Gay men and children

[greencreeper]

Ages ago Electrolyte needed help with a Linux issue so I added him to my MSN list, and we still chat. I've often wondered what his parents would make of him chatting to a much older gay man. Would they think I was trying to seduce him? Would they worry that their perfect son had strayed onto the wild side - and blame me for leading him there?

So, any thoughts? Would you feel uneasy about your teenage son talking to an, er, old puff? What if the leader of the youth group or art teacher was gay - would being able to talk to the person and see him make any difference? What about gay men adopting children - is that appropriate or do think a female is needed? Why do you think there are issues, or am I being paranoid and in reality there are none?

Say what you think and feel, not what you're supposed to think and feel :)

[Damien]

I reakon it depends on the parents and if they are anti-gay or not, a lot of people will act like they dont care but will reveal that they do actually feel un-easy about the 'gay' thing.

My Mum would be uneasy and my dad wouldnt care for example but a llot of the parents who are deeply intrenched in their views would propely be uneasy/angry (and that would be a large number of parents)

The problem is that a lot of parents in the current climite and fear from the media would be very uneasy about their child speaking to a older man on the internet anyway, let allone a man who is gay.

Teachers and leaders shouldnt matter if they are gay or not as for the parents thing i think thats a gray area. Although gay parents should be allowed to have children as long as they dont force their lifestyle on the child.

[Escapee]

Ages ago Electrolyte needed help with a Linux issue so I added him to my MSN list, and we still chat. I've often wondered what his parents would make of him chatting to a much older gay man. Would they think I was trying to seduce him? Would they worry that their perfect son had strayed onto the wild side - and blame me for leading him there?

So, any thoughts? Would you feel uneasy about your teenage son talking to an, er, old puff? What if the leader of the youth group or art teacher was gay - would being able to talk to the person and see him make any difference? What about gay men adopting children - is that appropriate or do think a female is needed? Why do you think there are issues, or am I being paranoid and in reality there are none?

Say what you think and feel, not what you're supposed to think and feel :)

Yes, I would be worried about my son speaking to a much older gay man. I have not avoided the question and hope you dont take offence at my honest answer.

On the other hand I can see it from your point of view, just because you are interested in men doesn't mean you fancy every man or young boy. It's just the same that I dont fancy every woman I see walking down the street.
I am always uneasy about the subject and wouldn't get too involved in a project with the scouts because it is the route taken by males looking for childre. I also refused to look after a former girlfriends daughter whilst she went out for the night, because I would never want to be wrongly accused of anything like that.

I was in a situation towards the end of last year when a gilfriend dumped me and said she couldnt trust me because I was not religious and may interfere with her two young daughters like Ian Huntley did!
I was shocked, and don't know how she could of come to this conclusion, then I wondered if it was because I'm in my late 30's never been married and I am living alone. I suppose it could make some people wonder about me, and quite frankly I can understand it.

I suppose the situation could be classed as similar, perhaps someone such as yourself who is obviously very open is actually safer than someone who is not so open.

For the record, I am straight and honest. There was absolutely no reason for the things the woman said, I never actually met her kids for her to come to any conclusions.

[Russ]

I don't think a straight male is any more at 'risk' (for lack of a better word) of being seduced by an older gay man than a young female would be from an older straight bloke. In the instance of the Youth Leader, as long as he/she had completed a disclosure form from the local police to say they had no convictions then I guess it wouldn't bother me too much.

[Bifta]

Say what you think and feel, not what you're supposed to think and feel :)

I think it depends on the person they're conversing with, personally I wouldn't want my children conversing with you, but that's nothing to do with your sexual preferences, I just find you a little creepy and would worry for their safety, gut feeling of course, nothing I can substantiate or argue.

[greencreeper]

I reakon it depends on the parents and if they are anti-gay or not, a lot of people will act like they dont care but will reveal that they do actually feel un-easy about the 'gay' thing.

My Mum would be uneasy and my dad wouldnt care for example but a llot of the parents who are deeply intrenched in their views would propely be uneasy/angry (and that would be a large number of parents)

The problem is that a lot of parents in the current climite and fear from the media would be very uneasy about their child speaking to a older man on the internet anyway, let allone a man who is gay.

Teachers and leaders shouldnt matter if they are gay or not as for the parents thing i think thats a gray area. Although gay parents should be allowed to have children as long as they dont force their lifestyle on the child.

I'd rep you for the depth of perception but this flaming thing won't let me :rolleyes:

I can't disagree with anything you say - particularly the opening statement. Even my own mum pretends to be fine about my sexuality but she's not really. I think she pretends partly because she feels (being educated and intelligent) that she should, and partly because it's a mum's job to love regardless.

Being gay isn't a lifestyle BTW - we don't choose. If we did most of us would be straight :D I think you meant sexuality, and I'm not sure you can make someone gay - or straight for that matter. They might be able to pretend but it's tremendously damaging.

[Macca371]

To be completely honest if my parents found out that I talked to an old gay man, I guess I don't think they'd approve :rolleyes: but I guess that all parents would have some sensitivity and protection in this way? I don't think there's anything homophobic about it, if I was female and was talking to an old heterosexual man I guess they would be just as sensitive. I think it's also the 'perverted' image which is often wrongly associated with the internet and people who communicate on it, I think this is because there have been so many negative reports about chatting on the internet and it is an unsure environment.

I used to have extra french lessons after school because I was taking the subject earlier and my teacher was openly gay and is in his forties. My parents had no problem with that.

I couldn't care less. I never respect anybody any less because of their sexuality.

[Ramrod]

I would allow it but I would also seek out some way to 'check up' on the conversations from time to time (keystroke logger or something) to see if things were taking any 'undesirable' turns. I know it's deceitful, sneaky and underhand but when it comes to protecting my kids I have no shame :shrug:

[Damien]

I'd rep you for the depth of perception but this flaming thing won't let me :rolleyes:

I can't disagree with anything you say - particularly the opening statement. Even my own mum pretends to be fine about my sexuality but she's not really. I think she pretends partly because she feels (being educated and intelligent) that she should, and partly because it's a mum's job to love regardless.

