Not a lifetime offer

[cimt]

If you get a deal with VM then ask for email confirmation or a letter with confirmation. As far as I remember, they're required to do it if you ask them to do it.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by cimt

If you get a deal with VM then ask for email confirmation or a letter with confirmation. As far as I remember, they're required to do it if you ask them to do it.

by law a company has to do that if you request it.

[BenMcr]

AFAIK Written confirmation is only required if it is a new contract.

[JethroUK]

After getting a quote - i don't wait for the bill to come (wrong) - i usually call a few days later and just ask them (don't tell them) what my charges are - they don't usually mind

[the-cable-guy]

thats not like VM to not mind normally its like trying to get blood out of a stone, to just get what you pay for.

[N00N00]

I too have a lifetime offer. I have had the offer confirmed by several members of staff and I have all their names.

Additionally - to avoid any confusion the staff have kind used the terms "forever" "for as long as you want it", "permanently" etc

Ntl kept breaching the contract every 2 months repeatedly for over a year. Then the Virgin takeover came along and this was used as another excuse to try to overcharge me, though they eventually reinstated everything.

Now the combined bills have come along and once again they're trying it on.

What people don't appreciate is that the breach of contract isn't the only issue here. It is the breach of contract, combined with such complicated billing, combined with the fact that Virgin never actually inform you that they are about to start ripping you off.

On every occasion without fail they just start overcharging you. No letters or phone calls to say anything is changing. They just take all this money which just doesn't belong to them and then you have to fight like anything to get iy back.

Breaching the contracts is disgusting enough, but the manner in which they do it makes it considerably worse.

Incidentally I have lifetime contracts with both O2 and Orange. Orange once tried to get out of theirs but soon realised they could not do so. Other than that I have had no real problems in the 5 years those contracts have been running.

Additionally for those saying how costs always rise - well take a look at your landline or mobile bills from say 10 years ago or internet access costs and compare with today.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by N00N00

I too have a lifetime offer. I have had the offer confirmed by several members of staff and I have all their names.

Then I would a formal complaint about those members of staff. Because they have not been give the authority by Virgin Media to offer lifetime deals. No-one in Virgin Media has been given the authority to offer lifetime deals.

The maximum anyone, this includes the CEOs office, can offer any price for is 12 months. That is it

[JethroUK]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Then I would a formal complaint about those members of staff. Because they have not been give the authority by Virgin Media to offer lifetime deals.

You can't pass the book - this is old ground - legally! - a member of Virgin Media staff is employed by Virgin Media to act as Virgin Media's agent - as far as the consumer is concerned (and consumer law) they are Virgin Media

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The maximum anyone, this includes the CEOs office, can offer any price for is 12 months. That is it

Crap - you know it is (unless the VM brainwashing machine is really that good) - when Skygate reared it head Virgin Media (not their staff acting irresponsibly) ***** themselves and was offering ridiculous lifetime deals to stem the mass exodus from Virgin - they may be promises they can't keep - but those promises were made - it wasn't for some 1-2 months afterwards that virgin media (not their staff) decided to insist on new 12 month contracts

To say anything other is simply *****ting on the little people (VM staff) - when they are not even remotely responsible for acting under direct instruction of Virgin Media

.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by JethroUK

You can't pass the book - this is old ground - legally! - a member of Virgin Media staff is employed by Virgin Media to act as Virgin Media's agent - as far as the consumer is concerned (and consumer law) they are Virgin Media

No-one in Virgin has EVER been told by management 'You have the authority to offer customer this price forever'.

Therefore, for any employee to do so is breaking their own employment term with the company.

This is exactly the same as a McDonalds employee giving their friends free food or HMV staff giving their friends free CDs. It is also no different that a Virgin install offering a chipped box.

Virgin would have the legal right (as set out in consumer law and their own T&Cs) to give one months notice and withdraw any offer made that was unauthorised.

