could go to the other extreme and have a system that automatically says, no pay then no play (ie disconnects you automatically and you ar charged to be reconnected, aggreed its inflexible but its cheap to run!!)
gary_580
10-09-2004, 14:03
You took the words right out of my mouth. :Peace:
Dont sit there with your gob open then :D
SMHarman
10-09-2004, 14:22
<snip>
It's a good job you don't run a company like that, otherwise you'd probably very soon find that the loss of large amounts of PR goodwill massively outweighs the small amounts of cash you'd get from a few tardy payers.
Or moreso a small company where your customers have choice and word of mouth is a key element of marketing.
so if you were an employee of a company you would find it acceptable if your employer paid you a few weeks late one month? They have a contract with you, they have had the services and they want to pay late. Sounds the same to me but i bet you would moan like hell.
Aaah, but you can bet that the first thing that company would do is pay it's employees and then turn around to it's suppliers and ask them if it is acceptable to be paid a few weeks late.
The company knows of course that its employees are a key resource, while the bank / suppliers can sweat for a few weeks.
This is why companies that ask ees this normally get a no. For such a question to be asked means suppliers and banking facilities are exhausted and unless there are some significant recievables, when the bank would probably factor against them and loan the writing is truly on the wall for that firm.
scrotnig
10-09-2004, 14:24
Oh that is *SO* big hearted of you! Of course if the *company* would take its responsibilities seriously too ("oops, my e-mail, broadband, webspace, TV service is screwed up NTL, what are you going to do about it, NTL?" "Oh, we'll get around to fixing it eventually") it might not sound so hypocritical.
I'm talking about firms generally, not ntl specifically.
If you did some credit control training, you'd understand most of what you've written is tosh. The customer needs to pay the bill, end of story. If a newspaper wants to run a story about how a customer who didn't pay their bill got cut off, they'd find little interest or sympathy. If you've used the services, pay for them. Simple.
As an aside, I also challenge you to provide evidence that someone at ntl told you they'd "get round to fixing it eventually". If you name them, I'll make sure they're dealt with.
gary_580
10-09-2004, 14:35
As an aside, I also challenge you to provide evidence that someone at ntl told you they'd "get round to fixing it eventually". If you name them, I'll make sure they're dealt with.
I was told this same thing yesterday in fact. If you look on my account i would hope you could get the name of the last person to update it. I have an on going problem where i lose channels. I've got to the point were "sending a signal" is not good enough and told the CS person who i spoke to if its not fixed by the end of next week ill be taking my £100 a month elsewhere and the reply i got was "we will fix it eventually". He did however suggest he was making a booking for an eng to visit but i wasnt convinced he actually did that.
evandl100
10-09-2004, 14:39
As to companies having a responsibility to ensure customers can afford the service when they take it out....claptrap! Companies like ntl do not ask details of income, so how would they know? Credit card firms and loan firms need to, yes, but not gas, electric, phones, cable TV, Sky, etc.
Rubbish!!! Many companies including phone companies etc. carry out credit searches to ascertain risk, and do not always ask for income details.
I'm talking about firms generally, not ntl specifically.
If you did some credit control training, you'd understand most of what you've written is tosh. The customer needs to pay the bill, end of story. If a newspaper wants to run a story about how a customer who didn't pay their bill got cut off, they'd find little interest or sympathy. If you've used the services, pay for them. Simple.
As an aside, I also challenge you to provide evidence that someone at ntl told you they'd "get round to fixing it eventually". If you name them, I'll make sure they're dealt with.
:notopic: The problem is Mark (as I'm sure you aware), one of an ntl customer's biggest gripes is that there is never a record of someone agreeing to something on the customer's last phone call. We all know that CSRs agree to credits/visits/phone calls from God etc etc, but they do it knowing that there is no audit trail, & that no one will ever be able to trace them.
I know you will say Harmony will address that, but I think it's too late to try to convince customers that ntl are on their side.
orangebird
10-09-2004, 14:51
<snip>
I know you will say Harmony will address that, but I think it's too late to try to convince customers that ntl are on their side.
