View Full Version : have you had religious experiances
if so then its not god as i have said all along :D
according to some scientific research certain so called 'incidents' maybe attributed to the way the individuals brain works in people who are susceptible to religious beliefs
apparently some patients were tested who had religious experiances and those that had a condition called temporal lobe epilepsy and those without
the scientist measured skin resistence in both sets of people and found a dramatic change in people who had the condition
"We found to our amazement that every time they looked at religious words like God, they'd get a huge galvanic skin response."
this was the first time evidence showed that there was significant activity in the temporal lobe that was linked to religious 'visions'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2865009.stm
(sigh) Here we go again.......
All these scientists have done IMO is find the ways through the brain that God uses to 'speak' to us....
Originally posted by Russ D
(sigh) Here we go again.......
All these scientists have done IMO is find the ways through the brain that God uses to 'speak' to us....
i find the evidence plausable also i did believe myself there was a susceptibility in people who believe in religion............
Originally posted by kronas
i find the evidence plausable also i did believe myself there was a susceptibility in people who believe in religion............
And you're entitled to believe that.
Thread closed now?
Originally posted by Russ D
And you're entitled to believe that.
Thread closed now?
why thread closed im waiting for people to respond if they want to just because your a mod and dont agree with me doesent mean you can just go around closing threads you dont agree with whos censoring now ?
Originally posted by kronas
why thread closed im waiting for people to respond if they want to just because your a mod and dont agree with me doesent mean you can just go around closing threads you dont agree with whos censoring now ?
If I was censoring this thread I would have just closed it!!
Originally posted by Russ D
If I was censoring this thread I would have just closed it!!
you offered to close it same thing really just politely doing it i think if this was your site you would do it regardless of what i said anyway enough of this.........
Originally posted by kronas
you offered to close it same thing really just politely doing it i think if this was your site you would do it regardless of what i said anyway enough of this.........
Thank you for being so judgemental!
As a mod I can close a thread if I deem it neccessary, I have been given the authority to do so. But I won't close this as it is a valid topic.
Now think of all the threads this site and the other has had on this subject. Have I ever closed them, even when it looks like I'm backed in to a corner?
Now let's get on with this IMO tedious subject....
Originally posted by Russ D
Thank you for being so judgemental!
np :p
Originally posted by Russ D
Now let's get on with this IMO tedious subject....
please lets do that includes anyone and i assure you russ my intentions are clearly to back my belief in religion.........
now as you know i believe in science not everything i hear/read etc but as i said it seems very plausable to me and the fact that i had the suspicion anyway that people with religious beliefs were easily susceptable already backs that up but it seems the temporal lobe is the key to these visions and experiances people talk about and it is infact this specific area of the brian which for some reason is responsible for the visions/experiances that people say they 'experianced'
So what about all the police officers, pilots, doctors, nurses etc who have had such experiences, do you consider them to be 'easily susceptable' too?
Do you consider me to be too?
Originally posted by Russ D
So what about all the police officers, pilots, doctors, nurses etc who have had such experiences, do you consider them to be 'easily susceptable' too?
Do you consider me to be too?
each individual is diffarent russ but i do think its linked to the brain i have seen how easy it is to 'brianwash' people who are under false religious pretenses
Originally posted by kronas
each individual is diffarent
So you're now saying that maybe some of these people aren't so easily influenced?
Originally posted by Russ D
So you're now saying that maybe some of these people aren't so easily influenced?
no im saying that some people have it in there blood so to speak from there parents etc and have it drilled in to them at an early age while others listen to the church and are the most susceptable ones teenagers/adults IMO
Originally posted by kronas
no im saying that some people have it in there blood so to speak from there parents etc and have it drilled in to them at an early age while others listen to the church and are the most susceptable ones teenagers/adults IMO
So you ARE saying I'm susceptable!!
So in your opinion nobody just walks in to a church and experiences God unless they are 'brainwashed' (to coin a phrase) or 'easily susceptable'?
How many Christians and 'religious people' do you know personally?
Originally posted by Russ D
So you ARE saying I'm susceptable!!
im saying there is the susceptable factor i believe so for people with religious beliefs
Originally posted by Russ D
So in your opinion nobody just walks in to a church and experiences God unless they are 'brainwashed' (to coin a phrase) or 'easily susceptable'?
no i used the brianwash thing as an example of why i think there is truth in this research
Originally posted by Russ D
How many Christians and 'religious people' do you know personally?
none but thats because none of my freinds are religious it wouldnt bother me if they were just as long as they didnt try and 'convert' me
here we go more controlling here so the vatican is trying to stop gay marriages
"homophobic crusade" by the Vatican
damn right :rolleyes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3108349.stm
I am sure that we discussed this exact topic on .com, at length. I think I supplied lots of medical studies and links about it at the time :dozey:
peterska2
31-07-2003, 16:32
Why have we got this going again?
I think 2000+ posts on .com pretty much exhausted it and if I remember correctly in the end everyone agreed to differ.
none but thats because none of my freinds are religious it wouldnt bother me if they were just as long as they didnt try and 'convert' me
So you're basing your beliefs on just one side of the argument without actually speaking to the people supposedly affected by it?
here we go more controlling here so the vatican is trying to stop gay marriages
Just for those who seem to get a little confused - the Pope, Vatican etc means little or nothing to Christians, for they are all connected to the Catholic faith.
And yes, I'm against gay marriages but perhaps not for the reasons featured in that link. I have nothing against the people and would never give a homosexual a hard time (poor choice of words??) over the way they are, I just feel for what marriage is indended for, homosexuality is inappropriate.
I think 2000+ posts on .com pretty much exhausted it and if I remember correctly in the end everyone agreed to differ
Yes but some people just love imposing their views on us... :D
forgive the :notopic: but what do you think of the vaticans stance Russ? whilst i acknowlege you are not a Roman Catholic, alot of your beliefs overlap, and they are deemed to be the leading christian faith. Are they wrong, or are christinas supposed to think "homosexual unions (are) immoral, unnatural and harmful.?
Its opinions like these that make meturn awayfrom religious faiths,as they prefer to take their commandments from public opinion defined a few hundered years ago, and not relate to the world as it is today?
If homosexuality is so wrong, then by the same right its fine for us to own slaves and stone people to death? i belive those sort of things were written at the same time? (im no theologan, so cant provide exact quotes)
*edit* ANYWAY.....this is the kindasubject that will go round and round in circles...im stepping away from it ;)
peterska2
31-07-2003, 16:41
For my views - see Russ - unless I contradict him and or put more info in on a bit.
Kronas
As someone interested in science, you may be interested in this site.
http://www.khouse.org/enews/2003-07-15.html
It is a site run by a Christian physicist who used to work as a military advisor to the US government. He has some interesting scientific explanations pertanant to Christianity.
The top of his site has the slogan "Bringing the world into focus through the lens of scripture."
If you study it, I think that you will begin to see the bible in a new light and see just how incredibly relavent it is today.....
Originally posted by Russ D
So you're basing your beliefs on just one side of the argument without actually speaking to the people supposedly affected by it?
no i have spoken to people about religion as well as watched various programs about it
Originally posted by Russ D
[B]
Just for those who seem to get a little confused - the Pope, Vatican etc means little or nothing to Christians, for they are all connected to the Catholic faith.
its still religion both seem a bit similar to me
Originally posted by Russ D
And yes, I'm against gay marriages but perhaps not for the reasons featured in that link. I have nothing against the people and would never give a homosexual a hard time (poor choice of words??) over the way they are, I just feel for what marriage is indended for, homosexuality is inappropriate.
well i can accept the fact that if 2 same sex people are happy and are willing to commit let them they are not harming anyone are they ?
Originally posted by Russ D
Yes but some people just love imposing their views on us... :D
;)
fresh evidence and all that :) :D
Hiya Mark :)
forgive the but what do you think of the vaticans stance Russ? whilst i acknowlege you are not a Roman Catholic, alot of your beliefs overlap, and they are deemed to be the leading christian faith. Are they wrong, or are christinas supposed to think "homosexual unions (are) immoral, unnatural and harmful.?
To a point I agree with them but the Vatican's opinions over the years on this has given the impression that gays are to be "CAST UNTO THE FIRE OF HELL FROM WENCE YOU CAME!!" This to me is hypocritical - taking the Bible's true view of gays means that their sexual practise is a sin, and we ALL sin (I'm sure even the Pope has his moments!). It should be noted that it is NOT homosexuality that is frowned upon - it's homosexual activity which is negated in the Bible.
Its opinions like these that make meturn awayfrom religious faiths,as they prefer to take their commandments from public opinion defined a few hundered years ago, and not relate to the world as it is today?
On the contrary - I feel the Bible is still relevant, only some wording needs to be updated.
If homosexuality is so wrong, then by the same right its fine for us to own slaves and stone people to death? i belive those sort of things were written at the same time? (im no theologan, so cant provide exact quotes)
Yes Levictus stated that gays should be stoned to death but that was Old Testament, and when Jesus arrived (New Testament) a lot of the old teachings were updated. Remember it was Big J who said 'Let he without sin cast the first stone'.
its still religion both seem a bit similar to me
If you actually did some research, you'd see how wrong you are.
well i can accept the fact that if 2 same sex people are happy and are willing to commit let them they are not harming anyone are they ?
What if it happens so much that kids growing up believe it's the norm?
peterska2
31-07-2003, 16:56
Originally posted by Mark W
forgive the :notopic: but what do you think of the vaticans stance Russ? whilst i acknowlege you are not a Roman Catholic, alot of your beliefs overlap, and they are deemed to be the leading christian faith.
There are major differences between the Prodestant faith and the Roman Catholic faith. Yes some of them do overlap but not all of them.
Are they wrong, or are christinas supposed to think "homosexual unions (are) immoral, unnatural and harmful.?
Homosexual unions are not natural as nature intended man to join with woman. However, saying that I am not pro- or anti- homosexual and as such say that everyone is entitled to their own sexual feelings as long as they do not go imposing them on other people.
Its opinions like these that make meturn awayfrom religious faiths,as they prefer to take their commandments from public opinion defined a few hundered years ago, and not relate to the world as it is today?
At my church we have a lot of people from younger generations and we have a lot of up-to-date cultures in place. Yes the Bible was wrote hundreds of years ago but many of the teachings are still valid and in the correct context today. Those that are not in the context that you are looking for are usually because of the changes in culture over the years and if you read up on it in more depth you can find out what it means and what the situation would be if it was transferred into todays culture. This then enables you to teach other people about it in a way and contaxt that they will understand.
If homosexuality is so wrong, then by the same right its fine for us to own slaves and stone people to death? i belive those sort of things were written at the same time? (im no theologan, so cant provide exact quotes)
Again in the time that this was written homosexuality was strictly forbidden. However, that was under Jewish law and Jesus came to teach that we should all love one another. Yes at this same time people has slaves and stoning was the norm but if they were to look at things like they are today in 2000 years or so then they will be saying 'What they put people in jail even if they were innocent and they had a problem with poverty?' Look at it like this. I would rather be a slave and have food and a roof over my head then be so poor that I cannot keep a home and have to beg for food. How many people have to do this these days?
