How many will consider changing levels now?

[Florence]

I was just unterested to see how many members now feel the lower package is fast enough for them?

If you are on 1MB soon to be 1.5MB and are a light user would you move to the new 750K ?

Is there any on the 600K soon to be 750K now feel the new 300K is fast enough for what they use?

Would anyone move up from their present level to the next after this press release?

Time for a poll :D

[Lew]

I recently upgraded from the 600Kbps tier to the 1Mbps tier so I certainly won't be changing :D

[aliferste]

Hang on a min......im moving up to 750k? when is this happening?

[Chris]

I won't move down mainly because I upload a lot of photos to our family website. I can just about bear with 128k up, but 64k up on the entry-level service is just a little too much like going back to dial-up for my liking. If it weren't for that, I might have been tempted to experiment with the 300k service just to see if I could get by with it for browsing and occasional downloads.

[Chris]

Hang on a min......im moving up to 750k? when is this happening?
No idea how you managed to miss this thread Ali:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=11564

;) :D

[zovat]

I won't be moving - I send/receive a lot of photos for our website, and the 1.5 will make life easier (especially if I am playing CS when my other half is mailing/uploading pics)...

[Sneck]

Ive recently gone from 150 to 600 and havent noticed much of a difference, its faster on main websites and speedtests, but on P2P its no faster so I will probably go back, even if they dont change it to 300.

[ian@huth]

Ive recently gone from 150 to 600 and havent noticed much of a difference, its faster on main websites and speedtests, but on P2P its no faster so I will probably go back, even if they dont change it to 300.

You should see quite a difference on p2p between 150k and 600k. Have a good look at Robin Walkers site to see where you are going wrong.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/cmtips/index.html

[Chris W]

I won't be moving - I send/receive a lot of photos for our website, and the 1.5 will make life easier (especially if I am playing CS when my other half is mailing/uploading pics)...

upload speeds are not changing though....

[danielf]

I will stick with 600/750 (for now). I don't download much, but I do listen to internet radio a lot, and I think more streaming video is around the corner.

[Sneck]

You should see quite a difference on p2p between 150k and 600k. Have a good look at Robin Walkers site to see where you are going wrong.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/cmtips/index.html
Yeah, Ive looked into it all, Its to do with my upload reaching 100% and bringing my D/ls to the same speed, I need a limiter otherwise Im just wasting money each month.

[DeadKenny]

I'll probably be moving down to 750/128, mainly because I don't like being forced to pay £3 extra (£36 a year) for something I don't want and will be little benefit to me (as of the 1Mbps service, it's mainly the 256k upstream I want).

I don't like being told I'm getting extra for free when I'm not and being told I should be happy to pay that bit more for the extra 500kbps, which although that's all very nice, does not represent a huge difference on a 1Mbps connection given typical use and limits of the Internet (i.e. for downloads, you may get that big download half an hour earlier if you're lucky, but I'm not really that bothered about it). The only benefit beyond slightly quicker downloads I could see is if I had three people using three PCs on my network and I can effectively give each 500kbps.

At the end of the day though £38 is too much to pay (£35 was pushing it as it was). Telewest can do it for £35.

[orangebird]

<nip>Telewest can do it for £35.

If you have another service with them... :)

[dev]

I'll probably be moving down to 750/128, mainly because I don't like being forced to pay £3 extra (£36 a year) for something I don't want and will be little benefit to me (as of the 1Mbps service, it's mainly the 256k upstream I want).

I don't like being told I'm getting extra for free when I'm not and being told I should be happy to pay that bit more for the extra 500kbps, which although that's all very nice, does not represent a huge difference on a 1Mbps connection given typical use and limits of the Internet (i.e. for downloads, you may get that big download half an hour earlier if you're lucky, but I'm not really that bothered about it). The only benefit beyond slightly quicker downloads I could see is if I had three people using three PCs on my network and I can effectively give each 500kbps.

