Sky Boxes

[Neil]

Ok....

Here's one for all the Sky peeps out there!

I ordered Sky Dig yesterday (all dealt with by an extremely efficient & knowledgeable chap) & during the order process I was offered a choice of digiboxes. :erm:

I went for a Panasonic one primarily because of the name (the other choices were Grundig or Pace), but also because it's silver!! :D

So what I wanted to know, was what boxes other people have, & is there anything I need to know about this Panasonic box?

Ta

N.

[Nugget]

Hi Neil,

When we first got Sky, we had a Panasonic (yep, in silver) and it was fine. It pretty much looked after itself after a couple of teething problems (it froze twice just after weâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢d had it installed, but Sky did whatever they needed to remotely).

Unfortunately, when we moved last year, the box got damaged (thank God for the Service Agreement!) so we had it replaced. In the first place, we got an old Pace one that was, Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ve got to admit, cr@p and died within a week, so weââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ve now got a Sony one (which, apparently, are very much sought after).

According to the Sky bloke, the best boxes are a toss up between the Sony & Panasonic ones, so sounds like you got a good deal there matey :)

[MadGamer]

I have a Grundig digibox. We've had it for five years now ever since we moved.

[Bifta]

I have one of the newish white Pace boxes, ugly as sin but has never locked up. Used to have the slimline silver Sony one, but it needed power cycling every day.

[skyblueheroes]

Panasonic for me I think. No probs.

Only thing I notice is that if I am flicking through the channels, it can take few seconds for the picture to appear.

[etccarmageddon]

Ok....

Here's one for all the Sky peeps out there!

I ordered Sky Dig yesterday (all dealt with by an extremely efficient & knowledgeable chap) & during the order process I was offered a choice of digiboxes. :erm:

I went for a Panasonic one primarily because of the name (the other choices were Grundig or Pace), but also because it's silver!! :D

So what I wanted to know, was what boxes other people have, & is there anything I need to know about this Panasonic box?

Ta

N.

I have a SKY + box which I think is pace.

[gazzae]

I have a Pace Sky+ box now, before that I had a silver Amstrad box, had it for about a year with no problems.

[DES_1001]

we've got a amstrad mostly black with a silver front,it's been going great for at least 6 years now, never had any problems with it at all. I also run a second coax cable from the spare socket on the back up to the kids bedroom so they can watch their stuff when we're watching normal tv.

[ian@huth]

We have a Sky+ v2 box which is six months old and a Grundig box which is over four years old and never had a problem. We have a further Amstrad box which was used for over 3 years with no problems sat in the cupboard as a spare.

[tkiely]

We have 2, the silver Panasonic downstairs and a Pace minibox upstairs.

Both seem fine, not had any complaints so far. I have seen stuff on the net about overheating probs with the panasonics and people market fans for the cpu as aftermarket fitments. I guess if you are sensible about not blocking the vents on the top it will be ok. It's nowhere like as hot as my ntl boxes used to get!!!

the pace minibox is fab, only 1cm thick and about 15cm wide. Wouldnt have minded two of these, does everything the panasonic does and is almost invisible.

Terry

[Neil]

Thanks all for your input, but I am wondering if I should have got Sky + now?....:erm: :D

[ian@huth]

Thanks all for your input, but I am wondering if I should have got Sky + now?....:erm: :D

You can still change your mind and go for Sky+.

I presume that you have got Sky with FREE install and the Skyworld and family pack (which is normally £40) for £34 for 3 months as is being advertised on the Sky site. You should be able to change your order to Sky+ (cost you £199 for the Sky+ box) or you could add the Sky+ box to your order. If you ADD the Sky+ box you should only pay £199 for the supply and fitting of both boxes and the monthly cost would be £10 dearer for the supply of the mirror subscription for the second box.

[etccarmageddon]

Thanks all for your input, but I am wondering if I should have got Sky + now?....:erm: :D

YES!!!! do it - you can always return the box within a month if you dont like it.

[tkiely]

i would have gone for Sky+ but when i tried to order there was a three mth waiting list!

[Neil]

YES!!!! do it - you can always return the box within a month if you dont like it.

But it's an extra £200.00 ...:Yikes:

[MovedGoalPosts]

But it's an extra £200.00 ...:Yikes:
Its only money - you can't take it with you ;)

[etccarmageddon]

But it's an extra £200.00 ...:Yikes:

I remember the days when people payed that for a decent VCR.... anyway you'll find the £200 hit is soon forgotten after you've spent a few months enjoying the wonders of this machine.

[Neil]

I remember the days when people payed that for a decent VCR.... anyway you'll find the £200 hit is soon forgotten after you've spent a few months enjoying the wonders of this machine.

Ok, so now I want Sky + :rolleyes:

The question is:-Why do I want/need Sky + !? :p:

[etccarmageddon]

because it's the next step in SKY evolution. pause the program you're watching when you go for bog break. record 2 progs at the same time. watch 1 side while recording on another. mark you fav TV shows to record and then click on series link so it always records the next show.

[Chris]

Ok, so now I want Sky + :rolleyes:

The question is:-Why do I want/need Sky + !? :p:
So that while you're watching cr@p on one channel, you can record all the cr@p you're missing on the others ;)

Funny, I barely even use my video recorder any more, but then I wouldn't have time to watch anything I record. Guess that's what family does to you :)

[Neil]

because it's the next step in SKY evolution. pause the program you're watching when you go for bog break. record 2 progs at the same time. watch 1 side while recording on another. mark you fav TV shows to record and then click on series link so it always records the next show.

On the phone to Sky now....... :erm:

[etccarmageddon]

mine cost £199 plus £1 install via an internet order from the sky site.

[Jason1]

Neil worst thing i ever done was didnt go for sky+ at the point of install got given the choice of box & went for the pace as when i worked for as a sky faults engineer they where the least problematic box now i want to upgrade to sky+ have to pay £200.00 for the box and another £50 for install and £10 to move old stb to another room if i done it at point of install would have only had to pay £200.00

[Neil]

Ok, I just rang them, but they want the £199 up front :eek: (not that unreasonable I suppose)

*Dithers around while he makes a decision* :blush:

[etccarmageddon]

unless the rules have changed, you get this on a 30 day trial... so there's no need to dither.

[Neil]

unless the rules have changed, you get this on a 30 day trial... so there's no need to dither.

But I do have to find £200.00 . :erm:

[ian@huth]

But I do have to find £200.00 . :erm:

In my mind it was £200 well spent and I only wish that I had gone for Sky+ earlier. It may cost £200 but how much did your other audio visual equipment cost? It has completely changed the way that I watch TV and I am no longer ruled by broadcasting schedules and having to faff about with the VCR, setting timers, rewinding tapes and watching an inferior quality recording. Go on, spend the £200, it's only money. You could always try to get a discount on the price in return for glowing testimonials for the Sky+ service on your site. :D

[etccarmageddon]

But I do have to find £200.00 . :erm:

spread over the lifetime of the box - that's a good investment. just get on with it...!

