BSkyB decided to remove Rapture TV from their EPG.

[popper]

http://www.rapturetv.com/epgstatement.html

"
BSkyB decided to remove Rapture TV from their EPG.

Sky Pulls Rapture

19th March 2007

On 19 Mar. 07, BSkyB decided to remove Rapture TV from their EPG. Rapture TV was available on the BSkyB platform on channel 193.

Rapture had as late as 15th of March attempted to engage with BSkyB to come to an agreement but BSkyB failed to reply and instead pulled the Rapture EPG number 193.

In September 2006, Rapture TV launched a complaint about BSkyB’s excessive EPG charges with UK TV regulator OFCOM. OFCOM has now determined that BSkyB’s charges are ‘fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory’.

Having reviewed the determination, Rapture TV made it clear that it would be looking at lodging an appeal at the Competitions and Appeals Tribunal, as they feel much of the evidence submitted was not taking into account and/or was treated outside the scope.

Rapture TV is looking forward to submitting their case to the Competitions and Appeals Tribunal and bringing in more evidence that OFCOM deemed to be out of the scope and expects an outcome that is in line with the evidence supplied.

For more information, please send an email to info@rapturetv.com.

To continue watching Rapture via your Sky system, follow the details here."

[Paul]

Think you missed a hyperlink at the end there
http://www.rapturetv.com/sky.html

Fashion TV is another channel which regularly fails to pay Sky and gets removed for a few days. Some channels don't pay their uplink provider and get pulled.

[themelon]

And yet Sky misleadingly claims that Satellite is an Open Platform.........If you want an EPG number you have to pay Sky..........this is all wrong. For Satellite you should not have to pay Sky for an EPG Number, it should be open maybe the regulator controls the EPG numbers?!?

[Tod]

More good publicity for Virgin. Virgin should get rapture onto it's channels, and capitalise from this publicity.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Tod

More good publicity for Virgin. Virgin should get rapture onto it's channels, and capitalise from this publicity.

Hmmm ... sense of proportion required here I think. What is Rapture TV anyway and who watches it?

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by themelon

And yet Sky misleadingly claims that Satellite is an Open Platform.........If you want an EPG number you have to pay Sky..........this is all wrong. For Satellite you should not have to pay Sky for an EPG Number, it should be open maybe the regulator controls the EPG numbers?!?

It's an open platform in the same way as a road is a public thoroughfare for cars. If you don't pay the road tax then your car isn't allowed on the road.

Also, the area you're suggesting would have to include opening up the cable network too - much to many people's dsiapointment, you can't have one rule for one and a different rule for others.

The bottom line is that Rapture lodged a complaint against Sky for charging too much to access their platform, Sky kept the channel on the EPG during the course of the complaint being investigated, Sky were found by the Government appointed body to be acting reasonably - but Rapture still dispute the cost, clearly refusing to pay the charges.

If you didn't pay your bill to Virgin, they'd cut you off. The same has happened here.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Hmmm ... sense of proportion required here I think. What is Rapture TV anyway and who watches it?

Dunno and Dunno. Not exactly a high profile channel obviously

[themelon]

Originally Posted by andygrif

It's an open platform in the same way as a road is a public thoroughfare for cars. If you don't pay the road tax then your car isn't allowed on the road.

Also, the area you're suggesting would have to include opening up the cable network too - much to many people's dsiapointment, you can't have one rule for one and a different rule for others.

The bottom line is that Rapture lodged a complaint against Sky for charging too much to access their platform, Sky kept the channel on the EPG during the course of the complaint being investigated, Sky were found by the Government appointed body to be acting reasonably - but Rapture still dispute the cost, clearly refusing to pay the charges.

If you didn't pay your bill to Virgin, they'd cut you off. The same has happened here.

Maybe it should all be opened up in the long run. Sky should be split into content and platform and content should be sold to their platform at a transparent wholesale rate available to all other broadcasters. Sky Platform would need to run as a viable company in itself to prevent Sky from artificially inflating the wholesale cost of the channels.

But Sky can not claim in anyway that Satellite is an open platform it is not. If you have to pay Sky for anything then they are in control and running things.

Channels can currently pay a wholesale rate to appear on Virgin, so it is as open as Satellite.

