Dear Trevor Elliott ( MD CUSTOMER SERVICE )

[arcamalpha2004]

Hello Trevor, in response to your undated letter to me which arrived yesterday.

You claim that you have been recently making some improvements to the way you look after my bills.

Good on you Trev, but I should only receive one bill from VM, you see I only take Broadband from VM.

But lets carry on, you say that VM have noticed that I haven't been charged enough for my Telephone service, sorry Trev, but I was not aware that I had a Telephone Service from VM to pay for, I have that old fashioned copper wire telephone service that VM ridicule at every attempt, so lets carry on and see if VM can hear me optically.

You claim that the team have corrected the problem, again Trev I do not see that there was a problem to address, because I have BT as my telephone provider.

But the letter goes on, When your next bill arrives ( ah, good to see that you realise I should only get one bill, even if you dont know for which services ) take a look ( dont worry Trev I will ) and you'll see the correct cost.

The correct cost to me Trev is for Broadband only, because I have a Telephone account with BT.

And in ending, you say as this was our mistake, ( the mistake was sending this letter out Trev ) we wont ask you to pay the difference, we'll just make sure that we take the right amount from your next bill onwards.

Well Trev if you are to take the " Right amount " what was the point of the letter?

I understand that VM are desperate for customers, I am regularly bombarded with the propaganda material, but is this not over stepping the mark a bit?

Anyone else had a confusing letter from Trevor?

[BenMcr]

Unfortunately this is a standard letter that the Account Integrity Management (AIM) team are sending out

What it should have said, is 'we have noticed an error in the amount we are charging for your service and have corrected it'. It shouldn't have mentioned the telephone, or whether you were being under or overcharged (as the team identify and correct both) and I don't know why it does. Previous letters (if and when there have been) haven't mentioned which service it was for.

The reason the letter was sent is that previous account sweeps have been done with no notification barring the bill, which as you might imagine, was not popular. This was an attempt to give seperate notice. By the looks of it, some tweaking still needs to be done

What they are doing with these checks is making sure all accounts:
1) Are paying for the service they have and have the services they pay for, e.g paying for BB L but BB XL is provisioned on the modem or vice versa.
2) That discounts applied on an account are valid for the services. e.g. Customer has broadband only but is getting a TV discount.
3) Where appropriate, replacing legacy ex-ntl discounts with the current Virgin ones

[arcamalpha2004]

Ben, thanks for the reply.

Saying that some " Tweaking " needs to be done is missing the point, given that I only have BB with them, and also how many more of these phantom service letters have been sent out?

VM really do bring problems onto themselves by acting in this way.

Looks like its on the phone tuesday to find out what the hells going on.

Thanks anyway.

[arcamalpha2004]

Having contacted VM through e-mail it now appears that the letter I received referring to a telephone service was in fact about my broadband service.

Because of the incompetence of VM I suppose I expected nothing less.

Firstly some background from my part.

Last year I was having nightmare service on my 4mb broadband, it was no better than dial up.

So because they could not sort the issue I got onto retentions.

The guy I spoke to said he sympathised and offered a FREE upgrade to 20 mb.

I stated that if they could not give me the 4mb they were being paid for how could they give me the 20mb?

He stated that they could give the higher speed and that it would cost me no more.

Before I put the phone down I asked how long the offer was for, he stated 12 months, I would have to call again before the 12 months was up to speak to VM.

So since then the service has been fine, no issues from me.

Since I contacted VM about the " Telephone " letter I got this reply today.


"Thank you for your e-mail dated 23 March 2008 regarding your enquiry
into the letter received about your monthly service charges. I am sorry
that you have had cause to write to us about this.

Having checked your account I can confirm that the letter is correct.
On 17 September 2007 a discount was applied to your account for £12.00.
This was applied as a one month gesture, however this has continued
until March 2008, our audit team have noticed this error and removed the
discount. The correct monthly charge is now £37.00 for 20mb broadband.

This may not be the resolution you were hoping for, but can assure you
our information is now correct.

If you have further queries regarding this matter or any other issue,
please use the link provided below: "




I am puzzled to say the least, because as I said I was given this for 12 months and not the one month as they state.

This is my reply to that:


"Further to my enquiry about the letter received from virgin media about the change in charges to my account by virgin media and the subsequent reply from virgin media.
First of all the letter I received from you stipulated telephone service, stating that I was not paying enough, as I pointed out I do not have a telephone service from you, so the letter was wrong.
However, it now appears that in fact the letter should have referred to my broadband service.
Quote: "On 17 September 2007 a discount was applied to your account for £12.00.
This was applied as a one month gesture, however this has continued
until March 2008, our audit team have noticed this error and removed the
discount. The correct monthly charge is now £37.00 for 20mb broadband"

The above was given to me following a call to virgin media retentions because I was experiencing problems with my at the time 4mb service.
I had told the retention member that I wanted to cancel because there was no way that I was going to pay the amount I was then paying for the poor speed I was experiencing.
He offered a 20mb FREE upgrade so I did not leave virgin media, ofcourse now you will say there is no record of this.
I asked how long the offer was for and he said 12 months, so this is in contrast to the one month you state.
I have no intention of paying £37 for the 20mb service because as I have said this was given to me FREE because of virgin medias inability to provide me with the correct and proper service I should have been getting with 4mb.
Any attempt by virgin media to take £37 from my account will lead to small claims court action to recover monies owed and also the cancellation of my account.
I trust the above will not be required because this mess will be sorted out.
Yours sincerely,"

How do VM get away with offering such sub standard service is beyond me.

