View Full Version : Dump TV & Keep Broadband?
byron_hinson
18-04-2004, 20:35
I'm wondering if we're allowed to just have the Broadband 1mb service without NTL TV. I currently have Broadband, TV and Telephone, but we're fed up with our poor TV service and want to switch, I don't however want to lose my NTL broadband.
Any info would be of help, cheers.
Yep, but be aware that if you keep the phone line you'll be charged a separate line rental for that ;)
I dropped digital tv and phone and just kept BB so yes. I would have just kept tv to be honest but they said they couldn't do it. There loss
I do it at the end of the footy season then get it reinstated next season.
gary_580
20-04-2004, 20:25
I dropped digital tv and phone and just kept BB so yes. I would have just kept tv to be honest but they said they couldn't do it. There loss
You wanted just TV? but cos they said they couldnt do it you kept broadband instead?? :confused:
You wanted just TV? but cos they said they couldnt do it you kept broadband instead?? :confused:
I always wonted to keep BB. Until I move anyway but I would have kept TV if they let me have it without paying for a phoneline I dont wont ;)
gary_580
20-04-2004, 23:16
I always wonted to keep BB. Until I move anyway but I would have kept TV if they let me have it without paying for a phoneline I dont wont ;)
Your not paying for a phone line you dont want. The phone line is free if you have TV. If you dont want the phone line dont have it.
Whats so wrong with the phone?
Your not paying for a phone line you dont want. The phone line is free if you have TV. If you dont want the phone line dont have it.
Whats so wrong with the phone?
The phone line is not free.
You are paying (approx) £10.00 more than the equivalent package from Sky, this compensates for lack of phone line.
The phone line is not free.
You are paying (approx) £10.00 more than the equivalent package from Sky, this compensates for lack of phone line.
What was that? :D Cant make it out :pp
NitroNutter
21-04-2004, 03:38
BT phone with sky and and 2meg uncapped unrestricted adsl is a £1 cheeper than NTL anyway why would you really want to keep any?
If your happy with 1 meg then 1 meg adsl is 26.99 no cap no restriction saving you a further £8.50.
Cant wait till I get my BT line back next week, first thing I will be doing is getting it adsl tested (finger crossed), and theres ethernet adsl modems with allways on now so no real setup change. Good brand Dlink cheep about £50
gary_580
21-04-2004, 09:23
The phone line is not free.
You are paying (approx) £10.00 more than the equivalent package from Sky, this compensates for lack of phone line.
It is free!!! Comparing the price of Sky with NTL cable is like comparing the cost of an Equitable Life Pension with a CIS Pension!!!
It is free!!! Comparing the price of Sky with NTL cable is like comparing the cost of an Equitable Life Pension with a CIS Pension!!!
Oh dear.......
Your statements above are totally incorrect I'm afraid.
The base pack on Sky is (approx) 7 or 8 pounds cheaper than the equivalent ntl one-that is because ntl bundle their phone line with the service, so you pay an extra £7/£8 or so whether you like it or not.
Also-FYI, Aizad Hussain (MD of ntl Home) told me in person that he hated the sales reps telling people that they get a free phone line as this is misleading!!
It's not 'free', if it were then why are you paying more money per month for the equivalent Sky package?
The most expensive package from Sky (called Sky World Family Pack) is £40.00 per month (details here: http://www.sky.com/skycom/article/0,,91056-1125843,00.html ), the 'equivalent package from ntl is £47.50 (details here: http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_tv/premium.html )
From that ntl page I've linked to above.....
Our Family Pack + Sport & Movies pack includes ALL the Family Pack channels plus 15 Sky premium channels and 4 Disney channels. Don't forget that the price INCLUDES your telephone line rental, worth £9.50 per month.
So.....that £47.50 package includes a phone line, but is £7.50 dearer than the closest Sky package. :rolleyes: Not only that, but the ntl £47.50 package has less channels than the £40.00 Sky package-fact.
