View Full Version : The 1 gb cap
Has ANYONE been restricted in their internet usage by ntl yet?
There's a 1Gb cap??
Sorry, couldn't help myself... :D
Welcome to the site,
I havn't been restricted myself and I doubt anyone else would unless they are a major downloader.
I think maybe a few people have been contacted about there usage but not restricted.
ok, let me rephrase that....
as anyone been contacted by ntl regarding their usage.
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has.
thanks
Originally posted by Andre
All they need to to do is apologise for the major cock up that was the whole cap fiasco, and get on with offering the services that the likes of Telewest are already offering, and most (if not all) ADSL suppliers are too.
indeed andre and get 2mbit rolled out im waiting i have cash :) :D
and ADSL will capitalize on the slow rollout of higher speed services if NTL arent careful they could lose customers and take a 'hit' so to speak in figures
yes .... as u can appricate that is a goal of www.AntiCap.co.uk (as was www.dont-pay-ntl.co.uk) .... to make ntl listen to their customers....admit it was just 1 bad decision and move on.
I, as an ntl customer, have been waiting for them to catch up with other telcos on the bandwidth speed front.... and if this is all thats holding it back, as a customer i wish they would forget all about it and start rolling out faster services.
I just wish they would just stop being stubborn and take it like a man. Sometimes everyone has to admit that they made a mistake, put it down to experience and move on.
more and more people are "getting the internet" just like mobile phones i personally think that ntl tapped onto this and tried to start the ball rolling for starting a pay-as-you-surf service, which would obviously generate a shed load more than a flat rate one.
theres also a new site www.dlfaq.co.uk that has just come about that attempts to open peoples eyes as to what the internet can be used for. Although theres not alot there at the minute, content seems to be getting added daily and already presents several ways to maximise your connection.
Originally posted by moses
i personally think that ntl tapped onto this and tried to start the ball rolling for starting a pay-as-you-surf service, which would obviously generate a shed load more than a flat rate one.
yep i think so too and i was thinking about this in the future pay per mb so if customers stand up and say we wont take this then i belive there will be a hesitence in that style of thinking
orangebird
31-07-2003, 15:56
Originally posted by Andre
Fat chance imo, I don't even think ntl feel that they did cock up in any way. :dozey:
See above. ;)
But are they being stubborn? - as they stated, the cap would not affect the majority of users - and it hasn't. So, they were right. :)
IMO the 'stubborn' ones are those that got so high on their horses and entirely overreacted to the cap, and now they're embarrassed to climb back down....the anti-cap site isn't exactly running hot with hits or posts now, is it? :shrug:
Originally posted by orangebird
IMO the 'stubborn' ones are those that got so high on their horses and entirely overreacted to the cap, and now they're embarrassed to climb back down....the anti-cap site isn't exactly running hot with hits or posts now, is it? :shrug: [/B]
well this is because ntl are not enforcing their cap.
I for one go over the 1gb limit daily and i have not been contacted... and i am one of the people that should be affected.
The only way we would get more hits is if something develops on that front. It would be pointless for us to initiate something just for some action, if no one has been contacted yet. This is why i started this thread.
We're not in it for the hits, my friend, you have us all wrong. We're in in to see that people like ntl dont get away with stuff like this...anymore.
if no one admits to being contacted, then what can we do?
Originally posted by orangebird
IMO the 'stubborn' ones are those that got so high on their horses and entirely overreacted to the cap, and now they're embarrassed to climb back down....the anti-cap site isn't exactly running hot with hits or posts now, is it? :shrug:
any limitation to the service is bad for the consumer i myself am happy with the fixed fee business model the service has been great and NTL are happy i pay them for a service and they provide it well and its for my needs
but for the future if there is a climb down and NTL come up with a variable usage service pay per mb etc it will be a bad day because it would make broadband a very expensive service to have after all im only willing to pay so much for something and im sure other people would too
MovedGoalPosts
31-07-2003, 17:13
Originally posted by Andre
How can you offer a capped 2 meg service?-LMAO!
Er we all thought that about the 1 meg service and even the 600 service before 7th Feb :mad:
The_real_dj
31-07-2003, 17:23
In my opinion the cap is not in place for normal users.
If a user is abusing the system degrading the service for everyone else it would be in NTL's interest to get rid of that customer to keep 10's of customers they were affecting!.
The only way they can do this is by haveing some kind of rule!!. (NTL couldnt turn round a cancle a contract without a valid reason). The cap simply give NTL the legal right to terminate abusers contracts!.
I have recently downloaded 3 versions of linux (about 1-2GB each) over a couple of weeks and they have never contacted me!! :D :D
Why havent i been contacted by NTL?
