Sky VS Virgin (& Others)

[keltik]

I thought you all might want to see this.

www.sky.com/seespeaksurf

Have a look at the comparison page, it compares like for like.

I do work for Sky, in retention as it happens, I spek to would be Virgin customers, and more often than not they end up staying, Ive also heard what Virgin have been telling their prospective customers. And Ive seen their adverts. I also used to work retention for BT, and heard what the cable companies would tell people to get them to join, needless to say, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

Sky have the superior TV service, theyre making strides in the technology that the cable companies are just copying. Ok, their BB services suffers because of poor BT lines, but their phone service is bloody hard to beat, but their BB is CHEAP. I wouldn't pay £25 for a 1Mb service as Ive heard some people do. Im planning to go for Sky TV, Sky Talk and Sky BB. Beacuse its the best deal Ive seen, and I'm not saying that as a Sky employee...

[andygrif]

I'm glad you nailed your colours to the mast before basically doing what you accuse the cable companies and BT of!

Having had to set up Sky Broadband for the father in law, who are on an Easynet exchange (i.e Sky own it) I can tell you that it's not the lines that are letting you down, it's the absolute disgrace of a technical support department you've got. I used to have ntl's broadband, and I thought their tech support was a waste of oxygen, but Sky's is something else.

Saying that, the package for broadband is good (as long as it works) and although I'm sure you'll find someone on here that would disagree, but most would think that for light users (such as my father in law) the free package is extremely good.

[keltik]

Lol, Ive spoken to some people who have said Sky customer service is the worst theyve ever experienced and some who say its the best, I guess it all comes down to personal experience. I however am going on what Ive seen, not as a customer, Ive seen exactly what sky offers, and what other companies offer, Im making an informed descison.

Id never touch another Fiat in my life, we had one that was absolutley cursed, but then theres some people who swear by them, but that was my experience...

[quadplay]

I was going to let this go, but having read the Sky webpage I just can't...

It doesn't compare like-for-like, does it? Although the page admits "all you pay is £11 a month to BT for your line rental", that's conveniently forgotten in the eye-grabbing £26 headline - which, including line rental actually comes to £37 per month.

It compares:
Sky 6 Mixes with Virgin TV Size: XL (£21.00 vs £20.50)
Sky FreeTalk with Virgin Phone Size: L (£11.00 vs £16.50)
Sky Broadband Mid with Virgin Broadband Size: L (£5.00 vs £25.00)

Now, this would all be fine if you had to pay for all the items seperately with Virgin Media. But you don't, you get it all on one bill* and if you take all three services from Virgin Media (as Sky are expecting you to do from them), you get the 3 for £30 discount of £10.50. This makes the total monthly costs (excluding call charges and PPV/VoD) £37.00 for Sky's SeeSpeakSurf vs £51.50 for the nearest package from Virgin Media.

At this point, Sky still looks like the better offer. And I don't deny it's a good offer. However, the Sky Surf package in SeeSpeakSurf has a usage allowance of 40GB per month, whereas all Virgin Broadband packages are unlimited. Plus, the Sky Surf package is up to 8Mb. Due to the nature of ADSL, the majority of users (assuming a normal geographic spread from the exchange) will not get this speed. And of course, this price is only available if you're connected to an exchange which Easynet/Sky have unbundled.

So, as always, the better offer depends on your needs. If all you want is TV and a simple phone line, Virgin Media has the better offer:
Sky 6 Mixes or Virgin TV Size: XL (£21.00 vs £20.50)
Sky Freetime & BT line rental or Virgin Phone Size: M (£11.00 vs £11.00)
You then get the 2 for £20 discount of £2.50 per month, making the Sky package £32.00 monthly and the Virgin Media package £29.00.

Perhaps instead, we should do the comparison the other way round, and compare the Virgin Media 3 for £30 offer with Sky's nearest equivalents:
Virgin: TV Size: L, Phone Size: M and Broadband Size: M (2Mb Unlimited) - £30.00
Sky: 4 Mixes, Talk Freetime & BT Line Rental and Surf Mid (Up to 8Mb, 40GB limit) - £34.00**

Obviously, each user is different and what works for one won't work for another.

Looking at the "Combine & Compare" section, the Sky prices still exclude Line Rental whereas it's included in the Virgin pricing - this is even admitted in small print at the bottom! And most annoyingly, all these pages refer to ntl:Virgin or ntl/Virgin. Either someone in Sky's Marketing department is spectacularly thick, or they're deliberately infringing on a trademark assuming it won't be noticed. I think it will, and it has the potential to cost Sky a lot of money.

Finally, on the subject of contacting Customer Services, calls to Virgin Media customer service are free if you call from a Virgin Landline, or "local rate" (usually around 4p/min) from another line. All calls to Sky on their normal customer service number are "national rate" (usually around 8p/min).

