Phorm and Internet Big Brothers maybe a good thing?

[m419]

For ISP's to make money: Yes
Watching and catching criminals: Yes
Catching people accessing and downloading illegal files and content: Yes

Seriously, why do people worry so much about Phorm and other Big Brother ISP's?

Privacy does not exist on this planet, it went out the window time ago!

I bet all those that disagree with me use:

Nectar Cards
Tesco Club Cards
Connect there Sky Box to there phone line
Use Vodafone Pay As You Talk
Forget to tick that box to opt out of passing your details on when you vote.
Not realise CCTV is on nearly every street corner,Supermarket and public place
Forget to log out properly when you exit Email
Forget to shread you bills,letters and bank statements
Use a Staff discount card (If you work in retail)
Use Facebook or Twitter
Use internet search engines

All those collect enough information to fill a profile of you.

Out of that can found out:

Your name
Address
Telephone number
Date of Birth
Place of Birth
How much you spend on shopping
What you buy
How much spend on phone calls
Who you make phone calls to
Why you go on holiday
Where you work
How much you and your family earn
What you bank details are
How much debt your in
How much Alcohol you consume
Why you weren't at work at 11am on Friday
What websites you visit
Where you were at 2pm last Wednesday
How to get hold of you when your not at home
How to get hold of your friends and family to bug them with sales calls.


It goes on!

All those things collect and store your personal information and exchange it with others to build a profile of you, thats how Experian and Equifax know how good or bad your credit history.

Social networking sites collect so much information, the featured adverts that come on the side explains it all!

And when you don't log out properly of email such as GoogleMail,Yahoo Mail and Hotmail, did you know spammers are able to see your email address to send spam to it? Well it's possible and thats how they get hold of it.

So there you go! Its a matter of life and human nature to watch how other people live and to watch what people do.

If you want some sort of privacy, just stay away from the internet.

And lastly I mentioned Vodafone Pay As You Talk, I once called the registration line a few years back to register my details, the automated service said ''Vodafone may use your personal call and text data blah blah blah, if you do not want this to happen please tell the advisor, ok, But who remembers to do that!

[Ignitionnet]

I was thinking something quite similar myself. It was amusing to me that I was able to obtain the address and 2 telephone numbers of a notable campaigner for online privacy within the space of 5 minutes, meanwhile said person is worrying about Talk Talk's anti-malware or Detica's CView technology.

That said there is a line which shouldn't be crossed. I'm far from convinced Phorm doesn't cross, don't know enough about the Huawei system to have an opinion, and am quite relaxed about CView.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

That said there is a line which shouldn't be crossed. I'm far from convinced Phorm doesn't cross, don't know enough about the Huawei system to have an opinion, and am quite relaxed about CView.

Strange because i am not. Its the next phorm.

[Rob]

People have a choice as to whether to sign up to systems such as Facebook, and how much of their information they allow to be displayed. People have a choice whether to accept a storecard that they know will track their shopping patterns in return for discounts. If you don't sign up, or even choose not to use your card for a transaction then the store can't track you for it.

People seem to have no choice as to whether their internet use habits will be tracked by systems such as Phorm. Even with and opt in / out if the kit is installed by the ISP all traffic would have to be routed via such kit, and then only discarded by it's systems if the don't scan flag is counted. But how do you know that it is discarding it, just because you are told it will?

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by m419

For ISP's to make money: Yes
Watching and catching criminals: Yes
Catching people accessing and downloading illegal files and content: Yes

Seriously, why do people worry so much about Phorm and other Big Brother ISP's?

Privacy does not exist on this planet, it went out the window time ago!

I bet all those that disagree with me use:

Nectar Cards - NO
Tesco Club Cards - NO
Connect there Sky Box to there phone line - NO
Use Vodafone Pay As You Talk - NO
Forget to tick that box to opt out of passing your details on when you vote. - NO
Not realise CCTV is on nearly every street corner,Supermarket and public place - YES
Forget to log out properly when you exit Email - ON MY OWN PASSWORD PROTECTED LOGIN ON MY PERSONAL PC, YES - PUBLIC PC, NO
Forget to shread you bills,letters and bank statements - ALWAYS SHRED THESE, AND CREDIT CARD RECEIPTS
Use a Staff discount card (If you work in retail) - NO
Use Facebook or Twitter - YES, (FB) WITH HIGHEST PRIVACY SETTINGS (NOT SEARCHABLE)
Use internet search engines - YES, WITH INPRIVATE BROWSING

All those collect enough information to fill a profile of you.

One size does not fit all, and I value my privacy - Phorm/etc do not give me the option.

[m419]

The internet has always been a no-privacy zone! Look at Spyware,Malware and viruses. And how do you think they catch people downloading music? And one last thing, at least the ISP's give some warning that they are gonna collect data. If they are going to sell such information to third parties, I would like to see some of it passed back to customers and then I think it will be a fair deal. Sales and marketing makes the world go round,annoying but without market research it's impossible. Apart from that, BT's Phorm plans was probably to generate revenue, they are struggling! Homephone and Payphone usage is dropping,they have no mobile network and they need a lot of money to upgrade the UK's copper cable network.

[Stuart]

m419, there is a massive difference. You have a choice not to use nearly all of those without being tracked..

Originally Posted by m419

For ISP's to make money: Yes
Watching and catching criminals: Yes
Catching people accessing and downloading illegal files and content: Yes

Seriously, why do people worry so much about Phorm and other Big Brother ISP's?

Privacy does not exist on this planet, it went out the window time ago!

I bet all those that disagree with me use:

Nectar Cards
Tesco Club Cards

You can use shops without reward cards, and if you want to make doubly sure they don't track you, pay cash.