Too late for what??? This isn't aimed at you Neil ( :luv: ), but I'm getting a little sick of members on this board that think they know what ntl are or aren't doing, think they know what money ntl does or doesn't have to spare, think they know where ntls priorities should lie if the money is indeed there, think they know that ntl is going down the pan despite net customer figures and revenue going UP every quarter, think they know how to run a multi-billion international company and spare no hot air in telling us all how they'd do it better/easier/more profitably etc..... :rolleyes: :mad:
For craps sake - from what I see on this board, members are either small time 'own bosses', champions of pointless causes (CAP anyone?), stressed, depressed or unemployed. Noe of which IMO would get any of you a job consulting on how to run a company like ntl. Give over and get your own houses in order. Or got to ADSL/SKY/BT/THE MOON. :p:
gary_580
10-09-2004, 14:52
Rubbish!!! Many companies including phone companies etc. carry out credit searches to ascertain risk, and do not always ask for income details.
your name, address and DOB is eopnugh for a company to do a credit check on your and find out home much you earn etc
Or got to ADSL/SKY/BT/THE MOON. :p:
Will 3 out of 4 do Miss!? :D
gary_580
10-09-2004, 15:01
hmm you have ADSL, SKY and BT? Can i ask what your doing in a CABLE forum :D
scrotnig
10-09-2004, 15:01
:notopic: The problem is Mark (as I'm sure you aware), one of an ntl customer's biggest gripes is that there is never a record of someone agreeing to something on the customer's last phone call. We all know that CSRs agree to credits/visits/phone calls from God etc etc, but they do it knowing that there is no audit trail, & that no one will ever be able to trace them.
I know you will say Harmony will address that, but I think it's too late to try to convince customers that ntl are on their side.
Harmony *won't* address that.
What will address that is staff actually noting the account...it's a big bugbear of mine. Not only does it make it hard for the customer, it also makes it nigh on impossible for other staff.
As far as I know, all the current billing systems within ntl have note/memo facilities, including obviously Harmony. Moat staff DO use them, but some don't, and they need to.
orangebird
10-09-2004, 15:02
Will 3 out of 4 do Miss!? :D
:LOL:!!!!!!!!
scrotnig
10-09-2004, 15:03
Rubbish!!! Many companies including phone companies etc. carry out credit searches to ascertain risk, and do not always ask for income details.All that does is give previous payment history. It doesn't indicate present ability to pay, which is why credit and loan companies ask for more details, such as income.
scrotnig
10-09-2004, 15:04
your name, address and DOB is eopnugh for a company to do a credit check on your and find out home much you earn etcRubbish, sorry.
You can't find out how much someone earns from a normal credit check.
gary_580
10-09-2004, 15:12
Rubbish, sorry.
You can't find out how much someone earns from a normal credit check.
Define "NORMAL"
We built a link to equifax from a system we use here and it sends
Surname
Firstname
DOB
Post Code
House No or name
and in return one of the items we get back is gross salary
SMHarman
10-09-2004, 15:28
Too late for what??? This isn't aimed at you Neil ( :luv: ), but I'm getting a little sick of members on this board that think they know what ntl are or aren't doing, think they know what money ntl does or doesn't have to spare, think they know where ntls priorities should lie if the money is indeed there, think they know that ntl is going down the pan despite net customer figures and revenue going UP every quarter, think they know how to run a multi-billion international company and spare no hot air in telling us all how they'd do it better/easier/more profitably etc..... :rolleyes: :mad:
For craps sake - from what I see on this board, members are either small time 'own bosses', champions of pointless causes (CAP anyone?), stressed, depressed or unemployed. Noe of which IMO would get any of you a job consulting on how to run a company like ntl. Give over and get your own houses in order. Or got to ADSL/SKY/BT/THE MOON. :p:
Ouch :confused: where did that come from, this was not really an NTL bashing thread up until this point, well not to the extent of some I have seen. It's Friday afternoon, I'll rise to the bait. Any large company is going to have different customer groups and internal groups clamouring for funds / investment, development in the product that benefits them most, just look here, what development should NTL choose. 3Mb BB, BB rollout across the cable network, DTV across the network, enhanced Interactive TV, Nationwide Caller display.