At the end of the day though £38 is too much to pay (£35 was pushing it as it was). Telewest can do it for £35.
the 1mb service is going up to 37.99 anyway so you aren't paying for that extra 500k

[mrm1]

I wont be downgrading. 300k is still too slow for streaming video.

[Marge]

I'm staying on 600/750 (associate rate anyway :tu: )

[seaneeboy]

I'm staying at 150. Was going to go to 500k, but this increase is enough for me!

[Chris]

the 1mb service is going up to 37.99 anyway so you aren't paying for that extra 500kOf course you are. They put the price up first, then annouce the bandwidth increase later, so they can claim the increase is 'free'. Don't be taken in by ntl's PR spin.

If they had no intention of increasing bandwidth, do you really think they would increase the price of their top-tier service by about 4 times the current level of inflation while leaving their entry-level and mid-tier prices unchanged?

Full discussion of this aspect of the price/bandwidth changes is in this thread:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=11564

[orangebird]

Of course you are. They put the price up first, then annouce the bandwidth increase later, so they can claim the increase is 'free'. Don't be taken in by ntl's PR spin.

If they had no intention of increasing bandwidth, do you really think they would increase the price of their top-tier service by about 4 times the current level of inflation while leaving their entry-level and mid-tier prices unchanged?

Full discussion of this aspect of the price/bandwidth changes is in this thread:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=11564

Towny, I thought your views of the speed increase was that it was a reaction to Telewests annoucement? Correct me if I'm wrong of course!

[Hell's Child]

I don't like being told I'm getting extra for free when I'm not and being told I should be happy to pay that bit more for the extra 500kbps, which although that's all very nice, does not represent a huge difference on a 1Mbps connection given typical use and limits of the Internet (i.e. for downloads, you may get that big download half an hour earlier if you're lucky, but I'm not really that bothered about it
So in your case, upload is you big requirement.
However im most cases people have 1mb for downloading, and that half hour quicker will make a big difference.

I don't understand how you can say that a 50% increase in speed

does not represent a huge difference on a 1Mbps connection
I don't like being told I'm getting extra for free when I'm not
The price increase was applied before the increase of speed was, so you had a price increase on your 1mb, now they are offering 500k extra at no extra cost on top of the 1mb connection (which is now 37.99), suppose it's to do with the way you look at it but, if you believe some people who believe ntl followed telewest, then your perception get's blown out of the water as the price increase had been on the cards since Jan, where as the speed increase has been on the cards since early march (so I am led to believe).

Telewest charge £37.99 if you only take broadband off them, so potentially ntl should look at giving a £2 discount to those who take telco off us as well.

[Chris]

Towny, I thought your views of the speed increase was that it was a reaction to Telewests annoucement? Correct me if I'm wrong of course!
That's going off the very narrow topic of this thread - so I answered it in the main BB speed increase thread, here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?p=203082&postcount=278). :)

[Bill C]

Hi

I was not changing anyway been on 1 meg from the start and i am staying on it now :)

[DeadKenny]

If you have another service with them... :)

I have another service with NTL.

I repeat my statement. Telewest can do it for £35.


So in your case, upload is you big requirement.

Yes


However im most cases people have 1mb for downloading, and that half hour quicker will make a big difference.

You're sure the 1Mbps users are mostly downloaders? These are the extreme users of which there is only a small quantity anyway. Someone said 95% of NTL customers are on 150 and 600, so the other 5% are likely to be the extreme bunch who run their own LANs with web servers, video/media streaming, game servers,etc. It's highly likely the 256kbps upstream is more important to them than any other group of NTL users.

Even the extreme downloaders will need 256kbps more than others, as they're most likely using P2P apps, which require a chunk of upstream to get decent downloads, and to do that and be able to surf, you need twice as much upstream.


I don't understand how you can say that a 50% increase in speed does not represent a huge difference on a 1Mbps connection


It doesn't to me at least.

