NTL caught out well and truly and its costing them

[NitroNutter]

quick referal to my previous thread, where did I mention I needed help?? you really foxed me there
Iv hammered several firms as big and bigger for breakfast no lawers nuffin never needed them and iv only ever had to enter a civil court room once in my life, which was so brief a brief wouldv missed it.

Litttle more referal to the other thread
Chapter 11 lets hope they dont return there cuz they may not get out next time.
And more
Stealing services, lmao nice accusation mr Hell whatever but err dont you have to take without paying to steal?
well 1 Iv never taken and 2 iv allways paid. As I said Iv been with cable well before NTL so I have never had a contract with NTL, NTL have never contracted me on additional services and theyve never given me written notification of terms of service which I know are different to my old cable provider who NTL took over from. So if thats me stealing then youd better lock me up or perhaps you should shout at some NTL staff for fasiling to provide the Paperwork. As for you accept there product you accept there terms. wrong you cannot be bound by a contract that has never been seen signed or any services terms failed to be supplied.
and lastly on the other thread
TElephone tv and modem is all together, wrong yet again, you obviously havnt been with cable as long as me, My telephone is a completely seperate bill, including its envelope, my cable tv and modem are on the same bill.
Ok now onto PANTS down NTL

MY main discrepencie has occured because yes as I said NTL have changed their Billing procedure.
where as You would pay sometime in the 1st week or 2 for the month I now get billed 3 weeks prior to the end of the month meaning NTL are now expecting me to pay, no not the month ahead but 3 weeks ahead of the month ahead.
Further to this there is now a distinct difference between non DD customers and DD where non DD are obviously the trash.
A DD customer has funds taken out 7 days after the statement date making them pay 2 weeks in advance of the month in advance. However non DD your payment is due statement date no ifs no buts even tho its 3 weeks in advance of the service your going to get. Not only that its due a week before you get the bill even as they send out 2nd class and this includes the phone bill side aswell which is an unknown entity till the bill arrives. So to sum this up we have to pay on the nose 3 weeks before the next service period starts including an unknown entity. Lovely eh Im am absolutly damn sure this billing method and moneys due is illegal. And to top it off they are more than just discriminating against non DD customers by adding a small fee now as a non DD your payment is to be paid the day they print the statement where as DD get 7 days till funds are taken from their account. YES this is discrimination.

So NTL are now paying this has cost them, its one thing to charge for the motnh ahead but to make me suffer this discrimination ant to pay 3 weeks ahead of the month ahead is indeed out of order.
Moving telephone to BT asap cast 1 40£ a month
Cost 2 tv upgrade to sky news only £5
Cost 3 cable modem down graded to 600k from 1Mb 10£.
Only reason im keeping cable modem is cause I really dont like the sound of adsl but adsl is cheaper so if needs must then a adsl router will not be that much of a hardship to change too.

The end

and PS: Im sure if you really need to know what the old thread was about it was closed for 2 words which I cant repeat else this thread may get closed aswell, im sure if you really want to read it you can either search or ask and some1 may give the thread link.
But im expected to trust this company NTL with A DD open line to all my funds, I think not.

[Neil]

'NN'

I really feel for you-I know just how mad ntl can make you with their sheer innefficiency. :afire:

The thing is-you need the help, & we want to give it to you, but please try to remember that we are not ntl here (don't know if you knew that?)

We fund/run this site totally independantly for people (like you) to get help that they don't get from ntl.

Everyone is welcome here, just don't shoot the messenger ok? :)

[andygrif]

Agreed.

NN...a word to the wise....there's a wealth of information on this site (which as Neil says is not owned by ntl...the old dot com was owned by ntl, but this is not).

There's a whole bunch of people here who might just want to help you, if you calmed down, explained the problem and were not slinging mud before at least giving them the opportunity.

Here you will find customers, ntl employees from many different areas (who by the way offer to help people off their own backs, no-one at ntl is making them) and some pretty knowledgable mods too.

Give them the chance to help, and you might just be surprised as to what they can achieve for you. Bite off their heads and you won't be surprised to learn that no-one will bother.

