BT begins FTTC broadband rollout pilots - Page 2

soicky · 12-09-2009, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Yep upload speed could and should be higher on FTTP given the bandiwdth is 2.4Gbps downstream and 1.2Gbps upstream to each 32 home split.

On the other hand given Virgin palm people with 50Mbps off with 1.75Mbps upstream at the moment the incentive to improve things is hardly overwhelming. Virgin are, frankly, excrement for upstream so BT do similar, a pretty common story.

BT pushing out to 10Mbps is as much as VM are advertising, and given that VM are seeing upstream congestion even with the crappy upstreams they offer now they have some work to do!

How much do you think average prices will go up by once BT have installed FTTC.

Ignitionnet · 13-09-2009, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by soicky

How much do you think average prices will go up by once BT have installed FTTC.

They won't it'll be a set of new products available. No-one will be forced onto FTTC and charged more.

Pierre · 13-09-2009, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Frankly BT's 10:1 on an FTTP 100Mbit product kicks arse compared to anything VM have at the moment.

BT fibre to the home. Isn't much more than a publicity stunt. they're not rolling it out en-mass. So good luck to you if you want it.

Ignitionnet · 15-09-2009, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

BT fibre to the home. Isn't much more than a publicity stunt. they're not rolling it out en-mass. So good luck to you if you want it.

OK.

Then the 4:1 ratio mentioned in the more recent documentation for FTTC kicks arse, and it's a better ratio than the FTTP for upstream to downstream.

I'm very aware of the wideness or otherwise of the FTTP deployment and have posted and written about it in several different places. I'm not bigging up BT at all I'm merely pointing out that BT's new stuff kicks VM's backside for upstream to downstream symmetry.

We can discuss it some more once VM pull their finger out and start producing these 10Mbit upstream trials 'en masse'. One thing I always hate about VM the way they willy wave about what they are trialling and doing and say about how they are doing tier upgrades that are several months away. No other <bleep> cableco I know of does that they do their trials in quiet generally and announce tier upgrades after they've finished them or just before they do. Only big rollouts get announced such as DOCSIS 3 deployments, not tier uplifts and trials of new tiers.

Druchii · 15-09-2009, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

We can discuss it some more once VM pull their finger out and start producing these 10Mbit upstream trials 'en masse'. One thing I always hate about VM the way they willy wave about what they are trialling and doing and say about how they are doing tier upgrades that are several months away. No other <bleep> cableco I know of does that they do their trials in quiet generally and announce tier upgrades after they've finished them or just before they do. Only big rollouts get announced such as DOCSIS 3 deployments, not tier uplifts and trials of new tiers.

I'd just like to echo that, with two prime examples.
My old cable provider "Get.no" which upgraded my upstream from 3Mb to 4Mb, for no extra cost. I never knew til i speedtested it.
NextGenTel: Just launched VDSL2 here in Norway, 40/20Mbs, nobody even knew until they checked the website...

So, why do VM announce so much crap?

*sloman* · 15-09-2009, 12:40

The report says most homes are only 300-400meters away from BT's street Cab's but how do we find out? I have one on my street about 20 meters away from the VM boxes but will the fibre go to this box or to the larger ones closer to the city centre?

I just hope they start to include some midland cities like Derby!!!!!, Notts, Leicester etc...

When they talk about 40% of all homes i'm worried that cities like Derby and Notts may be missed out and only the big cities, London, Birmingham, Glasgow, Liverpool etc... will get the upgrade.

I hope this gives VM a kick up the bum to roll out 10mb up stream for us 50mb customers

Ignitionnet · 15-09-2009, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sloman*

The report says most homes are only 300-400meters away from BT's street Cab's but how do we find out? I have one on my street about 20 meters away from the VM boxes but will the fibre go to this box or to the larger ones closer to the city centre?

Most likely that one, or at least a new one will be built beside it to hold the equipment, yes.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Druchii

So, why do VM announce so much crap?

PR competition with BT / Sky. Simples.

m419 · 15-09-2009, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by soicky

http://www.broadbandwatchdog.co.uk/s...cabinet-pilot/

Seems the upload speed will bet better than virgin for some people and hopefully the price will be alot cheaper.

By completion Virgin Media will be offering 200MB broadband at the same price as todays 50MB.

BT take forever to do things and usually everything is expensive and poor quality.

And no, it won't be cheap BT will charge a fortune like they do already.

BT Total broadband option 3 or whatever it is costs £25 per month, and it offers UP TO 8MB, done a line test and they can offer me 1.5MB...........so that for £25 per month is bad when you think that Virgin Media can offer people on my street 20MB for the same price!

Also i'm sure I heard Virgin are offering 50MB for about the same price when you take a Virgin phone line and Virgin XL TV.

Ignitionnet · 15-09-2009, 18:24

Can I just point out to you that the FTTC service is nothing to do with BT Total Broadband or any other BT Retail product.

