No analogue switch-off until equipment is 'affordable'

[Chris]

What a chicken and egg scenario this is. Lobby groups are warning the Government not to switch off analogue TV broadcasts until digital equipment becomes affordable, so that those on low incomes don't miss out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/3733514.stm

But the UK is, apparently, so far ahead of the game on digital take-up, that we suffer the lack of available equipment - and what is available, is available at a premium price.

So we don't go digital-only until equipment is affordable, and equipment won't be affordable until it becomes a commodity item, (i.e. everyone needs one and everyone's got one), and it won't be a commodity item until we go digital only ...

Several things I don't understand:

1. Why is *anybody* still selling 4:3 TVs in the UK?
2. Why is it so hard to stick a Freeview decoder into a TV set, thus turning it into an 'integrated' digital TV and ending the need for a Freeview STB?

I want to buy a new telly for the smaller space available in the corner of our new house, and I would love it to be a 21-inch-ish widescreen LCD with integrated digital terrestrial. But I'm not about to pay £1,000 for the privilege.

[Shaun]

I'd hardly call £49.99 for a STB a premium price. Saying that I guess if you're on a low income it could be more than you could afford.

On the note of your search for an LCD Chris, my other half just bought a 17" widescreen LCD TV (Samsung) for his office for ~£300 so they are coming down in price.

[Flubflow]

39.99 retail for an Audioline digital STB in ASDA. Not bad. (plus the cost of a new aerial probably).
Still expensive to kit out all the teles in your house though.

[Salu]

Originally Posted by Chris T

1. Why is *anybody* still selling 4:3 TVs in the UK?
2. Why is it so hard to stick a Freeview decoder into a TV set, thus turning it into an 'integrated' digital TV and ending the need for a Freeview STB?

Good points. 1) I would suggest it is because there is still a market. THere will be some folk who don't want these "new fangled tellies".

2) Incredibly obvious. I've often thought it myself. I can't see any useful arguement not to.

[altis]

Government view here (check out the Guide to Digital Television and Digital Switchover):
http://www.digitaltelevision.gov.uk/

Industry view here (heck out the DTB Publications/Books and Papers):
http://www.dtg.org.uk/

...and in particular this document which deals with the problem of 'digitising' the 30 odd million secondary TVs:
http://www.dtg.org.uk/publications/b...ution_v1-1.pdf

There are still too many things that are not right about 'digital television' for me to be convinced that it's a good thing.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by dellwear

I'd hardly call £49.99 for a STB a premium price. Saying that I guess if you're on a low income it could be more than you could afford.

On the note of your search for an LCD Chris, my other half just bought a 17" widescreen LCD TV (Samsung) for his office for ~£300 so they are coming down in price.

I think for a pensioner on a fixed income, £50 is still a bit steep. However my personal gripe with this not so much to do with Freeview STBs, which to be honest are little more than an 'intermediate' technology, but rather the cost of fully integrated digital TV.

We will not have truly converted from analogue to digital until the TV in the corner of your room picks up digital TV signals through its aerial in *exactly* the same way it currently does for analogue. Nobody would consider it acceptable to buy a new TV and then find they have to spend either £50 for an external tuner to pick up analogue signals or a premium of something like £200 for the 'luxury' of a built in analogue tuner. Yet for digital we are somehow expected to accept this.

And other things we used to take for granted remain completely impossible: the ability to watch one channel and tape another, for example, thanks to the complete absence of DVB-T enabled video recorders, DVD recorders or whatever.

As for the tellies you've spotted, I've seen a couple of nice 17" models myself, but TBH I'd like something a little bigger. And as usual, what is available comes with built in obsolesence - namely an analogue tuner.

[Damien]

What about old people with a old tv set picking up the BBC who may not have a clue

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Damien

What about old people with a old tv set picking up the BBC who may not have a clue

Absolutely. The only way get close to handling this is for all TVs sold in the UK from now on to be dual standard analogue/digital. Then when the switch-over occurs, there won't be a sudden problem with TVs that have years of life left in them being obsolete. For those with ancient TVs that they just won't get rid of, there needs to be a subsidy scheme to enable them to get a STB. Of course, none of this is going to happen and come 2012 a lot of confused OAPs are going to find they have no TV.