Being gay isn't a lifestyle BTW - we don't choose. If we did most of us would be straight :D I think you meant sexuality, and I'm not sure you can make someone gay - or straight for that matter. They might be able to pretend but it's tremendously damaging.
I mean that sex education should not be affected by the parents, gay or not. Gay parents should in no way make their children think that being gay is what they should be. And also straight parents should not force their children to be straight nor should they make them feel ashamed if they do turn out to be gay

[Russ]

I mean that sex education should not be affected by the parents, gay or not. Gay parents should in no way make their children think that being gay is what they should be. And also straight parents should not force their children to be straight nor should they make them feel ashamed if they do turn out to be gay

As a parent, you do what you feel is best for the child.

[greencreeper]

Yes, I would be worried about my son speaking to a much older gay man. I have not avoided the question and hope you dont take offence at my honest answer.
<snip>

No offence. I hear what you're saying - I feel the same. It's a shame society, largely due to the media, now has a culture of fear regarding men and children. We shouldn't feel afraid, nor should we automatically come under suspicion, but sadly we do.



I think it depends on the person they're conversing with, personally I wouldn't want my children conversing with you, but that's nothing to do with your sexual preferences, I just find you a little creepy and would worry for their safety, gut feeling of course, nothing I can substantiate or argue.

Er, right. Do you feel able to elaborate on the "creepy"?



I think it's also the 'perverted' image which is often wrongly associated with the internet and people who communicate on it, I think this is because there have been so many negative reports about chatting on the internet and it is an unsure environment.

Good point. Again it's the media - there's a perv waiting behind every MSN conversation, and lurking in every chatroom. Utter nonsense but since when did the truth count for anything?



I would allow it but I would also seek out some way to 'check up' on the conversations from time to time (keystroke logger or something) to see if things were taking any 'undesirable' turns. I know it's deceitful, sneaky and underhand but when it comes to protecting my kids I have no shame :shrug:
Without criticism, and I understand what you're saying, but do you not think it would be better to trust your kids to come to you if there was a problem, rather than showing them mistrust by monitoring them?

[Damien]

I would allow it but I would also seek out some way to 'check up' on the conversations from time to time (keystroke logger or something) to see if things were taking any 'undesirable' turns. I know it's deceitful, sneaky and underhand but when it comes to protecting my kids I have no shame :shrug: You can get MSN to save conservations into a folder of your choice, so just get msn to save it into a folder located on your password.

Again i think that the fact the child is talking to a adult on the internet would be of far greater concern to most parents than if they are gay or not.

[greencreeper]

As a parent, you do what you feel is best for the child.


As a decent parent yeah. Chavs are proof positive that not all parents are decent. I think if you try hard to get it right and bring your kids up well, that's all that can be asked of you. But yeah - the first instinct should be to do what's best.

[Damien]

As a decent parent yeah. Chavs are proof positive that not all parents are decent. I think if you try hard to get it right and bring your kids up well, that's all that can be asked of you. But yeah - the first instinct should be to do what's best.
Surely the best thing to do IS to to try as hard as possible to bring them up right, but i surpose its if you view being gay as 'wrong'.

Would you make a hard effort to make sure your child is not gay? more to the point, would you feel ashamed if they where?

[Ramrod]

I'd rep you for the depth of perception but this flaming thing won't let me :rolleyes:.done.....

[Macca371]

As for gay couples to be able to adopt children, I totally do not know. You must ask whether or not it is fair on the child - he could be subject to a school life of bullying if everybody knew that he had two Dads or two Mums. I also think that psychologically a child requires a father and a mother for balanced development, so would it be fair on the child?

But then again, is it fair on gay people to never be able to be a parent?

Tough issue I'm afraid.

[Ramrod]

Again i think that the fact the child is talking to a adult on the internet would be of far greater concern to most parents than if they are gay or not.
Absolutely!

[Ramrod]

Without criticism, and I understand what you're saying, but do you not think it would be better to trust your kids to come to you if there was a problem, rather than showing them mistrust by monitoring them?Of course.....but would they know there was a 'problem'?

[greencreeper]

Of course.....but would they know there was a 'problem'?


That would depend on the parenting skills of the parent - if a kid has a sense of what's right and wrong, and is aware that not all adults are nice people like mum and dad, then they should be alright. When I say kid, I'm taking about someone in their mid-teens - 15/16. No way should, say, a 10 year old be left to use the Internet unsupervised or be allowed to use MSN/chat :no: That's why I dislike nanny software - it's just a very poor substitute for decent parenting.

[Paul]

Say what you think and feel, not what you're supposed to think and feel :)Okay :)

Should gay men adopt children ? - on their own - No.

I don't think any single man (or woman) should adopt children, be they gay or otherwise. Nor do I believe so called 'gay couples' (two men/women) should either. I believe a child needs a mother and a father, simple as that.

I don't have a teenage son, but I do have three [younger] daughters and I would not be at all happy with them chatting to much older men, I would most certainly make sure it was logged for me to check on. :)

I don't worry about gay teachers [or gay people in general] as long as they don't try and promote their lifestyle to me (or my children) as being the normal way of things - because no matter how much gays protest about it and call me names (usually ending in "...phobic" :rolleyes: ), *I* do not consider gay to be the normal, natural way of things (and please do not confuse this with thinking it is bad, I do not consider it bad, I just do not consider it the norm).

So there you have it. :cool:

[Damien]

Of course.....but would they know there was a 'problem'?
I agree, i think that it would be a good idea for a parent to keep a careful eye on their childs net activitys. Not just because of 'dirty old men (or women)' but i would imagine that a parent would fear their child being exposed to certain themes to early in life.

[greencreeper]

Okay :)

Should gay men adopt children ? - on their own - No.

I don't think any single man (or woman) should adopt children, be they gay or otherwise. Nor do I believe so called 'gay couples' (two men/women) should either. I believe a child needs a mother and a father, simple as that.

