Novel chemistry

[Theodoric]

According to a news item in today's Grauniad:

Technology is being developed . . . that can detect explosive substances such as nitrogen.

I must have missed that bit of chemical knowledge during my education.

[Cobbydaler]

Presumably they mean when incorporated in molecules such as TNT or the nitrates in fertiliser based explosives...

And you can make quite a nice bang with just ammonia water & iodine...

[Theodoric]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

Presumably they mean when incorporated in molecules such as TNT or the nitrates in fertiliser based explosives...

And you can make quite a nice bang with just ammonia water & iodine...

I'm sure they did, but I have a reputation to keep up for the thankless task of defending chemistry from stupid, careless reporters. Don't get me started on chemical-free food!

Originally Posted by Theodoric

According to a news item in today's Grauniad:

Technology is being developed . . . that can detect explosive substances such as nitrogen.

I must have missed that bit of chemical knowledge during my education.

I think George dubya Bush had one of those detectors and pointed it at a map of Iraq, failing to notice he was standing in a cloud of it!

[Matth]

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem99306.htm

Nitrogen bonds tend to mean a lot of energy released

[Theodoric]

Originally Posted by Matth

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem99306.htm

Nitrogen bonds tend to mean a lot of energy released

Indeed, but the nitrogen molecule is therefore at the bottom of a very deep energy well. You won't get much of a bang from it.

[Anonymouse]

Originally Posted by Theodoric

Indeed, but the nitrogen molecule is therefore at the bottom of a very deep energy well. You won't get much of a bang from it.

You will if you use nitrogen to create an unstable compound. Nitrogen iodide, for example, is so unstable that the energy imparted to it by a fly walking on it or a feather falling on it will be enough to explosively break the chemical bond. TNT is trinitrotoluene, i.e. a nitrogen compound. Suggest to a demolition expert that you can't get much of a bang out of nitrogen and he'll look at you as if you've gone strange.

An explosion is really an extremely fast flash of flame or, if you want to get more basic, the result of chemical bonds breaking rapidly - the more bonds break, the more of a bang you get. There are three triple nitrogen bonds in a molecule of TNT.

Then there's always nitroglycerine, and its military derivative C-4...the latter, however has a scent rather like marzipan (or so a work colleague, an ex-squaddie, tells me), so you don't need anything more sophisticated to detect it than a dog.

If, OTOH, you mean just the nitrogen molecule, that isn't explosive at all - it is in fact rather inert, because the two nitrogen atoms are bound together by a triple electron bond, i.e. 3 electron pairs. This is a covalent bond, and it's a very strong one a) because it's a triple bond, and b) the nitrogen atom is very small, thus the bonds are very short and therefore strong. Diamond is the hardest naturally-occurring substance for the same reason, i.e. very short, very strong covalent bonds between neighbouring carbon atoms.

And it's just as well nitrogen isn't explosive in itself, because it comprises about 78% of the Earth's atmosphere by volume - imagine all that gas exploding...

BTW, I thought "Grauniad" sounded suspiciously odd. I have a talent for spotting English words which have had their letters rearranged..."Guardian", for example. About the only thing I'd trust in that is the date.

hmm Nitrogen is very 'inert', it isn't nitrogens 'fault' it is used to fill gaps in so many explosives

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

There are three triple nitrogen bonds in a molecule of TNT.

There are?


NO2 =

No N-N triple bonds there :S

The reactivity is mainly owing to the formal charges especially the O- which is a good electron pair donor.

[Cobbydaler]

BTW, I thought "Grauniad" sounded suspiciously odd. I have a talent for spotting English words which have had their letters rearranged..."Guardian", for example. About the only thing I'd trust in that is the date.

'The Grauniad' is a well known replacement for 'The Guardian', due to its past propensity for poor proofreading...

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

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'The Grauniad' is a well known replacement for 'The Guardian', due to its past propensity for poor proofreading...

...and is used by Private Eye (to avoid lawsuits, presumably); also The Telavivagraph, Daily Sexpress, The Screws of the World, etc.

[Theodoric]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

You will if you use nitrogen to create an unstable compound. Nitrogen iodide, for example, is so unstable that the energy imparted to it by a fly walking on it or a feather falling on it will be enough to explosively break the chemical bond. TNT is trinitrotoluene, i.e. a nitrogen compound. Suggest to a demolition expert that you can't get much of a bang out of nitrogen and he'll look at you as if you've gone strange.
<Snip>

It's all boils down to a question of terminology. The Guardian article said, " . . .that can detect explosive substances such as nitrogen." Now I'm sure that this can mean all sorts of things to a scientifically ignorant, arts-degree-holding Guardian reporter, but to a chemist it can only mean one thing, nitrogen gas (or liquid or solid), which is definitely not explosive.

[Theodoric]

[QUOTE=Theodoric]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

You will if you use nitrogen to create an unstable compound. Nitrogen iodide, for example, is so unstable that the energy imparted to it by a fly walking on it or a feather falling on it will be enough to explosively break the chemical bond. TNT is trinitrotoluene, i.e. a nitrogen compound. Suggest to a demolition expert that you can't get much of a bang out of nitrogen and he'll look at you as if you've gone strange.
<Snip>

It's all boils down to a question of terminology. The Guardian article said, " . . .that can detect explosive substances such as nitrogen." Now I'm sure that this can mean all sorts of things to a scientifically ignorant, arts-degree-holding Guardian reporter, but to a chemist it can only mean one thing, nitrogen gas (or liquid or solid), which is definitely not explosive.

EDIT And by the same misguided Guardian reasoning, sodium is a totally harmless substance which produces no reaction when put in water; well, sodium chloride doesn't, does it.

[TheNorm]

Well, Theodoric, will you be writing a letter to the Guardian?

Or, should that be a letetr ot hte Grauniad?

[Theodoric]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Well, Theodoric, will you be writing a letter to the Guardian?

Or, should that be a letetr ot hte Grauniad?

I suppose I could sign it, Keith Flett.