Try and download something like a movie trailer (for example) on 1Mbps. Then try it on 1.5Mbps. Chances are it will stuggle to achieve the max speed even at 1Mbps anyway, but other than that you're probably saving a small amount of time, but it's not going to be staggeringly amazing, not compared to the difference between analogue modem and broadband. In my experience the difference between 600kbps and 1Mbps is not that much. Sure it is on paper, but in practice it doesn't make an amazing difference.

Hell, even at work where we a significantly faster connection, the reality is we only get downloads equivalent to a 1Mbps connection most of the time.


The price increase was applied before the increase of speed was, so you had a price increase on your 1mb, now they are offering 500k extra at no extra cost on top of the 1mb connection (which is now 37.99), suppose it's to do with the way you look at it but, if you believe some people who believe ntl followed telewest, then your perception get's blown out of the water as the price increase had been on the cards since Jan, where as the speed increase has been on the cards since early march (so I am led to believe).


Yeah right, and NTL would have had no chance in applying the increase with no benefit at all given most of the ADSL competition are fighting to reduce prices, not increase them. The price rise and speed increase are definitely linked. Whether that means NTL knew about Telewest's plans back in January, or were planning their own increase anyway, who knows, and who cares.

At the end of the day, as said above, it's spin. The fact is that for 1.5Mbps you will have to pay £3 more than the old 1Mbps service, thus it's not free.



By the way, can we change the poll so the option "Wouldn't change at all?" is split into...

"I'm on 1Mbps, and won't change"
"I'm on 600kbps, and won't change"
"I'm on 150kbps, and won't change"

That way we can see how many of the "Wouldn't change" users are on which tier, otherwise it could be the low numbers on the dropping options could just be down to a low number of users on those tiers by proportion and the "Wouldn't change" users could turn out to be mostly 150kbps users.

[Florence]

y the way, can we change the poll so the option "Wouldn't change at all?" is split into...

"I'm on 1Mbps, and won't change"
"I'm on 600kbps, and won't change"
"I'm on 150kbps, and won't change"

As so many have already posted perhaps a mod or I can total up the speeds from this thread to split it when its closed.

Would all others who vote wouldn't change please also post the speed they are on.

[Paul]

Maybe it would be easier to close this and have a new poll asking which speed people have now - and which they plan to have going forward ?

Something like ;

Plan to have 1.5M
Plan to have 750K
Plan to have 300K
Plan to have None
Currently Have 1.0M
Currently Have 600K
Currently Have 150K
Currently Have None

With two choices allowed.

[SMHarman]

I won't move down mainly because I upload a lot of photos to our family website. I can just about bear with 128k up, but 64k up on the entry-level service is just a little too much like going back to dial-up for my liking. If it weren't for that, I might have been tempted to experiment with the 300k service just to see if I could get by with it for browsing and occasional downloads.

Forgot about that - stay the same then - while 300k download is probably enough, the 64k upload will be painful. My ISDN line will be quicker.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could pick and choose both streams in a menu pricing matrix.

[Florence]

Maybe it would be easier to close this and have a new poll asking which speed people have now - and which they plan to have going forward ?

Something like ;

Plan to have 1.5M
Plan to have 750K
Plan to have 300K
Plan to have None
Currently Have 1.0M
Currently Have 600K
Currently Have 150K
Currently Have None

With two choices allowed.


Some times those who have already voted will not vote again :S

[Tezcatlipoca]

I was just unterested to see how many members now feel the lower package is fast enough for them?

If you are on 1MB soon to be 1.5MB and are a light user would you move to the new 750K ?

Is there any on the 600K soon to be 750K now feel the new 300K is fast enough for what they use?

Would anyone move up from their present level to the next after this press release?

Time for a poll :D

Currently on the 1Mb service...planned on angrily downgrading to the 600k service after the price increase was announced, but didn't get round to it ('cos of my usual lameness).....but now planning on staying on the 1Mb, due to the (upcoming) speed increase to 1.5Mb.

My connection is shared with my housemates' PCs, so more DL is definitely good for me (although I'd prefer a higher upload for gaming).