I don't have a teenage son, but I do have three [younger] daughters and I would not be at all happy with them chatting to much older men, I would most certainly make sure it was logged for me to check on. :)

I don't worry about gay teachers [or gay people in general] as long as they don't try and promote their lifestyle to me (or my children) as being the normal way of things - because no matter how much gays protest about it and call me names (usually ending in "...phobic" :rolleyes: ), *I* do not consider gay to be the normal, natural way of things (and please do not confuse this with thinking it is bad, I do not consider it bad, I just do not consider it the norm).

So there you have it. :cool:


Thanks for your honesty - appreciated.

I'm beginning to wonder what I've done - creepy, abnormal and unnatural so far. I'll just dust down my mac :D Wanna come look at my puppies?

[Damien]

Okay :)

Should gay men adopt children ? - on their own - No.

I don't think any single man (or woman) should adopt children, be they gay or otherwise. Nor do I believe so called 'gay couples' (two men/women) should either. I believe a child needs a mother and a father, simple as that.

I don't have a teenage son, but I do have three [younger] daughters and I would not be at all happy with them chatting to much older men, I would most certainly make sure it was logged for me to check on. :)

I don't worry about gay teachers [or gay people in general] as long as they don't try and promote their lifestyle to me (or my children) as being the normal way of things - because no matter how much gays protest about it and call me names (usually ending in "...phobic" :rolleyes: ), *I* do not consider gay to be the normal, natural way of things (and please do not confuse this with thinking it is bad, I do not consider it bad, I just do not consider it the norm).

So there you have it. :cool:
Good post and i agree on most points, although i am not sure about a gay couple having a kid its a real grey area. Also as for gays not beiing 'normal' i think a lot of gay people would agree. I am not gay and i dont consider it normal but the thing to remember is that i dont think people CHOSE to be gay rather they just happen to be so.....

[Maggy]

If you suspect your child is gay why not trust them and ask?Could it be that parents know but just don't want to acknowledge it?

I asked my daughter.She admits to swinging in both directions.However we have yet to inform her father or anyone else in the family.I suggested that a former Royal Naval Charge Chief that has a hatred for gays developed by the old attitudes engendered by that institution needs to be approached carefully and with many dropped hints along the way.

My son tells me he is most definitely not gay and judging by some of the 'literature' in his room I believe him.He just doesn't like the representatives of the female gender that he is aquainted with at school thus far which is why he is avoiding the dating ordeal that so many of his age have to stumble through.

So I say again if you want to know ask.Unless you are scared of the answer.

As for the older man gay or otherwise chatting to my daughter or son I don't mind.Not everyone is a paedophile after all.It's when my daughter wanted to meet anyone that I panicked and insisted on going with her. ;)

My son has thus far shown no real interest in chat rooms until this year when his PC broke and he had nothing to do but visit Xbox forums on my PC.If he wants to meet someone I will no doubt go with him just to check. ;)

Incog.

[dr wadd]

I was in a situation towards the end of last year when a gilfriend dumped me and said she couldnt trust me because I was not religious and may interfere with her two young daughters like Ian Huntley did!
I was shocked, and don't know how she could of come to this conclusion, then I wondered if it was because I'm in my late 30's never been married and I am living alone. I suppose it could make some people wonder about me, and quite frankly I can understand it.

It's hardly as though being a single guy in your late 30s is a particularly uncommon thing though. Frankly, if she can come out with wonderful "logic" such as that you are probably best out of it. I find her justification that it is because you aren`t religious to be rather ironic, did you point her in the direction of any news articles concerning Catholic priests in American?

[Damien]

Thanks for your honesty - appreciated.

I'm beginning to wonder what I've done - creepy, abnormal and unnatural so far. I'll just dust down my mac :D Wanna come look at my puppies?
maybe its because you have 'creeper' in your name :D When you say MAC do you mean coat or computer?

If you mean computer then i kill you ;)

[greencreeper]

maybe its because you have 'creeper' in your name :D When you say MAC do you mean coat or computer?

If you mean computer then i kill you ;)


:D

I think (can't be sure) that greencreeper is a Stephen King word - if memory serves, he was recalling a dinner party where a kid overheard the adults discussing the "grim reaper" and the kid had nightmares afterwards about the "greencreeper". I think I might have made things worse :D It was the first thing that came to mind :(

Mac as in the plastic thing, and not the poor substitute for a proper PC ;)

[Maggy]

OH dear you had to mention plastic macs and substitutes.

I feel a Who album is called for.......I wonder where it is?

[dilli-theclaw]

I can't honestly say for sure - I think I'd watch a couple of conversations to see what the other person was like...

I'll let you know when/if I ever get into that situation.

It doesn't bother me by the way :)

[greencreeper]

OH dear you had to mention plastic macs and substitutes.

I feel a Who album is called for.......I wonder where it is?
:D

Now that is a long time ago Coggy! Crumbs.

[Maggy]

:D

Now that is a long time ago Coggy! Crumbs.

I'm backdated. ;)

[Ramrod]

That would depend on the parenting skills of the parent - if a kid has a sense of what's right and wrong, and is aware that not all adults are nice people like mum and dad, then they should be alright. When I say kid, I'm taking about someone in their mid-teens - 15/16. No way should, say, a 10 year old be left to use the Internet unsupervised or be allowed to use MSN/chat :no: That's why I dislike nanny software - it's just a very poor substitute for decent parenting.Good point but I feel that no matter how good your parenting, the child might still do something stupid. I certainly did....

[greencreeper]

Good point but I feel that no matter how good your parenting, the child might still do something stupid. I certainly did....

You could say the same for adults :D but point taken. A guess if parents took an interest in what they were doing, that would help. Too many parents don't understand the box with the wires coming out the back and tend to use it as a reward and/or pacifier.

[Damien]

Mac as in the plastic thing, and not the poor substitute for a proper PC ;)

:shocked: Well, i wouldnt let anyone talk to you if you dont like macs ;):D

kidding....:p:

[Damien]

Good point but I feel that no matter how good your parenting, the child might still do something stupid. I certainly did....
ummm.....will you be expanding on that or would you rather not?:confused:

[Maggy]

You could say the same for adults :D but point taken. A guess if parents took an interest in what they were doing, that would help. Too many parents don't understand the box with the wires coming out the back and tend to use it as a reward and/or pacifier.

