View Full Version : BT Losing 100k customers a month
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/29/bt_q1_results/
Certainly puts the 100k a month are coming back to BT adverts into perspective when 200k a month are leaving.
Aren't they just 'leaving' to get cheaper call rates from the likes of Talk Talk etc?
I don't think they are actually leaving 'per se' (as in BT are still getting their line rental)
I could be reading that wrongly though. :shrug:
It doesn't break it down but I'd assume a large chunk of them are still paying BT line rental and using talktalk etc for the calls.
It doesn't break it down but I'd assume a large chunk of them are still paying BT line rental and using talktalk etc for the calls.
That's my interpretation too, & that is a very different to losing 200,000 customers taking their line rentals to ntl/Telewest (for example)
They are not leaving because they are unhappy I don't think, just because they can get cheaper calls elsewhere (& who can blame them!? :p: )
Most are still paying BT line rental not because they're happy with BT (as if) but because BT's ridiculous wholesale charges have made it virtually impossible for the various CPS providers to offer a single bill at competitive rates.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2004/07/12/cnbt12.xml (http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2004/07/12/cnbt12.xml)
"BT currently charges more for its wholesale line rental than it charges its own customers."
A significant proportion of those leaving are opting for cable. NTL & Telewest recorded a combined NET add of 56,814 telephony customers (44,700 ntl) in the first 3 months of 2004.
scrotnig
30-07-2004, 01:39
The whole telephone industry needs shaking top to bottom. It stinks. ALL prices are still WAY too high and companies are forever pushing them higher.
themelon
19-10-2004, 09:03
I dont know my bill has certainally fallen a lot in the past 3 years. I remember I was spending up to £30 a month on calls, now with ntl iam spending well under a tenner with just 5p for a whole hour!
themelon
19-10-2004, 09:06
They are not leaving because they are unhappy I don't think, just because they can get cheaper calls elsewhere (& who can blame them!? :p: )
I think they would be losing more line rental........and people have to be pretty unhappy to leave you would think! If they were happy with the prices theyd stay!!
60% of the UK dont really much choice who they pay line rental to anyway so even if they were unhappy, hopefully LLU will sort this mess out.
Ignition
24-10-2004, 19:41
I could mention that the standard line rental before the increase that BT did was actually loss making, might still be actually.
Of course it's all a misnomer, they're part of the same company that supplies them their connections so no-loss really.
themelon
04-11-2004, 10:17
I dont see how it can be loss making really.
Its a line, my line has been hanging from a pole since BT Installed it or GPO when phones first came out probably!
Ive never seen a BT Van in my street maintaining anything, and when I was with BT they didnt even attempt to fix the crackling and noise which stopped ADSL from working.
Whether its on or off its always there I can possibley envisage anyway that they are spending £9.50 or month on my phoneline.
Ignition
04-11-2004, 11:05
I meant BT Retail used to charge less for line rental (when you could still get line rental only) that BT Wholesale charged them.
I meant BT Retail used to charge less for line rental (when you could still get line rental only) that BT Wholesale charged them.
So that's loss-making in the messy world of internal company politics and deparmental internicene conflict, but out in the real world, BT divisions exchanging cash with each other is magnificently irrelevant, surely? As themelon says, most BT phone lines are installed and then left to rot for decades, presumably costing BT almost nothing.
ian@huth
04-11-2004, 11:38
I dont see how it can be loss making really.
Its a line, my line has been hanging from a pole since BT Installed it or GPO when phones first came out probably!
Ive never seen a BT Van in my street maintaining anything, and when I was with BT they didnt even attempt to fix the crackling and noise which stopped ADSL from working.
Whether its on or off its always there I can possibley envisage anyway that they are spending £9.50 or month on my phoneline.
You may never have seen BT maintaining anything on your line but are you watching it 24/7?
My mother has never seen anyone maintaining her line that has been there since she had a phone with no dial and an operator answered every call she made.
Most of the infrastructure isn't on the bit of wire you can see from your house or the pole that it is connected to. What about the exchanges and those satellites that carry telephone traffic?
etccarmageddon
04-11-2004, 12:54
hopefully BT will be loosing bucket loads of broadband customers to cable soon!
hopefully BT will be loosing bucket loads of broadband customers to cable soon!