[BenMcr]

Because you should have not been offered that upgrade it the first place. As I've said in another thread the £12 upgrade was only supposed to be give to customers who:

1) had other services
2) had an upgrade on one of those services (ie TV L to XL or Phone M to L or XL)

If neither of those conditions applied, the offer should not have been given.

However one of the billing systems (the ex-ntl standalone broadband one) would allow you to apply the discount without those conditions being met.

As part of the billing migration these accounts are being identified and the incorrrectly offered discount removed.

The discount did not recontract and could be removed at any point after 30 days if the official conditions ceased to be met (i.e someone downgraded TV XL to L etc)

In future all discounts offered by Virgin have strict rules built into them to specifically stop this sort of thing happening.

It was the agent that you spoke to that did it wrong, not VM themselves

[arcamalpha2004]

Ok Ben thanks for the feedback.

However, the point is that the discount was applied in response to the poor service I was getting, and with regard your comment about ex-NTL, when the discount was applied it was under VM, so why would the ability to apply an NTL discount be there in the first place when the company was " now VM "

My feelings are that VM cannot be trusted, and anyone who has been " Given a discount " should be very wary.

Thanks again

Just to add, what are the odds that this person who applied the discount is still working for VM?

[BenMcr]

it was an ex-ntl billing system, that was designed and built for ntl.

The discount was a Virgin discount that ran from the start of Virgin in Feb 2007 to Dec 2007

The ex-ntl billing system is being fully discontinued by VM in May, but obviously they have still have to use it to bill for customers who have billing broadband on that system, so that is why the discount was on there.

If for instance, you were billed on the VM billing system, the agent would not have been allowed by that system to put the discount on the account, because the rules would not have been met

[arcamalpha2004]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

it was an ex-ntl billing system, that was designed and built for ntl.

The discount was a Virgin discount that ran from the start of Virgin in Feb 2007 to Dec 2007

The ex-ntl billing system is being fully discontinued by VM in May, but obviously they have still have to use it to bill for customers who have billing broadband on that system, so that is why the discount was on there.

If for instance, you were billed on the VM billing system, the agent would not have been allowed by that system to put the discount on the account, because the rules would not have been met

I appreciate what you say Ben.
But as I have said, I was told then that it was for 12 months.
Now there is no way that I am being called a liar ( not aimed at you ) because that is what I was told at the time.
In my books a verbal agreement is an agreement, and if they want to renege on that then they had better think carefully.

[beeman]

As part of the billing migration these accounts are being identified and the incorrrectly offered discount removed.

The discount did not recontract and could be removed at any point after 30 days if the official conditions ceased to be met (i.e someone downgraded TV XL to L etc)

In future all discounts offered by Virgin have strict rules built into them to specifically stop this sort of thing happening.

It was the agent that you spoke to that did it wrong, not VM themselves

whether or not the agent had the authority to do this HE DID enter VM into a 12 month LEGALLY BINDING contract to offer this service, and so VM do have a legal obligation to continue this offer until September. However the onus is on the customer to PROVE he was offered this for 12 months. Though the (small claims) court dose tend to believe the customer over the company in these sort of claims (especially when backed up by the many thousands of customers who have had similar discounts ILLEGALLY removed.

[BenMcr]

Virgin have a legal right to withdraw any price at any time with 30 days notice.

If it is substatial change (as this was) then the customer has a legal right to cancel their service with no penalty

Secion J3 from T&Cs

If:
we and/or Virgin Media Payments increase our charges under this agreement;
we make significant changes to the services so the services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced; or
we and/or Virgin Media Payments make significant changes to the terms and conditions of this agreement (including the other legal stuff),
you may cancel those services affected without penalty by giving us at least 30 days' notice in writing. If you cancel any services in these circumstances, the increased charges will not apply to those services during the 30 day notice period and paragraph J2 will not apply if you cancel before the end of the minimum period. If you do not give us notice of cancellation within 30 days of any increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you or, if later, receipt of your first bill following such increase in charges, we and Virgin Media Payments will assume that you have accepted the increase in charges and the changes to the services and this agreement and you will no longer be able to cancel your services under this paragraph.

Originally Posted by beeman

whether or not the agent had the authority to do this HE DID enter VM into a 12 month LEGALLY BINDING contract to offer this service, and so VM do have a legal obligation to continue this offer until September. However the onus is on the customer to PROVE he was offered this for 12 months. Though the (small claims) court dose tend to believe the customer over the company in these sort of claims (especially when backed up by the many thousands of customers who have had similar discounts ILLEGALLY removed.