DU Meter Daily Report
Period (Date) Download Upload Both Directions Dial-Up Time
25/06/2003 876.62 MB 182.00 MB 1.03 GB N/A
26/06/2003 1.55 GB 268.58 MB 1.81 GB N/A
27/06/2003 1.88 GB 383.09 MB 2.25 GB N/A
28/06/2003 1,021.41 MB 262.23 MB 1.25 GB N/A
29/06/2003 1.63 GB 333.83 MB 1.95 GB N/A
30/06/2003 852.35 MB 292.92 MB 1.12 GB N/A
01/07/2003 1.01 GB 570.34 MB 1.56 GB N/A
02/07/2003 882.78 MB 444.57 MB 1.30 GB N/A
03/07/2003 1.50 GB 529.39 MB 2.02 GB N/A
04/07/2003 2.43 GB 1.10 GB 3.53 GB N/A
05/07/2003 1.57 GB 567.19 MB 2.12 GB N/A
06/07/2003 3.10 GB 874.75 MB 3.95 GB N/A
07/07/2003 2.07 GB 572.55 MB 2.63 GB N/A
08/07/2003 2.03 GB 616.20 MB 2.63 GB N/A
09/07/2003 3.70 GB 1.06 GB 4.76 GB N/A
10/07/2003 2.34 GB 660.56 MB 2.99 GB N/A
11/07/2003 2.60 GB 683.74 MB 3.27 GB N/A
12/07/2003 1.78 GB 480.52 MB 2.25 GB N/A
13/07/2003 2.31 GB 665.68 MB 2.96 GB N/A
14/07/2003 1.72 GB 562.94 MB 2.27 GB N/A
15/07/2003 1.83 GB 443.19 MB 2.26 GB N/A
16/07/2003 2.02 GB 485.53 MB 2.50 GB N/A
17/07/2003 1.61 GB 382.25 MB 1.99 GB N/A
18/07/2003 1.66 GB 394.44 MB 2.04 GB N/A
19/07/2003 1.97 GB 499.58 MB 2.46 GB N/A
20/07/2003 2.45 GB 575.35 MB 3.01 GB N/A
21/07/2003 887.19 MB 266.17 MB 1.13 GB N/A
22/07/2003 1.18 GB 309.19 MB 1.48 GB N/A
23/07/2003 1.25 GB 326.10 MB 1.57 GB N/A
24/07/2003 702.20 MB 207.18 MB 909.38 MB N/A
25/07/2003 724.23 MB 242.01 MB 966.24 MB N/A
26/07/2003 1.10 GB 323.88 MB 1.42 GB N/A
27/07/2003 1.64 GB 451.95 MB 2.08 GB N/A
28/07/2003 706.62 MB 217.94 MB 924.56 MB N/A
29/07/2003 992.92 MB 357.09 MB 1.32 GB N/A
30/07/2003 1.60 GB 404.96 MB 2.00 GB N/A
31/07/2003 535.05 MB 128.16 MB 663.21 MB N/A
Only a couple of times have i been UNDER 1 gig
The way i see it, people shouldnt complain that others are taking "there" bandwidth and ping rates, im paying for unlimited 600k/s connection, now to me a cap is a limit, which contrevienes the original agreement i had with NTL, if they plan to act on my "wreckless" downloading, then they can consider the contract void and ill be making my way to DSL, or the company that takes over from NTL when they go bankrupt and get bought out.
as for downloading the whole internet ;-) nearly... i like films, and ive a *hit load on vhs i want on decent quality dvd rip, so i download, not everyone just downloads illegals, tho i must admit to having a few, most of which are out of print, like the wizard of speed and time :(
sorry to hijack the thread back...as much as i'd like to talk about the cap this isnt the place, i was basically making an appeal to anyone who has been contacted, thats all.
there is a whole forum set up to discuss the issue over at www.anticap.co.uk/forum
So has anyone been contacted by ntl regarding their usage?
I have to go with orangebird on this.Do you ask ever Co that ammends their rules to say sorry??.The limit has apparently not been imposed yet.people are openly saying they are ignoring it anyway,so why not let it lie untill someone says they have been warned??,instead of raising the old chestnut when its time to have a go..And NO..I have NO connection with NTL,just do not understand the need to stir for the sake of it...
th'engineer
31-07-2003, 19:35
Originally posted by tabatha
I have to go with orangebird on this.Do you ask ever Co that ammends their rules to say sorry??.The limit has apparently not been imposed yet.people are openly saying they are ignoring it anyway,so why not let it lie untill someone says they have been warned??,instead of raising the old chestnut when its time to have a go..And NO..I have NO connection with NTL,just do not understand the need to stir for the sake of it...
With respect to your post how do you know the limit has not been imposed.
And why not debate the cap is this not an open forum
Originally posted by th'engineer
With respect to your post how do you know the limit has not been imposed.
And why not debate the cap is this not an open forum
Yep, thats what it here for :)
Originally posted by tabatha
have NO connection with NTL,just do not understand the need to stir for the sake of it... [/B]
Thats why i simply asked if anyone had been contacted and nothing else?
MovedGoalPosts
31-07-2003, 20:12
The point here is that ntl created a policy, didnt announce it, felt a massive backlash against the policy, realised they'd bitten off more than they could chew, decided not to do anything in the hope that it'll all go away.
I suspect ntl daren't impliment the policy now, as the whole Broadband market has moved on so far, and will continue to do so, that they have already lost ground to the ADSL market who have higher speeds. Ok so ntl pitch their service at the basic customer (see the Buy ntl channel propoganda) for Faster downloads. They don't want heavy users, but know that to chuck them off will reap a whirlwind.
testcard
31-07-2003, 20:25
Like knowing the name of your local MP,most user are unaware of the cap.
Therefore a 'U' turn in policy would be only seen as such by very few people.
Not having a 2mb opition will be like a supermarket closing at lunchtime............pretty stupid.
Originally posted by testcard
Not having a 2mb opition will be like a supermarket closing at lunchtime............pretty stupid.
i cant believe im going to say this but i agree to encourage takeup and keep there existing subscriber base they must roll it out before its too late........
th'engineer
31-07-2003, 21:29
Originally posted by kronas
i cant believe im going to say this but i agree to encourage takeup and keep there existing subscriber base they must roll it out before its too late........