The £3 increase....I split the bill with the house, so the extra £3 per month is negligible.

[SOSAGES]

id go down but i need the 256 up.

[dave1379]

i agree i dont need 1mb but as i play a lot of xbox live i need the 256 upload to host, i think it sucks that they will charge me more now

[Emperordalek]

I'll be downgrading from 1MB to 750K. The difference between the two is neglible in my book. Even if using p2p you are still governed by your upload speed and the other uploader/s connection. The majority are not on higher speeds as it is. I can't ever remember maxing out my 1MB connection as it is.

Personally would have preferred them to increase the upload speed rather than the download.

[Tristan]

No offence, but if the 256k upload is important to you guys, and you don't really care about download speeds, why not go for ADSL and save yourself a tenner (and more, soon) a month?

[Ramrod]

Personally would have preferred them to increase the upload speed rather than the download.Thats true....well said.
I'll be sticking with my 1mb ntl bb connection :)

[Stop It]

Im definately sticking to 1Mb/1.5Mb.
Mainly because im in a nice little area full of small villages and towns, with hardly any internet usage, meaning i get uber low pings (bbc.co.uk@10ms, 24/7) my downloading goes at 120kB/s nearly all of the time, and im hoping that streaming video becomes more prominant as time goes on.

Im hopeful (probably in vain) that upload speeds get a 50% speed boost too, 384kbs isnt a huge jump, but would enable me to host sven co-op servers with 10-12 people :D

[ian@huth]

Im hopeful (probably in vain) that upload speeds get a 50% speed boost too, 384kbs isnt a huge jump, but would enable me to host sven co-op servers with 10-12 people :D

Whilst a jump in upload speed to 384k may not seem to be a huge jump you have to remember that upload bandwidth is a much scarcer commodity than download and it would only take you and five others like you to try and max out your uploads on your UBR card to bring the download speeds of every user of your upstream card (maybe 200 users) down to a crawl.

[danielf]

Am I the only one that is a little surprised that out of 60 voters only 15% have indicated they will downgrade?

Presumably, the thread was started as the OP felt many people would. I know I kind of expected a higher percentage? (though I will stay at 600/750 myself)

[DeadKenny]

No offence, but if the 256k upload is important to you guys, and you don't really care about download speeds, why not go for ADSL and save yourself a tenner (and more, soon) a month?

Not all of us can get ADSL even in big cities with cable. If the physical route of the cable to the exchange (not direct "as the crow flies") is just that bit too long, BT say no. I know someone who's in this position where the exchange is something like 1km or 2km away, but the cable goes all over the place and is over 5km in length. Being a private road he can't get cable either.

Okay BT are extending the distances again, but in reality most people will get poor speeds way under the 512/256 unless they live well within the 3km limit (as people forget that for longer distances you get RADSL which means the rate adapts to the line quality and contention, so 512/256 is a mythical maximum to them. My parent's ADSL down in Devon gets around 450 downstream max on RADSL).

In my case I don't know if I can get ADSL, but I'm concerned about the antique looking overhead cable connecting to the house that's probably going to give me a heck of a lot of noise on the line. I'd then have to call BT to get a connection and as it's not a reconnection for me (never had BT in this house or the previous house), then it'll probably cost me a packet, plus I'd have to take time off work, and then I cancel the NTL phone, apply for ADSL and hope I get it. Thankfully now I can keep the cable modem whilst this is going on.

At the end of the day, it's a lot of hassle, although I nearly did it a year ago when my cable modem was up and down all the time for almost a year.

Oh, and one saving grace of NTL is their generous AUP which allows us to freely run servers. A lot of ADSL ISPs are more restrictive.

[MovedGoalPosts]

I dunno what I will do. Currently on the 600 service. I do some uploading of email etc, but mostly it's to connect to the office by VPN, to troubleshoot that network out of hours (saves me living at the office 24/7).

