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Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?
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Old 05-10-2011, 13:08   #1
gingerbull
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Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

I'm after some advice - please bear with the long story :-)

I moved into a brand new house a couple of years back, a house inside VM's cable network - or so I thought. The house was built on what was formally some allotments adjacent to some established properties. The driveway, which is quite long, is block-paved, but the developer had the foresight to lay trunking from the very edge of the drive to the house itself, along with a draw-string to allow cable to be pulled through. When trying to get a VM installation I was told that it wasn't possible, since the tracking under the footpath terminated too far from my property, at the far edge of the neighbour's property - therefore the width of the neighbour's property away from the edge of mine. I was told that there was a limit of something like 3 meters that the VM installation teams would dig for an installation. That was that, until I was told that the rules had changed, and that digs of up to 10 metres were now possible. I tried again, the spotter told me that all should be well, and I signed up for an installation. The installation never happened, and when trying to find out why I was told that the distance between the end of the tracking and the start of my trunking wasn't an issue (it was about 8 meters), but that the installers had spotted that the BT cable was pulled through the same trunking. I was told in an email that "Once BT have used the duct it is their exclusive property and we cannot use it". Strictly, the trunking is my property, not BT's, but I'm sure that it too literal interpretation of what was meant. Nevertheless, given that VM's cable would fit easily alongside BT's cable, it does seem odd that VM are unable to proceed, though I accept that they feel their hands are tied.

I work a lot from home, and my work requires fast and reliable connectivity - my plan was to have both an ADSL and a fibre connection, so having the BT cable removed isn't really an option. As there is no physical reason why this can't happen I was wondering if the lateral thinking forum members could see a way around this situation that would allow me to get a VM installation.
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Old 05-10-2011, 20:00   #2
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Cables cannot share ducts, if BT has run a drop cable through that duct then nothing else can use it. Only other option is to lay a new trunking if possible.

Basically, your screwed. BT are good at this, they even do it on New Build sites where we put new duct in as well.
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Old 05-10-2011, 20:28   #3
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

VM can pull a cable through an empty duct, but not one that has a BT cable in. It's now 15 meters of pavement that can be dug to get you installed, does that help?

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Is there a telegraph pole outside your property? If yes the BT cable could go over head, freeing up the duct!
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Old 05-10-2011, 20:58   #4
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleguy View Post
VM can pull a cable through an empty duct, but not one that has a BT cable in. It's now 15 meters of pavement that can be dug to get you installed, does that help?

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Is there a telegraph pole outside your property? If yes the BT cable could go over head, freeing up the duct!
Your still counting on BT moving that cable though, and they have no obligation to do so. You could pay to have it shifted by Openreach, or disconnected and removed if your no longer a BT customer.
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Old 05-10-2011, 21:38   #5
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Seems like a stupid ruling, fair enough if bt laid the ducting it is their property but if u laid the ducting for convenience purposes like laying a duct under a driveway so u can run cables through it without digging up your driveway then the duct belongs to u, so why should bt claim it as their own, they didn't pay for the materials or the labour costs in laying the duct.

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

Does this ruling include interior trunking? As I have a load of network, telephone and coax cables running through some trunking including a vm coax for my superhub, and and a bt cable going to a master socket for my secondary infinity connection I'm ordering soon.
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Old 05-10-2011, 23:27   #6
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Remove the BT cable, get VM to do the install, put the cable back in yourself. Job done.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:51   #7
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq View Post
Remove the BT cable, get VM to do the install, put the cable back in yourself. Job done.
No do not do this, the cable is BT property, ownership of duct has nothing to do with this. Usage of duct is covered by the telecommunications act regardless of who fitted the duct.

If there is a cable in the duct, it cannot be used. Also, external cable is not shielded, hence the reason differing copper cables should not be placed in the same ducts.
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Old 06-10-2011, 23:58   #8
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

External coax isn't shielded? You kidding?
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:08   #9
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq View Post
External coax isn't shielded? You kidding?
it is shielded, telephone cables arent shielded though.

VM external cable is shielded,

Interior white and black cable I think is quad sheilded if i can remember.. although on the drum i noticed the other day they only say Tri Sheild.. but when i cut a cable offcut open it looks like quad

so,
foam,
foil shield,
braid,
further foil sheild



whereas the exterior cable is only Tri Shielded, could be wrong, so i will check in the morning as I have some off cuts floading around from past installs.

so,
foam,
foil shield,
braid,


will show a cross section later

but telephone cables arent normally shielded.

Last edited by RB2004; 07-10-2011 at 01:29.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:23   #10
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

External 540 and 860 coax is not shielded, Fibre is not shielded, Telco Copper is not shielded. Drop cable is shielded with a single foil, internal coax is triple shielded.
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Old 07-10-2011, 19:21   #11
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

All coax is by definition shielded. If it's not shielded it's not coax. If there were any problems with putting coax and pots in the same duct then VM's siamese cable would not exist.
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Old 07-10-2011, 19:42   #12
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Shield is another word for a condom. Let's play safe here guys!
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Old 07-10-2011, 19:43   #13
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Only if you're RP'ing
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Old 07-10-2011, 19:57   #14
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Smile Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

860 and 540 is shielded fibre does not have to as its light telco is not
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Old 07-10-2011, 20:37   #15
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Re: Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?

Silly question for technical person?
Could the duct if a given size allows, put 2 pipes inside larger duct.
Then 1 cable through each.
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