New customers vs Old customers

[BenMcr]

The previous price for XXL was £52 before discounts

The price for XXL now is £45 before discounts.

Therefore the price has dropped.

In both cases if you also have a phone line you recieve(d) a £17 discount (at least). Making the total price for BB XXL + Phoneline the advertised price both before and after the price drop.

I'm unsure how this is difficult to understand?

---------- Post added at 02:01 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

And if you really can't understand lets try some really simple sums shall we?

£28 + £11 = £39. So this is the amount you pay if you take the advertised price for XXL and the one everyone seems to be so hung up about.

(£45 - £17) + £11 = £39. This is exactly the same figure and is the amount you pay if you take the advertised price for XXL as it appears on the bill

The only figure that really matters is the total. This should match the price that was agreed when the services were taken out (or after any notified price changes)

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The previous price for XXL was £52 before discounts

The price for XXL now is £45 before discounts.

Therefore the price has dropped.

In both cases if you also have a phone line you recieve(d) a £17 discount (at least). Making the total price for BB XXL + Phoneline the advertised price both before and after the price drop.

I'm unsure how this is difficult to understand?

---------- Post added at 02:01 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

And if you really can't understand lets try some really simple sums shall we?

£28 + £11 = £39. So this is the amount you pay if you take the advertised price for XXL and the one everyone seems to be so hung up about.

(£45 - £17) + £11 = £39. This is exactly the same figure and is the amount you pay if you take the advertised price for XXL as it appears on the bill

The only figure that really matters is the total. This should match the price that was agreed when the services were taken out (or after any notified price changes)

No Ben - the customers here nearly ALL disagree with you. They want transparency. They want their bills to show the current headline price at each reduction point. The customers don't want to see artificial discounts applied.

It isn't even difficult to understand how VM got into this pickle.

VM have an arbitrary process for granting discounts over the telephone to disgruntled customers. This gets mixed in with bundle discounts which can/should properly be shown in the bill.

So, VM understandably (but wrongly) wish to avoid hassle with customers who want to see their loyalty discount (that's what it might well say on the bill) protected in addition to the headline price.

If VM offer on their web site a headline price to customers irrespective of whether or not they are new or three months old, then a true loyalty discount should survive all price changes. Of course this is economically unsustainable for VM and hence this unfortunate pickle and hence the weasel worded duplicity.

To put this right, VM should revise its discount policy and description. The terms & conditions should make clear that users may remain on their existing contract (with prices and discounts) or move to a new contract at the current prices for the minimum 12 month period. Customers can argue the detail of this, but the principle is sound; an entitlement to move to new pricing according to what suits your pocket best.

VM has got itself into this disreputable mess and needs to honourably extract itself. BT will soon get its act together and they have wider coverage than VM and eventual desertion is the final option available to p*ssed off customers. P*ss off too many and VM is under threat.

Simples.

[Sir John Luke]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

No Ben - the customers here nearly ALL disagree with you. They want transparency. They want their bills to show the current headline price at each reduction point. The customers don't want to see artificial discounts applied.

It isn't even difficult to understand how VM got into this pickle.

VM have an arbitrary process for granting discounts over the telephone to disgruntled customers. This gets mixed in with bundkle discounts whichcan/should properly be shown in the bill.

So, VM understandably (but wrongly) wish to avoid hassle with customers who want to see their loyalty discount (that's what it might well say on the bill) protected in addition to the headline price.

If VM offer on their web site a headline price to customers irrespective of whether or not they are new or three months old, then a true loyalty discount should survive all price changes. Of course this is economically unsustainable for VM and hence this unfortunate pickle and hence the weasel worded duplicity.

To put this right, VM should revise its discount policy and description. The terms & conditions should make clear that users may remain on their existing contract (with prices and discounts) or move to a new contract at the current prices for the minimum 12 month period. Customers can argue the detail of this, but the principle is sound; an entitlement to move to new pricing according to what suits your pocket best.

VM has got itself into this disreputable mess and needs to honourably extract itself. BT will soon get its act together and they have wider coverage than VM and eventual desertion is the final option available to p*ssed off customers. P*ss off too many and VM is under threat.

Simples.

Excellent post - but will anyone take any notice? I doubt it. However the upcoming OFT review on pricing may help.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/2009/126-09

[Saint man]

All I have and want is Broadband, don't want phoneline, don't want TV, don't want mobile. I signed up years ago and am currently paying £25 for my Broadband only package. What really annoys me is that new customers get this £5 a month cheaper! WHY?
I am out of contract, don't want to sign a new one, but why am i being shafted to the tune of £60 a year??

[RobboEdin]

Originally Posted by Saint man

All I have and want is Broadband, don't want phoneline, don't want TV, don't want mobile. I signed up years ago and am currently paying £25 for my Broadband only package. What really annoys me is that new customers get this £5 a month cheaper! WHY?
I am out of contract, don't want to sign a new one, but why am i being shafted to the tune of £60 a year??