*edit* ANYWAY.....this is the kindasubject that will go round and round in circles...im stepping away from it ;)
No this is the kind of subject that sparks interesting debate which I would rather have than the same old boring stuff all the time where you post a problem it is fixed and no-one speaks apart from that. It also gives a chance to let people share their opinions on a subject and then you can get to know them better.
In addition to my above post, far too many Christians show intolerance towards gays....and I'm as guilty as anyone.
Some of you may remember a thread I started on .com about gay marriages. My attitude was harsh, unfriendly and certainly not becoming of a christian.
None of us are any more perfect or sin-free than the next :)
peterska2
31-07-2003, 17:16
Originally posted by Russ D
In addition to my above post, far too many Christians show intolerance towards gays....and I'm as guilty as anyone.
Some of you may remember a thread I started on .com about gay marriages. My attitude was harsh, unfriendly and certainly not becoming of a christian.
None of us are any more perfect or sin-free than the next :)
Now don't you go worrying about it Russ.
In the spirit of Christian love I forgive you :)
I am usually a little too tolerent of gays if you ask me. I will always stand up for them and defend them if they are being treated unfairly.
The good thing about Christianity is that we know that we are perfect but as long as we ask for forgiveness for our wrongs we know that we cannot have these held against us for Jesus died on the cross to forgive our sins and so we are guarenteed forgiveness for them as long as we are truely repentant and seek forgiveness from God.
darkangel
31-07-2003, 17:20
Originally posted by peterska2
Now don't you go worrying about it Russ.
In the spirit of Christian love I forgive you :)
I am usually a little too tolerent of gays if you ask me. I will always stand up for them and defend them if they are being treated unfairly.
The good thing about Christianity is that we know that we are perfect but as long as we ask for forgiveness for our wrongs we know that we cannot have these held against us for Jesus died on the cross to forgive our sins and so we are guarenteed forgiveness for them as long as we are truely repentant and seek forgiveness from God. this is sarcasm right?
Originally posted by darkangel
this is sarcasm right?
Why would it be?
peterska2
31-07-2003, 17:21
Originally posted by darkangel
this is sarcasm right?
actually wrong
darkangel
31-07-2003, 17:37
Originally posted by peterska2
The good thing about Christianity is that we know that we are perfect but as long as we ask for forgiveness for our wrongs we know that we cannot have these held against us for Jesus died on the cross to forgive our sins and so we are guarenteed forgiveness for them as long as we are truely repentant and seek forgiveness from God. prime example to why religion is bull****, u can do whatever u want but as long as u say sorry to god it's ok and if u can't repent it away or drown in it in dogma it or the action isn't really Christian
Originally posted by Russ D
What if it happens so much that kids growing up believe it's the norm?
i doubt that there would be that many same sex unions to replace hetrosexual unions as the 'norm'.
I'm left feeling that what you really mean is 'right' or 'proper' instead of 'the norm'.
So WHAT if kids growing up thought it was the norm? surely the most important thing in a family is a loving enviroment? or is the fear that gay/lesbian parents will brainwash their children to follow their sexual orientation - and even if they DID, that would be no different from some hetrosexual parents turning thier backs on their children when they 'come out of the closet' would it?
It should be noted that it is NOT homosexuality that is frowned upon - it's homosexual activity which is negated in the Bible.
:confused: i dont understand - its ok to BE gay, just dont act it? that puts homosexuality on the same level as a CRIME does it not? - its ok to think about bricking your neighbours window - just dont do it?
Homosexual unions are not natural as nature intended...
not natural as nature intended?? why do people always turn to that old chestnut when talking baout homosexuality??
nor are life saving operations, blood transfusions, trans atlantic flights, space travel etc i dont see anyone (well, ok a few people do) crying out againsed them??
as long as they do not go imposing them (their views) on other people
ahhhh....so homosexuals cant go imposing their views on sexual orientation on anyone, but its ok if its the church? beacause, make no mistake about it, thats EXACTLY what they are doing .....
I am usually a little too tolerent of gays if you ask me
:confused: :confused:
timewarrior2001
31-07-2003, 17:38
I dont beleive in religion.
I dont deny that jesus ever existed, he almost certainly did. As for his claims well......It just makes me think of David Icke and a few others. Yes his views and teachings changed the world, but the religious fighting that sprouted up from it probably means it may have done more harm than good.
Yes I have to point out that old nugget religious wars. It seems that every war has its heart seated in religion at some level, even if it is an extremist faction. Its still there.
I feel that if there was a god that he would have made himself known by now, especially when you look at the history of the 20th Century, how many people must have asked "why god?" Did he answer, maybe to them, probably not to anyone.
Did he allow the holocaust because the jews killed his son? The jews believe they are hated because of this.
Lets face it if mankind ever needed proof of God it is now. Sadly for some that are way to involved in it all they will, in my view, be very dissapointed.
Just my thoughts
Peace to all
I tolerate all religions as long as they dont try to make me see things their way.
Each to their own I say
prime example to why religion is bull****, u can do whatever u want but as long as u say sorry to god it's ok and if u can't repent it away or drown in it in dogma it or the action isn't really Christian
And that's a prime example of complete and utter ignorance.
Is there any reason for you to get offensive? Oh let me guess, you weren't being offensive, "just expressing your views"...:rolleyes:
i doubt that there would be that many same sex unions to replace hetrosexual unions as the 'norm'.
I'm left feeling that what you really mean is 'right' or 'proper' instead of 'the norm'.
So WHAT if kids growing up thought it was the norm? surely the most important thing in a family is a loving enviroment? or is the fear that gay/lesbian parents will brainwash their children to follow their sexual orientation - and even if they DID, that would be no different from some hetrosexual parents turning thier backs on their children when they 'come out of the closet' would it?
if I'm to be considered 'stuck in my ways' over anything, it's that children should have a mother and a father. I point-blank refuse to back down from that stance, now and in the future.
I don't doubt that gays have a lot of love to give, but what about a child from a same-sex "union" (I hate that word) in school? Think of the flack from fellow pupils.
i dont understand - its ok to BE gay, just dont act it? that puts homosexuality on the same level as a CRIME does it not? - its ok to think about bricking your neighbours window - just dont do it?
From an odd pojnt of view, you're not far from it. If I may be crude for a moment, it's such activity as gay sex which I find deplorable and is discouraged in the Bible. It's one thing to have urges (we all have sexual urges) but it's another matter to act on them.
Yes I have to point out that old nugget religious wars. It seems that every war has its heart seated in religion at some level, even if it is an extremist faction. Its still there.
How many more times are apparently intelligent people going to come out with that worn-out piece of rubbish??? Religion does not cause wars and never has done. People have indeed USED it as an excuse to fight. It's like saying football causes fighting just because of the hooligan element.
I feel that if there was a god that he would have made himself known by now, especially when you look at the history of the 20th Century, how many people must have asked "why god?" Did he answer, maybe to them, probably not to anyone.
He will make himself known when He's good and ready. This is HIS planet, not ours. We're just tenants.
Lets face it if mankind ever needed proof of God it is now
From that comment I assume that you (along with many others on this forum) have not properly researched Christianity and what it's about....
(/has images of people quickly flipping through google for some information...... ;) :D)
timewarrior2001
31-07-2003, 18:24
Originally posted by Russ D
[B
How many more times are apparently intelligent people going to come out with that worn-out piece of rubbish??? Religion does not cause wars and never has done. People have indeed USED it as an excuse to fight. It's like saying football causes fighting just because of the hooligan element.
Ok maybe i didnt make it clear, what I was saying is that Religion has been used as an excuse for war. If you dig deep enough into the relevant beliefs and history of the key players I am sure some form of religious misgiudance is there. And if look at some wars, usually say between the seiks and the hindus, the muslims and the christians, then religion is definately the cause of these wars.
he will make himself known when He's good and ready. This is HIS planet, not ours. We're just tenants.
Oh? well seeing as I dont beleive in him I dont have to pay rent
From that comment I assume that you (along with many others on this forum) have not properly researched Christianity and what it's about....
Its odd, but I dont see why I would waste my time researching something that offers me no comfort, something I dont believe in (and believe me I have tried, I used to go to church and I used to get stick for it) something that can inflict such pain on others, as in the church's views on homosexuality.
I agree with your views on same sex couples adopting children, yes fine they may be happy, but the kids are going to be tortured by the school bullies.
At the end of the day Russ, the one thing we all are is Human, and I certainly wont judge people on the basis of their chosen religion.
darkangel
31-07-2003, 18:27
russ:what denomination are u exactly?
Ok maybe i didnt make it clear, what I was saying is that Religion has been used as an excuse for war. If you dig deep enough into the relevant beliefs and history of the key players I am sure some form of religious misgiudance is there. And if look at some wars, usually say between the seiks and the hindus, the muslims and the christians, then religion is definately the cause of these wars.
Ok then, so would I be justified in saying football causes fighting and is at the root of just about every brawl?
Oh? well seeing as I dont beleive in him I dont have to pay rent
That's your choice! I've never said you have to believe :)
Its odd, but I dont see why I would waste my time researching something that offers me no comfort, something I dont believe in
Agreed but then again without researching the subject it's hard for a valid discussion to continue if you are not fully aware of what you are agruing/discussing against.
something that can inflict such pain on others, as in the church's views on homosexuality.
ANYONE inflicting pain on others is not following Christ's teachings.
At the end of the day Russ, the one thing we all are is Human, and I certainly wont judge people on the basis of their chosen religion.
And neither would I! At last something we agree on :)
russ:what denomination are u exactly?
Pentecostal Christian, although I was Catholic until I was 18, nothing something I'm too happy with.
peterska2
31-07-2003, 18:31
If we are talking denominations then I will say that I am Salvation Army
I must have missed this thread on .com a while back I guess.:confused:
I find god impossible to believe in, but this is just a personal view. And I will use the same old arguments as always, why d so many have to suffer it the big man could sort it all out.
Some guy on another forum told me "god is for people that can't accept that life is just this".
Originally posted by imback
I must have missed this thread on .com a while back I guess.:confused:
I find god impossible to believe in, but this is just a personal view. And I will use the same old arguments as always, why d so many have to suffer it the big man could sort it all out.
Ok this is going to be a VERY quick recap, but basically because Adam and Eve couldn't behave themselves, sin was allowed to stay in the world.
Lucifer (an angel at the time) was impressed with what God created and wanted some of it for himself and rebelled against Him. God then allowed Lucifer limited power on earth with the provision that if someone turned their back on the evil one and gave their life to Big G, Lucifer would never have their soul.
As a result Lucifer/Satan and his 'boys' are out to cause sin, pain and mayhem wherever possible.
Sorry for the rough draft but it's just too long a story to explain it all!
Originally posted by Russ D
<snip>
Thanks for filling me in Russ :)
But still this must mean god is vengfull? To watch young children die hideous deaths, no matter if they are "going to better place".
I feel people who realy are believer, not just the ones that go to church once a year, they must very strong and dedcated people. I man it is al about fait, you are being asked to dedicate you who life to somehting you have never seen.
timewarrior2001
31-07-2003, 18:49
Russ, I have a question thats to do with Religious Education.
I have recently turned 27, no significance here, but it helps to set that I was in senior school from 1987 to 1992.