The mistake is allowing the child access to the internet out of sight in a bedroom or study.Ours is in the combined living room/dining room.It's in full view of everyone.

[greencreeper]

The mistake is allowing the child access to the internet out of sight in a bedroom or study.Ours is in the combined living room/dining room.It's in full view of everyone.
Yeah - good point Coggy :tu:

[MadGamer]

I agree, i think that it would be a good idea for a parent to keep a careful eye on their childs net activitys. Not just because of 'dirty old men (or women)' but i would imagine that a parent would fear their child being exposed to certain themes to early in life. Norton Internet Security for safety?

[Damien]

Good parenting and education, not just for the child, but for the parents who do not understand the internet would be far more effective than a computer program (which can be by-passed easily anyway). After all norton wont stop pervos or block all sites

The Issue is far more complex than blocking a few porn sites and stoping a few viruses

[Electrolyte01]

greencreeper can I have a word with you on messenger after this? :erm:

And back on-topic, I don't tell my parents anything, my life I do what I want + talk to who I want, I used to know some one at my school for 4 years who was gay and I didn't give a damn about it.

[Florence]

I understand why some children struggle to tell their parents that they are guy. It is the fear of rejection by the parent. Since becoming a mod on our forums I had the chance to meet ups with the other Mods. I felt out of place and was refusing to meet up in Manchester so they said they would come to my house if I didn't. I found out a few weeks before the meet that the oldest was 18yrs old and the youngest just 16yrs. At my age I felt awkward but what a great crowd we talked and interviewed an ISP MD before they caught their trainââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s home.

I have to say parents have to trust the children if they have been good parents the children will not disappoint them.

I have trusted my two children talking to people who are guy on MSN and know they are like me understanding of the gay community. We treat them no differently to our other online friends and I have often bee the listening ear for an upset gay person.

[Ramrod]

ummm.....will you be expanding on that or would you rather not?:confused:
Too many things to mention :p:

[greencreeper]

One important point is that gay men are just like straight men in terms of desire - this has already being touched upon. Just because I'm gay and I chat to a male, doesn't mean I want to bed them. In my case I prefer older men (at the very least in their mid-twenties) and, for example, I have a thing for tall men just like a straight man might have a thing for women with black hair and green eyes.

[TheBlueRaja]

I understand why some children struggle to tell their parents that they are guy.

I didnt have to tell my parents i was guy - they always knew. :D

Oh - and as for the old guy / young kid thing - well - uneasy on that one i have to admit - but im 28 and speak to loads of young people on here, most of the time without even knowing it, but using MSN and developing a friendship is a little different IMO.

Saying that - your not that old at 27, but still... Oh i dunno - i suppose it depends what the context of the online relationship was...

It intreages me why you had to mention you were gay though - why not just that you felt uneasy speaking with a much younger person than you as opposed to mentioning that?

[greencreeper]

I didnt have to tell my parents i was guy - they always knew. :D
:rofl:

[punky]

From my parents' view, I think they would have a problem generally. Not so much now, but if I was 12 maybe. They are fairly conservative, and just see it being as abnormal. I'm guessing as they see it that way, like they wouldn't want their child to be abnormal in any way. In a sense its not really their fault, it was just the way they were raised. I know a few tend to want their sons to avoid it because its a hard life - what with the opression they still have to face. Which funnily enough is caused by the very same people, so it is of their own making. Nowadays my parents wouldn't mind so much as my informative years are probably over. Actually I don't think they would have minded when I was 12 because I was born fairly mature and sensible (or in my dad's words: "An old woman") :). It meant they never really hassled me like they did with the other two.

From my own perspective, when I become a parent, it wouldn't bother me. I don't see gays as abnormal, and people shouldn't be "punished" for a lifestyle choice that does noone no harm. If I caught anyone trying to influence his sexuality, i'd be angry, as I would if it was anything, big or small. If he came to the descision of his own free will, then i'd be as happy as if he was straight and support him. I would probably kinda worry about it, not because gay people do that, but because everyone does it. Be with drugs, or criminal mischief, etc. Actually i'd much rather raise a gay person than a homophobe.

I would like to say though, you seem like an alright bloke to me, so you'd be pretty much exempt from the second paragraph description.

[greencreeper]

From my parents view, I think they would have a problem generally. Not so much now, but if I was 12 maybe. They are fairly conservative, and just see it being as abnormal. I'm guessing as they see it that way, like they wouldn't want their child to be abnormal in any way. In a sense its not really their fault, it was just the way they were raised. I know a few tend to want their sons to avoid it because its a hard life - what with the opression they still have to face. Which funnily enough is caused by the very same people, so it is of their own making. Nowadays my parents wouldn't mind so much as my informative years are probably over. Actually I don't think they would of minded when I was 12 because I was born fairly mature and sensible (or in my dad's words: "An old woman") :). It meant they never really hassled me like they did with the other two.
<snip>

I really like how you've just poured out your thoughts and feelings. It's refreshing. Too many people filter what they think and feel - sort of prepare it for the world.



I would like to say though, you seem like an alright bloke to me, so you'd be pretty much exempt from the second paragraph description.

:o No comment :)

[Richard M]

Wow!
Is it just me or are we witnessing a proper debate on CF without it decending into rep wars and suspensions!? :D

[Macca371]

Currently, I think that I wouldn't mind a kid of mine talking to an adult on the internet.

However, I believe that if I do become a parent and I develop paternal instincts, I probably will be much more protective and I think that I would mind. It's nothing to do with homosexuality, as I said before, I probably wouldn't like a daughter of mine to talk to an older male on the internet in the same way.

[Richard M]

Personally, I would be very wary of any adult talking to my daughter on the net.
If it was my son I wouldn't feel so bad about it but if I had a daughter I wouuldn't want her speaking to older guys if she's under 16.
I know the way the net works* so I would have a hard time trusting them.