[NitroNutter]

HEHE well forget the mud slinging, tho i really feel I was not the one to start it. And as someone accused me of stealing I think I had the right to speak my piece on that. also someone categorically stated my bill is all in one. Thats maybe how the new bills are laid out for newer customers but im an old customer and my bill even today is old style
Telephone in one envelope, cable in another. well was ;)

anyway like i said forget the past my main point here are 2 things
NTL have started charging 3 weeks in advance of the month in advance since there recent billing change 2 months ago
in other words I recieved a bill on the 8th of march printed the 1st and then I got the next bill due to there new billing system on the 17th of march printed the 10th. of course here the payment made doesnt show makng me look very poorly in arrears but infact I am not as they have brought forward the due date by 3 weeks. your current due date in NTL's latest billing administartion change is not due at the beggining of the month but 3 weeks prior to the beggining of the motnh.
Again as I said dd statement date is the 10th, funds removed from bank should be the 17th. but non DD have to pay on the 10th and this includes the telephone of which you cannot know how much to pay as the bill is sent 2nd class it will not arrive till about 7 days after post date. this is discrimination over and above the 2 extra fee for non DD
Im fairly certain that a bill cannot be due till its potential arrival date or even reciept and as NTL have a system where you cant request a replacement bill if the first shoundt arrive till 30 days after the print of the first copy. Im not way in arrears like it would appear because theyve brought forward the due date by 3 weeks. thats not my fault thats theres.

BT phone is coming in a week they were very good. they are going to take a fixed monthly ammount, if we go over it then we will be notified and can pay the extra by phone. to boot the evening weekend is cheeper than NTL's phone. Im not sure and maybe wrong here but I think they take the fixed fee at the end of the month not before, whatever there system is very flexible and we can increase the fixed payment if we want and it is nessecary.
That has saved me money and cost NTL £30 a month minimum.
Kids play PS" and outside more than watch cartoon network so I dropped the analog tv to terrestial only, and because i really disagree with this new charging system by NTL. Thats another £4.50 down NTL's toilet. :)
and further to my disagreement with this new billing system iv dropped my cable modem from 1Mb to 600k, not quite ready to make a full jump out of ntl, as i need to look into router etc plus what adsl packages are about and who is good to supply adsl.
My average NTL bills monthly mounted to 70-75£ that has dropped to 25£, and iv lost nothing.

Ok back to the mud slinging if we are all prepared to forget the last week great thats cool with me, the tone of my posts were not really directed at anyone here. but at NTL, if NTL have no affiliation at all with this forum then that is my mistake, I was used to the last forum which NTL bamboozeled and then closed.
still have to agree now with the NTHELL name, its of my opinion NTL have took large stakes in what used to be great cable services supplied by small firms and turned it into Cablehell.

well peace out all and laters, and I will be looking into ntl's new billing policy in a legal manner and I will let you know what I come up with.
As for my legal skills nothings perfect but I did for sure defeat a big mobile phone firm (when there was only 2 around) with some simple photo copies and a letter to the court, And way bigger I have defeated a division of what was one of the biggest record companies in the country on a contract dispute, that division was wound up within one month of this defeat.

[Neil]

:welcome: back NN. ;)

[NitroNutter]

Ok well ofcom were very friendly, the rep I spoke to there did not like this new practice of NTL's. It seemed He was in personal agreeance that theres no way a print date can be the due date especially if a bill is despatched second class, and cant understand why a DD customer gets a 7 day grace period from due date but non DD is due print date. Of course personal opinion isnt legal opinion so I shall have to wait a few days now to see, what the outcome is.
As for the in advance well of course they can fee you quartely in advance if they so desire, upto you if your prepared to accept that. I was not notified as to this change in a specific manner, just had a vague mailshot saying they are making some billing changes. Personally I feel 7 weeks in advance is too much of a ****take.
So to anyone else who is suffering through this print date is due date or we dont want you as our customer, firstly give NTL a call voice your opinion. If you get no joy theres allways ofcom
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/contact_ofcom/tel_issues/
and theres allways BT for your phone :) BT phone is cheeper than ntl not by much but it is cheeper.

[Hell's Child]

Firstly I couldn't reply without mentioning the previous post.

Numberous people did try and help and got nothing but abuse back.

I asked you a few questions with a view to helping you, and I will ask them again.

have you tried to ring the billing Dept? They may be able to sort something out for you?
Why, if your not happy with dd, not pay by Credit/debit card the day the bill appears in your house, if ntl take the money out on a card the money is put onto your account within 5 working days, I can vousch for that working here n all?? That way the bill is paid, you don't get reminder letters and ntl get paid. Everyone is happy.