We were made to study RE between 1st and 3rd year. Even if we had been muslim we would have had to learn all about christianity.....which seems wrong to me somehow, I dont remember learning about other religions, and I'll confess mostly RE was a chance to get my head down for a quick hours nap......or annoy the teacher by claiming I worshipped satan (well I was a known metalhead in the school lol)
But in this day in age, russ, do you think as a religious person that religion should be forcefully taught in schools, or do you think it would be better to offer it to those who want to choose it?
Either way it would teach about all religion.
Originally posted by imback
Thanks for filling me in Russ :)
But still this must mean god is vengfull? To watch young children die hideous deaths, no matter if they are "going to better place".
I feel people who realy are believer, not just the ones that go to church once a year, they must very strong and dedcated people. I man it is al about fait, you are being asked to dedicate you who life to somehting you have never seen.
At last!! Someone who knows a bit!!!
Yes God is a vengfull god but only against those who constantly sin. As for hideous deaths, my opinion (and this is exactly that: my opinion, this is not neccessarily that of each Christian) is that whatever day they died, that was always marked as their 'death-day'. God had chosen that day for when they would pass on. Now the route in which they took to death is down to many factors.
For example they might die in a road accident, in which case it could be painless. They could die horrible deaths such as the Soham murders, in which case it would have been one man's (plus a woman?) actions inspired by the evil one. Had the killer not listened to Lucifer that day then I'm sure the 2 girls would have dies another way, again maybe a car accident or similar.
I'm not too good at theological explanations, I hope that made sense :erm:
Russ, I have a question thats to do with Religious Education.
I have recently turned 27, no significance here, but it helps to set that I was in senior school from 1987 to 1992.
We were made to study RE between 1st and 3rd year. Even if we had been muslim we would have had to learn all about christianity.....which seems wrong to me somehow, I dont remember learning about other religions, and I'll confess mostly RE was a chance to get my head down for a quick hours nap......or annoy the teacher by claiming I worshipped satan (well I was a known metalhead in the school lol)
But in this day in age, russ, do you think as a religious person that religion should be forcefully taught in schools, or do you think it would be better to offer it to those who want to choose it?
Either way it would teach about all religion.
I certainly do believe children should be taught about all religions, if anything it will teach tolerance and harmony as well as understanding. It should then be down to the parents to guide their children towards which (if any) religion would be best suited. I certainly want my daughter to learn about other faiths, but as parents we want what we think is the best for them, I will encourage her to follow Christianity.
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
Russ, I have a question thats to do with Religious Education.
I have recently turned 27, no significance here, but it helps to set that I was in senior school from 1987 to 1992.
We were made to study RE between 1st and 3rd year. Even if we had been muslim we would have had to learn all about christianity.....which seems wrong to me somehow, I dont remember learning about other religions, and I'll confess mostly RE was a chance to get my head down for a quick hours nap......or annoy the teacher by claiming I worshipped satan (well I was a known metalhead in the school lol)
But in this day in age, russ, do you think as a religious person that religion should be forcefully taught in schools, or do you think it would be better to offer it to those who want to choose it?
Either way it would teach about all religion. I think that as a pupil in the UK you were quite rightly tought about cristianity (as was I). Goes with the territory.
timewarrior2001
31-07-2003, 18:56
Originally posted by Ramrod
I think that as a pupil in the UK you were quite rightly tought about cristianity (as was I). Goes with the territory.
yes but also in the UK we have choice of religion. What about all the children born here that have say muslim or jewish parents?
Originally posted by Russ D
At last!! Someone who knows a bit!!!
Thanks for the reply Russ as I know everyone is looking at you for a reply in this kind of tread.
I was thinking of Famin and things like that, or small children born with aids, that kind of thing, long slow deaths of children that are not old enough to have sinned.
timewarrior2001
31-07-2003, 19:00
You know, something has just occured to me......
I dont believe in religion, yet, I believe in ghosts......surely that means an afterlife and that means a heaven?
Man I think I need help lol
Originally posted by imback
I was thinking of Famin and things like that, or small children born with aids, that kind of thing, long slow deaths of children that are not old enough to have sinned.
It's nothing to do with the fact they may or may not be old enough to sin, it's due to the fact that Adam and Eve disobeyed Big G, so their ancestors (ie, us) suffer for it.
Diseases and suchlike are believed to be creations of Satan. As for AIDS, it was suggested the explosion of infected people in the early 80s was mainly due to promiscuous homosexual behaviour, so you may be able to see where Christians make that connection.
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
You know, something has just occured to me......
I dont believe in religion, yet, I believe in ghosts......surely that means an afterlife and that means a heaven?
Not really jus means there is another "life" or world after this, doesn't mean it's heaven or hell :) Or would us people that believe in ghosts et the same results in te test in Kronas post?
Originally posted by Russ D
<snip>
But this where my problem lies in it all, god is quiet happy to let "his children" suffer and die on earth, and can go to heaven if they repent their sins. Why would I worship anyon or anything that is, by most peoples standards, being cruel?
I mena I may as welll worship the devil as adleast then I'd get to enjoy lifes little good points too.
NOTE : I do no tactually worship the devil :p
Originally posted by imback
But this where my problem lies in it all, god is quiet happy to let "his children" suffer and die on earth, and can go to heaven if they repent their sins. Why would I worship anyon or anything that is, by most peoples standards, being cruel?
It might appear that He's being cruel, but He gave His son to die so that we would be 'saved', which I'd say is a pretty good thing to do. Our ancestors' constant sinning has meant that evil and sin will always be around us and spiritual death awaits everyone (God dictated that those who do wrong face death. Once he has spoken it, it cannot be undone so he sent Jesus to die in our place). the fact that he gave us a 'get out of jail' card indicated his patience and love for a human race who by and large, do a lot of evil things.
I mena I may as welll worship the devil as adleast then I'd get to enjoy lifes little good points too.
NOTE : I do no tactually worship the devil :p
Yes indeed you could spend this short lifetime bowing before satan but think of the inescapable hell you'd be spending eternity it, with no chance of parole. God will have given you numerous opportunites to turn to Him but your constant failure would be your undoing.
Where's Towny when you need him??? :D
But is god not jut as cruel as anything else we know, to punish us for what others have done? It seems to be situation where you are gilty until you repent, even if you personally have never done anything to be guilty of.
peterska2
31-07-2003, 19:47
I dont know where towny is Russ but I'll be online proper later
Originally posted by imback
But is god not jut as cruel as anything else we know, to punish us for what others have done? It seems to be situation where you are gilty until you repent, even if you personally have never done anything to be guilty of.
I see where you're going but we are ALL guilty of breaking His laws - there are no sinless people. As I said earlier, even someone as 'holy' as the Pope sins, and I'm sure Mother Theresa was prone to the odd PMT-fuelled outburst from time to time :D ;)
Originally posted by Russ D
I'm sure Mother Theresa was prone to the odd PMT-fuelled outburst from time to time :D ;)
:p :D
So how have we all sinned then, what are "his" laws? I don't mean to seem stupid but have kind of avoided that kind of thing for many years now.
and also what of all other religons? People may have devoted their life to budha and lived a selfless life but according to the bible would they too not be sinners?
Maybe If God cared to tell us what actually happens after we die, I might worship him!..
Seriousley though, im not spending my time worshipping someone, when as far as I can see, im not gonna gain anything from it. Sorry for being shallow ;)
Originally posted by Russ D
What if it happens so much that kids growing up believe it's the norm?
i dont think that will happen also school plays its part in educating children so i dont see the problem there
also looking through all the posts while i was away and thinking about it why 'update' the bible so to speak did god give you the choice of 'tweaking' it
if you can sin and be forgiven why not just continue sinning
also i do believe homosexuals should be given marriage rights
peterska2
31-07-2003, 20:22
Originally posted by kronas
also looking through all the posts while i was away and thinking about it why 'update' the bible so to speak did god give you the choice of 'tweaking' it
This is forbidden. It says so in Revelations 22 v 18-19.
So why are there so many differing variations of the bible in circulation??
If a book which was written at least 400 years after the subject matter (IE Jesus's life) how can we be sure it is based on fact and not Myths?
Originally posted by TheBig1
So why are there so many differing variations of the bible in circulation??
If a book which was written at least 400 years after the subject matter (IE Jesus's life) how can we be sure it is based on fact and not Myths?
its based on a belief system :rolleyes:
But why would anyone believe in something they cannot see or touch
Originally posted by TheBig1
But why would anyone believe in something they cannot see or touch
good question anyone whos religious gonna answer that ?
IMO its all BS id rather believe in something which has fact/substance
Originally posted by kronas
IMO its all BS id rather believe in something which has fact/substance Thats not a belief then....it's the bleedin obvious:D
So how have we all sinned then, what are "his" laws? I don't mean to seem stupid but have kind of avoided that kind of thing for many years now.
Never heard of the 10 Commandments?? :D
and also what of all other religons? People may have devoted their life to budha and lived a selfless life but according to the bible would they too not be sinners?
Yes they would, God makes it clear to people who/what we believe is correct.
Maybe If God cared to tell us what actually happens after we die, I might worship him!..
Seriousley though, im not spending my time worshipping someone, when as far as I can see, im not gonna gain anything from it. Sorry for being shallow
No problem, that's between you and Him.
So why are there so many differing variations of the bible in circulation??
The original Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was in Greek, so the different 'versions' relate to the translations.
If a book which was written at least 400 years after the subject matter (IE Jesus's life) how can we be sure it is based on fact and not Myths?
Because a lot of what was written in scriptures was corroborated in other journals, such as Caesar's diaries. Jesus is mentioned in those too.
But why would anyone believe in something they cannot see or touch
As Kronas says, it's based on faith. What helps is that God will communicate with you in His own way. He has already done so with me about my daughter.
IMO its all BS id rather believe in something which has fact/substance
That too is between you and God, but please, don't refer to someone else's beliefs as BS. Is there any need to be offensive?
Originally posted by Russ D
That too is between you and God, but please, don't refer to someone else's beliefs as BS. Is there any need to be offensive?
i said its my opinion in my mind it is BS i will state what i think whether it offends someone or not after all its MY opinion
Originally posted by kronas
i said its my opinion in my mind it is i will state what i think whether it offends someone or not after all it MY opinion
Yes but using such expressions as "BS" can be seen as offensive. This site is relaxed but using wording like that is still not good form.
Originally posted by Russ D
Never heard of the 10 Commandments?? :D
But this then begs the question how would a new born child have not followed the commandments when they do not know what they are;) I know you say they are paying for the sins of others but some how seems very cruel, when you consider how many "bad" people do well in this world.
Originally posted by Russ D
Yes but using such expressions as "BS" can be seen as offensive. This site is relaxed but using wording like that is still not good form.
as long as its within forum gudielines i see no problem are we restricted by our opinions here were not free to express them ? im not breaking any rules am i NO
But this then begs the question how would a new born child have not followed the commandments when they do not know what they are I know you say they are paying for the sins of others but some how seems very cruel, when you consider how many "bad" people do well in this world.
They might do bad in THIS world, but not the next. We don't just have an existence in this dimension.
as long as its within forum gudielines i see no problem are we restricted by our opinions here were not free to express them ? im not breaking any rules am i NO
Put it this way - you won't be continuing referring to anyone's religious beliefs as "BS".
Originally posted by Russ D
Put it this way - you won't be continuing referring to anyone's religious beliefs as "BS".
on anything i deem BS yep
Originally posted by Russ D
They might do bad in THIS world, but not the next. We don't just have an existence in this dimension.