*For example, my ex (who is now one of my best mates) gets hassled non-stop about the fact that she's female every time she plays Ghost Recon or Call of Duty online by stupid male geeks who can't get a real girlfriend. :grind: :(

"You're a girl??? Got a pic?" Losers... :upyours:

[Florence]

Personally, I would be very wary of any adult talking to my daughter on the net.
If it was my son I wouldn't feel so bad about it but if I had a daughter I wouuldn't want her speaking to older guys if she's under 16.
I know the way the net works* so I would have a hard time trusting them.

I was worried but my daughter has shown that she is a responsible young adult and the only time she arranged to meet anyone off the net. She had known online for over a year and asked me to be with her. She still meats this lad some 2 yrs later and she is almost 17. His parents was as worried as me and his mother turned up with him. They have become close regardless of the miles they now live apart.


*For example, my ex (who is now one of my best mates) gets hassled non-stop about the fact that she's female every time she plays Ghost Recon or Call of Duty online by stupid male geeks who can't get a real girlfriend. :grind: :(

"You're a girl??? Got a pic?" Losers... :upyours:

Thats a man problem Richard we get some coming into our chatroom asking my a/s/l they normally get put in their place. In a very nice way or kicked for not listening.

I have many online people I do chat with most are younger than me some are gay but I really don't have a problem with that. We are all equal regardless.

[Shaun]

Say what you think and feel, not what you're supposed to think and feel :)

I hope you didn't cut yourself when you opened this can of worms! :erm: :p:

[greencreeper]

Wow!
Is it just me or are we witnessing a proper debate on CF without it decending into rep wars and suspensions!? :D

Good isn't it :)



Personally, I would be very wary of any adult talking to my daughter on the net.
If it was my son I wouldn't feel so bad about it but if I had a daughter I wouuldn't want her speaking to older guys if she's under 16.
I know the way the net works* so I would have a hard time trusting them.

For me, an older man talking to a girl (15/16) is a very different thing to an older man talking to a boy. I can't explain why - I just think the issues are different somehow. It's the whole Lolita thing - the insecurities of the older male.



*For example, my ex (who is now one of my best mates) gets hassled non-stop about the fact that she's female every time she plays Ghost Recon or Call of Duty online by stupid male geeks who can't get a real girlfriend. :grind: :(

"You're a girl??? Got a pic?" Losers... :upyours:

Yeah but you have to understand that for them they've found the Holy Grail - a woman that can talk their language :D

[greencreeper]

I hope you didn't cut yourself when you opened this can of worms! :erm: :p:
I was wondering when you'd put in a post :D What can I say in my defence? Some worms need to see daylight once in a while :) On the whole the thread is quite sane and balanced though.

[Richard M]

For me, an older man talking to a girl (15/16) is a very different thing to an older man talking to a boy. I can't explain why - I just think the issues are different somehow. It's the whole Lolita thing - the insecurities of the older male.


That's because, in general, a man should be able to look after himself - that's the way we're are brought up and that is the way a man should think.
That is why I'd be more protective over a daughter than a son.


Yeah but you have to understand that for them they've found the Holy Grail - a woman that can talk their language :D

No doubt, but they're still losers... :p:

[Shaun]

I was wondering when you'd put in a post :D What can I say in my defence? Some worms need to see daylight once in a while :) On the whole the thread is quite sane and balanced though.

Bit too deep and meaningful for me this week I'm afraid :(

Glad no one's been banned or red repped (yet) :shocked:

[kronas]

Ages ago Electrolyte needed help with a Linux issue so I added him to my MSN list, and we still chat. I've often wondered what his parents would make of him chatting to a much older gay man. Would they think I was trying to seduce him? Would they worry that their perfect son had strayed onto the wild side - and blame me for leading him there?

So, any thoughts? Would you feel uneasy about your teenage son talking to an, er, old puff? What if the leader of the youth group or art teacher was gay - would being able to talk to the person and see him make any difference? What about gay men adopting children - is that appropriate or do think a female is needed? Why do you think there are issues, or am I being paranoid and in reality there are none?

Say what you think and feel, not what you're supposed to think and feel :)

despite the gay parents issue being discussed before along with the rest ill add my comment.

i personally have no problems with gay people, i am freinds with some that are, if my parents knew or any of my other freinds that some of them are gay it WOULD be a huge issue, other people would turn their backs on the few that are gay including my parents and urge me to 'stay away' from people like 'them' its not simply because they 'fear' them but its the typical stigma attached with the mentality of 'catching aids etc...

the paranoia thing is just there in some people as with any issue people are very dismissive of subjects that they dont understand, this adds to the furore thats caused by the 'community' and condemnation by others around the area if they knew, then it would become one sided and as per misconceptions.

personally people should accept others as the they are, to be honest i see a person as a human being, nothing changes my attitude towards gay people, i treat then equally, but others will not, a certain fear grows in some people about the mentality such as 'he might influence my son' or 'my son might catch something' then the thought control of 'is my son gay' all sorts of things like that going through the minds of parents.

for the most part its ignorance on those peoples part, i just continue as usual, sexuality is a non effectant thing in freindships, i still would not tell anyone else, i KNOW some of my freinds and my parents especially would react badly.

its not and has never been an issue for me.

for some it is, thats why you leave things as they are the people who know are known to be ok with it.

gay people should be parents.

the parents of those people who are gay that i know are not homosexuals themselves.

[greencreeper]

despite the gay parents issue being discussed before along with the rest ill add my comment.

Has it? Must have missed that thread - or it took a nose dive.

Interesting comments Kronas - ta :)

[downquark1]

I would have no problem with letting someone talk with a gay man, is their any difference letting a young man talk with an older woman?

I find it strange that people use the word normal when describing this issue, for me it's a simple matter of:
A percentage of people are gay, a percentage of people have always been gay, throughout history. Therefore it is normal for a percentage of people to be gay.

I don't agree with all the nannying systems, I would hope the person talking has the ability to recognise to use the block button if the conversation leads that way.

[Damien]

I think normal is used because of lack of a better word, not as an attack on the gay community.

[Ramrod]

Yeah but you have to understand that for them they've found the Holy Grail - a woman that can talk their language :Dlol.......when I was 17 I had a g/f who was into RPG's and Sci-Fi/Fantasy......and she was a looker.........fantastic! :D

[basa]

From my own point of view (I have two young daughters) it matters not whom they talk to on the net, be they male, female gay or straight. It is the 'intent' that is important.