If you are unhappy with the service, speak to faults/c.support about it. If it is that bad, go to another supplier. I work for ntl, but from a customer point of view, if the service is consistently crap, the company in question looses my custom. I am not saying you have to, but if it's causing you as much grief as you make out, then leave and the problems will stop. This seems, from my point of view, the best option for you if you have tried all avaliable paths.

[andygrif]

NTL have started charging 3 weeks in advance of the month in advance since there recent billing change 2 months ago
in other words I recieved a bill on the 8th of march printed the 1st and then I got the next bill due to there new billing system on the 17th of march printed the 10th. of course here the payment made doesnt show makng me look very poorly in arrears but infact I am not as they have brought forward the due date by 3 weeks. your current due date in NTL's latest billing administartion change is not due at the beggining of the month but 3 weeks prior to the beggining of the motnh..

As far as I know, I have always paid for ntl one month in advance, except for call charges (or anything I added during that month) which is then applied to my account ont he following invoice.

For example, if my billing dates ran from 20/4/04 to 19/5/04 then I would be billed today for that period and the calls made during that time would be charged on the bill starting on the 20/5/04.

I guess there are differences between when different methods of payment will need to make their actual payments, but like they say, everything comes out in the wash...we're all paying the same at the end of the day (apart from the £1 extra you'd be paying for not having DD).

Also, it's worth noticing that once you get the DD set up with NTL (and believe me that can be a major milestone in itself!) then you generally don't have any problems with them - it's all taken care of, and as long as you check your invoices and bank statements to make sure then you shouldn't really have any problems. And if you do, then the DD guarantee will cover you.

[NitroNutter]

well thats not how it is anymore.
-----------------------------------
statement date 29th Feb
Billing period 1 mar- 31st mar
Note here statement date is 1 day before new billing period
This is how it allways used to be.
----------------------------------
Now we get the new billing system
Statement date 10 Mar note bill printed 10 days after last bill
Billing period 1 apr - 30 apr
note my statement date has jumped forwards 3 weeks and as a non DD customer I have no 7 days to pay the bill that will not arrive for about 7 days as its second class.
my latest bill follows on the same
statement date 10th april
billing period 1 may - 31 may
------------------------------
again no 7 days to pay it like DD customers get as there dd day is 17th.
Now you can clearly see im being billed 3 weeks in advance of the billing period with no time permitted for the bill to be posted recieved so we know how much we have to pay.
I could of course pay the cable bill before as I know how much that is, but as its so hard to get thru to NTL a lot of the time we pay both at once, when we know how much we actually owe.
The new phone bills statement date and print dates are the same as the cable statements.

[andygrif]

well thats not how it is anymore.
-----------------------------------
statement date 29th Feb
Billing period 1 mar- 31st mar
Note here statement date is 1 day before new billing period
This is how it allways used to be.
----------------------------------
Now we get the new billing system
Statement date 10 Mar note bill printed 10 days after last bill
Billing period 1 apr - 30 apr
note my statement date has jumped forwards 3 weeks and as a non DD customer I have no 7 days to pay the bill that will not arrive for about 7 days as its second class.
my latest bill follows on the same
statement date 10th april
billing period 1 may - 31 may
------------------------------
again no 7 days to pay it like DD customers get as there dd day is 17th.
Now you can clearly see im being billed 3 weeks in advance of the billing period with no time permitted for the bill to be posted recieved so we know how much we have to pay.
I could of course pay the cable bill before as I know how much that is, but as its so hard to get thru to NTL a lot of the time we pay both at once, when we know how much we actually owe.
The new phone bills statement date and print dates are the same as the cable statements.

Ah, OK I see your point now! I'm not sure how far in advance they billed, I was presuming it was on the day of, but I guess it makes sense that you have to allow people time to pay.

So you're saying that the bill is arriving AFTER the date it is supposed to be paid, is that right?

If this is the case, then I agree this is pretty useless, although I don't know anyone that pays the bills exactly on the day it arrives, so I am sure that there is some leeway here. I think asking them to send the bill earlier if they want paying on time would help here.

Or of course, as I suggested, moving over to diract debit. I guess I can understand people's aversion to DD's, but they're really not bad at all, and in all the years' I've had them (I have DD's active for council tax, gas, water, elec, mobile phone, insurance, tv license & ntl) I have not really had any major issues....in fact I'm struggling to think of even minor ones...aside from getting ntl to get it set up - which took six months! Once operational....all has been well (and no-one's nabbed any money they shouldn't have).