I don't see why, ADSL is cheap, you have a massive choice of suppliers, it's more widely available and it normally doesn't require an ignoramus to come in and Kango your entire driveway to lay a bit of cable.
ian@huth
04-11-2004, 13:41
hopefully BT will be loosing bucket loads of broadband customers to cable soon!
I don't think that this will happen. Most users of ADSL will probably be quite happy with their service and not inclined to change if their connection is doing what they want it to for most of the time. Also most users of ADSL will probably know nothing about the proposed speed changes which have only been talked about on a few websites that they may never visit.
What it will probably do is encourage NTL users on dialup to switch to broadband , but only when they are told about it. If NTL advertise the new speeds widely it will maybe tempt dialup users of other ISPs to switch to it and possibly ADSL users who cannot get more than 512k.
When you think about it, what are NTL really giving? Most users will continue to do the same things as they always have done but will get them done quicker. Some users will move to a lower tier which will save them money. I don't think that my downstream usage will be very different to what it is now and I believe this will be the case for most users. The ones that will benefit most are the 24/7 warez merchants so I hope that NTL will identify and deal with these.
Stuartbe
04-11-2004, 14:43
I don't see why, ADSL is cheap, you have a massive choice of suppliers, it's more widely available and it normally doesn't require an ignoramus to come in and Kango your entire driveway to lay a bit of cable.
:D :rofl: :rofl: PMSL......
To true.... That deserves mucho rep pionts :)
Cheers Bifta... That make my afternoon :)
scrotnig
04-11-2004, 15:28
I see once again it's amusing to insult and demean ntl staff on here.
:mad:
The vast majority of ntl installers are dedicated professional people, if a little overworked at times.
It's a bit disappointing to see one of the team supporting this sort of thing, as I know that's not the view of the CF staff in general.
Stuartbe
04-11-2004, 15:32
I see once again it's amusing to insult and demean ntl staff on here.
:mad:
The vast majority of ntl installers are dedicated professional people, if a little overworked at times.
It's a bit disappointing to see one of the team supporting this sort of thing, as I know that's not the view of the CF staff in general.
I see that you are unable to understand the concept of a joke. If I had meant that comment to be insulting I would not have used smilies in the post.
scrotnig
04-11-2004, 15:38
I see that you are unable to understand the concept of a joke. If I had meant that comment to be insulting I would not have used smilies in the post.
Not at all, I just tire of reading generalised insults about the intellligence of ntl staff when those of us on here work very hard to assist customers on this site.
Look at the other ntlhell sites and the reason they are not that busy is that most of the staff are over here, it seems silly to put that at risk.
Stuartbe
04-11-2004, 15:47
Not at all, I just tire of reading generalised insults about the intellligence of ntl staff when those of us on here work very hard to assist customers on this site.
Look at the other ntlhell sites and the reason they are not that busy is that most of the staff are over here, it seems silly to put that at risk.
I think you will find that the vast majority of " insults " are meant in jest and are very rarely aimed at a member of the forums as this is not tollerated and never will be. You have to remeber that most people come to this site after having problems with NTL. All the members and the team are very greatfull for the invaluable assistance from the NTL staff. Try not to take things so personaly m8.
scrotnig
04-11-2004, 15:52
I think you will find that the vast majority of " insults " are meant in jest and are very rarely aimed at a member of the forums as this is not tollerated and never will be. You have to remeber that most people come to this site after having problems with NTL. All the members and the team are very greatfull for the invaluable assistance from the NTL staff. Try not to take things so personaly m8.
I don't take it personally but on the other hand, there are plenty of people on here who are staff and who find this sort of thing offensive.
The site has actually lost one or two people...proppinupthebar being a prime example....due to this sort of thing going on, and I would have thought the team might be a bit more careful - joking or otherwise - not to make it look like that path is being trodden again.
We all know any company has some bad apples but those on this site generally aren't among them, and when we're effectively working in our own time the last thing we want is to see the site staff expressing amusement at derogatory comments towards us.
I hope this doesn't sound oversensitive but there are many people who will back up this view.
orangebird
04-11-2004, 16:20
I don't take it personally but on the other hand, there are plenty of people on here who are staff and who find this sort of thing offensive.