It would not be an advantage to any platform to have different boxes, encrytption, middleware so all providers would need to agree on a system to use on a platform and CAMs should be available for non branded boxes from all providers. So that a user could buy a box and insert a CAM for what ever service they choose instead of having to have a Sky Box, Virgin Box, Top Up Box etc.

Currently on Satellite, unless you are Free to View it is not in anyones interest to broadcast independant of Sky as you would need a new box with a new encrytption method. If Virgin pulled all the Flextech channels from Sky and put them on its own service they would have to issue new boxes to everyone or lose viewers. The only realistic option is to pay Sky for an EPG Slot and Encryption. It would be more cost effective to issue a Cam for the multitude of FTA boxes avaiable if the majority of Satellite customers wern't already tied into having the propreitry crap issued by Sky. Sky Boxes should have a Cam Slot and Sky should issue a Cam, then their network is open. Then we can look at opening the cable network.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Hmmm ... sense of proportion required here I think. What is Rapture TV anyway and who watches it?

Most marketing departments could make this considerably more advantageous. Rapture may not be a big channel, but the message behind what is happening to it is big. If you add all these things up, it certainly goes to prove that Virgin are not the only "victims" of Skys monopoly.

[Rob]

Why was a thread about Sky TV services in a Virgin Media discussion area

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by themelon

Maybe it should all be opened up in the long run. Sky should be split into content and platform and content should be sold to their platform at a transparent wholesale rate available to all other broadcasters. Sky Platform would need to run as a viable company in itself to prevent Sky from artificially inflating the wholesale cost of the channels.

I agree...and have thought so for many years. However such a move would need to take into account niche channels that serve a real public interest albiet with tiny minority audiences...so just allowing programme providers to supply channels direct to consumers on a cherry-picked basis would mean that viewer choice would suffer rather than be enhanced.

However if I could buy my Flextech channels from Virgin (over the satellite) and my Sky channels from Sky, I could make an informed decision as to whether I wanted to watch them or not.

Originally Posted by themelon

But Sky can not claim in anyway that Satellite is an open platform it is not. If you have to pay Sky for anything then they are in control and running things.

To be fair, Sky's platform is open if you meet two criteria:

1/ You're not broadcasting anything that infringes UK Broadcasting Laws.
2/ You pass the credit check and stump up the EPG fees, which are publicly available.

Sky are not in a position to editorially control any channel from a third party and everyone pays the same fees. If I had the cash, I could put a channel on Sky tomorrow, and there's nothing they could do about it.

The best example as to how open the platform is, would be to point out that until Virgin Media came into being, ntl had two channels promoting their wares on the Sky platform. If Sky wanted to operate a closed shop, those channels would not have been there.

Originally Posted by themelon

Channels can currently pay a wholesale rate to appear on Virgin, so it is as open as Satellite.

No it isn't. I used to work for a company that provided channels to cable companies all over Europe and you had to negotiate rates with every company and if they didn't want your channels (and I am specifically talking about ntl now as was) they would make excuses about space, the prices would be ludicrous and inevetably no deal would be done.

If they wanted your channel, you'd find the ride a lot easier, but if they didn't then you would not get on. They were effectively acting as editoral control over the channel packages they offered - which is fine, but it's not an open shop.

By comparison, Sky's platform was available to anyone and you paid the same amount as others to be on there....a fact bourne out by the hundreds of channels of drivel on Sky, which are not available on cable.

[tweetiepooh]

It seems though from the tech details on Rapture's site that you can config the sky box to tune to Rapture. In that sense Sky is open, they don't control the medium the programmes are sent over. They do control the content and can control who can usefully receive that content.

Our cable system is closed in that we do control and own the medium.

[Tightscot]

Originally Posted by Rob

Why was a thread about Sky TV services in a Virgin Media discussion area

It's just Sky taking over.... first they infiltrate the VM discussion forum... then they take over the world... oh too late.

more importantly i never even heard of rapture, so can't say i'm bothered.

[TheBlueRaja]

Rapture TV??? Come on now thats about as entertaining as Living TV, as a Sky subscriber i don't think i'll be loosing any sleep over it, its not as if they pulled Sky One or something equally disastrous.

That would have me very, very upset with my provider.