So, whatever way you look at it Gary, you are wrong saying that the phone line is freee, & the proof is above. ;)
*Would you like something to wash down that humble pie!?* :angel: :D
ian@huth
21-04-2004, 10:18
It is free!!! Comparing the price of Sky with NTL cable is like comparing the cost of an Equitable Life Pension with a CIS Pension!!!
Where in NTLs adverts does it say that the telephone line is free with DTV? You get free STB and free repairs, but the telephone line is "included".
How many DTV customers do you think that NTL would retain if they decided that their financial position was such that they could no longer afford to supply a "free" telephone line and started to charge customers £9.50 extra for it?
It's like often-called free minutes with a mobile phone contract - they're not free as you're paying for them. (Actually, with some of the deals out there, they are free; in fact, with one of my current contracts I've actually been paid to use the minutes and take a phone off their hands.)
I too would like to get rid of my "free" ntl phone line and keep TV & broadband but if I'm not going to save any money doing this, why bother?
Cant wait till I get my BT line back next week, first thing I will be doing is getting it adsl tested (finger crossed)
Why not try putting your next-door neighbour's phone number through their broadband checker? Tha should give you a pretty good indication of what speed adsl you will be able to get.
It is free!!! Comparing the price of Sky with NTL cable is like comparing the cost of an Equitable Life Pension with a CIS Pension!!!Not being funny like but I bet NTL sale's love you.
http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_tv/images/tv_price1.gif http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_tv/images/tv_price2.gif http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_tv/images/tv_price3.gif
Spotted anything everyone else has yet ?
You get free STB and free repairsActually I think that's a little misleading too. Nothing is FREE with NTL. The STB is never yours anyway which is why you'd never pay to have it fixed. However as a Sky customer the STB is yours. I may be wrong but I think if anything doe's go wrong they fix it too because they try not to loose customer unlike some companies ;)
NitroNutter
21-04-2004, 12:03
Why not try putting your next-door neighbour's phone number through their broadband checker? Tha should give you a pretty good indication of what speed adsl you will be able to get.No need I allready know my exchange has been upgraded, I regularly look into the alternatives. Unfortunately NTL have done un repairable damage to our relationship now, with the price hike looming in june on 1 meg which is my normal speed and knowing I can get adsl 2meg for less than that as long as my line is up to it, I can wait a week to have my line tested to see what adsl levels I can get. Be very nice if the 4meg adsl in london only for know starts to spread as nationwide as 2 meg. NTL can compete but they will have to do major adjustments now.
1. drop prices
2. repair their messed billing system
3. get more of their staff properly trained.
4. Improve their hardware inline with their increased customer base.
5. Offer a wider scope of tv packs as sky do
5. seperate the NOT FREE phone from their tv
6. BT return customers are only contracted for 3 months. afaik NTL is 12 months.
In todays climate for many people now is a great time to look into swapping the 1 marriage for 3 chix ;)
You have a wider choice, better prices and higher service levels in all the current alternatives to NTL's packages. So the incentive is there to leave, and there is no current incentive to return.
No need I allready know my exchange has been upgraded, I regularly look into the alternatives. Unfortunately NTL have done un repairable damage to our relationship now, with the price hike looming in june on 1 meg which is my normal speed and knowing I can get adsl 2meg for less than that as long as my line is up to it, I can wait a week to have my line tested to see what adsl levels I can get. Be very nice if the 4meg adsl in london only for know starts to spread as nationwide as 2 meg. NTL can compete but they will have to do major adjustments now.
1. drop prices
2. repair their messed billing system
3. get more of their staff properly trained.
4. Improve their hardware inline with their increased customer base.
5. Offer a wider scope of tv packs as sky do
5. seperate the NOT FREE phone from their tv
6. BT return customers are only contracted for 3 months. afaik NTL is 12 months.
In todays climate for many people now is a great time to look into swapping the 1 marriage for 3 chix ;)
You have a wider choice, better prices and higher service levels in all the current alternatives to NTL's packages. So the incentive is there to leave, and there is no current incentive to return.
Sadly I cannot disagree with most of what you say. I personally have never had problems with NTL, maybe because Diamond Cable (who were our local company before NTL took them over) were always very good [at least to me they were].
