VM reneging on ex-NTL competitive discounts

Originally Posted by Dunderhead

Thank you MrB, you have described my own experience of being offered a loyalty package very nicely.

This was clearly shown on my NTL bills as LOYALTY PACK BB/ PHONE

The deal was offered to me unconditionally, i.e. without time-limit and I was not asked to sign a new 12 month agreement, or to agree to such a conditional agreement orally. However, as a consequence of my accepting an offer, we legally entered into a contract.



Again, my loyalty discount put my revised NTL deal about 50p per month lower than the Sky deal at the time.

I find it very hard to belive they have removed your loyalty pack. These are on going discounts and I've never seen one thats been removed.

Can you list how your bill used to show and the we will be able to tell you whats been removed.

[Dunderhead]

Originally Posted by Akia

I find it very hard to belive they have removed your loyalty pack. These are on going discounts and I've never seen one thats been removed.

Can you list how your bill used to show and the we will be able to tell you whats been removed.

WOW! 5 days ago you were adamant that my loyalty discount was a billing mistake - please check your posting of 2nd March on this thread. Pleased to see that you now recognise the loyalty discounts were ongoing.

If you do a websearch for virginmedia letter trevor elliott billing mistake, you will find that my situation is far from unique.

My NTL bills showed LOYALTY PACK BB/ PHONE (see earlier thread replies for details) (and your own reply above)

Thanks for confirming that these loyalty packs were ongoing discounts, rather than temporary agreements.

No 5 days ago I said some staff would do anything to get a save and apply offeres or make changes to accounts that were not company sanctioned. I then also advised you to call Custoemr Relations who would put you on a proper offical company Loyalty Pack

"Whats the problem. Instead of spitting the dummy out why don't you give them a ring. They do have loyalty discounts that undercut Sky. Then they can apply a offer to your account that is correct and dosn't show on the account as errors. If VM were reneging on the offers they had given they would have pulled the current retention deals which tend to give far greater discount then any of the NTL offers did,"

VM offer about 9 diff loyalty packs each one under cuts a different provider in some way or other. I.e Pack 3 Under Cuts Talk Talk, Pack 9 Under Cuts Sky. These will not be removed by the company as they are ongoing.

I'm still waiting for you to post a break down of the discounts that you wre getting before. As if they were only under cutting Sky by 50p then its quite easy for themto change you to one of these deals.

I'm now getting the impressions that your just trolling or you were actually discounted upto the hilts and your not happy that they have now taken away some of these discounts. Which they are entitilled to do from there T&C's:

You must pay the charges for the services as set out in our price guides or as otherwise notified to you, together with any value added tax or other applicable taxes. We can change the charges as set out in paragraph H3, but if we do so, this may entitle you to end this agreement. You can read more about this in paragraph J3

1. We and/or Virgin Media Payments may change our respective charges at any time. We will publish any change in the monthly charges made by us and/or Virgin Media Payments on our website and we and Virgin Media Payments will do our best to give you notice of the change at least one month before the change takes effect. Any changes to our usage charges and tariffs will be published on our website and will be reflected on your next bill.

Please prove me wrong by providing a actually break down of what services you've got and what you are paying.

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Dunderhead

No, I have not been offered a deal to stay. I spent half an hour on the phone and the Customer Relations person would only extend my current contract for another 30 days, which was pointless because the next day I received my BB bill for a new rate.

They haven't told me either what their proposed increase will be, the letter was silent on that matter. I know what the new BB rate is because I have received a bill but I haven't received a phone bill so I don't know what changes they have made.

I have written to Trevor Elliott and asked for an explanation. I have also told him politely that his letter is dishonest because it doesn't reflect the true situation, i.e. they have reviewed historical agreements and decided to cancel them, blaming billing mistakes.

I haven't given my notice yet because that would make it even harder to get their attention.

I am giving VM a chance to respond formally before I move to the next stage (which isn't me walking away muttering).

Well the fact that you were getting you broadband discounted and getting a loyalty packaged is wrong to start with. When VM put on a Loyalty discount all the discount is always applied to the Telco and TV bill.