I'm sorry to keep going on about this Russ but I find the difference in thinking between me and you very intersting. :)
Ok so you have said the bad wil/may get punished in the next life, but what about the innocent children that have had no life in this world, and what's more died in horrible ways?
Originally posted by imback
I'm sorry to keep going on theRuss but I find difference in thinking between me and you very intersting. :)
Ok so you have said the bad wil/may get punished in the next life, but what about the innocent children that have had no life in this world, and what's more died in horrible ways?
When you say 'no life', what sort of age do you mean?
Originally posted by Russ D
When you say 'no life', what sort of age do you mean?
I'm talking weeks or evendays old, or children in Africa under the age of 5 looking on the ground for food or drinking disease ridden water.
If my child was taken away from me I could never accept that it was "the grand scheme of things".
Originally posted by Andre
But it's not your website to do with what you want, and behave how you want.
If you want to go around offending people no matter what, I suggest you go the the trouble of setting up your own website and doing it.
We are very relaxed here, but we have guidelines and we ask people to respect that.
Thank you.
i am under the guidelines when did i say i wouldnt respect them :confused:
im just expressing my opinion but it seems to me your restricting this just because its religion ?
its not a cheap 'pop' because its religion its my opinion of what i think on a subject not everyone agrees with it
please point to where i have gone past the 'line' in your guidelines :)
Originally posted by imback
I'm talking weeks or evendays old, or children in Africa under the age of 5 looking on the ground for food or drinking disease ridden water.
If my child was taken away from me I could never accept that it was "the grand scheme of things".
OK, you'd need to look at the circumstances of how that child came to be where it was. In your example in Africa it's due to weather conditions. Satan was given limited power over the weather so he'd be involved in that, plus the 'alleged' corruption in those areas which lead people to spend government money elsewhere rather than on looking after it's people.
Governments would rather spend millions on weapons than feed it's own children, again this status quo would be of Lucifer.
Originally posted by kronas
i am under the guidelines when did i say i wouldnt respect them :confused:
im just expressing my opinion but it seems to me your restricting this just because its religion ?
its not a cheap 'pop' because its religion its my opinion of what i think on a subject not everyone agrees with it
please point to where i have gone past the 'line' in your guidelines :)
You are free to disagree with ANYONE on this site but it's your choice of wording which is inappropriate. It's nothing to do with the subject matter, it's the way you have chosen to use the offensive expression 'BS' rather than a more mature example of "I just don't believe in all that".
Originally posted by Russ D
Governments would rather spend millions on weapons than feed it's own children, again this status quo would be of Lucifer.
See but again then just looks tome like God being cruel and punishing people to frighten others in belief. I could not worship something so vengfull, or ful of hate.
Originally posted by Russ D
You are free to disagree with ANYONE on this site but it's your choice of wording which is inappropriate. It's nothing to do with the subject matter, it's the way you have chosen to use the offensive expression 'BS' rather than a more mature example of "I just don't believe in all that".
ok but at the time its how i felt still do id rather not use the same words over and over again it would get bit repetative right so i express myself in diffarent ways
case closed sorry for the off topic mods
Originally posted by imback
See but again then just looks tome like God being cruel and punishing people to frighten others in belief. I could not worship something so vengfull, or ful of hate.
You're missing the point. The people who could be spending the money on their children have the opportunity to do so by God. But under the rules of 'free will', satan can step in and tempt them as much as he wants. Again under 'free will' they choose to listen to the evil one.
Originally posted by Russ D
OK, you'd need to look at the circumstances of how that child came to be where it was. In your example in Africa it's due to weather conditions. Satan was given limited power over the weather so he'd be involved in that, plus the 'alleged' corruption in those areas which lead people to spend government money elsewhere rather than on looking after it's people.
Governments would rather spend millions on weapons than feed it's own children, again this status quo would be of Lucifer.
ok so why doesent god stop all the corruption hunger slaughter of inoccent lives is he testing 'them' will bring them back in a another life/form they were destined to have it happen ?
Originally posted by kronas
ok but at the time its how i felt still do id rather not use the same words over and over again it would get bit repetative right so i express myself in diffarent ways
case closed sorry for the off topic mods
There are times when I'd like to use certain words to describe certain users of this forum but out of politeness and desire to stick to forum rules, I choose not to.
Let's see you do the same please.
quote:
Maybe If God cared to tell us what actually happens after we die, I might worship him!..
Seriousley though, im not spending my time worshipping someone, when as far as I can see, im not gonna gain anything from it. Sorry for being shallow
No problem, that's between you and Him. I'm not religious but that is a good answer
:D
Originally posted by kronas
ok so why doesent god stop all the corruption hunger slaughter of inoccent lives is he testing 'them' will bring them back in a another life/form they were destined to have it happen ?
It's because the people who are causing the 'corruption hunger slaughter' are preferring to listen to satan rather than God.
I'm not religious but that is a good answer
I thank you :D
Originally posted by Russ D
You're missing the point. The people who could be spending the money on their children have the opportunity to do so by God. But under the rules of 'free will', satan can step in and tempt them as much as he wants. Again under 'free will' they choose to listen to the evil one.
But to teach us a lesson it is OK to let others suffer even though they have no power to make a difference? Seems cruel to me. Why not let the "bad" ones have the life of hell.
Originally posted by imback
But to teach us a lesson it is OK to let others suffer even though they have no power to make a difference? Seems cruel to me. Why not let the "bad" ones have the life of hell.
What's not to say that the ones who suffered had a life of immeasurable happiness and love afterwards? And the 'bad' ones will have more than a life of hell - they'll have an eternity of it.
Originally posted by Russ D
It's because the people who are causing the 'corruption hunger slaughter' are preferring to listen to satan rather than God.
but why arent the innocent people being saved by god ?
Originally posted by kronas
but why arent the innocent people being saved by god ?
Who's to say that their life on earth isn't just a small fraction of their entire existence? Maybe by taking them away from this sinful earth He IS saving them?
Originally posted by TheBig1
But why would anyone believe in something they cannot see or touch
You cannot see and touch some gases. Doesn't mean they don't exist.
As Kronas (I think) says, those people that follow religion are happy to have faith that God exists (in whatever form).
However, because I have posted this, it doesn't mean I believe in any sort of definable god.
I also believe that because I don't neccessarily believe in a God, it doesn't automatically follow that other people shouldn't as well. Not believing in God is right for me. It is not right for everyone..
Everyone is free to follow their own beliefs.
Originally posted by scastle
Everyone is free to follow their own beliefs.
Amen bruvvah!!!
Originally posted by scastle
Everyone is free to follow their own beliefs.
yep i agree but everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be allowed to express it...........
Originally posted by Russ D
Who's to say that their life on earth isn't just a small fraction of their entire existence? Maybe by taking them away from this sinful earth He IS saving them?
but what about the individual who wants peace and a normal life on earth dont they get a say ?
Originally posted by kronas
yep i agree but everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be allowed to express it...........
So are you saying that if someone came on here and started making offensive and obscene remarks about your mother, they should be allowed to say it "because it's their opinion"??
but what about the individual who wants peace and a normal life on earth dont they get a say ?
If that is God's plan then that's what they get, but remember that this isn't OUR life - it's God's. We don't OWN this life.
Originally posted by Russ D
So are you saying that if someone came on here and started making offensive and obscene remarks about your mother, they should be allowed to say it "because it's their opinion"??
i think you have misunderstood russ i never insulted anyone i just disagreed with something someone said and found there evidence BS IMO
Originally posted by Russ D
If that is God's plan then that's what they get, but remember that this isn't OUR life - it's God's. We don't OWN this life.
hold it there russ this is MY life and i can guide it to where i want if i work hard enough its about self control
i think you have misunderstood russ i never insulted anyone i just disagreed with something someone said and found there evidence BS IMO
Just accept that writing off someone's beliefs as "BS" IS insulting. And I have never produced ANY evidence regarding christianity because I don't need to.
hold it there russ this is MY life and i can guide it to where i want if i work hard enough its about self control
So it's your life is it? You are able to decide what mood you'll be in tomorrow, You decide who you meet tomorrow, You decide what weather you'll have tomorrow, You decide exactly what you'll be doing 10 years from right now, You control exactly what happens to you every day for the rest of your life? You controlled what day you were born on?
Originally posted by Russ D
Just accept that writing off someone's beliefs as "BS" IS insulting. And I have never produced ANY evidence regarding christianity because I don't need to.
ok if it is then it is as i said before id say it in any other circumstance maybe in a diffarent way...............
Originally posted by Russ D
So it's your life is it? You are able to decide what mood you'll be in tomorrow, You decide who you meet tomorrow, You decide what weather you'll have tomorrow, You decide exactly what you'll be doing 10 years from right now, You control exactly what happens to you every day for the rest of your life? You controlled what day you were born on?
i could decide what mood im in by doing something to cheer myself up if need be
i could organize a meeting with someone or bump in to them
the weather thing is silly russ i never said that :)
as for the rest i couldnt control when i was born but i can control how sucessful i can become and my health and well being as long as i do the right thing
thats what i meant russ
No, you cannot control how successful you are. If you have such control over your life, I challenge you to bag £10 million on this week's lottery.
You do that and I'll think about agreeing with you.
And as for your health.....just keep in mind that footballer, what was his name, Foe?
Originally posted by Russ D
No, you cannot control how successful you are. If you have such control over your life, I challenge you to bag £10 million on this week's lottery.
You do that and I'll think about agreeing with you.
i was talking about a career path russ not silly stuff like the above you just said
if your intelligent and get a good job and are regonized as a valuble asset for a company you will get rewarded depending on the job/company :)
darkangel
01-08-2003, 00:17
Originally posted by Russ D
Just accept that writing off someone's beliefs as "BS" IS insulting. And I have never produced ANY evidence regarding christianity because I don't need to. don't want to butt in between this one but does anyone else find what kronas has said offensive, I'm not sure he refered to your beliefs as BS but those beliefs in general?
Originally posted by kronas
i was talking about a career path russ not silly stuff like the above you just said
if your intelligent and get a good job and are regonized as a valuble asset for a company you will get rewarded depending on the job/company :)
Uh uh, you said you are in control of your life so if that's true then all the above would be possible for you.
I'm sure if you were in control of your life then I'm sure Ms Lavigne would be propped up in your bed waiting for you tonight :D
And as for being intelligent and being an asset to your company....just ask the people in NTL if that makes any difference :)
I'm not sure he refered to your beliefs as BS but those beliefs in general?
One and the same thing dude.
darkangel
01-08-2003, 00:25
Originally posted by Russ D
One and the same thing dude. in your opinion.
If i say i find your religion offensive(not that i really care less) would you stop mentioning it?
edit:- or if say i subscribed to this crap ADMIN EDIT - inappropriate link removed
WHY HAS THAT LINK BEEN REMOVED
Originally posted by Russ D
Uh uh, you said you are in control of your life so if that's truem then all the above would be possible for you.
no i meant within reason not the type of stuff you are referring to
Originally posted by Russ D
I'm sure if you were in control of your life then I'm sure Ms Lavigne would be propped up in your bed waiting for you tonight :D
ok now that was a lowblow russ :D
if i knew her or lived near her i would go over and......... you get the picture
maybe if i was rich i would go and find her and tell her...........
you know the rest again
Originally posted by Russ D
And as for being intelligent and being an asset to your company....just ask the people in NTL if that makes any difference :)
i did say job/company dependent and MS are a prime example of a company who do that
If i say i find your religion offensive(not that i really care less) would you stop mentioning it?