You were happy with the price when you contracted for the service and are now out of contract. Sign up for a new contract and you will get the £20 price. Why not take the cheaper price for the want of signing up for a 12 month contract?

[Saint man]

I know I could sign a new contract, but why should I have to, why should I be tied to another contract. My point is why the difference in price, surely there should be a set rate for a particular service. A new customer going to Sainsburys for the first time, should not expect to buy a tin of beans or what ever, cheaper than the same tin that someone who has shopped there for years! Why can't ISPs act the same?

[BenMcr]

If you went into Sainsbury's and bought a tin of beans at 20p, and the 3 years later the same beans were 10p, you couldn't go back and claim the different because it would a different transaction

The same applies to your price. The transaction that gave you that price as several years ago - a different transaction now results in a different price.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If you went into Sainsbury's and bought a tin of beans at 20p, and the 3 years later the same beans were 10p, you couldn't go back and claim the different because it would a different transaction

The same applies to your price. The transaction that gave you that price as several years ago - a different transaction now results in a different price.

Don't be ridiculous.

In the case of the XXL service where there is an explicit statement from VM that existing customers would get the lower price your analogy crashes into the ground.

I noticed that you steered clear of my reasoned argument a few posts back.

It's murkier on the XL service because I haven't seen an "existing customers" statement. VM could knock this on the head very simply by making it clear in large letters somewhere that existing customers wishing to benefit from the new headline price should sign up to a new 12 month contract. SIMPLES.

[pdjkeelan]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If you went into Sainsbury's and bought a tin of beans at 20p, and the 3 years later the same beans were 10p, you couldn't go back and claim the different because it would a different transaction

The same applies to your price. The transaction that gave you that price as several years ago - a different transaction now results in a different price.

There's a difference between beans and internet... with internet it's a recurring transaction, with beans it's a single transaction... if i was to be charged monthly for a can of beans i.e. i placed it on my online shopping to be placed every month then they would be given the 'current' price.

Comparing beans and internet really is a poor choice. Retail product prices differ from day to day and people would be given the new price from day to day they wouldn't have to pay the price from 2 years ago just because they originally bought it at that price 2 years ago...

[BenMcr]

Ok then look at mobile phones. There you do continue to pay the original contract price, unless you do something - which usually involves a recontract

[Saint man]

Beans may be a poor example, but at the time of going into the shop said beans are price X for everybody. What they cost 2/3 years ago does not matter. My arguement still is why shoud a new customer get the beans cheaper. Surely as said there should be a set price.
I know I am not going to win this arguement, but loyalty counts for nothing. I will be looking around to see what price the beans are in Tesco's

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Ok then look at mobile phones. There you do continue to pay the original contract price, unless you do something - which usually involves a recontract

Ben

There's no point scrabbling for an analogy. O2's contract terms are very clear and there is none of the obfuscation, lack of clarity and price contrivance that we have with VM.

I'cve even suggested how VM can extricate themselves from their pickle.

Peoples will draw their own conclusions that you have not commented on my post explaining the pickle VM had got itself into - and which the mobile phone vendors haven't, I might add.

Can of worms, never mind the can of beans.

[pdjkeelan]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Ben

There's no point scrabbling for an analogy. O2's contract terms are very clear and there is none of the obfuscation, lack of clarity and price contrivance that we have with VM.

I'cve even suggested how VM can extricate themselves from their pickle.

Peoples will draw their own conclusions that you have not commented on my post explaining the pickle VM had got itself into - and which the mobile phone vendors haven't, I might add.

Can of worms, never mind the can of beans.

I have to say... Virgin Mobile does have very nice contracts too, well marked out, well priced and no hassle ... I wish the Media element of Virgin would follow suit when it comes to the pricing structure.

[sladedestiny]

Its Typical of Virgin Medias headless chicken syndrome. Depending on who you speak to and at what time of the day.

I have been a customer for around 8 years. In that time I have had no end of problems including being asked why I wanted certain services considering I was deaf!! A month or so ago I too wanted to upgrade to 50meg broadband. At the time it said NOTHING about new customers and I believe the price advertised was £28 per month. Great I thought I'll have some of that and see if for once Virgin Media can actually DO something that is supposed to be simple.

How wrong I was.

The price suddenly jumped from £28 to £55 per month! AS I WASN'T A NEW CUSTOMER.
Also when checking the Virgin site the advisor admitted that it was misleading and promised to express her findings so it could be changed.

I have a whole file full of Virgin Media cock-ups and misleads. Without doubt the worse company I have ever come across and as i have moved around a few times in the last 8 years I have been constantly hampered by being forced to start a new 12 month contract each time I have moved house.Otherwise I would have left long ago. I can't wait for this contract to end so I can find a company that doesn't crap on it's existing customers whilst dangling carrots in the faces of prospective new ones!!!!

I went from 20 meg to 50 meg and pay £28 a month( plus phone line and none DD and paper bill) and have been with them a good number of years also