Also no discount on the bbi is ongoing, the are normally for 3, 6 or 12 months. And some please correct me if I'm wround but noramlly show on the bill as for example Half Price BBI 3months.

[Kweefy]

I must admit, after being with Virgin Media as an ex-NTL/exComTEL customer for over 10 years now we were placed on a Loyalty Pack Broadband/Phone a couple of years ago. After the Telewest NTL merger and launch of Virgin Media we decided to update our package to the best possible VIP pack. Last month we noticed we were being over-billed by £73 per calendar month.

Upon contacting Virgin Media, they informed me it was due to the previously mentioned Loyalty Pack Broadband/Phone still being charged for, on top of our current VIP package. Virgin Media almost immediately reversed the error and have credited our account with almost £900.

Coming back on topic, after looking at my bills from NTL going back 4 years, it clearly states:

Loyalty Pack Broadband/Phone 2 - £10.99
Loyalty Pack TV 3 - £5.00

---

These "Loyalty Packs" were placed on our account due to a local fault taking our broadband offline for almost 7 days. They were not removed from the account as stated above, untill last month. So for 4 years, we paid £15.99 for the highest TV, Internet and Phone packages available from NTL.

Are you sure they were "Loyalty" Packs,

I always thought NTL had "Value" Packs

[Dunderhead]

Originally Posted by Akia

No 5 days ago I said some staff would do anything to get a save and apply offeres or make changes to accounts that were not company sanctioned. I then also advised you to call Custoemr Relations who would put you on a proper offical company Loyalty Pack

"Whats the problem. Instead of spitting the dummy out why don't you give them a ring. They do have loyalty discounts that undercut Sky. Then they can apply a offer to your account that is correct and dosn't show on the account as errors. If VM were reneging on the offers they had given they would have pulled the current retention deals which tend to give far greater discount then any of the NTL offers did,"

Yes but you also said:

Originally Posted by Akia

It was never their business practice at all. Some unethical staff would do anything to get a "save" this included offering deals that were not legitimate offers. This included changing a account in such a way that a offer would go on but shouldn't have been there. This was mainly because the old NTL billing system didn't have checks in place to make sure this didn't happen. The old Telewest system which is now VM's main billing system does. This will now show as errors on the account, which is what VM will have picked up on. Do you think the orginal advisor will have left proper notes on the account saying this is what they did. I doubt it which is why now VM have simply picked it up as a billing error.

Which is why I said that you claimed my loyalty pack was a billing mistake.

VM offer about 9 diff loyalty packs each one under cuts a different provider in some way or other. I.e Pack 3 Under Cuts Talk Talk, Pack 9 Under Cuts Sky. These will not be removed by the company as they are ongoing.

You obviously have inside information. I am merely a poor customer who is expected to take what they are given, and accept that it can be taken away without being told the honest reason. I don't understand the difference between my NTL loyalty pack being a billing mistake and the new-style VM loyalty packs which are "ongoing."

I'm still waiting for you to post a break down of the discounts that you wre getting before. As if they were only under cutting Sky by 50p then its quite easy for themto change you to one of these deals.

I'm now getting the impressions that your just trolling or you were actually discounted upto the hilts and your not happy that they have now taken away some of these discounts.

I was not discounted up to the hilts as you put it. I am not happy because VM lied to me about their change of policy and tried to blame it on a billing mistake, which they have generously corrected without back-billing me!

Please prove me wrong by providing a actually break down of what services you've got and what you are paying.

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------



Well the fact that you were getting you broadband discounted and getting a loyalty packaged is wrong to start with. When VM put on a Loyalty discount all the discount is always applied to the Telco and TV bill.

Also no discount on the bbi is ongoing, the are normally for 3, 6 or 12 months. And some please correct me if I'm wround but noramlly show on the bill as for example Half Price BBI 3months.

nope you're wrong, there were no time limits, either orally or on my bills.

My contracted rate was £26.95 per month for BBL and a full phone pack.