I have less problem with them talking to gays (male or female) than possible 'perv' grey mac straight guys. The main problem is how do you know which is which anyway. :erm:

<basa logs onto MSN and dons grey mac>

[Florence]

It is never easy to tell who is a perv or not until they type messages and the conversation turns that way. I have found that when having a conversation with my online friends those that are gay are more sensitive and express themselves slightly differently. Some more flamboyant than others but there is a difference. A perv is the hardest to detect and both my children are very good with the block button.

There is one thing that I have explained to my two children if a friend has told them they are gay that they shouldn't tell others its up to the person who they tell and we have to respect that.

[tkiely]

There seems to be some misconception among parts of society that being gay means you are also a perv or a paedophile!

As mentioned before, its the 'intent' of the person speaking to your child that matters, not sexual persuasion, gender or even age. Some of the kids can be as bad as the adults.

[Graham]

"You're a girl??? Got a pic?" Losers... :upyours:

Get a picture of her smiling and behind her you standing there with a large axe and grinning like a maniac! "Him? Oh, that's my dad...!" :D

[Graham]

So I decide to have an evening off from forums and play some Shogun: Total War, and when I come back, I find I've missed a thread like this :(

Some comments:

Firstly, as always, the threat to children from strangers is exaggerated, an abuser is much more likely to be a close family member/ friend/ trusted adult.

Secondly, there's more older straight guys out there pretending to be young boys (or girls) cruising for young girls than alleged "predatory gays".

Thirdly, as has been pointed out already, there is a definite element of parental responsibility. If your child said "It's 9pm I'm going to the local park to chat to anyone I meet there", any responsible parent would say "no way!", but they seem happy to let kids chat on the net without supervision, not realising it's a gateway to the whole world. They should either keep an eye on them or talk to them about what happens.

Fourthly, being gay doesn't mean you're automatically a paedophile or interested in "seducing" or "corrupting" young boys. Making prejudiced judgements like this says more about the speaker.

Finally: EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN! I keep saying this and maybe, someday, people will take notice. TELL them about sex, ALL of it, not just the bits that you "approve of", treat them as adults and they're more likely to be behave in an adult way.

If you lie to them or suppress information they need, they'll find out one way or another and their attitude is going to be "well if they don't trust me, why should I bother listening to them?"

Your choice.

[Maggy]

So I decide to have an evening off from forums and play some Shogun: Total War, and when I come back, I find I've missed a thread like this :(

Some comments:

Firstly, as always, the threat to children from strangers is exaggerated, an abuser is much more likely to be a close family member/ friend/ trusted adult.

Secondly, there's more older straight guys out there pretending to be young boys (or girls) cruising for young girls than alleged "predatory gays".

Thirdly, as has been pointed out already, there is a definite element of parental responsibility. If your child said "It's 9pm I'm going to the local park to chat to anyone I meet there", any responsible parent would say "no way!", but they seem happy to let kids chat on the net without supervision, not realising it's a gateway to the whole world. They should either keep an eye on them or talk to them about what happens.

Fourthly, being gay doesn't mean you're automatically a paedophile or interested in "seducing" or "corrupting" young boys. Making prejudiced judgements like this says more about the speaker.

Finally: EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN! I keep saying this and maybe, someday, people will take notice. TELL them about sex, ALL of it, not just the bits that you "approve of", treat them as adults and they're more likely to be behave in an adult way.

If you lie to them or suppress information they need, they'll find out one way or another and their attitude is going to be "well if they don't trust me, why should I bother listening to them?"

Your choice.

Well said. :tu:

[Nugget]

So I decide to have an evening off from forums and play some Shogun: Total War, and when I come back, I find I've missed a thread like this :(

Some comments:

Firstly, as always, the threat to children from strangers is exaggerated, an abuser is much more likely to be a close family member/ friend/ trusted adult.

Secondly, there's more older straight guys out there pretending to be young boys (or girls) cruising for young girls than alleged "predatory gays".

Thirdly, as has been pointed out already, there is a definite element of parental responsibility. If your child said "It's 9pm I'm going to the local park to chat to anyone I meet there", any responsible parent would say "no way!", but they seem happy to let kids chat on the net without supervision, not realising it's a gateway to the whole world. They should either keep an eye on them or talk to them about what happens.

Fourthly, being gay doesn't mean you're automatically a paedophile or interested in "seducing" or "corrupting" young boys. Making prejudiced judgements like this says more about the speaker.

Finally: EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN! I keep saying this and maybe, someday, people will take notice. TELL them about sex, ALL of it, not just the bits that you "approve of", treat them as adults and they're more likely to be behave in an adult way.

If you lie to them or suppress information they need, they'll find out one way or another and their attitude is going to be "well if they don't trust me, why should I bother listening to them?"

Your choice.

:clap:

Very well said Graham - you've made some very pertinent points there. I particularly agree with the point regarding education - IMO, it's important that kids / teenagers are aware that the differences between people don't just relate to the way they look but can be psychological / sexual / whatever.

[kronas]

:clap:

Very well said Graham - you've made some very pertinent points there. I particularly agree with the point regarding education - IMO, it's important that kids / teenagers are aware that the differences between people don't just relate to the way they look but can be psychological / sexual / whatever.


the problem is its not up to the education system to do that, its the parents that should do it , but ultimately if the ignorance starts with the parents then there cannot be that sufficient education to teach young people about tolerance, diffarences in society.

i have seen how people react to others because of their looks, sexuality etc, from a young persons perspective its just plain ignorance.

[bbwannabe]

Since i dont have kids of me own, i will put myself into the same position as if i did. Because i have a friend who happens to prefer men i wouldnt have any problems with my son (or daughter) talking to them like over the net, but if some sort of decision was made to met up id be cautious. It wouldnt matter to me if they were straight or gay but the meeting up in realife is a dangerous concept for me, so id prob ok it if it was supervised by me. If it was my gay friend i wouldnt have any worries about him talking to my son as i will have known him for a long time rather than someone who i havent known for as long.