It is obvious from my time on this forum that our area is the exception rather than the rule and that they fail spectacularly in many areas, and more importantly, do not seem to be trying to improve much.
themelon
21-04-2004, 12:58
Oh dear.......
Your statements above are totally incorrect I'm afraid.
The base pack on Sky is (approx) 7 or 8 pounds cheaper than the equivalent ntl one-that is because ntl bundle their phone line with the service, so you pay an extra £7/£8 or so whether you like it or not.
Also-FYI, Aizad Hussain (MD of ntl Home) told me in person that he hated the sales reps telling people that they get a free phone line as this is misleading!!
It's not 'free', if it were then why are you paying more money per month for the equivalent Sky package?
The most expensive package from Sky (called Sky World Family Pack) is £40.00 per month (details here: http://www.sky.com/skycom/article/0,,91056-1125843,00.html ), the 'equivalent package from ntl is £47.50 (details here: http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_tv/premium.html )
From that ntl page I've linked to above.....
So.....that £47.50 package includes a phone line, but is £7.50 dearer than the closest Sky package. :rolleyes: Not only that, but the ntl £47.50 package has less channels than the £40.00 Sky package-fact.
So, whatever way you look at it Gary, you are wrong saying that the phone line is freee, & the proof is above. ;)
The base Pack on Sky doesnt contain as many channels as the ntl one....well as many decent ones. Channels like ITV2, TMF, UK History (Freeview lot) are not in the Sky Base Pack and only available in the family pack. So its not like for like either way.
An ntl package works out cheaper than having a Sky and BT Line which would cost now £50.50 the comparative ntl package now is £49.50 I believe. Sky Worl has more channles....mostly shopping, and garbage that the wide majority of people never watch, all the most watched channels are available on ntls packages.
The Phone IS NOT Free it is a budled package of which the user has not option to cancel the phone (unless its unavialble). In my opinion this is a major disdvantage to NTL Cable TV market potential, as many people wont want to switch phone numbers or providers and dont want the hassle of changing providers. People will want Digital TV these people will always choose Sky over ntl....and there is a lot of these people around!
themelon
21-04-2004, 13:03
Actually I think that's a little misleading too. Nothing is FREE with NTL. The STB is never yours anyway which is why you'd never pay to have it fixed. However as a Sky customer the STB is yours. I may be wrong but I think if anything doe's go wrong they fix it too because they try not to loose customer unlike some companies ;)
Set Top Box is loaned....yours why you subscribe
Free Repairs
Sky Set Top Box is owned if it breaks after 1 year it is your responsability to fix! In fact the Sky can be absolutely terrible at repairing customer services.......taking weeks sometimes in my experience at phenomenal cost! One bill I had was £120 for call out and repair......I had done nothing wrong! I think the minimum call out charge is/was £60 thats just to look at whats wrong and um and ar....you can have done nothing wrong.
gary_580
21-04-2004, 13:11
Oh dear.......
Your statements above are totally incorrect I'm afraid.
in your opinion
The base pack on Sky is (approx) 7 or 8 pounds cheaper than the equivalent ntl one-that is because ntl bundle their phone line with the service, so you pay an extra £7/£8 or so whether you like it or not.
You use the word EQUIVALENT!! the two things are not the same. For one the transmission mechanism is different. You want to try to get BBC1 in some areas on Sky. The EQUIVALENT NTL package doesnt ahve the same issue!!
Also-FYI, Aizad Hussain (MD of ntl Home) told me in person that he hated the sales reps telling people that they get a free phone line as this is misleading!!
You would listen to this person!! are you mad!! ;)
It's not 'free', if it were then why are you paying more money per month for the equivalent Sky package?
because EQUIVALENT <> SAME
*Would you like something to wash down that humble pie!?* :angel: :D
No thank you, but i would like the option tyo have an opinion without constantly being slated!! :mad:
gary_580
21-04-2004, 13:14
Where in NTLs adverts does it say that the telephone line is free with DTV? You get free STB and free repairs, but the telephone line is "included".