NTL billed this as £25 for BB and £1.95 plus call charges for phone.

My phone bill showed LOYALTY PACK BB/ PHONE

VM followed this pattern until last week. (but they also upgraded my BBL to XL FOC as someone else pointed out earlier they offered to everyone at the time).

This week I received my BB bill for £37, so VM has not only reneged on the agreed rate but also killed the general XL for BB rebate.

I have not yet been told what VM plan to do with my phone charges.

I know what I plan to do.

[lostandconfused]

what was the loyalty pack called on your bill?
I wouldnt undestand what minimum services you needed to have by im sure akia and ben_mc would. It could have been that this was added on but you didnt have the minimum service to have that loyalty pack?

Ahh. I think I can explain whats happened. What was shown on your BBI bill. Did it say BBI L = £25 or BBI XL = £37 + Uprade offer = £-12 =£25

---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:30 ----------

There is two possible explainations which I'll give you both.

Looking at what you have listed it looks like you are on Ret deal 3 which basically includes the full phone and BBI Size M (2mb) for £19.95. Now with the BBI Size L (4mb) you would add on the diffrence in price. I.E. £7 making your total £26.95.

They will not have removed this offer and it is ongoing. This is a legitimate package that VM offer.

Now what I think has happened is

1: Someone has put the old BBI upgrade offer on your BBI giving you Size XL for the price of Size L. If this has happened then yes this would be removed because when you are on a retention deal you can't have any other offers.

2: You were being billed for the BBI Size L but was actually provisioned on the BBI Size XL, If this is the case they will have changed the billing to match the speed.

To correct both of these all you need to do is ring them and ask them to put you back on the BBI Size L instead of the BBI size XL which will make your bill £26.95 again. but you will only be on the 4mb till the upgrade to 10mb happens for you. Otherwise if your wanting to keep the BBI XL you'd have to pay the differance a extra £12.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Dunderhead

Yes but you also said:

Which is why I said that you claimed my loyalty pack was a billing mistake.


You obviously have inside information. I am merely a poor customer who is expected to take what they are given, and accept that it can be taken away without being told the honest reason. I don't understand the difference between my NTL loyalty pack being a billing mistake and the new-style VM loyalty packs which are "ongoing."


I was not discounted up to the hilts as you put it. I am not happy because VM lied to me about their change of policy and tried to blame it on a billing mistake, which they have generously corrected without back-billing me!

Now that you have discribed the offers that you are on its its quite clear that the retention deal you have is a offical one. Now just to clear this it up. The deal you have is a VM loyalty bundle not NTL, As I said above the problem appears to be with the BBI and your telco bill should arrive as normal because you've still got the loyalty package.

[busterdan]

I totally agree with Dunderhead... I am in almost exactly the same situation...

I received the letter... and now I have my bill showing that the BB L Upgrade Bonus has been removed.

Plus the bill has £4.50 bundled offers fee?

The other discount I was getting was a 3 for £xx price, in my case XL TV, Phone with weekend free 01/02/03 etc calls at weekends plus XL BB and a V+ box.

The Virgin service is pretty good generally although I have just done a speed test and only managed the following which is pathetic for a so call 20mb service..




I'm going to call retentions in a moment...

I am not sure what I will do if they don't budge..... I am not bothered at all about TV but the V+ box has been useful (if a little unreliable). The Sky HD box seems stupidly expensive... with a £250 up front purchase.

I do need a fairly quick broadband service... mainly upstream so I am tempted by Be There Pro... which for £22 is a bargain. Their service is excellent too, I use them at work. On top of this would be the £130 rip off fee to BT for a new line, plus the £10 or so rental a month. Even without the discounts Virgin doesn't seem so bad afterall.... I think I will down grade to L BB though as I have never acheived anywhere near 20mb.

[Dunderhead]

I think this is quite a common problem.

I am now quietly waiting to see if I get any responses from my letter to Trevor Elliott and my formal complaint to customer relations.

So far, nothing heard.

[busterdan]

OK I have just spoken to them...