[Neil]

spread over the lifetime of the box - that's a good investment. just get on with it...!

Done! :erm: And I have been! :D

Thanks all. :tu:

Out of interest, are there different Sky + boxes, or are they all the same?

All opinions/reviews welcomed! :p:

[gazzae]

I think Amstrad do Sky+ boxes as well as pace, but I think they are pretty much the same, they even look nearly the same.

[skyblueheroes]

I think Amstrad do Sky+ boxes as well as pace, but I think they are pretty much the same, they even look nearly the same.

AFAIK they look the same except that the front is switched (as in left and right).

[etccarmageddon]

Done! :erm: And I have been! :D

Thanks all. :tu:

Out of interest, are there different Sky + boxes, or are they all the same?

All opinions/reviews welcomed! :p:


we look forward to the review you'll be posting when you are up and running - let's hope it's as glowing as the pipex one!

[paulyoung666]

i am still dithering over whether to get sky+ , the wife says i can and i have the money , the thing that is nagging me is why is she saying yes , whats it going to cost me , as for the original q , i have the original pace box and apart from it getting grumpy a few weeks ago it has been fine , i have had more problems with the sodding lnb's :erm: :D :D :D

[Graham]

the wife says i can and i have the money , the thing that is nagging me is why is she saying yes , whats it going to cost me

Probably a HDD full of Big Brother 24/7...! :D

[paulyoung666]

Probably a HDD full of Big Brother 24/7...! :D


no no no no anything but that :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes: :D :D

[Jason1]

if you have not got £200 to pay up front for the box sky offer finance through blackhorse finance total box cost would be 260 but you can spread the payments from 6 months to 3 years

[Neil]

if you have not got £200 to pay up front for the box sky offer finance through blackhorse finance total box cost would be 260 but you can spread the payments from 6 months to 3 years

I paid it up front. :angel:

Thanks to all who posted-I'll let you know how it all goes! ;)

[orangebird]

Ok, so now I want Sky + :rolleyes:

The question is:-Why do I want/need Sky + !? :p:

Because you have no life and a very urgent need to know whats on telly for at least the next seven days, and so desperate are you that you need to be able to record at least another two channels at once, as you have no friends and it'll keep you from buying a budgie and some piano wire.... ;)

[Neil]

Because you have no life and a very urgent need to know whats on telly for at least the next seven days, and so desperate are you that you need to be able to record at least another two channels at once, as you have no friends and it'll keep you from buying a budgie and some piano wire.... ;)

Well yes, that is all obviously true, but I'm not quite sure where the piano wire comes into it? :erm:

[orangebird]

Well yes, that is all obviously true, but I'm not quite sure where the piano wire comes into it? :erm:


The whole post was a joke Neil - the piano wire refers to a Jack Dee sketch... :dozey: :angel:

[ian@huth]

The whole post was a joke Neil - the piano wire refers to a Jack Dee sketch... :dozey: :angel:

Still wondering how the budgie relates to the piano wire especially as you have a little bird as an avatar. :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes:

[orangebird]

Still wondering how the budgie relates to the piano wire especially as you have a little bird as an avatar. :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes:

If you haven'y seen the Jack Dee Duke of York Theatre show, then you won't get it.

Sorry, very :notopic: . Although I am truly bewildered that anyone has a need to know what's happening 7 days ahead, or indeed to record two progs at once. There's enough repeats on telly these days, plus there is also lots to do out of doors to, especially now the weather is nice! :)

[Chris]

plus there is also lots to do out of doors to, especially now the weather is nice! :)
Indeed, I bought my first kite the other week and spent the bank holiday learning how not to crash it into my wife and son. :) Aah, the joys of the great outdoors.

[etccarmageddon]

Neil - have you got an install date yet for your FABULOUS NEW SKY + BOX?

[Ben]

I want Sky + too but its finding the £200 :(

[Mick]

Neil - have you got an install date yet for your FABULOUS NEW SKY + BOX?

If I can recall Neil was getting it installed today.

[aafc01]

So that while you're watching cr@p on one channel, you can record all the cr@p you're missing on the others ;)

Funny, I barely even use my video recorder any more, but then I wouldn't have time to watch anything I record. Guess that's what family does to you :)
That would be the cr@p signal they broadcast then, the one where the sound breaks up and the picture goes into mosaics. On some channels just about all the time. Quite a few channels are simply unwatchable, like a lot of the Sports channels, you know the PREMIUM ones....

Having had sky since 1990 and paid god knows how much money to them, until I can get the same sort of quality signal I get with over the air analogue, ie something you can just simply watch, PAYING £200 for a box just isn't going to happen.

[etccarmageddon]

That would be the cr@p signal they broadcast then, the one where the sound breaks up and the picture goes into mosaics. On some channels just about all the time. Quite a few channels are simply unwatchable, like a lot of the Sports channels, you know the PREMIUM ones....

Having had sky since 1990 and paid god knows how much money to them, until I can get the same sort of quality signal I get with over the air analogue, ie something you can just simply watch, PAYING £200 for a box just isn't going to happen.

sounds like your dish needs re-aligning. my pic and sound is fine and never has the problems you have.

[Neil]

If I can recall Neil was getting it installed today.

Lo all....:wavey:

I'm still offline for a while as I didn't get round to getting Pipex reactivated until today! :dunce:

So-Sky......

The promised phone call from the engineer before 9am occured at 8.45am. :tu: He was polite, cohereant, knowledgeable, & professional on the phone (he was no different when he turned up to do the install either :tu :tu: )

He knew his stuff, & was quite happy to stay with me as long as needed to show the all the workings of Sky +.

All in all the install was first rate, & I cannot fault them in any way, shape, or form.

Sky + is the absolute bees knees IMO! :D It knocks spots of ntl DTV, & it's only once you have paused live TV that you can truly appreciate the gulf that is so apparent between Sky & the cable companies.

It is absolutely 1st rate, the picture is excellent, & the EPG is just as good. :tu:

All in all, I would have tosay that so far the whole experience deserves 10 out of 10, & was a far cry from some of the cretins from ntl I allowed into my house.

If you don't have Sky +, get it now!

Thanks to all who convinced me that it was worth the extra £200, you weren't wrong!

I have seen the future of digital TV, & it's not ntl's ****** poor offering I can tell you!!

N.

[Tricky]

Welcome to the SKY+ users...I'd never go back - No if only you could network the box and get the video onto your PC for burning to DVD

[dilli-theclaw]

sounds like your dish needs re-aligning. my pic and sound is fine and never has the problems you have.
Definately - I've never had these problems either.