But they have shot themselves in the foot with the CAP, suppose when MR goodland goes they will remove it
etccarmageddon
31-07-2003, 21:38
Originally posted by th'engineer
But they have shot themselves in the foot with the CAP, suppose when MR goodland goes they will remove it
they're gonna remove the foot?
Originally posted by th'engineer
But they have shot themselves in the foot with the CAP, suppose when MR goodland goes they will remove it
yep the cap is there not being actively enforced dont see the problem in a 2mbit roll out can be done........
whether they will pull there fingers out of there a*ses is another question which is up in the air :D
Lord Nikon
31-07-2003, 21:45
Speaking as someone who has deliberately exceeded the cap since its inception, I think they are leaving it there as a future idea, but definitely NOT enforcing it.
th'engineer
31-07-2003, 21:45
just found this (http://www.totaljobs.com/pgl/corporateprofile.asp?page=jobdetails&Mode=direct&CompanyID=70640&IndustryID=&StartLetter=&EndLetter=&mainPageNo=&JobID=9167897&PageNo=2&PageFrom=CP)
Now this would not be Goodlands Job ,would it :D
Originally posted by th'engineer
just found this (http://www.totaljobs.com/pgl/corporateprofile.asp?page=jobdetails&Mode=direct&CompanyID=70640&IndustryID=&StartLetter=&EndLetter=&mainPageNo=&JobID=9167897&PageNo=2&PageFrom=CP)
Now this would not be Goodlands Job ,would it :D
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
looks like it...........
i could do that job :) ;)
Lord Nikon
31-07-2003, 21:47
If goodland can do that job, ANYONE can lol
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
If goodland can do that job, ANYONE can lol
nah i could turn NTL around :D
th'engineer
31-07-2003, 21:50
Might not be found this in the job spec
Excellent communication skills,
Can not be Goodland
Originally posted by th'engineer
Might not be found this in the job spec
Excellent communication skills,
Can not be Goodland
hold on wasent his job internet technical director ?
Lord Nikon
31-07-2003, 22:11
Hmm.. "Excellent Communication Skills"
This is also a requirement when someone says something you don't like
Lets put kronas to a quick test on this....
Hey Kronas... I think Avril Lavigne is a talentless Bimbo...
Lets see how he handles that :D JUST from the perspective of testing suitability for employment in the position.
[NOTE] Communication skills DOES mean the ability to keep your cool when all around are anything but. If you react adversely to deliberate goading (such as this post) then perhaps it is not the post for you.
MovedGoalPosts
31-07-2003, 22:15
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Lets put kronas to a quick test on this....
Hey Kronas... I think Avril Lavigne is a talentless Bimbo...
Lets see how he handles that :D JUST from the perspective of testing suitability for employment in the position.
I have to say :notopic: and Unnecessary :mad: I really cannot see what that has to do with this thread and hope Kronas chooses to ignore it.
Lord Nikon
31-07-2003, 22:20
Well, where it refers TO topic is kronas saying he could do this job, HOWEVER, I am just interested if he CAN (as I hope) brush it off.
One Thing. I Feel that the appointment to the post SHOULD be an existing NTL customer, so they enter the position KNOWING the way customers feel about the existing service. Why shouldn't it be someone such as you, or I, or kronas?
I feel some fresh blood there would be an EXCELLENT idea.
[edit]
Kronas, this is not, incidentally, an attack on you, merely a question. If someone said something to you in a job that contradicted something you felt strongly about (Such as Avril) COULD you keep your cool long enough to answer civilly?
Example - I worked front line support for a computer company who had less than exemplary records with respect to customer relations, So many people around me on the helldesk lost their tempers when dealing with irate customers.. These people didn't last long in their posts.
Perhaps NTL SHOULD start a dept populated by customers, JUST to give them insight into what customers WANT and EXPECT though, the existing management seem somewhat steered by concepts and ideas formed years ago, and have little or no idea of what people want NOW.
listen 'lord' i can keep my cool under enormous pressures i have done so in the past what happened recently was not forum related......
final say i am very good at communcating with people one on one on issues ........
i only asked if anyone had been contacted...use www.anticap.co.uk/forum u bums!
get ur own threads :)
grum1978
31-07-2003, 23:42
Originally posted by moses
i only asked if anyone had been contacted...use www.anticap.co.uk/forum u bums!
get ur own threads :)
As far as i am aware about 10 people have been contacted because they were downloading abt 10 times the recomended amount every day
MovedGoalPosts
01-08-2003, 00:05
Originally posted by grum1978
As far as i am aware about 10 people have been contacted because they were downloading abt 10 times the recomended amount every day
Interesting.
But if they were downloading that level (I can't imagine what on earth they would do with that much stuff), then ntl would probably have had a good case to argue they were using the service in such a way as to affect others (or however the old AUP was worded).
If it's only 10 ppl the whole cap clause is so totally out of proportion and badly thought out it's unbelievable. :rolleyes:
Lord Nikon
01-08-2003, 00:40
Originally posted by kronas
listen 'lord' i can keep my cool under enormous pressures i have done so in the past what happened recently was not forum related......
final say i am very good at communcating with people one on one on issues ........
:Peaceman: :beer: :wavey: You kept your cool and passed the test I set you..
