Dark Matter - Science Buffs ATTTTENSHUN!

TheBlueRaja · 06-02-2006, 12:05

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4679220.stm

So we are starting to put some numbers together for Dark Matter and beginning to attempt to understand what this stuff is, given that after all it makes up 95% of the universe and holds Galaxies together.

But - although most Scientists agree that is does exist - am i the only one thinking Dark Matter seems about as hopeful as Intelligent Design?

Personally, i think we have the theory of Gravity wrong given that we are see unexplained deviations in Voyagers course, something isnt adding up.

Dont get me wrong, i dont have a clue as to what this is, but Dark Matter smells bad, real bad in my book.

Thoughts?

06-02-2006, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

Dont get me wrong, i dont have a clue as to what this is, but Dark Matter smells bad, real bad in my book.

I don't see it...

handyman · 06-02-2006, 12:14

I think we have much more to learn about physics and what things are made up of than we know already

danielf · 06-02-2006, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

Dont get me wrong, i dont have a clue as to what this is, but Dark Matter smells bad, real bad in my book.

Thoughts?

I agree, the brown stuff has a very unpleasant odour, particularly after a night in the pub...

homealone · 06-02-2006, 12:24

Some interesting reading here

http://higgs-gluon.com/

- note this is extremely theoretical, as the Higgs Bosun has never been detected, although the LHC at CERN has been designed to 'look' for it.

TheBlueRaja · 06-02-2006, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

Some interesting reading here

http://higgs-gluon.com/

- note this is extremely theoretical, as the Higgs Bosun has never been detected, although the LHC at CERN has been designed to 'look' for it.

Yeah, i forgot about Higgs - that is a definate candidate - its just there is zero proof of this particle.

Also, assuming this particle dosent "clump", which given that this is supposed to be a particle which excerts a force of attaction seems unlikely, (yet we havent to my knowledge ovserved any gravity based anamolies in Space apart from Black holes and Gravitational Lensing caused by Galaxies), this would infer a "background" gravity reading would it not as these particles should therefore be spread out throughout space?

homealone · 06-02-2006, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

Yeah, i forgot about Higgs - that is a definate candidate - its just there is zero proof of this particle.

Also, assuming this particle dosent "clump", which given that this is supposed to be a particle which excerts a force of attaction seems unlikely, (yet we havent to my knowledge ovserved any gravity based anamolies in Space apart from Black holes and Gravitational Lensing caused by Galaxies), this would infer a "background" gravity reading would it not as these particles should therefore be spread out throughout space?

Interesting one, as you say we have zero proof of the particle, but its properties are also theoretical. The apparent observation, from the BBC article, that dark matter has a 'temperature' 'warmer' than theorised shows we still have a lot to discover.

I tend to agree that gravity wholly or partly holds the key to this, but as such an incredibly weak force, it is difficult to observe any effects beyond the extremes of black holes, etc, that you mentioned.

- so even 'clumps' of particles may have gravitational effects that we cannot yet observe or measure???

Ramrod · 06-02-2006, 13:07

I was reading about dark matter this morning as well and I agree with you BR. But we have to remember that dark matter is a hypothesis that is still being tested. If it is a correct hypothesis then thats nice, but even if it's incorrect (and dark matter doesn't exist) it doesn't really matter because that hypothesis will then be replaced by a 'better' on on the road to understanding.

06-02-2006, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

I tend to agree that gravity wholly or partly holds the key to this, but as such an incredibly weak force, it is difficult to observe any effects beyond the extremes of black holes, etc, that you mentioned.

Take a large lump-hammer, hold it above your unshoed foot and let go.

Hey presto, easily observable effect of gravity...

marky · 06-02-2006, 13:19

Where dark matter comes from

homealone · 06-02-2006, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

I tend to agree that gravity wholly or partly holds the key to this, but as such an incredibly weak force, it is difficult to observe any effects beyond the extremes of black holes, etc, that you mentioned.

Take a large lump-hammer, hold it above your unshoed foot and let go.

Hey presto, easily observable effect of gravity...

but that only works with a mass the size of the Earth, and given that the Higgs Bosun is supposed to define the concept of mass, there are still more questions than answers.

- ouch, btw

06-02-2006, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

but that only works with a mass the size of the Earth, and given that the Higgs Bosun is supposed to define the concept of mass, there are still more questions than answers.

That's the problem I have with all these theoretical particles.

It seems they get invented to explain something we can't observe, or don't understand, and then the theoretical particle throws up even more unobservable and incomprehensible theories etc.

One day someone will come up with a theory of some anti-<whatever> particle that cancels out all these theoretical ones. Problem solved.

TheBlueRaja · 06-02-2006, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

but that only works with a mass the size of the Earth, and given that the Higgs Bosun is supposed to define the concept of mass, there are still more questions than answers.

- ouch, btw

No - you could do it on the moon as well, it would just take longer so you can enjoy the "moment" more.

Its better there too, because as everybody knows, In space nobody can hear you scream.

handyman · 06-02-2006, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

That's the problem I have with all these theoretical particles.

It seems they get invented to explain something we can't observe, or don't understand, and then the theoretical particle throws up even more unobservable and incomprehensible theories etc.

One day someone will come up with a theory of some anti-<whatever> particle that cancels out all these theoretical ones. Problem solved.

I don't have that problem. They know they have something missing from the equation as it does not add up. They are sure what the total is but need more time to find the parts.

Take a sponge cake.... you can see that there is certain ingredients that go into it but the size is bigger than those ingredients started off as so something else must be there. In this case its air but its not obvious from the start until you explore it.

homealone · 06-02-2006, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

That's the problem I have with all these theoretical particles.

It seems they get invented to explain something we can't observe, or don't understand, and then the theoretical particle throws up even more unobservable and incomprehensible theories etc.

One day someone will come up with a theory of some anti-<whatever> particle that cancels out all these theoretical ones. Problem solved.

It was hoped that string theory was going to be able to unify a lot of the theoretical particles, basically by describing a single state of matter, via which all others could be explained.

However there are now several versions of string theory, so go figure...

Having said that, I am looking forward to seeing if CERN can get anywhere in advancing our knowledge, with the LHC.

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

[quote=TheBlueRaja]

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

No - you could do it on the moon as well, it would just take longer so you can enjoy the "moment" more.

Its better there too, because as everybody knows, In space nobody can hear you scream.

- you'd get frostbite if you took your shoe off on the moon, as well