[themelon]

Lo all....:wavey:

I'm still offline for a while as I didn't get round to getting Pipex reactivated until today! :dunce:

So-Sky......

The promised phone call from the engineer before 9am occured at 8.45am. :tu: He was polite, cohereant, knowledgeable, & professional on the phone (he was no different when he turned up to do the install either :tu :tu: )

He knew his stuff, & was quite happy to stay with me as long as needed to show the all the workings of Sky +.

All in all the install was first rate, & I cannot fault them in any way, shape, or form.

Sky + is the absolute bees knees IMO! :D It knocks spots of ntl DTV, & it's only once you have paused live TV that you can truly appreciate the gulf that is so apparent between Sky & the cable companies.

It is absolutely 1st rate, the picture is excellent, & the EPG is just as good. :tu:

All in all, I would have tosay that so far the whole experience deserves 10 out of 10, & was a far cry from some of the cretins from ntl I allowed into my house.

If you don't have Sky +, get it now!

Thanks to all who convinced me that it was worth the extra £200, you weren't wrong!

I have seen the future of digital TV, & it's not ntl's ****** poor offering I can tell you!!

N.

All Personal Opinion and luck of the draw of course........

Being an Ex-Sky subscriber of 10 years before trying ntl after moving to a cable area......... I can say there are also plenty of Sky cretins who really screw up your house and fit a system that is utterly unusable.

Sky+ is great if you let television rule your life, which personally is something I will never do. I watch it if im in....if im out im out I aint gonna cry if I miss the latest episode of Corrie. There for me is not enough good stuff on television to warrant splashing out £200 on something to record something that is likely to repeated another 500 times on various channels anyway

For me the last Sky fitting was shocking, the wire still dangles from the outside of my house, the wall still leaked until recently when i managed to bung some silicone in the hole. The wire enters the house about 2 1/2ft off the ground, and a load of brick and ripped wallpaper is still visable.

I had a rubbish blocky picture which persistently went during poor weather conditions, I would call out Sky who duefully charge me £60 and tell me they had realigned my dish which made a difference for a little while. Eventually I find due to corners being cut the 'official' installer decided to use less nuts and bolts which meant the dish could move in the wind.

My experience of NTL engineer, polite on time, asked a choice of cable colours, showed me how to use the basic functions and introduced me to channel ntl which at the time was showing , before leaving he vacumed the dust he made whilst drilling. I look forward to a similar experience when I move in September if im lucky enough to move to a cabled area.

Ive seen the future of digital tv too..........its the one that doesnt go off air when it snows/windy/cloudy......which frankly is the time of year when you need TV the most.

Again its all down to personal preference and experience.

[ian@huth]

All Personal Opinion and luck of the draw of course........

Being an Ex-Sky subscriber of 10 years before trying ntl after moving to a cable area......... I can say there are also plenty of Sky cretins who really screw up your house and fit a system that is utterly unusable.

Sky+ is great if you let television rule your life, which personally is something I will never do. I watch it if im in....if im out im out I aint gonna cry if I miss the latest episode of Corrie. There for me is not enough good stuff on television to warrant splashing out £200 on something to record something that is likely to repeated another 500 times on various channels anyway

For me the last Sky fitting was shocking, the wire still dangles from the outside of my house, the wall still leaked until recently when i managed to bung some silicone in the hole. The wire enters the house about 2 1/2ft off the ground, and a load of brick and ripped wallpaper is still visable.

I had a rubbish blocky picture which persistently went during poor weather conditions, I would call out Sky who duefully charge me £60 and tell me they had realigned my dish which made a difference for a little while. Eventually I find due to corners being cut the 'official' installer decided to use less nuts and bolts which meant the dish could move in the wind.

My experience of NTL engineer, polite on time, asked a choice of cable colours, showed me how to use the basic functions and introduced me to channel ntl which at the time was showing , before leaving he vacumed the dust he made whilst drilling. I look forward to a similar experience when I move in September if im lucky enough to move to a cabled area.

Ive seen the future of digital tv too..........its the one that doesnt go off air when it snows/windy/cloudy......which frankly is the time of year when you need TV the most.

Again its all down to personal preference and experience.


You always seem to appear and try to rubbish Sky whenever someone says anything positive about it, but just stop and think about what you have just said. I, and many others have had a good Sky install and never get the problems you talk about during inclement weather. What is the difference between our experience with Sky and yours?

The answer appears to be that you failed to instruct the Sky engineer that did the installation about your requirements, talking him through where you wanted cable runs, etc, and the let him go, probably signing his documentation to say that you were satisfied with the installation.

Every Sky installation that I have had, and that's a few, the installer has asked me what I want and gone over the installation with me before starting and I have ended up with a very good installation with very good picture quality no matter what the weather. I know that there is always a possibility that you get an installer who is in a hurry and nor bothered about the quality of the installation, but you, the customer should dictate to him exactly what you want and not let him leave until you are absolutely satisfied with everything.

Saying that you had a rubbish blocky picture which went during adverse weather conditions begs me to ask why you put up with this and why you did not get it sorted well before the first 12 months were up.

[themelon]

Well plenty of other people seem to rubbish ntl at every possible opportunity, so its kind of my duty really to get facts straight.....show their are two sides to every story as it were.

Many people have a good Sky install, many have a good ntl install also.

The last installer I had whos mess is still visable inside and outside my house quite frankly didnt care and didnt listen to what I said about routing cables I will have to take some pics. I made many calls to Sky who didnt care and didnt listen. The picture quality I complained about many a time to Customer services, they said it was 'normal' due to digital compression and told me I was wasteing their time and they would start to charge me if I called them out any more.

At the end of the day im just adding another side to the story, Yes Sky can be good I was with them since the analogue days problems only started when things went digital and things in my eyes got worse and worse. But with ntl I have had no problems.

Of course Sky, Sky+ and ntl have many thousands of perfectly happy customers. People on this site seem to forget that the views represented on this site only signify that of a minority.

[Neil]

Ok....

Here's one for all the Sky peeps out there!

I ordered Sky Dig yesterday (all dealt with by an extremely efficient & knowledgeable chap) & during the order process I was offered a choice of digiboxes. :erm:

I went for a Panasonic one primarily because of the name (the other choices were Grundig or Pace), but also because it's silver!! :D

So what I wanted to know, was what boxes other people have, & is there anything I need to know about this Panasonic box?

Ta

N.