Nuff Said
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
:Peaceman: :beer: :wavey: You kept your cool and passed the test I set you..
Nuff Said
seriously if you saw me on the .com site and have seen me previously on here i have gone through worse
and dont think i didnt see what you put matey :mad: :p ;)
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
:Peaceman: :beer: :wavey: You kept your cool and passed the test I set you..
Nuff Said
Originally posted by kronas
seriously if you saw me on the .com site and have seen me previously on here i have gone through worse
and dont think i didnt see what you put matey :mad: :p ;)
get a room
Ignition
01-08-2003, 09:10
Originally posted by grum1978
As far as i am aware about 10 people have been contacted because they were downloading abt 10 times the recomended amount every day
Wow - that'll be 10GB a day, downloading @ pretty much 100% on 1Mbit 24/7/52 - quite what anyone can find that's worth having to download that quantity of data is a mystery, but definitely people doing that should have a few words said.
1337_p3t3
01-08-2003, 18:51
From what i have read about the 1gb cap, it only really applies if the service is deteriorating in your area, & you are part of the cause. If you are causing the service to become slow for other users, it is more likely that you will be contacted and asked to reduce the amount of bandwidth used. If the service is fine in your area, it would be unlikely that they would attempt to enforce the cap. Only time will tell, & if they contact me i will post here.
My DU Meter daily report since iv had ntl 600k installed:
Period (Date) Download Upload Both Directions
19/07/2003 1,603,678 KB 393,104 KB 1,996,783 KB
20/07/2003 5,903,639 KB 942,126 KB 6,845,765 KB
21/07/2003 4,327,919 KB 923,914 KB 5,251,833 KB
22/07/2003 3,876,039 KB 928,172 KB 4,804,211 KB
23/07/2003 5,392,199 KB 672,471 KB 6,064,671 KB
24/07/2003 6,004,121 KB 165,296 KB 6,169,418 KB
25/07/2003 2,761,583 KB 81,934 KB 2,843,517 KB
26/07/2003 2,743,719 KB 172,614 KB 2,916,334 KB
27/07/2003 2,865,720 KB 591,938 KB 3,457,657 KB
28/07/2003 5,043,865 KB 762,363 KB 5,806,229 KB
29/07/2003 4,774,934 KB 1,018,944 KB 5,793,878 KB
30/07/2003 4,411,482 KB 1,250,676 KB 5,662,158 KB
31/07/2003 2,689,715 KB 803,196 KB 3,492,912 KB
Lord Nikon
02-08-2003, 00:09
Originally posted by JustAnotherN00b
Wow - that'll be 10GB a day, downloading @ pretty much 100% on 1Mbit 24/7/52 - quite what anyone can find that's worth having to download that quantity of data is a mystery, but definitely people doing that should have a few words said.
The argument people have is that when you subscribe to the 1mbit service you pay for a service capable of delivering 1mbit (120kb/sec) or an approximate max of 11Gb per day.
NTL imposing a 1Gb per day cap limit you to less than 10% of the max you CAN download.
looking at the specs / cap / price I can see why people are upset
150kbit / 1Gb limit / £17 / 100% of the capacity
600kbit / 1Gb limit / £25 / 20% of the capacity
1Mbit / 1Gb limit / £35 / 10% of the capacity
the only change between the tariffs is how fast you can reach the limit.
Still not understand why people oppose the cap?
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Still not understand why people oppose the cap?
speaking from my own view on the cap there is no need for a cap restriction whatever you want to call it
the simple reason its there is to deter high usage customers which it has according to NTL
and i have explained before it means companys can introduce more costly tiers of service pay per mb etc which i am against
darkangel
02-08-2003, 00:51
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
the only change between the tariffs is how fast you can reach the limit. u seem to not have notice the price, if there was to be a real cap(which i can see no sign of) why should i get the same amount of bandwidth as a 150k if i'm on say 1mb.
Originally posted by darkangel
why should i get the same amount of bandwidth as a 150k if i'm on say 1mb.
Give that man a carrott, I would say this is a KEY point in the argument against the cap and the way ntl have made this cap a blanket (it covers everyone, regardless of service). The joke is the more you pay them, the faster service you get, the less ntl say you can use it for.
a while ago I decided to take some statistics from my router regarding my own usage and found it to be (averaged out over months) about 3.5 gb per day. So about 100 gb per month.
http://www.anticap.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=614
Lord Nikon
02-08-2003, 16:41
Sometimes the only way to get people to realise the problem with the cap is to feed them some, but not all the information, let them take the final step for themselves.
Easier to realise something is unfair when you work it out for yourself.
I wish people wouldnt bring up the 150k getting the same data as a 1mbit and it being unfair!
You fools! they'll just keep the 1mbit/1gig cap, and lower 600k to 600mb, 150k to 150mb! ;-)
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Sometimes the only way to get people to realise the problem with the cap is to feed them some, but not all the information, let them take the final step for themselves.
Easier to realise something is unfair when you work it out for yourself.
A very good point.
Being the good natured person that i am, if I thought (by means of actually seeing some kind of proof) that because I was using my connection alot and that was affecting other users, i would probably tone down my own usage without having to be asked.
Because it is being forced upon me is the issue.
If they really want to do it properly they should send out all new contracts with the cap mentioned somewhere in it instead of changing existing ones (are contracts really even contracts now days?) and see how many people sign them.