Hope that made sense.

[Escapee]

So I decide to have an evening off from forums and play some Shogun: Total War, and when I come back, I find I've missed a thread like this :(

Some comments:

Firstly, as always, the threat to children from strangers is exaggerated, an abuser is much more likely to be a close family member/ friend/ trusted adult.

Secondly, there's more older straight guys out there pretending to be young boys (or girls) cruising for young girls than alleged "predatory gays".

Thirdly, as has been pointed out already, there is a definite element of parental responsibility. If your child said "It's 9pm I'm going to the local park to chat to anyone I meet there", any responsible parent would say "no way!", but they seem happy to let kids chat on the net without supervision, not realising it's a gateway to the whole world. They should either keep an eye on them or talk to them about what happens.

Fourthly, being gay doesn't mean you're automatically a paedophile or interested in "seducing" or "corrupting" young boys. Making prejudiced judgements like this says more about the speaker.

Finally: EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN! I keep saying this and maybe, someday, people will take notice. TELL them about sex, ALL of it, not just the bits that you "approve of", treat them as adults and they're more likely to be behave in an adult way.

If you lie to them or suppress information they need, they'll find out one way or another and their attitude is going to be "well if they don't trust me, why should I bother listening to them?"

Your choice.

I agree!

Especially your first point, the majority of abusers are known to the family. family themselves, step fathers, family friends and the trusted adults. It appears that many would be abusers place themselves in contact with groups of children, unfortuately it has given many organisations a bad name/stigma attached. I,m sure we have all read stories about adults involved in Scouts, Cubs, Boys Clubs, Church groups and taking jobs in schools etc, just to surround themselves with opportunities.

It's a subject that I gave a lot of thought to earlier this year, when my nasty ex-girlfriend made a comment with absolutely no grounds to me about such a thing. She said I could be like that! I can only think she either said it to be nasty or thought it because I am not married and live on my own.
People who know me said "what rubbish" or 'you don't even like kids"

Do you think I'm right about them always surrounding themselves with children?

I understand that paedophiles generally have difficulty distinguishing between children and adults, they see children as small adults.
I have generally stayed away from these sort of discussions, because I always thought I didn't have any valid views because I have no children.

I must admit her disgusting remarks have made me more inclined to make my point on the matter.

Perverts should be castrated! :mad:

[greencreeper]

I understand that paedophiles generally have difficulty distinguishing between children and adults, they see children as small adults.
I have generally stayed away from these sort of discussions, because I always thought I didn't have any valid views because I have no children.

Another important point is that the sexuality of the offender has nothing to do with the gender of their victims. Many of the offenders who abuse boys are actually straight and many will themselves have been abused by a male friend or relative when younger.

[Escapee]

Another important point is that the sexuality of the offender has nothing to do with the gender of their victims. Many of the offenders who abuse boys are actually straight and many will themselves have been abused by a male friend or relative when younger.

Yes quite, I also understand that they have usually been victims themselves. I also undestand some Arab nations have a tendency for abusing boys, but they would never consider thos actions between adults.

Not trying to sidetrack here, and trying to keep things polite etc. The nasty ex-girlfriend touched me in a certain area of the body that I don't like, and when I tensed up she said "whats wrong were you abused as a child" add to that the time she curled up into a ball when I shouted, and I guess she was probably the one abused as a youngster and that could probably explain her nasty attack on me and the question that I thought to be very strange. :erm:

[Tazfan]

So Im not the only gay guy on here then?

[Russ]

So Im not the only gay guy on here then?

Heck no, sometimes there's so many around there's no room to breathe! :D

[Tazfan]

LOL @ Russ!

U still willin 2 shake my hand if I come to your church?

[Russ]

Depends on where that hand has been ;)

Come to my church, I'll even offer you a chair :)

[greencreeper]

So Im not the only gay guy on here then?
Depends on how you define "gay" :) Fair few straight queens on this forum ;) I'm gay <waves rainbow flag> as is dellwear. So that's three now. We're taking over :D

[Russ]

Fair few straight queens on this forum

Now you just KNOW you've got to name names! :D

[greencreeper]

Now you just KNOW you've got to name names! :D
Just keep an eye out for bitchy behaviour :D

[Stuart]

So I decide to have an evening off from forums and play some Shogun: Total War, and when I come back, I find I've missed a thread like this :(

Some comments:

<snip but agree with all>
Graham, I do agree with all of what you said. I also like the point about education.

I do think parents should take some responsibility with educating their kids, and should not allow their kids on the 'Net unsupervised (not only because of the possibility of being groomed, but mainly because of the content of some of the sites on the web).

As for whether I would have a problem with my child (assuming I had one) talking to an older adult on MSN, well, as long as that is supervised, I don't think I would have a problem.

[Tazfan]

Depends on how you define "gay" :) Fair few straight queens on this forum ;) I'm gay <waves rainbow flag> as is dellwear. So that's three now. We're taking over :D

Im waving the same flag as you buddy! (Hmm, thats a good idea for an emoticon actually!)

[Paul]

ok, this may be a stupid question, but what is a "straight queen" :confused:

[greencreeper]

ok, this may be a stupid question, but what is a "straight queen" :confused:
You must have either encountered or seen on TV a really camp gay guy who's very bitchy - lots of snide, cutting remarks? Well a straight queen is exactly the same - camp and bitchy but straight. Well at least that's what it means to me.

Once upon a time you could spot a gay bloke because he did something with his hair other than comb it. The raise of the "new man" and metrosexuality has made it a tough task. The lines are blurring :)

[etccarmageddon]

...Perverts should be castrated! :mad:

not all perverts can be castrated.

[Maggy]

not all perverts can be castrated.

And they would find a way around it.Peadophiles aren't necesarily into sex,they are in to power over the weak and vunerable.

[orangebird]

It's hardly as though being a single guy in your late 30s is a particularly uncommon thing though. Frankly, if she can come out with wonderful "logic" such as that you are probably best out of it. I find her justification that it is because you aren`t religious to be rather ironic, did you point her in the direction of any news articles concerning Catholic priests in American?

