All F1 2005 Discussions

[sherer]

Originally Posted by homealone

good question - as far as I know the situation with BAR was a loophole they exploited, that has since been closed, effectively they got a new engine without penalty, because they didn't complete the race.

With Shumi & Heidfeld I don't know, Shumi's car was new, but are you sure it was a different engine??

the glimpse of A1 racing shown on 'fifth gear' last night looked interesting, 450bhp engines, slick tyres, no driver aids, but plenty of downforce. It is like a relaunch of F3000. Worth keeping an eye out for in September.

Yes BAR used a loophole to get a new engine for Malaysia which has been closed but then they failed to complete what was the first race for that engine, hence they should have got a 10 place grid penalty.

For Schuey the new engine wouldn't fit in the old car they were running.. I'm sure he used the new car and engine and so should have got a penalty but didn't ..

Now both Heidfeld and Fisi failed to finish this race for Heidfeld this was the second race on that engine but he failed to finish so should get a penalty for the next race as should Fisi but how can they get a penalty when neither BAR did ?

A1 looks good but I which they had gone for less aero on the cars and wider slicks then could have sent out a real message to F1 on how racing can be

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by homealone

the glimpse of A1 racing shown on 'fifth gear' last night looked interesting, 450bhp engines, slick tyres, no driver aids, but plenty of downforce. It is like a relaunch of F3000. Worth keeping an eye out for in September.

missed it didnt i , i hought it was supporting all the european grand prix this season

[homealone]

Originally Posted by sherer

Yes BAR used a loophole to get a new engine for Malaysia which has been closed but then they failed to complete what was the first race for that engine, hence they should have got a 10 place grid penalty.

For Schuey the new engine wouldn't fit in the old car they were running.. I'm sure he used the new car and engine and so should have got a penalty but didn't ..

Now both Heidfeld and Fisi failed to finish this race for Heidfeld this was the second race on that engine but he failed to finish so should get a penalty for the next race as should Fisi but how can they get a penalty when neither BAR did ?

A1 looks good but I which they had gone for less aero on the cars and wider slicks then could have sent out a real message to F1 on how racing can be

I don't have any answers, but you've raised some good points - in fact it seems ridiculous to me that we are discussing stuff like this, rather than the relative merits of the cars/drivers. It is ironic that these rule changes were supposed to help the smaller teams keep down costs, wheras it has just added more complication to an already overcomplicated sport.

Having said that - Sundays race was one of the most interesting for ages, lets hope it continues now the series moves to the European circuits
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Originally Posted by paulyoung666

missed it didnt i , i hought it was supporting all the european grand prix this season

it's repeated - Friday I think, I'll try & remember to check my didiguide, when I get home.

[sherer]

a few other points going round in my mind about F1 at the moment

The session we see on ITV for qualifying doesn't decide the grid.. despite the fact that they have 3 channels we don't get to see the second session.. this will be confusing to the casual viewer..

when the did sho qualifying 2 they had already shown footage of the grid live and I had already seen a Spanish flag on pole and a german flag in second.. the footage I got of qualifying 2 was 5 seconds of the top 6-8 cars...

ITV aren't the only channel doing this so it's not all their fault but they do have the power to shcedule their 3 channels around showing f1

one of the advantages of single lap qualifying is each team gets gauranteed footage on TV.. great for the smaller teams.. with the way the footage is shown at the moment that isn't the case

all the talk about cost cutting and reducing testing won't have any affect.. even if the FIA bring in a rule then all the top teams will move the test budget to simulation running and wind tunnel work.. they won't save any money.. as the smaller teams won't be able to do simulation there will still be a big gap to them.. what the FIA needs to do is reduce testing, wind tunnel time and ban simulation.. plus any other avenues the test budget could be moved to this will then reduce costs rather than lead to the costs being used up elsewhere

the very rules of F1 are wrong.. 80-90 % of the car is designed for you bar the rules and then whoever has the best wind tunnel program \ tyres will win the races.. this needs to change as the smaller teams have no chance of doing anything on their budget and will always remain at the back.. they can't bring in a breakthrough in design that will give them a 2-3 second advantage with 80-90% of the car alerady designed before the season has started

[iadom]

Originally Posted by homealone

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it's repeated - Friday I think, I'll try & remember to check my didiguide, when I get home.