If you could give me a valid reason why it's offensive then I'd consider it.
no i meant within reason not the type of stuff you are referring to
Within reason? But wait, I thought YOU were in control of your life....if you're in control then there can be no 'within reason'....
ok now that was a lowblow russ
if i knew her or lived near her i would go over and......... you get the picture
maybe if i was rich i would go and find her and tell her...........
you know the rest again
Again wait...if you were in control of your own life, then all of that wouldn't matter would it...? Unless some 'higher-power is actually in control?
Darkangel - I removed that link due to the offensive content - please do not link to such sites in future than you very much
Originally posted by Russ D
Within reason? But wait, I thought YOU were in control of your life....if you're in control then there can be no 'within reason'....
yes there can be others can make adverse decisions affecting you humans are free thinkers in the workplace however you can still be sucessful and earn lots of money
Originally posted by Russ D
Again wait...if you were in control of your own life, then all of that wouldn't matter would it...? Unless some 'higher-power is actually in control?
if i really wanted to id proberbly get the cash right now and go and find her :D
but ultimatetly it would be her decision and i know it would be wtf hell NO who are you :p
darkangel
01-08-2003, 00:39
Originally posted by Russ D
If you could give me a valid reason why it's offensive then I'd consider it.
Darkangel - I removed that link due to the offensive content - please do not link to such sites in future than you very much.
Again wait...if you were in control of your own life, then all of that wouldn't matter would it...? Unless some 'higher-power is actually in control? could u give me a reason as to why u find calling religion BS is offensive?
inappropriate by who's standards? are u saying that if that was my religion i do not have the right to post it?
yes there can be others can make adverse decisions affecting you humans are free thinkers in the workplace however you can still be sucessful and earn lots of money
But if you were in control then these others wouldn't have ANY affect on your life :D
but ultimatetly it would be her decision and i know it would be wtf hell NO who are you
Again, if you were in control it wouldn't be HER decision would it??
could u give me a reason as to why u find calling religion BS is offensive?
The term BS is IMO quite offensive. Why? because as a moderator I have been given the authority on here to decide this sort of thing.
inappropriate by who's standards? are u saying that if that was my religion i do not have the right to post it?
Put it this way - I'm sure if there was a poll on nthw.co.uk users on which site they'd rather see links to removed, the one in my sig or the one you posted, which do YOU think you would come first?
darkangel
01-08-2003, 00:50
Originally posted by Russ D
Put it this way - I'm sure if there was a poll on nthw.co.uk users on which site they'd rather see links to removed, the one in my sig or the one you posted, which do YOU think you would come first? i sure that if a muslim site was posted the results would be the same, did u have a look at that site frankly i found it quite funny.
what guidelines are there to posting, surely it's a bit of a conflict of interest to remove things u persoanly find offensive but nobody else ha complained about?
Originally posted by Russ D
If that is God's plan then that's what they get, but remember that this isn't OUR life - it's God's. We don't OWN this life.
And could you honestly stand by that if you lost someone you loved more than life itself?
Originally posted by Russ D
But if you were in control then these others wouldn't have ANY affect on your life :D
lol round and round we go :D :D
Originally posted by Russ D
Again, if you were in control it wouldn't be HER decision would it??
one thing i never i said is i can control other people i CAN control my destiny with regards to getting qualifications and a job if i work hard and are intelligent and affectivly control my health
Originally posted by Russ D
The term BS is IMO quite offensive. Why? because as a moderator I have been given the authority on here to decide this sort of thing.
but the fact is its an expression not in the actual vulgar term :D
Originally posted by Russ D
Put it this way - I'm sure if there was a poll on nthw.co.uk users on which site they'd rather see links to removed, the one in my sig or the one you posted, which do YOU think you would come first?
i didnt see what was in the link though i will say it was it to do with satan endorsing him ?
Originally posted by Russ D
And as for being intelligent and being an asset to your company....just ask the people in NTL if that makes any difference :)
Don't even start me on this one, it was a rough shift tonight:D
I'm with Kronas on this one though, we do effect our own lives, and do not believe we are controlled by God or a higher power, you effect your own life, it is what you make it.
And Kronas knows how much I hate to agree with him:D
Originally posted by imback
I'm with Kronas on this one though, we do effect our own lives, and do not believe we are controlled by God or a higher power, you effect your own life, it is what you make it.
And Kronas knows how much I hate to agree with him:D
DAMN NOT YOU................... ;)
yep you know what i mean even if others dont :rolleyes:
and about your rough shift get a stiff :beer: down ya on me :D
Originally posted by kronas
DAMN NOT YOU................... ;)
yep you know what i mean even if others dont :rolleyes:
I'm with you man, everything is OK ;) :p
i sure that if a muslim site was posted the results would be the same, did u have a look at that site frankly i found it quite funny
That site has pure filth on it.
what guidelines are there to posting, surely it's a bit of a conflict of interest to remove things u persoanly find offensive but nobody else ha complained about?
It's moderator's discretion. The people who own this site have decided I have enough responsibility to judge what goes on. If you disagree then take it up with them.
And could you honestly stand by that if you lost someone you loved more than life itself?
I love God above all.
one thing i never i said is i can control other people i CAN control my destiny with regards to getting qualifications and a job if i work hard and are intelligent and affectivly control
my health
But God, who IS in control of other people's lives, can make anything happen.
but the fact is its an expression not in the actual vulgar term
Moderator's decision - nobody is to refer to anyone's religious beliefs as "BS" - if you wish to do so then try it on some other forum.
i didnt see what was in the link though i will say it was it to do with satan endorsing him ?
It was related to satan.
Originally posted by Russ D
It was related to satan.
erm so why was it taken down ?
just because you dont agree with satan you think hes evil how about letting others decide what they want to view
using your mod powers to satisfy your own discontent with an issue is wrong IMO and the site was not against TOS
Originally posted by kronas
erm so why was it taken down ?
just because you dont agree with satan you think hes evil how about letting others decide what they want to view
using your mod powers to satisfy your own discontent with an issue is wrong IMO and the site was not against TOS
Do you get much exercise jumping to conclusions??
The site has pure filth on it.
Nothing to do with religious beliefs. If you truly want to view it, I suggest you ask Darkangel to PM the address to you but if that url is posted on here the poster WILL have their posting rights disabled.
darkangel
01-08-2003, 01:06
didn't look at the site before just posted a random link, just flicked through it now but i can't see any pure filth, if i'm wrong i apologise
Originally posted by Russ D
I love God above all.
This I fail to understand, so you could accept the death of your own child believeing that it was gods will?:eek: I could not accept the loss of my son for any reason what so ever, if that was gods way then I'm glad I don't worship him.
I agree with Kronas again ( I have to stop doing that it can't be good for me) but why was the link to the worship of Satan taken down? If it contained anything offensive then I'm sorry and retract this but I have looked a great deal into this worship and found nothing offensive, and even a lot of common sense in it.
Again Russ thanks for partaking in this thread:)
Originally posted by Russ D
Do you get much exercise jumping to conclusions??
The site has pure filth on it.
Nothing to do with religious beliefs. If you truly want to view it, I suggest you ask Darkangel to PM the address to you but if that url is posted on here the poster WILL have their posting rights disabled.
no i dont usally jump to conclusions but its a bit iffy dont you think anyway i shall look at the link.............
Originally posted by Russ D
Do you get much exercise jumping to conclusions??
:p :p :p
EDIT : Darkangel could you post me the link please if you still have it:)
This I fail to understand, so you could accept the death of your own child believeing that it was gods will? I could not accept the loss of my son for any reason what so ever, if that was gods way then I'm glad I don't worship him.
The people of this site should know how much I love my daughter but it was God who gave her to me. She belongs to Him just as we all do, as children of God.
I agree with Kronas again ( I have to stop doing that it can't be good for me) but why was the link to the worship of Satan taken down? If it contained anything offensive then I'm sorry and retract this but I have looked a great deal into this worship and found nothing offensive, and even a lot of common sense in it
Don't you get suckered in.
Again Russ thanks for partaking in this thread
It's getting me knackard!! I want to go to sleep but I just don't know if I can trust this lot alone in this thread with no mods about!!
EDIT : Darkangel could you post me the link please if you still have it
No he won't post it, but he can PM it to you :)
Originally posted by imback
This I fail to understand, so you could accept the death of your own child believeing that it was gods will?:eek: I could not accept the loss of my son for any reason what so ever, if that was gods way then I'm glad I don't worship him.
i was going to comment on this it truely saddens me to think that someone believes in something so much as to make caless comment like that if it means what i think it means :(
Originally posted by imback
I agree with Kronas again ( I have to stop doing that it can't be good for me)
see we understand each other :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by imback
Again Russ thanks for partaking in this thread:)
ditto thanks it has been interesting and thats genuine :)
Originally posted by kronas
ditto thanks it has been interesting
You really think so? To me it's just gone the same way as all the rest.
Originally posted by Russ D
You really think so? To me it's just gone the same way as all the rest.
well we cant please everyone :rolleyes:
EDIT just seen the link and that site was harmless BS the fact it looked so fictitious and had so much crap written on it makes me think why was it pulled in the first place because it was satan russ ?
peterska2
01-08-2003, 01:18
Right well I have been put for the evening as I have been busy building my new PC but TBH I am disgusted with the fact that I have just read through an argument where even after being asked nicely not to call people beliefs BS that Kronas has continued to do so. Even when Andre came in and asked that this did not happen Kronas still continued to go on about it. Russ requested that Kronas goes away and sets his own site up to do that on. Kronas is still here going on about it. I find the fact that he has the nerve to call the Christian faith BS and then carry on going on about it very offensive as IMO this is a personal attack as to by strong beliefs. I know that it is not a personal atteck but IMO it is as I have made no secret of the fact that I am a Christian.
For those who say that they do not beleive in things that they cannot see - Do you beleive that the wind exists? Last time I looked I couldn't see it yet I could feel its power and witness it's effects. The same applies with God. You cannot see Him but you can feel His power and whether you like it or not you can see the effect that He has on those who believe in Him.
Originally posted by peterska2
Right well I have been put for the evening as I have been busy building my new PC but TBH I am disgusted with the fact that I have just read through an argument where even after being asked nicely not to call people beliefs BS that Kronas has continued to do so. Even when Andre came in and asked that this did not happen Kronas still continued to go on about it. Russ requested that Kronas goes away and sets his own site up to do that on. Kronas is still here going on about it. I find the fact that he has the nerve to call the Christian faith BS and then carry on going on about it very offensive as IMO this is a personal attack as to by strong beliefs. I know that it is not a personal atteck but IMO it is as I have made no secret of the fact that I am a Christian.
how can it be a personal attack i merely aimed it at the whole system of religion/belief
Originally posted by Russ D
No he won't post it, but he can PM it to you :)
Sorry Russ that is what I meant to post but well maybe had one to many bottles of wine after all night in tech support.