So before blindly slagging off your competitors, perhaps you should do some research. And since you mentioned trusting people as far as we can throw them, care to comment on the Sky operatives who are now phoning Virgin TV subscribers who take Sky Sports telling them that Sky are going to remove the Sports pack in a few months time? I'm sure that would go down really well with the OFT, since Sky Sports and Movies are on the Rate Card.

Ahem. This wasn't meant to be an essay, but there we go. Rant over.

* Some customers may get two bills in certain areas, depending on products taken. Discounts still apply. Some discounts from both companies might be for new customers only.
** I've chosen the Mid package here because it seems the best compromise between speed and download limit. The nearest package in speed is Sky Surf Base which is free, but only has a 2GB download allowance. The nearest package for download allowance is Sky Surf Max which is unlimited but costs £10 per month instead of £5.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by keltik

Lol, Ive spoken to some people who have said Sky customer service is the worst theyve ever experienced and some who say its the best, I guess it all comes down to personal experience. I however am going on what Ive seen, not as a customer, Ive seen exactly what sky offers, and what other companies offer, Im making an informed descison.

It does. I have been an NTL customer for years, and dealt with Sky on a few occassions. Everytime I've been left feeling glad I am an NTL customer, and how their service was superior to Sky..

Id never touch another Fiat in my life, we had one that was absolutley cursed, but then theres some people who swear by them, but that was my experience...

I know many people who have had one fiat. Not so many that have had two.

[AndyCambs]

Originally Posted by quadplay

I was going to let this go, but having read the Sky webpage I just can't...

It doesn't compare like-for-like, does it? Although the page admits "all you pay is £11 a month to BT for your line rental", that's conveniently forgotten in the eye-grabbing £26 headline - which, including line rental actually comes to £37 per month.

It compares:
Sky 6 Mixes with Virgin TV Size: XL (£21.00 vs £20.50)
Sky FreeTalk with Virgin Phone Size: L (£11.00 vs £16.50)
Sky Broadband Mid with Virgin Broadband Size: L (£5.00 vs £25.00)

Now, this would all be fine if you had to pay for all the items seperately with Virgin Media. But you don't, you get it all on one bill* and if you take all three services from Virgin Media (as Sky are expecting you to do from them), you get the 3 for £30 discount of £10.50. This makes the total monthly costs (excluding call charges and PPV/VoD) £37.00 for Sky's SeeSpeakSurf vs £51.50 for the nearest package from Virgin Media.

At this point, Sky still looks like the better offer. And I don't deny it's a good offer. However, the Sky Surf package in SeeSpeakSurf has a usage allowance of 40GB per month, whereas all Virgin Broadband packages are unlimited. Plus, the Sky Surf package is up to 8Mb. Due to the nature of ADSL, the majority of users (assuming a normal geographic spread from the exchange) will not get this speed. And of course, this price is only available if you're connected to an exchange which Easynet/Sky have unbundled.

So, as always, the better offer depends on your needs. If all you want is TV and a simple phone line, Virgin Media has the better offer:
Sky 6 Mixes or Virgin TV Size: XL (£21.00 vs £20.50)
Sky Freetime & BT line rental or Virgin Phone Size: M (£11.00 vs £11.00)
You then get the 2 for £20 discount of £2.50 per month, making the Sky package £32.00 monthly and the Virgin Media package £29.00.

Perhaps instead, we should do the comparison the other way round, and compare the Virgin Media 3 for £30 offer with Sky's nearest equivalents:
Virgin: TV Size: L, Phone Size: M and Broadband Size: M (2Mb Unlimited) - £30.00
Sky: 4 Mixes, Talk Freetime & BT Line Rental and Surf Mid (Up to 8Mb, 40GB limit) - £34.00**

Obviously, each user is different and what works for one won't work for another.

Looking at the "Combine & Compare" section, the Sky prices still exclude Line Rental whereas it's included in the Virgin pricing - this is even admitted in small print at the bottom! And most annoyingly, all these pages refer to ntl:Virgin or ntl/Virgin. Either someone in Sky's Marketing department is spectacularly thick, or they're deliberately infringing on a trademark assuming it won't be noticed. I think it will, and it has the potential to cost Sky a lot of money.

Finally, on the subject of contacting Customer Services, calls to Virgin Media customer service are free if you call from a Virgin Landline, or "local rate" (usually around 4p/min) from another line. All calls to Sky on their normal customer service number are "national rate" (usually around 8p/min).

So before blindly slagging off your competitors, perhaps you should do some research. And since you mentioned trusting people as far as we can throw them, care to comment on the Sky operatives who are now phoning Virgin TV subscribers who take Sky Sports telling them that Sky are going to remove the Sports pack in a few months time? I'm sure that would go down really well with the OFT, since Sky Sports and Movies are on the Rate Card.

Ahem. This wasn't meant to be an essay, but there we go. Rant over.

