Any electrician out there ?

[Mike]

Hi there

I have just recived an electrical test report on a property and it states..........

Cooker cable 6.0mm2 at oriein only 2.5mm at destination (possible J/B) also no cooker outlet.

Any ideas what this actually means................?

Thanks

[mrm1]

Hi there

I have just recived an electrical test report on a property and it states..........

Cooker cable 6.0mm2 at oriein only 2.5mm at destination (possible J/B) also no cooker outlet.

Any ideas what this actually means................?

Thanks

basically the origin or start of the cable at the fuse box is 6 square mm (required for high ampage appliances) and at the other end only low ampage cable is visable. There must be a junction box somewhere along the line of the cable. Some one has retrofitted an extension to the high ampage fuse in your fuse box.

If a cooker outlet is to be used the whole cable lenth should be replaced. If the cable finishes at a 13amp socket then the fuse box must be fitted with the appropriate breaker of fuse.

Under no circumstaces should the cable be used as it is. High ampage on 2.5mm cable will over heat the cable and possibly cause a fire. If a 13amp socket is used and a high ampage fuse is fiited to the fuse box, there would be inadiquat protection if there is a fault on any appliance you use, possibly causing an electric shock or again an appliance could overheat if faulty before the fuse or breaker takes effect.

[abailey152]

Absolutely right :tu: And your reply just beat me to it! :D

[Mike]

basically the origin or start of the cable at the fuse box is 6 square mm (required for high ampage appliances) and at the other end only low ampage cable is visable. There must be a junction box somewhere along the line of the cable. Some one has retrofitted an extension to the high ampage fuse in your fuse box.

If a cooker outlet is to be used the whole cable lenth should be replaced. If the cable finishes at a 13amp socket then the fuse box must be fitted with the appropriate breaker of fuse.

This is making sense now (thanks) so does J/B = Joint box. Is the cooker outlet the socket box on the wall ?

What is this..........Some one has retrofitted an extension to the high ampage fuse in your fuse box.

Thanks again

[SMHarman]

What kind of cooker is connected to this?

If this is just an electric oven then current wise, this is likely to be safe, but if an electric hob is involved, the this is dangerous.

2.5mm cable is rated to about 20A, but for safety can only be used to carry 16A (or 32A in a ring).

An all electric cooker should be on a 6mm cable which is rated for use at 32A. This must be connected through a proper cooker switch and outlet, and these must be less than 2 m from the cooker.

Somewhere in your kitchen is a junction box (probably the cooker outlet) which has had the 2.5 mm connected to it to power the cooker.

Conclusion if your cooker is all electric some remediation work needs doing, if your cooker is dual fuel (or gas requiring electric for the spark and clock) you need to establish if that cable has a 13A fuse on it, or change the MCB for a 16A one.

For completeness, other cables you will find around the house are 1mm or 1.5mm which is for lighting, Lighting circuits are usually 6A. and 10mm which is rated to 46A and for electric showers of over 7KW.

[SMHarman]

This is making sense now (thanks) so does J/B = Joint box. Is the cooker outlet the socket box on the wall ?

What is this..........Some one has retrofitted an extension to the high ampage fuse in your fuse box.

Thanks again

The cooker outlet is in two parts, a switch at counter or above level, these used to also have a 13A socket on them too.

An outlet at ground level which would take the heavy duty cooker cable.

[Mike]

What kind of cooker is connected to this?

If this is just an electric oven then current wise, this is likely to be safe, but if an electric hob is involved, the this is dangerous.

2.5mm cable is rated to about 20A, but for safety can only be used to carry 16A (or 32A in a ring).

An all electric cooker should be on a 6mm cable which is rated for use at 32A. This must be connected through a proper cooker switch and outlet, and these must be less than 2 m from the cooker.

Somewhere in your kitchen is a junction box (probably the cooker outlet) which has had the 2.5 mm connected to it to power the cooker.

Conclusion if your cooker is all electric some remediation work needs doing, if your cooker is dual fuel (or gas requiring electric for the spark and clock) you need to establish if that cable has a 13A fuse on it, or change the MCB for a 16A one.

For completeness, other cables you will find around the house are 1mm or 1.5mm which is for lighting, Lighting circuits are usually 6A. and 10mm which is rated to 46A and for electric showers of over 7KW.

It's in a rented house and I think it's actually a gas cooker !!!

[SMHarman]

Then the risk is pretty minimal, the power is for the spark / clock. If you look, you may well find the 13A cable is permanently connected to the cooker, so the wiring is correct!

[abailey152]

This is making sense now (thanks) so does J/B = Joint box. Is the cooker outlet the socket box on the wall ?
A cooker outlet usually consists of a 30 amp double-pole switch at high level and a connection unit lower down. Some cooker switch units have a socket outlet on them also (a socket outlet and a large switch marker Cooker). Have you got anything that resembles this? Or have you got a normal socket outlet?

Whether this is the JB or not depends how it was done. Somewhere there will be a joint where the 6.0mm2 cable is joined to a 2.5mm2 cable. It may well be a proper Joint Box.


What is this..........Some one has retrofitted an extension to the high ampage fuse in your fuse box.

Your cooker circuit is protected with a 30 amp fuse of circuit breaker. This is too large for a 2.5mm2 cable, so if you are running a standard socket outlet off this circuit, and assuming that the joint is okay (i.e. done in a proper safe manner), then the fuse or circuit breaker for this circuit needs reducing to 15 amp (16 amp for an MCB)


Thanks again[/QUOTE]

[Mike]

A cooker outlet usually consists of a 30 amp double-pole switch at high level and a connection unit lower down. Some cooker switch units have a socket outlet on them also (a socket outlet and a large switch marker Cooker). Have you got anything that resembles this? Or have you got a normal socket outlet?