Neither CISAS or OFCOM could make Virgin honour a price past that legal notice. All they could do is make sure the customer paid the offer price till the notice ended and if it significatly altered the price, offer the termination of contract without penalty

Crap - you know it is (unless the VM brainwashing machine is really that good) - when Skygate reared it head Virgin Media (not their staff acting irresponsibly) ***** themselves and was offering ridiculous lifetime deals to stem the mass exodus from Virgin - they may be promises they can't keep - but those promises were made - it wasn't for some 1-2 months afterwards that virgin media (not their staff) decided to insist on new 12 month contracts

Actually it WAS the Staff. Virgin have a set of retention bundles that work exactly the same as the standard prices. X,Y and Z services for Price A. If any agent 'added' to these bundles, againts the briefing by Virgin, then it was purely down to that member of staff.

FYI the only specific offers introduced by Virgin to offset the loss of the Sky channels was a 6 month reduction on the TV bundle. That was it.

The reason the 12 month contracts for Customer Relations offers was for business reasons. Why should Virgin offer a substantial discount off their standard price without something in return from the customer? Virgin are a business, not a charity

To say anything other is simply *****ting on the little people (VM staff) - when they are not even remotely responsible for acting under direct instruction of Virgin Media.

Yes it is ****ting of the C**P staff that offered the deals when they shouldn't. Virgin DID NOT INSTRUCT their agents to offer 'lifetime' deals.

[JethroUK]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

No-one in Virgin has EVER been told by management 'You have the authority to offer customer this price forever'.Therefore, for any employee to do so is breaking their own employment term with the company.

A/ They were! - Too may people were offered "lifetime deal"s, in-those-words, for it to be anything other than acting under instuction

B/ whether they were or not didn't stop them all doing so - and they were acting as Virgin Media agents - and breaches of their personal employment terms does not exempt VM from consumer law

Originally Posted by BenMcr

This is exactly the same as a McDonalds employee giving their friends free food or HMV staff giving their friends free CDs.

not only isn't it 'exactly' the same but it isn't even 'similar' - the sole motive for those employees giving away freebies is because the recipients were 'friends' - by contrast the VM employees were quite clearly acting under instruction - even more transparent is VM now dumping on employees to cover up their own blunder and this is the line you've been fed (and swallowed) - if VM thought for one second they were acting correctly they wouldn't be erasing these discounts discretely (£10 hike here, another £10 hike there)

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Virgin would have the legal right...

VM haven't got a leg to stand on - well they have - because all these promises were made verbally so they can/have lied - but there is enough paper evidence (in the shape of bills) to leave no room for doubt

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Neither CISAS or OFCOM could make Virgin honour a price...

That depends whether the recipent has suffered damages as a result of the breech in contract - that's what most judges would be looking at & not many could prove damages as a result of a TV service being increased in price - and that's why VM has no fear of being sued - of course companies with a very high profile can get punished much more by the public (bad publicity) than anything the courts can do - and hence all this sweeping under the carpets and dumping on employees


.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by JethroUK

A/ They were! - Too may people were offered "lifetime deal"s, in-those-words, for it to be anything other than acting under instuction

No they were not. I cannot stress how strongly they were not under instruction from Virgin. AT NOT POINT DID ANY BRIEF EVER COME FROM VIRGIN TO ANY OF ITS STAFF SAYING THEY HAD LIFETIME OFFERS. EVER

There is a difference between a price that does not expire and a lifetime offer.

B/ whether they were or not didn't stop them all doing so - and they were acting as Virgin Media agents - and breaches of their personal employment terms does not exempt VM from consumer law

Didn't say it did. However consumer law doesn't force a company to keep a customer on.

not only isn't it 'exactly' the same but it isn't even 'similar' - the sole motive for those employees giving away freebies is because the recipients were 'friends' - by contrast the VM employees were quite clearly acting under instruction - even more transparent is VM now dumping on employees to cover up their own blunder and this is the line you've been fed (and swallowed) - if VM thought for one second they were acting correctly they wouldn't be erasing these discounts discretely (£10 hike here, another £10 hike there)

They were not acting under instruction and I hope every single employee that has ever offered 'lifetime' deals has been sacked. Because they should not be working for Virgin.