How many DTV customers do you think that NTL would retain if they decided that their financial position was such that they could no longer afford to supply a "free" telephone line and started to charge customers £9.50 extra for it?
it doesnt, but logic says that if you have DTV and you get a phone line for the same price as having DTV WITHOUT the phone line then you are not paying anything EXTRA to have the phone line Therefore its FREE!!
it doesnt, but logic says that if you have DTV and you get a phone line for the same price as having DTV WITHOUT the phone line then you are not paying anything EXTRA to have the phone line Therefore its FREE!!
Either that or you're paying for a phone line you're not using ;)
gary_580
21-04-2004, 13:16
Why not try putting your next-door neighbour's phone number through their broadband checker? Tha should give you a pretty good indication of what speed adsl you will be able to get.
Good idea except a friend of mine had BT go to their house to install ADSL and were not be able to get it work and left. Funny thing was they said i'd advise you to get cable!!
it doesnt, but logic says that if you have DTV and you get a phone line for the same price as having DTV WITHOUT the phone line then you are not paying anything EXTRA to have the phone line Therefore its FREE!!
No, all that happens is that you do not make use of the service you have paid for. I don't smoke, so I don't use the cigarette lighter in my car. That doesn't make the cigarette lighter 'free'. It just means I paid for it because I had to, because it's part of the bundle, and I don't use it.
gary_580
21-04-2004, 13:23
No, all that happens is that you do not make use of the service you have paid for. I don't smoke, so I don't use the cigarette lighter in my car. That doesn't make the cigarette lighter 'free'. It just means I paid for it because I had to, because it's part of the bundle, and I don't use it.
That to me that is different. Why would you have DTV and not use the phone line when it is NO ADITTIONAL COST (free?)
No i wouldnt smoke just because i have a cigarette lighter in my car.
That to me that is different. Why would you have DTV and not use the phone line when it is NO ADITTIONAL COST (free?)
No i wouldnt smoke just because i have a cigarette lighter in my car.
It may not be any additional cost ... due to the fact that it's already been paid for as part of the bundle ....
NOTHING IN THIS LIFE IS FREE
That to me that is different. Why would you have DTV and not use the phone line when it is NO ADITTIONAL COST (free?)
No i wouldnt smoke just because i have a cigarette lighter in my car.
It's not different.
Your question is valid (why would you not use it if it's there?), but you don't prove your point simply by phrasing the question in the way that best suits it.
Better to ask:
Why would you have DTV and not use the phone line when you've already paid for it?
No thank you, but i would like the option tyo have an opinion without constantly being slated!! :mad:
No one is slating you Gary, but you are wrong ;) -the channels that you get from ntl, would cost you approx £7.50 less on Sky as they don't force you to have a phone line.
What if you want TV channels but no phone line? (you end up paying £7.50 too much for a product that you don't want/need because ntl say you have to)
It really is that simple m8-you pay 'X' with Sky & get (for arguements sake) 30 channels, you get the same 30 channels from ntl, & it will cost you £7.50 more as they include the phone line in their price. :angel:
Does somebody have a list of all the relevant Sky/ntl packages & their relevant prices, so that Gary can see the differences?
ian@huth
21-04-2004, 13:36
An ntl package works out cheaper than having a Sky and BT Line which would cost now £50.50 the comparative ntl package now is £49.50 I believe. Sky Worl has more channles....mostly shopping, and garbage that the wide majority of people never watch, all the most watched channels are available on ntls packages.
Be fair, The Sky / BT price of £50.50 is the new price that BT is introducing giving customers who take it the BT Together Option 1 service which is 5.5p for calls of up to one hour evenings and weekends. The nearest NTL alternative to this is their 6p plan which costs £2 extra making the NTL example £51.50 (£1 dearer) with all calls being dearer with NTL.
The Phone IS NOT Free it is a budled package of which the user has not option to cancel the phone (unless its unavialble). In my opinion this is a major disdvantage to NTL Cable TV market potential, as many people wont want to switch phone numbers or providers and dont want the hassle of changing providers. People will want Digital TV these people will always choose Sky over ntl....and there is a lot of these people around!