Originally posted by kronas
EDIT just seen the link and that site was harmless BS the fact it looked so fictitious and had so much crap written on it makes me think why was it pulled in the first place because it was satan russ ?
Trying to bait me eh Kronas? Won't work.
For those who say that they do not beleive in things that they cannot see - Do you beleive that the wind exists? Last time I looked I couldn't see it yet I could feel its power and witness it's effects. The same applies with God. You cannot see Him but you can feel His power and whether you like it or not you can see the effect that He has on those who believe in Him.
Just leave them - if they want to believe then they are free to do so: ditto if they choose not to.
Originally posted by Russ D
Trying to bait me eh Kronas? Won't work.
im not baiting russ bad choice of words on my part there i have never baited you with that type of intent just discussing debating are we still freinds :p :D :wavey:
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 01:22
Ok, Time for me to voice my opinion.
It can be said that there is no proof that God Exists, though Equally it can be said that there is no proof that he DOESN'T exist.
Christianity spent its early years in Britain denouncing the pagan religions as witchcraft, True Pagan religion worshipped the Earth and all animals and plants on it.
Muslim faiths are often denounced saying that they lead to mutilation etc.
Most people who are critical of religion do not understand the true intent.
Religious books were written by those in "power" within the religion
At the end of the day though, the history of any event is written by the victor, and is unlikely to be unbiased. Organised religion of any faith was originally used as a form of control of the masses.
I have no problem with anyone's beliefs no matter what form they may take, as long as they do not try to impose those beliefs on others, and that includes children.
If a parent wishes their child to follow a particular religion then they should educate the child on multiple religions and allow them to make the choice themselves when they are old enough to do so of their own will. If there IS a god, of whatever denomination I am sure he would not appreciate people who follow him blindly through being "brainwashed" into it without making the conscious choice to do so because that IS what they believe in.
We have freedom to choose what we want, Let us use it. Let religion be a PERSONAL thing, and not something imposed on us.
Humans are a greedy people on the whole, and organised religion contains aspects of that greed. You go to church, you place money in a collection plate... why? god being an omnipotent omniscient entity has no personal use for it. Priests use it to maintain the church, why do they not seek other methods of income? The bible states "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth" How meek are the priests to relieve their congregation of finances they have worked hard to obtain?
As far as I am aware at no point in any religious guide does it state "You should pay me to worship me, and those who speak for me or claim to, should expect this reward in return for talking to you" Yet we pay, why? because we have been conditioned to do so.
Organised religion corrupts that which was meant to be pure, If you are religious then do so within yourself. Through that alone is it pure.
If you try to convince someone else to become religious without them asking you to explain the belief, then you are corrupting that belief in your own actions.
Originally posted by Russ D
STILL friends?? :erm:
you know what i mean dont want bad blood and all that :p
darkangel
01-08-2003, 01:23
Originally posted by peterska2
Right well I have been put for the evening as I have been busy building my new PC but TBH I am disgusted with the fact that I have just read through an argument where even after being asked nicely not to call people beliefs BS that Kronas has continued to do so. Even when Andre came in and asked that this did not happen Kronas still continued to go on about it. Russ requested that Kronas goes away and sets his own site up to do that on. Kronas is still here going on about it. I find the fact that he has the nerve to call the Christian faith BS and then carry on going on about it very offensive as IMO this is a personal attack as to by strong beliefs. I know that it is not a personal atteck but IMO it is as I have made no secret of the fact that I am a Christian.
For those who say that they do not believe in things that they cannot see - Do you believe that the wind exists? Last time I looked I couldn't see it yet I could feel its power and witness it's effects. The same applies with God. You cannot see Him but you can feel His power and whether you like it or not you can see the effect that He has on those who believe in Him. where has he said Christianity specify is bs, if your referring to say BS fair enough poor choice of words.#
peterska2 i can feel the wind and know scientific reasons for wind can you give me proof of god
peterska2
01-08-2003, 01:23
Originally posted by Russ D
Just leave them - if they want to believe then they are free to do so: ditto if they choose not to.
Don't worry Russ.
I'm outta here to go and look after my own site as I have been offline since 8:30 till now and the other mod is away on business so it has been neglected so I could find anything there when I log into it in a min.
I've said my piece on the subject now and unless something major catches my attention I wont be making too many more posts in this thread.
Originally posted by peterska2
<snip>
Hello :)
I don't think Kronas did make a personal attatck, as I don't see how an attatck on a belief can personal, to the non believers amongst us it's like saying Man U's football is BS (hey Kronas you know that's true;) ), it was a genralisation and so could in no way be seens as a personal attack.
I do believe in the wind and I have seen it's "powers" but the only powers I have seen of god in mylife time is watching my family die in pain ( don't tell me, they were sinners:rolleyes: ) and TV coverage of innocent people starving to death all over the world. If that's god then I'd say Satan would be closer to the truth.
Hope you new PC went to plan by the way :)
darkangel
01-08-2003, 01:25
Originally posted by imback
like saying Man U's football is BS keep saying that and u can settle this argument for us:mad: :D
It can be said that there is no proof that God Exists, though Equally it can be said that there is no proof that he DOESN'T exist.
The difference being we do not need proof.
As far as I am aware at no point in any religious guide does it state "You should pay me to worship me, and those who speak for me or claim to, should expect this reward in return for talking to you" Yet we pay, why? because we have been conditioned to do so.
No, it's because the Bible states we are to give the first 10% of our earnings back to him. I'll try and find the reference. If you think your local church is embezzeling the funds then feel free to report them to the local authority. But contrary to popular belief, not ALL churches are rolling in it. Catholic and C of E churches maybe, but that's a different story....
Originally posted by imback
I do believe in the wind and I have seen it's "powers" but the only powers I have seen of god in mylife time is watching my family die in pain ( don't tell me, they were sinners:rolleyes: )
sorry to hear that :(
Originally posted by imback
and TV coverage of innocent people starving to death all over the world. If that's god then I'd say Satan would be closer to the truth.
they will be provided a better life in heaven once they reach there ;)
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 01:31
Russ, as always I do state that it is a personal belief, and that is not wrong in itself. However the point of putting the 10% of the earnings to him... think about it for a moment.
2000 years ago as the bible was being written currency was not as important as the barter system, People would trade their abilities for goods more than they would pay for them with money. Perhaps the intent of giving 10% to him was more intended as dedicating 10% of your thoughts to him, or performing your work with thoughts of him, to carry him in your heart as you do your daily tasks.
Originally posted by imback
TV coverage of innocent people starving to death all over the world. If that's god then I'd say Satan would be closer to the truth.
But that ISN'T God, I've already told you that.
darkangel
01-08-2003, 01:31
Originally posted by Russ D
But that ISN'T God, I've already told you that. isn't god all powerfull why doesn't he stop it then?
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
2000 years ago as the bible was being written currency was not as important as the barter system, People would trade their abilities for goods more than they would pay for them with money. Perhaps the intent of giving 10% to him was more intended as dedicating 10% of your thoughts to him, or performing your work with thoughts of him, to carry him in your heart as you do your daily tasks.
Right, I don't have the reference to hand but I was reading it the other day: it does not refer to 10% of your thoughts or anything like that - back in 'those days' most people who earn any money were people who produced things, such as potters, candlemakers, farmers etc and the Bible states they are to give the first 10% of their harvest.
Originally posted by darkangel
isn't god all powerfull why doesn't he stop it then?
I explained that too.
Originally posted by Russ D
I explained that too.
But maybe for the 2 year old child sitting in the African sand right now, breathing their last breath because they have no food, it's not a good enough reason.
I mean it's all very well saying we are being punished for sins of people ya da ya da yad I can accept that, what I can't accept is the painfull deaths of children so we can be taught a lesson :)
Originally posted by imback
But maybe for the 2 year old child sitting in the African sand right now, breathing their last breath because they have no food, it's not a good enough reason.
I mean it's all very well saying we are being punished for sins of people ya da ya da yad I can accept that, what I can't accept is the painfull deaths of children so we can be taught a lesson :)
if that two year old was not dying of starvation, who's to say he/she wouldn't not be dying of something else? As I said, when God decides when your deathday is, you go on that day, irrelevant of how it happens.
And these 'painful deaths' AREN'T to teach us a lesson...:confused:
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 01:39
Originally posted by Russ D
Right, I don't have the reference to hand but I was reading it the other day: it does not refer to 10% of your thoughts or anything like that - back in 'those days' most people who earn any money were people who produced things, such as potters, candlemakers, farmers etc and the Bible states they are to give the first 10% of their harvest.
And this was written in a book by people who were only human and could in themselves have written that in as a way to give themselves an income at the expense of others.
An omnipotent omniscient being would have no use for such goods. However a human would.
As you said Russ, there is no person who is without sin, that is a fact of humanity, and when we are dealing with books which are written by humans there is nothing to say that the intent or meaning in the books have not been corrupted over time, no matter how pure the original intent.
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
And this was written in a book by people who were only human and could in themselves have written that in as a way to give themselves an income at the expense of others.
An omnipotent omniscient being would have no use for such goods. However a human would.
Flippin eck you people don't give up!!! The 10% harvest was seen as a symbolic 'sacrifice'. More often than not the goods given would be distributed amongst the needy. It is often said that if you give to charity you are giving to God.
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 01:43
As the comment about paying was also a symbolic comment on how the organisation of religion could be corrupted by human nature....
[edit] don't get me wrong Russ, I am not attacking religion, merely the organisation of it and the elevation of individuals who can be corrupt into positions where the devout refuse to see them as potentially corrupt :D
darkangel
01-08-2003, 01:44
Originally posted by Russ D
More often than not the goods given would be distributed amongst the needy. It is often said that if you give to charity you are giving to God. please russ don't tell me u belive that more often or not it would have gone to fat bishops, priests etc, maybe to a lesser extent these days
Originally posted by Russ D
Flippin eck you people don't give up!!! The 10% harvest was seen as a symbolic 'sacrifice'. More often than not the goods given would be distributed amongst the needy.
how do you know it gets there you have to belive it does?........
i keep forgeting its a belief system :rolleyes:
what lord nikon is saying could be true but i still dont find the reasons millions of inocent lives as 'believeable'
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
As the comment about paying was also a symbolic comment on how the organisation of religion could be corrupted by human nature....
Yes indeed it could. I could also question the need for 'organised religion'.
please russ don't tell me u belive that more often or not it would have gone to fat bishops, priests etc
Well seeing as we have neither priests or bishops in my denomination then I couldn't answer that.
how do you know it gets there you have to belive it does?........
Because it's written in scriptures.
Originally posted by Russ D
And these 'painful deaths' AREN'T to teach us a lesson...:confused:
Sorry if I misunderstood but I thought you said this was as we were given freewill this is how they die and he does not intervine, well god, what with him being the big man and all that, could stop this childs death, or adleast let them die with no pain and hurt, but he doesn't.
Sorry but I don't see how the argument stands up, it calls for a lot of faith, no it calls for bline faith to velieve in the bible and what it entails. But htis is just my view on it.
Originally posted by Russ D
Because it's written in scriptures.
oh...i see so you have never seen it for yourself or even questioned someone in the church about this ?
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 01:49
And scriptures were written by people who were potentially corrupt.....
Belief is a personal thing, it exists in the individual concerned, and there alone is it pure.