Thanks for the red rep for the above post tonight 'themelon', very mature of you. :rolleyes:

Was there really a problem with the post that you couldn't discuss with me? :shrug:

[themelon]

Yes the totally unecessary putting down of ntl at every possibly opportunity and the unwillingness to accept a balance of views and the possibility that some people can recieve a perfectly good service. The promotion of services. I would hazard a guess and say that as a general rule there should be some impartiality and genuine help to the customers in disarray offered by this site and not an attitude of 'ntl are crap, Pipex and Sky+ are best, leave ntl now'

A lot of people are here to offer genuine help and support, yet it seems the best some can offer as a reply is to move providers. I dont really think thats what the site should be about.......but then again who am I to say.

I am willing to dicuss it but didnt fancy much chance of getting any reward from it, as people have been there and done it in the past like Proppin.

Although admittedly I did click on the wrong post to red rep.........DOH

Its most likely time to move on to pastures green and new.

[mdean]

You can still change your mind and go for Sky+.

I presume that you have got Sky with FREE install and the Skyworld and family pack (which is normally £40) for £34 for 3 months as is being advertised on the Sky site. You should be able to change your order to Sky+ (cost you £199 for the Sky+ box) or you could add the Sky+ box to your order. If you ADD the Sky+ box you should only pay £199 for the supply and fitting of both boxes and the monthly cost would be £10 dearer for the supply of the mirror subscription for the second box.
Dont be suckered into propriatory crap Sky + is a scam to lock you into rupe

so dont do it - buy a pvr

[mdean]

Sky + (http://www.sky.com/skyplus/launcher)= DTV as it is meant to be.
Fully working interactive, & no promises of various features 'coming soon'.
Sky + digital Tv which


locks you to rupert
helps fulfil the £400 per sub per year target
spoiling the feed with dots and dogs to get you to waste money on this interactive trash that poor cable viewers are deprived of

Cable and Freeview- DTV which gives the viewer a real choice

[DrAwesome]

Cable and Freeview- DTV which gives the viewer a real choice

unfortunatly without the option of 5.1 DD :)

[ian@huth]

Sky + digital Tv which


locks you to rupert
helps fulfil the £400 per sub per year target
spoiling the feed with dots and dogs to get you to waste money on this interactive trash that poor cable viewers are deprived of

Cable and Freeview- DTV which gives the viewer a real choice

What's wrong with being tied to Sky? It has all the channels I want, some of which are unavailable on cable. It has an interactive system that works now and doesn't cost you a penny for interactive content unless you want it to. Cable also has paid for interactive if you want it with more coming soon. As with everything in life you decide if the product gives you what you want and at a price you are prepared to pay. Sky also leaves you free to choose your telephone service, not forcing a possibly unwanted service on you the same as cable does.

I don't know what you have against Rupert Murdoch he is actually a nice guy, having met him on several occasions. He is one of the few men who helped break the unions stranglehold on the British press which gives you cheaper newspapers. He has done more than anyone to provide the choice of TV channels now available to the British public. What exactly do you think he has done wrong?

[themelon]

Being tied to Sky is actually a bad thing really it destroys viewers choice..........once they have shelled out £200 on a box, even if they recieve crap service they will be less inclined to switch providers due to them ending up with a £200 door stop, they are more likely to sufffer which is exactly what Sky want, people to be tied into a 'contract' until the £200 box dies or devalues sufficiently for it not to matter which is £800 of subs income for Sky if you say a box life on average in 2 years with a subscriber on Sky World (In reality to most people a £200 box should last longer than that, so thats even more than £800 income for Sky)

Cable also now has an Interactive system that works.......certainally on Bromley it works a treat, and im sure this time next year it will be working well on Langley, in fact it already is in a lot of cases.

Also with the Cable Phone Service the basic line rental is now cheaper at £9.50 this allows the use of the best value services like http://www.call18866.co.uk which are now becoming available on Cable due to BT putting all their customers on to option 1.........even if they dont want to use it...meaning CPS and Indirect services look less attractive.......anti competative move by BT not sure how they get away with it. Now would be a good time for ntl to allow more Indirect Providers to use their network.

http://www.mgsuk.co.uk/tvshow.AVI

Im not so sure about the Murdoch ideas either, ive never met him so cant judge him as a person but what he has done is generally bad, Now the gutter press like the Sun can build people up and knock people down, they can also change Public Opinion if someone in government upsets them.....of course some of that is down to the Sheep like behaviour of the majority of the British Public but should the press have the power to make and break careers, win elections and even bring people to their deaths prematurely (in the case of photographic harrasment like Princess Diana)

Also not convinced about providing the channel selection to the British Public, Sky actually do virtually nothing except design software for set top boxes, they use third party uplinks, third party Satellites, the majority of Channels on Satellite are from a third party, UKTV, Flextech, Discovery, BBC, CH4 etc.

Most of the channels on Satellite that are free and not available on Cable are there because Sky dont own the Satellites, The Satellite companies (Eutelsat and SES Astra) are free to rent out space to whoever they wish...........if you were to have a Free DSAT reciever (not even sure if such a thing exists in the UK due to Skys monopoly, I know analogue did) You would still recieve these free extra channels and Free Interactive Services.

I suppose Sky have made sure that live football is only available to those who wish or are able to pay ridiculous amounts for it, they can also pay big bucks for the latest films, and imported series from America as well as producing Ibiza/Greece/Blah Uncovered Brit Drunks abroad programs, and awful low budget drama/soaps like Mile High and Dream Team.

[etccarmageddon]

in my opinion the people who have destroyed "viewers choice" are the people at the top of NTL who bleed it dry and mismanaged it so now they are in a position to be unable to invest in their own PVR solution.

if SKY didnt have their PVR system then there would be less competition and therefore less motivation for NTL and others to come up with their own solutions.

[paulyoung666]

i dont get it , if you choose sky then you are tied to sky but with more choice than ntl will ever provide , sorry i just dont get the argument here :confused:

[gazzae]

I'm very happy to be tied to sky with my lovely Sky+ box.

[Neil]

i dont get it , if you choose sky then you are tied to sky but with more choice than ntl will ever provide , sorry i just dont get the argument here :confused:

There isn't one-'TheMelon' is arguing a point that isn't there (as you have said!)

All said & done-whatever it is that Sky are doing, they are doing it well-interactive works in all parts of the country, & Sky + is an absolute gem.

Neither of which ntl/TW can offer, so there really is no argument/comparison.

[paulyoung666]

There isn't one-'TheMelon' is arguing a point that isn't there (as you have said!)

All said & done-whatever it is that Sky are doing, they are doing it well-interactive works in all parts of the country, & Sky + is an absolute gem.

Neither of which ntl/TW can offer, so there really is no argument/comparison.


i didnt think there was a valid argument , now it has been confirmed , thank you :tu:

[Graham]

There isn't one-'TheMelon' is arguing a point that isn't there (as you have said!)

Sorry, but I think there is a point there. If you're going to fork out £200, you're less likely to chuck the service over later.

Ok, so you can sell it if you want, but a quick look on e-bay suggests their second hand price is around fifty quid.