I agree that NTL should not force DTV customers to take the telephone line and should simply offer a range of TV packages that are £9.50 less than at present with the customer having the option to have a NTL telephone line if they want it. The question is though, would NTL gain or lose customers if they did unbundle thepackages.
Gary, you seem unable to grasp the concept that in the eyes of most of the public and also for that matter the users here, that we could not care about things like transmission methods and the like. What we see is the fact that on NTL and Sky, you receive a range of TV channels. All of the channels on NTL are on Sky (with a few minor issues over sub regions on ITV and BBC 1). If I pay my £19.50 to Sky (as I do), I get all of the channels I have on the NTL £29 (I think it is now this price) plus a whole lot more. I'm not bothered if the TV comes from a dish on the wall, or a cable underground. At the end of the day, a cable comes into my lounge and is connected to a box. This lets me select the channel I want to watch.
As far as the phone service goes, I have a phone that when I dial a number, connects me to the person I have called, and when that person calls me, I hear my phone ringing and answer it. Now here is the difference. With BT, I have an informed choice to answer the call or not, as I have caller ID. With NTL this is not possible. In fact NTL charge me money for the added services BT gives away for free (1571 voicemail and fully itemised phone bill).
Now if you look at the NTL pricing sales pages here http://www.ntlhome.co.uk/ntl_telephone/freeRange.html you will see that the phone line rental is £9.50 for basic service and £11.50 for the equivalent of BT Together. Now looking here http://www.ntlhome.co.uk/ntl_tv/index.asp?cust=ntlcom_tvtextlink it states that the cost of the TV service is "including your line rental" Taking that £9.50 from the £28 listed, soon to become £29 for the Family Pack, you end up with £18.50 or £19.50 which is the cost of the Family Pack from Sky before and after their price rise.
While I'm sharing links, take a look at this list http://www.ntlhome.co.uk/ntl_tv/family_listing.html and compare it to this list http://www.sky.com/skycom/packages/channel/0,,16,00.html you will find that all of the channels listed on NTL are there on Sky except for the Channel NTL which Sky have an equivalent for.
Ok, looking at the above channel comparisons, I feel I do owe you an apology. They are not equivalent. NTL has far less channels than Sky, so you are not comparing like for like. Sorry Gary.
Well, that's all I have to say for now, except, can you use other call packages on NTL lines like Talk Talk and have the same choice of call provider as you can on BT?
The question is though, would NTL gain or lose customers if they did unbundle thepackages.
Their fear is that while customers have an ntl phone line, they will be reluctant to move to ADSL (which they could obviously do really easily if they didn't take an ntl phone line with their DTV, instead just kept their BT line)
BTW, just for the record, I had the full NTL service for over 18 months (Phone, TV and BB), and now have BT + TalkTalk, Sky and a SACM from NTL for BB. I'm therefore in a position to be able to compare the two services.
SMHarman
21-04-2004, 14:26
Either that or you're paying for a phone line you're not using ;)
Thats the case - I have a phone socket on the wall with an ntl logo on it - I could plug a phone in at any time and use it, but i'm still using my BT line. NTL don't offer ISDN and I upgraded prior to BB being availible.
ian@huth
21-04-2004, 14:27
Their fear is that while customers have an ntl phone line, they will be reluctant to move to ADSL (which they could obviously do really easily if they didn't take an ntl phone line with their DTV, instead just kept their BT line)
Exactly!
NTL have a problem in that their broadband products are becoming less competitive. To move to ADSL means the NTL customer has to get a BT line so they don't need the NTL line especially as BT are offering cheaper call packages than NTL and other suppliers through a BT line can be even cheaper. That only leaves the TV package which is £9.50 dearer with NTL than with Sky if you use the BT line for calls rather than the NTL line.
NitroNutter
21-04-2004, 16:01
Sadly I cannot disagree with most of what you say. I personally have never had problems with NTL, maybe because Diamond Cable (who were our local company before NTL took them over) were always very good [at least to me they were].
It is obvious from my time on this forum that our area is the exception rather than the rule and that they fail spectacularly in many areas, and more importantly, do not seem to be trying to improve much.