I agree that the resonable thing to do *might* have been to say, based on the circumstances surrounding the credit in the first place (and obviously each case in different), we can extend it to September.

But to take a company to the small claims court for breach of contract, would not have to prove you were out of pocket before/when you took them to court? I didn't think you could sue for future 'errors'

[arcamalpha2004]

Ben, I am going to be " out of pocket " paying for a service that VM gave me for 12 months, forget the argument that it was the agent that gave the discount, that agent was and in all likelyhood still is employed by VM.

So yes, between whenever VM decide to increase the price and when the offer was supposed to end I can claim for compensation, plus inconvenience and interest also.

The other side of the coin is Ben, VM have assumed that I want to keep the 20mb service by stating that the new payment will be £37 per month.

Anyone else who has been ripped off in this manner, I suggest they do the same.

Sorry Ben but in my eyes they have acted like snakes in the grass.

[BenMcr]

If you do not wish to keep the broadband at the price that it will now be you have two choices.

Either phone them up and see if they can give you a proper reduction based on the official price list, or close the account which would be actioned in 30 days time

I know it is a harsh choice, but the only way Virgin are going to move forward and improve their billing accuracy is get to point where all the incorrect prices are removed.

[handyman]

The problem Ben is that Virgin have offered a product (20meg broadband) over a contracted period (12 months) at a set rate (£37 less £12 Discount = £25).

I fully understand that there is a large amount of inconsistent and badly applied discounts but the thing to do in this instance would be to read the account history, contact the customer and have a system where a manager could login and apply the £12 discount making sure it ended in September as agreed.

What also should happen is that the customer should be contacted 1 month prior to that discount being retracted and offered to keep the service at £37 or downgrade back to the price point they were at. After all they customer only wanted 4mb service in the first place.

[arcamalpha2004]

Originally Posted by handyman

The problem Ben is that Virgin have offered a product (20meg broadband) over a contracted period (12 months) at a set rate (£37 less £12 Discount = £25).

I fully understand that there is a large amount of inconsistent and badly applied discounts but the thing to do in this instance would be to read the account history, contact the customer and have a system where a manager could login and apply the £12 discount making sure it ended in September as agreed.

What also should happen is that the customer should be contacted 1 month prior to that discount being retracted and offered to keep the service at £37 or downgrade back to the price point they were at. After all they customer only wanted 4mb service in the first place.

Handyman thanks for that.

Virgin media cannot even get it right in the first place.

They said it was to do with my Telephone service, I do not have a Telephone Service with them, I am with BT.

They made out in the letter that a mistake was spotted, well it helps in the first place if the so called mistake relates to a bloody service I am getting.

Ben, VM are saying it was an incorrect discount, in my eyes, and certainly to my ears at the time it was 12 Months, why when I was seething with the PP speed on 4 meg I was getting would I agree to a £12 or one month reduction, around the time this happened it was well known for VM to give 12 months and that is what I heard from the agent.

The letter simply says that there is nothing to worry about that they will make sure in future I pay the correct payment, as Handyman says they have not even had the decency to do things right.

I am still awaiting a reply to my follow up email from them, I want this issue sorted to my satisfaction, not to the benefit of VM'S bank account.

---------- Post added at 13:36 ---------- Previous post was at 13:30 ----------

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If you do not wish to keep the broadband at the price that it will now be you have two choices.

Either phone them up and see if they can give you a proper reduction based on the official price list, or close the account which would be actioned in 30 days time

I know it is a harsh choice, but the only way Virgin are going to move forward and improve their billing accuracy is get to point where all the incorrect prices are removed.

Ben it was " a proper reduction " in my eyes that I got last year.
Aswell as removing " so called incorrect " prices they should get their facts right in the first place, particularly when writing to customers about accounts they do not have.

As I have said before that agent would not have applied the discount if ( a ) VM did not approve of it or ( B ) if he would have said it was only for a month, because I would have told him to pull the plug on the account.

I appreciate people having loyalty to their employer, but VM really do take the proverbial.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

As I have said before that agent would not have applied the discount if ( a ) VM did not approve of it or ( B ) if he would have said it was only for a month, because I would have told him to pull the plug on the account.

Do you wanna bet. All Customer Relations staff work on commision. Each disconnect or save counts. By him putting on that discount for you he will have got a 'save' meaning more commision for him. Hes not bothered about the after effects as its unlikey you'd go back to him so he dosn't have to deal with it. As the staff are targeted on their save rates and credit spend (how much credit they have to put on the account) he's benifited and some other poor staff member will have to clean up the mess and take a hit on thier credit spend or take a disconnection.

My advice. Ask to speak to only the person that made the offer to you. Make them take the hit and make them accountable and have to deal with you. Then once you've done that and they've resoved the problem and given you the deal that was promised don't leave it at that. Make a formal written complaint about the person and the fact of all the problems you've had since.