This original thread was about cashflow difficulties and bill paying not about how NTL was run, as a company, it's quite easy for NTL to get revenues up quarter by quarter if that is all they need to do, cut back on maintainance, job replacement and all other costs, increase prices and watch those results come in on target. Long term an appauling stratagy as customers will get hacked off paying high prices for poor performance and move, but such are the products that NTL sell, this will not happen overnight. Again, to get customer numbers up run popular introductory offers, free periods, bundles for 12 months, the customer number goes up but ARPU remains static / falls.
Is running NTL different from running a small business, yes it's much easier, you can afford teams of investment bankers to deal with your funding, a large HR function to make sure you are not breaking any employment laws, a legal team to deal with contracts, staff who can focus on each specific area of the business, not one day be packing and shipping and the next day credit control, the next day marketing.
Define "NORMAL"
We built a link to equifax and in return one of the items we get back is gross salary
Well actually last declared salary on an application form that has been provided by a user of the system to the main DB, but you are correct.
hmm you have ADSL, SKY and BT? Can i ask what your doing in a CABLE forum :D
Of course you can-I own the site! :p:
so if you were an employee of a company you would find it acceptable if your employer paid you a few weeks late one month? They have a contract with you, they have had the services and they want to pay late. Sounds the same to me but i bet you would moan like hell.
Has happened to me, and yes I gave the company some time to pay me other wise if I'd have asked them to pay me on the right day they would have gone bust and I'd have had no job.
orangebird
10-09-2004, 16:15
<snip>.
Is running NTL different from running a small business, yes it's much easier, you can afford teams of investment bankers to deal with your funding, a large HR function to make sure you are not breaking any employment laws, a legal team to deal with contracts, staff who can focus on each specific area of the business, not one day be packing and shipping and the next day credit control, the next day marketing.
Unless you've ever run a company made up by at least 21
smaller companies, with nearly 14000 employees and 3,000,000 customers, you've just proved my point.... :rolleyes:
Define "NORMAL"
We built a link to equifax from a system we use here and it sends
Surname
Firstname
DOB
Post Code
House No or name
and in return one of the items we get back is gross salary
Well you do surprise me as they cant collect that info, they may give you a gross INCOME, i.e. the monthly amount that arrives into the customers current account (this could be share dividends, allowance, DSS payment, or even lottery winnings), but there is no way on earth they can tell you a current salary. This info just isn't collected, how could they?
This original thread was about cashflow difficulties and bill paying not about how NTL was run, as a company
I'm sure it was pretty much a thread complaining that the first poster couldn't get through to CS to pay the bill, they had the money and just wanted to pay, other posters have turned the thread into a ntl/"customer who doesn't pay" bashing thread. :(
orangebird
10-09-2004, 16:33
I'm sure it was pretty much a thread complaining that the first poster couldn't get through to CS to pay the bill, they had the money and just wanted to pay, other posters have turned the thread into a ntl/"customer who doesn't pay" bashing thread. :(
I am trying to pay my slightly overdue telephone/broadband bill by debit card over the phone but cannot get through due to waiting times (in excess of 45 mins), and being cut off once through. If they cut off my telephone line due to non-payment do you think I'd have a case for waivering the reconnection charge?
Not quite - the bill was overdue, he was having trouble getting through to customer services to finally get round to paying it....
evandl100
10-09-2004, 16:45
Not quite - the bill was overdue, he was having trouble getting through to customer services to finally get round to paying it....Well technically I don't even know if it was overdue as I hadn't actually received any reminders. And when NTL finally answered my call last Friday, to date they still haven't debited my bank account.
SMHarman
10-09-2004, 16:51
Unless you've ever run a company made up by at least 21 smaller companies, with nearly 14000 employees and 3,000,000 customers, you've just proved my point.... :rolleyes:
No I don't think I have, running a smaller company requires the skills of strategy and planning, sales person, accountant, credit control, marketing, buyer. Running a company made up by at least 21 smaller companies, with nearly 14000 employees and 3,000,000 customers, requires consideration of strategy and planning, negotiation and schmoozing and PR. In all decisions you need to make you have a team of advisors to research and support and finally if you cock it up you get a big payoff, not a visit to debtors gaol.
