Working Time Directive

[Escapee]

I wonder if anyone has any experience of the Working Time Directive as introduced in 1999.

I have been searching for info and looked at the government sites amongst others, it seems that employees can work more than 48 hours by prior agreement. What I am wondering is can employees change their minds and decide not to work over 48 hours if thyey choose.

I wondered if changes to the working pattern and the job in general would be a get out clause, I also wonder if being pressured to sign and agree to work over 48 hours would be legally binding in a court of law?

If someone decided to leave a job because they are being forced to work over 48 hours per week, could they claim constructive dismissal?
There is lots of information when I search about opting out of Working Time directive, but none of it is concerned with opting out after you have been forced to opt in.

It's something I have been looking into today concerning some old collegues I mentioned in another thread, I was hoping someone may be able to shed some light on the subject.

[Chris W]

As far as i know, a company are not allowed to force you to opt in in the first place.

In my contract, i can sign the waiver to allow me to work over 48hours per week, but i can withdraw this by giving the company two weeks notice.

Check the details (or get your colleages to check) the contract details as it will be bound by the directive, so should be explained there in detail.

hope that is useful for starters :)

[Escapee]

As far as i know, a company are not allowed to force you to opt in in the first place.

In my contract, i can sign the waiver to allow me to work over 48hours per week, but i can withdraw this by giving the company two weeks notice.

Check the details (or get your colleages to check) the contract details as it will be bound by the directive, so should be explained there in detail.

hope that is useful for starters :)

That's the bit they were on about, the waiver!

We are talking about the same company, these guys work 40 hours and are also working 24/7 callout rota plus working a saturday rota. I think they are wondering if they can say no to call-outs if they have already worked 48 hours. It's also very confusing about the 11 hours off work for night workers, it's not clear if occassional night workers are subject to these rules. They have looked through the legal stuff and I have come to the same conclusion, there is no info on cancelling the waiver you sign at a later date.

I just thought someone around here may have been involved personally or know of others in similar circumstances.

[MetaWraith]

If I recall correctly the limit is not 48 hours a week, but rather an average of 48 hours a week over a 6 month period.

[poolking]

If I recall correctly the limit is not 48 hours a week, but rather an average of 48 hours a week over a 6 month period.
I thought that was a 2 week period?

[MovedGoalPosts]

Not sure exactly about the rules, a quick google suggested the following:

Even with the waiver signed by employee to exceed the 48 hour limit, the employer still has a duty to ensure the worker if fit for work. Thus there has to be adequate rest between work periods. Not quite sure what that minimum rest period must be.

The 48 hours is an average over a 17 week period. The 17 weeks is a rolling date, i.e. as you enter week 18 week 1 is discounted.

The waiver can be cancelled with one months notice. Since an employer cannot in law, to comply with the EU working time directive, force signing of the waiver, then they cannot gripe if the waiver is revoked. Note the directive requires managers and staff to assess the need for the excess hours to be worked. It might be acceptable to overcome a peak, but if that peak is due to a permanentworkload, or perhaps to cover mismanagement of resouces a waiver is inappropriate.

As for Escapee's sig suggesting employees are encouraged to exceed speed limits, etc: The employer cannot require any member of staff to break the law, otherwise the employer will be aiding and abetting the offence. Equally, if there were to be an accident in such circumstances, the Health & Safety Executive would be most displeased at the Employer's actions. If travel time is an issue, I would suggest anyone who is mobile simply call their base at the time of leaving one site, and ensure that call is logged (use a mobile phone if need be then the caller has the time and a printout could be obtained), and another call at time of arrival. It's for the employer to arrange appropriate schedules. It's also the employee's driving licence, and thus potentially livelihood at stake.

[Escapee]

Not sure exactly about the rules, a quick google suggested the following:

Even with the waiver signed by employee to exceed the 48 hour limit, the employer still has a duty to ensure the worker if fit for work. Thus there has to be adequate rest between work periods. Not quite sure what that minimum rest period must be.

The 48 hours is an average over a 17 week period. The 17 weeks is a rolling date, i.e. as you enter week 18 week 1 is discounted.

The waiver can be cancelled with one months notice. Since an employer cannot in law, to comply with the EU working time directive, force signing of the waiver, then they cannot gripe if the waiver is revoked. Note the directive requires managers and staff to assess the need for the excess hours to be worked. It might be acceptable to overcome a peak, but if that peak is due to a permanentworkload, or perhaps to cover mismanagement of resouces a waiver is inappropriate.

As for Escapee's sig suggesting employees are encouraged to exceed speed limits, etc: The employer cannot require any member of staff to break the law, otherwise the employer will be aiding and abetting the offence. Equally, if there were to be an accident in such circumstances, the Health & Safety Executive would be most displeased at the Employer's actions. If travel time is an issue, I would suggest anyone who is mobile simply call their base at the time of leaving one site, and ensure that call is logged (use a mobile phone if need be then the caller has the time and a printout could be obtained), and another call at time of arrival. It's for the employer to arrange appropriate schedules. It's also the employee's driving licence, and thus potentially livelihood at stake.

I will certainly pass on the bit about cancelling the waiver at one months notice, that was one of the things they were talking about. I did a bit of Google searching but couldn't find anything about cancelling the waiver.

Thanks all

[Scarlett]

I've had to look into this for my Wife before. The spirit of the law is that if you don'twant to do more than 48 hours a week then you don't have to but employers will find ways around it.

My wife had a contract that stated that she agreed that she opt out of the 48 hour a week limit. They could cancel in writing giving 3 months notice that they wanted to opt out.

What you need to remember is that provided the contract doesn't break the law, it stands (regardless of what you agreed to do). If it breaks the law then the contract does not count in that area at least.

Unfourtunatly, because the 2 options above are not actually against the law, the company was allowed to offer them as a legal contract. had the wife declined to sign it and insist on the 48 hour limit, it could have got interesting as the contract negotiations went on...

Basically when you start a new job, the company can put what they like in and if you object to anything, then they are perfectly well allowed to say that clause b is there to allow us to remain flexable with respect to staffing levels* and refuse to change it, but they must show that they have made the effort. They can then withdraw their offer stating that you could not come to an agreement on the terms and conditions.

Legally, they have not forced you to sign the contract but...

Scarlett.

*i.e. you work ever hour god sends and we don't have to hire someone else until you drop dead.