Your time may well come then, My old cable company was fine, NTL were fine, then they started restricting a service and I think from that point its just been downhill. Now were looking at price hikes, but no improvements, except to the top directors wallets, and a very arrogant, complacent attitude to many customers from many staff. It was at the point of the restriction that I started looking @ alternatives, and now the camels back is broken.
Rising prices and dropping services and the cap'n is holding the gun.
NitroNutter
21-04-2004, 16:17
Their fear is that while customers have an ntl phone line, they will be reluctant to move to ADSL (which they could obviously do really easily if they didn't take an ntl phone line with their DTV, instead just kept their BT line)This should not be a fear, most houses have BT line anyway, its simple to reacitivate it no cost, your only tied for 3 months they will take over your old NTL phone number no cost, and notify NTL for you giving them 7 days notice.
ian@huth
21-04-2004, 16:23
This should not be a fear, most houses have BT line anyway, its simple to reacitivate it no cost, your only tied for 3 months they will take over your old NTL phone number no cost, and notify NTL for you giving them 7 days notice.
How does moving back to BT and retaining your NTL number (which originally was a BT number)from NTL work? You have to give 30 days notice to NTL of cancellation of their service. Anyone been through the process.
I have recently emailed NTL regarding telephone and broadband services and just received a reply stating that you cannot cancel any service via email as it would be a breach of the DPA. Any comments on this?
How does moving back to BT and retaining your NTL number (which originally was a BT number)from NTL work? You have to give 30 days notice to NTL of cancellation of their service. Anyone been through the process.
*Puts hand up* ;)
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=89078&postcount=1
ian@huth
21-04-2004, 16:38
*Puts hand up* ;)
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=89078&postcount=1
Thanks for that Neil. I presume that NTL will continue to charge the line rental for 30 days from when BT contact them about the switch.
In light of what NTL told me about not being able to cancel a service via email because of the DPA how is it that you can cancel a service in the way you illustrate without even contacting NTL?
Thanks for that Neil. I presume that NTL will continue to charge the line rental for 30 days from when BT contact them about the switch.
In light of what NTL told me about not being able to cancel a service via email because of the DPA how is it that you can cancel a service in the way you illustrate without even contacting NTL?
Sounds like typical ntl BS to me m8. :rolleyes:
I didn't speak to ntl about going to BT, nor has anyone I know that has switched from ntl to BT. :tu:
BT do the whole thing, just ring them with your account details etc, & they will do the rest in such a professional manner that will make realise just how lame ntl really are.
NitroNutter
21-04-2004, 17:11
It was so simple, all I did was Inquire with BT about getting my line re enabled as I wasnt happy with my current provider, I made enquiries to the billing methods etc to ensure I wasnt jumping into the fire from the frying pan and was happy with the end result. I asked about 30 days when he said we can switch you in 7 and he said we can do it in 7. As the BT coinversation was a voice contract over the phone for 3 months id guess it was recorded and Id take a guess that BT wasnt BS me, as if they were it would have been recorded.
As for if your still in an ntl contract, Im sure with price hikes and other changes NTL seem to be making to the detriment of a customer you would as a contracted user be able to legally close the contract prematurley. You best check that with a proffessional first tho, ie ofcom, trading standards etc
and as far as I know my old cable # wasnt a BT number, cable couldnt carry my number over from BT when I changed some 8 years ago
SMHarman
21-04-2004, 17:38
and as far as I know my old cable # wasnt a BT number, cable couldnt carry my number over from BT when I changed some 8 years ago
But you can take it from ntl to BT now if you want.
gary_580
21-04-2004, 19:40
How does moving back to BT and retaining your NTL number (which originally was a BT number)from NTL work? You have to give 30 days notice to NTL of cancellation of their service. Anyone been through the process.
I have recently emailed NTL regarding telephone and broadband services and just received a reply stating that you cannot cancel any service via email as it would be a breach of the DPA. Any comments on this?
yes it would be a breach of DPA as its not possible to validate the person sending the email is the correct person.
gary_580
21-04-2004, 19:42
But you can take it from ntl to BT now if you want.
same here. But the rules of transfering numbers has changed in that time
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