The site has actually lost one or two people...proppinupthebar being a prime example....due to this sort of thing going on, and I would have thought the team might be a bit more careful - joking or otherwise - not to make it look like that path is being trodden again.
We all know any company has some bad apples but those on this site generally aren't among them, and when we're effectively working in our own time the last thing we want is to see the site staff expressing amusement at derogatory comments towards us.
I hope this doesn't sound oversensitive but there are many people who will back up this view.
I have to agree with Mark here - If I were to make regular insulting (even in jest) comments about how stupid/ignorant/thick as two short planks some of ntls customers are, would I get the same leniency?
I have to agree with Mark here - If I were to make regular insulting (even in jest) comments about how stupid/ignorant/thick as two short planks some of ntls customers are, would I get the same leniency?
Personally, I wouldn't object ... I sit close to our own Guest Relations department so I overhear some stuff. I know exactly how unreasonable and dense a *minority* of people can be. :)
Actually, please do post some 'thick customer' stories if you can ... I need a laugh right now.
I don't take it personally but on the other hand, there are plenty of people on here who are staff and who find this sort of thing offensive.
proppinupthebar being a prime example....
Sorry Mark not the prime example - I strongly contest the idea that we had anything to do with his departure from the site. He had a problem with a member of the team's signature and he even asked others views to which they did not have a problem with it, but he still left! (Toys being thrown from pram springs to mind).
I also didn't appreciate the time he sent abuse to us (twice I might add) in a reported post, again demanding that we took action or he would 'F******* leave' and those was his exact words. So whilst the CF team do respect the fact that what can be said, can be offensive to some, we do not appreciate being abused in that respect either. And some point the blame at us for his departure but the there is always two sides to a coin as there is a story.
Anyway apologies for taking this off-topic but sorry that had to be said.
scrotnig
04-11-2004, 16:42
Sorry Mark not the prime example - I strongly contest the idea that we had anything to do with his departure from the site. He had a problem with a member of the team's signature and he even asked others views to which they did not have a problem with it, but he still left! (Toys being thrown from pram springs to mind).
I also didn't appreciate the time he sent abuse to us (twice I might add) in a reported post, again demanding that we took action or he would 'F******* leave' and those was his exact words. So whilst the CF team do respect the fact that what can be said, can be offensive to some, we do not appreciate being abused in that respect either. And some point the blame at us for his departure but the there is always two sides to a coin as there is a story.
Anyway apologies for taking this off-topic but sorry that had to be said.
Fair enough...I don't know everything about the proppin situation and if what you say is correct, that's unacceptable too.
orangebird
04-11-2004, 18:37
Personally, I wouldn't object ... I sit close to our own Guest Relations department so I overhear some stuff. I know exactly how unreasonable and dense a *minority* of people can be. :)
Actually, please do post some 'thick customer' stories if you can ... I need a laugh right now.
Well, there was the one about the lady who rang up CS because she had missed the last 5 mins of a Star Trek episode, and expected the CS rep to tell her what had happened.... when the rep didn't know, she went off on one, threatening to leave ntl and go to BT. The rep thwarted those plans by letting the customer know that BT don't actually sell digi tv :dunce:. All ended well though - the rep shouted round the call centre until they found someone that had seen the episode, and told the customer all about it. :rolleyes:
Or, there was the asthmatic man, who threatened to sue ntl for his deteriorating health, due to the increasing amount of asthmatic attacks he he was having because of this:... Using video+, he would set his vcr to record Knight Rider. A few times though, video+ would end the recording maybe a couple of minutes before the program actually finished. He was greatly distressed by this, and obviously, this was ntls fault....
And this is just an example of some of the stories the cs reps get. I'll dig out some more soon.....
Graham F
04-11-2004, 19:24
oh the stories i could tell you....:D
maybe after the footy :D
I see once again it's amusing to insult and demean ntl staff on here.
:mad:
The vast majority of ntl installers are dedicated professional people, if a little overworked at times.
It's a bit disappointing to see one of the team supporting this sort of thing, as I know that's not the view of the CF staff in general.
I talk from personal experience, I would hazard a guess that you know nothing about the attitudes of the installers working in and around Derry, if you'd seen the state of my driveway once the three of them had finished, you'd probably feel exactly the same way, suck it up.