For craps sake - from what I see on this board, members are either small time 'own bosses', champions of pointless causes (CAP anyone?), stressed, depressed or unemployed. Noe of which IMO would get any of you a job consulting on how to run a company like ntl. Give over and get your own houses in order. Or got to ADSL/SKY/BT/THE MOON. :p:I am non of those thank you very much :mad:
Define "NORMAL"
We built a link to equifax from a system we use here and it sends
Surname
Firstname
DOB
Post Code
House No or name
and in return one of the items we get back is gross salary
Equifax - :knock:
Credit reference companies run quite complicated programs to esimate your income from known facts, nothing more.
Not quite - the bill was overdue, he was having trouble getting through to customer services to finally get round to paying it....
The customer was complaining that they couldn't get hold of NTL, not that they couldn't pay it. this thread then goes way off topic and starts on about customers that can't afford to pay their bills, not what the thread was about. :)
paulyoung666
10-09-2004, 18:53
The customer was complaining that they couldn't get hold of NTL, not that they couldn't pay it. this thread then goes way off topic and starts on about customers that can't afford to pay their bills, not what the thread was about. :)
i must live in some sort of temporal disturbance , how come when i ring ntl i get through in no more than 5 minutes , is it just me i wonder :disturbd: , or is it the time of day that i choose to ring them , mid morning or mid afternoon has always worked for me ;) :)
gary_580
10-09-2004, 21:34
Well you do surprise me as they cant collect that info, they may give you a gross INCOME, i.e. the monthly amount that arrives into the customers current account (this could be share dividends, allowance, DSS payment, or even lottery winnings), but there is no way on earth they can tell you a current salary. This info just isn't collected, how could they?
Cant collect it?? THEY DO COLLECT IT
did i say current salary? or did i just say gross salary?
Gross salary declared on the last p60 that might have been, who really cares, all im saying is that the info is available from name, DOB and address and that you do not have to be asked for this info.
gary_580
10-09-2004, 21:37
Equifax - :knock:
Credit reference companies run quite complicated programs to esimate your income from known facts, nothing more.
yes they do and its stated as an ESTIMATED figure. There are many credit reference companies that use the figures declared to the inland revenue as that is usually reliable infomation
Cant collect it?? THEY DO COLLECT ITIf you say so. :erm:
I think the closest they generally get is lifestyle surveys in which one of the questions is what salary bracket do you fall into.
yes they do and its stated as an ESTIMATED figure. There are many credit reference companies that use the figures declared to the inland revenue as that is usually reliable infomationMany ? - just how many CR companies do you think there are ? - and since when have the IR started giving out your tax information ?
gary_580
10-09-2004, 21:54
Many ? - just how many CR companies do you think there are ? - and since when have the IR started giving out your tax information ?
There are 4 or 5 that i know of, how many there are in total i have no idea. Coming from Nottingham you should know at least one
There are 4 or 5 that i know of, how many there are in total i have no idea. Coming from Nottingham you should know at least onePerhaps you should check my profile ;)
There are two CR companies in the UK. See http://www.debthelpuk.co.uk/help/creditreference.htm
gary_580
10-09-2004, 22:09
Perhaps you should check my profile ;)
There are two CR companies in the UK. See http://www.debthelpuk.co.uk/help/creditreference.htm
I wasnt talking about the UK only as i work for an Australian company? I have no need to check anyones profile as im talking from personal experience.
What about callcredit as well?
http://www.moneyworld.co.uk/glossary/gl00138.htm
not sure is Checksure are still going or if they hand off to another company
gary_580
10-09-2004, 22:23
That was a quick deletion Mal ;)
That was a quick deletion Mal ;)
I'd just re-read your post properly. Darn those emails ;)
gary_580
10-09-2004, 22:26
I'd just re-read your post properly. Darn those emails ;)
no email, i saw it and was about to reply and it vanished :D
Cant collect it?? THEY DO COLLECT IT
From where? Your employer doesn't give them that info, its not requested when you apply for credit and the tax man wouldn't disclose that sort of info, so exactly where do you think that they collect this info from? :confused:
The bottom line is that Fred Bloggs signs up for his ntl/BT/Sky service & agrees to pay for said service (not unreasonable IMO)
The point that I made ages ago, was that it is still Fred Bloggs' responsibility to pay for that service that he signed up for, & if a cashflow situation arose-Fred should contact ntl/BT/Sky to discuss the situation, & make alternative arrangements (perhaps pay it next month & also downgrade for a month to reduce next month's bill for example?)