If it is written down and handed on then over time it can lose that purity as it is rewritten to be understood by the people it is then given to.
Scriptures are also written by people, and the content may have altered over time.
Let your belief remain in you, where it is pure, where it cannot be contaminated by human nature.
Originally posted by imback
Sorry if I misunderstood but I thought you said this was as we were given freewill this is how they die and he does not intervine, well god, what with him being the big man and all that, could stop this childs death, or adleast let them die with no pain and hurt, but he doesn't.
He gives us the choice to either listen to Him or satan. Like in the cartoons where you see an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other? In a humorous kind of way, that's not far off the truth.
oh...i see so you have never seen it for yourself or even questioned someone in the church about this ?
As some of the scriptures were written more than 2000 years ago then I'd say it would be pretty difficult....but yes, we have discussed it in Bible study.
darkangel
01-08-2003, 01:51
Originally posted by Russ D
[B
Well seeing as we have neither priests or bishops in my denomination then I couldn't answer that. [/B] that's why i added the etc would cell leader be a better choice or have i got the wrong religion?
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
And scriptures were written by people who were potentially corrupt.....
Belief is a personal thing, it exists in the individual concerned, and there alone is it pure.
If it is written down and handed on then over time it can lose that purity as it is rewritten to be understood by the people it is then given to.
Scriptures are also written by people, and the content may have altered over time.
Let your belief remain in you, where it is pure, where it cannot be contaminated by human nature.
But all that pales in to insignificance when you see similar accounts popping up in other journals and letters written around that time which weren't connected with the Bible.
that's why i added the etc would cell leader be a better choice or have i got the wrong religion?
We have a Pastor and the financial books for our church are open for anyone to see at any time.
Originally posted by Russ D
He gives us the choice to either listen to Him or satan. Like in the cartoons where you see an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other? In a humorous kind of way, that's not far off the truth.
i dont actually think those people in precarious situations chose where they want to be they are unfortunate to be caught up in those areas which are poverty stricken
Originally posted by Russ D
As some of the scriptures were written more than 200 years ago then I'd say it would be pretty difficult....but yes, we have discussed it in Bible study.
so your going on something somebody told you or cant read :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Russ D
He gives us the choice to either listen to Him or satan. Like in the cartoons where you see an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other? In a humorous kind of way, that's not far off the truth.
.
I know what you mean mate, but that child has never been given a choice have they, so someone completely innocent dies.
Originally posted by imback
I know what you mean mate, but that child has never been given a choice have they, so someone completely innocent dies.
That only seems unfair when you look at it in human terms - but the whole heavenly realm is not on human terms! That child may go on to something 1000 times more peaceful, happy and loving that what they had on earth.
edit - it's almost 2am...I'm glad I'm on paternity leave!!! talking of which, I'm sure I left a baby around here somewhere... ;)
KingPhoenix
01-08-2003, 01:59
im an atheist (i think thats how you spell it)
believe uin god to a degree....
I,e., if he has so much power why cant he stop evil? and war?????
I belive god brings alll your happiness when he chooses (not yours choice) when he has finnishes other jobs.....
Originally posted by Russ D
That only seems unfair when you look at it in human terms - but the whole heavenly realm is not on human terms! That child may go on to something 1000 times more peaceful, happy and loving that what they had on earth.
So that makes the suffering of the child and their family OK ?
I'm sorry I have been through enough in my life to come to the conclusion that either a) God does not exist or b) he hates me more than he does satan :(
Originally posted by KingPhoenix
I,e., if he has so much power why cant he stop evil? and war?????
...aaaaand how many times have I answered that tonight???? :spin:
So that makes the suffering of the child and their family OK ?
Come on, I never said that.
darkangel
01-08-2003, 02:01
think it's about time for russ to get some sleep or is it feeding time yet:)
a couple of question.
if your daughter was about to be run over would you let it happen?
if u didn't how would u know if your where going against gods will or fighting Satan, i can all but guarantee if it can down to it you would chose your child over your beliefs
Originally posted by Russ D
...aaaaand how many times have I answered that tonight???? :spin:
way too many :rolleyes:
well im off
cya all later
goodnight all..................russ;)
Originally posted by Russ D
[B
Come on, I never said that. [/B]
I know mate, so then justify to me why "god" did not stop it then.
if your daughter was about to be run over would you let it happen?
What a daft question of course I wouldn't.
if u didn't how would u know if your where going against gods will or fighting Satan, i can all but guarantee if it can down to it you would chose your child over your beliefs
You're not making too much sense there but if I read you correctly, God will not take a life that way, and some advice for you, do not pressume to know me and my relationship with God.
You've done it a few times tonight and been wrong each time.
I know mate, so then justify to me why "god" did not stop it then
(sigh) I don't know. I don't have all the answers but what I DO know is that it is not His will to cause pain or harm to an innocent.
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 02:07
My thoughts drift at this point to Atlantis.
On all accounts Atlanteans were a highly developed race with incredibly advanced technology, and this information occurs in many places around the world.
Beyond this there is the existance of UFOs, could it not be HYPOTHETICALLY possible that the being percieved as Jesus was someone who posessed advanced technology? We can cure many diseases now that 2000 years ago would have killed, using such technology to cure those diseases would be percieved as miracles.
Now, I am not saying that this is the truth, as we have no way to say for certain, I am however saying that as accounts are passed down through the millenia that those accounts, in the hands of men and women who themselves may be corrupt, that those could be changed. It is all down to what each of us, as individuals believe.
Reading the bible you can easily interpret some parts as referring to extraterrestrial existance though....
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against
the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the
spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
heavenly realms has always referred historically to the stars, could they not be percieved as a warning that while good exists beyond this, our planet, there is also evil there?
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 02:11
Originally posted by KingPhoenix
I,e., if he has so much power why cant he stop evil? and war?????
Simple to answer that one.
As humans, if you read the bible etc you find that we were given the freedom to choose the paths our lives take, If God was to intervene and put an end to war, then he would be removing that choice from us. It is up to humanity as a whole to evolve and develope beyond the point where war exists. And it must be our choice to do so.
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Now, I am not saying that this is the truth, as we have no way to say for certain, I am however saying that as accounts are passed down through the millenia that those accounts, in the hands of men and women who themselves may be corrupt, that those could be changed. It is all down to what each of us, as individuals believe.
So what about such documents as Caeser's diaries which make references to Jesus, whilst having no real connection with the Bible?
And actually I'm willing to believe there may be life on other planets. I wouldn't want to meet them but it's possible that because it's not mentioned in the Bible doesnt mean they're not there, after all, God created the heavens and the earth.
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 02:16
Russ, this page is also interesting...
http://www.20kweb.com/weird_stuff/bible_ufo_gallery.html
It shows depictions throughout history of what could be termed UFOs appearing in pictures within bibles produced at that time.
a 1710 painting of John the baptist with a UFO above him, a 1501 botticeli showing a saucer above the stable, etc etc
Again, it doesn't detract from the content of the bible, but would seem to lend a visual slant on the possibility of advanced technology being in play more than miracles.
Having said that though Russ, there is one miracle which cannot be explained through Technology, and that is the miracle of life.
Congratulations on the daughter :)
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Having said that though Russ, there is one miracle which cannot be explained through Technology, and that is the miracle of life.
Oh don't worry, I'm sure some idiot will have a try of that.... :rolleyes:
I'm off to bed. Behave people.
Originally posted by Russ D
...aaaaand how many times have I answered that tonight???? :spin:
Russ, you seem to get asked that question regularly in these sorts of threads..
Originally posted by Russ D
Oh don't worry, I'm sure some idiot will have a try of that.... :rolleyes:
It may have already happened to a small degree.
A scientist has built a robot with of dish a neurons from a rat brain for a brain..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3096973.stm
Originally posted by TheBig1
But why would anyone believe in something they cannot see or touch
Do you believe in air?
timewarrior2001
01-08-2003, 11:33
Russ, I just caught up on this thread, and Noticed somehting that again has sparked my curiosity.
Firstly can I apologise in advance because I dont mean to keep putting you on the spot like this......but.
You say our life here isnt actually ours, its Gods.
But thats according to your religion, what about people of differing religions that dont beleive in christendoms version of God? Are their lives still owned by your God, or are they indeed as I like ot think, their own lives......perhaps if they are religious watched over and guided by their deity?
Dont get me wrong I uderstand that a lot of religions follow the same GOD, but some have several gods, and some worshipped deities long before Christ announced he was the son of the one all powerfull God that demanded people worshipped no other "false" god......therefor belittling other older religions.
Originally posted by timewarrior2001
You say our life here isnt actually ours, its Gods.
But thats according to your religion, what about people of differing religions that dont beleive in christendoms version of God? Are their lives still owned by your God, or are they indeed as I like ot think, their own lives......perhaps if they are religious watched over and guided by their deity?
Dont get me wrong I uderstand that a lot of religions follow the same GOD, but some have several gods, and some worshipped deities long before Christ announced he was the son of the one all powerfull God that demanded people worshipped no other "false" god......therefor belittling other older religions.
No need to apologise!!
Satan was put on the earth to be given the opportunity to test us. God loves it when we choose Him but especially when confronted by a choice, and that's where the evil one comes in. Satan's plan is to pull us away from God's plan by any means neccessary and if that includes setting up another religion then so be it. It's perfectly feasible that these other religions do a LOT of good work for charity and are otherwise very nice people, but due to their nature of their beliefs they will never give their lives to God which ultimately is what Satan wants.
Originally posted by Russ D
(sigh) Here we go again.......
All these scientists have done IMO is find the ways through the brain that God uses to 'speak' to us....
You see. You just can't derail a true believer. :)
As some philosopher once said, you can't prove, or disprove, the existance of God by logic.
Originally posted by Russ D
The term BS is IMO quite offensive. Why? because as a moderator I have been given the authority on here to decide this sort of thing.
Just like God. Omnipotent. :)
Oh am I now?? Well how did I manage to father a baby then eh???
Ohhhh, you said omnipotent....my bad...
Indeed. Have more faith in your faith. (Even though I think you're mistaken. Which is my perogative, I believe.)
Have more faith?!? I don't think I could get any more :D
Originally posted by Russ D
Have more faith?!? I don't think I could get any more :D
IMO russ can believe what he wants even though most of us know hes outrightly wrong :p ;)
Originally posted by Russ D
Satan's plan is to pull us away from God's plan by any means neccessary and if that includes setting up another religion then so be it. It's perfectly feasible that these other religions do a LOT of good work for charity and are otherwise very nice people, but due to their nature of their beliefs they will never give their lives to God which ultimately is what Satan wants.
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but I *cannot* sit here and let a piece of sanctimonious nonsense like this go past!
What you are saying is "You must do must do it *this* way and this way *alone*, because, out of all the multitude of faiths and beliefs and billions of people out there *WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"
That is the utmost *height* of arrogance and implies that the God you believe in has the attitude and behaviour of a *spoiled child*!
You claim to have the "one true answer", ignoring the fact that there are plenty of other religions out there who *also* claim to have exactly the same thing, yet you cannot see the logical conclusion that follows that if you say *they* are wrong, and they say *you* are wrong, possibly you're *both* wrong!
You sit there smug in your self-righteousness because you know *you're* ok and are quite content to damn everyone else. Forget Christian charity or forgiveness, if they don't do it the right way, they're stuffed.