:notopic: I think it's a little scary that someone with that frame of mind actually has children..... :erm:

[Escapee]

It's hardly as though being a single guy in your late 30s is a particularly uncommon thing though. Frankly, if she can come out with wonderful "logic" such as that you are probably best out of it. I find her justification that it is because you aren`t religious to be rather ironic, did you point her in the direction of any news articles concerning Catholic priests in American?

I did better than simply pointing it out about priests, around that time there was a local lay preacher who was in court for interfering with young children under his supervision. He went to court and got sent to prison, it really annoyed her because she only considered bad things were done by those who didn't go to church, she even said the newspaper story was a fabrication! The lay preacher in question came in my local pub a few times, I told her this but she would not believe any of it. :rolleyes:

I never got to the bottom of why she came out with all that rubbish about me, I just wish I knew why. If someone had said something to make her think that I would want to know who it was.

I think there were many reasons, she wanted rid because her husband was coming to this country. (she said she was divorced) and I am fairly shure she was abused herself, but thats just my feelings form a few strange things she did and said.

She has apparently gone to Egypt or somewhere like that now on an all expenses paid church trip, it seems their church spend money on a select few to go and represent them around the world. I could never see her giving up the churc it was far too financially appealing to her. :rolleyes:

[Escapee]

:notopic: I think it's a little scary that someone with that frame of mind actually has children..... :erm:

Sorry to post again.

It really hit me for six when she said those things, and my friends actually laughed and said she must be mad.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I think she was mentally disturbed. When we broke up, she even said if her and her children were killed, I would be the first suspect. :Yikes:

I never made any threats of that sort, I was very emotional at the time and just didn't want things to split up. It took me a long time to realise but I now know she is a bit twisted. I bumped into her in Cardiff about 2 months ago and she had tears in her eyes and was apologising, I was with my new girlfriend who is very pretty IMO and she wispered in my ear "You can do better than her"

That just about sums her up I guess, bitter and twisted. I treid to understand her but even sane women are hard work. :D

[Stuart]

I did better than simply pointing it out about priests, around that time there was a local lay preacher who was in court for interfering with young children under his supervision. He went to court and got sent to prison, it really annoyed her because she only considered bad things were done by those who didn't go to church, she even said the newspaper story was a fabrication! The lay preacher in question came in my local pub a few times, I told her this but she would not believe any of it. :rolleyes:

I never got to the bottom of why she came out with all that rubbish about me, I just wish I knew why. If someone had said something to make her think that I would want to know who it was.

I think there were many reasons, she wanted rid because her husband was coming to this country. (she said she was divorced) and I am fairly shure she was abused herself, but thats just my feelings form a few strange things she did and said.

She has apparently gone to Egypt or somewhere like that now on an all expenses paid church trip, it seems their church spend money on a select few to go and represent them around the world. I could never see her giving up the churc it was far too financially appealing to her. :rolleyes:It sounds like she was (sorry to put this so bluntly) mad, or at least had some sort of mental disorder.

The nearest I have experienced to this is that one of my ex's used to leave her car in places were she knew I would notice it. That didn't bother me the first couple of times it happened, but then I started a new job (which I hadn't told her about) and she started to leave the car in certain places on my way to work.

This is despite the fact that she no longer lived in the area, and that the job I started was shift work, so there was no way she should have known when I was passing..

BTW, I knew it was her car. I knew the number plate. It also happened too often for it to be a coincidence (especially as she didn't have any friends or family living along the road I walked up to get to work, so was unlikely to be visiting anyone).

[daxx]

Depends on how you define "gay" :) Fair few straight queens on this forum ;) I'm gay <waves rainbow flag> as is dellwear. So that's three now. We're taking over :D

digs out tiara and brasso :)

[greencreeper]

digs out tiara and brasso :)
Straight queen or plain queen? :) Brasso on a tiara :shocked: Methinks silver polish would be better...

[Chimaera]

:notopic: Toothpaste is best for diamonds though! :D

[greencreeper]

:notopic: Toothpaste is best for diamonds though! :D
Really? I never knew that. Not that I'm likely to ever own a diamond other than on the end of a drill bit :D

[Chimaera]

Really? I never knew that. Not that I'm likely to ever own a diamond other than on the end of a drill bit :D
Me too!!! Best place for them anyway!
I was always told gin was good for cleaning diamonds but I think that's a waste of good alcohol. :Yikes:

[daxx]

:notopic: Toothpaste is best for diamonds though! :D
Was always told 'gin' but thats a waste unless its with a touch of lime and some soda
:notopic: just a plain queen :)

[greencreeper]

Was always told 'gin' but thats a waste unless its with a touch of lime and some soda
:notopic: just a plain queen :)
The fondness for gin is a giveaway ;)

We have another one! :D They're all coming out the woodwork now. It's odd - given that IT is a gay profession (well, there are a lot us and there's not much future in flower arranging anymore) I expected this forum to be awash but the members are largely all straight, married and "childrened". What happened?

[daxx]

:notopic: who knows perhaps as the (meaphorically speaking) ball is rolling, we might have a few more fall out of the closet :D

Back on topic: Some friends and neighbors of mine are foster parents, they know all 'about me' and yet they have no objection to me 'watching the kids' and yes I have been 'police checked' on several occasions, for this, my 'day job' and other instances where my job 'might' bring me into contact with kids or to lift a phrase from the application form, 'vulnerable members of the community'

[greencreeper]

Back on topic: Some friends and neighbors of mine are foster parents, they know all 'about me' and yet they have no objection to me 'watching the kids' and yes I have been 'police checked' on several occasions, for this, my 'day job' and other instances where my job 'might' bring me into contact with kids or to lift a phrase from the application form, 'vulnerable members of the community'

I wouldn't place myself in a position where I might be accused of doing things I'd not done, so I would never look after children. They're manipulative liers - you have to be really careful to stay on their good side otherwise it's false allegations and a permanent "pervert" label. Mud sticks.

[Tazfan]

I too would never put myself in a situation where anything "dodgy" could be read into it. I make sure sure I am never alone with anyone under the ag of 16. Its sad, cause I like kids, but its society thats done this. Its a sad state of affairs.