Connect there Sky Box to there phone line

Don't. OK, you'll lose PPV and any discounts (eg for multiroom)

Use Vodafone Pay As You Talk

Use payphones with cash

Forget to tick that box to opt out of passing your details on when you vote.

Vote for what? Of course, you could tick the box (this is covered by the Data Protection Act, which these new online systems are not, necessarily).

Not realise CCTV is on nearly every street corner,Supermarket and public place

Use of this is covered by the DPA.

Forget to log out properly when you exit Email
Forget to shread you bills,letters and bank statements

Don't forget.

Use a Staff discount card (If you work in retail)

As with Sky, don't use it and pay more.

Use Facebook or Twitter
Use internet search engines

Put the minimum required or vague info in any social networking site, disable cookies and use an anonymizing proxy when searching, Also, avoid Chrome.

My point is that the tracking for all the things you mentioned can be avoided or disabled. If your ISP bungs a Phorm type system on their network, they may offer an opt out option, but you have no real way of knowing if they are tracking you or have stopped.

---------- Post added at 13:15 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Originally Posted by m419

The internet has always been a no-privacy zone! Look at Spyware,Malware and viruses. And how do you think they catch people downloading music? And one last thing, at least the ISP's give some warning that they are gonna collect data. If they are going to sell such information to third parties, I would like to see some of it passed back to customers and then I think it will be a fair deal. Sales and marketing makes the world go round,annoying but without market research it's impossible. Apart from that, BT's Phorm plans was probably to generate revenue, they are struggling! Homephone and Payphone usage is dropping,they have no mobile network and they need a lot of money to upgrade the UK's copper cable network.

BT's customers weren't told they were being monitored.

Also, if BT are struggling (I don't think they are), they need to take responsibility for that themselves. They sold their mobile network.

[m419]

Ok fair enough lol Me personally I just don't care, i've got nothing to hide, let them research me, glad someone takes an interest. Bit late for some people though.

[rogerdraig]

For ISP's to make money: Yes

maybe

Watching and catching criminals: Yes

lol


Catching people accessing and downloading illegal files and content: Yes

might work for a while will just lead to a escaliting war of encription and ways of delivery

if i want someone to know i am looking for life insurance i will tick or un tick the appropiate box otherwise no one should be made aware of this

that some can come by this information now doesnt mean that it should be made easier for every one it should mean they just make it harder for those that can now and or make it so the penalties for doing so are much harsher or if now there now put in place

the I dont mind sharing people dont loose out they can share everything they want for free now with ease i find it strange they are so worried that the others dont want too that they seem intent on trying to get people to see sharing as the norm


as to
"Nectar Cards
Tesco Club Cards
Connect there Sky Box to there phone line
Use Vodafone Pay As You Talk
Forget to tick that box to opt out of passing your details on when you vote.
Not realise CCTV is on nearly every street corner,Supermarket and public place
Forget to log out properly when you exit Email
Forget to shread you bills,letters and bank statements
Use a Staff discount card (If you work in retail)
Use Facebook or Twitter
Use internet search engines"

i use some of these i as i make the desision that they benifit me ( clubcard gets me and my family 2 free holidays a year ) and i opt out of sharing on most

my facebook and other services i use find that i block everything they decide whish bits to unblock to share

all in all i mostly decide exactly what to share

the reason lots of us are not happy with things like phorm is they share far more than most realise though i think as the various problems with facebook and jobs and the efect it canhave get more and more publicty then more will conme to our side as more and more realise what they are giving away

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I was thinking something quite similar myself. It was amusing to me that I was able to obtain the address and 2 telephone numbers of a notable campaigner for online privacy within the space of 5 minutes, meanwhile said person is worrying about Talk Talk's anti-malware or Detica's CView technology.

That said there is a line which shouldn't be crossed. I'm far from convinced Phorm doesn't cross, don't know enough about the Huawei system to have an opinion, and am quite relaxed about CView.

Which rather makes the point - there are those who make it their business to "de-anonymise" anonymised data. Some may indeed do it for amusement, for others it is a commercial living. and sometimes, a line can be crossed, between amusement and illegality.

And sometimes, those who do not have privacy themselves for professional reasons, can still be concerned to ensure the protection of other vulnerable or even naive individuals who need their privacy. People ARE naive - I agree, but I'm not sure the sort of common behaviours that were mentioned in the opening to this thread would wash very well for example, as part of a DPA or RIPA defence strategy for someone who found themselves the wrong side of either DPA or RIPA in connection with covert non-consensual tracking or interception behaviour.

But I do agree to the extent that I don't think people are yet fully aware of how much information IS gathered about them.

Others have made the point effectively above, about the difference between limited voluntary schemes like a Nectar or Tesco card (only monitoring me when I use actually use it in participating stores) and other forms of monitoring that function in a much more "general" manner, like on an internet connection or mobile phone.

But public awareness is gradually rising. If prior consent is clearly obtained from all parties involved, and tracking is not covert, then there is little to object to. But so far, each time someone has tried something covert, it has tended to backfire from a PR point of view.

A good scheme that genuinely benefits consumers, won't need to be covert. It can be sold to consumers on its merits. This seems to be the direction European legislation is moving.

None of the reputable online monitoring and tracking schemes should fear full public awareness of what they are doing. The only situation where such monitoring NEEDS to be covert, is that warranted surveillance carried out by the state.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Rchivist

But public awareness is gradually rising. If prior consent is clearly obtained from all parties involved, and tracking is not covert, then there is little to object to. But so far, each time someone has tried something covert, it has tended to backfire from a PR point of view.

And it should always be a case of OP IN for these snooping schemes, It must never be Opt Out. You can bet within the next couple of months at least one of the main ISP's will test some form of snooping be it to make money or to catch you file sharing.

I will object to any use of my browsing information that is used to make money or to send adverts to me.