I certainly wouldnt, even if it costs me abit more than i would have liked to move to another service, i've got principles....unlimited internet means unlimited internet and now i have gotten used to the flat rate, i wouldnt have it any other way.
Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it :devsmoke:
Lord Nikon
03-08-2003, 01:58
Capping is a counterproductive venture anyway....
Think of it...
Someone who maybe downloads a linux distro of 4Gb overnight, trying a few distros gets in trouble for breaking the cap, or rather THINKS he is gonna get in trouble.
So to avoid this he breaks the download down to 1Gb segments. And to make sure he avoids overrunning the cap he only downloads after he gets home from work
Net result - traffic increase AT peak hours and no overruning the cap.
Problem gets worse for NTL...
Smart move really...
Almost as smart as the proposed idea of using remote assist to diagnose connection troubles... DUH!
yes i agree caps are counter productive in many ways.
ntl and isps like them are as much to blame as the goverment for the way that broadband is dealt with. Instead of encouraging people to use the internet (such as voice or video chatting to friends and reletives, children playing online games instead of joyriding cars or as an invaluble aid to a disabled person) they are holding up the process for the sake of business.
As always money usually gets in the way.
I would go as far to say (and theres certainly evidence to support it) that there are probably more people out there who relay on the internet more than they do other services such as TV, Radio or telephone, which as u know a computer can emulate all 3 anyway.
Truth is as time wears on the internet is getting more powerful, we are finding all sorts of uses for it and it is also making the other services obsolete (or in this case offering what they have to offer marely as part of its ever expanding repatoire). If i got a connection I can watch TV, listen to the radio or talk to my mates anyway, why would i want anything else?
The more you learn about it and its uses the more it will become useful to you, this is why i give praise to www.dlfaq.co.uk , it tries to educate people on the internets many uses,
I dont think some of the people who supply it do the internet any justice in the way that its marketed.
Originally posted by moses
I dont think some of the people who supply it do the internet any justice in the way that its marketed.
thats a big fundamental flaw in advertising of broadband services i see adverts and they tell you very little too basic information and not how BB can benefit any person in a number of ways
also there are sections of the public who dont know what broadband is the relative speeds etc
research has shown the above to be true and i have had personal experiance of this
nobody taught me about BB i just picked it up and understood it fairly quickly
Lord Nikon
03-08-2003, 05:51
Lets put it this way....
A company I deal with has 2 offices, one local to me, the other in wales. They communicate with each other using netmeeting.
Faxes are sent from site to site as emails.
Databases are worked on at each site then the data is correlated with PC Sync.
Imagine how all that would work without the net.
The Work they do is keeping pizza places, bars etc running by repairing the equipment in the kitchens, one of the biggest breweries in the country forwards jobs to them by email.
Without the internet the welsh office would close, jobs wouldn't come in etc....
And they have it worse than us... the ISP they use have a 1Gb per month cap.
Originally posted by kronas
also there are sections of the public who dont know what broadband is the relative speeds etc
research has shown the above to be true and i have had personal experiance of this
nobody taught me about BB i just picked it up and understood it fairly quickly
We at anticap totally agree, infact we went as far as emailing our definition the the ASA for consideration.
http://www.anticap.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
it dont just cover the base figures, it also makes suggestions on how advertising Broadband must change, any restrictions in service clearly stated on the contract and information presented in a more understandable (less technical) fashion.
Lord Nikon
Without the internet the welsh office would close, jobs wouldn't come in etc....
It also discusses the internet and its use in creating high speed WANS.
orangebird
04-08-2003, 10:32
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Lets put it this way....
A company I deal with has 2 offices, one local to me, the other in wales. They communicate with each other using netmeeting.
Faxes are sent from site to site as emails.
Databases are worked on at each site then the data is correlated with PC Sync.
Imagine how all that would work without the net.
The Work they do is keeping pizza places, bars etc running by repairing the equipment in the kitchens, one of the biggest breweries in the country forwards jobs to them by email.
Without the internet the welsh office would close, jobs wouldn't come in etc....
And they have it worse than us... the ISP they use have a 1Gb per month cap.
Then it's a good job that the 'cap' only applies to RESIDENTIAL BB access, not BUSINESS bb, eh? :rolleyes:
Bad example.
OK, i was talking with one of my contacts today, and apparently a number of companies complained to NTL over poor service on there cable connections, because of the way there contracts are worded, NTL have to provide a certain level of service, i wasnt told what that level is, however... it makes bad reading when you think that a 1gig cap would ultimately allow NTL business to function at a decent capacity.
I tried to eek out more info but it was a sideline topic and couldnt go on about it all day.
MovedGoalPosts
08-08-2003, 09:48
Originally posted by Dupre
OK, i was talking with one of my contacts today, and apparently a number of companies complained to NTL over poor service on there cable connections, because of the way there contracts are worded, NTL have to provide a certain level of service, i wasnt told what that level is, however... it makes bad reading when you think that a 1gig cap would ultimately allow NTL business to function at a decent capacity.
I tried to eek out more info but it was a sideline topic and couldnt go on about it all day.
hmm be interesting if you do hear anymore of this if you can keep us all updated. A potentially worrying development.
BTW, happy birthday to the cap - six months old yesterday :td:
Originally posted by MovedGoalPosts
They don't want heavy users.........
Damn right they don't, they want the customers that are going to make them the most money, they don't want the have to work for it. Heaven forbid that they ever have to spend on upgrading their systems to cope with the demand.