Yes I do do some P2P stuff, but a slow upload is less critical for that. Occasionally I look at video streaming, but even now i find that can be unusable due to the inevitable buffering issues.

I'll probably try a downgrade to the 300 service and see what happens. That's if ntl do get round to getting it up and running before I think that financially I'll be better off with Sky, BT and and ADSL ISP.

[SMHarman]

Am I the only one that is a little surprised that out of 60 voters only 15% have indicated they will downgrade?

Presumably, the thread was started as the OP felt many people would. I know I kind of expected a higher percentage? (though I will stay at 600/750 myself)


Actually 13%, once towny pointed out the change in the upload speed I realised I would not be changing products.

[Rone]

Ive got 2 lads gaming in this house, my other half has a mini-business that requires d\loads of clip-art etc, and i game as well.
So the 1 meg spread across 2 pc's is pretty well ok.
Not sure i need the extra 500k, or if its going to be reliable, we shall see.
Not happy about paying more for something i didnt want, so i suppose its a sweetner for the price hike.

[Neil]

In my case I don't know if I can get ADSL, but I'm concerned about the antique looking overhead cable connecting to the house that's probably going to give me a heck of a lot of noise on the line. I'd then have to call BT to get a connection and as it's not a reconnection for me (never had BT in this house or the previous house), then it'll probably cost me a packet, plus I'd have to take time off work, and then I cancel the NTL phone, apply for ADSL and hope I get it. Thankfully now I can keep the cable modem whilst this is going on.

'DK'-What's actually stopping you getting a BT line in? (AFAIK, they charge £75 to connect a 'new' customer)

Either way you will still have an active phone line.

Surely you could get BT to install the line on the proviso that you are only getting it for xDSL (keeping your ntl line in the meantime), & if the BT line then fails their line test as them for your money back?

Surely you've got nothing to lose (I know £75 is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you are that unhappy with ntl, then it would be worth it to find out re xDSL?

[SMHarman]

<snip>
In my case I don't know if I can get ADSL, but I'm concerned about the antique looking overhead cable connecting to the house that's probably going to give me a heck of a lot of noise on the line. I'd then have to call BT to get a connection and as it's not a reconnection for me (never had BT in this house or the previous house), then it'll probably cost me a packet, plus I'd have to take time off work, and then I cancel the NTL phone, apply for ADSL and hope I get it. Thankfully now I can keep the cable modem whilst this is going on.
<snip>

The antique stuff can be some of the best good thick(ish) copper cable. A BT guy mentioned to me the problems they are having in Essex where a lot of the county is cabled with aluminium cable which will not carry DSL at all.

[DeadKenny]

'DK'-What's actually stopping you getting a BT line in? (AFAIK, they charge £75 to connect a 'new' customer)

Either way you will still have an active phone line.

Surely you could get BT to install the line on the proviso that you are only getting it for xDSL (keeping your ntl line in the meantime), & if the BT line then fails their line test as them for your money back?

Surely you've got nothing to lose (I know £75 is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you are that unhappy with ntl, then it would be worth it to find out re xDSL?

Just the £75 and the hassle of getting it sorted really. I should try it out if I can get a guarantee of a refund for the connection fee if it's no good.

I'm not that annoyed with the price increase to make me switch though, I'll just drop a tier that's all. I have to admit that I was thinking about dropping anyway having analysed my use of 1Mbps, but discovering the extra £3 just confirms my choice. I will say I'm more content with NTL than I was a year ago when things were going horribly wrong ;)

[richard_j_green]

NTL have come today to install my 1Mb connection, and am looking forward to using the service since I previously had Freeserve 512Kb/s, but since our house move have had no ADSL or Internet for 2 months.

I have read and my friend who has used NTL 1Mb for 6 months now have read on here that NTL are upgrading the service to 1.5Mb/s, but I am curious about this: Will the upload speed on the service be increasing also, or will it just be the download?

Regards

Richard Green :scratch:

[Paul]

<snip>
Will the upload speed on the service be increasing also, or will it just be the download?