At least with NTL you get the box for "free" (as much as "free" means anything in this sort of game!)

Frankly, if you ask me, what's *actually* destroying choice is both NTL and Sky's habit of selling "programme packages" because if there's *one* channel you want, you have to buy the *whole* package.

[Neil]

Sorry, but I think there is a point there. If you're going to fork out £200, you're less likely to chuck the service over later. .

You're right-I was just trying to make a point that 'TheMelon' was really comparing apples to oranges. :)

Ok, so you can sell it if you want, but a quick look on e-bay suggests their second hand price is around fifty quid.

Hardly worth the aggro now, let alone in 2 years time!

At least with NTL you get the box for "free" (as much as "free" means anything in this sort of game!)
No such thing as a free lunch is there!?

Frankly, if you ask me, what's *actually* destroying choice is both NTL and Sky's habit of selling "programme packages" because if there's *one* channel you want, you have to buy the *whole* package.

Sky have no control over what ntl/TW bundle as TV packages AFAIK m8-all that happens is that ntl/TW pay a figure for each channel they broadcast (ok so I simplified it a bit, but you get what I mean!)

What happens after that is down to ntl/TW.

[themelon]

There isn't one-'TheMelon' is arguing a point that isn't there (as you have said!)

All said & done-whatever it is that Sky are doing, they are doing it well-interactive works in all parts of the country, & Sky + is an absolute gem.

Neither of which ntl/TW can offer, so there really is no argument/comparison.

There is an argument, why should you be tied to Sky? Especially if you consider the service you are getting to be poor..........believe it or not there are many people who think the service they get from Sky is poor....You get a £200 box and recieve a crap service you are stuck with it, even if you wanted to move to cable or even DTT your Sky+ PVR would be an expensive door stop. Better to get a better product like TiVO and you can use that on any platform Cable, Satellite or DTT.......Of course TiVo naturally failed in the UK, Sky was put in charge of Advertising!! knowing its own product was around the corner it decided to forget about marketing for a while, and save its money for a product which locks users into its own service....exactly what they want. There is no choice thats a bad thing, Skys anti competative dealings and breaking of rules has meant practically all competition has been erased, and they can more or less do what they want.

Lets not forget that Sky have had a massive head start on developing Interactive content. Mainly because they decided to break the original conditions of a Satellite Broadcast licence.

Many years ago I was originally a BSB Subscriber. BSB won the first ever Satellite Multi Channel licence in the UK, the conditions for such a Licence were that broadcasts should be in the superior DMAC Standard, and the broadcasters should use their own Satellites.

The Sky came along, got a licence and some how ignored and got away with ignoring government conditions for a licence, BSB who spent vast amounts of money on their own Satellites and DMAC decoders were in financial trouble.....Along come Sky do away with BSBs superior service and sell off the Satellites within two years.

The Cable companies also fell foul to a bad government idea, franchising, Instead of one national company running the fibre network they had 12 or more small companies running local franchises, these small companies had little capital to start with....spent what the had on networks using low budget components. The companies fell into debt were brough out by bigger companies who took on even larger amounts of debt which has crippled them for many years. Only now slowly but surely they are beginning to sort things out. Ok ntl may have some idiots at the top but most big comapnies do, BT, Sky, British Gas etc.

So essentially Sky is a parasite who rents third part satellite space and uses a third party (ntl:broadcasting) for their uplinks.

[mdean]

I don't know what you have against Rupert Murdoch he is actually a nice guy,:Yikes:

As someone once said (Wimbledon is on)- You cannot be serious. The guy is a monopolistic threat to free trade and democracy who was only too happy to wreck lives to line his own pocket.

A random serch on good ole google produces the following sources which explain it all nice and slow

This one seems the most detailed
http://www.goacom.com/overseas-digest/Media/murdoch.html

this is funniest
http://guerrillacampaign.com/foxgroupsucks.htm

and these are for interest

http://www.bloggerheads.com/bbc/
http://www.alternet.org/story/15949
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Rupert_Murdoch

Nice guy --- my eye

(PS he is so meritocratic the top jobs go to his kids)

[Neil]

There is an argument

Oh good. :)

why should you be tied to Sky? Especially if you consider the service you are getting to be poor..........

You shouldn't-simple as. If the 'service' you are getting from anyone is rubbish, then vote with your feet & go elsewhere. A contract works 2 ways & is also there to protect customers.

I'm sure Sky use the old 'you can't leave as you under a 12 month contract' to lots of people (Orange tried it with me after 5 continual months of foul ups), but you didn't sign for poor service, so you can leave (generically speaking)

believe it or not there are many people who think the service they get from Sky is poor....

I believe it. :)

You get a £200 box and recieve a crap service you are stuck with it

No you're not-see my comment above.

even if you wanted to move to cable or even DTT your Sky+ PVR would be an expensive door stop.
Which they would be refunding me for if the service was not 'as described' or the box 'was not fit for the purpose it was designed for'

Better to get a better product like TiVO and you can use that on any platform Cable, Satellite or DTT.......
And when your Tivo box goes wrong continually?

Of course TiVo naturally failed in the UK, Sky was put in charge of Advertising!! knowing its own product was around the corner it decided to forget about marketing for a while, and save its money for a product which locks users into its own service....exactly what they want.
I don't know enough about the Sky/Tivo scenario, so can't comment.

There is no choice thats a bad thing, Skys anti competative dealings and breaking of rules has meant practically all competition has been erased, and they can more or less do what they want.
Nothing to do with the fact that they simply offer a superior product then?

Lets not forget that Sky have had a massive head start on developing Interactive content. Mainly because they decided to break the original conditions of a Satellite Broadcast licence.
Not forgetting the massive investment that they undertook in their upcoming products.

[mdean]

There is an argument, why should you be tied to Sky? Especially if you consider the service you are getting to be poor..........believe it or not there are many people who think the service they get from Sky is poor....You get a £200 box and recieve a crap service you are stuck with it, even if you wanted to move to cable or even DTT your Sky+ PVR would be an expensive door stop. Better to get a better product like TiVO and you can use that on any platform Cable, Satellite or DTT.......Of course TiVo naturally failed in the UK, Sky was put in charge of Advertising!! knowing its own product was around the corner it decided to forget about marketing for a while, and save its money for a product which locks users into its own service....exactly what they want. There is no choice thats a bad thing, Skys anti competative dealings and breaking of rules has meant practically all competition has been erased, and they can more or less do what they want.

Lets not forget that Sky have had a massive head start on developing Interactive content. Mainly because they decided to break the original conditions of a Satellite Broadcast licence.

Many years ago I was originally a BSB Subscriber. BSB won the first ever Satellite Multi Channel licence in the UK, the conditions for such a Licence were that broadcasts should be in the superior DMAC Standard, and the broadcasters should use their own Satellites.