In addition the same issues that restrict you to 1.5Mbit are those issues which FTTC resolve - signal degredation due to distance from the exchange. This is not a matter of 'quality' this is a matter of the laws of physics. The same ones that FTTC changes the game of by placing the termination for the DSL circuit closer to the customer.

Neither you nor I have any idea what VM will be offering or what the price will be however there is no evidence that 200Mbit will be available at the same price as today's 50Mbit by 2012. No timescale for 200Mbit has been promised and certainly no pricing for it.

Clearly there are those who would disagree with you else VM's market share for Internet services would be 100% of homes passed, it is not even 50% of homes passed so evidently it's not as black and white as you claim.

I recommend you try reading some of the links and understanding what all this is about rather than simply saying 'Virgin rock, BT suck'.

I couldn't give a monkeys about either side, the BT deployment will improve competition and in turn improve the quality of VM products. I'm not actually so attached to my communications provider that I feel the need to sprint to their defense against the evils of competitors.

Why do you think VM are going to trial 10Mbit upstream? Purely a coincidence it's what BT are doing, right? Wrong.

15-09-2009, 18:26

All I can say is if this product is fairly priced when it is launched next year for me then without a sizable loyalty discount I will be saying bye bye VM at long last

BTW I am not holding my breath at a fair price but you never know lol

Ignitionnet · 15-09-2009, 18:35

This depends on the people supplying you the services as well.

Give me a mo I'll find the BT price list, what the SPs will actually be paying Openreach for the service.

For the confused there are 3 parts of BT that are 'relevant' to all this stuff.

BT Openreach: Will operate the FTTC service, they install the equipment in the cabinets, manage the cabinet mounted kit, do the customer installations, and manage the interconnects to the ISPs. This is the division of BT that manages the copper loop, the FTTC cabinet equipment is their jurisdiction alongside the copper.

BT Wholesale: As happens now, they will take feeds from BT Openreach and distribute them to ISPs who don't want to use Openreach directly. At present this is confined to taking copper circuits from BT Openreach and with the new equipment this will change so that they will take 1s and 0s, data, not a physical bit of copper. These guys are the equivalent of an LLU operator in that they purchase products directly from BT Openreach, however they do not sell to the general public, they use ISPs.

BT Retail: Will be one of the ISPs who will either directly sell the FTTC product having purchased interconnects directly from Openreach, or will use their existing BT Wholesale bandwidth. Equivalents of BT Retail are Zen and Plusnet, these are retail ISPs who do not have significant LLU networks but rely on BT Wholesale.

So it will either run, for billing purposes

BT Openreach <> LLU Operator <> End User

or

BT Openreach <> BT Wholesale <> Retail ISP (Such as BT Retail) <> End User

Network wise it's:

End User PC <Ethernet Cable> VDSL Modem <Openreach Copper> Openreach FTTC MSAN <Openreach Fibre> Handover Switch <Fibre Demarcation> LLU Operator Network <Big Fluffy IP Cloud> T'Internets

or

End User PC <Ethernet Cable> VDSL Modem <Openreach Copper> Openreach FTTC MSAN <Openreach Fibre> Handover Switch <Fibre Demarcation> BT Wholesale Network <Big Fluffy IP Cloud AKA 21CN> Retail ISP Network <Smaller Fluffy Cloud> T'Internets

This is no different from current arrangements.

This list is yet to feature the 40/10 product, but the charges from Openreach are here.

15-09-2009, 18:41

seems like there is room for a fair price there. I would be happy with 40 down 5 up

*sloman* · 16-09-2009, 17:32

i hoping this all comes sooner than later as competition drives down prices and that is only a good thing.

I don't care if VM, BT, Sky or Be* deliver my 1's and 0's as long as the price is right and the service is good

Horizon · 18-09-2009, 22:04

....I agree with that, but remain to be convinced whether BT's FTTC deployment will be as good, as BT say.

I've had a crackling BT line for donkey's years and remain skeptical, until proven otherwise, about BT's fast broadband plans. When it happens and when I can get it, I'll believe it.

Ignitionnet · 08-10-2009, 13:58

This is somewhat noteworthy.

Quote:

These FTTP and FTTC products will offer end users the highest upstream speeds currently available in the UK, at up to 10Mbit/s. These speeds are ideal for consumers or businesses wanting to send large files with rich graphics or upload pictures and videos in a fraction of the time that is possible using products with slower downstream speeds.

BT specifically making an 'issue' of upstream for the first time that I've seen.

Quote:

10Mbit/s Upstream speed to be launched in November to replace the existing 5Mbit/s Upstream product

So the options on BT's FTTC will now be 40/2 and 40/10, up from 40/2 and 40/5. Step in the right direction and they are only charging service providers an extra 25p/month for the 8Mbit of extra upstream.

Whee.