[Paul]

I think I am beginning to follow what you are saying so far - I understand that they have bought your statement date forward about three weeks, so you now get billed for Month XX on the 10th of the previous month.

I have read the next bit but I'm not sure I actually understand it - are you saying that the bill, dated the 10th, does not actually arrive until the 17th, and that NTL are only giving you 7 days from the 10th, (i.e. the 17th) to pay it ?

In other words it is "due" the day it arrives ?

[NitroNutter]

And in reply to to you Hells child
As I said I did not come here for help. I posted My anger at NTL's new system and the attitude of the billing and collections dept. who I had allready been in touch with..
As for paying the moment it drops thru the door. well dd gets removed 7 days later, and I may not have the money for 7 days or so, my fortnightly pay day does not allways coincide with a an ntl bill day. And unlike some people my disability living allowance is with my incapacity where as others who get disability monthly
If you read a bit more you may see iv already dropped 66% minimum of ntl's fingers in my wallet, seeeing as I know how to treat acompany that suddenly becomes like this. a 3 week in advance of a billing period is beyond a joke. and now not even time to recieve a bill before its overdue took it beyond the bounds of reality.

[NitroNutter]

I think I am beginning to follow what you are saying so far - I understand that they have bought your statement date forward about three weeks, so you now get billed for Month XX on the 10th of the previous month.

I have read the next bit but I'm not sure I actually understand it - are you saying that the bill, dated the 10th, does not actually arrive until the 17th, and that NTL are only giving you 7 days from the 10th, (i.e. the 17th) to pay it ?

In other words it is "due" the day it arrives ?hopefully I wont get into trouble with quoting you but you slightly missunderstood
my new statement date is the 10th, that is also my due date. but yes a second class mail rarely gets to a person till about 7 days after postage. so by the time Im in reciept of the bill im allready 7 days overdue for a billing period that hasnt even begun :O

[andygrif]

NN, I'm still struggling to really understand the big beef, sorry if I'm being thick here!

OK, so it's a little annoying that they've changed the billing date, and I do agree that any customer focussed company should OFFER its customers the CHOICE of billing dates, but ntl do not. Frustrating as this is, it's not like you're actually paying for something you're not receiving, and of course if you feel strongly enough about it (which I'm guessing you do) you do have a choice of providers (which it would sound like you're exercising).

How have you broached the subject with ntl, and with whom? What was their response? How do you feel about going to DD?

These and many more questions......

[NitroNutter]

NN, I'm still struggling to really understand the big beef, sorry if I'm being thick here!

OK, so it's a little annoying that they've changed the billing date, and I do agree that any customer focussed company should OFFER its customers the CHOICE of billing dates, but ntl do not. Frustrating as this is, it's not like you're actually paying for something you're not receiving, and of course if you feel strongly enough about it (which I'm guessing you do) you do have a choice of providers (which it would sound like you're exercising).

How have you broached the subject with ntl, and with whom? What was their response? How do you feel about going to DD?

These and many more questions......the big beef is Im overdue 7 days before I can possibly know how much I have to pay, and by the time I do know how much I have to pay Im well overdue but still 2 weeks prior to the billing period im being charged for. as for DD especially on a variable bill with my pay days as fortnightly this just wont coincide every month with a DD date just as it doesnt with a bill drop thru your allways match up with a payday.
It is discrimination and could well affect a lot more people than is realised.

[Hell's Child]

OK, so it's a little annoying that they've changed the billing date, and I do agree that any customer focussed company should OFFER its customers the CHOICE of billing dates, but ntl do not.


You can actually change your "billing" date, i.e the time of the month the bill will be generated by calling C.Serv/billing.

I know people who do not pay by dd (eg customers I sign up!), and do not have the same problems as you NN so This seems like a one off case as oppsed to a major ntl billing problem.

Perhaps another option is to pay via paypoint whenever you get your benefits through. Again, to use a customer of mine as an example, I have a customer who recieves both disablity and in-capacity benefits, which she picks up fortnightly. She has a paypoint card, for which she pays a little each fortnight so that she can set the amount she pays and that covers enough of the bill so that a non payment letter doesn't get sent out. This way ntl doesn't have control of your bank, you don't have to get hacked off with reminder letters and it gives you time to pay the remaining balance off the bill within/over the 7 days of you recieving your bill.