Ntl want old aunt Mable who logs on every other day to do her shopping and check her e-mails, that way they can double the number of customers on the network for very little extra cost.
I'm sorry but when I signed up I was told it was an UNLIMITED always on connection, not unlimited until the network got congested.:mad:
Originally posted by Lord Nikon
Capping is a counterproductive venture anyway....
Think of it...
Someone who maybe downloads a linux distro of 4Gb overnight, trying a few distros gets in trouble for breaking the cap, or rather THINKS he is gonna get in trouble.
So to avoid this he breaks the download down to 1Gb segments. And to make sure he avoids overrunning the cap he only downloads after he gets home from work
Net result - traffic increase AT peak hours and no overruning the cap.
Problem gets worse for NTL
Good point!
And another thing: how will ntl ever be able to offer faster services with the cap in place? They really are **** thick.
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 22:46
Originally posted by orangebird
Then it's a good job that the 'cap' only applies to RESIDENTIAL BB access, not BUSINESS bb, eh? :rolleyes:
Bad example.
Actually their ISP only offers business level connections and the 1Gb per month DOES apply to them
OK, having read post after post on the cap, and how its not been inforced because its there to scare people into downloading less, ive come to the simple conclusion that unless NTL actually throws people off the service, its pretty much back to sqaure 1, if people know its not actually implemented, like me they'll not curb there habit :-D without fear of recriminations.
my current 2 cents.
th'engineer
31-08-2003, 16:59
The CAP has an effect on all users wheather its enforced now or in the future bandwidth requirements of users are going up not down
Ooops - 2 versions of linux later... :D
26/08/2003 594.99 MB15.56 MB 610.55 MB N/A
27/08/2003 1.09 GB 26.29 MB 1.12 GB N/A
28/08/2003 675.50 MB 32.23 MB 707.74 MB N/A
29/08/2003 2.83 GB 67.14 MB 2.89 GB N/A
30/08/2003 176.67 MB 13.58 MB 190.25 MB N/A
31/08/2003 468.0 KB 143.8 KB 611.7 KB N/A
As you can see I went over on the 29th a little, if I carried on downloading does this count as one overspend from this date or does moving to the 30th count as the 2nd day and everything I did on the 29th count as one in the 14 day period...
th'engineer
01-09-2003, 13:52
For these answers thats why we need clarification on the CAP
Florence
02-09-2003, 10:38
In feel this CAP was NTL's way to get AOL in on the network. We might have then enforcing it when Freeserve join the network.
They refuse to answer anything about the cap. Other internet service providers do follow their T&C and notified their customers about the addition of a fair userâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s policy by email, smaller companies who appreciate their customers.
Will NTL learn people skills and how to respond to the public that in fact pay their wages?
th'engineer
02-09-2003, 19:18
Do not think they can communicate communications company:rolleyes:
th'engineer
12-11-2003, 14:05
they brought the cap in to sell this (http://www.ntlworld.com/broadbandplus/account/registration/not_registered.php)
what cap's this ?
I'm still waiting for my written notice of a change in my service. until I get this, the cap does not legally exsist.
http://www.ntlhome.com/legals/residentialterms.html
26. Changing the Terms and Conditions
we reserve the right to change the terms and conditions of this Agreement and/or the Services which we provide to you as soon as is reasonably practicable by giving written notice to you prior to the changes being introduced
th'engineer
12-11-2003, 16:21
what cap's this ?
I'm still waiting for my written notice of a change in my service. until I get this, the cap does not legally exsist.
http://www.ntlhome.com/legals/residentialterms.html
26. Changing the Terms and Conditions
we reserve the right to change the terms and conditions of this Agreement and/or the Services which we provide to you as soon as is reasonably practicable by giving written notice to you prior to the changes being introducedQuite agree they mis handled it do not think anyone would disagree but if you take into account this new service they are offering most ISPs offer that tservice as part of there normal subscription.
It also makes NTL more expensive than ISP in the same sector
I have not looked very closely at what they are offering but on the surface it appears to be nothing that isn't readily available elsewhere on the net (for free ;))
I also assume that with this new service you are still bound by the same terms and conditions that supposedly limit your data transfer to 1gb.
also worth considering is the fact that now aol is using the same network Ntl are now in competition with the people they rent their own network to LOL does that sound like NTL or what ?
th'engineer
12-11-2003, 17:13
NTL £3.99 for content + £24.99 for service still capped =£28.98
AOL £27.99 good content no Cap
Do they still think the customers are daft looks like another badly planned idea
NTL £3.99 for content + £24.99 for service still capped =£28.98
AOL £27.99 good content no Cap
Do they still think the customers are daft looks like another badly planned idea
that's the only sort of idea NTL have isn't it?, and yes they think we're daft, that can be the only explanation for the way they carry on. the sad truth is though that we are daft enough to put up with it. :banghead:
A friend of mine got his "Letter" today, stating that his usage was being monitored, and he was not to download more than 1 gig a day on threat of having his services resctricted.
i am on the same package (1mb) and download about the same as him, usually 10gig.
so i am expecting mine to arrive soon.
*****ERS!
Graham F
16-02-2004, 20:54
10 gig a day? every day? :eeek:
what you download?!?
Stuartbe
16-02-2004, 21:00
Is it me or is there something about " unlimited access " and " Cap " that does not go together ???? :(
Whay do they think that people want broadband. If all I was to do with my connection is browse web pages then I would have stayed on dial up. !
