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Anonymous caller reject...
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Old 05-10-2010, 18:38   #1
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Anonymous caller reject...

I've had this service for some time and, up until recently, it performed pretty well. Of late, however, I notice that there are calls getting through and when I 1471 I get the message "We do not have the callers number".

This happened this evening and I rang VM customer services (Punjab branch) only to be told that I should phone the (FREE) TPS and register with them to make sure that I didn't receive any further calls.

When I asked why VM were charging me for a service which the CS operator themselves admitted was not fit for purpose and which they advised the TPS offer for free "People can withhold their number and get around our system but not the TPS system" there was a stunned silence.

Can any of the "in house" boffins who frequent CF explain the rationale?

Over to you chaps / chapettes.
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Last edited by Mr Angry; 05-10-2010 at 20:05.
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Old 05-10-2010, 19:16   #2
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
I've had this service for some time and, up until recently, it performed pretty well. Of late, however, I notice that there are calls getting through and when I 1471 I get the message "We do not have the callers number".

This happened this evening and I rang VM customer services (Punjab branch) only to be told that I should phone the (FREE) TPS and register with them to make sure that I didn't receive any further calls.

When I asked why VM were charging me for a service which the CS operator themselves admitted was not fit for purpose and which they advised thre TPS offer for free "People can withhold their number and get around our system but not the TPS system" there was a strunned silence.

Can any of the "in house" boffins who frequent CF explain the rationale?

Over to you chaps / chapettes.
"We do not have the callers number" means just that, the caller didn't with-hold it, but just didn't transmit it, these are normally overseas call centres

If someone in the UK has their number automatically with-held, then they will not be able to call you, unless they release their number first.

Anyone dialling 141 before calling will also be rejected from calling your line.

Last edited by Digital Fanatic; 05-10-2010 at 19:20. Reason: I can't type tonight! lol
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Old 05-10-2010, 19:58   #3
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic View Post
"We do not have the callers number" means just that, the caller didn't with-hold it, but just didn't transmit it, these are normally overseas call centres

If someone in the UK has their number automatically with-held, then they will not be able to call you, unless they release their number first.

Anyone dialling 141 before calling will also be rejected from calling your line.
Thanks for that.

However, if they "didn't with-hold it, but just didn't transmit it" then they are still,to all intents and purposes, anonymous.

I see someone else is getting nowhere on the same issue over on the official VM forum.

Plus ca change.
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Old 05-10-2010, 20:24   #4
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
Thanks for that.

However, if they "didn't with-hold it, but just didn't transmit it" then they are still,to all intents and purposes, anonymous.

I see someone else is getting nowhere on the same issue over on the official VM forum.

Plus ca change.
It's how it works though. It's the same on BT ( I had it on BT a few years ago). You can't stop all calls and it won't stop calls from overseas as they are not with-holding, they just don't transmit it.

If these type of calls are a problem, then caller display would better suit as you can see if it's with-held and if they are from overseas as it says "international" on the display.

Luisa is correct on the VM forum too.
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Old 05-10-2010, 20:45   #5
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

As DF says above these offshore call centres do not supply an ID and therefore slip through the net regardless of provider, also some UK companies use this when calling you so they leave no number for you to callback.

It can also be to do with the routing as certain operators will choose the cheapest route for your call, so for instance you could have a friend in Ireland call you but the system checks all switches and could route that call via Hong Kong or anywhere because the rate is the cheapest and sometimes because of that the number you see in caller display or even 1471 do not match the number they called from, complicated not half.
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Old 05-10-2010, 21:03   #6
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic View Post
It's how it works though. It's the same on BT ( I had it on BT a few years ago). You can't stop all calls and it won't stop calls from overseas as they are not with-holding, they just don't transmit it.
DF I appreciate where you are coming from on this but anyone not transmitting their number is anonymous to the intended receipient. How else could they be correctly described?

As such, someone who is paying Virgin Media not to receive anonymous (whether intentionally withheld or not) calls has reasonable grounds and cause to expect not to receive such calls.

Luisa is not correct. He / she asserts "Anonymous Caller Rejection (ACR) only prevents a caller who is purposely stopping their number from going through".

This is patently untrue.

A bonafide caller making a call through, for example, a work exchange will not be able to reach my number whether they intended witholding their number or not.

It is clear that someone somewhere has figured a workaround and Virgin seem intent on splitting hairs over someone who intentionally withholds their number and someone who intentionally withholds their number by not transmitting it.