In my opinion, this 'analogue switch-off' is an example of something that sounded good in the meeting, but afterwards, everyone assumed someone else will be sorting it out.

From my point of view, there is no problem with the status quo, so long as I can still get Sky1 through my analogue STB, I'll be quite happy with the 4:3 ratio.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Damien

What about old people with a old tv set picking up the BBC who may not have a clue

Originally Posted by Chris T

Absolutely. The only way get close to handling this is for all TVs sold in the UK from now on to be dual standard analogue/digital. Then when the switch-over occurs, there won't be a sudden problem with TVs that have years of life left in them being obsolete. For those with ancient TVs that they just won't get rid of, there needs to be a subsidy scheme to enable them to get a STB. Of course, none of this is going to happen and come 2012 a lot of confused OAPs are going to find they have no TV.

I sympathise with all those old people who may not have a clue and all those confused OAP's. I also sympathise with all those young people who may not have a clue and the confused young ones that find they have no TV. Wherever did you get the idea that getting old suddenly means that you lose most of your brain and don't know what you are doing? I would say that anyone thinking along those lines is very confused and doesn't have a clue about life.

If you can remember the days when all TV channels were broadcast in VHF you will know how the progression to UHF went. It wasn't the end of the world!

Maybe the move to all digital could be the time when the TV licence was scrapped, giving most people the extra cash to convert to digital.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I sympathise with all those old people who may not have a clue and all those confused OAP's. I also sympathise with all those young people who may not have a clue and the confused young ones that find they have no TV. Wherever did you get the idea that getting old suddenly means that you lose most of your brain and don't know what you are doing? I would say that anyone thinking along those lines is very confused and doesn't have a clue about life.

If you can remember the days when all TV channels were broadcast in VHF you will know how the progression to UHF went. It wasn't the end of the world!

Maybe the move to all digital could be the time when the TV licence was scrapped, giving most people the extra cash to convert to digital.

I must admit I was a little surprised at the OAP comments too, my grandparents (65 and 66) were the first to have freeview in our family!

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by dellwear

I must admit I was a little surprised at the OAP comments too, my grandparents (65 and 66) were the first to have freeview in our family!

Come 2006 it will be illegal too.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Come 2006 it will be illegal too.

What Grandparents?

[ntl customer]

Call me old fashioned, but I've never been a fan of this new fangled digital technology.

I've always found that digital terrestrial technology is far from robust to be made mainstream. Whenever a flourescent light is switched on, the boiler switches between hot water/heating mode or the compressor in the fridge starts working the picture and sound on certain channels always goes 'splat' - it is really annoying.

I'm sure you've read of my nightmare experiences with the ntl STB software in the other forum.

The sound quality on DAB is far from good. It might be OK for a one-weedy-speaker kitchen portable but on anything else, the over compression really shows up. Nothing beats good old FM reception IMO, provided you have a decent aerial and don't live in the shadow of a big building.

I've also never seen the point of widescreen either on certain programmes such as the news, where most international source material is 4:3. I want to see the pictures as they were intended - rather than in BBC hack-off-the-top-and-bottom-to-make-it-look-widescreen-when-it-is-not mode.

A thing I've noticed often is that stuff on digital is over compressed, thus making the picture and sound quality at times inferior to analogue TV. I think rather than trying to cram on as much as possible they should focus more on quality.

I think the government, rather than forcing digital onto us wanting to switch it off by a fixed date, perhaps should allow the technology to become more mature and robust before any firm dates are confirmed.

Some people think that Digital is a step forward, but due to the way the technology has been implemented and deployed has been a step backward in some ways when it comes to its robustness, stability and quality.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by dellwear

What Grandparents?

Age Descrimination