There is one customer I'm aware of who doesn't like the phone system as the tones may set off a nuclear holocaust if keyed in a certain sequence.
scrotnig
04-11-2004, 21:41
I talk from personal experience, I would hazard a guess that you know nothing about the attitudes of the installers working in and around Derry, if you'd seen the state of my driveway once the three of them had finished, you'd probably feel exactly the same way, suck it up.
Fair comment, but it's wrong to suggest all ntl installers are like that, because they're not. I recently moved house and had a very competent and professional person do my re-installation, and I purposely did NOT tell him I worked for the company, I never do because I want to see the experience from a genuine customer's perspective.
My install was not all that straightforward either...three set top boxes, one phone line with two extension points, and a cable modem.
themelon
08-11-2004, 11:47
You may never have seen BT maintaining anything on your line but are you watching it 24/7?
My mother has never seen anyone maintaining her line that has been there since she had a phone with no dial and an operator answered every call she made.
Most of the infrastructure isn't on the bit of wire you can see from your house or the pole that it is connected to. What about the exchanges and those satellites that carry telephone traffic?
Well its been disconencted for a while now so it doesnt particularly matter.
Either way, chances are you would at least see a BT Van/man up pole or something, but i have literally seen nothing from them in years, you would expect to see them at some point. I certainally dont believe in any way shape or form £10.50 warrants what they do to the average customers line.
Most of BTs money spending goes on exchanges, in my experience you can spend all you like on the exchange but if the line isnt up to scratch, you want get an acceptable service.
What BT Identify as 'the last mile' between you and the exchange or your line, is in fact the biggest bottleneck in BTs system, but intead of replacing lines like mine as and when it is required they prefer just to leave the same 20-30 year old line in place.
slowcoach
11-11-2004, 06:22
Personally, I wouldn't object ... I sit close to our own Guest Relations department so I overhear some stuff. I know exactly how unreasonable and dense a *minority* of people can be. :)
Actually, please do post some 'thick customer' stories if you can ... I need a laugh right now.My best one was when I got a call,
[The Manager] "Hello, I'm the manager of xyz, we have just downloaded your shareware program and we need the password to try it".
[Me] "As stated in the readme file just enter manager for the name and password for the password, once into the program you can change the name and password".
[The Manager] "I have tried that but it doesn't work".
[Me] "p - a - s - s - w - o - r - d"
[The Manager] "I can bloody spell password", - "oh, just a minute", - "yes it's alright now".
[Me] "What was the problem?".
[The Manager] "I had spelt manager wrong".
:rolleyes:
slowcoach
11-11-2004, 06:39
Well its been disconencted for a while now so it doesnt particularly matter.
Either way, chances are you would at least see a BT Van/man up pole or something, but i have literally seen nothing from them in years, you would expect to see them at some point. I certainally dont believe in any way shape or form £10.50 warrants what they do to the average customers line.
Most of BTs money spending goes on exchanges, in my experience you can spend all you like on the exchange but if the line isnt up to scratch, you want get an acceptable service.
What BT Identify as 'the last mile' between you and the exchange or your line, is in fact the biggest bottleneck in BTs system, but intead of replacing lines like mine as and when it is required they prefer just to leave the same 20-30 year old line in place.Prior to ADSL, BT came and replaced the wires from the poles to the houses in this area, unfortunately they didn't replace the old wire running down the outside wall, even though this wire failed twice completely they only cut out the bad bits each time, of course when I wanted to upgrade my ADSL to 1MB earlier this year the line failed. Their loss was NTL's gain.
themelon
11-11-2004, 07:47
Prior to ADSL, BT came and replaced the wires from the poles to the houses in this area, unfortunately they didn't replace the old wire running down the outside wall, even though this wire failed twice completely they only cut out the bad bits each time, of course when I wanted to upgrade my ADSL to 1MB earlier this year the line failed. Their loss was NTL's gain.
Same here NTL gain here too and overall im pretty happy with them, too much noise on my line from BT (the second house ive lived in the same in SOT), too many faults and a not good enough service to rectify the situation.
As long as BT comply with OFCOM regulations to provide a 33 kbs data service, that is all they are entitled to provide, not even a crisp clear quality line.......shocking!