Whether this is the JB or not depends how it was done. Somewhere there will be a joint where the 6.0mm2 cable is joined to a 2.5mm2 cable. It may well be a proper Joint Box.


Your cooker circuit is protected with a 30 amp fuse of circuit breaker. This is too large for a 2.5mm2 cable, so if you are running a standard socket outlet off this circuit, and assuming that the joint is okay (i.e. done in a proper safe manner), then the fuse or circuit breaker for this circuit needs reducing to 15 amp (16 amp for an MCB)


Thanks again[/QUOTE]


I really apprecaite the advice...............want has happen is the house has had various electrical tests over the past 5 years becuase it is a rental house it has always passed but now it has failed because of the items. So do I presume at something someone had changed things for it to now fail.

regards

[abailey152]

Then the risk is pretty minimal, the power is for the spark / clock. If you look, you may well find the 13A cable is permanently connected to the cooker, so the wiring is correct!
Okay, I'm confused now!:erm: 13 amp cable connected to the cooker. Where did that come from? Am I missing something?

If the 2.5mm2 cable is connected to the 6.0mm2 cable and protected by a 30 amp fuse or circuit breaker then either the wiring needs to change of the protection needs to be reduced to 16A. So the wiring is not really correct.

[abailey152]

I really apprecaite the advice...............want has happen is the house has had various electrical tests over the past 5 years becuase it is a rental house it has always passed but now it has failed because of the items. So do I presume at something someone had changed things for it to now fail.

regards
Well, not necessarily. It might be that the last person to inspect the installation has found something the others did not.

What I'm confused about is what is on the end of this circuit. Is it a socket outlet, or a cooker switch with a socket outlet on it?

[Mike]

Well, not necessarily. It might be that the last person to inspect the installation has found something the others did not.

What I'm confused about is what is on the end of this circuit. Is it a socket outlet, or a cooker switch with a socket outlet on it?

From memory I think the gas cooker is just pluged into a normal 13 amp socket on the wall. The old junction box under the unit feeds the washing machine ! :rolleyes:

I really need to go back and have a good look

[abailey152]

From memory I think the gas cooker is just pluged into a normal 13 amp socket on the wall. The old junction box under the unit feeds the washing machine ! :rolleyes:

I really need to go back and have a good look
Oh dear! Sounds like you've got a bit of a mix-up there. I think you probably have a 6.0mm2 cable going to the upper unit and a 2.5mm2 going from there to the washing machine connection.

If this is the case, then to comply, the washing machine connection needs to be a standard 13 amp socket outlet or a fused spur unit. Then, the fuse or circuit breaker in the consumers unit feeding this circuit needs to be reduced to 15 or 16 amp (fuse or MCB). If the top unit is a cooker switch with a socket outlet on it, then I don't think there's necessarily anything against the IEE Regulations per se, but it would grab the attention of anyone inspecting the installation as it is an unusual setup. Perhaps a double socket would be better, then the circuit would just be a standard radial circuit.

Hope this helps.

[Graham]

Pardon me for piggy-backing on this thread, but this reminds me of something I'd like to check.

I like my rooms well lit, so I use 150 Watt bulbs which get used a fair amount especially when I'm working. I'd like to use low energy bulbs instead, but they aren't available with that sort of effective output.

So is it possible/ safe to use eg two 13 Watt (75 Watt equivalent) or three 11 Watt (60 Watt equivalent) in a standard ceiling fitting?

Logically I can't see a problem, but I'd prefer to find out before I stick them in and stand back hoping the whole thing won't go bang!!

[Matth]

If you can use multiple and/or high wattage bulbs, you can certainly use multiple lower wattage CFL's. I've see light fittings in public buildings, loaded with multiple CFL's

You CAN get them up to 120w equivalent - I think that's what I'm running.

[Shaun]

We have 100W equivalant bulbs, I cant remember where they were from , but they're damb bright.

[greencreeper]

I've bought bulbs from this lot before now - http://www.lumin8.co.uk/

My landlord won't do an electrical test despite being told to do so by an electrician who told me that there were a "number of points of concern". He was fitting a new consumer unit and cooker point and wasn't happy with the lack of ring mains and general wiring arrangements. Basically the wiring is ancient and the landlord knows it but knowing something and having a bit of paper saying you know something are two very different things, especially when it comes to fire investigation :D

[abailey152]

Pardon me for piggy-backing on this thread, but this reminds me of something I'd like to check.

I like my rooms well lit, so I use 150 Watt bulbs which get used a fair amount especially when I'm working. I'd like to use low energy bulbs instead, but they aren't available with that sort of effective output.

So is it possible/ safe to use eg two 13 Watt (75 Watt equivalent) or three 11 Watt (60 Watt equivalent) in a standard ceiling fitting?

Logically I can't see a problem, but I'd prefer to find out before I stick them in and stand back hoping the whole thing won't go bang!!You shouldn't have a problem. The rating given on a light fitting is usually there because of how much heat it can withstand. For example, a 100W light bulb gives off more heat than a 60W. As you are using low energy bulbs, you'll find heat is really not an issue.

The cable size in a light fitting is usually well in excess of what is required to carry the rated current of the protective device (5amp fuse or 6amp MCB), so the current taken by the bulbs is not an issue. Besides, low energy bulbs take far less current anyway (e.g. 11 watts = 0.05 amps approx., whereas 60 watts = 0.26 amps approx.).

BTW, if you want an approximate calculation of current for a given load use 4 amps per kilowatt (1000 watts). A more accurate way is to divide the rated power in watts by the voltage of the circuit (P/V). The rated domestic supply voltage being 230v (yes, 230 NOT 240.......those pesky Europeans made us change! :D )