The Sky came along, got a licence and some how ignored and got away with ignoring government conditions for a licence, BSB who spent vast amounts of money on their own Satellites and DMAC decoders were in financial trouble.....Along come Sky do away with BSBs superior service and sell off the Satellites within two years.

The Cable companies also fell foul to a bad government idea, franchising, Instead of one national company running the fibre network they had 12 or more small companies running local franchises, these small companies had little capital to start with....spent what the had on networks using low budget components. The companies fell into debt were brough out by bigger companies who took on even larger amounts of debt which has crippled them for many years. Only now slowly but surely they are beginning to sort things out. Ok ntl may have some idiots at the top but most big comapnies do, BT, Sky, British Gas etc.

So essentially Sky is a parasite who rents third part satellite space and uses a third party (ntl:broadcasting) for their uplinks.
Totally correct -but the "Oh sky+ is lovely brigade" do not want to hear

[Neil]

Totally correct -but the "Oh sky+ is lovely brigade" do not want to hear

I've heard/read it, but it doesn't change my opinion that Sky/Sky + is superior to cable DTV. :)

[themelon]

I've heard/read it, but it doesn't change my opinion that Sky/Sky + is superior to cable DTV. :)

But of course everyone has different opinions ;)

[Neil]

But of course everyone has different opinions ;)

Correct...

So-in "your opinion", how is cable DTV superior to Sky/Sky +? :angel:

[homealone]

But of course everyone has different opinions ;)

I'm interested in them all, I still have ntl analogue tv and and I'm trying to consider all options, in what will be an inevitable change to digital.

The 'normal' sky vs ntl/telewest debate, aside -

- what really interests me is the possibilities of PVR - the pros & cons of tivo vs sky+, for example. Future plans for Video on Demand have to be factored in, as well.

- and then there are computer solutions, too, I could set up my system to capture like a PVR, if I could be bothered, including program scheduling, favourites, etc - (only for one feed atm, though)

So, as far as I am concerned, on this subject any information, is useful, rather than anything like 'taking sides' :)

[themelon]

In my opinion the Cable TV service I recieve is far superior to the service I recieved when I was with Sky.

Firstly I was a Sky customer for years and they were treating me worse as every year went by. The final straw was when I moved house they turned up made a complete hash of my front room, hole drilled half way up the wall which leaked. I played hell with them to no avail, they then told me I was locked into a contract for 12 months so I decided to stay until then. Then my picture began to break up in anything but perfect weather conditions......called Sky sent an engineer dish fixed until next breeze. It turns out they only fix the dish to the support arm with 2 bolts instead of the four drilled holes. This happend several times I said it wasnt good enough, Sky threatend to charge me if I called them again...I said not my problem. In the end I cancelled and payed the remainder of the contract at the value pack rate.

Called ntl, Installed within a week, choice of colours for cable in front room, neatly pinned to skirting board. I think my TV picture has failed once in nearly 2 years. For a year now I have been recieving good interactive from the BBC with few problems. I am due to move in a few weeks and really hope the house is in a cabled street.

Currently I have no need for Sky+ as in my opinion the majority of TV aint worth recording.......I hardly use my DVDR or VCR now.

[homealone]

In my opinion the Cable TV service I recieve is far superior to the service I recieved when I was with Sky.

thanks, but in my quest for information, please can you say how it is superior?

- better picture? better epg? (digiguide does for me on analogue)

I value your opinion, but will be grateful for any 'filling' :)

[ian@huth]

In my opinion the Cable TV service I recieve is far superior to the service I recieved when I was with Sky.

That is your opinion of the two services and I am sure that there are many others who would agree with you. My own experience is completely the opposite. I consider the move to Sky+ to be the best thing I have done with regards to TV reception and I only wish that I had done it earlier. It may have cost £200 for the Sky+ service but it only costs me £40 per month (I know it is going to £41 later this year but NTL will follow suite in due course) for the full pack with sports and movies rather than £49.50 for less channels with NTL and I would miss Motors TV which is not available on NTL. In two years I will have saved the £200 cost as I don't want or need the NTL phone line. I will have had the many advantages that Sky+ give that nothing else compares with.

One of the main reasons that people have problems with Sky reception (and with many other services) is that they sit there and accept a less than perfect service from the odd installer who is not up to scratch instead of sticking up for their rights and insisting that matters be put right. Your previous posts regarding your Sky experience have indicated that you have been guilty of this.

[themelon]

Personally I prefer the ntl EPG as it doesnt take you away from the viewing and play lift music like on Sky. But I have never really used either I prefer the TV pages!

I prefer the search and Scan on ntl because you can press TV and browse whats on now and next and beyond if necessary, you can then press the 'i' button and recieve a blurb on the current and next programs. The search and Scan on ntl doesnt disappear if you leave it for 5 seconds or so and lose the channel you got too if you dont touch the remote. The reminders are audiable so if you are in another room you can hear when a programme starts.

In my opinion my picture quality on ntl seems better, or certainally its constant. On Sky the picture quality varied, it was great in great weather and would be poor in fog, heavy rain etc and would sometimes lose a signal completely particularly in Ice or Snowy conditions. For me picture quality is important as I have a good TV, and this is where ntl has impressed me.

I also prefer the method of ordering and finding information out about front row movies, instead of using box office which seems very clumbsy using a number of channels and having to scroll through each channel which plays the same film at different time intervals, and having to select the 'i' at the end of the movies start time to find out about the movie. On ntl you select a movie, pick a time, enter a pin, bobs your uncle!!

I also surprisingly perhaps find ntl customer service more helpful and polite than that of Sky who treated me like dirt on numerous occassions, Ok there may be some who are bad but I think they are improving contnually.

I would say Interactive if done properly like the BBC, seems faster on ntl certainally than my Girlfriends Pace Sky Box anyway, I used interactive Wimbledon the other day and expected it to load instantly after hearing how great the Sky Interactive was..........The first time it locked the box, the second time it took an age!! Which doesnt seem to distant to what some people recieve on ntl!!

[themelon]

That is your opinion of the two services and I am sure that there are many others who would agree with you. My own experience is completely the opposite. I consider the move to Sky+ to be the best thing I have done with regards to TV reception and I only wish that I had done it earlier. It may have cost £200 for the Sky+ service but it only costs me £40 per month (I know it is going to £41 later this year but NTL will follow suite in due course) for the full pack with sports and movies rather than £49.50 for less channels with NTL and I would miss Motors TV which is not available on NTL. In two years I will have saved the £200 cost as I don't want or need the NTL phone line. I will have had the many advantages that Sky+ give that nothing else compares with.