Frankly I'd be happy if you wake up after you're dead to find that Mumbo Jumbo, God of the Congo is actually The One True God, but as far as I'm concerned, this world is it, it's not a rehearsal, so I'm going to make sure that I try to make people happy and not cause people unnecessary suffering instead of saying "well if you're suffering it's because God wants you to!"
Religion? You can keep it!
Very good Graham, I'm not sure if that was an attempt to wind me up but it certainly tickled me :D
What you are saying is "You must do must do it *this* way and this way *alone*, because, out of all the multitude of faiths and beliefs and billions of people out there *WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"
Show me a faith which doesn't share this ideal.
That is the utmost *height* of arrogance and implies that the God you believe in has the attitude and behaviour of a *spoiled child*!
No no, what *would* be arrogance would be to criticise people for choosing other religions, for physically/verbally attacking followers of other faiths. Have I ever done this?
You claim to have the "one true answer", ignoring the fact that there are plenty of other religions out there who *also* claim to have exactly the same thing, yet you cannot see the logical conclusion that follows that if you say *they* are wrong, and they say *you* are wrong, possibly you're *both* wrong!
Of course I feel I have the "one true answer" as you call it, this has come from the many experiences I've had since becomming a Christian. Naturally if someone else thinks their own chosen path is also the "right way" then I'm going to disagree with them but I'd still have 100% respect for them and any comfort their beliefs bring them, just as I'd expect from you towards myself.
You sit there smug in your self-righteousness because you know *you're* ok and are quite content to damn everyone else.
Any particular need to get offensive with me? Any particular need to impose your beliefs on me? Go take them elsewhere my friend!
Frankly I'd be happy if you wake up after you're dead to find that Mumbo Jumbo, God of the Congo is actually The One True God, but as far as I'm concerned, this world is it, it's not a rehearsal, so I'm going to make sure that I try to make people happy and not cause people unnecessary suffering instead of saying "well if you're suffering it's because God wants you to!"
Thank you, I'm glad you think so highly of me.
Religion? You can keep it!
Thanks!! I will! But at the same time I won't get offensive or ram my beliefs down anyone's throat as you have done. I don't preach, convert or try to make others agree with me, I simply answer the questions people put to me. If individuals don't like my answers then maybe they should ask those who pose the questions to stop doing so.
If you wish to argue you can PM me or take it to MSN messenger. You don't have to agree with my faith, I'm not out to score converts but whatever you believe, that's between you and God.
If theres one thing I've learnt it's to not even try to argue religion with a true believer:)
There was the time I decided to get really picky with some Hare Krishna's and their beliefs. They wriggled and squirmed but wouldn't budge an inch, even though they were spouting absolute (imo) boll*cks:D
Originally posted by Ramrod
If theres one thing I've learnt it's to not even try to argue religion with a true believer:)
There was the time I decided to get really picky with some Hare Krishna's and their beliefs. They wriggled and squirmed but wouldn't budge an inch, even though they were spouting absolute (imo) boll*cks:D
but it makes a good discussion ramrod :)
darkangel
01-08-2003, 21:39
russ:if it's not to personal a question & u don't mind me asking what made u become a christian?
Originally posted by Russ D
I'm not out to score converts but whatever you believe, that's between you and God. isn't that something christians are supposed to do?
Dave Stones
01-08-2003, 22:10
Originally posted by Ramrod
If theres one thing I've learnt it's to not even try to argue religion with a true believer:)
There was the time I decided to get really picky with some Hare Krishna's and their beliefs. They wriggled and squirmed but wouldn't budge an inch, even though they were spouting absolute (imo) boll*cks:D
we argued with jehovah's witnesses on many occasions... suppose it doesnt really apply as they are annoyances really arent they.
i know a fair few people who are beginning to look upon buddhism now though because they can have the peace and all that of a religion without having to worship a god as such. i still question it slightly but hey if it makes em happy they can do whatever they want...
after my RE lessons at school i also personally think buddhism has the best ideas etc but hey this is just me
isn't that something christians are supposed to do?
it was "preaching gods word" or something wasnt it? they thought it was right and all these tribal people on the weird little pacific islands were butchers etc cos of their culture so of course they were wrong. maybe im wrong i dunno about history etc all i know about is people getting eaten in fiji...
russ:if it's not to personal a question & u don't mind me asking what made u become a christian?
I was brought up as a Catholic but left the faith when I was 18 as I felt it was doing nothing for me. I still believed in God but somehow all the rules and regulation just didn't seem right for me. I always wanted to return to religion in some way and was just waiting for the right time.
In february of last year I met a student nurse from London who was a Christian and to cut a long story short, I knew this was the opportunity I was waiting for. I went along to her church which was very different to the catholic ways and I knew instantly that this was for me. I then became a Christian on august 26th last year and have not looked back since.
isn't that something christians are supposed to do?
Yes it is, and I kind of do it in my own way. Instead of going out and preaching (or as many people see it, hassling), I just make sure everyone knows I'm a Christian and if they want to know more, they can approach me to discuss it. That way I guess I could be seen as 'looking for converts' but they are coming to me, so no-one can accuse me of hassling them. Some people just don't wish to know and I'm leaving them well alone.
Originally posted by Graham
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but I *cannot* sit here and let a piece of sanctimonious nonsense like this go past!
What you are saying is "You must do must do it *this* way and this way *alone*, because, out of all the multitude of faiths and beliefs and billions of people out there *WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"
Graham, while I personally don't agree with the idea of God and the various faiths all telling us we should live one way or another, we do all have the right to our beliefs.
I have discussions with Russ on religion in a few threads on here and nthw.com, and I can honestly say, I have never seen him try to convert anyone. When asked about his beliefs, he usually seems to answer that they are the right beliefs for him.
Originally posted by Russ D
Very good Graham, I'm not sure if that was an attempt to wind me up but it certainly tickled me
I'm interested to note that you will laugh at other people's opinions simply because they don't agree with you.
However that was not an attempted "wind up", that was a statement of my opinion. I can't help it if you don't like it.
*WE AND WE ALONE HAVE THE TRUTH* and if you don't do it the way we tell you, you're damned!"
Show me a faith which doesn't share this ideal.
Which rather goes to prove my point!
If you *all* claim to be right and you *all* say that everyone else is wrong, the logical conclusion is inescapable for anyone who is willing to open their mind.
No no, what *would* be arrogance would be to criticise people for choosing other religions, for physically/verbally attacking followers of other faiths. Have I ever done this?
Sorry, did I *completely* misread the following???:
"Satan's plan is to pull us away from God's plan by any means neccessary [...] due to their nature of their beliefs they will never give their lives to God which ultimately is what Satan wants"
You are *ATTACKING* every other religion and every other believer of those religions by saying that, because they're not doing it *your* way (which is, of course, "God's plan") they are doing *SATAN'S* work!!
if someone else thinks their own chosen path is also the "right way" then I'm going to disagree with them but I'd still have 100% respect for them
That's why you say they're doing Satan's work, is it? Just checking...
You sit there smug in your self-righteousness because you know *you're* ok and are quite content to damn everyone else.
Any particular need to get offensive with me? Any particular need to impose your beliefs on me? Go take them elsewhere my friend!
Offensive? ROFL!
I think your views and smug and self-righteous and I will say so as much as I want. I am not "imposing" that belief on you, I am telling you that is what I think of what you have said.
I will not "take them elsewhere", I will post them in here because I have every damn right to say them in here.
If you can't stand someone criticising your views, *don't* express them in a public forum where they are subject to the scrutiny of others!
Religion? You can keep it!
Thanks!! I will! But at the same time I won't get offensive or ram my beliefs down anyone's throat as you have done.
Ah, the sweet smell of hypocrisy!
You have been shoving your beliefs all over this forum for the last hundred or so messages, but when someone else expresses a different opinion, suddenly you want them to shut up!
Matthew 7:1-5
I don't preach, convert or try to make others agree with me
You just imply they're doing the devil's work. Nice of you...
If you wish to argue you can PM me or take it to MSN messenger.
No, I will post in a public forum because you are posting in a public forum. If you wish to take this discussion to PM or messenger or anywhere else, that's entirely your right, but whilst you post in public I will *reply* in public!
You don't have to agree with my faith
Gosh, thanks, that's so kind of you (that's sarcasm, by the way)
whatever you believe, that's between you and God.
Actually it's between me and my conscience if it's all the same with you.
Originally posted by scastle
[B]Graham, while I personally don't agree with the idea of God and the various faiths all telling us we should live one way or another, we do all have the right to our beliefs.
And I have *NEVER* said anywhere that he cannot or should not hold his beliefs!
However as I have said already and will keep saying, if he is going to express them in public I am going to question them in public.
That is, after all, what discussion forums are for, isn't it?
Which rather goes to prove my point!
If you *all* claim to be right and you *all* say that everyone else is wrong, the logical conclusion is inescapable for anyone who is willing to open their mind.
Simple then: don't get involved with religion.
Sorry, did I *completely* misread the following???:
"Satan's plan is to pull us away from God's plan by any means neccessary [...] due to their nature of their beliefs they will never give their lives to God which ultimately is what Satan wants"
You are *ATTACKING* every other religion and every other believer of those religions by saying that, because they're not doing it *your* way (which is, of course, "God's plan") they are doing *SATAN'S* work!!
No you did not misread it. I was asked a question and I gave the answer. No need to offensive just because you disagree.
Offensive? ROFL!
Yes. Your tone has been little short of sharpe AND offensive. There are plenty of people on this site who disagree with me yet fail to come at me with an 'attitude'.
I think your views and smug and self-righteous and I will say so as much as I want. I am not "imposing" that belief on you, I am telling you that is what I think of what you have said
Funny who no-one else on here seems to share your view. And you will tone down your attitude on this site. We may be relaxed but personal attacks are not tolerated. You are free to disagree with anything I do or say but there are mature *grown up* ways of doing it.
If you can't stand someone criticising your views, *don't* express them in a public forum where they are subject to the scrutiny of others!
I can take criticism from all angles, what I won't take is someone being offensive seemingly for the sake of it.
You have been shoving your beliefs all over this forum for the last hundred or so messages, but when someone else expresses a different opinion, suddenly you want them to shut up!
Oh really? Well have another little read through the thread. All I do is answer people's questions. You call that ramming my beliefs down people's throats? Well ask people such as Scastle and Darkangel to stop asking me questions.
You just imply they're doing the devil's work.
Yeah right whatever.
No, I will post in a public forum because you are posting in a public forum. If you wish to take this discussion to PM or messenger or anywhere else, that's entirely your right, but whilst you post in public I will *reply* in public!
I'm choked for you.
Gosh, thanks, that's so kind of you (that's sarcasm, by the way)
You're welcome.
Actually it's between me and my conscience if it's all the same with you.
So you do have one then.
However as I have said already and will keep saying, if he is going to express them in public I am going to question them in public.
Expressing my beliefs? No no, it's called "answering questions that people put to me".
Graham Graham, this is a discussion forum which thrives on people with opposing views on subjects. What makes this site a success (and it's predecessor) is that although debates can get heated, we respect each other's views. There may very well be a day where someone posts something which we will all disagree with but what we do is deal with it in a mature way, not resort to schoolground bickering.
Enough!!!!!
Thread Closed...
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