As has been mentioned here, they said that there has been an audit... some discounts were incorrect, etc. etc...

I was given a couple of options...

XL TV
XL BB
XL Phone
for £56 (I dont really need all the free calls)

XL TV
L BB (upgrading to 10mb in one month - upload will go from 368kps to 512kps)
L Phone (free evenings and weekend calls to landlines - currently I have just weekend calls free)
for £43

Both prices include a V+ box, itemised billing and a £3 discount because the advisor made a mistake in the initial quote and said she would honour it. So normally the second package would be £46

But and it is quite a big but they now insist on a new 12 month contract, which I was wary of but I can't see me paying BT £130 for one of their lines.... with the combination of Sky and BT I would still be paying more than Virgin.

[Dunderhead]

Over two weeks have passed and no reply (or acknowledgement) from either Trevor Elliott or Customer Relations. Obviously VM don't give a stuff.

Time to move on to the next level.

[BenMcr]

Which would be what exactly?

Can I just query something. Earlier you posted:

My contracted rate was £26.95 per month for BBL and a full phone pack.

NTL billed this as £25 for BB and £1.95 plus call charges for phone.

My phone bill showed LOYALTY PACK BB/ PHONE

This is what you were offered by customer relations which is the official (and correct) price for those services

VM followed this pattern until last week. (but they also upgraded my BBL to XL FOC as someone else pointed out earlier they offered to everyone at the time).

Who offered the upgrade to BB XL FOC? How long after you got the £26.95 offer was this done? Because this certainly WASN'T offered to everyone, and certainly shouldn't have offered to anyone on a loyalty bundle (as they exclude ALL other discounts)

If you were on BB XL you should have been paying £37, before discounts, at all times (which is what everyone else does, no matter what their bundle costs). You have stated you were paying £25

What it sound like to me is you agreed one price with Customer Relations which was valid and correct, then someone else in error gave you BB XL for the BB L price either via an extra discount or by changing the speed but not the charge. It is this that has been corrected.

You will still be able to get BB L and full phone pack at £26.95 as originally agreed.

Originally Posted by Dunderhead

Over two weeks have passed and no reply (or acknowledgement) from either Trevor Elliott or Customer Relations. Obviously VM don't give a stuff.

Time to move on to the next level.

To what address did you write to?

I still don't see what you are expecting. Even if you can get Virgin to give you the price back, they would only do so to 12 months after the price started, after which it will go back up again (if you stay on BB XL)

There is a complaint form HERE if you wish to use it (which has a 48 hour response time)

Virgin use CISAS for as their independent complaint resolution service. Website is HERE. They however will require a deadlock letter from Virgin before they will take on any complaint

Ofcom would refer you back to CISAS

[MrB]

Does this issue only relate to former NTL discounts no longer applying or recent VM deals that have been struck please?

I don't know the ins and outs of VM policy as some including BenMCR seem to, but I do believe that if something is offered for one price it should be delivered for that price (for whatever period is agreed - if a minimum 12 month contract is applied, then one could expect that the deal lasts for that as a minimum period, though there has been mention of "for life" whatever that may mean?).

I have the situation where I have recently moved house and had VM installed on the basis of an agreed price - I have had all sorts of problems getting the install correct (discussed on various threads on here). I was offered a price (and confirmed in writing) but this was not applied to my account correctly. This included a loyalty discount but I think it must also have included some other form of discount (on the BB account as two separate bills) as I cannot see how the price I was offered could be arrived at otherwise (XL TV, XL Phone, L BB for £29).

Many thanks

MrB

Any deal that is offered will be honored for upto a year. They key to this is alway make sure that the advisor has left notes on your account or you get them to send you a email confirming this.

They only time they would not honor the deal is when the customer says they were offered the services at X price but there isn't any notes to back it up.

My advice to anyone thats offered a deal it to get the advisor to put the price, which level of service and the time frame on the notes, get them to read them back to you, or call back later that day to check. Then if you have any problems later down the line its all documented and easly sorted as theres no point going back to the advisor a month later and saying you offered me this as they won't remember.