A friend of mine got his "Letter" today, stating that his usage was being monitored, and he was not to download more than 1 gig a day on threat of having his services resctricted.Would your friend like to scan a copy and post it on here? :)
Stuartbe
16-02-2004, 21:09
Would your friend like to scan a copy and post it on here? :)
Sounds like a good idea - I have yet to see one of these letters !
Ignition
16-02-2004, 23:04
A friend of mine got his "Letter" today, stating that his usage was being monitored, and he was not to download more than 1 gig a day on threat of having his services resctricted.
i am on the same package (1mb) and download about the same as him, usually 10gig.
so i am expecting mine to arrive soon.
*****ERS!
With all due respect your friend has no place on a shared service, and nor do you. When you pay £7000 a year for 1Mbit 24x7 then you can complain. 300GB a month is crazy usage, it probably costs a hell of a lot more to provide the service than you actually pay, and neither you nor your friend can grumble if you are politely asked to calm it down.
Those of you wondering why the net in the UK is so relatively slow compared to a lot of other places, and expensive check http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showpost.php?p=140532&postcount=75 (quoted above) those of more moderate usage you are subsiding those guys, bet you're more than happy to though, aren't you? :confused:
Simple choice really, either tolerate the above and give people 100% performance or close to all the time, give relatively low speeds compared to other places, and charge relatively high prices, or cap and be moaned at like crazy about how unfair it is to limit people's usage, or contend highly so that at peak times performance may suffer considerably from other times. (Yes I know there are those who suffer at peak times anyway, different argument entirely).
That's basically it though, choice is yours really, while the attitude is one of anti-cap and anti-contention, while the 'It's my bandwidth I pay for 1Mbit/600k/512k and that's what I'm going to use' attitude is still prevalent forget progress, it's quite expensive enough supporting the uber leechers on current data rates thanks.
Eventually of course ISPs will probably be charging per GB and those that aren't will offer a very poor service as they'll be overloaded with uber leechers. Course there are those who will disagree, after all bandwidth is free really, isn't it? uBRs aren't that expensive are they? Billions of pounds of cable laying, fibre optics, network infrastructure, mere pittance really? Unlimited bandwidth for all, else some people may actually have to start buying DVDs rather than trip to alt.bin.dvdr or even games rather than go to alt.bin.games, who knows maybe even music rather than alt.bin.mp3. Everyone does a bit of dubious downloading at times, 10GB/day is crazy. IMHO those who want to take the p1ss should pay a p1ss taking price for the privilege and stop being subsidised by other users while nicking unfair amounts of a shared resource.
Not that many things are as communist as the broadband industry in the UK is right now, after all that's basically it isn't it, all putting in the same regardless of what is taken out? Everyone still happy with that, or would those who use less want to maybe do it faster and pay less? You pay for your international calls don't you? What are these if not data going from your telephone providers network to another providers? What you think happens to your internet data?
Anarki, as far as I go you'll get no sympathy from me at all. Believe me if I were anything to do with those departments I'd have terminated your services a long time ago and given you a bill for the last month's bandwidth at market rate nominally of £1 per GB. :) I sincerely hope this is the start of a crack down on those who utterly abuse rather than use the shared resources of the broadband cable network.
Stuartbe
16-02-2004, 23:12
With all due respect your friend has no place on a shared service, and nor do you. When you pay £7000 a year for 1Mbit 24x7 then you can complain. 300GB a month is crazy usage, it probably costs a hell of a lot more to provide the service than you actually pay, and neither you nor your friend can grumble if you are politely asked to calm it down.
Those of you wondering why the net in the UK is so relatively slow compared to a lot of other places, and expensive check http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showpost.php?p=140532&postcount=75 (quoted above) those of more moderate usage you are subsiding those guys, bet you're more than happy to though, aren't you? :confused:
Simple choice really, either tolerate the above and give people 100% performance or close to all the time, give relatively low speeds compared to other places, and charge relatively high prices, or cap and be moaned at like crazy about how unfair it is to limit people's usage, or contend highly so that at peak times performance may suffer considerably from other times. (Yes I know there are those who suffer at peak times anyway, different argument entirely).
That's basically it though, choice is yours really, while the attitude is one of anti-cap and anti-contention, while the 'It's my bandwidth I pay for 1Mbit/600k/512k and that's what I'm going to use' attitude is still prevalent forget progress, it's quite expensive enough supporting the uber leechers on current data rates thanks.
Eventually of course ISPs will probably be charging per GB and those that aren't will offer a very poor service as they'll be overloaded with uber leechers. Course there are those who will disagree, after all bandwidth is free really, isn't it? uBRs aren't that expensive are they? Billions of pounds of cable laying, fibre optics, network infrastructure, mere pittance really? Unlimited bandwidth for all, else some people may actually have to start buying DVDs rather than trip to alt.bin.dvdr or even games rather than go to alt.bin.games, who knows maybe even music rather than alt.bin.mp3. Everyone does a bit of dubious downloading at times, 10GB/day is crazy. IMHO those who want to take the p1ss should pay a p1ss taking price for the privilege and stop being subsidised by other users while nicking unfair amounts of a shared resource.
Not that many things are as communist as the broadband industry in the UK is right now, after all that's basically it isn't it, all putting in the same regardless of what is taken out? Everyone still happy with that, or would those who use less want to maybe do it faster and pay less? You pay for your international calls don't you? What are these if not data going from your telephone providers network to another providers? What you think happens to your internet data?