Virgin has not, and does not dump on employees that actually bother to follow what the company does and doesn't do. If for any reason the company 'dumps' on employees not doing their job, then that is exactly what they should be doing.

Also Virgin have every right as business to correct any price that does not match an authorised price list. I doubt you would find any other company be it BT, Sky, TalkTalk, be broadband etc allowing anything that wasn't on an authorised list.

and this is the line you've been fed (and swallowed)

I take personal offence at this. I give my free time and energy to come on this site to try and help people. Because I choose to. I also have enough of a brain to know when I am being fed spin from any company and to know what the f is actually going on.

To say I have 'swallowed' a line is downright patronising and if that is the way you see staff working for a company, I feel sorry for them when they speak to you.

That depends whether the recipent has suffered damages as a result of the breech in contract - that's what most judges would be looking at & not many could prove damages as a result of a TV service being increased in price - and that's why VM has no fear of being sued - of course companies with a very high profile can get punished much more by the public (bad publicity) than anything the courts can do - and hence all this sweeping under the carpets and dumping on employees.

How did this get from OFCOM and CISAS to a judge?

Again. If there had been at anytime a memo or a brief or an e-mail saying 'offer customers lifetime deals that we are not going to keep but do it anyway' then fine slate Virgin all you like and I would as well because that is no way to run a business.

You will not find any such instruction.

Yes, there are retention bundles that price match against certain competitors. They are the same now that they were in December 2006.

Yes, when the Sky channels disappeared a couple (and no more) specific discounts were offered to offset this. Or people could cancel their contract without penalty

Anything that was offered above and beyond what Virgin laid out is down to the member of staff exceeding their authority. Nothing More Nothing Less.

At the end of the day, anyone who has had a 'lifetime' offer removed has the following choices. Speak to Virgin and renegotiate, Leave Virgin and go elsewhere, take them to CISAS, sue Virgin in the courts, , or shut up.

That is it. 5 choices. Pick one and do it.

[frogstamper]

I can understand perfectly what Ben is saying, it seems to me some people don't want to listen. VM agents offering lifetime deals were not doing it with the consent or under the instruction of the VM management, I think Ben has made that crystal clear. Also he has done it with a cool head without throwing insults at other posters, which is more than can be said for others.

[hokkers999]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

There is a difference between a price that does not expire and a lifetime offer.

Not to appear to be TOO picky, but there is NO difference between the two. If the price doesn't expire then it carries on until either I leave or I die, AKA a LIFETIME deal. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot

[BenMcr]

Not at all

A lifetime offer is a price that stays the same no matter what, for the length of the time that you have the services. Neither ntl/telewest or Virgin Media have EVER authorised this sort of offer.

An offer that doesn't expire means it has no end date (i.e will continue after the 12 months minimum term has ended), but is not and will not be guaranteed to go on indefinately or at the same price

Any Virgin Media standard bundle (i.e the 3 for £30) is an offer than does not expire, as anyone on a VM standard bundle from Feb 2007 is still on it now.

Other offers like the 3 for £30 with XL tv has a part of the offer that does expire as the price rises after 12 months. However, again the core bundle does not expire and continues

ntl discounts from 4 years ago are still around now. I would call those offers that don't expire

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by hokkers

Not to appear to be TOO picky, but there is NO difference between the two. If the price doesn't expire then it carries on until either I leave or I die, AKA a LIFETIME deal. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Not at all

A lifetime offer is a price that stays the same no matter what, for the length of the time that you have the services.

An offer that doesn't expire means it has no end date (i.e will continue after the 12 months minimum term has ended), but is not and will not be guaranteed to go on indefinately or at the same price

Any Virgin Media standard bundle (i.e the 3 for £30) is an offer than does not expire, as anyone on a VM standard bundle from Feb 2007 is still on it now.

Other offers like the 3 for £30 with XL tv has a part of the offer that does expire as the price rises after 12 months. However, again the core bundle does not expire and continues

ntl discounts from 4 years ago are still around now. I would call those offers that don't expire

Oh dear it looks like that bullet just ricocheted and hit your foot hokkers