Either way both instances have the same end result - an anonymous (whether that be unknown / untransmitted) number being able to call a subscriber who is paying their provider for a service to prevent such calls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic View Post
If these type of calls are a problem, then caller display would better suit as you can see if it's with-held and if they are from overseas as it says "international" on the display.
Well yes they are a problem because I'm paying not to receive them. I don't want the bother of having to screen my calls when I'm paying someone else to (supposedly) do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic View Post
Luisa is correct on the VM forum too.
I beg to differ, as indeed does does ibstockpeter, obviously.

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque View Post
As DF says above these offshore call centres do not supply an ID and therefore slip through the net regardless of provider, also some UK companies use this when calling you so they leave no number for you to callback.

It can also be to do with the routing as certain operators will choose the cheapest route for your call, so for instance you could have a friend in Ireland call you but the system checks all switches and could route that call via Hong Kong or anywhere because the rate is the cheapest and sometimes because of that the number you see in caller display or even 1471 do not match the number they called from, complicated not half.
Thanks for that insight Masque.

In effect they're offering a service they can't provide.
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Old 05-10-2010, 21:15   #7
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post




Thanks for that insight Masque.

In effect they're offering a service they can't provide.
Sadly all providers are in the same boat, have a look at that link I PMed you.
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Old 05-10-2010, 21:23   #8
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Smile Re: Anonymous caller reject...

These numbers that get through do you have caller display ? if so what does it say .
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Old 05-10-2010, 21:32   #9
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
DF I appreciate where you are coming from on this but anyone not transmitting their number is anonymous to the intended receipient. How else could they be correctly described?

As such, someone who is paying Virgin Media not to receive anonymous (whether intentionally withheld or not) calls has reasonable grounds and cause to expect not to receive such calls.

Luisa is not correct. He / she asserts "Anonymous Caller Rejection (ACR) only prevents a caller who is purposely stopping their number from going through".

This is patently untrue.

A bonafide caller making a call through, for example, a work exchange will not be able to reach my number whether they intended witholding their number or not.
It is clear that someone somewhere has figured a workaround and Virgin seem intent on splitting hairs over someone who intentionally withholds their number and someone who intentionally withholds their number by not transmitting it.

Either way both instances have the same end result - an anonymous (whether that be unknown / untransmitted) number being able to call a subscriber who is paying their provider for a service to prevent such calls.



Well yes they are a problem because I'm paying not to receive them. I don't want the bother of having to screen my calls when I'm paying someone else to (supposedly) do it.



I beg to differ, as indeed does does ibstockpeter, obviously.

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------



Thanks for that insight Masque.

In effect they're offering a service they can't provide.
We will just go around in circles, so I'll stop here
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Old 05-10-2010, 21:43   #10
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic View Post
We will just go around in circles, so I'll stop here
I wish the calls were as quick to stop.
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Old 05-10-2010, 23:49   #11
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
I wish the calls were as quick to stop.
he he
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Old 06-10-2010, 00:07   #12
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
I wish the calls were as quick to stop.

TPS really is quite effective in my experience, though it can take about a month to kick in. It's also quite funny to see how quickly cold callers hang up when you shout 'TPS' and 'illegal' at them
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:42   #13
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

The reason why numbers that are unavailable are allowed through is because (for reasons mentioned earlier) the caller isn't in a position to leave their number and so they would never be able to make contact at all. This is more of a problem than that of the OP because some of those calls can be for very important matters, whilst having to screen a sales call is merely inconvenient.

Virgin is now giving everyone free caller display so why not ask them for free call rejection too?

Besides, since it is now possible to fake the number transmitted, caller display has become less effective.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:07   #14
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

All the telecomms providors (UK and USA) I have looked at implement ACR in the same way. I have not been able to find an "official" definition and wonder if it is the exchange suppliers that decided how to do it.
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Old 06-10-2010, 13:19   #15
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Re: Anonymous caller reject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by inneedofhelp View Post
The reason why numbers that are unavailable are allowed through is because (for reasons mentioned earlier) the caller isn't in a position to leave their number and so they would never be able to make contact at all. This is more of a problem than that of the OP because some of those calls can be for very important matters, whilst having to screen a sales call is merely inconvenient.

Virgin is now giving everyone free caller display so why not ask them for free call rejection too?

Besides, since it is now possible to fake the number transmitted, caller display has become less effective.
Thank you
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