But at the end of the day, there is no excuse for not paying a bill & expecting ntl/BT/Sky/whoever to be totally ok with it.
Yet I have *still* to see anyone actually *SAY* that they "expect whatever company to be totally ok with it"!
Will someone please either A) Provide a quote where someone *has* said this or B) STOP CLAIMING THIS!
as Fred is clearly aware that sometimes he doesn't receive all he should from his customers, he should have a 'Plan B' in place to pay people he has agreed to pay for services he receives.
Have you ever run a small business? Have you ever worked on a contract only basis? Have you ever *had* a problem where you need to pay out more than you've got available at the moment? If not, then, with all due respect, I think you have little idea of what you're talking about.
It's easy to make glib statements like this and "Fred should do this or that", but it is not always so easy in the real world.
Someone not paying being able to pay their bill is one thing, & I'm sure if Fred rang up xxx LTD & explained the situation, they would just let Fred pay some/all of it the next month.
PRESUMING of course that Fred can actually GET THROUGH to them which is what started the whole thread in the first place...!!! :rolleyes:
But someone just not paying the bill simply because they have cashflow problems & expecting xxx LTD to be totally ok with it is simply wrong IMHO.
:banghead:
all of these things cost money and someone has to pay for that.
And I'll give you three guesses as to who...!
You could go to the other extreme and have a system that automatically says, no pay then no play (ie disconnects you automatically and you ar charged to be reconnected, aggreed its inflexible but its cheap to run!!)
And it gives the impression that Big Company [TM] doesn't give a toss about its customers, is more interested in money that people and would probably be a PR disaster, followed by a large number of people voting with their feet and going to the competition who have a more understanding policy!
I'm talking about firms generally, not ntl specifically.
And I was using NTL simply as an example of *bad* customer service. Fortunately most large companies don't have quite such an arrogant and lackadasical attitude as NTL sometimes seems to portray.
If you did some credit control training, you'd understand most of what you've written is tosh. The customer needs to pay the bill, end of story.
Ah, because I haven't done "credit control training" I can't have a valid opinion on the subject :rolleyes:
However if you'd bothered to *read* what I wrote, you would have noticed that I am not saying that the customer doesn't need to pay the bill (and *nobody* has said this!) I am saying that the company needs to understand that in the Real World, things are not as "simple" as you portray.
If a newspaper wants to run a story about how a customer who didn't pay their bill got cut off, they'd find little interest or sympathy. If you've used the services, pay for them. Simple.
And I have seen numerous stories in newspapers, on Working Lunch and other consumer programmes about customers being cut off by large businesses because of "non-payment", often due to the large businesses screwing up, taking the money from the wrong account, not issuing bills in the first place, issuing bills for the wrong amounts and, of course, customers not being able to *contact* the company in the first place (remember the start of the thread?!) to try to sort out the problem with payment!
As an aside, I also challenge you to provide evidence that someone at ntl told you they'd "get round to fixing it eventually". If you name them, I'll make sure they're dealt with.
I refer you to the post by gary_580!
But the point is that this is not *one person* saying "we'll get around to it" it's NTL's entire corporate attitude.
How many posts have there been on here complaining about NTL's poor e-mail/ newsgroup/ broadband/ whatever performance and their record in sorting these problems out? And what do we get from NTL? Bland statements that "the problem is being looked into" followed by damn all very often.
Customer relations means *exactly that*, you keep your customers informed otherwise they're going to think that you couldn't care less and they're going to go to a business that does!
Unless you've ever run a company made up by at least 21
smaller companies, with nearly 14000 employees and 3,000,000 customers, you've just proved my point.... :rolleyes:
Good business practice and good customer relations and good customer service are the same whether you're a one man business or a multi-million pound international organisation.
****** enough customers off and you *HAVE* no business because they're all going to go to the competition who have a better attitude.
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