There has been no official announcement on upload speeds - but my guess is that they will up them slightly to match the download speed increases. :)

[DeadKenny]

There has been no official announcement on upload speeds - but my guess is that they will up them slightly to match the download speed increases. :)

The upload speeds will remain as they are. It's more to do with technical reasons supposedly. Telewest's remain the same also.

[Paul]

The upload speeds will remain as they are.
Do you work for NTL and know this for a fact then ? or is this just a guess, as mine is ?

[Neil]

Do you work for NTL and know this for a fact then ? or is this just a guess, as mine is ?

The thing is Pem, ntl (& TW) have announced they are increasing the d/l speeds, they have not announced they are increasing the upload speeds.

I think it's fair to say they won't be changing.

[macuser_e7]

Telewest's aren't changing but they are already at 256.

What are the technical limitations that prevent ntl from offering the same speed?

(apologies if that sounds a bit arsey, but its a genuine question)

[timewarrior2001]

I'm considering downgrading, I stress considering.

Basically the 1Mb service is garbage, it does not offer value for money and its not much better than 600K for web browsing.
I upgraded because I wanted to use XBconnect, Wish I hadnt to be honest, theres a small benefit but nothing I can actually put my finger on.

I'llk leave it and see what NTL do with the 1.5Mb service and make my decision then once I can say I gave it a chance.

[magpie]

Telewest's aren't changing but they are already at 256.

What are the technical limitations that prevent ntl from offering the same speed?

(apologies if that sounds a bit arsey, but its a genuine question)
ntl's upload is already the same as telewest's (150/64, 600/128, 1024/256)

[macuser_e7]

My mistake.

The lesson: think before you post! ;)

[DeadKenny]

Do you work for NTL and know this for a fact then ? or is this just a guess, as mine is ?

It's just that they haven't said they will do it and there's never been any indication of increasing them at any time in their history (nor have Telewest), so unless they say otherwise we can assume it's not going to happen.

The upload levels seem to be fixed amongst cable companies relating to the donload level. There are supposedly technical reasons, or at least people have posted them before but I can't remember what they are though it was something like it's more difficult to offer > 128 for the 600 package than it is for ADSL. Maybe it's bull, I don't know. Could be down to the limited bandwidth on the upstream channels.

It's worth noting that all UK ISPs used fixed levels (I believe) of 64, 128 & 256 for Asymetric broadband systems (including cable). It's just that in the case of ADSL the 512 packages have upload at 256 instead of 128. At 1Mbps they still have 256 however, just like Cable.

[Paul]

The only technical limitation I am aware of is the total bandwidth of an upstream channel. They can configure the CM to any limit they like - but the higher it is - the fewer you can safely put on a single u/s channel.

If I'm wrong then I'm sure an NTL Network Engineer will pop up and tell me .......

[Chrysalis]

cable networks suffer horridly from upstream congestion, providing upstream bandwidth costs ntl more money then providing downstream bandwidth. Then there is marketing, its a second way to get people to use the top tier service.

[DeadKenny]

Then there is marketing, its a second way to get people to use the top tier service.

Yeah, the main reason I'm on 1Mbps is for the 256kbps upstream, but it sucks when 512kbps ADSL get 256kbps upstream :(.

[Neil]

but it sucks when 512kbps ADSL get 256kbps upstream :(.

No it doesn't!! :D

[Pea-Pod]

Why's the Poll closed? Didn't get chance to register my vote, which is "Staying put with 600K and welcoming the extra 150k free increase in d/l speeds" :)

[SMHarman]

Why's the Poll closed? Didn't get chance to register my vote, which is "Staying put with 600K and welcoming the extra 150k free increase in d/l speeds" :)

Because it was a time limited poll. You're too late.

[Paul]

There is no reason for it to be closed - I have re-opened it. :)

[Chrysalis]

I voted, the poll isn't balanced tho, for those that are not upgrading or downgrading it should show 3 options so we know exactly how many on the top tier aren't downgrading.