This seems like an option, have you tried??! If works for her, maybe it could work for you?

[NitroNutter]

well bill date i have certainly will not suit most on benefit as most of them will shy away from dd, because paydays will not allways tie in with a dd date.
Now as you allready know I got my bill friday gone. I was paid today. I went to make one phonecall before ringing NTL to pay as usuall and what do you know Phone is suspended.
As I have said before there seems to be many staff at NTL who just arnt trained, (not all but many) even tho they must know this new billing system of 3 weeks pre period jump will affect some people. neither the lady I spoke to last friday about the collection letter and the person I spoke to today to pay and get the phonme back on offered me any kind of idea that the billing date can be changed. I really do not see why it has changed to 3 weeks pre billing period and they are now cutting you off before that billing period even starts.
well they cut me off today, now im cutting NTL of next week, I will still have my phone number. i WILL become ex directory, something else NTL seems unable to handle.

[Hell's Child]

Call ntl up and ask them to change the date so the due date is a bit more convinient for you. Also the paypoint option, seems like the best option for you, try it, see if it helps along with the new billing date and if not, get off ntl.

[NitroNutter]

Call ntl up and ask them to change the date so the due date is a bit more convinient for you. Also the paypoint option, seems like the best option for you, try it, see if it helps along with the new billing date and if not, get off ntl.Ok ill give it a go with getting due date changed to more back where it was end of month/beginning of billing period as I do still have a cable modem thats limping on NTL, but whats the chances of getting my due date back to where it was before and a statement arrive on my door step up to a week before the due date? Not sure on they paypoint thing tho we do use PO paypoint for other utilities but I have on a few occasions had to chase missing payments from there. Never had any problem dialling 150 every month in 8 years for NTL tho.
As for returning my chopped services Ill be giving that a miss. base isnt much different to freeview on TV, and the ex directory will be a true blessing once the old phone books die off. My brother and his GF fell foul of NTL not being able to get ex directory right for them either. NTL lost big time there he quashed a large chunk of contract with them because of it. Swears he will never entertain NTL again after that.
Never seen the problem my sister in law had with NTL phone anywhere else (this was an unusual one), rakes of #'s dialled at a time of day when both were at work and house was empty. Very strange, and funny how it stopped when he killed the NTL phone and went to BT. Most people would probably miss these tho, my sis in law boyfriend lives by his job and disects every penny or fraction of that is spent as a family just as he does when he is investigating all the petroleum stations for short measuring customers, double swiping cards etc, notice how many stations have shut down in the last few years, you should be a lot safer at most of the big supermarket garages. ;)
Its a lot easier for his firm to get round the super markets and whats left of the garages now.

[andygrif]

Call ntl up and ask them to change the date so the due date is a bit more convinient for you. Also the paypoint option, seems like the best option for you, try it, see if it helps along with the new billing date and if not, get off ntl.

I'm not sure this is the crux of the issue is it? I might be missing something, but I thought that the big problem was that NN's bill was being sent out around the time that the bill was due - meaning that the bill was overdue when it arrived. You're right though, a call to billing hopefully should help straighten things out.

I see that NN is also having problems with being ex-directory, is that right? They should be able to handle this (indeed I'm ex-directory and not had a problem). Sounds like your sister's number slipped through the net.

And this is the bottom line...mistakes do happen. You make them, I make them, ntl make them - it's human nature. The skill is in how we make amends. In your case it looks like ntl (and this does seem to happen a lot) didn't do very much to help, and this makes matters worse (something I wish many companies including ntl would wake up to).

If they sorted out what is usually a simple problem at the first point of contact, they would have a lot more happy customers, and a lot lower churn rates.

[Neil]

If they sorted out what is usually a simple problem at the first point of contact, they would have a lot more happy customers, and a lot lower churn rates.

That pretty much sums it up for me Andy. :tu:

I have said for a very long time, that I don't have a problem with things 'going wrong', be that my STB failing, or someone forgetting to send me something I have asked for-$hit happens & I totally accept that.

What ntl don't seem to grasp, is that when aa customer phones with a problem caused by ntl (be it that employees fault or not), they should go that 'extra yard' to get it sorted.

My experience with ntl was that ringing them to follow anything up usually made things worse. :rolleyes:

[Nemesis]

Thread Closed.

We have noticed an influx of similar biling problem threads, and so have created a common thread for people to post their New Billing System Issues. Here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=11446)