Anarki, as far as I go you'll get no sympathy from me at all. Believe me if I were anything to do with those departments I'd have terminated your services a long time ago and given you a bill for the last month's bandwidth at market rate nominally of £1 per GB. :) I sincerely hope this is the start of a crack down on those who utterly abuse rather than use the shared resources of the broadband cable network.
I understand that and I agree in part with you m8 - 10 gb a day is way ott.
I still believe that unlimited should be unlimited though.. Its a shame that users cant have the bandwidth they want all the time - I know that the limits of the network come into play....... There are those who would argue that the network should be built to handle every user downloading at max speed all of the time - I know that this cant happen though....
Even an internal gigabit lan cant handle this - Mike flakes sometimes when the vpn clients are active :(
At the end of the day it comes down to judging these users on a user by user basis.
Maybe I'm not getting my sums right, but isn't the max you can get (theoretically) on 1 meg 10.8 gig over a 24 hour period?
Windup perhaps?
Ignition
16-02-2004, 23:25
I understand that and I agree in part with you m8 - 10 gb a day is way ott.
I still believe that unlimited should be unlimited though.. Its a shame that users cant have the bandwidth they want all the time - I know that the limits of the network come into play....... There are those who would argue that the network should be built to handle every user downloading at max speed all of the time - I know that this cant happen though....
At the end of the day it comes down to judging these users on a user by user basis.
Could probably manage it, just highest package would be maybe 30kbit/s download?
Those who would argue that all users should have uncontended bandwidth have no idea of the realities of the connection or bandwidth they rent unfortunately. Those wondering where the 2Mbit service is from ntl, with users downloading 10GB/day on 1Mbit, would you really fancy them downloading 20GB/day for only maybe £15 a month more (at Telewest's pricing levels).
I think I've mentioned all this before though, so won't go over it again. Unlimited as unlimited holds things back, and you can't really say 'ntl should be unlimited' then 'but limit on a user by user basis'.
BT are believed to have a pay per GB product being prepared. If the maximum speed achievable goes up I'll be on that product in a flash (already have DSL, no cable here :( ) whether I'm in the minority or not time will tell, but I'm quite happy to pay £1 per GB at 8Mbit/s :)
Stuartbe
16-02-2004, 23:27
BT are believed to have a pay per GB product being prepared. If the maximum speed achievable goes up I'll be on that product in a flash (already have DSL, no cable here :( ) whether I'm in the minority or not time will tell, but I'm quite happy to pay £1 per GB at 8Mbit/s :)
Sounds good to me - I dont download a lot. I would just like to have speed there when I do download !
Maybe only alowing web and mail during peak times is the answer...
I dont mind p2p users downloading crap loads of data when it is not peak times IE 2-5 am :)
10 gig a day!!! wtf are you downloading??
Stuartbe
16-02-2004, 23:28
10 gig a day!!! wtf are you downloading??
Starts with P and ends in N :D four letters :)
Does that mean I got my sums wrong? (referring to my last post)?
Starts with P and ends in N :D four letters :)
So he's blind by now!!
ntl aren't the only isp to have a cap, many US isp's are bringing in caps cos of people taking the p1ss.
Stuartbe
16-02-2004, 23:34
So he's blind by now!!
:rofl: PMSL................ :D
Stuartbe
16-02-2004, 23:35
Does that mean I got my sums wrong? (referring to my last post)?
That depends - Are you using microsoft calculator ? :D
Ignition
16-02-2004, 23:36
ntl aren't the only isp to have a cap, many US isp's are bringing in caps cos of people taking the p1ss.
Big cable ISPs in the US offering 3Mbit downstream and 384kbit upstream have set their caps around the 30GB a month download and 7.5GB a month upload mark. Some of these are 'guidelines' others are much less flexible.
That depends - Are you using microsoft calculator ? :D
It says Casio fx-82SX ;)
Let me phrase it differently then. Is it possible to download 10 Gig a day on a 1 meg line? Coz if this is pushing the limits, I smell a windup...
Pyromanic
17-02-2004, 00:09
I doubt its a wind-up. Lots of people have access to high speed links that always provide as much data as you want. Over in Sweden, they all seem to have amazing links for the same price as us. A guy I know was saying how he will get 40meg link for 30 pounds a month, all you have to do is swap files with them all day and hey presto, 10 gig a day downloaded. I can easily do 2 gig if I like on 600k, if I get the right hook up. Fact is, I just end up with too many films to watch so usually I stay at 1 gig or so which is quite a generous allowance anyway. Theres a company that does PAYG broadband, 12 pounds base cost for 600k link. Great, except the monthly limit is 200 meg then you pay...... 10 gig a day would be about a grand I think :p
Yes, but the person who posted originally claimed to be on a 1 meg line (which is the top package NTL do). As far as I know, that's roughly 125 KiloBytes per second, or 1 meg in 8 seconds. One Gig (in bytes) would therefore take 8000 seconds (over two hours, as one hour is 3600 seconds). 10 Gig (in Bytes, but the cap is 1 Gig in bytes as well isn't it), would therefore take close to 24 hours.
Unless my sums are wrong, or I'm overlooking something obvious (or both), I don't see someone downloading 10 Gig in 24 hours on a 1 Meg line (essentially maxing out for 24 hours). So, it looks like a windup to me...
Where's th'engineer, he's hot on the old Cap subject :D
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