DeadKenny
11-11-2004, 15:08
hopefully BT will be loosing bucket loads of broadband customers to cable soon!
If so, it's just a shame they don't realise what they're letting themselves in for.
There are far more things to consider than just cheaper prices and faster speeds. Those things are the reason why I've quit NTL (and many others have).
P.S. Is it me, or is this site now becoming like what the old nthellworld.com site became? i.e. NTL fan-boy site with mostly fans and NTL staff getting stressed out at anyone who dares to criticise NTL and taking things far too personally? I quit that site over the very one-sided attitude. I thought this was supposed to be independent and just a general Cable site, not an NTL site?
Also, isn't this just a troll thread set up for NTL fans to bash any alternative?
If so, it's just a shame they don't realise what they're letting themselves in for.
There are far more things to consider than just cheaper prices and faster speeds. Those things are the reason why I've quit NTL (and many others have).
P.S. Is it me, or is this site now becoming like what the old nthellworld.com site became? i.e. NTL fan-boy site with mostly fans and NTL staff getting stressed out at anyone who dares to criticise NTL and taking things far too personally? I quit that site over the very one-sided attitude. I thought this was supposed to be independent and just a general Cable site, not an NTL site?
Also, isn't this just a troll thread set up for NTL fans to bash any alternative?
Trolling? I don't think so. All opinions are welcome here. Abuse is not. :)
etccarmageddon
11-11-2004, 16:18
If so, it's just a shame they don't realise what they're letting themselves in for.
There are far more things to consider than just cheaper prices and faster speeds. Those things are the reason why I've quit NTL (and many others have).
it all depends on your own experience. mine in general has been good so I'd recommend NTL over ADSL because the speeds per £ are better. I can also cite many times BT have screwed around with me in the past.
Given the choice, I'd have cable over ADSL any day. The technology just seems to work better. And I've tried both.
slowcoach
11-11-2004, 16:26
If so, it's just a shame they don't realise what they're letting themselves in for.
There are far more things to consider than just cheaper prices and faster speeds. Those things are the reason why I've quit NTL (and many others have).
P.S. Is it me, or is this site now becoming like what the old nthellworld.com site became? i.e. NTL fan-boy site with mostly fans and NTL staff getting stressed out at anyone who dares to criticise NTL and taking things far too personally? I quit that site over the very one-sided attitude. I thought this was supposed to be independent and just a general Cable site, not an NTL site?
Also, isn't this just a troll thread set up for NTL fans to bash any alternative?Although I am only in my first month with NTL I have no complaints so far, the installation team arrived on the dot at 8.00AM, which caught me on the hop :D , two calls to CS have been connected immediately, Internet connection has been reliable and runs at full speed.
If I had been able to upgrade my BT ADSL to 1MB I would never have left BT, I never had any complaints about their service. The things that prompted me to leave were the fact that I was stuck at 512Kbs (dirty line) with no prospect of higher speeds for the foreseeable future and the fact that they were going to reduce my bandwidth by 50% in the New Year.
It's all right saying "There are far more things to consider than just cheaper prices and faster speeds" when you have 2MB ADSL, but when you can only get 512KBs ADSL the attraction of 1.5MB Cable is very tempting. Eventually, after my three months half price subscription ends I will be paying a lot more for cable but I think the benefits far outweigh the extra cost.
It may be that I have just been lucky with my BB so far, or it may well be that both companies service this area particularly well, although I did check with neighbours who had switched to NTL before I signed up and they were all happy with NTL, even so I was still a little apprehensive but I am pleased that my fears have so far been unfounded.
slowcoach
11-11-2004, 16:39
Same here NTL gain here too and overall im pretty happy with them, too much noise on my line from BT (the second house ive lived in the same in SOT), too many faults and a not good enough service to rectify the situation.
As long as BT comply with OFCOM regulations to provide a 33 kbs data service, that is all they are entitled to provide, not even a crisp clear quality line.......shocking!My phone call duration is much shorter now, I don't have to keep saying "Pardon" all the time, I had to switch back to an analogue phone way back 'cause my DECT phone was inaudible to both parties, my phone line was OK for voice calls before I had ADSL installed but after, arghhh.
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