* Some customers may get two bills in certain areas, depending on products taken. Discounts still apply. Some discounts from both companies might be for new customers only.
** I've chosen the Mid package here because it seems the best compromise between speed and download limit. The nearest package in speed is Sky Surf Base which is free, but only has a 2GB download allowance. The nearest package for download allowance is Sky Surf Max which is unlimited but costs £10 per month instead of £5.

Excellent comparison, and only goes to prove what I say - Sky never compare like with like... The 8MB broadband is UPTO 8MB - and will more likely only be around 1MB.

[awibble]

Originally Posted by keltik

I thought you all might want to see this.

www.sky.com/seespeaksurf

Have a look at the comparison page, it compares like for like.

I do work for Sky, in retention as it happens, I spek to would be Virgin customers, and more often than not they end up staying, Ive also heard what Virgin have been telling their prospective customers. And Ive seen their adverts. I also used to work retention for BT, and heard what the cable companies would tell people to get them to join, needless to say, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

Sky have the superior TV service, theyre making strides in the technology that the cable companies are just copying. Ok, their BB services suffers because of poor BT lines, but their phone service is bloody hard to beat, but their BB is CHEAP. I wouldn't pay £25 for a 1Mb service as Ive heard some people do. Im planning to go for Sky TV, Sky Talk and Sky BB. Beacuse its the best deal Ive seen, and I'm not saying that as a Sky employee...

Sounds like you are falling for all the marketing tricks Sky can throw at you.

Maybe you could explain how you can be so completly wrong? I have looked at switching to sky and it takes me over 2 years to break even on price.

Your upto 16Mb service is crap, i can only get 512Kb
You charge £299 for a HD box, thats included with virgin medias prices.

and thats just for a start.... Carnt wait to see sky beat the VIP package.

[ladyflame]

I'm not sure if this has changed as it has been a while since my Uncle had Sky but when he did he had to pay for all repairs, call-outs etc and they were not cheap.

I've had to have NTL out a few times due to people messing with our telephone exchange and all call-outs were free.

When i've had issues with my TV or broadband they've been able to fix the problem over the phone, not had to have anyone out due to that *touchs wood*

Yes, you get more tv channels with Sky but most of them as the 'free' ones that most people never watch. I will miss Sky one but i wont move to Sky.

[AntiSilence]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

It does. I have been an NTL customer for years, and dealt with Sky on a few occassions. Everytime I've been left feeling glad I am an NTL customer, and how their service was superior to Sky..

I've not had to phone Sky up before, but the times I have had to phone ntl up they have always been very helpful.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

Originally Posted by ladyflame

I'm not sure if this has changed as it has been a while since my Uncle had Sky but when he did he had to pay for all repairs, call-outs etc and they were not cheap.

I've had to have NTL out a few times due to people messing with our telephone exchange and all call-outs were free.

When i've had issues with my TV or broadband they've been able to fix the problem over the phone, not had to have anyone out due to that *touchs wood*

Yes, you get more tv channels with Sky but most of them as the 'free' ones that most people never watch. I will miss Sky one but i wont move to Sky.

When our STB died the other month, I phoned ntl up and they sent an engineer out with a new one 2 days later. No extra cost to me

[dodgem22]

Fiat fix it again tomorrow

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by dodgem22

Fiat fix it again tomorrow

[Matt D]

Originally Posted by AndyCambs

The 8MB broadband is UPTO 8MB - and will more likely only be around 1MB.

Eh? "More likely"????


Speed will be dependent on attenuation (related to line length), & noise margin (affected by line quality & your own extension wiring etc.).... the same as for any ADSL ISP.


I am "approximately 1.48km from the exchange (straight line distance)" & get 8-9mbps on the Sky BB Max service.

[ikthius]

does sky have setanta?

if so, how much on top?

ik

Originally Posted by keltik

I thought you all might want to see this.

www.sky.com/seespeaksurf

Have a look at the comparison page, it compares like for like.

I do work for Sky, in retention as it happens, I spek to would be Virgin customers, and more often than not they end up staying, Ive also heard what Virgin have been telling their prospective customers. And Ive seen their adverts. I also used to work retention for BT, and heard what the cable companies would tell people to get them to join, needless to say, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

Sky have the superior TV service, theyre making strides in the technology that the cable companies are just copying. Ok, their BB services suffers because of poor BT lines, but their phone service is bloody hard to beat, but their BB is CHEAP. I wouldn't pay £25 for a 1Mb service as Ive heard some people do. Im planning to go for Sky TV, Sky Talk and Sky BB. Beacuse its the best deal Ive seen, and I'm not saying that as a Sky employee...

Of course you would prefer to have Sky. I also work for Sky and (after your probation) we get it free!!!!
For the record I've kept my DSl with Pipex.

[Central]

Originally Posted by AndyCambs

- and will more likely only be around 1MB.

What a load of rubbish