One of the main reasons that people have problems with Sky reception (and with many other services) is that they sit there and accept a less than perfect service from the odd installer who is not up to scratch instead of sticking up for their rights and insisting that matters be put right. Your previous posts regarding your Sky experience have indicated that you have been guilty of this.

Everyone has different experiences of course.......I may well be very lucky and apparently Nynex did a good job of cabling the North West.

I did ring Sky on many occassions but there was little I could do int the end but settle the remainder of my contract and cut my losses......they didnt want to come out again, they were going to charge me. I tried complaining to OFCOM who didnt really care either. I think when you have a problem that big there is little that can be done, I had about 6 visits from Sky with different engineers, none of them rectified the situation to a satisfactory standard, I never signed a form to say I accepted the work and Sky didnt really give a monkey about me or my house.

They were probably gald to lose a moaning git like me! ;)

[ian@huth]

There is a lot of talk about the merits of the EPG on NTL and Sky, but to be honest I only use the Sky EPG to mark programs for recording on Sky+ . There are a number of programs that we regularly record but that simply is one visit to the EPG to set up a series link.

There is nothing to beat Digiguide for progam information and that is what I use rather than the EPG. Far better than Sky's 7 day EPG and the pathetic 3 days that NTL give you.

[Paul]

There is nothing to beat Digiguide for progam information and that is what I use rather than the EPG. Far better than Sky's 7 day EPG and the pathetic 3 days that NTL give you.

Hey - something we can agree on ;)

[themelon]

Im not a big fan of EPGs at all.

They are both poor and there are far better things out there like the TV times!!

The 7 days EPG or 3 Days makes no difference to me.......as long as the next few hours are shown and I can view info on each program im happy. Unless you use a PVR I think 3 days is perfectly sufficient for average user.

I also like an EPG that has a mini screen in the Corner which is the reason the ntl EPG has the edge for me............although its a tad small you can still see whats happening if say your waiting for an Advert break to finish or something.

[Graham]

You're right-I was just trying to make a point that 'TheMelon' was really comparing apples to oranges. :)

I don't see why. More like comparing two different types of apples, one type of which has a flavour you don't like.

You don't like NTL? Fine, your opinion. He doesn't like Sky? Fine, his choice.

Personally I'm happy with NTL at the moment. I may change in the future.

No such thing as a free lunch is there!?

First question you should ask when someone offers you something "for free" is to ask "so how much will it really cost me?" [1]

Sky have no control over what ntl/TW bundle as TV packages AFAIK m8

Err, what? Where did I say that they did??? :confused:

The point is that both Sky and NTL bundle channels as part of their packages meaning you may have to effectively pay for a whole load of them to get *one* that you actually want.


[1] NB this does not, of course, apply to companies that offer free leather wrist cuffs...! :angel:

[gazzae]

The search and Scan on ntl doesnt disappear if you leave it for 5 seconds or so and lose the channel you got too if you dont touch the remote.


Thats easy to change on Sky if you want it to appear for longer.

In my opinion my picture quality on ntl seems better, or certainally its constant. On Sky the picture quality varied, it was great in great weather and would be poor in fog, heavy rain etc and would sometimes lose a signal completely particularly in Ice or Snowy conditions. For me picture quality is important as I have a good TV, and this is where ntl has impressed me.

My Sky picture is great all the time, we had high winds and rain the other night and my picture didn't suffer at all. I had NTL before SKy and I can say that the pictures I recieved from both were similar.

[Bifta]

My Sky picture has always been perfect (apart from around 5 seconds outage in over year when there was a MASSIVE hail storm). When I had NTL Digital, the picture kept freezing every hour or so ... I know what I prefer.

[mdean]

Personally I'm happy with NTL at the moment. I may change in the future.

Exactky right sir. You are not boxed in by buying over hyped equipment ie sky+ which is designed to lock you by hardware to the service even if in the future your view of it changes.

I would of thought on a computer forum people would get the idea that open source (like the PC) is a more flexible than a closed sourse solution like sky plus

I am glad like me you will not become another of rupes suckers

[Graham]

I am glad like me you will not become another of rupes suckers

In which case I suggest you re-read the bit where I said "I may change in the future." Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that my switching to it makes me a "sucker".

[ian@huth]

Exactky right sir. You are not boxed in by buying over hyped equipment ie sky+ which is designed to lock you by hardware to the service even if in the future your view of it changes.

I would of thought on a computer forum people would get the idea that open source (like the PC) is a more flexible than a closed sourse solution like sky plus

I am glad like me you will not become another of rupes suckers

I wonder if you were saying the same thing about NTLs cable modems when they first introduced broadband? You had to buy a piece of computer related hardware that locked you into the service even if your view of it changed in the future. :D :D :D

I suppose that you have a NTL phone line which locks you into only using cable broadband and the few telecom providers they allow who give cheap telephone calls.

The only suckers that I can see are the ones who are too blind to recognise the best bit of kit on the market for watching TV.

[themelon]

The only suckers that I can see are the ones who are too blind to recognise the best bit of kit on the market for watching TV.

How exactly does it make television better for me?? Persuade me if im such a 'sucker'! ;)

Baring in mind I am not the least bit interested in recording or pausing the majority of rubbish repeats on 200 channels of repeats these days.

What benefits would it have for the average 'sucker' who prefers to go out whenever possible, who doesnt really care what he/she misses on television (knowing it will probably be repeated another 7 or 8 times on the off chance it was actually any good in the first place!). For those who watch TV as a last resort or during periods when the weather isnt so good.

What exactly does it do that my ntl system or indeed a standard Sky system or even a Freeview box doesnt? (other than record and pause which doesnt interest me)

[gazzae]

How exactly does it make television better for me?? Persuade me if im such a 'sucker'! ;)

Baring in mind I am not the least bit interested in recording or pausing the majority of rubbish repeats on 200 channels of repeats these days.

What benefits would it have for the average 'sucker' who prefers to go out whenever possible, who doesnt really care what he/she misses on television (knowing it will probably be repeated another 7 or 8 times on the off chance it was actually any good in the first place!). For those who watch TV as a last resort or during periods when the weather isnt so good.

What exactly does it do that my ntl system or indeed a standard Sky system or even a Freeview box doesnt? (other than record and pause which doesnt interest me)

Optical out, so if you have a home cinema system you can link it up and get Dolby Digital

[themelon]

Not really too fused about that........as I believe only Sky Movies has Dolby Digital? I have recently cancelled that anyway because its a rip off. Better just to order the films you require when you need them........I am also looking forward to the possibilities of VOD which will hopefully mean I can cancel the majority of garbage and only pay for stuff when I want it.

[Neil]

Not really too fused about that........as I believe only Sky Movies has Dolby Digital? I have recently cancelled that anyway because its a rip off. Better just to order the films you require when you need them........I am also looking forward to the possibilities of VOD which will hopefully mean I can cancel the majority of garbage and only pay for stuff when I want it.