Correct as usual, Friday at 19.30. I watched last nights programme and also liked the look of A1 cars.

[ian@huth]

Whilst I agree that teams with the biggest budgets have an advantage in F1 the same can be said for any competitive sport and it has been that way since time began. What are the solutions?

You could have all teams running the identical spec of car and engine as is done in some racing. You could even go so far as to have a pool of cars which drivers draw lots as to which one they drive. That would, in my opinion, ruin the sport. You really do need each team doing its own thing which leads to more innovation which has benefits outside of F1.

You could have penalties for success like the weight penalties used in touring cars which I would find more acceptable.

You could have a two race situation at every Grand Prix. Two shorter races with the first run as it is now and the second run in reverse starting grid order to the first. This should lead to some interesting racing in the second race.

Any other ideas for making F1 more competitive and unpredictable?

[Matth]

The logic of the engine rules seems to be...

If you fail to finish, due to mechanical fault or damage, then you MAY replace the engine.

If you finish, then you must make the engine last two races.

Where the loophole was, they "failed to finish" by simply pulling out of a non-points placed finish. though quite how they prevent anyone claiming they had a problem, unless they leave it to scrutineering to decide if the car was actually in a bad enough condition.

How long before the first argument over changing a "dangerous" tyre... the mechanics had better have something to make sure the tyre is punctured... oops, I mean to check the tyre is punctured.

Just like the problem of team orders - anyone can mess up a corner.

[paulyoung666]

to ms and ferrari , as for itv , have a look in the other thread

[paulyoung666]

itv want a right good ****ing if they think that is the way to conduct themselves , 2 laps from the end of a thrilling finish and they go to adverts , itv , i just wish their was an alternative like a few years ago when eurosport covered it , and before anyone says it , i know eurosport had ad breaks but not at the ridiculous times that itv seem to have them

[maxtoralias]

I think what put the tin hat on the ****pot as far as I concerned was having an advert break in the final four laps of the race - what a complete bunch of T***ERS. It was quite exciting at this point!!

[Jonboy]

no need to bow so low pauly the prancing hourse is still prancing about was only a matter of time before it was shod correctly

[homealone]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

itv want a right good ****ing if they think that is the way to conduct themselves , 2 laps from the end of a thrilling finish and they go to adverts , itv , i just wish their was an alternative like a few years ago when eurosport covered it , and before anyone says it , i know eurosport had ad breaks but not at the ridiculous times that itv seem to have them

I think you are right, Paul, it was ridiculous timing for that break, ITV are in the hands of the production company on that afaik, but putting aside who made the call, it was obvious they are not a fan of the sport

[Rob M]

So, how long before this thread gets merged with the other one on F1 then

[homealone]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

no need to bow so low pauly the prancing hourse is still prancing about was only a matter of time before it was shod correctly

MS did very well to exploit his new boots, though (damn him )

- but it has recently been the case Ferrari have had the best tyres on cooler tracks.

It was interesting watching Alonso use the superior traction of the Renault out of the slow corners, to stay ahead, when the Ferrari was clearly the faster car, overall. Having said that, I think Shumies brakes were fading towards the end.

I would like to see something done about the 'dirty air' preventing the cars getting close enough for decent overtaking opportunities, though

[Matth]

A good race, but rotten coverage!

It would have been a Ferrari-led procession if Shuey hadn't messed up the qualifying - the shock being that he was QUALIFYING with that long fuel load - since they can't shove a load more fuel in to go long because he's behind... from behind the following group, to 3rd, in one pitstop.

Misery for his team mate, drawing the reliability short straw yet again.


Definitely, the chase is ON - it would be nice to see the updates from the other teams keep them hanging on to the tail of the prancing horse too!

It was clear from the previous race, that the new Ferrari had speed, though the old one might have taken some points in that race.

With Alonso now 26 points clear of Michael Schumacher, that would take an unlucky 13 races to level, wins to seconds, so Ferrari are going to have to major in both speed and reliability to close the gap