LOL-You've just dismissed the 3 main points of Sky/+ over cable TV!!

Any other advantages that you'd like to try to dismiss? ;)

[ian@huth]

How exactly does it make television better for me?? Persuade me if im such a 'sucker'! ;)

Baring in mind I am not the least bit interested in recording or pausing the majority of rubbish repeats on 200 channels of repeats these days.

What benefits would it have for the average 'sucker' who prefers to go out whenever possible, who doesnt really care what he/she misses on television (knowing it will probably be repeated another 7 or 8 times on the off chance it was actually any good in the first place!). For those who watch TV as a last resort or during periods when the weather isnt so good.

What exactly does it do that my ntl system or indeed a standard Sky system or even a Freeview box doesnt? (other than record and pause which doesnt interest me)

If you are not interested in Sky+ or TV in general you seem to go to great lengths to rubbish them. I doubt that you have actually seen Sky+ in action with your stated thoughts on TV. It's a wonder that you ever had Sky in the first place or have NTL now if you think as you do. What NTL DTV pack do you have by the way?

[themelon]

LOL-You've just dismissed the 3 main points of Sky/+ over cable TV!!

Any other advantages that you'd like to try to dismiss? ;)

Yes but I was just proving the point that iam not a 'sucker'......I just dont need what it offers. I have seen what Sky+ can do and TiVO very nice if you like that kind of thing.

Personally I would opt for an imported TiVO if TV ever improved enough to warrant recording it!

[themelon]

If you are not interested in Sky+ or TV in general you seem to go to great lengths to rubbish them. I doubt that you have actually seen Sky+ in action with your stated thoughts on TV. It's a wonder that you ever had Sky in the first place or have NTL now if you think as you do. What NTL DTV pack do you have by the way?

I like to have a nice selection of Channels for the winter periods when the weather is not so good and in the evenings.

Sometimes there just isnt enough on normal TV 1-5, there is the odd classic comedy or more recent comedy on UK Gold or G2 which is nice, or some interesting stuff on Discovery, music channels and a few other channels which can be interesting if just browsing when bored, I also like the football and occasional movies with the better half! Im not too fussed if im doing something else it doesnt really matter to me whats on TV.

Over the last few years in my opinion television has got worse, When Sky started there were less channels of higher quality, now there are too many low quality channels it is almost getting to the point when I say sod it, Ill get Freeview and not pay any more. But I think ill wait because VOD if done properly could be interesting.......a sort of Pay as You go TV so in the winter i could spend more in the summer less.

Currently I susbscribe to Family Pack and Sky Sports. I cancelled Sky Movies because I watched less than once a week which I didnt consider worthwhile.

[gazzae]

Yes but I was just proving the point that iam not a 'sucker'......I just dont need what it offers. I have seen what Sky+ can do and TiVO very nice if you like that kind of thing.

Personally I would opt for an imported TiVO if TV ever improved enough to warrant recording it!

I've never used Tivo, if I want to record something on sky plus, I just select the program and hit R, how does it work with Tivo though? Does it have its own EPG? Will its EPG automatically update if a program starts late, over runs as the SKy+ one does so you don't miss the program?

[ian@huth]

One of the advantages of Sky+ is that you can record a box office movie and have up to 7 days to watch it at a time convenient to you. You are not restricted to having to watch it at a set time. If you decide not to watch the recording you are not charged for it. When you replay the recording it is at the original broadcast quality resolution.

[SMHarman]

Sky+ has been an on and off topic of conversation in my house over the last few months. Especially as my Mother in Law as the Scientific Atlanta 8000 cable equivilant at home in the US.

In general we've com to the conclusion that with the proliferation of mix, plus1's and multi channel strategies, the need for recording is significantly diminished. If I missed ER on Thursday on E4, I could watch it 1hr later on E4+1 the next night on C4 and on Sunday on E4 and again on E4+1, thats 5 opportunities to see the same show. I find with an infant at home if you record something it generally does not get watched anyway, so forced scheduling is not a bad thing.

So we still have NTL, a faster interface would be nice though.

[ian@huth]

Two of the big advantages of Sky+ for me are the fact that you can time shift your viewing to watch what you like when you like and more importantly you can watch a program from the start without having to wait for it to end and then watch a lower quality VCR recording. Being a F1 fan I regularly arrived home too late for the start of a race and had to wait for the race to finish before rewinding the VCR tape and watching it. Then we got Sky+ and I can watch the race from the start as soon as I get home, setting the start position to 40 minutes or whatever if I don't want to watch the pre race broadcast.

[themelon]

I've never used Tivo, if I want to record something on sky plus, I just select the program and hit R, how does it work with Tivo though? Does it have its own EPG? Will its EPG automatically update if a program starts late, over runs as the SKy+ one does so you don't miss the program?

It does have its own EPG which it downloads every night using an 0800 number, It picks up a 2 week EPG.

Im not sure if it would be possible for it to be updated if programme time changes im not really sure on the detail as ive only really had a play about with it at work.

I particulalry like the way you can give programs 'a thumbs up' or 'thumbs down' and TiVO will record programs it thinks you will like, and generally gets it right.

It learns your viewing habbits so if you watch the football of a certain team it will record all the games for that team unless you tell it not too, Im not sure however what would happen when a football match or tennis over ran.....whether it would learn.......or whether it doesnt stop recording until the program finishies. I know that you can Delay Start recordings early, or add an extra hour or so to football so you dont miss extra time.

You can now also network TiVos and watch recordings around the house.

You can use on line scheduling to set up your TiVO from a remote location

Its pretty good, but still I wouldnt pay anything like £200 for it. Its main bonus is it can be used on any TV Provider around the world even.

Series 2 looks even more impressive, doubt whether it will be available in the UK ever though due to Sky+ which is unfortunate for consumer choice. At $129 (£70) its more in my price range too:

http://www.tivo.com/0.0.asp

[etccarmageddon]

Sky+ has been an on and off topic of conversation in my house over the last few months. Especially as my Mother in Law as the Scientific Atlanta 8000 cable equivilant at home in the US.

In general we've com to the conclusion that with the proliferation of mix, plus1's and multi channel strategies, the need for recording is significantly diminished. If I missed ER on Thursday on E4, I could watch it 1hr later on E4+1 the next night on C4 and on Sunday on E4 and again on E4+1, thats 5 opportunities to see the same show. I find with an infant at home if you record something it generally does not get watched anyway, so forced scheduling is not a bad thing.

So we still have NTL, a faster interface would be nice though.

yeah SKY + isnt for everyone - it's probably only suited to those people who watch TV a lot - ie. already have a video or should have one. or it's suited to those people who like the luxury of it.

for the ocassional TV viewer, SKY + is probably not worth the dosh.